@@franzjosefstakes when i went to the fantasy library earlier this week, i went through that roundabout. Some dickhead didnt use their blinker, making me confused while entering it!
I've been using Leica cameras since 1968. They are, and always have been, the finest built cameras. Imagine using the same body and lens (M4/50/2) for 54 years and knowing it will probably keep going for another 54 years. That was the best month's salary I ever invested in myself.
As someone fairly new to the hobby, I love how these videos bring you up to speed on the different brands and give you an idea of where they’re coming from. Have you guys thought of doing a series on the history of each one?
A+ for avoiding the terms micro contrast and Leica look. I love Leica (and their history!), and that omission probably saved another 50-1000 negative comments
I have to say, if photography isn't just work, or a hobby that's occasional, the Leica 'experience' is very enjoyable. I love my CL/Q2M, and the others. It's just .... less stressful ,,, than my Sony kit. Which I also love.
I just got my first Leica. M10. I bought it used from Leica DC. I'm 22, in college. I paid $5350. I do not regret saving up for half a year and selling 3 cameras to help pay for it. No regrets
@@VoltLover00 Have worked Full time since I graduated highschool. I work at an airport and make $24/hr. Live with my parents still as I went through undergrad, which was paid for by scholarships. Maybe stop being jealous I grinded for what I wanted.
I think you did a good job! As a former Leica shooter (I did go through a lot of Leica from analog to digital) I can relate to nearly everything you both said. Still, I can no longer afford using Leica gear (I do still own an old Leica IIIf and some ancient lenses, but my Leica is not fully functional and I can't get one that would be fit for everyday use), and part of that *is* the move to luxury items that Leica has forced for some years by now. Still, maybe, at some point in the future, a used Q2 - this is a dream I have now and then …
Another negative about Leica is the maintenance. My friend brought her MP240 to repair at local Leica store but it ended up being sent to Germany, costing more than a thousand dollars and requiring more than 3 months to complete. What a pain.
I had to send mine to Wetzlar for repair. A M10 where the ISO dial stopped responding. I was way out of warranty, but they still took it in. Sent me a FedEx slip, asked me if I wanted to borrow a camera of my own choice during the repair time. So, I got to try out the SL2-S with the wonderful SL 24-90 lens. They also sent a M adapter so that I could use my own lenses. Repair time was about a month. They also cleaned my camera and made sure my rangefinder was adjusted. Price: Nothing. Got nothing but good things to say about Leica customer service.
A positive is that If they make a mistake they stand for it, the M9 had a problem of coroding sensors and they replaced them at no cost even long after the waranty ended.
Thanks for the wonderful video..... I can really understand your predicament. Trying to get your hands on a newly released Leica is almost impossible unless you have connections with them. When the SL2 was first launched in Nov 19, I was told by my local Leica office that I had to wait 3-4 months before I can get my order. As I don't have the patience to wait that long, I called up the Leica Store in Wetzlar and they had stock for 2 pieces. Told them to reserve one for me and I flew there to collect it within a week. Same thing goes repair..... my 90-280 lens had some problems and my local Leica office said it will take 6-8 weeks to get it repaired as they need to send it back to Wetzlar. Flew over here for my holiday and it was repaired by the wonderful folks at Leica within a week. Fortunately for me, my experiences with the folks over at Wetzlar has been wonderful so far...... provided you can coincide your holidays with your trip to Wetzlar 😆
You mentioned watches and cars that are hand built and expensive. There is a difference 😅 although my mechanical wristwatch is definitely “outdated” it’s not reliant on anything specific to keep usable such as a computer, USB ports, batteries, memory cards etc. so you pay $10,000 for a wristwatch and 100 years from now it can still be very usable to the same thing. A 24MP camera with an SD card and a proprietary battery you’ll be lucky if it’s still even usable 20 years from now.
Thanks! I really enjoyed this episode on Leica and the series in general. I liked shooting rangefinder cameras in the days of film (I started with a Zorki IV and then moved up to a Cosina/Voightlander). The viewfinder and manual focus was a great experience. I think that kind of shooting is more fun than the SLR used to borrow from my mom. When I got back into photography I bought a used Fuji X100v because it promised some of that same viewfinder experience. It’s certainly delivered in terms of image quality and enjoyment. I’d love to buy a Leica but it’s simply out of my price range right now.
I have an M2, and I have an X100V; let me tell you the rangefinder experience is just not there in the X100"n" cameras. Sure the X100V is a great _streetwalker,_ has a superb, bright viewfinder. It's adjustable for deficient eyesight (Leica diopters cost $200). The X100V will get you shots that the M2 (or an MP, or M10, 11, etc) with a 35 will not, expert zone-focusing notwhitstanding; however that nail driving hammer feel of Leicas is (again) _just not there._ Sadly, digital Leicas, even used ones, command crazy prices (and then they're just computers that look like Leicas).
@@jorgemtrevino Yes, the X100v is definitely not a rangefinder, but I am OK with that. I like carrying it around and the images I can make with it. RE: "(and then they're just computers that look like Leicas)." Yes! I totally agree! My Fuji is a crazy little image making robot. I am stunned by the computing power and features that are packed into modern digital cameras. Do you want Focus Stacking? Sure, it will do everything for you except combine it into a final single image. As someone who started playing with both film cameras and computers in the 1980s, the convergence is astonishing.
I love shooting with Leica. It started with the Q2 monochrome and now I am also using the M11. When I need fast continuous auto focus, I use my Sony cameras :). Watch out, the Q2 is a gateway drug.
I've had my 2nd hand Q-P for precisely two days and I'm thinking, hmmmm M10/11. Just as well I'm supremely happy with the Q, but yeah, I can see me getting one at some point.
I switched all my Leica gear to Lumix. I was a huge Leica fan but they killed it for me by sharing the same sensor with Panasonic at this point you really are paying 4-5x more for the exact same sensor in another camera body that is more capable. Sure the Lumix isn’t hand made but it also won’t have the crazy repair times that Leica owners face and have to deal with. Even for me a die hard Leica fan couldn’t justify having a body that was 4x more expensive and lacked so many features. So now I’m able to adopt my M Mount lenses on my Lumix S1 and resolve more out of it than on my Leica M bodies while also being able to have an autofocus option if need be
@@raxmendorom I haven’t noticed any smearing of corners adapting my M lenses but I use m lenses mostly for portraits with significant bokeh. If I want a super sharp everything in focus then I use an L Mount sigma art lens or one of the Panasonic lenses
Totally right. There is a border where you are not paying for hte product%procedure but for the name and - simple - for the "bullshits". No fucking way tehse cameras worth that much. Even if it's handmade. And handmade doesn't mean "superior quality"....
Where I think folks get lost with Leica is thinking that it’s about the “Leica Look” or for people with more money than sense. While Leica does attract the latter, it also attracts people who are into the craft of making an image and not just in the image itself. And that craft goes down to using a hand-made camera. With any modern FF camera and the right lens (and it’s always more the lens than the camera), I can achieve the “Leica Look” in post. But with Leica, I have a vivid, tactile memory of making that photo. And that for me is why I shoot Leica.
The Leica look is in the rendering of their lenses though. The “look” of a 50mm Summilux (or any of their best lenses) is the idea, it wasn’t until digital (and really the M9) that that idea could even be conflated.
@@Kevon420 agreed. And to underscore your point… Leica lenses (and, of course, the photographer 😅) are responsible for the Leica Look, not the camera (and the 50 summilux you mentioned, even more than the Noctilux, renders the best version of it to my 👀). We also happen to be in a great time when you can get an awesome look, even if not quite a Leica one, using Voigtlander lenses (and to a certain but lesser extent 7artisan and their ilk). Happily, for those who care mostly about the final image, you can adapt a Leica or Voigtlander lens to a Nikon Z-body and make a reasonable facsimile of what an M would produce. The experience, however, of capturing that photo with a rangefinder can’t be reproduced or adapted. Maybe once Pixii goes full frame…
And I tried the path of adapting Leica lenses on to Sony fullframe bodies. Costly error. It did however reveal how much compensating processing goes on inside Leica digital bodies to compensate for their wider lenses.
i got a great deal on a m240 a month ago and maaaan do i love that camera. it's PERFECT (for me). it's the best single frame making/taking machine I've owned. it's a rather old camera but it's not outdated.
I waited 15yrs to buy a pair of M analogue bodies and a few lenses. Finally got the chance and they couldn’t even ship a camera to me that wasn’t looking like shit. 3 M-A’s all with dust inside the viewfinder out of the box.. refunded €16k of an order and they didn’t give a fuck. Wrote numerous emails and they didn’t even care. Waited 2months for them to sort an issue the Japanese would have sorted in 2 weeks yet the “Luxury” brand couldn’t sort a simple problem in 3 bodies in 2 months. NEVER AGAIN!!!
Leica isn‘t that expensive if you consider the used market prices. I‘ve bought a M type 262 for 3300 € and sold it for 3000€ five years later. Which other camera could do that?
I went from my first used M-E Leica and loved it! After 9 years I could finally afford a M10 but with the M11 already out, and after doing loads of research, I still wanted the M10. But I had to contact a dealer in Chicago (I am from NJ) who had a new M10 still in the box and I grabbed it....what a wonderful camera with the Summicron 35 f/2. Well worth the wait. I know Leica is not for many, but it is about the experience and beautiful photographs.
@@zentrani I don't mind. The new M10 cost $7,995 in February 2022. I believe the M11 was the same price but after review comparisons I preferred the M10 and never regretted it.
@@zentrani To me, the M11 had too many variables. I didn't need 60 megapixels; I have printed 2X3' prints beautifully from 24megapixls. Also, I was not interested in a touch screen. The M10 was exactly what I sought in a camera (the Canon D5 drove me crazy) and I feel that I am making the photograph, not the camera. I shoot manual and need no camera settings. As compared to the M-E, the one addition I do like is the "live view" when I occasionally need it. I do not regret the choice! Thanks for asking.
@@swedesrus25 I agree with most of this, I wish there was a smaller resolution M11 variant with the new battery, USB-C and touch screen. I think the 60megapixels is too heavy for the processor just yet.
I own a Leica R4s. I have about $800 US into it, complete with CLA and and a 50mm Summicron. What this camera does is to make me think. To plan out my shots. To concentrate on aperture and shutter speed. ISO is dependent on the film choice. I don't need autofocus, white balance, auto-winders with this camera. I'll go to my 5D4 for that. This camera is just plain fun and satisfying. It brings me back to what photography was and is to me.
I read through the comments and there are some very emotional responses from the people who hate Leica cameras and/or Leica users. I recently bought the Q2 Monochrom and consider it the perfect camera. For me. I have Nikon and Olympus camera systems (APSC and M4/3) and enjoy them and with my Oly having all of the bells and whistles and the Nikon giving my first taste of creating beautiful photos.The experience of using the Leica Q2 Monochrom is different, the enjoyment is quintessentially the reason for buying and using this camera.
Been watching camera photography RUclips channels everyday now for 9 years. It’s so funny that the best images in nearly all their portfolios were taken when reviewing Leica cameras.
I am used to recognise the 'Leica glow' that cannot be imitated. However, with the rise of Fujifilm GFX, and full frame mirrorless in general keeps getting more advanced, I could not recognise this Leica glow anymore. Am I right that the competition gets tighter and everyone raises the bar everytime?
For me, these days, it's only obvious with Leica's APO lenses. Some of the other brands' stuff now matches or I'll even find preferable to a lot of Leica's older/lower end, non-APO lenses.
With the M mount lenses if you buy them used the cost of ownership over many years is close to 0 If you take care of them well they hardly lose value and some even increase in value.
M10R Black Paint here. Love it. Best camera I ever owned. And I’m a teacher. So there…. Everyone complaining about Leica prices here has paid for a few Leicas already if you add up all the money they’ve spent on lenses and bodies. A Leica you own it forever. Pay once and that’s it. It’s a guy who bought a Paul Newman Daytona and now his grandson owns it.
I sold my fuji-pack (x-pro 3 and 4 different lenses from 16mm to 50-140 zoom… I got enough just to buy a M10, then I bought a 50mm TTartisan-lens for a couple if 100$… the fuji stuff are things ivetcollected the past 6-7 years and after a 3/4 of a year I bought a Voigtlander 28mm Ultron. I have a quite bad paycheck compared to the standard here, it’s all about priorities, if you want/need wide to tele-zoom a M-series is not for you. I almost only used my 35mm f1.4 so an M10 with a 50 1.4 was a perfect start! Next move is to buy a used Leica summicron 50mm, if that happens this year, or next year 🤷♂️ If you want a Leica, and live in a wealthy country, it’s up to you, what you want and how you prioritize. If you’re not ready to give up a speedy sony or canon, then don’t blame a company that doesn’t go with the “made in china” race. You cant compare a “made in germany” company with a “made in china”-one. It’s a big different. And show me a sony that’s made in brass 🤷♂️ if spec is more important than a relationship with your gadget, then go with the sony, it will always be better on paper. But I wouldn’t change my leica m10 for a sony A7xxx any day in the week :)
They just make the best photo-comedy duo ever. And their chosen location in the middle of a roundabout to get the Leica factory in the b/g, is very very funny. (I imagine the sound person had kittens at the very thought of it; the traffic is very noticeable, but that’s that’s makes it so funny !! ). And they still managed to cover most of the pro’s and con’s of Leica ownership, albeit losing the good cop/bad cop act somewhere along the way, (which was funny too ! ).
Yes, it’s a mistake not to have an apsc camera. I have sold my all my Leica bodies but kept the CL and several of their lenses. Full frame should not be the only option. The APSC camera is so travel friendly and comparatively light to carry. Maybe apsc from Panasonic, I hope so, but that would end of line m43. Which I also enjoy
The few leica shooters I've met were totally chill. Couldn't care less what other people were up to. What I do see more often... People who can't seem to shut up about the legendary Leica snobbery, even if there's not a Leica within 20 miles lol. It seems to be the thing nikon-vs-canon types whine about as their secondary standard topic.
Leica M5 experience In 1978, I started working at a community college as the head of the A/V department. The first thing I noticed is that they had a Leica M5 and a whole range of lenses to go with it. So as a freshly graduate for a communication art department I was ecstatic at the idea of working with one of the most respected cameras in the world! Everybody is talking about the Leica experience. Well, here is mine! First when you look into the viewfinder of the camera you see quite a wide frame. This frame is in fact the size of the wider lens the camera can accommodate without an attachment. If I recall correctly the size of the frame was that of a 27mm lens. When you put a lens of a different focal length there is a smaller white semi-transparent frame appearing inside that frame. You have to frame your subject inside that smaller frame. What ever is outside that frame will of course not be on the film. Yes, I forgot to tell you that the M5 is a 35mm film camera. So, when I’d use the 35mm, 50mm, or 105mm lenses the semi-transparent frame would not only change but it would also be smaller and smaller in size to the point where it would almost be impossible to see the real content of the image you were framing. It was almost as if you were looking with your own eyes and trying to see without any magnification whatsoever the content of your image. At first, I though to myself you need to experiment, become use to it, work with it so to develop the proper reflexes, make it your own. So, I gave myself six months to get familiar with it. After six months the insecurity I felt using it with all kind of issues related to this framing apparatus made me let it go. I finally used the other camera we had a Pentax Spotmatic. So, if you are a street photographer, using always the same lens wider angle lens, if you are an amateur that does not really earn a living with photography, if you are a wealthy professional in need of a status symbol hanging from your neck, get a Leica. Other wise save a truckload of money and get something else. And please don’t give us that Leica experience BS, because using this camera on a daily basis to try and earn a living was not a good experience!
Well, that is one of the drawbacks. I do not know if a triple Fov viewfinder is possible: wide, normal (today's 24ish [never mentioned what] to 50) and long. With the long doing double duty to better focus the Noctiluxes.
Hey, i know where that is... Because i live basically there. Funny to see, would love for you to do a fan meetup or something at some point if you ever come back to germany.
Jordan - you do want a q2 Monochrom. :) it is like the perfect moody vacation camera in addition to an everyday carry. Plus, b roll that doesn’t need sound can be gorgeous
Good discussion. Too bad they are so expensive but like Jordan said, where else are you going to get a manual focus, full frame rangefinder? What makes the M so great is the fact it’s so simple. It forces the user to understand shutter speed, aperture and ISO. Understanding those three simple things will make you a much better photographer. I’d love to own an M sometime. BTW, there are a huge number of good inexpensive third-party M mount lenses available which can make the total cost of system ownership similar to other full-frame systems.
Thanks for this very enjoyable episode. As a Leica Q2 owner I can say that I have never used as much and had fun with a camera as this one. It is much more versatile than you might imagine reading its specs.From astro- to portrait-photography the Q2 always delivered great results. And it is the perfect street photography camera.
This is my experience as well. You can compare all the “stats” you want but the Q2 is the only one I’ve used that makes me want to shoot and allows me to quickly change whatever I want with no paging through menus. The raws out of this camera are unreal.
@@linusfotograf You could but both is ok. "Gute Polizei, böse Polizei" would be the police in general while "Guter Polizist, Böser Polizist" would address individual cops. So the latter would be more precise and closer to the English version ;).
For your "good cop/bad cop" translation you are looking for "guter Bulle/böser Bulle" in German. "Bulle" is a slang term for a police officer (with a negative connotation), "böse" equals "mean" or even "evil". "Schlecht" in the way you used it means being bad at a job, not being the mean one.
The 'Luxury Goods' argument is fair..... however the reviews of Leica are like those of any other mass consumer product. (you don't see Rolex/Omega/IWC reviewed like that)
I have the Leica M11 and the Q2. The M11 Black was ordered on launch day in January and I had it second week of March. I'd say the same for Nikon, Sony, Canon and others on long waits for new products, and Jan to Mar isn't bad at all for a hot new product. (Ask a Z9 or Z 100-400mm buyer). The Q2 was available right away. I've got a few top demand lenses and were available so I'm not sure it is true right now that there are long delays. Yes, they are moving their U.S. location so some things are now end of July, but that's a temporary and beneficial move. Your other points are right on and there is no perfect camera system. you can argue at Leica's price point they should be the exception, but remember there are other factors such as handmade, zero tolerance QA, metal lenses and such that drive those prices.
One of the reasons I sold my Leica L lenses: No aperture ring. Since the amount of control options on the SL cameras is already a bit limited compared to for example the S1, not having that is just dumb. The M-mount is just not for me, the main problem being the combination of manual focus and off axis viewfinder. M lenses on the SL is the best of both worlds in my mind but still comes with challenges. Minimum focus distance for example. And with those issues the amount of money you have to put down makes it a tough sell, literally.
That is where Sigma lenses come to play. Most of them have an aperturering and very close focus distance. the contemporary series fits the Sl bodys very nice.
I am left eyed and always felt uncomfortable with the Leica film camera. Then I looked at the slides and sold the photos and smiled. I am very happy with a Panasonic to use those lovely lenses. The Super-Elmars, Elmars and Hektors have a new life for me. Although I obscured the red dot because I did not want to be an Leica person. My first TL, I put a plastic cellphone type case on it. With a 23/3 on it, I could take it places serious cameras were not allowed. Since it used the screen for things, it passed inspection and sure got better photos than they thought my toy camera was capable of. :)
One interesting side of Jordan’s bad cop role is that the criticism is common among many reviews I have seen. With the suggestions I have the impression all cameras would be similar/identical if implemented 😀 Thinking of his points on the M
The Leica shooting experience, ergonomics, and build quality are second to none! They may not have the fastest autofocus or the most featured pack, but they have really good glass, user interface, ISO performance, noise reduction, etc. Most important of all, very motivating and inspiring to bring it out every day wherever I go. Never regretted with Leica.
I thoroughly enjoyed this ... I'm not a dentist and but I really using my Leica gear ... no, it's not the best possible camera, as it was rightfully said, it's a unique experience. Jordan's 'failure' in being the bad guy is awesome ... ;-)
I love Leica and used them since the 70’s and owned too many Leica cameras and lenses . Today I still has M Monochrom, M10 , Q , Q Monochrom and the disappointment CL which I bought for my wife because of small and light camera . But currently I don’t see the newer Leica that really worth for the price you pay .
I was looking at getting the M11. But to my surprise, I have found out that so many people are having trouble with them and have to send them back for repair, I was very disappointed on learning this, so I will stick with my canon for now
And waiting months.. yes months for Leicas bullshit technicians to make an attempt to fix it. €8400 for a lemon. Sony have phenomenal lenses and cost less … only difference is weight
They really do make the most beautiful cameras and lenses. But except for the SL, I personally find the handling to be unpleasant. I tried the Q2 with a grip and although it was much improved it still wasn’t amazing. Still worth going to a store and try them out. They’re pure beauty!
The elephant in the room is the very probable Q3 with 60mpx sensor. All the logic is already in the M11 to have a digital crop to 35mm (38mpx) and 50mm (18mpx) in a Q3. Now think of Fuji X100 style converters to be had for that Q3.
No tilting screen is a killer for me. I loved my SL but not having a tilting screen meant I had to go back to Fuji which I love too. Great shame in my case
I've owned 2 leica's and now just have the one. I don't miss IS because the high ISO is superb, I do wish people would stop picking on dentists lol 😂 BTW why are you in Germany... something being released? Great video as always 😊
I really don't understand what's up with Panasonic and PDAF or even implement LiDAR. They said with the GH6 as if they had already started the camera with CDAF and DFD but that's complete BS because people have been asking for a better tracking and continuous AF since the GH2 and PDAF has been out there for quite a while. There is no excuse to sticking with DFD. I understand the degradation of the quality argument but it's certainly not as big as a back and forth focus pulsing is distracting and bad.
![Yailin La Mas Viral, @kreizyk.official - Dale 2 (Remix) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JaYHBzgqz94/mqdefault.jpg)
Since I work there, I can can tell you all... that they are literally sitting on the center part of a roundabout.
I could see that roundabout from the window when I stayed at Leica's hotel for a night. Barely any cars came by (it was a saturday).
@@franzjosefstakes when i went to the fantasy library earlier this week, i went through that roundabout. Some dickhead didnt use their blinker, making me confused while entering it!
I've been using Leica cameras since 1968. They are, and always have been, the finest built cameras. Imagine using the same body and lens (M4/50/2) for 54 years and knowing it will probably keep going for another 54 years. That was the best month's salary I ever invested in myself.
i need to put down 4 months of salary for a body and 1 lens! working as engineer...proportions are not the same since 1968 :(
As someone fairly new to the hobby, I love how these videos bring you up to speed on the different brands and give you an idea of where they’re coming from. Have you guys thought of doing a series on the history of each one?
The Northrups have a great podcast series going over the history of many companies. It's a great listen if you like that format!!
@@alexiaf23 I’ll check them out. Thanks
@@alexiaf23 They also have some old videos with the history of some brands. Probably from 2016 or 2017, I can’t remember exactly.
Really enjoy this series. Hope to see you cover Panasonic soon
and really grill Panasonic on their AF
I wonder what the /focus/ will be on with Panasonic...
I've never used a Leica product, and maybe I never will - but I still appreciate that such choices exist for photographers in the modern world.
Dentists, not photographers.
@@azgarogly give me a break
@@azgarogly rich kids and rich parents.
@@azgarogly yawn.....such an unoriginal comment.
@@azgarogly lmaooo!
A+ for avoiding the terms micro contrast and Leica look. I love Leica (and their history!), and that omission probably saved another 50-1000 negative comments
I have to say, if photography isn't just work, or a hobby that's occasional, the Leica 'experience' is very enjoyable. I love my CL/Q2M, and the others. It's just .... less stressful ,,, than my Sony kit. Which I also love.
Something both of you do unquestionably well. Talk about cameras ! Jordan looks sharp in the video. Chris looks like he’s wearing a tie reluctantly 😎
Jordan Frowning instantly while being told he's bad cop to get in his role is just the icing on the cake
The only channel where I click "like" before even watching the video.
I just got my first Leica. M10. I bought it used from Leica DC. I'm 22, in college. I paid $5350. I do not regret saving up for half a year and selling 3 cameras to help pay for it. No regrets
Have fun with it! Its a wonderful experience.
Saving what? The money your parents gave you?
@@VoltLover00 You realize that people are able to work for at least six years at the age of 22 in most countries right?
@@annekedebruyn7797 He's just mad my parents use the 24 hours a day better than his
@@VoltLover00 Have worked Full time since I graduated highschool. I work at an airport and make $24/hr. Live with my parents still as I went through undergrad, which was paid for by scholarships.
Maybe stop being jealous I grinded for what I wanted.
I think you did a good job! As a former Leica shooter (I did go through a lot of Leica from analog to digital) I can relate to nearly everything you both said. Still, I can no longer afford using Leica gear (I do still own an old Leica IIIf and some ancient lenses, but my Leica is not fully functional and I can't get one that would be fit for everyday use), and part of that *is* the move to luxury items that Leica has forced for some years by now. Still, maybe, at some point in the future, a used Q2 - this is a dream I have now and then …
This was actually a good promotion for the GH6! The video looked awesome in the hands of someone who knows what they’re doing, like Jordan.
Another negative about Leica is the maintenance. My friend brought her MP240 to repair at local Leica store but it ended up being sent to Germany, costing more than a thousand dollars and requiring more than 3 months to complete. What a pain.
I had to send mine to Wetzlar for repair. A M10 where the ISO dial stopped responding.
I was way out of warranty, but they still took it in. Sent me a FedEx slip, asked me if I wanted to borrow a camera of my own choice during the repair time. So, I got to try out the SL2-S with the wonderful SL 24-90 lens. They also sent a M adapter so that I could use my own lenses.
Repair time was about a month. They also cleaned my camera and made sure my rangefinder was adjusted.
Price: Nothing.
Got nothing but good things to say about Leica customer service.
A positive is that If they make a mistake they stand for it, the M9 had a problem of coroding sensors and they replaced them at no cost even long after the waranty ended.
@@davidenpunktse Which store provided such excellent service?
@@pkennethv I got in touch with Leica directly. So, Leica in Wetzlar themselves provided this excellent service.
My 2nd hand M240 rangefinder needed to be recalibrated, took two weeks and was done free of charge.
I always thought the dentist thing was unfair until I found out my dentist is into photography, and you can guess what he shoots.
The next few times you go in to see him you're going to be thinking, "What am I helping him buy today?" :-D
Teeth…?
@@distomos8118 Or, more likely, anything *but* teeth. :-D
If cost was not an issue, and money was unlimited, most photographers would own a Leica.
@@maxfairclough3600 …and a Rolex.
Thanks for the wonderful video.....
I can really understand your predicament. Trying to get your hands on a newly released Leica is almost impossible unless you have connections with them.
When the SL2 was first launched in Nov 19, I was told by my local Leica office that I had to wait 3-4 months before I can get my order. As I don't have the patience to wait that long, I called up the Leica Store in Wetzlar and they had stock for 2 pieces. Told them to reserve one for me and I flew there to collect it within a week.
Same thing goes repair..... my 90-280 lens had some problems and my local Leica office said it will take 6-8 weeks to get it repaired as they need to send it back to Wetzlar. Flew over here for my holiday and it was repaired by the wonderful folks at Leica within a week.
Fortunately for me, my experiences with the folks over at Wetzlar has been wonderful so far...... provided you can coincide your holidays with your trip to Wetzlar 😆
You mentioned watches and cars that are hand built and expensive. There is a difference 😅 although my mechanical wristwatch is definitely “outdated” it’s not reliant on anything specific to keep usable such as a computer, USB ports, batteries, memory cards etc. so you pay $10,000 for a wristwatch and 100 years from now it can still be very usable to the same thing. A 24MP camera with an SD card and a proprietary battery you’ll be lucky if it’s still even usable 20 years from now.
Have a nice stay in Germany. Too bad I dont live near Wetzlar. Would love to see you guys in action. Keep it up!
I got the Q2M
Dont wait. Its a classic. Perfect as it is for years and years to come.
Waiting is missing out ;-)
Thanks! I really enjoyed this episode on Leica and the series in general. I liked shooting rangefinder cameras in the days of film (I started with a Zorki IV and then moved up to a Cosina/Voightlander). The viewfinder and manual focus was a great experience. I think that kind of shooting is more fun than the SLR used to borrow from my mom. When I got back into photography I bought a used Fuji X100v because it promised some of that same viewfinder experience. It’s certainly delivered in terms of image quality and enjoyment. I’d love to buy a Leica but it’s simply out of my price range right now.
I have an M2, and I have an X100V; let me tell you the rangefinder experience is just not there in the X100"n" cameras. Sure the X100V is a great _streetwalker,_ has a superb, bright viewfinder. It's adjustable for deficient eyesight (Leica diopters cost $200). The X100V will get you shots that the M2 (or an MP, or M10, 11, etc) with a 35 will not, expert zone-focusing notwhitstanding; however that nail driving hammer feel of Leicas is (again) _just not there._
Sadly, digital Leicas, even used ones, command crazy prices (and then they're just computers that look like Leicas).
@@jorgemtrevino Yes, the X100v is definitely not a rangefinder, but I am OK with that. I like carrying it around and the images I can make with it.
RE: "(and then they're just computers that look like Leicas)." Yes! I totally agree! My Fuji is a crazy little image making robot. I am stunned by the computing power and features that are packed into modern digital cameras. Do you want Focus Stacking? Sure, it will do everything for you except combine it into a final single image. As someone who started playing with both film cameras and computers in the 1980s, the convergence is astonishing.
Great show, loved the location and visual perspective in relation to Leica HQ.
I love shooting with Leica. It started with the Q2 monochrome and now I am also using the M11. When I need fast continuous auto focus, I use my Sony cameras :). Watch out, the Q2 is a gateway drug.
I've had my 2nd hand Q-P for precisely two days and I'm thinking, hmmmm M10/11. Just as well I'm supremely happy with the Q, but yeah, I can see me getting one at some point.
I switched all my Leica gear to Lumix. I was a huge Leica fan but they killed it for me by sharing the same sensor with Panasonic at this point you really are paying 4-5x more for the exact same sensor in another camera body that is more capable. Sure the Lumix isn’t hand made but it also won’t have the crazy repair times that Leica owners face and have to deal with. Even for me a die hard Leica fan couldn’t justify having a body that was 4x more expensive and lacked so many features. So now I’m able to adopt my M Mount lenses on my Lumix S1 and resolve more out of it than on my Leica M bodies while also being able to have an autofocus option if need be
Are there any smearing in the corners in the S1? I'd like to switch from Z to L mount because of this. Thanks!
@@raxmendorom I haven’t noticed any smearing of corners adapting my M lenses but I use m lenses mostly for portraits with significant bokeh. If I want a super sharp everything in focus then I use an L Mount sigma art lens or one of the Panasonic lenses
Totally right. There is a border where you are not paying for hte product%procedure but for the name and - simple - for the "bullshits". No fucking way tehse cameras worth that much. Even if it's handmade. And handmade doesn't mean "superior quality"....
Where I think folks get lost with Leica is thinking that it’s about the “Leica Look” or for people with more money than sense. While Leica does attract the latter, it also attracts people who are into the craft of making an image and not just in the image itself. And that craft goes down to using a hand-made camera. With any modern FF camera and the right lens (and it’s always more the lens than the camera), I can achieve the “Leica Look” in post. But with Leica, I have a vivid, tactile memory of making that photo. And that for me is why I shoot Leica.
The Leica look is in the rendering of their lenses though. The “look” of a 50mm Summilux (or any of their best lenses) is the idea, it wasn’t until digital (and really the M9) that that idea could even be conflated.
@@Kevon420 agreed. And to underscore your point… Leica lenses (and, of course, the photographer 😅) are responsible for the Leica Look, not the camera (and the 50 summilux you mentioned, even more than the Noctilux, renders the best version of it to my 👀). We also happen to be in a great time when you can get an awesome look, even if not quite a Leica one, using Voigtlander lenses (and to a certain but lesser extent 7artisan and their ilk). Happily, for those who care mostly about the final image, you can adapt a Leica or Voigtlander lens to a Nikon Z-body and make a reasonable facsimile of what an M would produce. The experience, however, of capturing that photo with a rangefinder can’t be reproduced or adapted. Maybe once Pixii goes full frame…
And I tried the path of adapting Leica lenses on to Sony fullframe bodies. Costly error. It did however reveal how much compensating processing goes on inside Leica digital bodies to compensate for their wider lenses.
I enjoyed both this good cop bad cop summary , and the auction video and time in Wetzlar , fantastic reviews
i got a great deal on a m240 a month ago and maaaan do i love that camera. it's PERFECT (for me). it's the best single frame making/taking machine I've owned. it's a rather old camera but it's not outdated.
you can say all the bad things about leica, but deep inside your heart, you know you want one ;)
I waited 15yrs to buy a pair of M analogue bodies and a few lenses. Finally got the chance and they couldn’t even ship a camera to me that wasn’t looking like shit. 3 M-A’s all with dust inside the viewfinder out of the box.. refunded €16k of an order and they didn’t give a fuck. Wrote numerous emails and they didn’t even care. Waited 2months for them to sort an issue the Japanese would have sorted in 2 weeks yet the “Luxury” brand couldn’t sort a simple problem in 3 bodies in 2 months. NEVER AGAIN!!!
Leica isn‘t that expensive if you consider the used market prices. I‘ve bought a M type 262 for 3300 € and sold it for 3000€ five years later. Which other camera could do that?
I went from my first used M-E Leica and loved it! After 9 years I could finally afford a M10 but with the M11 already out, and after doing loads of research, I still wanted the M10. But I had to contact a dealer in Chicago (I am from NJ) who had a new M10 still in the box and I grabbed it....what a wonderful camera with the Summicron 35 f/2. Well worth the wait. I know Leica is not for many, but it is about the experience and beautiful photographs.
How much did you end up paying if you don’t mind me asking?
@@zentrani I don't mind. The new M10 cost $7,995 in February 2022. I believe the M11 was the same price but after review comparisons I preferred the M10 and never regretted it.
@@swedesrus25 thanks for the response, one last question, what was the attractive part of the m10 over the m11 for you? Thanks ;)
@@zentrani To me, the M11 had too many variables. I didn't need 60 megapixels; I have printed 2X3' prints beautifully from 24megapixls. Also, I was not interested in a touch screen. The M10 was exactly what I sought in a camera (the Canon D5 drove me crazy) and I feel that I am making the photograph, not the camera. I shoot manual and need no camera settings. As compared to the M-E, the one addition I do like is the "live view" when I occasionally need it. I do not regret the choice! Thanks for asking.
@@swedesrus25 I agree with most of this, I wish there was a smaller resolution M11 variant with the new battery, USB-C and touch screen. I think the 60megapixels is too heavy for the processor just yet.
Thank you for pro n con discussion on Leica cameras which highlight company inroads into top camera market. Thank you
Why on earth Fujifilm doesn’t get into full frame range finders?
I own a Leica R4s. I have about $800 US into it, complete with CLA and and a 50mm Summicron. What this camera does is to make me think. To plan out my shots. To concentrate on aperture and shutter speed. ISO is dependent on the film choice. I don't need autofocus, white balance, auto-winders with this camera. I'll go to my 5D4 for that. This camera is just plain fun and satisfying. It brings me back to what photography was and is to me.
I read through the comments and there are some very emotional responses from the people who hate Leica cameras and/or Leica users. I recently bought the Q2 Monochrom and consider it the perfect camera. For me. I have Nikon and Olympus camera systems (APSC and M4/3) and enjoy them and with my Oly having all of the bells and whistles and the Nikon giving my first taste of creating beautiful photos.The experience of using the Leica Q2 Monochrom is different, the enjoyment is quintessentially the reason for buying and using this camera.
Looking forward to you covering Fuji and Pentax :)
Been watching camera photography RUclips channels everyday now for 9 years. It’s so funny that the best images in nearly all their portfolios were taken when reviewing Leica cameras.
I am used to recognise the 'Leica glow' that cannot be imitated. However, with the rise of Fujifilm GFX, and full frame mirrorless in general keeps getting more advanced, I could not recognise this Leica glow anymore. Am I right that the competition gets tighter and everyone raises the bar everytime?
For me, these days, it's only obvious with Leica's APO lenses. Some of the other brands' stuff now matches or I'll even find preferable to a lot of Leica's older/lower end, non-APO lenses.
@@pkennethv agree with you. Do you have your personal favourite lenses that give Leica stuffs tough competition?
Can't wait for the one on Pentax !!!!!!😊
I also want a Q2M. I’ve been thinking of upgrading to a Q2 this year. May wait until we see what the Q3 looks like.
I love Leica, even though I’ve never been able to afford one. Hopefully one day.
Get one Alex, what a hack you only live once.
With the M mount lenses if you buy them used the cost of ownership over many years is close to 0 If you take care of them well they hardly lose value and some even increase in value.
M10R Black Paint here. Love it. Best camera I ever owned. And I’m a teacher. So there…. Everyone complaining about Leica prices here has paid for a few Leicas already if you add up all the money they’ve spent on lenses and bodies. A Leica you own it forever. Pay once and that’s it. It’s a guy who bought a Paul Newman Daytona and now his grandson owns it.
That was..... Great. Thanks for posting.
I sold my fuji-pack (x-pro 3 and 4 different lenses from 16mm to 50-140 zoom… I got enough just to buy a M10, then I bought a 50mm TTartisan-lens for a couple if 100$… the fuji stuff are things ivetcollected the past 6-7 years and after a 3/4 of a year I bought a Voigtlander 28mm Ultron. I have a quite bad paycheck compared to the standard here, it’s all about priorities, if you want/need wide to tele-zoom a M-series is not for you. I almost only used my 35mm f1.4 so an M10 with a 50 1.4 was a perfect start! Next move is to buy a used Leica summicron 50mm, if that happens this year, or next year 🤷♂️ If you want a Leica, and live in a wealthy country, it’s up to you, what you want and how you prioritize. If you’re not ready to give up a speedy sony or canon, then don’t blame a company that doesn’t go with the “made in china” race. You cant compare a “made in germany” company with a “made in china”-one. It’s a big different. And show me a sony that’s made in brass 🤷♂️ if spec is more important than a relationship with your gadget, then go with the sony, it will always be better on paper. But I wouldn’t change my leica m10 for a sony A7xxx any day in the week :)
Been shooting Leica M for 20 years. From film to digital M.
I never regret a moment of it.
They just make the best photo-comedy duo ever. And their chosen location in the middle of a roundabout to get the Leica factory in the b/g, is very very funny. (I imagine the sound person had kittens at the very thought of it; the traffic is very noticeable, but that’s that’s makes it so funny !! ).
And they still managed to cover most of the pro’s and con’s of Leica ownership, albeit losing the good cop/bad cop act somewhere along the way, (which was funny too ! ).
I hope Lumix continues the TL-line in some form via the L2 agreement
Yes, it’s a mistake not to have an apsc camera. I have sold my all my Leica bodies but kept the CL and several of their lenses. Full frame should not be the only option. The APSC camera is so travel friendly and comparatively light to carry. Maybe apsc from Panasonic, I hope so, but that would end of line m43. Which I also enjoy
The few leica shooters I've met were totally chill. Couldn't care less what other people were up to. What I do see more often... People who can't seem to shut up about the legendary Leica snobbery, even if there's not a Leica within 20 miles lol. It seems to be the thing nikon-vs-canon types whine about as their secondary standard topic.
Leica M5 experience
In 1978, I started working at a community college as the head of the A/V department. The first thing I noticed is that they had a Leica M5 and a whole range of lenses to go with it. So as a freshly graduate for a communication art department I was ecstatic at the idea of working with one of the most respected cameras in the world!
Everybody is talking about the Leica experience. Well, here is mine! First when you look into the viewfinder of the camera you see quite a wide frame. This frame is in fact the size of the wider lens the camera can accommodate without an attachment. If I recall correctly the size of the frame was that of a 27mm lens. When you put a lens of a different focal length there is a smaller white semi-transparent frame appearing inside that frame. You have to frame your subject inside that smaller frame. What ever is outside that frame will of course not be on the film. Yes, I forgot to tell you that the M5 is a 35mm film camera. So, when I’d use the 35mm, 50mm, or 105mm lenses the semi-transparent frame would not only change but it would also be smaller and smaller in size to the point where it would almost be impossible to see the real content of the image you were framing. It was almost as if you were looking with your own eyes and trying to see without any magnification whatsoever the content of your image. At first, I though to myself you need to experiment, become use to it, work with it so to develop the proper reflexes, make it your own. So, I gave myself six months to get familiar with it.
After six months the insecurity I felt using it with all kind of issues related to this framing apparatus made me let it go.
I finally used the other camera we had a Pentax Spotmatic.
So, if you are a street photographer, using always the same lens wider angle lens, if you are an amateur that does not really earn a living with photography, if you are a wealthy professional in need of a status symbol hanging from your neck, get a Leica. Other wise save a truckload of money and get something else. And please don’t give us that Leica experience BS, because using this camera on a daily basis to try and earn a living was not a good experience!
Well, that is one of the drawbacks. I do not know if a triple Fov viewfinder is possible: wide, normal (today's 24ish [never mentioned what] to 50) and long. With the long doing double duty to better focus the Noctiluxes.
‘…I just wanna Q2 monochrome…’ Jordan, my absolute favourite reviewer. Nice one gents. 👏
Welcome guys to Germany and thank you for this video
My original Canon EOS-1 film camera is still working perfectly for shooting film. Amazing.
Hey, i know where that is... Because i live basically there. Funny to see, would love for you to do a fan meetup or something at some point if you ever come back to germany.
You tease us with that brief screenshot of the Pixii website - I'd really wanna see you cover the camera at some point.
Before I bought a Leica, I'd watch reviews on YT all friggin day. Now that I own one, I'm still watching Leica content.
If you‘re interested it’s „Guter Bulle, Böser Bulle“ in German synchros of English cop movies.
I appreciate the lesson!
@@niccollsvideo And I appreciate the content, guys!
Jordan - you do want a q2 Monochrom. :) it is like the perfect moody vacation camera in addition to an everyday carry. Plus, b roll that doesn’t need sound can be gorgeous
Good discussion. Too bad they are so expensive but like Jordan said, where else are you going to get a manual focus, full frame rangefinder? What makes the M so great is the fact it’s so simple. It forces the user to understand shutter speed, aperture and ISO. Understanding those three simple things will make you a much better photographer. I’d love to own an M sometime. BTW, there are a huge number of good inexpensive third-party M mount lenses available which can make the total cost of system ownership similar to other full-frame systems.
Thanks for this very enjoyable episode. As a Leica Q2 owner I can say that I have never used as much and had fun with a camera as this one. It is much more versatile than you might imagine reading its specs.From astro- to portrait-photography the Q2 always delivered great results. And it is the perfect street photography camera.
This is my experience as well. You can compare all the “stats” you want but the Q2 is the only one I’ve used that makes me want to shoot and allows me to quickly change whatever I want with no paging through menus. The raws out of this camera are unreal.
„Böse Polizei“ fits better than „schlechte Polizei“ ;)
Wouldn’t you say polizist?
@@linusfotograf You could but both is ok. "Gute Polizei, böse Polizei" would be the police in general while "Guter Polizist, Böser Polizist" would address individual cops. So the latter would be more precise and closer to the English version ;).
Thank you for the correction, although maybe I meant Jordan is like a naughty cop. Because he totally is! 😄
@@niccollsvideoYou‘re welcome - there is no good German word to describe Jordan though ;).
For your "good cop/bad cop" translation you are looking for "guter Bulle/böser Bulle" in German. "Bulle" is a slang term for a police officer (with a negative connotation), "böse" equals "mean" or even "evil". "Schlecht" in the way you used it means being bad at a job, not being the mean one.
The 'Luxury Goods' argument is fair..... however the reviews of Leica are like those of any other mass consumer product. (you don't see Rolex/Omega/IWC reviewed like that)
I have the Leica M11 and the Q2. The M11 Black was ordered on launch day in January and I had it second week of March. I'd say the same for Nikon, Sony, Canon and others on long waits for new products, and Jan to Mar isn't bad at all for a hot new product. (Ask a Z9 or Z 100-400mm buyer). The Q2 was available right away. I've got a few top demand lenses and were available so I'm not sure it is true right now that there are long delays. Yes, they are moving their U.S. location so some things are now end of July, but that's a temporary and beneficial move. Your other points are right on and there is no perfect camera system. you can argue at Leica's price point they should be the exception, but remember there are other factors such as handmade, zero tolerance QA, metal lenses and such that drive those prices.
Great interview guys
One of the reasons I sold my Leica L lenses: No aperture ring. Since the amount of control options on the SL cameras is already a bit limited compared to for example the S1, not having that is just dumb. The M-mount is just not for me, the main problem being the combination of manual focus and off axis viewfinder. M lenses on the SL is the best of both worlds in my mind but still comes with challenges. Minimum focus distance for example. And with those issues the amount of money you have to put down makes it a tough sell, literally.
That is where Sigma lenses come to play. Most of them have an aperturering and very close focus distance. the contemporary series fits the Sl bodys very nice.
I am left eyed and always felt uncomfortable with the Leica film camera. Then I looked at the slides and sold the photos and smiled. I am very happy with a Panasonic to use those lovely lenses. The Super-Elmars, Elmars and Hektors have a new life for me. Although I obscured the red dot because I did not want to be an Leica person. My first TL, I put a plastic cellphone type case on it. With a 23/3 on it, I could take it places serious cameras were not allowed. Since it used the screen for things, it passed inspection and sure got better photos than they thought my toy camera was capable of. :)
CL is the most easy operation APSC package. It is very light.
Great video!!!
I just feel that, a person who goes for a Leica doesn't strike me as someone who cares about the specs much.
One interesting side of Jordan’s bad cop role is that the criticism is common among many reviews I have seen. With the suggestions I have the impression all cameras would be similar/identical if implemented 😀 Thinking of his points on the M
My Q2 Monochrom was delivered in 3 business days.... Bummer you can't find one!
I hope someday I'll be able to afford M3
I have a film M and it is by far the best camera I've ever used.
The Leica shooting experience, ergonomics, and build quality are second to none! They may not have the fastest autofocus or the most featured pack, but they have really good glass, user interface, ISO performance, noise reduction, etc. Most important of all, very motivating and inspiring to bring it out every day wherever I go. Never regretted with Leica.
fan of its content, I have the Leica CL, and I love it, could you give it another chance please, maybe with other lenses, a big hug, God bless you
Last time I used a rangefinder camera was 1980, so I’ve already had that “experience”. Been there, done that.
Fantastic 2 shot!!
I thoroughly enjoyed this ... I'm not a dentist and but I really using my Leica gear ... no, it's not the best possible camera, as it was rightfully said, it's a unique experience.
Jordan's 'failure' in being the bad guy is awesome ... ;-)
I love Leica and used them since the 70’s and owned too many Leica cameras and lenses . Today I still has M Monochrom, M10 , Q , Q Monochrom and the disappointment CL which I bought for my wife because of small and light camera . But currently I don’t see the newer Leica that really worth for the price you pay .
Nice building there
Most people don't dislike Leica cameras, they dislike the attitude many Leica devotees have.
Most Leica devotees I know have a great attitude. All brands have bad-attitude fanboys.
Apart from the unique experience, you get a unique sensor. It's not the same Sony off the shelf that comes in 8 different bodies by different brands.
Wait, so Sony has discontinued its RX100 line ?
Good job guys! I think you captured the Leica ethos perfectly I want a Q2 colour myself and also dream about buying one every few months.
Q2 Monochrom is in stock at B&H right now.
How come you guys are there? any new Leica camera coming soon?
I was looking at getting the M11. But to my surprise, I have found out that so many people are having trouble with them and have to send them back for repair, I was very disappointed on learning this, so I will stick with my canon for now
And waiting months.. yes months for Leicas bullshit technicians to make an attempt to fix it. €8400 for a lemon.
Sony have phenomenal lenses and cost less … only difference is weight
Is there any RAW format that's not supported anymore?
Something like Leica M-P (Typ 240) would be so cool to own but even heavily used ones are so expensive
Love y'all
What wireless mics are you guys using?
I have an M10 and a Q2, I would love to have a Q2 equivalent with a 50mm lens....
They really do make the most beautiful cameras and lenses. But except for the SL, I personally find the handling to be unpleasant. I tried the Q2 with a grip and although it was much improved it still wasn’t amazing. Still worth going to a store and try them out. They’re pure beauty!
What? The SL has the best grip out of all the systems imo
You can't do IBIS without making the body thicker, which they just managed to get back to film camera size after 10 years of digital Ms.
It can be tools for pharmacists too. 😀
Will you be visiting Nikon HQ?
Never related so strongly to a remark in a DPReview video until Jordan deflatedly admitted to really wanting a Q2 monochrom.
🥺
The elephant in the room is the very probable Q3 with 60mpx sensor. All the logic is already in the M11 to have a digital crop to 35mm (38mpx) and 50mm (18mpx) in a Q3.
Now think of Fuji X100 style converters to be had for that Q3.
Huh!!! Sigma FP has shutter angle and separate menu for stills and video. You criticise Sigma earlier in the video but don’t know your details.
Do they still make those Leica earings? Asking for a friend.
No tilting screen is a killer for me. I loved my SL but not having a tilting screen meant I had to go back to Fuji which I love too. Great shame in my case
I've owned 2 leica's and now just have the one. I don't miss IS because the high ISO is superb, I do wish people would stop picking on dentists lol 😂 BTW why are you in Germany... something being released?
Great video as always 😊
Thanks! We were there for the 40th Leica Auction. It was an amazing event to witness!
"BTW why are you in Germany... something being released?" Lets' hope so, in my case it would be a Q with L or M mount.
I really don't understand what's up with Panasonic and PDAF or even implement LiDAR. They said with the GH6 as if they had already started the camera with CDAF and DFD but that's complete BS because people have been asking for a better tracking and continuous AF since the GH2 and PDAF has been out there for quite a while. There is no excuse to sticking with DFD. I understand the degradation of the quality argument but it's certainly not as big as a back and forth focus pulsing is distracting and bad.