if the Bismarck broken out into the Atlantic after fighting the battle of the Denmark straight what type of measures would the British take with their convoy escorts how much damage with the Bismarck and flicked on Atlantic shipping and what type scram of battles the Bismarck fight 148
In your opinion, what would have happened if Rozhestvensky had been the admiral in charge of the 1st Pacific Squadron at the start of the Russo-Japanese War and Makarov in charge of the Second Pacific Squadron?
@@Drachinifel Will I ever succeed in bringing you round to accepting that Hoche doesn’t actually look all that bad. It’s only a matter of time now surely?
Assuming the French would have kept their ability to build beautiful tumblehome hotels until lets say the richelieus. Did you ever wonder, how a tumblehome > 35000t fast battleship would look like?
while we know of france's many failures from this era, but with how chaotic their design teams were they surely must have at some point unintentionally passed on a good idea, Right? Was there any known examples of French design (either unused varients of ships that got built historically or designs that never left the drawing board) that in hindsight would have been the preferable option for France?
There is a GORGEOUS model of this ship in the maritime museum in Paris, complete with elaborate hand-made torpedo nets. It’s an absolute must-see if you love pre-dreadnoughts (and you’re reading this, so I know you do!).
Warships in the pre-WWI era are very similar to the airplanes of the inter-war period; the designers had an idea of what they wanted to do, but hadn't discovered how to do it efficiently or elegantly, thus creating some of the most fascinating mechanical oddities the world will ever see.
Racing had a similar period in the 60s and 70s before computer aided design. "What if we used 6 wheels?" "What if we put wings 4 feet above the rest of the car?" Etc.
My absolute favourite French battleship of them all. I scratch-built her in 1/1500 because I simply had to have her on a table of battle at the local wargames club. A hideous beauty about her as built. Her copious boat cranes came in somewhat useful when the packet steamer Marechal Canrobert decided to wander into her path during Mediterranean Squadron gunnery exercises of Marseilles in 1892: The fleet was steaming in their then-favoured line abreast, with Hoche on the end of the line furthest seaward. Canrobert's captain tried to give his passengers a grand view of the formation, but lost track of his position in the gun-smoke, crossing in front of the Hoche. As Hoche appeared, Canrobert was immediately - and unavoidably - there off her starboard bow. Engines were thrown astern, but it was too late and Hoche rammed Canrobert; the mortally-wounded steamer was pushed along Hoche's side. With both ships lying stopped, Hoche's captain ordered all the boat cranes swung out and lashed the sinking steamer to her beam, giving time for all bar 7 of the people aboard to be taken off - Canrobert had been carrying 103. When the traces were cut, Canrobert lurched and plunged straight down to the bottom of the Gulf of Lions, where her wreck has been dived in recent years. Hoche comes out of this disaster quite well.
I love these French pre-dreadnoughts. Extreme tumble-home, wacky superstructure, odd armament... Just goes to show, you don't have to be sane to design warships for the Marine Nationale. But it helps.
It also shoes that even the oddest design can be made real if you invest enough time and money. In the end hoping that whomever your going up against doesn't surrender without a fight from dieing from laughter
I have to say that your channel is not only excellent maritime warfare source, but also an excellent source on learning English as a language to be loved 🙂🇨🇿❤🇬🇧
I love these old floating hotels. Much of the ship thinks it’s a submarine and what is on top is so busy that it looks like they put everything and the kitchen sink there. It’s not beautiful but it’s very interesting.
@@MoultrieGeek 🫡 *Mon Capitain, there are 2 inspectors for a surprise audit on the dock.* Government? Admiralty? Tell them I am busy and come back tomorrow!🥱 🫡 *Non...Guide de Michelin..* For Gods sake let them in and wake up the chef🫣😱 hurry up!🏃
You are so good at what you do! These videos are amazing, plus the French ships that you do are always just such a pleasure because they are so absurd. I missed about half your narration on this because I was laughing at the pictures. Please keep finding stuff like this and bringing it to word for people to see.
Monsieurs! This hotel has lousy food, cramped rooms and terrible service. on the plus side, it offers the best view of the French Navy. Mainly because you avoid watching the ship itself.
Reminds me of a joke. Q: Where can you have the best view of Paris? A: The top of le Tour Montparnasse. Q: Why is that? A: Is is the only place in the city where you cannot see le Tour Montparnasse.
Aww you didn't mention that the Officers mess ward room not only had a marble floor but also had marble fixtures, and she also had a champagne/wine storage cellar :D
The main principle of La Royale at the time was (like a lot of other navires) was to have the most possible type of ships as possible. But ours had a wine cellar. That makes me think that wine cellars should be taken into account as torpedoes protections even if it works, the whole crew died of cardiac arrest at the thinking of the holy bottles destroyed 😂 Must leave you, had to prepare a boeuf bourguignon for tomorrow 😁😋
The OG Hotel-At-Arms, mother of all fighting hotels. Her legacy will not be forgotten. Or forgiven, for that matter. I still can't decide if to count those as barbettes or as dramatically overbuilt modern turrets. But then, the designers probably couldn't make this decision as well.
Another French floating Hotel. BTW Congrats on publishing your first(of many I hope) books! This channel, writing a book and a little one, I can only assume you no longer sleep.
I need a 1/700 scale model of this ship for my shelf. I believe there is one available in resin, but possibly difficult to find in retail at the moment.
@@Rdeboer My pleasure, and in my experience Ebay are pretty responsive if there are ever any issues with the order, so I do trust them for all my naval purchases.
She’s an even match for the smaller ironclads of the same generation as her, but would struggle against her contemporaries. Against older vessels even if they be larger than her she’s sheer overkill, a testament to the rapid advance of technology and warship design in the 19th century.
That is well known, I suppose, but those 'funnily not-round' French calibers might be quite 'logical' in that French inch was 2.707 cm (vs British 2.54), and French 'old' pound was 489.5 grams (vs British 453.7) and there was in use for a short time (1812-1840) a metric pound of 500 grams.
Hoche suffered from being a political whipping boy, everyone stuck their fingers in the pie, resulting in her carrying every conceivable gadget the 19th century could provide. She had electric elevators in those heavy military masts. She had hydraulic lifts for her turrets, which had to be lifted out of their watertight brass rings to turn for targeting, and then be re-sat for firing. She had no wood on her main deck, it was either plain steel or possibly linoleum. She could make her designed speed, but was restricted to 12 knots due to stability issues. She was restricted from firing full broadsides due to stability issues. For all her flaws, and I personally rate this ship with the Kearsarges for "worst battleship ever", I love her, deeply. Such a wierdo...🖤
Ok, now I’m thinking that in my ‘Republic of Texas Navy’ alternate history universe the MN sailing Hoche off of the Texas coast was one of the atrocities that the Texans will never forgive the French for, and the reason Texas started modernizing its navy in the early 1900’s. 😂
I will also point out that Hoche despite her appearance isn’t actually a French pre-dreadnought. She’s part of the last quartet of French ironclads. Rough contemporaries to the admiral class barbette ships of the RN (although only HOCHE’S three half sisters in the Marceau class can be considered decent opponents to the admirals). Those in terms of superstructure and looks she definitely sets the standards from French construction practice moving forwards.
Nobody: You know, an excessive amount of tumblehome might be bad for all kinds of reasons, like poor reserve buoyancy, stability, and lack of deck space. French naval architects: I fart in your general direction!
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Pinned post for Q&A :)
if the Bismarck broken out into the Atlantic after fighting the battle of the Denmark straight what type of measures would the British take with their convoy escorts how much damage with the Bismarck and flicked on Atlantic shipping and what type scram of battles the Bismarck fight 148
In your opinion, what would have happened if Rozhestvensky had been the admiral in charge of the 1st Pacific Squadron at the start of the Russo-Japanese War and Makarov in charge of the Second Pacific Squadron?
@@Drachinifel
Will I ever succeed in bringing you round to accepting that Hoche doesn’t actually look all that bad.
It’s only a matter of time now surely?
Assuming the French would have kept their ability to build beautiful tumblehome hotels until lets say the richelieus. Did you ever wonder, how a tumblehome > 35000t fast battleship would look like?
while we know of france's many failures from this era, but with how chaotic their design teams were they surely must have at some point unintentionally passed on a good idea, Right? Was there any known examples of French design (either unused varients of ships that got built historically or designs that never left the drawing board) that in hindsight would have been the preferable option for France?
The era between ironclads and classic pre-dreadnoughts in the French fleet, is pure crazy steam punk.
This is the most 'steam punk' real world warship I have ever seen. 🧐
My first thought was the old GDW Role-Playing Game "Space:1889"
@@CS-zn6pp Wait till you see the Massena!
It also created easily the most beautiful warships in the era
@@argokarrus2731 What ship was the most beautiful warships of that era?
There is a GORGEOUS model of this ship in the maritime museum in Paris, complete with elaborate hand-made torpedo nets. It’s an absolute must-see if you love pre-dreadnoughts (and you’re reading this, so I know you do!).
Thanks for letting me know. I wonder if they have pictures of it on the internet. Again thanks for bringing this up.
Yes I *do* love pre-dreadnoughts - and I especially love this one!
Pierre: "I wish to sail in my château."
Louis: "You cannot do this! It is impossible."
Pierre: "Hold my champaign."
Louis: Sacre bleu!
Jacques: Wait guys... I'm coming with something better! (shows drawing of the battleship Carnot)
Warships in the pre-WWI era are very similar to the airplanes of the inter-war period; the designers had an idea of what they wanted to do, but hadn't discovered how to do it efficiently or elegantly, thus creating some of the most fascinating mechanical oddities the world will ever see.
Racing had a similar period in the 60s and 70s before computer aided design. "What if we used 6 wheels?" "What if we put wings 4 feet above the rest of the car?" Etc.
I see that.. "thing" and immediately that meme of Gunnery SGt Lee Ermey saying "What is that.. WHAT THE F^CK IS THAT" springs into my head.
“They’re paying for it, you eat it”.
Ça, c'est la France, monsieur.
Love the French battleships of the hotel era.
Ships like this make me happy.
Huh. Yeah, I hear you 🙂
Hooray! A french pre-Deadnought video!
"Monsieur! Huit chambres pour Deux ans, s'il vous plait!
Pour deux ans?! 🤯
@@krakenpots5693 Quand on aime, on ne compte pas !
@krakenpots5693 That was how a friend of mine announced himself at the desk of a hotel in Algeria. He was like that. It caused much laughter.
@@phaasch I can imagine!!!
War hotel?
Battlehotel?
Hotel-of-the-line?
Boat-elle?
Hotel of the Line is my favorite one.
AHH! Drach gets back to a Predreadnaught streak. It's definitely Christmas early
It needs some massive paddlewheels right under the wing-guns to complete the Ultimate Steampunk look..😆
Like the uss st louis with the historic camo in world of warships blitz
It'd look like a Dwarf ironclad, circa 1993...
My absolute favourite French battleship of them all. I scratch-built her in 1/1500 because I simply had to have her on a table of battle at the local wargames club. A hideous beauty about her as built.
Her copious boat cranes came in somewhat useful when the packet steamer Marechal Canrobert decided to wander into her path during Mediterranean Squadron gunnery exercises of Marseilles in 1892:
The fleet was steaming in their then-favoured line abreast, with Hoche on the end of the line furthest seaward. Canrobert's captain tried to give his passengers a grand view of the formation, but lost track of his position in the gun-smoke, crossing in front of the Hoche. As Hoche appeared, Canrobert was immediately - and unavoidably - there off her starboard bow. Engines were thrown astern, but it was too late and Hoche rammed Canrobert; the mortally-wounded steamer was pushed along Hoche's side. With both ships lying stopped, Hoche's captain ordered all the boat cranes swung out and lashed the sinking steamer to her beam, giving time for all bar 7 of the people aboard to be taken off - Canrobert had been carrying 103. When the traces were cut, Canrobert lurched and plunged straight down to the bottom of the Gulf of Lions, where her wreck has been dived in recent years.
Hoche comes out of this disaster quite well.
I love these French pre-dreadnoughts. Extreme tumble-home, wacky superstructure, odd armament... Just goes to show, you don't have to be sane to design warships for the Marine Nationale. But it helps.
If Citroen made ships.
It also shoes that even the oddest design can be made real if you invest enough time and money. In the end hoping that whomever your going up against doesn't surrender without a fight from dieing from laughter
this ship was an important stepping stone. Miazaki would have just drawn regular battleships if this hadn't been built
Pretty much my idea First swing this cute Little ship, that he would love something like this.
💯
The most absolutely accurate take!
Thanks for introducing me to the Miazaki rabbit-hole!
Season greetings Drach & Mrs Drach
& Drachet!!
That thing looks like a floating Water Park! What a busy looking thing!
I think the designers must have been more unstable than the ship. 😂😂
My favorite hotel besides the Yamato
So early I see Japanese torpedo boats
* Throws binoculars *
Kamchatka has entered the chat
Damn it, I never get here early enough.
”Rapid throw!…” as your throwing arm comes to bear…!”
Not even worth scrapping….. .😂
It's the Motel 6 of battleships.
"We'll leave the lifeboats out for you."
You sir, are insulting Motel 6.
@@kyleglenn2434 I didn't think that was possible! On the other hand, I suppose that it is French ...
Ultimate steam punk battleship design.
No, too few visible gear, and Airship/Zeppelin landing pads/towers.
It would have made a awesome museum ship! Can you imagine getting a tour on the WTF Hoche?
When the Grand Hotel goes to war! Glorious ship, and so many amazing photgraphs too.
Ah, finally we come to my favourite warship of all time. Hoche: A flawed ship but not nearly as bad as her appearance might give an impression of.
Your comments have been noted for the psychiatrist…
@
I need no psychiatrist, I am perfectly sane.
Hi Fleet of Oceans i think we all know you love french pre dreadnoughts but why exactly do you love them
@@TheFleetOfOceans I beg to differ
A flawed ship… but a Purdy one!!
LE TUMBLEHOME LOVER DOTH AGREE
I have to say that your channel is not only excellent maritime warfare source, but also an excellent source on learning English as a language to be loved 🙂🇨🇿❤🇬🇧
What a wonderfully weird design! Almost looks like a steel foundry from outside. I love it!
A thing of beauty
legally blind i take it??
The steampunk nature of French ships of this era just continues to fascinate me.
A second look at these fine hotels? A suprise but a welcomed one
Seeing the superstructure extend over top of the main gun turrets is a mighty curious sight. The French truly are an interesting lot.
Yeah, it's hilarious. It makes them look less like turrets and more like gigantic casemates.
my favourite warship ever!!!!
Nuh uhhh
Nuh uhhh
Nuh uhhh
Likewise, hello fellow Hoche enjoyer.
@@TheFleetOfOceans Both of you have a fine sense of what good is.
You can feel Drach’s pain just looking at this vessel.
"This resulted in a unique ship" ahh the sarcasm is dripping here.
I love these old floating hotels. Much of the ship thinks it’s a submarine and what is on top is so busy that it looks like they put everything and the kitchen sink there. It’s not beautiful but it’s very interesting.
French lronclads, a joint venture of Ghibli Studio and ACME. I love it.
These tumblehome pre-dreadnoughts are so striking, I love the look. so different from the turret + brick look most warships have now.
It looks like a totally capsized hull, that has had a weird amusement park built on the exposed bottom. 😢
I love battleships with lots of superstructure much nicer looking than flat ships with only turrets, funnels and masts above the hull.
Well..at least the onboard wine and cheese cellar got a 5 star rating from the crew😏😂🍷🧀⭐👍
As it should be!
@@MoultrieGeek 🫡 *Mon Capitain, there are 2 inspectors for a surprise audit on the dock.*
Government? Admiralty? Tell them I am busy and come back tomorrow!🥱
🫡 *Non...Guide de Michelin..*
For Gods sake let them in and wake up the chef🫣😱 hurry up!🏃
You are so good at what you do! These videos are amazing, plus the French ships that you do are always just such a pleasure because they are so absurd. I missed about half your narration on this because I was laughing at the pictures. Please keep finding stuff like this and bringing it to word for people to see.
They should have installed a high diving board and a fun water slide.
They did during one of the refits, Drach could not find any photos on the internet though.
@@glenchapman3899 I was wondering why your pants were smoking until I saw your comment. :P
@@jkirschy Who me? Never lol
Monsieurs!
This hotel has lousy food, cramped rooms and terrible service.
on the plus side, it offers the best view of the French Navy. Mainly because you avoid watching the ship itself.
But the vine cellar are excellent.
Reminds me of a joke.
Q: Where can you have the best view of Paris?
A: The top of le Tour Montparnasse.
Q: Why is that?
A: Is is the only place in the city where you cannot see le Tour Montparnasse.
I look at that ship and think, "Busy! Very, very busy!!"
Measure twice, fit wing mounted guns once
Aww you didn't mention that the Officers mess ward room not only had a marble floor but also had marble fixtures, and she also had a champagne/wine storage cellar :D
And a cheese cellar. Don't forget the cheese cellar.
The main principle of La Royale at the time was (like a lot of other navires) was to have the most possible type of ships as possible. But ours had a wine cellar. That makes me think that wine cellars should be taken into account as torpedoes protections even if it works, the whole crew died of cardiac arrest at the thinking of the holy bottles destroyed 😂 Must leave you, had to prepare a boeuf bourguignon for tomorrow 😁😋
Bottles?
Kegs and caskets
French design of the warship was amazing 🤩
The OG Hotel-At-Arms, mother of all fighting hotels. Her legacy will not be forgotten. Or forgiven, for that matter.
I still can't decide if to count those as barbettes or as dramatically overbuilt modern turrets. But then, the designers probably couldn't make this decision as well.
Another French floating Hotel. BTW Congrats on publishing your first(of many I hope) books! This channel, writing a book and a little one, I can only assume you no longer sleep.
Yeah, battle hotels!
First reaction from thumbnail.
“Goodness, that is one UGLY ship.”
Mine was "Yay! I have waited so very long for this".
But maybe not for the reason you imagine...
Fascinating, as Always!!!
A light railway might have assisted to get from fore to aft, with intermediate stops (by request) at convenient frame numbers.
I still want to see you do the USS Mississippi BB-23 and the USS Idaho BB-24.
The OG Grand Hotel. :)
WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU PUT A CASTLE ON YOUR PRE DREADNOUGHT
...when your ship doesn't have a conning tower but a keep. :)
I wish you could get a model of the French tumble home battleships
The next time your in the states , you should swing by Baltimore and check out the Coast Guard cutter Taney . She's a Pearl Hrouber survivor .
I actually think she looks really cool, especially the superstructure over top of the turrets.
I mean, that's not going to suffer any blast damage, is it?
Its beautiful...
Why is drach doing scary videos in december? Doesnt he know french pre dreadnoughts and dreadnoughts are for scary season only 😂
I need a 1/700 scale model of this ship for my shelf. I believe there is one available in resin, but possibly difficult to find in retail at the moment.
Ebay has listings of a resin kit from Combrig in 1/700
@@glenchapman3899 Thank you! That must be the one.
@@Rdeboer My pleasure, and in my experience Ebay are pretty responsive if there are ever any issues with the order, so I do trust them for all my naval purchases.
Is the "Fleet of Oceans" Christmas present?
The French really did produce the most irrational (but original) artisan steampunk warships ever - they look like they belong in Nemesis the Warlock!
If there was a prize for the most odd looking yet somewhat beautiful design for a warship the Marine National would win hands down
i cant imagine seeing this ship fight off anything
She’s an even match for the smaller ironclads of the same generation as her, but would struggle against her contemporaries. Against older vessels even if they be larger than her she’s sheer overkill, a testament to the rapid advance of technology and warship design in the 19th century.
@@TheFleetOfOceans ^ This.
Mange tout Rodney, mange tout.
Advert your eyes, children!!!
That view at 3:11 looks like something that would have haunted M. C. Escher's wildest dreams.
It took me way too long to realize that the "arrow" on the bow of the ship @1:25 wasn't an arrow at all. 🥴
That is well known, I suppose, but those 'funnily not-round' French calibers might be quite 'logical' in that French inch was 2.707 cm (vs British 2.54), and French 'old' pound was 489.5 grams (vs British 453.7) and there was in use for a short time (1812-1840) a metric pound of 500 grams.
An alternative universe without the Dreadnought being developed and French ship design becoming the new norm for the future would be so great.
Love the ships of this era. Is there a sandbox games where I can drop naval warships from multiple sides and have them fight each other?
Whenever in doubt that you're not up to sketch at designing warships? Remember this existed
Hoche suffered from being a political whipping boy, everyone stuck their fingers in the pie, resulting in her carrying every conceivable gadget the 19th century could provide.
She had electric elevators in those heavy military masts.
She had hydraulic lifts for her turrets, which had to be lifted out of their watertight brass rings to turn for targeting, and then be re-sat for firing.
She had no wood on her main deck, it was either plain steel or possibly linoleum.
She could make her designed speed, but was restricted to 12 knots due to stability issues.
She was restricted from firing full broadsides due to stability issues.
For all her flaws, and I personally rate this ship with the Kearsarges for "worst battleship ever", I love her, deeply.
Such a wierdo...🖤
I feel it too.
Thanks drach
How did you manage to keep a straight face while doing this video?
Ah yes, when hotels go to war.
French war hotel is French war hotel.
I don't know what the next review will be on, but it's going to be niiiice.
Ok, now I’m thinking that in my ‘Republic of Texas Navy’ alternate history universe the MN sailing Hoche off of the Texas coast was one of the atrocities that the Texans will never forgive the French for, and the reason Texas started modernizing its navy in the early 1900’s. 😂
This era of warship design is interesting to say the least.
A pity that this one wasn't saved. Would have made a cracking great Airbnb.
Quite interesting, thx !
@5:15 She looks like a floating hotel.
Seeing designs like this make me wonder how much Absinthe the designers were drinking during the design process.
So gloriously ridiculous. I love the French pre-dreadnoughts.
Do the French Destroyer Anocit from WW2. 1943 with the HMS Harvester and U-432 is a good story
4:10 France really knows how to make hull cute
Is this what Studio Ghilbli used as the model for Howl's Moving Castle?
Ah, the MN Hoche, the fleet flagship of the Jejeune êcole.
I will also point out that Hoche despite her appearance isn’t actually a French pre-dreadnought. She’s part of the last quartet of French ironclads. Rough contemporaries to the admiral class barbette ships of the RN (although only HOCHE’S three half sisters in the Marceau class can be considered decent opponents to the admirals).
Those in terms of superstructure and looks she definitely sets the standards from French construction practice moving forwards.
Marceau class? Did they mime gunfire?
Happy Christmas FoO!
From: Drach...
Best Christmas present EVER Yes?!?
(& he even had the courtesy of Not putting up the Eyes! 😵💫)
Funkiest warship I've ever seen.
French ship designers where drunk on Bordeaux
I should book in to a hotel to watch this!
You can't fool me. That's not a battleship, it's a hotel.
5:14 FFS this kinda looks like my home town skyline 😳
Nobody: You know, an excessive amount of tumblehome might be bad for all kinds of reasons, like poor reserve buoyancy, stability, and lack of deck space.
French naval architects: I fart in your general direction!
Good thing no wars were fought during her service.
"Quelle belle cible!" Wilhelm II, the Kaiser