Brass Knuckles
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 11 мар 2022
- Here's a brief intro to brass knuckles from our EDC download. While there is no doubting their devastating potential, they are not magic bullets and will amplify good punching technique as much as they will worsen the effects of poor technique. Given their widespread illegality, are they really worth the risk?
To view the full download, please visit:
combatprofessor.uscreen.io/pr...
![Rob49 - On Dat Money (with Cardi B) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fTFS58mHJh8/mqdefault.jpg)
The information past the brass knuckles was super helpful. I studied traditional Okinawan martial arts for years and I did not even know about everything you shared. 👍🏻
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for watching.
This video was outstanding! I was not expecting all the history! Really cool, thanks for sharing all of that!
Thanks for watching
Great information. Nice tour of variations. Much appreciated, Kevin.
Thanks for watching. I really appreciate it.
Excellent well thought out discussion of knuckles.
Thanks for watching.
an awesome teacher you are, Sir
Thanks for watching.
I know a guy attacked by a guy using a padlock as a brass knuckle. During the fight the defender did a standing armlock but lost his footing and fell fracturing the aggressors elbow enough that the aggressors arm had to be amputated.
Ouch both ways. Padlocks a really powerful improvised weapons and yes a bad arm break can be catastrophic
Excellent video! Well done on this.
Thanks for watching.
Excellent video Kevin 👌👍
Thanks for watching. I appreciate it.
I think the whole idea with brass knuckles is you only need one or two good hits. Also, your palm being a little bit red is gonna be a lot less painful than having a fractured and bloodied face. If you hit someone in the face with brass knuckles you're gonna do damage to yourself but you'll likely do more damage to them
Definitely. They can just go wrong easily.. They are tiny little levers between your fingers if you swing full force and they shift they can break your own hand. I’ve encountered a number of people who have had this happen. People think they’re this magic bullet that replaces the skill to punch. You still need to have great striking mechanics and even then you’re introducing a variable that can work against you. One old timer I know that used them regularly said it best: the key is to give a short stamping punch with them. , never a wild swing. Ultimately I think they’re more trouble than they’re worth. If you get caught with a pair in most areas you’re looking at a charge. There is no valid reason to carry them other than to smash someone in the face and that will get you in trouble . We would catch guys with pocket knives going into the club and sometimes the cops would confiscate and let them go with a warning. Brass knuckles always ended up with handcuffs.
i mean you can fracture your hand if u throw a lousy punch and hit someone in the forehead, and me im eating a forehead punch any day but brass knuckles is a different story.
Absolutely. You can still fracture your hand or wrist with knuckles but you’ll damage anything you hit. The biggest danger is that they can be considered a lethal weapon so you massively increase the legal risks when defending yourself
@@systemacanada The legal issue is probably the more serious of them all ,but any strike with a good fitted Knuckle Duster and it a crack ,brake or worse. I personally think they are great to own and the heavier they are the better for shadow boxing practice, or throwing your 1000 punches a day drills.
I don't recommend them for fighting but they are a excellent self defense weapon and equalizer. 🥊🥊
ruclips.net/video/suQB5WrKIjQ/видео.html
Amplified Power X 20
I do a paracord wrap around the palm plate which helps soften the hard edges and absorbs about 90% of the force.
Very smart. That’s a great fix
I found that using some deerskin leather, wrapped around handles helps cushion the blow on your end and softens some of the edges. I got a matching set of skull knockers for two fingers and wrapped them. I used to use scrap metal and bolts. The skull knockers are much nicer...
That’s a great idea. I’ve seen some of the more deluxe pairs with padding and thin layers of leather. I know even a thin glove makes a huge difference.
The best way to hold knuckles, especially if they are thin in thickness, is to put the undulations right above the Falange then to press into the palm brace with the fingertips, this way you are pulling against the force that will push the knuckles into your webbing.
Tuck the palm brace as far into the palm of the hand and pull the undulations downward to the Falange of the knuckles.
This will limit the amount of force that will rock the knuckles back and cause pain and you can strike harder this way.
Also you don’t want to punch as hard as you can anyway you only need a light jab or medium jab to cause a lot of damage especially if you hit the eyebrow or cheekbone.
I favour that grip as well, but with solid knuckles like these there is no phalange hole in the middle so it’s not very stable. When there is a palm hole or an “I” frame handle that’s a great grip.
Kamagong Knuckles is also a good choice, Kamagong is the filipino term for Iron wood.
But yeah, I'm also an advocate on flashlight for self defense or as a self defense tool.
Great video! Subscribed
Thanks for watching.
Love seeing the tekko
Love them as well
@@systemacanada My sensei is a huge fan of them. Wow, just realized I haven't made a tekko video yet. Will have to at some point. But I have made (checks) 56 sap videos, LOL. BTW, I posted one of your sap videos on the main FB group I'm a part of (collectors, makers, etc.).
@@ObjectHistory nice. Thanks very much.
thank you
Thanks for watching.
Would having regular knit gloves on the hand you’ll use for brass knuckles make the impact on the palm from the knuckles lighter or would it be the same as having them off? And now that Im thinking of it I think it would slide more towards the knuckles every impact. But hey I’ll try it out when mine come and let you guys know. Still would be great for someone to still tell me pls lol
Even a thin pair of gloves makes a massive difference. You feel almost nothing. The key is to just modify your lunch. With knuckles you don’t need to follow throw as much. Keep your punches shorter and sharper and that will usually be enough Tom protect your hand even without a glove.
Glad to see someone actually using them properly. Really cool video.
What do you think about the tactical whip from stinger ?
I love flexible weapons. It’s about as portable as they can make it but I’m it sure how practical it would be for edc.
So I just got my first set of brass knuckles, they are indeed brass. Thank you Kevin for this informative video. I never even thought about placing them before the second knuckle. addressing the palm irritation from repeated blows, how many brass hits can a person withstand before going down?
Working the door I saw them used three times -every time it was a single shot. They destroy the face , but even to the body they were enough to end things quickly. I can’t imagine the damage multiple hits would do. It would be life altering if not ending if you knew what you were doing.
There are quite a few videos of brawls with them on. Like anything else if you don’t know how to strike well, the fight will linger
www.kiro7.com/video/archive/brass-knuckles-beatdown-caught-camera/4BQVCOO6H2SFDD2B4J6A34HAOQ/
Everyone I saw use them were using straight, clean shots-crosses to the face, and one tight hook to the body I in the third case . One old timer I trained with use to use them regularly. He said he kept his hits short -like stamping a passport.
couldnt find the video how you do the training brass knuckles
The video isn’t on brass knuckles it’s in EDC. Brass knuckles is just one of many sections and it’s among my least prescribed because they are so illegal in most parts of the world and you can get comparable effects with more legal options . The link for the video is in the description though .
damn i was a bout to order some knuckles online, but now i think ill just get a flashlight instead. thank you
It’s a far safer option
What’s the story behind the danish police insignia on your wall?
Great video as always
A gift from a danish cop I taught.
I read an account where one has to wear gloves first before putting on the knuckles. would that make any difference?
Absolutely. Even a thin glove makes a huge difference. It won’t change the illegality or legal consequences of using them of course but it will protect your hand
❤️❤️👍👍
Thanks for watching.
Great lecture, in the academic sense. Ever consider a hoplology degree?
Thanks John. No not formally but that’s a main focus in my own research.
Do you have knowledge about self defense against radiation and fallout?
Nothing exceptional.
Thrusty content👌🏻
I prefer to do bare knuckles planks on a wooden floor
Why don't you wrap the brass knuckle's places of contact with your hands in foam with tape to minimiza the side effect on your hand...I can tell you that just by adding a little foam wrapped in duck tape it makes a big difference on the hand allowing for a more aggressive handling and application without concerns for personal injuries.
You definitely could. It gets cold here so people also wear gloves much of the year which would make it more comfortable. It’s definitely important to get a pair that fit you well. I used to have an actual brass pair and they are far superior. The g 10 and plastic ones are often poorly designed in my experience.
I have no experience using knuckles. But to me it looks like you're doing more damage with less power using the knuckles. And from what I read it seems most people go down from just one or two hits with brass knuckles. Interesting video. Thanks
Absolutely. Just control to power of your strikes to avoid injuring yourself, make sure you know how to punch without then, and check you local laws because in most places you will get a criminal charge even in cases where you’re justified in defending yourself .
These are obviously not a great option. But I live in canada and carrying anything for self defense is illegal, including knives. You'll get in trouble no matter what you carry if it's anything resembling a weapon.
I don't train punching on hard material or even do more serious fights, I only spar and train on bags so i own a pair as im not used to punching hard objects and would likely break my hand in a real fight. The purpose of brass knuckles is to be able to take out a guy with few hits, usually when you're cornered, allows you to throw shorter, faster but less powerful hits but they do twice the damage and the knuckles take up very little space. You can also do various paracord wraps to make them stay in place better.
In Canada knives are a much bigger deal as theyre use in any attack is considered murderous intent, one man even got sent to prison for stabbing an intruder with the intruders own knife, he had broken in and stabbed the man in his sleep.
I don't carry these normally but if I ever felt like I might be jumped by multiple people (especially the kind who cant necessarily go to the police), I definitely would carry them.
Tactical flashlights and pens are fully legal and just as powerful. A single shot with a flashlight was usually enough when I worked the door. I also live in Canada. There are still options.
Man Canada doesn't sound like a fun place to live
As some others already pointed out: there are two ways to wear brass knuckles. And the way you show here is more or less the "wrong" way. Its not only another option: its the better option to have the part, that gets in contact with the opponent, rest between first and second row of knuckles and the palmrest of the knuckles duster on the upper part of the Hand, not on the palm itself or the lower part of the hand, where the thump starts. I have the feeling your knuckle duster is also bad designed: the distance between the "thorns" and the palm rest is too far.
It’s a terrible design. It lacks the mid phalange hole to correctly close your fist and because it’s g-10 and not brass, there is no heft, so wearing them the alternative way doesn’t hold. The goal of this video is not to promote an illegal weapon. It’s to discourage the allure. The criminal penalty in most places just makes the carry and use not worth the risk. These are the prevalent variety here in the clubs because they’re freely available on Amazon etc. even the one and two knuckle varieties sit better than the g 10a but these are popular because they are easier to make, a fraction of the cost, and escape metal detection.
@@systemacanada They are illegal here in Germany. No matter which material they are made of. And I agree: pretty good decision to make them illegal.
@@scheisstag when o was a bouncer I saw the damage a solid brass pair creates. They completely destroy a face and carry a huge risk of killing. Not to be used lightly.
Unless you've been hit with brass knuckles, you can't really comment on the effectiveness. I've seen guys hit in the face with BK and it's devastating. I have carried them for years, and have used them several times in a confrontation, they are destructive. And before you try to talk shit, I am a combat Marine, 6'8" 350lbs, several tours between Iraq and Afghanistan, and I trained in Krav Maga, so I have experience with weapons and hand to hand.
I’ve seen them used plenty when I was working the door. They were very popular in the clubs. There is no question they can cause damage. I’m simply saying I think they’re hugely overrated. Given that they’re illegal in most areas I don’t think they’re worth the risk and there are a dozens things I’d carry before these. As I’ve said below, to each their own. If you’ve found something that works for you, that’s all that matters.
I know it’s late but I have to comment. I’ve watched a couple of your videos now and I need to mention that you don’t know how to correctly use brass knuckles - it is a very different mechanism to throwing an ordinary punch. When worn correctly you don’t need to throw full blooded left hooks or right crosses - you will literally kill someone. A looping style jab will be more than enough, one punch thrown correctly, and it doesn’t have to be very hard, and the fight is over. And if worn in the correct spot you will not hurt your hand at all, even if you are feeling murderous and punch as hard as you can.
Your criticisms are based on incorrect examples of usage, the limitations that you mention in this video would quite simply not exist if the brass knuckles are used and worn correctly. They are a truly incredible invention.
Basically brass knuckles are not good for self defense clearly, what ever used afterwards would be a better self defense tool
Hello mate good detailed video but when your talking about the damage the tool can do to the user i think you have thought too much about this. All you would need to do in a defence situation is tap the opponent and they are missing a nose or a jaw bone unless your fighting someone made of titanium 😂
Absolutely. I’m was talking more from the perspective of these as a magic wax-they are too often promoted as a replacement for training and if you don’t know how to hit this can hurt you in the process. For all the hassle of their illegality (in most parts of the world) I just feel there are more effective alternatives.
Yes very true maybe i misunderstood again great video.
You have to use them between your first and second knuckle from your fingernail. That lessens considerably the impact transfer to the palm. If you wear em like you did in video with them up between your 2nd & 3rd knuckle you will hurt your hand. It is a different fighting style using hooks/cross overs and swiping jabs. Lol. Expert not.
There are two basic ways to wear them: first or second phalange. The low wear you are describing favours hooking hits but can deform the wrist a little and needs modification from conventional boxing. People that favour jabs and crosses will tend to wear them higher. There is risk in both but if the knuckles are suited to your hand and the fit is snug, both are strong grips. Again my point here is not to say knuckles don’t work. This is from a download on EDC. My main points are that any item you carry is not a magic bullet. Knuckles assume you have footwork and head movement and correct striking mechanics and then the ability to modify them to the hand fitting. If you are a noob thinking that carrying this will help you they are more likely to hurt your more than help you. More importantly they are illegal in most areas so for the risk they carry they’re just not worth it. If you’re a seasoned street thug looking to cause irresponsible amounts of head trauma then yes they’re amazing. But for a civilian looking for an edc I think they’re low on the list.
@@systemacanada
You were wearing them wrong Kevin. Plus the ones you used were what 5-6 ounce tops? Try a 1, 1.5, or 2 pound brass knuckles. lol. Worn correctly and used correctly very effective old weapon.
@@saturnreturns613 again there are two ways to wear them. For certain, heavier pairs are more damaging but again the arguments about illegality vs benefit still stands. You can cause the same damage with far more legal items so I just don’t think they’re worth it and whether or not they are heavier they still presume skill. People asking me if they’re good for self defense are rarely experienced fighters-they are smaller novices looking for an advantage and I maintain these are not a good idea for them. Moreover I’m using g10 ones which are lighter because they tend to be more legal in more areas by operating in the grey zone if not being metal and they are the ones I most commonly get questions regarding. The non metal ones tend to have no palm holes for the fingers to curl into like you would have with a metal hand fitting so wearing them below the mid knuckle is very uncomfortable.
@@systemacanada
Robbie Dalton 650 gram brass knucks. ;).
@@saturnreturns613 you’d better like having a bunk mate if you use those in Canada lol
👉I find it hard to understand how the tekkō is superior to the brass knuckle, once you’re using a brass knuckle as a tekkō. The same applies to the kubotan: if you strike with the lower and upper sides of the brass knuckles, you get the same result as with a kubotan. So it’s more a question of how you use your brass knuckles. The problem with the various brass knuckle substitutes presented here is that they all require greater mastery of fighting techniques. In that case, of course they’re more effective. But for a person who has not mastered any fighting technique and who has to defend himself from an attack, using a brass knuckle will in any case improve the awkward blows he can deliver to his attacker. Why would the brass knuckles rotate in the hand and not the tekkō? Obviously, the tekkō rotates even more easily, because there's nothing holding it in place.
The tekko is much heavier and offers the hand more space but it’s not practical for edc of course. It’s not meant for modern carry. The kubotan is legal is most places whereas knuckles are generally expressly forbidden but yes you can use knuckles in a similar manner . The difference is the potential legal ramifications . For me a flashlight is the perfect balance of legality and practicality
Love the vidieo but u miss the supriss. Of nucull dusters. The opnent or the victum nevr sees nucul dusters in reel life. The victum gets to the back of the head at full 100% not cool. And the other that lives on the streets also . Uses supriss as well . Maby asking 4 chang or a smoke I lites out. Its not how hard the vic gets hit but were.
There is no denying brass knuckles cause damage but legally they’re a huge risk. I’m not speaking here to a trained person who is willing to face the legal risk. I’m speaking to the layperson who is looking for a quick fix. If you aren’t skilled at fighting and don’t know how to punch, knuckles aren’t going to magically make you better and given how illegal they are, I think they’re overrated for an everyday self defense wrap on.
If you can inflict more damage with less energy with brass knuckles, I think that's the whole point - to use what you have and enhance it with use of a weapon, and that weapon being the brass knuckles. Also, I know that if you're creating a significant amount of damage to someone's face; broken teeth, broken eye socket, or just leaving it a torn and bloody mess, then whatever "red marks" or minor bruising you may end up with on the palm of your hand, the trade-off is well worth it.
Are brass knuckles supposed to be comfortable to use? From everything I've heard and experienced, absolutely not. Are they supposed to create more damage to your opponent by focusing the power you possess or apply to particularly vulnerable areas such as the face and neck? From what I've seen and clearing demonstrated by your video as well as many others, then yes, that's their purpose.
Those people that believe brass knuckles are the magic end-all punching tool that give you fists of steel (or brass), are in for a rude surprise when they go all in on that first solid punch.
Brass knuckles can hurt, but I promise you they will hurt your opponent much, much more than they will hurt you.
Disclaimer: I do not condone the use of brass knuckles in a fight nor have I ever used them in a real fight. That would be silly......This comment is for entertainment purposes only.
Well said
I never really understood why people liked brass knuckles so much. Yes, they add some mass to the punch, and they can accentuate force with spikes, but they always sit in an odd spot for me. I'd rather use a sturdy pen, or a bicycle chain, or even a stamped sheet spoon with the handle protruding from between my fingers (probably wrapped in cloth), a cobblestone in a handbag, or whatever. All of them can do more damage and are cheaper or less conspicuous. Plus, brass knuckles are not really protecting the hands (unlike quartz gloves, or medieval armored gloves), they feel awkward in the hand and you can neither grab something else nor just drop them...
Lastly, a pepper spray or electro shocker, or baton sit more between a fist and a knife, or a gun than brass knuckles ever will. They do not have the same fear factor as some more flashy weapons, but they are still too damaging to be considered a less-lethal weapon, while at the same time do not do enough damage, or give enough of an advantage compared to other weapons.
Boy, u talking shit. Learn how to use the Brass Knuckles and you can break all the bones of the face of a person. I heard a history of a guys eye poppin out from a Brass Knuckles hit. A rule to use it is to only hit the arms, never the face(cuz u can kill a person). Only hit the face in a very very seriously situation
@@FrantzVissarionovitch says the troll with 5 subscribers and a disguise. Namaste
You can use it properly if you are attacked by one person. Sometimes it can be a good advantage when you are facing multiple untrained criminals. You can knock out at least one.
I’m here because this is the 3rd time someone broke into my car or vandalized my car.
1. First time, they stole my rims, left the car on bricks
2 and 3. Someone broke in and stole my shit. All within this year. I’m pissed af.
Really sorry to hear about that. I deeply understand the rage you must be feeling. Brass knuckles would not be the best solution. They can be beneficial if you have good boxing mechanics, but if you're not well versed in footwork and head movement, the benefits are outweighed by the legal risks. There are far more legal alternatives like a tactical flashlight (I have quite a few videos on the topic). Flashlights have the added advantage of being able to potentially scare someone off from a distance, blind someone and disorient them up close and they can be used in a more primal hammer fist action to stab and spike an opponent and massively multiple your damage.
Also, any weapon doesn't check out basic awareness and self defense skills. It's always best to invest in an alarm for the car, motion sensor lights around the area where it is parked and to call the police. As frustrating as it is, interrupting a burglary can be a good way to get injured or worse. I would strongly recommend seeking out a practical self defense class. If you need suggestions just message me and if nothing else I can suggest a host of videos to watch.
@@systemacanada yes, you are probably right. It happened again last night . I was still pretty angry when I commented that.
I continued to do more research and yeah, I get what you’re saying. I just know I’m not the strongest person out there, so I thought something like brass knuckles is the solution.
@@vanessamcgrew4486 I get it. The important thing is that you stay safe first. The next step is doing very thing you can to safely improve the security of your car. Is there anything you can think of that might decrease the likelihood of your car being targeted?
That pillow case doesn't look like it's displaying Last jedi or Rise of Skywalker, so... 3rd or 4th worst Star Wars movie, tops. The entire Disney trilogy should be considered a direct attack against worldwide pop culture.
The pillow case deserves a slow death like those films
@@systemacanada with a millimeter sized karambit! And thumb screws! And (hold on, let me Google torture devices...) and iron maiden.
@@lincolnpascual lol
Maybe I have special hands or better knucks, but I can swing away with mine with no fear or hand injury. That said, it I hit someone that hard with them they would die. Like a sap, quick 30ish% hits drops people left and right. I do have smaller hands, maybe that's working for me? I'm in no way saying your experience isn't real, but for me I can go much harder with the knucks before it hurts my hands more than bare. Those strike you're throwing on the board would absolutely destroy a human. Also though, show me how you can damage concrete with your bare hands? You're kinda talking trash when you just showed how you can hit harder with more damage to target with knucks than without? Like everyone else who apparently can't understand how knucks work, it comes across like you're just trying to come up with a topic for a video. If you made one about how well they work, people who know would just say yes, and?
I’m not saying they don’t work. I’m addressing the average concern for a self defense weapon for the average person. If you’re well trained, everything works. For the layperson hoping for a simple odds amplifier, I think there are simpler alternatives. A lot of people don’t know how to punch well and adding knuckles to the mix is risky. Also, knuckles have a huge legal consequence in a lot of areas so something like a flashlight is easier to justify and almost as destructive. By all means if you love knuckles and the law support their use where you are that’s amazing. I just feel they are very hyped and not worth the risk for most people.
Can someone answer me why my little finger hurts when I punch with brass knuckles? I tried to wear them in every possible way and I was training with it but it always put alot of pressure on my finger... Are my brass knuckles not good or what?
It's because the focus of your brass knuckles does not reach the thumb
It’s because your hand might be too small for the knuckles
@@Vx3313 Probably, I sold them lmao
Wear them just below the knuckles, not above, and don’t hit as hard as you can. If I can punch solid wood and “mishit” without any discomfort then I feel like you’re holding them wrong.
Also, if you’ve been in a street fight you’ll know a little discomfort in your palm beats busted up knuckles.
And you don’t need nearly as much power with knuckles. Bone and flesh hitting bone and flesh requires WAY more force to deliver the same amount of damage as brass on bone/flesh.
I completely disagree with your analysis. Your take is essentially “when you use it wrong it can be uncomfortable even though you’ll have completely obliterated your opponents face and they won’t be able to eat for several weeks, and had you done that without brass knuckles you’d probably break your hand”
The BIGGEST mistake people make when discussing brass knuckles is assuming they’re a boxing tool or something you’d use to throw traditional punches. If you had a rock in your hand you wouldn’t be boxing your opponent with it, the weapon requires a different strategy. Same goes for knuckles. If you think of it more as a chunk of metal to hit someone with instead of something to throw traditional punches with then it’s not hard to find an effective grip that you can strike with
I’m evaluating them objectively from a cost vs value perspective I agree with what you’ve said but given the legal risk they carry I just feel they’re over-hyped. There are equally destructive options that won’t carry the same legal consequence. If they are legal where you are then yes they have value but in most places they’re not worth the risk. I personally don’t like the under knuckle Irish position but I know a lot of people like it. I also don’t agree that you need to volunteer to hurt yourself to hurt another. I bounced a long time and I couldn’t afford to volunteer to carry accumulating injuries every night.
@@systemacanadaI’d just fight it in court if it became an issue. How can the state allow someone to bash someone with 1 hunk of metal in self-defense but not another? Seems like that would be blatantly unconstitutional. They can’t allow you to bash someone with a mag lite but not brass knuckles, that’s absurd
@@Wyklepheph in Canada if an item is specifically mentioned in the criminal code as knuckles are, there is no wiggle room. There is no precedence of people winning. It can make justified self defense unjustifiable force. Same in Europe. Something that is not intended to be a weapon like a flashlight gives you more wiggle room. A found improvised weapon even more, because intention plays a big role-it’s the difference between manslaughter and murder even in the US. As an individual you have a luxury of holding views that I can’t as an instructor, because casual expression for me establishes long term belief and
Motive, so while I can agree with your points , the law and this platform for that matter, will treat me poorly if I trumpet them . That’s what comment sections are for.
BTW: Indians had their own version of the teko in the shape of a ring worn on the wrist or hat. They could quickly switch between using it and using their empty hand, e.g. to pick up a better weapon, or to grab the weapon arm, of the opponent. Plus, they could use it as a grappling aid.
PS: there's another weapon in India that is often compared to brass knuckles, though it has claws. AFAIK, it's less of an impact tool and more of a pain compliance tool in grappling. Otherwise, I don't see how to realistically use it.
There are a few variations. Chakrams and chakar are some of the most popular versions.
Youre actually not holding it correctly
This is just a segment. I address Irish and British carry in the full training. I'm aware that below the mid knuckle line is common as well. The argument for the alternate grip is that is reduces shock to the hand but it also massively deforms punching alignment. Either way, the argument remains the same: for the legal consequence you will get using these in most parts of the world, it's not worth the risk, and there are many other EDC items that are legal and sufficient force multipliers.