On Religion - Faith, Hope and Carnage | Nick Cave & Seán O’Hagan
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- Опубликовано: 8 ноя 2022
- Faith, Hope and Carnage, the new book and Sunday Times Bestseller from Nick Cave & Seán O’Hagan, is out now: linktr.ee/FaithHopeCarnage
Recorded at St James Church, Piccadilly, London
DP Suki Mok
One of a series of seven films recorded at St James Church, Piccadilly, London
Faith, Hope and Carnage is an extended conversation between Nick Cave and journalist, Seán O’Hagan, who have known one another for thirty years. Created from over forty hours of intimate recordings, the book examines questions of faith, art, music, freedom, grief and love. It draws candidly on Cave’s life, from his early childhood to the present day, his loves and his dramatic transformation in recent years.
‘Astonishing…exquisite.’ Observer
‘An all-time literary masterpiece.’ The Australian
‘A gift to the reader.’ The Sunday Times
‘Endlessly enriching’ The Guardian
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Listen to Lovely Creatures: The Best of Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds here: ncandtbs.lnk.to/LovelyCreatur...
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#NickCave #FaithHopeCarnage 
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I'm a praying agnostic. The one thing that I know is true is that prayer works, for whatever reason, so I do it. Prayer gives "some kind of solace," as Nick Cave says, and that's good enough for me.
who do you pray to?
@@annbiery1583 - “the close and holy darkness” Dylan Thomas
Nick Christ bless U I always loved your voice and songs you are such amazing person Christ is the absolute truth Christ said I’m the Way and the truth and the life he is not one of the ways He is the way and the truth and the life keep on going with Christ
Nick is one of those (a very few) men who I can imagine to talk with about things like this. I'd love to one day, really. For now I'm sending a kiss by an airline... Thanks God for your existence, man. Cheers from Bohemian land.🌹
Was having a rough morning and when I turned on the TV this was uploaded only a minute. Much needed! Been reading this book and I love it. Thank you for your art! It’s all very inspiring and healing in so many ways to me. 🖤
As Matt Johnson said, Love is Stronger Than Death
He is so graceful
Nick Cave god like genius And a true maverick boom boom boom
God doesn’t want something from us . He simply wants us.
CSL
Just finished the book, bigger fan now than before because I feel like I know Nick Cave a little better than before. He was kinda apprehensive about doing the book, but I'm glad he did & I'm sure a lot of other people are as well.
Nick Cave is a man of God. Probably.
Enjoyed this ❤️
Christ is the middle of Life, Creation, Music, Poetry ( yes there much poetry in the bible) when Jesus was on earth in Israel and was living among his friends/disciples in matthew gospel 16 vers 15: He asked: who do you say am? Simon Peter answered: You are the Messiah The Son of the Living God. I love your music and the grieve in the music lost of your son...My wife has chronicle lyme disease...so we have no children...but also grieve about this losses in life..my wife does read the Bible and take and poured a lot of hope and comfort...about living God and questions are around the corner but we pray it's difficult how life is is happening to every human being and also church members. God bless from the netherlands
Wise words.
Hear, hear!
Grief is an day to day struggle with emotional pain .
So cool
Grief is a powerful emotion, a painful one. Trying to quell hurt can be very difficult, with that in mind I can see why people turn to religion.
Lovely and articulate on a subject that usually isn't.
I as a non-believer and one who has gone through much loss, can see where he is coming from. I personally would not use religion as a tool to bring myself solace knowing how much the opposite religion has brought the world. The personal space of using "faith" to heal, however, is quite understandable. I have not lost children, however, so my loss cannot compare.
Agreed. Religion, spirituality, therapy, or meditation. They can all be healing when used correctly. Different people are going to heal in different ways.
It's much healthier than drugs, alcohol or forcing your pain upon others.
@Marijan Mileta please prove that God or gods exist first!
@Marijan Mileta so your answer is the Bible says/ believers say therefore it's true.
You can not use the bible to prove the bible.
If you could you could use Harry Potter to prove wizards!
People invented god and gods for their own requirements, to put meaning into the meaningless.
To claim knowledge rather than accept not everything can be known at least at the moment.
I understand making up a story to make sense of what we don't understand but that is something to tell children not something to increasing reality and rationalism.
Please provide proof of "bad energy" please provide proof of God's existence without using the bible or religious beliefs.
God created us imperfect and commands us to be perfect.
That's not a good caring parent but a controlling, narcissistic, monster
@Marijan Mileta Proof or evidence for what you say.
Not just opinion from yourself or others.
You are using your personal belief your personal opinion and the personal opinion of others to offer as proof.
That is not proof other than of what you believe.
@Marijan Mileta firstly I've read the Bible from cover to cover I think 4 times.
I've read the Koran, or a translation of it, the tipitaka, the Vedas, the Talmud, the Sikh holy book the name of escapes me off the top of my head, the book of Shadows,the Dao de Jing, the satanic bible and others I can't remember names of.
I've been to church, mosques, temples, I've done religious studies, retreats. I did alpha 3 times.
None of what your are saying or claiming is new to me.
The claims for "miracles" need proof and evidence for them as they are such extraordinary claims, there is no evidence or proof for those claims except in the explanations from religious beliefs.
Prove that Christ the son of God and, God himself, existed or that he was the son of God, or God himself,.
Your personal claims are not valid as they can not be verified.
The claims of others either made in writing or spoken form can be verified and so are unreliable.
Either there is proof and or evidence or there isn't.
Proof and evidence needs to be verified and verifiable.
What Nick Cave says about religion isn't of importance as it is personal testimony.
It comes in part from him losing his son in such a dreadful way.
There is no getting to light there is only existing in reality.
Reality is a savage, meaningless, vital, brutal, wonderful scary thing, I understand wanting to blind yourself by following a mythology but that doesn't make it true.
I have a pixie which lives in my ear and tells me how to live my life!
Do you believe me?
That's exactly the same as your God belief and your claims for God knowledge.
It's never too late to free yourself from the chains of faith and live an honest and authentic life without superstition
He’s a relic from the 90s, a time when individual freedom of thought and being was prized above all else, not the group think of today. I treasure these people.
It’s just Rock and Roll
True. But rock n roll is so much more than we can even begin to comprehend. It’s so much more. It’s so deep. So much more.
@@richiewilliams6875thank you brother. The power of rock n roll. Feel it. It’s too much.
The crystal ballroom in Melbourne 1979, wild and important
If something was missing Nick Cave to achieve perfection, it is being a confessed believer.
It is consistent, since his music is on a very high spiritual plane.
Just pple in rebellion who can’t quite let go of their rebellion, even though God is clearly speaking to them
Daily Bread - April 24, 2023 (The Second Day - Genesis 1:6-8)
Ephesians 1:18 - ...the eyes of your understanding being enlightened to know the confidence of His calling, and what is the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the holy ones.
Great Confidence & Calling
We should have great confidence in the promises of God and the calling of God upon our lives. We have been called to walk in oneness with God. We have been called to not only have the ministry of Jesus, but a greater works ministry (John 14:12). We are the temples of the Holy Spirit, who have been given the fullness of the Spirit by baptism into His presence (1 Corinthians 3:16, 6:19-20; 2 Corinthians 6:16-18).
God has granted to us the ability to comprehend the marvelous world of the heavenly so we can begin to take our place in this divine inheritance. When we were dead in our trespasses and sins, our hearts were darkened, and we were alienated from this life we now live in God. Now, because the light of the Gospel has shined into our hearts, we have the ability to comprehend union with God - and live in such a relationship that whatever we ask, Father will do it (John 15:16; 1 John 3:21-22).
Blessings,
Pastor Mark Spitsbergen
Death is not the end it’s the beginning of life with christ to be with Christ is better you should wish the best for the people and that is to be with God , even if we miss them but to be in God arms is the death for a believer is victory
His Bible reading showed in his lyrics even 30 years ago and the book the ass saw the angel.
I appreciate the sentiment. However, we can know with certainty (without recourse to any faith-based beliefs whatsoever) that the one true God (i.e., the God of Classical Theism, aka Monotheism) exists and is infinite in every pure perfection. When, after 25 years of Atheism, I discovered that I am not God, but rather that God was God (sorry for the spoilers), I reluctantly took the leap of faith into Christianity (despite being an anti-Catholic anti-Christian.) God is good. God alone. ♥
Amen❤️
It's interesting that God is understood by Cave as a secondary notion and a minor detail, in comparison to the utility of religion. Because this is very much aligned with what atheism and secularism suggests. Religion's utility, insofar as it fosters a space for community, shared experience with others, initiation, ritual, solidarity, peace, and musical and architectural beauty, is certainly valuable. But where it fosters belief that is disproportionate to evidence, hatred or mistrust of non-believers, and belief in infallible scripture, is precisely where lies the problem. Cave, like many others, is making that distinction here. Unfortunately, too far too many do not.
I appreciate Nick noting that he is in some way using religion to deal with the experience of loss. I do not know to what extent he is faithful to religion, and after crossing a very thin line, i.e. trusting the Bible (even reading its metaphors), apart from consolation, we are left with a whole package of additional problems that can hurt not only ourselves but also others. For me, and for everyone, I believe that the positive things that religion offers us, in this case Christianity, are disproportionate to the negative. But I have experienced these negative things from religion many times from others, so that also adds up to my point of view
what negative things? Christ is the arbiter of peace. If somebody was unkind to you or wicked, they weren't following Christ.
Somebody famous said something along the lines of “I like Christ, I don’t care for His Christians”
Christian churches as far as the Christian understanding goes is where bad people go to congregate, with a desire to be forgiven and change their ways. Everyone in every church is a sinner, and that entails certain poor characteristics with each individual.
I’d implore you not to gauge Jesus by His followers, judge Him by what He’s said.
God bless, I hope and pray that God would heal the hurts in your life.
Where is the full interview?
Some people are "struggling" just to keep up with everyone else, happy to follow "John" and never "understand" religion and wonder if it exist, is it more than one and is it plausible? And what else is there?
Nick Cave the musician. And theologian?
A person.
To some extent everybody is...
Paraphrasing a line from this book: "Is it rational to abandon something that helps you but is irrational in its core."
Cave found a comfort in religion, in its rituals. He speaks about utility of religion. It's ability to get us through hard times even when you don't believe in God.
Religion can never get you out of that darkness, the only one that can get you out of it is Jesus
Did the talk only 4 mins?
Daily Bread - April 22, 2023 (The Seventh Day - Genesis 2:1-3)
Ephesians 1:18 - ...the eyes of your understanding being enlightened to know the confidence of His calling, and what is the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the holy ones.
The Glory Of His Inheritance
The “eyes of our heart” are the spiritual sensory realm. If we are to understand things that far surpass the natural sensory realm, then we are going to have to be given a divine ability to perceive the imperceptible. We are to have a confidence that is communicated to us by the Word of God and taught to us by the Spirit of God. We are supposed to know a love that passes knowledge, so our hearts must be given the ability to understand things our natural senses cannot perceive and the human experience cannot teach.
Therefore, our Heavenly Father, in His grace, has granted to us a divine ability to interact with the Holy Spirit and to understand the heavenly plan. He has empowered us with the ability to go beyond the confines of an earthly realm to live out our lives in the Spirit and be taught His ways. We now have the provision to perceive things that cannot be seen with the natural eye - those things that before had never entered into the hearts of men (1 Corinthians 2:9-16). Through the illumination that comes by the Spirit of wisdom and revelation, we are able to understand the greatness of our calling and the glory of His inheritance provided for us in Christ Jesus (Ephesians 1:3, 17-23).
Blessings,
Pastor Mark Spitsbergen
Listen to Terence McKenna on science 😅
What do you mean? How is that related to this?
@Nick Cave Music 🎶 Whya re you pretending to be Nick Cave?
My own view is that atheism is as far from a "firm position on things" as you can get. It stands against the assumed and asserted certainties of religion, which often proclaims itself the "one, true way"..and that's all atheism is. It's the affirmation of doubt.
This beautiful short conversation touched many strings in me. I'm still digesting. First of all, I am puzzled by the claim that belief in God is something secondary and a minor detail. For me, religion is rituals, good deeds, and don't get me wrong, that has value too. But this value is not a value in itself, it is a secondary detail in relation to faith, because it flows from faith. It's a bit like cause and effect, if you believe, it will always result in actions (the smell of a dog :) )However, only the one we believe in knows our faith.
Very Dostoevskian
Spirituality is different from religion... more people should try to explore their connection to the world rather than being dogmatic.
I've been mulling over this since it was uploaded.
I find it a great shame when anyone gives in to superstition and make believe to make sense of loss and heartbreak.
I can only imagine what it must be like to lose a child and, in Nick's case, such a young child.
The utter devastation must be so absolutely complete and consuming.
I can understand why someone would give in to such a belief for solace but that doesn't mean it's real or true.
Seeking answers to unanswerable questions doesn't mean you just accept mythology.
Would people be praising Nick if he had come out as now believing in pixies?
I think it's such a loss to reality and rationalism to turn to mythology as a reality rather than facing up to the reality of life being a brutal, heartbreaking, wonderful, confusing, meaningless, vital, indifferent experience.
I have struggled with mental health since a very early age.
My mental health is a very precarious thing.
I have the condition Borderline personality disorder as well as clinical depression and anxiety.
I have missed out on an awful lot of life/ life experiences because of my mental health. That gets more difficult to cope with as I age but at no time have I considered mythology as a way to cope.
Facing the harsh reality of life is the only way to stay authentic.
My dad died earlier this year and my mum has been in increasingly poor health since the 80's.
She has MS, since the 80's and has dementia and is virtually blind.
She believes in the Christian God and is constantly invoking him to help her.
It hasn't entered my mind for a moment, during dad's death and mum's ill health or my own mental health problems, that turning to the invisible and absent god to help/ support would be anything other than a futile act of surrender to "make believe."
The reality we all have to face is that life can end in a moment.
Some times at a time when someone has only lived a few years some times when someone has lived for 80+ years.
That brutal fact should never be a reason to turn to make believe "answers" and should always lead to the obvious, make life count here and now. Embrace life to be a complete human.
Succumbing to make believe will shut down the reality of life and close down the possibility of a greater understanding of self.
What a sad day when someone is lost to make believe.
The thing is you can't disprove the existence of God, Jesus Christ's divinity. Meanwhile Christ's existence and influence has kept human spirits going, rising, transcending, breaking free for over 2000 years.
What are the fruits of atheism? On a purely materialist level even then you could say Pascal's wager is the most optimal choice for any person, choosing to place your faith in Christ for salvation. If he is true and you are saved by Christ in death, you made a good decision. If it isn't true and there is nothing after death, you lose nothing.
Regardless, I think it all boils down to personal spiritual experiences. I was a non-believer and scoffer for most of my life, but personal spiritual experiences lead me to Christ. After realizing my faith in Christ it became apparent that I was being foolish. I was acting like an expert on spiritual experiences even though I hadn't had any yet, and was scoffing at those who claim to have had spiritual experiences that lead them to Christ. I felt like an idiot for being so dismissive.
So I guess just seek Christ, seek the spiritual experience, because spiritual experiences are why people believe in him. If you haven't had any spiritual experiences yet, don't act like an expert on spiritual experiences and don't scoff at those who have had them.
@@nicknickson3650 absolutely true but because we don't know, doesn't mean we believe in something which is also unprovable and based on much older stories.
Morality comes from being a social ape.
We understand, if we are personally hurt by someone else what that feels like. Whether it's a physical or emotional hurt we understand if what we feel is painful to us that must be what it feels like to someone else.
If I am punched I know it will hurt, cause pain, possible bleeding, a recovery time. If that's what it is for me to experience pain then that is what it must be for you (anyone) to feel pain.
For me to feel pain isnt enjoyable and so for you to feel pain would also not be enjoyable.
Morality is born. Morality is understood through nature, nurture and reason.
I would rather know the truth of life than put a mythology into place to make sense of things we either don't know or don't know yet.
The reason is truth.
There is no empirical evidence for any God/ gods.
There is no evidence for God(s) existence before humans existed.
There is evidence that humans have believed in many gods over our history, most of which we have abandoned as we find the answers to previously unknown subjects.
Zeus creating and sending down lightning bolts is no longer believed. We have an understanding of how lightning forms. It isn't by Zeus!
Atheism doesn't make a claim for anything except that atheists don't see any/ or enough evidence of a god existing.
Atheism isn't a moral system, it isn't a belief system. For that you'd be looking at a more Humanistic approach. Why is humanism the better approach! Because if I punch you I know you will feel pain because if you punch me I feel pain.
Empathy explains morality.
The religious experience people report can be experienced by people going through mental health crisis, drug use, can be produced in the lab using the technique I can't remember the name of off the top of my head but electro stimulation rings a bell.
These things suggest religious experience is something created in the brain and not outside the brain as an independent "real" force.
Religion and belief has and does create hugh conflict around the world with the different interpretations of each faith and between the different sects within faiths.
Religious people are constantly making declarations on how people should or shouldn't live, love, worship, etc.
A little while back in time expressing no belief in a god would have meant persecution, ridicule and possibly death.
In some countries it is still against the law to not believe. In other countries and cultures it is frowned upon to not believe or to have a different faith.
I wonder what country you come from?
I wonder if you live in the west you realise you are more likely to be Christian whereas if you lived in the middle East you would be more likely to be a Muslim.
How many of the thousands of gods humans have believed in through our history, do you believe in?
If it is only one then you have rejected the evidence for all other gods except the one you believe in you are almost an atheist.
It's very interesting how religious people often assume atheists haven't already looked into religion and seem to think suggesting doing so would be helpful.
It seems to me that I, at least, have thought about, talked about, read about, researched about more religion and religions than most religious people.
Most religious people seem to stick with the main religion of the country/ culture they are first exposed to.
I have been to churches mosques temples etc.
I have done alpha, I have read all the major religious books.
I've been to religious retreats, I have been open to more ideas and philosophical thought than you could know and I find it condensing that you assume I haven't done the searching for answers thing!
As a believer in Christ how do you feel about the Bible's more repulsive attitudes?
Slavery is sanctioned in the bible. Women are treated as chattel, rape is used as a punishment or threat of punishment, people use the bible to sanction hate and abuse of homosexual people, it uses concepts of witchcraft as a real tangible thing.
Just these few examples show the bible and the god/ son of God/ Jesus character as an absolute corruption of a life/ thought/ idea.
I understand why humans seek out a deity to try to make sense of life and fill the dark broken parts of ourselves. But that doesn't make it real or true.
Believing in mythology makes us weak and beholden to imagined reality.
Having a set amount of rules of how the world works, based on belief doesn't allow for you to be wrong.
What would convince you that there is no god/ Jesus?
In the biblical stories we are created ill and commanded to be well.
As the old testament became outdated people rewrote the stories and added the new testament to make the faith more palatable for a more enlightened age although it was still an utterly unenlightened age all the same.
Ultimately all any of us can truly be is agnostic but we call ourselves Christian/ Muslim/ Hindu/ Buddhist/ Satanist/ atheist as a way of identifying with others and creating our own identity.
I see no evidence for a diety/ I see no proof of the magical claims of Christianity or Christ's "miracles" I see a beautiful, empty, horrifying, meaningless, magical world of possibilities based on reality not mythology
I sincerely hope the truth finds you dear Herbie.
@@cassandraburton6132 what do you mean as "truth?"
You know what? His music is boring, mostly one-dimensional stuff, with the exception of few songs. Listening to him convinced me that he really has nothing to say beside obvious things any inteligent person will come up with growing up. Or maybe questions are wrong...
Boring for you, but he has gathered a massive following of people who love his music. I find tons of bands awful and boring, but it doesn't mean it doesn't click for some people. Nick Cave's music however really resonates with me.