Two other things I hate: 1) Too much banter and talking between songs, and 2) Dead air. The band takes too long to start the next song. Either they don't know what they're going to play (no set list), they're busy chatting amongst themselves, or someone isn't ready for the next tune and the band has to wait for them. And there's no one on mic covering that space. I hate it from both sides, as an audience attendee AND as a band member!
Many people go to live music as social events and dont care about the actual music at all, they are drag alongs or want to meet people, hang w friends, just something to do. Most dont care that much about the actual music tho they pretend to. That is ok. Whole music scenes and successful bands exist because of the social aspects of shows rather than the actual music. If ppl could not talk whole bands and scenes would fail to draw. Also many genres are improv based w no setlist and the audience wants that. One example of a scene that is both pro socializing and improv is certain jambands, jazz, improv music etc. Wives and girlfriends especially do not want to be dead silent when dragged to those things or other such genres they do not enjoy but will go to w their bf or spouse. Music is not all about music. Not at all!
Those are two good ones to add and should be highly considered as much as the five on this list. Dead air is a straight up killer - kills the mood of the audience, makes the band feel anxious and look sloppy/unprofessional.
@@kdub607 Not every show or band has to be some slick predictable production, and I think that even kills the spontaneity and surprise and suspense of live music. Breaks and lulls are good to allow people to talk and get a break on their ears. Again it is not really about the music for I would say at least half the audience at any show. Many are there for the people and socializing more than sitting being played to non stop, not being able to talk from constant music. Breaks are good. Loose and unpredictable is good. No set list is good. Not to the point of sloppy drunk dive bar bands that suck, but those types of bands suck even if they had a tight set with no lulls. Not everyone is at the edge of their seat wanting to hear constant music and not being able to talk. Actually music was more fun when it was like that. I think that tight slick productions killed live music for many. Think of the 60s and 70s where most everything was way more loose. That era and music and the live shows are classic and often legendary, regardless of lulls or no set list. The rise of slick productions I think took the soul out of live music.
@@RocknJazzer I get what you're saying, and we're not talking about a moment of a break between a song here and there. Dead air is when everyone on stage is standing around not knowing what to do or what the next song is. Dead air is when that happens and the front line isn't doing anything to engage or talk/joke with the audience to keep them connected. I've seen it many times, I've even experienced it within my band or others that I've sat in with. My band has been known as a top dance band - we are hired because the events want their audience to be on the floor as much as possible. Our formula has been tried and true for us - we have a tight flow that rivals any DJ (to point number 4 of whether they should have hired a DJ). We still break if transitioning to let's say a ballad, but there's little dead air. The front line will engage, doing the usual - "How are you enjoying yourselves? What birthdays do we have/zodiac month?" Things that keep a connection to your audience. If you're referring to clubs/bars/restaurants, that's a different venue with a different approach. Some of those places only have an entertainment license, but no dance license for example - so yeah breaking between more songs is acceptable. It depends on the venue, the audience, and the type of show you were hired to present/perform.
@@kdub607 Yes I understand, that seems to be the modern pro working band protocol, but other genres and genres have different standards and protocols that does without much of that, more relaxed, more akin to the days of the golden classic rock era late 60s thru late 70s, where things were looser and people were there more for the party, the hang, the drugs, the people...ie a less commercial approach where it didnt matter much or as much, which I prefer. But if thats not your bands thing then of course do what is best. I'm just saying this guys video is not differentiating, he is painting with a wide one size fits all brush. Many styles dont want a slick approach, they shun it for a more loose informal presentation. I prefer that because it feels less like a product or being marketed to, and more like art at a social gathering rather than a slick product. Concerts of decades past and in smaller genres were more fun and no one complained. I think we need to get back to that more today.
My biggest pet peeve is, "How's everyone doing tonight?" "I can't hear you. I said how's everyone DOING TONIGHT??” It just feels so cheap and forced every time I hear it.
Thank you. I usually fast forward videos until it looks like the person is getting to 😮the point. Long introductions and blah blah. All that crap decreases the possibility that I will even watch the full video. Then, if I like it enough, I will let you know and possibly subscribe. I like videos that get to the point and are actually related to the title.
Thank you. I usually fast forward videos until it looks like the person is getting to 😮the point. Long introductions and blah blah. All that crap decreases the possibility that I will even watch the full video. Then, if I like it enough, I will let you know and possibly subscribe. I like videos that get to the point and are actually related to the title.
I'm good with solos being slightly on the longer side but when it goes out into the weeds and I don't even know what's being played anymore, I find it unsettling and uncomfortable. Yeah, take it out in the weeds for a bit, but don't forget to bring it back home again. Home is nice. We like home. We like the familiar. You wanna play your own originals, great, but don't call it Sweet Georgia Brown if no one would ever recognize that's the song you've been playing for the last 8 minutes. (I play jazz piano.)
Kind of depends on the artist too. A friend saw Joe Satriani a decade or so ago. Mind boggling how effortlessly Joe can play anything. But after a while it was like one long guitar solo. Some loved it, that's what the paid to see, others grew weary of it.
@@AnthonySforzaI've seen more than one band state (in concert) that the quickest way to send the audience to the restroom or concession stands is to play a track off their new/upcoming album. TBF, though, when is a band supposed to play new material? A point of touring is to promote new material.
That comes back to point #1 audiences don't like original music unless it sounds something they've heard before. Originality is out of fashion. Conformity is in.
@@AlmostEthical Sounds like the musician's Kobayashi Maru. If they continue to sound how they've always sounded, listeners will criticize them for not growing musically and being boring; if they try to expand their horizons, listeners will accuse them of getting away from their roots/what made them famous.🤷♂️
Although that's true, it's also true that you still have to connect with your audience, whatever that means. Musicians also have to also admit that just because a musician might like something, that doesn't mean that the audience will like it.
@@Traumglanz - I hate to break it to you , but I don’t think they’re referencing Flamenco when they talk about “dance music.” While not really my thing, I definitely appreciate the talent and quality of that particular genre.
Video should be titled 'Five Things CASUAL Audiences Hate'. Or maybe 'Bar/Club Audiences'. Because not a single one of these, except for maybe the first one, applies to a rock venue/concert.
Yeah it really depends on the setting. I play a gig every Friday at a lodge in Seattle where I play acoustic/jazz instrumentals and I loop and solo/improvise for literally 3 hours and they love it. I make excellent tips and the first time I played there it went well enough that they offered me a residency. It wouldn't work everywhere but for this environment it's perfect
I will respectfully disagree. I play with a rock / jam band that plays mostly original music. We play a lot of festivals, and even in the jam band scene, where the audiences are perpetually stoned, solid tend to run very long, and not say bet much. Even outside of the festival scene, I play a lot of venues that tends towards original music and we hear band that are too loud when running their own sound. Even original bands don't always understand how to read a room, and play songs that don't work.
@@SeanEverettHuntTbf, being too loud is also applicable to original scenes. I like loud, Im a Rocker but even Ive been made feel nauseated simply by volume. Playing with overly long solos can and do apply to any musical setting. In fact, many musicians will be turned away for excessive noodling! This is any live music. Also imagine you’re an original band, you’re playing too many fast or slow songs in one big chunk. If people are to remember your set for the RIGHT reasons, you have got to be able to entertain and keep the audience captivated which you s what this video is also saying. The DJ could definitely also be a better option to your band regardless of cover or original bands.
My problem with volume often comes down to the low bass frequencies overpowering the live mix and not enough midrange and high end coming through. I don’t know if it’s a local thing, but sound men are addicted to the low end in too many bands. Adding excessive overall volume only makes it worse.
No sound men in most bars in my area. Guitar players use too much bass when playing live. You have to EQ the amp differently when playing at home and playing live. Guitar is a midrange frequency instrument, the bass should take care of the low end of the frequency spectrum.
"if it hasn't got a pulse it's, well, not alive"- Mark Craney (drummed with Tommy Bolin, Jean-Luc Ponty, Jethro Tull, Gino Vannelli, Tower of Power, and others). Eberhard Weber and Allan Holdsworth will have me dancing in my seat, also Ravi Shankar...
@@callmeal3017I’m neurodivergent af and dancing/singing just feels alien and gross even despite the fact that I’m a musician. On top of that, idk how to effectively dance to ambient music for example lmao, sometimes I just wanna chill and either zone out or appreciate the audio introspectively
You missed : well known bands playing their hits too fast and : well known bands , having played their hits 6,000 times before on a live stage, changing melody lines and improvising out of boredom. Audiences don't want that.
Sometimes it's boredom, but there's other reasons too: - that melody was always improvised, and recording it didn't change that. - a change might be done, as an improvement, songs often evolve quite a lot before it gets recorded, and sometimes that keeps happening after recording. Maybe on the recording some part is very hard or straining to play, or the band hates how it sounds. - it's done to keep the performance unique, so it's not just the same show for literally everybody forever. Making the experience more special. But I also very often get disappointed at the changes when I'm in the audience. But sometimes that type of stuff is one of the reasons why some people prefer the live versions.
Obviously you were not around during the late 60's / 70's or attending gigs by bands like the Grateful Dead where the whole point of going to a gig was seeing the bands improvise , alter , change and radically restate the songs as heard on the albums . What was the point of paying money to hear the exact , same version you heard on record ? ln those days the music was an uncharted territory that many bands took advantage of and the songs as a result were changed drastically . Now it's play your well known songs by numbers and perform them just like they are on the LP or CD .....Boring and predictable . Jams and improvised music can be formless and boring but on a good night when the ideas and inspiration are flowing they can be mind blowing .
I’m so glad that you’re posting these tidbits of wisdom. Over 35 years in the biz and a lot of hard knocks learning these same exact lessons. Hope the younger cats put some serious thought into what you’re sharing with them. Keep up the good work!!!
Hate is a strong word. People just get bored or feel awkward dancing and the groove is dying. People usually walk away cuz of boredom or discomfort rather than having any strong opinion about the music. Also repeating “hate” and “irritating” could easily have synonyms instead and not cause me to be bored of this video and walk out cuz 🤷🏻♀️ not cuz i hate it
the number of times I've seen a drummer keep time through a solo, then do the fill to go back into the verse.... then do the fill to go back into the verse... roll their eyes, do the fill to go back into the verse...
@@amgerth Blues rock is still keeping the solos alive too, even long ones. Ally Venable is my current favorite. I’ve been watching the Band Maid with The Warning video but have not explored Band Maid further. I’m a fan of The Warning and they have the occasional solo but many songs do not have solos.
Omg, people, Japanese rock & metal is just incredible. Put anything from US/UK aside and seek out Jap bands. Lovebites, Band Maid (of course) and my favorite- Ningen Isu!!. Fearless solos.
Seen Peter Frampton a few years back and he and his guitarist got into this endless guitar solo duel and it was fun for a bit, then got extremely tedious. I'm a guitar player and I could not wait for it to be over and up to the point of the endless solos, I was LOVING the show.
TOO LOUD!!!! Followed by MIXED WRONG!!! I went to a prog metal show last summer--three bands--and more than half of the crowd left before the headliner came on because it was: 1. TOO LOUD. and 2. MIXED WRONG. As it was my son's first big concert, we stayed, but it was 4 hours of double bass drum pedal...and nothing else audible. Worst was that we were literally sitting with the soundboards directly behind us...apparently that's what the sound guys think people want to hear?
I've played in original rock bands my whole life, so #1 and #4 don't necessarily apply to me all that much (if those are a problem, the promotor or venue have hired the wrong band entirely). However: #3 NO DANCING is incredibly important. EVEN IF YOU ARE AN ORIGINAL BAND THAT DOESN"T PLAY DANCE MUSIC, you still need to determine what you expect your audience to be doing with their bodies when you play. This is the single biggest mistake I see original bands doing. In rock, your influences aren't necessarily be the most danceable bands, but you have to ask how you want your audience to respond physically to your music. It could be dancing, headbanging, shuffling, moshing, whatever, but you have to tailor a large portion of your music toward that physical activity, and whatever that groove is, you need to do it well.
I stand by the philosophy that if you play a cover song it better be compleetly different version than the original, else there is no point in making it. It is allready made..
Indeed go original and play your covers in the style of your band. (Do make a cohesive and engaging style, don't jump from style to style every song) Define your style and sound to be clear in what to expect. "We don't have one specific style. We are so unique bla bla bla" is BS. Go figure out what you play first before wasting the audience their time. Say for example: "we play k-pop songs in a country rock style". That way it can be marketed, people know what to expect and you have something to work with. Or go tribute and be the band as close as possible. Not just a wig but dress up in every detail, arrive, walk, talk, play as that artist and leave as. (Do not get back into the audience after a gig as yourself because that breaks the immersion. You might end up in some social feeds)
Yes. There's nothing better than a cover that is completely different & a unique take. If it's too close to the original, it just sounds like bad karaoke.
Us musicians have to remember that audiences don't look at live music like we do. If you're in a cover band (these are the bands that make the most money), you have to give them what they want. We got constant requests for Wagon Wheel, so we picked it up and the audience is happy. Played a packed house last night.
Do not know what genre you are talking about but if people go see an actual band, that plays and sings without assistance, and expect to hear only tunes they know then stay home and listen to the streams they love so much. Not talked about but bands that almost have to play " the. hits" but change them up somewhat is always welcome by me. It is nice to know they are not just going through the motions with those songs.
I’ve been to parties and dances with live bands where it took more than a few seconds to try to recognize what they were playing. Maybe a couple or two would take the dance floor. When the band took their break and the DJ took over…. The dance floor was PACKED. The very instant the beat dropped, everyone knew what song it was.The band returned and back to that 2-3 brave couples on the dance floor.
on the other side of the coin, I've been to a bar where the DJ cleared the dance floor with just 3 notes of "mambo #5" - and then played the song in its entirety and even sang along instead of doing an early cut to another song.
This is wild. I perform in a local metal band, and I DJ a local goth night. While a couple of these apply to DJing goth clubs (keep them dancing, fuck the solos), literally every single one of these list items does not apply to heavy metal performers and the metal community. They're both very small, niche communities though, and I think you are speaking of more of a mainstream, average clubgoer's experience.
As a listner i hate long pauses between tracks and dudes with a cheap tuners mounted on necks. In addition I've seen one a guy tuning a guitar on stage without muting. And the last drop is a noise when someone picks up guitar in the beginning of show. Volume knobs! Use them when you are supposed to stay silent. I have volume pedals in all of my rigs for the same purpose.
If the best pros in the game use a snark why tf wouldn’t I use one 😂 the only people that get annoyed by head mounted tuners are guitar elitists that won’t get you paid anyway.
This isy take from experience when it comes to overall volume from bands and club patrons, people in general, will tolarate a bands loudness if they sound good and are playing the right kind of music, fits the reason why they are there in the first place, but if a band is hitting frequencies that are annoying or hurtful to peoples ears, then it doesnt matter whether a band is good, or playing the right kind of music,or even if the volume is kept in check. However, everyone is different and a band can't please everybody at the same time. There will always be individuals that no matter what a band does to make it right, some people will always have an excuse to bitch!
Your video is top class! There's a few things out of it I should convey somehow to one or two of my bandmates.😅 Just one word on the exceedingly long solos. It's correct that solos that are longer than, let's say one or one-and-a-half minutes tend to get the audience bored - and righteously so! But in general, soloing in a covers band, as I play in, is often casting pearls before swine. You work hard to master a cool guitar solo in a groovy song and while you are playing those, let's say, 16 bars, you see the people who were before singing along, waving, cheering turn to each other, to their beer or food etc., waiting for the chorus to set in again. The lack of appreciation for what you can do as an instrumentalist is sometimes a bit frustrating.
This is for mainstream music listeners. The jamband scene is a whole other animal. Long solos, improvisational music where much of it is being mixed up in many ways. This is for advanced listeners.
I am a man of faith . Around 2015 the whole right side of my body stopped working ... My belief is God protected me from performing in this day and age ... When I was on stage , I can see people's faces . It was a big part of performing for people . But I am sure I would not be a musician if I saw cellphones instead of faces . So the cellphone is now your eyes ? I love seeing videos of live performances , but as soon as I see that it is somebody's cellphone recording . I feel disgusted and turn it off emediatly . Wow . It's grainy , and the sound is not what the performer intended .
Why are jam band fans always so elitist? I play in a jam band, and I would never say this with a straight face. Generally, the folks that believe there is all of this improvisational wizardry going on don't know enough about music to understand how basic the chord structure is being jammed over or how easy it is to move as a unit when all you are thinking about is dynamics. Goes all the way back to Miles Davis and John Coltrane realizing how much fun it could be to solo over one chord and have the over tonality in your hands as the soloist. It's cool, but it isn't "advanced." Basically, don't say this shit. I don't think any of us really need you using our art as an excuse to look down your nose at people.
@@LucSulla I can appreciate what you're saying here but I think you missed the point of what I was saying. No one said wizardry and I by no means was referring to the complexities or lack there of in jamband music. I was more pointing to the fact that this guys video is more directed to mainstream music fans or fans that listen to music that is much more aligned with mainstream music or music that gets pumped out by the corporate "art machine". Perhaps my usage of the word "advanced" could have been swapped out with another word. Sorry to get you all riled up about your, as you put it "basic" art.
bands of any stripe that bring their own following to the gig (yours?) may play the game a bit differently. ANY band looking to expand their audience (not yours?) could benefit from any or all of these points adjusted maybe somewhat. I mean Alien Ant Farm did Smooth Criminal "their own way" but you knew what it was immediately if you knew what it was at all. Same with Nightwish doing Phantom of the Opera. The coffee shop audience may not dance but I would suggest they want to groove not yawn, and a jazz solo that feels long is, well, long, and that is not a plus.
It's refreshing to hear "keep them dancing" as a tip for bands. As an older white musician in the south, so many rock bands in the area seem like they're almost allergic to rhythm. Getting them to play a groove is like pulling a tooth.
I live in California but travel to Louisiana a lot, it's a different groove down south. I always try to bring a little of that back with me and it helps.
I play jazz. Even the band don't recognise what we're playing. Our solos go on a bit.............actually they go on all night. But people still dance.
I agree with all your points. There is one thing I must add though. I really hate it when I pay good money to listen to a band and when one of their songs that is popular with the crowd, suddenly turns into some kind of karaoke thing. I know this statement may offend some, but I came to listen to the band, not the crowd chanting out of key and making the song into that, #1 music is different category.
Agreed. It's one thing to hear the audience sing along with the artist, but it's infuriating to have he audience take over the vocals entirely. See for example the final time through the chorus on "Piano Man" (and I'm saying this as a huge Billy Joel fan).
Wow, I just recently discovered your channel. I've been diving in and discovering great insights. Really like the approach, it's methodical and friendly and measured, without hype and without trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. And, sir, you have the best beard since Moses 😊
I'm a blues guy, so taking long solos helped me figure out my craft...but, now as I get older, I tend to agree-that you should be able to say what you want to musically, in a more concise way. As they say, I wish I knew then, what I do now"- that I'm retirement age...Better late than never right?
I love blues rock too and while there is no need for a five minute guitar solo in every song, we do need a reasonable solo and one extended one in a show is fine. We don’t need 25 minute songs that would take up a whole album side, but stretching a four minute studio song by a minute or two is fine with some improvisation.
Agreed. She goes overboard with the “you sing it” shtick. It’s a form of vocal cheating. Her pipes were never really strong to begin with. Good on her for the attempt at her age though
Wow. I don't even know where to begin. I guess I'll preface with this: most of this seems to be aimed at cover bands who play in bars and clubs, imho. #1. Never really heard this complaint. Sure, I wouldn't want to hear a slowed down acoustic version of "Vasoline" done in 6/8 time, but would that really be a possibility? In my experience, live versions often are different due to having guest musicians on the studio version. Yeah, that mandolin, Hammond organ, or slide guitar is cool in the studio, but nobody in the band plays those instruments (or at least they won't haul around a Hammond for just one song when there is a keyboardist). Also, often the way the song was originally composed is how it's done live; what is heard on a recording often is the result of someone saying "Wouldn't it be cool to have (pick an instrument) do this part?" #2. Depends on if it is already part of the song. Are you playing "Stairway to Heaven", "Hotel California", "Freebird", or some Floyd? If, so, play it. If you're trying to add "your own thing" or just trying to kill time while the lead singer uses the restroom, yeah, then it sucks. #3. This relates to my preface of this video being directed at acts playing clubs/bars (and by extension, wedding receptions and corporate events). When I attend shows, they usually are either in arenas or concert halls. Any dancing is limited to hip and shoulder sway at one's seat, for the most part; from time to time, I'll see a few people with floor seats TRY to dance in the aisles, but there is no "dance floor", so let's get real. #4. See #3. Also, when I go to see a live show, I'm often interested in the performance and the equipment. If the recording used a 12-string Gibson, are they using one live, or is it a 6-string Gibson with an emulator? Or do they use a 12-string Rick live? If it's a cover band, I like to see the lead guitarist's parts to see how much he/she mirrors the original. Plus, #3 and #4 don't apply to jazz or chamber music. This take is so wrong on so many levels. #5. If I'm going to a rock show, I take ear plugs just in case. At times, I haven't needed them (such as at an outdoor ampitheater or the mix and volume is tolerable to go without). The only times I've thought the show was too loud was when the singer sounded like the adults in the Peanuts, but that might have been a combination of mix and volume (if the artist played something I knew, I could figure out where they were in the song from the music; if they played a deep cut, I was completely lost and couldn't enjoy the lyrics).
Exactly right! We test songs with the idea “will everyone have heard and recognize this song” for a venue or event as it’s not always the same. Thanks for a great instructional video. We appreciate your work. God Bless!
So I grew up playing in hardcore bands at mainly small venues, but does anyone else agree everything would sound a lot better if the drummer could just chill out on the cymbals? I just think it's crazy to be crashing those cymbals in a small pub w/ under 50 people hahaha. And I bet that cracked crash isn't in the forefront of their mix like it is live hahah
So true about the long solos and too loud. You have to remember you're playing for your audience, not yourself. I swing dance, and there are lots fo good bands around me. One band had excellent musicians, but their songs were always too long because of the long solos in every song. When you're swing dancing, you usually change partners every song, and it gets boring dancing wiht the dame person to the same song for too long. I was friends with the bass player, and told her, she shared the input with the leader (guitar player), many people complained to the venue owner, who told the band, but they just couldn't keep their songs under 4 minutes. Eventually, they stopped getting swing dance gigs. Maybe there are venues where they like long solos, hopefully they had success there.
Some great points. The reference to dancing is really important. The times I’ve seen a crowd really enjoying themselves dancing only for a band to follow up with a totally different tempo song which causes dancers to just evaporate from the floor. Getting them back up again can then be a real challenge.
Good suggestions. I think the king of all violations is to be too loud. Being a working drummer, I have to keep that in mind all the time. I also do open jams, and when the volume goes up too much, the place clears out. It's not a concert hall where the volume is supposed to be loud.
the key factor in the "too loud" equation is what the people are there to do. a concert will be louder than a club, and a club will be louder than a pub, which will be louder than a coffee shop.
Good advice overall. I recently saw Yes and Deep Purple in a double bill. They were mixed too loud and it actually affected the clarity of the vocals. Deep Purple also had basically no slower songs… all rockers with crazy chops solos. After a while these bled into each other. EQing well can often fix perceived loudness issues, roll some tone on the guitar, for example, but nothing fixes solos going on too long or a poor sequence of tunes.
Many things can keep people dancing. A very fast paced part with an awesome solo can result in a great circle pit. Have a softer/build up moment before said part and you can cue the audience for a wall of death, that hits as soon as a rapid part begins. Slower, chuggy parts get people doing regular pushing/bouncing pits, that turn into cluster pits or circle pits when the music picks up. Dynamics is key. Your music has to be captivating to the audience and to get their attention, hit them by surprise, so when that solo part hits it hits hard and the wall of death charges.
I'm sorry but I won't take the time to explain again how wrong-headed that is. maybe read some of the other replies to other more or less similar comments below.. If art falls in the forest and nobody hears it, does it make a sound?
@@Mooseboy08I detect no pretentiousness in his comment. He's stating a fact. This video is for wedding minstrels, not orchestras. The advice doesn't apply to groups who write their own music.
@@Mooseboy08I think a person who writes and performs their own music is an artist and anyone who strictly plays other peoples music is just a musician. If you can do some really good tracings of Raphael paintings, does that make you a painter?
As a DJ, I can confirm all these are true. A lot of my corporate gigs, I'm playing in between the bands sets. Unless the band gets people up and dancing it looks terrible if the DJ can.
All of this is about Professionalism as a musician and Artist, listening to this man will make you Better and turn you into a Professional, !!!! Thank him and , I wish there were more people like him spreading this knowledge 😊😊
The thing about people deciding if they like you quickly made me think of whether your music is genre-appropriate for a given event. In North America things are apparently more... elastic, especially nowadays, so SOAD touring as a support for Slayer didn't rise an eyebrow over there back in the 90s. But when SOAD was playing their 1st gig in Poland, in the 90s, as a support for Slayer... whoever allowed for that to happen should have been fired. Thrash metal heads of the time in the region were extremely orthodox in their tastes and hated on anything that wouldn't be thrash metal, maybe some death metal, some black metal and some heavy metal would get a pass, but they'd be very selective about it. And SOAD was like something from another planet to them, that got them booed off the stage, whistled at, food thrown at them - in the middle of the 1st song. The style (both looks wise as well as musically) was just too much of a wildly incompatible gap. It almost caused a riot with people being at the verge of breaking out with violence. Sadly, because of this experience, SOAD would then avoid gigging in Poland for the next 20 years... because they couldn't understand why this happened to them, didn't get the cultural difference why they were not an appropriate supporting act to a headliner like Slayer if in America this works well. Had they come to a different kind of a gig with a different headliner, or better yet, attend a festival like the Polish Woodstock (now renamed Pol'and'Rock), they would have had a totally different experience.
In my experience, it’s the bass guitar, coupled with a very loud kick drum that causes the mix to be ruined. The guitarist will subsequently turn up to be heard over all that low end, causing too much stage volume. Unfortunately a lot of sound engineers are hearing impaired and will crank the low end of the mix to the point where it’s painful for the audience. I agree a too loud guitar can be annoying, but ANY instrument that’s not sitting in a mix correctly can ruin a band’s sound.
I guess it depends on the type of music. When songs sound exactly like the record without a bit of improvisation I might as well save my money and stay home to listen to the record. It depends on what you mean about long solos, as a rock fan I enjoy a reasonable guitar solo. I don’t need to dance but I do need to groove to the music. Finally, I like loud music as long as it’s not distorted.
Wisdom! I think the important point here is showmanship. It's not all about the music it's about presentation and connecting with the audience! It's about CRAFTSMANSHIP!
I have a 10-piece Motown Revue band in a region that tends towards a Blues sensibility. We have several musicians who will solo between themselves for extended periods of time (keys, sax, trumpet, guitar). The audience still dances because we keep the groove going.
That's the thing, don't lose the groove. Or, part way through the solo the drummer changes something that keeps it interesting or the rhythm section does a breakdown which makes the solo shine again just at the joint where it might have started to grate.
I want to perform my instrumental speed/power/prog metal music in small local venues. I'm introverted, so I don't have much hope in a career as a musician. What can I get doing so?
Years ago I went to see a Led Zeppelin concert.. I have all their albums. Before I went to see them the Radio DJs and the press were ragging on them. I couldn't figure out why until I went to see them. I was about 20 feet from the stage. It turns out they couldn't produce the studio sound on the road. They sounded like a garage band. They did a lot of tricks to get that studio sound. I read that they would go out of the studio and record in the hallway. When you heard them on the radio, it sounded like the DJ wasn't paying attention, because the next song would come on right away. Well it turns out they didn't put any breaks on the album. one track runs into the next track. I think finally they (radio DJs) put them on carts. Another thing I hate is when singers want you to do their job. They point the mike at you and tell you to sing. I pay all this money, now I have to sing. Diana Ross does this at her concerts. The jazz guys are the best. They never disappoint. Although I hated it when Miles Davis would turn his back to the audience. RIP
I have said all of this for years! It might change in certain scenarios like jazz or certain rock songs, but nonetheless a band has to connect with the audience on THEIR level. If not, a band or musician can't complain as to why they don't have a large following.
Whether or not a piece of music makes me want to dance has to do with how the rhythm is constructed and how the musicians play it. Dance music is constructed. We learn this from hearing Fred Wesley talk about how funk is written. If people aren't dancing then either the music is fundamentally not danceable, or you're not playing it right. Now, if the most important thing for an audience is familiarity, then (a) that's really sad, and (b) personally, I'd be looking to do something else for a living.
My main gripe: the ever growing trend of brand level-Artist's bands using backing tracks in the effort to cut costs.( However, I'm sure that decision is made by Corporate) Live used to be LIVE 😮!
The information you give on this channel is very useful for the young musicians of today's world, otherwise for people like me its the absolute confirmation that its time to quiet my dreams and only keep playing guitar for my own improvement, I never gonna be a real musician🙄
The idea that some instruments have a frequency that is irritating to the ear is a new one on me. As well as the guitar, what other instruments fall into that category?
sit front center at a small jazz show w a trumpet player in your face. Could be anything too loud and focused tho. Sub bass, guitar, shrill vocals etc. Depends on the space, the players, the instruments, the soundman, the pa, the stage, and your location to all the above. Very common that live music is unbalanced. Another prob is things you can barely hear. Live sound is not ideal like a studio.
Definitely knowing your audience. Watching a guy the other day at the beach. Crowd's average age was probably over 50 of non-European folks. the guy played some singer-songwriter stuff and got good response, then, inexplicably, started playing and singing Portuguese music and the sound was way too loud. By his first break the crowd was gone.
Recently at a small restaurant 1 year anniversary. So they hired a band of locals. They geared up like they where playing to a crowd of 3-400. Not 50-75 in a small area. I been in biz 25 years. Told wife it’s gonna be loud AF cuz they are even micing the kick drum Should have been just Keys and Vox and everything else come off the stage. It was painful.
I think Counting Crows is a good example of the music is different. The studio recordings are great, even the live music is good but the vocals are another story.
I am a different type of a guitar player. I am a solo melodic instrumental guitarist. I am not a one who goes out and plays to make a bunch of noise. I am one who is easy-going and I do solo instrumental pieces of music a lot of people slow dance to my music. I do songs like stairway to Heaven hotel California and a few Beatles songs. I have a beautiful song collection that I do. Most people like me because I am not radical. I’m laid-back and I’m very easy-going all except I do is stand on stage where they guitar in my hand and never sing, but play beautiful solo instrumental pieces much about like what Chad Atkins would do, although he is my idol guitarist. I don’t even compare myself to him. He was an amazing guitarist. But for playing since 1974 and being 71 now with 50 years of experience, I don’t feel I do too bad. I know people like me because they tip me very well. But I have not played out and quite a while because Covid has pretty well ruined the music industry for live entertainment. Maybe I can get back out there again soon I love your video. You have good advice and I totally agree with you. have a great day.👍👍❤️😄🎸🎼🎵🎶🎸👍❤️
Any band that someone's intentionally going to see. Regardless of the size of the show, if the band is known and tickets are sold on the basis of the band's name then the majority of those attending expect to hear the big hits. Only exception is if it's specifically promoted as something else. Eg they're performing an entire album, in order, live or they're specifically playing songs that weren't released as singles. Etc. But if it's just a generic concert promoted purely on the strength of the band name then play the big hits yes, that's what everyone's expecting and the surest way to disappoint is to not deliver what's expected.
On top of the points you mentioned, two rules I have for my band is no tuning without muting and no between song noodling. I really hate both of those things when I see a band. Just comes off unprofessional.
I like when bands play their own interpretations of songs. Playing it exactly like the record is boring. You might as well hire a DJ. I like long solos. As long as the they are well constructed and exciting.
The long solo is difficult situation to navigate to where it’s too much, if the solo is in the middle of song, and they are dancing double the solo and or maybe a extra 8 or 12 and that’s it, because after awhile you will lose them, but keep em dancing so they will get thirsty and buy more drinks
While I agree with some of this, but I'll have to disagree on the soloing..ei. the Allman Brothers / Santana/ the grateful Dead.. what was solos or what people go to hear sometimes you know.. Most of what you're saying is geared towards a cover / party band. Original bands don't have to pander to that.
If not playing too loud is such a well known rule, why do ALL bands do it? Is it because musicians have impaired hearing due to all the loud music they are often exposed to? Is it because the musicians are behind the speakers and can't hear how loud the music is to the audience? I always wear ear plugs (the orange kind you can buy by the container at Home Depot) and I can hear the music and the vocals just fine. That tells you how loud the music actually is.
I've actually had success with playing songs differently than the original versions - in some cases. We old ZZ Top pretty close to the record but our Patsy Cline song sounds like an all male three piece, but it works. I wouldn't try to get away with that all night.
There are only certain bands which can play differant versions of their popular songs. Grateful Dead and TOOL come to mind, but that's what their fans have come to expect.
![Tee Grizzley - Blow for Blow (feat. J. Cole) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wNLN5xsx5dc/mqdefault.jpg)
Two other things I hate: 1) Too much banter and talking between songs, and 2) Dead air. The band takes too long to start the next song. Either they don't know what they're going to play (no set list), they're busy chatting amongst themselves, or someone isn't ready for the next tune and the band has to wait for them. And there's no one on mic covering that space. I hate it from both sides, as an audience attendee AND as a band member!
Many people go to live music as social events and dont care about the actual music at all, they are drag alongs or want to meet people, hang w friends, just something to do. Most dont care that much about the actual music tho they pretend to. That is ok. Whole music scenes and successful bands exist because of the social aspects of shows rather than the actual music. If ppl could not talk whole bands and scenes would fail to draw. Also many genres are improv based w no setlist and the audience wants that. One example of a scene that is both pro socializing and improv is certain jambands, jazz, improv music etc. Wives and girlfriends especially do not want to be dead silent when dragged to those things or other such genres they do not enjoy but will go to w their bf or spouse. Music is not all about music. Not at all!
Those are two good ones to add and should be highly considered as much as the five on this list. Dead air is a straight up killer - kills the mood of the audience, makes the band feel anxious and look sloppy/unprofessional.
@@kdub607 Not every show or band has to be some slick predictable production, and I think that even kills the spontaneity and surprise and suspense of live music. Breaks and lulls are good to allow people to talk and get a break on their ears. Again it is not really about the music for I would say at least half the audience at any show. Many are there for the people and socializing more than sitting being played to non stop, not being able to talk from constant music. Breaks are good. Loose and unpredictable is good. No set list is good. Not to the point of sloppy drunk dive bar bands that suck, but those types of bands suck even if they had a tight set with no lulls. Not everyone is at the edge of their seat wanting to hear constant music and not being able to talk. Actually music was more fun when it was like that. I think that tight slick productions killed live music for many. Think of the 60s and 70s where most everything was way more loose. That era and music and the live shows are classic and often legendary, regardless of lulls or no set list. The rise of slick productions I think took the soul out of live music.
@@RocknJazzer I get what you're saying, and we're not talking about a moment of a break between a song here and there. Dead air is when everyone on stage is standing around not knowing what to do or what the next song is. Dead air is when that happens and the front line isn't doing anything to engage or talk/joke with the audience to keep them connected. I've seen it many times, I've even experienced it within my band or others that I've sat in with. My band has been known as a top dance band - we are hired because the events want their audience to be on the floor as much as possible. Our formula has been tried and true for us - we have a tight flow that rivals any DJ (to point number 4 of whether they should have hired a DJ). We still break if transitioning to let's say a ballad, but there's little dead air. The front line will engage, doing the usual - "How are you enjoying yourselves? What birthdays do we have/zodiac month?" Things that keep a connection to your audience. If you're referring to clubs/bars/restaurants, that's a different venue with a different approach. Some of those places only have an entertainment license, but no dance license for example - so yeah breaking between more songs is acceptable. It depends on the venue, the audience, and the type of show you were hired to present/perform.
@@kdub607 Yes I understand, that seems to be the modern pro working band protocol, but other genres and genres have different standards and protocols that does without much of that, more relaxed, more akin to the days of the golden classic rock era late 60s thru late 70s, where things were looser and people were there more for the party, the hang, the drugs, the people...ie a less commercial approach where it didnt matter much or as much, which I prefer. But if thats not your bands thing then of course do what is best. I'm just saying this guys video is not differentiating, he is painting with a wide one size fits all brush. Many styles dont want a slick approach, they shun it for a more loose informal presentation. I prefer that because it feels less like a product or being marketed to, and more like art at a social gathering rather than a slick product. Concerts of decades past and in smaller genres were more fun and no one complained. I think we need to get back to that more today.
My biggest pet peeve is, "How's everyone doing tonight?"
"I can't hear you. I said how's everyone DOING TONIGHT??”
It just feels so cheap and forced every time I hear it.
@JMSoloBassist Or as a FOH engineer, when the band's says, "How's it sounding out there?" Does it sound good?"
terrible. everyone hates that.
I hate that too.
Everyone hates everything these days, you don’t deserve to be entertained, you are spoilt rotten.
Go watch Taylor swift 🖕🏻
Time and a place for everything… but there are better ways to do it
It went more than 1 min and 15 seconds before you got to the first point. Your audience hates that.
I was literally about to comment that before I clicked away!
Best comment ever!
Check out "Wings of Pegasus"---he gets into it at about 0:09
Thank you. I usually fast forward videos until it looks like the person is getting to 😮the point. Long introductions and blah blah. All that crap decreases the possibility that I will even watch the full video. Then, if I like it enough, I will let you know and possibly subscribe.
I like videos that get to the point and are actually related to the title.
Thank you. I usually fast forward videos until it looks like the person is getting to 😮the point. Long introductions and blah blah. All that crap decreases the possibility that I will even watch the full video. Then, if I like it enough, I will let you know and possibly subscribe.
I like videos that get to the point and are actually related to the title.
It depends on the music style. People who listen to jazz are more used to longer solos. Both jazz and classical music are listening music.
yeah- it depends on what you expect to hear...(ie: no one complains about the long solos in, "Hotel California", or, "Free Bird"...)...
I'm good with solos being slightly on the longer side but when it goes out into the weeds and I don't even know what's being played anymore, I find it unsettling and uncomfortable. Yeah, take it out in the weeds for a bit, but don't forget to bring it back home again. Home is nice. We like home. We like the familiar. You wanna play your own originals, great, but don't call it Sweet Georgia Brown if no one would ever recognize that's the song you've been playing for the last 8 minutes. (I play jazz piano.)
Thelonious Monk wrote in his tips to musicians “play the MELODY!”
Kind of depends on the artist too. A friend saw Joe Satriani a decade or so ago. Mind boggling how effortlessly Joe can play anything. But after a while it was like one long guitar solo. Some loved it, that's what the paid to see, others grew weary of it.
Jambands too, the dirty uneducated uncouth step cousin of jazz, blues, folk, rock, & bluegrass.
This should be retitled "5 Things Audiences Hate When Listening To Cover Bands"
To be fair... actual research has shown that the #1 hated thing to hear from a singer at a concert, is "Here's a song from our new álbum..."
@@AnthonySforzaI've seen more than one band state (in concert) that the quickest way to send the audience to the restroom or concession stands is to play a track off their new/upcoming album.
TBF, though, when is a band supposed to play new material? A point of touring is to promote new material.
That comes back to point #1 audiences don't like original music unless it sounds something they've heard before. Originality is out of fashion. Conformity is in.
@@AlmostEthical Sounds like the musician's Kobayashi Maru. If they continue to sound how they've always sounded, listeners will criticize them for not growing musically and being boring; if they try to expand their horizons, listeners will accuse them of getting away from their roots/what made them famous.🤷♂️
@@Prof_Jeff so the point of playing out is to kill klingons?
Dance music ain’t the only music.
Gawd, yes! So much this! Is this musical kindergarten? The audiences need to pay attention to artists. Not every concert is a damn Disco!
Although that's true, it's also true that you still have to connect with your audience, whatever that means. Musicians also have to also admit that just because a musician might like something, that doesn't mean that the audience will like it.
Dance music is sh!t. I want to go hear real music, like King Crimson, not musical garbage.
@@bradcrosier1332 Not very metal, considering how awesome Flamenco is.
@@Traumglanz - I hate to break it to you , but I don’t think they’re referencing Flamenco when they talk about “dance music.” While not really my thing, I definitely appreciate the talent and quality of that particular genre.
Video should be titled 'Five Things CASUAL Audiences Hate'. Or maybe 'Bar/Club Audiences'. Because not a single one of these, except for maybe the first one, applies to a rock venue/concert.
Right tho
Yeah it really depends on the setting. I play a gig every Friday at a lodge in Seattle where I play acoustic/jazz instrumentals and I loop and solo/improvise for literally 3 hours and they love it. I make excellent tips and the first time I played there it went well enough that they offered me a residency. It wouldn't work everywhere but for this environment it's perfect
These suggestions only apply to cover bands playing at clubs.
Yes 85% of most gigs that I perform
I will respectfully disagree. I play with a rock / jam band that plays mostly original music. We play a lot of festivals, and even in the jam band scene, where the audiences are perpetually stoned, solid tend to run very long, and not say bet much.
Even outside of the festival scene, I play a lot of venues that tends towards original music and we hear band that are too loud when running their own sound.
Even original bands don't always understand how to read a room, and play songs that don't work.
I think that's his target audience.
Video needed a different title so I didn't have to waste my time
@@SeanEverettHuntTbf, being too loud is also applicable to original scenes. I like loud, Im a Rocker but even Ive been made feel nauseated simply by volume.
Playing with overly long solos can and do apply to any musical setting. In fact, many musicians will be turned away for excessive noodling! This is any live music.
Also imagine you’re an original band, you’re playing too many fast or slow songs in one big chunk. If people are to remember your set for the RIGHT reasons, you have got to be able to entertain and keep the audience captivated which you s what this video is also saying.
The DJ could definitely also be a better option to your band regardless of cover or original bands.
Music is like a relationship, the littlest thingz does count and make the biggest difference
My problem with volume often comes down to the low bass frequencies overpowering the live mix and not enough midrange and high end coming through. I don’t know if it’s a local thing, but sound men are addicted to the low end in too many bands. Adding excessive overall volume only makes it worse.
No sound men in most bars in my area. Guitar players use too much bass when playing live. You have to EQ the amp differently when playing at home and playing live. Guitar is a midrange frequency instrument, the bass should take care of the low end of the frequency spectrum.
Exactly!
Only certain kinds of music are about dancing.
"if it hasn't got a pulse it's, well, not alive"- Mark Craney (drummed with Tommy Bolin, Jean-Luc Ponty, Jethro Tull, Gino Vannelli, Tower of Power, and others). Eberhard Weber and Allan Holdsworth will have me dancing in my seat, also Ravi Shankar...
@@callmeal3017I’m neurodivergent af and dancing/singing just feels alien and gross even despite the fact that I’m a musician. On top of that, idk how to effectively dance to ambient music for example lmao, sometimes I just wanna chill and either zone out or appreciate the audio introspectively
You missed : well known bands playing their hits too fast and : well known bands , having played their hits 6,000 times before on a live stage, changing melody lines and improvising out of boredom. Audiences don't want that.
Sometimes it's boredom, but there's other reasons too:
- that melody was always improvised, and recording it didn't change that.
- a change might be done, as an improvement, songs often evolve quite a lot before it gets recorded, and sometimes that keeps happening after recording. Maybe on the recording some part is very hard or straining to play, or the band hates how it sounds.
- it's done to keep the performance unique, so it's not just the same show for literally everybody forever. Making the experience more special.
But I also very often get disappointed at the changes when I'm in the audience. But sometimes that type of stuff is one of the reasons why some people prefer the live versions.
Iron Maiden plays "The Trooper" WAY too fast live. It absolutely sucks.
Sometimes I like that, sometimes I don't
Obviously you were not around during the late 60's / 70's or attending gigs by bands like the Grateful Dead where the whole point of going to a gig was seeing the bands improvise , alter , change and radically restate the songs as heard on the albums . What was the point of paying money to hear the exact , same version you heard on record ? ln those days the music was an uncharted territory that many bands took advantage of and the songs as a result were changed drastically . Now it's play your well known songs by numbers and perform them just like they are on the LP or CD .....Boring and predictable . Jams and improvised music can be formless and boring but on a good night when the ideas and inspiration are flowing they can be mind blowing .
I do
I’m so glad that you’re posting these tidbits of wisdom. Over 35 years in the biz and a lot of hard knocks learning these same exact lessons. Hope the younger cats put some serious thought into what you’re sharing with them. Keep up the good work!!!
Hate is a strong word. People just get bored or feel awkward dancing and the groove is dying. People usually walk away cuz of boredom or discomfort rather than having any strong opinion about the music. Also repeating “hate” and “irritating” could easily have synonyms instead and not cause me to be bored of this video and walk out cuz 🤷🏻♀️ not cuz i hate it
the number of times I've seen a drummer keep time through a solo, then do the fill to go back into the verse.... then do the fill to go back into the verse... roll their eyes, do the fill to go back into the verse...
Another thing that audiences really don’t like… music tracks behind commentary in videos.
lol.......
I guess I’m different. I love to hear long solos.
Rock bands seem to be avoiding guitar solos, even short ones, these days. I found blues rockers are keeping the guitar solos alive.
The Japanese rock bands are still doing guitar solos in songs. Check out Band-maid's live video of "Domination".
@@amgerth Blues rock is still keeping the solos alive too, even long ones. Ally Venable is my current favorite. I’ve been watching the Band Maid with The Warning video but have not explored Band Maid further. I’m a fan of The Warning and they have the occasional solo but many songs do not have solos.
Omg, people, Japanese rock & metal is just incredible. Put anything from US/UK aside and seek out Jap bands. Lovebites, Band Maid (of course) and my favorite- Ningen Isu!!. Fearless solos.
This is a list for what posers like when they go see a band that they've heard of.
Seen Peter Frampton a few years back and he and his guitarist got into this endless guitar solo duel and it was fun for a bit, then got extremely tedious. I'm a guitar player and I could not wait for it to be over and up to the point of the endless solos, I was LOVING the show.
I hate when the song title is announced; surprise me instead and just launch into the song.
TOO LOUD!!!! Followed by MIXED WRONG!!! I went to a prog metal show last summer--three bands--and more than half of the crowd left before the headliner came on because it was: 1. TOO LOUD. and 2. MIXED WRONG. As it was my son's first big concert, we stayed, but it was 4 hours of double bass drum pedal...and nothing else audible. Worst was that we were literally sitting with the soundboards directly behind us...apparently that's what the sound guys think people want to hear?
I've played in original rock bands my whole life, so #1 and #4 don't necessarily apply to me all that much (if those are a problem, the promotor or venue have hired the wrong band entirely).
However: #3 NO DANCING is incredibly important. EVEN IF YOU ARE AN ORIGINAL BAND THAT DOESN"T PLAY DANCE MUSIC, you still need to determine what you expect your audience to be doing with their bodies when you play. This is the single biggest mistake I see original bands doing. In rock, your influences aren't necessarily be the most danceable bands, but you have to ask how you want your audience to respond physically to your music. It could be dancing, headbanging, shuffling, moshing, whatever, but you have to tailor a large portion of your music toward that physical activity, and whatever that groove is, you need to do it well.
I stand by the philosophy that if you play a cover song it better be compleetly different version than the original, else there is no point in making it. It is allready made..
Indeed go original and play your covers in the style of your band. (Do make a cohesive and engaging style, don't jump from style to style every song) Define your style and sound to be clear in what to expect. "We don't have one specific style. We are so unique bla bla bla" is BS. Go figure out what you play first before wasting the audience their time. Say for example: "we play k-pop songs in a country rock style". That way it can be marketed, people know what to expect and you have something to work with.
Or go tribute and be the band as close as possible. Not just a wig but dress up in every detail, arrive, walk, talk, play as that artist and leave as. (Do not get back into the audience after a gig as yourself because that breaks the immersion. You might end up in some social feeds)
Yes. There's nothing better than a cover that is completely different & a unique take. If it's too close to the original, it just sounds like bad karaoke.
Us musicians have to remember that audiences don't look at live music like we do. If you're in a cover band (these are the bands that make the most money), you have to give them what they want. We got constant requests for Wagon Wheel, so we picked it up and the audience is happy. Played a packed house last night.
"Wagon Wheel" is for losers.
I feel your pain of playing that song for the kind of audience who demands that song.
Do not know what genre you are talking about but if people go see an actual band, that plays and sings without assistance, and expect to hear only tunes they know then stay home and listen to the streams they love so much. Not talked about but bands that almost have to play " the. hits" but change them up somewhat is always welcome by me. It is nice to know they are not just going through the motions with those songs.
I’ve been to parties and dances with live bands where it took more than a few seconds to try to recognize what they were playing. Maybe a couple or two would take the dance floor. When the band took their break and the DJ took over…. The dance floor was PACKED. The very instant the beat dropped, everyone knew what song it was.The band returned and back to that 2-3 brave couples on the dance floor.
on the other side of the coin, I've been to a bar where the DJ cleared the dance floor with just 3 notes of "mambo #5" - and then played the song in its entirety and even sang along instead of doing an early cut to another song.
This is wild. I perform in a local metal band, and I DJ a local goth night. While a couple of these apply to DJing goth clubs (keep them dancing, fuck the solos), literally every single one of these list items does not apply to heavy metal performers and the metal community. They're both very small, niche communities though, and I think you are speaking of more of a mainstream, average clubgoer's experience.
As a listner i hate long pauses between tracks and dudes with a cheap tuners mounted on necks. In addition I've seen one a guy tuning a guitar on stage without muting. And the last drop is a noise when someone picks up guitar in the beginning of show. Volume knobs! Use them when you are supposed to stay silent. I have volume pedals in all of my rigs for the same purpose.
If the best pros in the game use a snark why tf wouldn’t I use one 😂 the only people that get annoyed by head mounted tuners are guitar elitists that won’t get you paid anyway.
#6 " this next song is off our new album"
This isy take from experience when it comes to overall volume from bands and club patrons, people in general, will tolarate a bands loudness if they sound good and are playing the right kind of music, fits the reason why they are there in the first place, but if a band is hitting frequencies that are annoying or hurtful to peoples ears, then it doesnt matter whether a band is good, or playing the right kind of music,or even if the volume is kept in check. However, everyone is different and a band can't please everybody at the same time. There will always be individuals that no matter what a band does to make it right, some people will always have an excuse to bitch!
One thing u left out is a need to establish and keep pocket. 80's and 90's music was pocket forward. Keep teaching bro
I don't understand what you mean.
Your video is top class! There's a few things out of it I should convey somehow to one or two of my bandmates.😅
Just one word on the exceedingly long solos. It's correct that solos that are longer than, let's say one or one-and-a-half minutes tend to get the audience bored - and righteously so!
But in general, soloing in a covers band, as I play in, is often casting pearls before swine. You work hard to master a cool guitar solo in a groovy song and while you are playing those, let's say, 16 bars, you see the people who were before singing along, waving, cheering turn to each other, to their beer or food etc., waiting for the chorus to set in again. The lack of appreciation for what you can do as an instrumentalist is sometimes a bit frustrating.
This is for mainstream music listeners. The jamband scene is a whole other animal. Long solos, improvisational music where much of it is being mixed up in many ways. This is for advanced listeners.
I am a man of faith . Around 2015 the whole right side of my body stopped working ... My belief is God protected me from performing in this day and age ... When I was on stage , I can see people's faces . It was a big part of performing for people . But I am sure I would not be a musician if I saw cellphones instead of faces . So the cellphone is now your eyes ? I love seeing videos of live performances , but as soon as I see that it is somebody's cellphone recording . I feel disgusted and turn it off emediatly . Wow . It's grainy , and the sound is not what the performer intended .
Why are jam band fans always so elitist? I play in a jam band, and I would never say this with a straight face. Generally, the folks that believe there is all of this improvisational wizardry going on don't know enough about music to understand how basic the chord structure is being jammed over or how easy it is to move as a unit when all you are thinking about is dynamics. Goes all the way back to Miles Davis and John Coltrane realizing how much fun it could be to solo over one chord and have the over tonality in your hands as the soloist. It's cool, but it isn't "advanced."
Basically, don't say this shit. I don't think any of us really need you using our art as an excuse to look down your nose at people.
@@LucSulla I can appreciate what you're saying here but I think you missed the point of what I was saying. No one said wizardry and I by no means was referring to the complexities or lack there of in jamband music. I was more pointing to the fact that this guys video is more directed to mainstream music fans or fans that listen to music that is much more aligned with mainstream music or music that gets pumped out by the corporate "art machine". Perhaps my usage of the word "advanced" could have been swapped out with another word. Sorry to get you all riled up about your, as you put it "basic" art.
Jazz and blues as well. A good solo will get a great reaction from these crowds.
bands of any stripe that bring their own following to the gig (yours?) may play the game a bit differently. ANY band looking to expand their audience (not yours?) could benefit from any or all of these points adjusted maybe somewhat. I mean Alien Ant Farm did Smooth Criminal "their own way" but you knew what it was immediately if you knew what it was at all. Same with Nightwish doing Phantom of the Opera. The coffee shop audience may not dance but I would suggest they want to groove not yawn, and a jazz solo that feels long is, well, long, and that is not a plus.
It's refreshing to hear "keep them dancing" as a tip for bands. As an older white musician in the south, so many rock bands in the area seem like they're almost allergic to rhythm. Getting them to play a groove is like pulling a tooth.
I live in California but travel to Louisiana a lot, it's a different groove down south. I always try to bring a little of that back with me and it helps.
I play jazz. Even the band don't recognise what we're playing. Our solos go on a bit.............actually they go on all night. But people still dance.
I agree with all your points. There is one thing I must add though. I really hate it when I pay good money to listen to a band and when one of their songs that is popular with the crowd, suddenly turns into some kind of karaoke thing. I know this statement may offend some, but I came to listen to the band, not the crowd chanting out of key and making the song into that, #1 music is different category.
Agreed. It's one thing to hear the audience sing along with the artist, but it's infuriating to have he audience take over the vocals entirely. See for example the final time through the chorus on "Piano Man" (and I'm saying this as a huge Billy Joel fan).
Wow, I just recently discovered your channel. I've been diving in and discovering great insights. Really like the approach, it's methodical and friendly and measured, without hype and without trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator. And, sir, you have the best beard since Moses 😊
I'm a blues guy, so taking long solos helped me figure out my craft...but, now as I get older, I tend to agree-that you should be able to say what you want to musically, in a more concise way. As they say, I wish I knew then, what I do now"- that I'm retirement age...Better late than never right?
I love blues rock too and while there is no need for a five minute guitar solo in every song, we do need a reasonable solo and one extended one in a show is fine. We don’t need 25 minute songs that would take up a whole album side, but stretching a four minute studio song by a minute or two is fine with some improvisation.
telling the audience to sing the lyrics instead of performing them . debbie harry is notorious for this
Agreed. She goes overboard with the “you sing it” shtick. It’s a form of vocal cheating. Her pipes were never really strong to begin with. Good on her for the attempt at her age though
Wow. I don't even know where to begin. I guess I'll preface with this: most of this seems to be aimed at cover bands who play in bars and clubs, imho.
#1. Never really heard this complaint. Sure, I wouldn't want to hear a slowed down acoustic version of "Vasoline" done in 6/8 time, but would that really be a possibility? In my experience, live versions often are different due to having guest musicians on the studio version. Yeah, that mandolin, Hammond organ, or slide guitar is cool in the studio, but nobody in the band plays those instruments (or at least they won't haul around a Hammond for just one song when there is a keyboardist). Also, often the way the song was originally composed is how it's done live; what is heard on a recording often is the result of someone saying "Wouldn't it be cool to have (pick an instrument) do this part?"
#2. Depends on if it is already part of the song. Are you playing "Stairway to Heaven", "Hotel California", "Freebird", or some Floyd? If, so, play it. If you're trying to add "your own thing" or just trying to kill time while the lead singer uses the restroom, yeah, then it sucks.
#3. This relates to my preface of this video being directed at acts playing clubs/bars (and by extension, wedding receptions and corporate events). When I attend shows, they usually are either in arenas or concert halls. Any dancing is limited to hip and shoulder sway at one's seat, for the most part; from time to time, I'll see a few people with floor seats TRY to dance in the aisles, but there is no "dance floor", so let's get real.
#4. See #3. Also, when I go to see a live show, I'm often interested in the performance and the equipment. If the recording used a 12-string Gibson, are they using one live, or is it a 6-string Gibson with an emulator? Or do they use a 12-string Rick live? If it's a cover band, I like to see the lead guitarist's parts to see how much he/she mirrors the original. Plus, #3 and #4 don't apply to jazz or chamber music. This take is so wrong on so many levels.
#5. If I'm going to a rock show, I take ear plugs just in case. At times, I haven't needed them (such as at an outdoor ampitheater or the mix and volume is tolerable to go without). The only times I've thought the show was too loud was when the singer sounded like the adults in the Peanuts, but that might have been a combination of mix and volume (if the artist played something I knew, I could figure out where they were in the song from the music; if they played a deep cut, I was completely lost and couldn't enjoy the lyrics).
I played with a band where they would borderline argue about the next song in between each song 😂
Exactly right! We test songs with the idea “will everyone have heard and recognize this song” for a venue or event as it’s not always the same. Thanks for a great instructional video. We appreciate your work. God Bless!
So I grew up playing in hardcore bands at mainly small venues, but does anyone else agree everything would sound a lot better if the drummer could just chill out on the cymbals? I just think it's crazy to be crashing those cymbals in a small pub w/ under 50 people hahaha.
And I bet that cracked crash isn't in the forefront of their mix like it is live hahah
So true about the long solos and too loud. You have to remember you're playing for your audience, not yourself. I swing dance, and there are lots fo good bands around me. One band had excellent musicians, but their songs were always too long because of the long solos in every song. When you're swing dancing, you usually change partners every song, and it gets boring dancing wiht the dame person to the same song for too long. I was friends with the bass player, and told her, she shared the input with the leader (guitar player), many people complained to the venue owner, who told the band, but they just couldn't keep their songs under 4 minutes. Eventually, they stopped getting swing dance gigs. Maybe there are venues where they like long solos, hopefully they had success there.
Don't talk politics or world views, audience is about half an half so you can lose a crowd that way.
Some great points. The reference to dancing is really important. The times I’ve seen a crowd really enjoying themselves dancing only for a band to follow up with a totally different tempo song which causes dancers to just evaporate from the floor. Getting them back up again can then be a real challenge.
I can play a 4 - 8 bar solo like it's my last solo, long solo doesn't equal masterful
Good suggestions. I think the king of all violations is to be too loud. Being a working drummer, I have to keep that in mind all the time. I also do open jams, and when the volume goes up too much, the place clears out. It's not a concert hall where the volume is supposed to be loud.
the key factor in the "too loud" equation is what the people are there to do. a concert will be louder than a club, and a club will be louder than a pub, which will be louder than a coffee shop.
Love the content. And your beard has gotten gorgeous and majestic!👌
1, 2, and 3 are what I love when listening to a jazz band!
Good advice overall.
I recently saw Yes and Deep Purple in a double bill. They were mixed too loud and it actually affected the clarity of the vocals. Deep Purple also had basically no slower songs… all rockers with crazy chops solos. After a while these bled into each other.
EQing well can often fix perceived loudness issues, roll some tone on the guitar, for example, but nothing fixes solos going on too long or a poor sequence of tunes.
All i know is , if you aint a tribute band , you have play what women like . And women like to dance .
Many things can keep people dancing. A very fast paced part with an awesome solo can result in a great circle pit. Have a softer/build up moment before said part and you can cue the audience for a wall of death, that hits as soon as a rapid part begins. Slower, chuggy parts get people doing regular pushing/bouncing pits, that turn into cluster pits or circle pits when the music picks up. Dynamics is key. Your music has to be captivating to the audience and to get their attention, hit them by surprise, so when that solo part hits it hits hard and the wall of death charges.
This video is completely focused on wedding-like cover gigs, not even loosely related to music as an art form.
Let me put it this way, Mr. Artist… EVERY symphony orchestra is a cover band. You think you're more of an artist than them?
I'm sorry but I won't take the time to explain again how wrong-headed that is. maybe read some of the other replies to other more or less similar comments below.. If art falls in the forest and nobody hears it, does it make a sound?
@@callmeal3017 LOL! Did I ask for an explanation?
@@Mooseboy08I detect no pretentiousness in his comment. He's stating a fact. This video is for wedding minstrels, not orchestras. The advice doesn't apply to groups who write their own music.
@@Mooseboy08I think a person who writes and performs their own music is an artist and anyone who strictly plays other peoples music is just a musician. If you can do some really good tracings of Raphael paintings, does that make you a painter?
Hey Terrance love you man. Can you do a video on confidence affecting delivery performance .
As a DJ, I can confirm all these are true.
A lot of my corporate gigs, I'm playing in between the bands sets. Unless the band gets people up and dancing it looks terrible if the DJ can.
All of this is about Professionalism as a musician and Artist, listening to this man will make you Better and turn you into a Professional, !!!!
Thank him and , I wish there were more people like him spreading this knowledge 😊😊
I'm presuming this content is more applicable to function / covers bands
The thing about people deciding if they like you quickly made me think of whether your music is genre-appropriate for a given event. In North America things are apparently more... elastic, especially nowadays, so SOAD touring as a support for Slayer didn't rise an eyebrow over there back in the 90s. But when SOAD was playing their 1st gig in Poland, in the 90s, as a support for Slayer... whoever allowed for that to happen should have been fired. Thrash metal heads of the time in the region were extremely orthodox in their tastes and hated on anything that wouldn't be thrash metal, maybe some death metal, some black metal and some heavy metal would get a pass, but they'd be very selective about it. And SOAD was like something from another planet to them, that got them booed off the stage, whistled at, food thrown at them - in the middle of the 1st song. The style (both looks wise as well as musically) was just too much of a wildly incompatible gap. It almost caused a riot with people being at the verge of breaking out with violence. Sadly, because of this experience, SOAD would then avoid gigging in Poland for the next 20 years... because they couldn't understand why this happened to them, didn't get the cultural difference why they were not an appropriate supporting act to a headliner like Slayer if in America this works well. Had they come to a different kind of a gig with a different headliner, or better yet, attend a festival like the Polish Woodstock (now renamed Pol'and'Rock), they would have had a totally different experience.
In my experience, it’s the bass guitar, coupled with a very loud kick drum that causes the mix to be ruined. The guitarist will subsequently turn up to be heard over all that low end, causing too much stage volume. Unfortunately a lot of sound engineers are hearing impaired and will crank the low end of the mix to the point where it’s painful for the audience. I agree a too loud guitar can be annoying, but ANY instrument that’s not sitting in a mix correctly can ruin a band’s sound.
Depends on the venue If i'm going to see a band in a concert i expect a ripping solo like Eddi vanhalens eruption or Neil Pearts yyz and newer.
I guess it depends on the type of music. When songs sound exactly like the record without a bit of improvisation I might as well save my money and stay home to listen to the record. It depends on what you mean about long solos, as a rock fan I enjoy a reasonable guitar solo. I don’t need to dance but I do need to groove to the music. Finally, I like loud music as long as it’s not distorted.
Wisdom! I think the important point here is showmanship. It's not all about the music it's about presentation and connecting with the audience! It's about CRAFTSMANSHIP!
I have a 10-piece Motown Revue band in a region that tends towards a Blues sensibility. We have several musicians who will solo between themselves for extended periods of time (keys, sax, trumpet, guitar). The audience still dances because we keep the groove going.
That's the thing, don't lose the groove. Or, part way through the solo the drummer changes something that keeps it interesting or the rhythm section does a breakdown which makes the solo shine again just at the joint where it might have started to grate.
The only time I do a real solo spot, it to fill time on the final song. Unless it’s an integral part of the song, keep it simple
I want to perform my instrumental speed/power/prog metal music in small local venues. I'm introverted, so I don't have much hope in a career as a musician. What can I get doing so?
How about prog, post-rock, experimental, ambient and classical music concerts? :-)
Years ago I went to see a Led Zeppelin concert.. I have all their albums. Before I went to see them the Radio DJs and the press were ragging on them. I couldn't figure out why until I went to see them. I was about 20 feet from the stage. It turns out they couldn't produce the studio sound on the road. They sounded like a garage band. They did a lot of tricks to get that studio sound. I read that they would go out of the studio and record in the hallway. When you heard them on the radio, it sounded like the DJ wasn't paying attention, because the next song would come on right away. Well it turns out they didn't put any breaks on the album. one track runs into the next track. I think finally they (radio DJs) put them on carts. Another thing I hate is when singers want you to do their job. They point the mike at you and tell you to sing. I pay all this money, now I have to sing. Diana Ross does this at her concerts. The jazz guys are the best. They never disappoint. Although I hated it when Miles Davis would turn his back to the audience. RIP
I have said all of this for years! It might change in certain scenarios like jazz or certain rock songs, but nonetheless a band has to connect with the audience on THEIR level. If not, a band or musician can't complain as to why they don't have a large following.
Whether or not a piece of music makes me want to dance has to do with how the rhythm is constructed and how the musicians play it. Dance music is constructed. We learn this from hearing Fred Wesley talk about how funk is written. If people aren't dancing then either the music is fundamentally not danceable, or you're not playing it right. Now, if the most important thing for an audience is familiarity, then (a) that's really sad, and (b) personally, I'd be looking to do something else for a living.
What about the 1st principle if you are not a cover band and you are just kinda unknown and playing original songs?
I agree with everything mentioned here. Professionalism and focus tempered with being a good showman
My main gripe: the ever growing trend of brand level-Artist's bands using backing tracks in the effort to cut costs.( However, I'm sure that decision is made by Corporate) Live used to be LIVE 😮!
The information you give on this channel is very useful for the young musicians of today's world, otherwise for people like me its the absolute confirmation that its time to quiet my dreams and only keep playing guitar for my own improvement, I never gonna be a real musician🙄
Everything has become too competitive, no more freedom and passion for being creative, maybe I m just too old for this thing😄
The idea that some instruments have a frequency that is irritating to the ear is a new one on me. As well as the guitar, what other instruments fall into that category?
Some keyboard sounds are really shrill, and some horns when too loud can be irritating
As a harmonica player myself…
sit front center at a small jazz show w a trumpet player in your face. Could be anything too loud and focused tho. Sub bass, guitar, shrill vocals etc. Depends on the space, the players, the instruments, the soundman, the pa, the stage, and your location to all the above. Very common that live music is unbalanced. Another prob is things you can barely hear. Live sound is not ideal like a studio.
Cut that 4K
Anything in the drive thru restaurant speaker range. Watch your mids, and don’t overcrowd frequencies
You said dancing is synonymous with fun , it's also synonymous with alcohol and drugs ,
Definitely knowing your audience. Watching a guy the other day at the beach. Crowd's average age was probably over 50 of non-European folks. the guy played some singer-songwriter stuff and got good response, then, inexplicably, started playing and singing Portuguese music and the sound was way too loud. By his first break the crowd was gone.
no long solos? you must not have gone to a Rush concert...thats why we go
A Neil Peart solo was never long enough. 😊
Good video. Thank you.
Recently at a small restaurant 1 year anniversary. So they hired a band of locals. They geared up like they where playing to a crowd of 3-400.
Not 50-75 in a small area. I been in biz 25 years. Told wife it’s gonna be loud AF cuz they are even micing the kick drum
Should have been just Keys and Vox and everything else come off the stage.
It was painful.
I think Counting Crows is a good example of the music is different. The studio recordings are great, even the live music is good but the vocals are another story.
I am a different type of a guitar player. I am a solo melodic instrumental guitarist. I am not a one who goes out and plays to make a bunch of noise. I am one who is easy-going and I do solo instrumental pieces of music a lot of people slow dance to my music. I do songs like stairway to Heaven hotel California and a few Beatles songs. I have a beautiful song collection that I do. Most people like me because I am not radical. I’m laid-back and I’m very easy-going all except I do is stand on stage where they guitar in my hand and never sing, but play beautiful solo instrumental pieces much about like what Chad Atkins would do, although he is my idol guitarist. I don’t even compare myself to him. He was an amazing guitarist. But for playing since 1974 and being 71 now with 50 years of experience, I don’t feel I do too bad. I know people like me because they tip me very well. But I have not played out and quite a while because Covid has pretty well ruined the music industry for live entertainment. Maybe I can get back out there again soon I love your video. You have good advice and I totally agree with you. have a great day.👍👍❤️😄🎸🎼🎵🎶🎸👍❤️
What kind of band plays “familiar songs” if they aren’t playing stadium shows?
Ummm…a cover band. Basically 90% of all working acts.
Any band that someone's intentionally going to see. Regardless of the size of the show, if the band is known and tickets are sold on the basis of the band's name then the majority of those attending expect to hear the big hits.
Only exception is if it's specifically promoted as something else. Eg they're performing an entire album, in order, live or they're specifically playing songs that weren't released as singles. Etc. But if it's just a generic concert promoted purely on the strength of the band name then play the big hits yes, that's what everyone's expecting and the surest way to disappoint is to not deliver what's expected.
@@wulf67 i never see cover acts. 99% of the show listings i see are for original music.
@@whatwedointheshadows3349 …and you’re not familiar with any of their music? Or have you only attended stadium shows?
On top of the points you mentioned, two rules I have for my band is no tuning without muting and no between song noodling. I really hate both of those things when I see a band. Just comes off unprofessional.
Had a guitarist that played a crate blue voodoo through a 4x12 cab always wide open.. I still have hearing damage from that few gigs
I guess this is for more mainstream audiences, I go to shows in my local music scene (rock) and almost none of these apply lmao.
I like when bands play their own interpretations of songs. Playing it exactly like the record is boring. You might as well hire a DJ. I like long solos. As long as the they are well constructed and exciting.
The long solo is difficult situation to navigate to where it’s too much, if the solo is in the middle of song, and they are dancing double the solo and or maybe a extra 8 or 12 and that’s it, because after awhile you will lose them, but keep em dancing so they will get thirsty and buy more drinks
While I agree with some of this, but I'll have to disagree on the soloing..ei. the Allman Brothers / Santana/ the grateful Dead.. what was solos or what people go to hear sometimes you know..
Most of what you're saying is geared towards a cover / party band. Original bands don't have to pander to that.
I'll take a Grateful Dead cover band over dead & company any day of the week!
If not playing too loud is such a well known rule, why do ALL bands do it? Is it because musicians have impaired hearing due to all the loud music they are often exposed to? Is it because the musicians are behind the speakers and can't hear how loud the music is to the audience? I always wear ear plugs (the orange kind you can buy by the container at Home Depot) and I can hear the music and the vocals just fine. That tells you how loud the music actually is.
Yes, it's because they're not hearing what we are hearing on the other side of the speakers.
Variation on "Long solos": bass solo, any length. 🤣
I've actually had success with playing songs differently than the original versions - in some cases. We old ZZ Top pretty close to the record but our Patsy Cline song sounds like an all male three piece, but it works. I wouldn't try to get away with that all night.
For broader application, #3 could also be, "No groove killers".
”Too Loud”
LEMMY WANTS TO KNOW YOUR LOCATION
New subscriber. You - sir - are doing a great service here. Much appreciated! 😀
Read your audience!
There are only certain bands which can play differant versions of their popular songs. Grateful Dead and TOOL come to mind, but that's what their fans have come to expect.
Playing songs differently to the record, including adding sections.