Yeah , everybody got mad with this W build on Xul but they don't understand it's a build that only works in a specific team setting. And even in that case, the guys just have to back a little when he W in order not to feed his cd and it's over. Very cheesy but not so strong.
Kudos to Team Octalysis for playing something outside the meta, and to devastating effect. This sort of draft is great to see and keeps players on their toes. Hopefully it'll inspire other teams to also deviate from the norm.
Xul is great in TL but underperforming in HL because teammates have no idea how to play with him. I can easily soak 2 lanes, I inform my teammates about this at the beginning of the game, still they try to soak my lanes instead of doing something productive (camps/ganks).
You can still be left as xul to double soak and generate a big xp lead, only for the 4 man to just throw it all away by forcing pointless fights/fighting at a disadvantage, instead of playing steady and letting xul's xp pull them ahead.
But this is problem with every hero not just Xul.... I had games with Azmo when I was over 200k hero damage, top siege, top XP, lanes pushed, dunks killing left and right and we still lost because other 4 people turned off their brains and decided to trickle 1 by 1 one to stupid fights in the middle of nowhere for no reason whatsoever.
This to the 10th degree.. I like to Xul on Spiderqueen and usually 1st pick him and explain the strategy but teammates tend to be negative and abandon the plan if an inkling of it goes wrong. Not to mention our 4 man comps usually stink, its hard to put together a MT, AOE dmg, a dive and a support.. You'd be surprised how many people at high gold just don't understand that concept..
Haha, I've been playing Xul like this for so long... Same skin, even. Admittedly, this was primarily with a specialist focus, but with proper tanks taking focus, I could wade in and obliterate the enemy while they were focused on someone else. It's awesome to see that someone made him shine as a main tank. Not something you'd get to see in casual play, of course, but still awesome that it's happening somewhere.
When I first picked up Xul, in around GM tier QM games (no one was on, otherwise was about High Diamond typically, in middle of night / very early morning, on a day that most people would be asleep), I used this build b/c I thought it might be good (didn't know that it was selected by a pro team). The benefits are the sustain, extremely high damage, and wave-clear, but it definitely has some MASSIVE failings versus things like Ana, or just general sustainability (ridiculous amount of mana expenditures; you go oom really, really quick). The secondary counter would be anything that can root you in place, and keep you there away from things to heal from (if you can't attack enemies, Heroes in particular, you can't survive for all that long; situational build and survivability).
@ 6:14 Tyrande throws an owl to reveal the fountain so the mercenary camp can attack over the wall without having to go into lane. Just thought some of you might be interested in being made aware to this. Small things like this really make the difference and often go unnoticed.
the best thing ever is playing this build against a team that doesn't understand your power spike when ineffectually contested, overextending to the far side of an enemy keep and abusing the skele spawn to keep myself solvent by clearing their minions as they come, and poking at the fort while I wait for someone to come try to and push me off it, only for me to pop Cursed and position myself so I hit the enemy hero AND the fort, power myself up on them and then beat their fort down crazy fast while they watch, helpless. I've literally bone prism'd and then skeletal mage'd an enemy Brightwing to the side of their own fort and used them like a sacrificial puppet to empower my fort tear-down it was glorious
update: I failed miserably. I picked Xul in team league on spider queen map, and we had an abathur last pick, so two specialists, but I thought, fk it, it might still work. some 10 mins in I complained because aba had sub 10k hero and shields combined, he then complained about me ofc and eventually we lost. At one point I was top of hero, siege and xp gain on the charts, but I suppose I wasn't "impactful" enough for this bronze hell I sit in, so that doesn't count. At the end aba surpassed my siege by small margin, but who cares rly, since its a loss and he ended with only ~2k shielding. So yeah, lost some other games on draft and....bronze is hell...Played one HL and had a nice win (gold 4), but if I dare to win few more I'll get the same type of retards I got in those team league games where I feel I can't do much the blizzard found the right clowns to piss me off and make me lose.
You can go to the Heroes Esports channel. There are all the videos of every match of HGC (also set up in playlist) and i'm sure u can find this match and the scoreboard at the end xD
Leftovers played him against Team Dignitas and actually had a pretty good game, until one pivital point (I wont spoil it) If you haven't watched the game, I highly recommend it. Game number three from Sunday,Sep 16.
I would love for more of this kind of build variety. Instead of just buffing/agumenting your main abilities for somewhat different playstyles while still fulfilling the same role, blizzard could add talents that drastically change up the role the hero fulfills. And for the record, I don't mean varian-like multiclass (however I wouldn't mind more) but kind of like this xul. An example that comes to mind is magefalstad vs AAfalstad. Imagine being able to pick uther and becoming a main tank instead of just a not-so-squishy support? Or an actually damage Lucio build(250% AA damage increase while wall riding is an idea of mine)? Or a Tassadar that can go full on mage with ramped up psi storm build instead of the normal utility hero he has been. Why not a Zagara that gains transfusion and grants passive bonuses to allies on creep to become a support? The possibilities...
Amazing analisis as usual Paradox. I always find very interesting how the pro teams can get away with strategies like this one just becouse how cordinate they are.
Been running this W build (with some flexibility at 1 (damage or slowing), 10 (usually Mages), 16 (armor break or bone spear), and 20 (healing suppression usually) depending on the situation) since his rework. Especially on Infernal Shrines (his map imo) and Tomb (a tad bit riskier since it's so small and it's easier to set up rotation ganks). Not as a main tank , but just a badass dbl soaker and camp taker that eventually has a scary front line presence. Most games if you are able to secure that healthy XP lead early you can bury them in an XP deficit that they are forced to play catch up while you run away with all the camps and maintain complete map control. The power spike at 13 (attack speed) lots of ppl never seem to expect and he can 1v3 in some cases if they lack blinds, stuns, or focused burst. Post 7 and especially 13, I like to wade into a fight already in progress for the element of surprise and to avoid burst and CC and lay waste or force them to retreat. If you are successful you will see the team start gunning for you first then you really have to be careful. Teams that know this strategy will draft a hyper mobile burst +lockdown team (Lucio Kerrigan Arthas Cassia Alarak Dehaka Jo Etc, etc :D) that can suppress you from feeling safe during rotations in the early game while keeping up on XP. Your own team, best case scenario, will roam as a 4 man doing other camps and keeping big pressure on thin lanes. I hope this build doesn't get too popular because Blizz will most likely nerf it to mediocrity once the internet complains for too long.
I play this build since his rework. Nothing new for me. The biggest thing is that most of my teammates often dont know I am this tanky and sometimes just abondon me in the thick of it, thinking I am completly lost. Got a 60% WR on Xul still. Xul has possibly the best push power in the whole game and that always lured me.
It's always so satisfying to find a fully intact, undefended 5-part wall. And bringing all of it down in seconds... then leaving before anyone can respond. lol
@@eds7228 Absolutely, it's a cookie cutter build, but still I didn't see many pick it. Presumably because it wasn't meta enough. Ya Xul WANTS more minions coming up to the gate while scything it down for more cannon fodder. xD
sylvanas is the best pusher. even without mind controlling the enemy waves. just stopping the towers is enough to destroy a lane singlehandedly within a few wave if unopposed.. she can even destroy a lane from lvl 1 with no talent pick if left alone
i can imagine that its getting funny when you throw a mephisto in the game, when xul and yrel are in already-. I play xul kinda the same way as the guy does in the example... hmm at the moment though im trying tout the effectiveness of picking shackler> skeletal mages> executioner> and amplify damage, depending on the development of the round.... what do you think about that build independently of the constellation of the team which we are seeing here right now?
Why do you call him “main tank”? he is just a frontline bruiser along with yrel. He doesnt engage, he doesnt soak that much dmg (compared to yrel), he doesnt really playmake. just a frontline hero. Xul is supposed to be played like this: frontline + doublesoak. Artanis is like that but instead of waveclear he has playmake ability - prism great video though. Just weird hearing “main tank” expression
tank is a slang term anyway and has no real meaning actually now that i think of it, its a metaphor for the real life tank, which is correctly named since the real life tank is mostly a giant metal can.
Could you do a video about team comps? I know you've done a lot of great videos about certain heroes -and team comps is massive subject -but I feel like a lot of people (myself included) either lose from the draft, or FEEL like they've lost from the draft. As a side note, I'm curious about your thoughts on team comps with specific regard to early game vs late game vs hybrid. Do you think its best to build a team full of heroes that are strong early game? Or snowball and build to be strong late game? Or is a mix of both types best so you don't lose on either end. Thanks for all your great vids and keep it up! Nice community you've got.
I think you missed the fact that you can get 5 basic attacks empowered by cursed strikes during one cast, so you only have to hit an average of 2.5 enemies per swing to reset it
Would you be willing to do a series in which you analyze professional level games from a basic level perspective so people like myself who don't really play the game but would be interested in investing time into watching and understanding the game as an e-sport? I would love to be able to watch high level play of this game and understand why certain decisions are good or bad so I know what to look for during tournaments, but since I'm not that interested in playing the game myself it is difficult for me to understand or analyze it as a spectator. I would really enjoy a video series looking at the high level matches and explaining specifically what decisions are being made by the players and why, with maybe a ramp up to more advance analysis as the series progresses. Either way, thank you for taking the time to put content like this together.
I really dont think that it is possible at all to understand all the ingame decisions without actually playing HOTS. There is too much happeniing in fights/rotations even in draft to be pointed out by the commentators - there just isnt enough time to do so. And to understand for yourself you'd have to know all the talents of each hero and positioning for each role etc...Theres no way you can see/understand these things watching a pro replay/live stream without actually playing the game and spending much time doing so. =)
Xul players commenting like pros never caught onto w build. What makes this viable to main tank now and not before is the comboing of w build with dual OP supports like cain, whitemane, tyrande rework and/or yrel which wasn't available before
Blinds are good against Kharazim, but it's not like they stop him from healing. If my team didn't have an adc, I'd be happy if the enemy team picked a blind against me. lol
I think the point is you don't really expect it coming in to the draft. It sounds like the conditions have to be just right, like getting Yrel + Tyrande and the enemy team doesn't have blinds, then you can late pick Xul instead of a tank. Sort of like a late pick Butcher/insert niche hero with hard counters.
You know, it might just be my love for the kit and tanking, but I could understand a Necromancer as a Tank. VERY hopeful wishing, even with class reworks coming up.
Tyrande kept him alive in alot of those fights, the healing numbers were from her auto attacks once she placed her HoT on him. Great video though, hope teams keep pushing out these fun comps
It has been years that I played Xul with this build :') Never as a main tank since my team mates never understood that possibility but as an specialist the cleans line waiting that the enemy engage in bad fight to come from behind with skeletons mages and destroy them.
I found that a DVA really counters his W build. You throw your mages , root the target and pop W and hit as many targets as you can, but if DVA drops Xul's damage with her matrix, you wont heal for any life and die quickly.
Me and my friends once run Jaina, Kelthuzad, Valla, Azmodan, and me as Morales, we played safely, we just wavecleared, until Jaina got shield talent after that with my heals she got deep unlaeashed ring, while everybody focused me and jaina kelthuzad did crazy combo and valla finished, it always resulted in me getting killed and enemy teamwipe, it got us insane exp lead, even diablo got just bursted down in few seconds, and when we hit 16 diablo just started feeding.
I supported a xul doing this to opponents in quick play. With a support who can protect him while he swings, he's very strong. Can easily tank a 3 man gank with two people.
When xul got reworked I tried this build and the result was terrible, but I definitely never had a project the xul comp. That makes all the difference. I'm thinking here best counter top him would be blinds. He doesn't heal, he doesn't get attack speed and no CDR
There is when your bans take the job, but the scary thing here is this draft is like same draft to use hammer, also in those 2 maps hammer works great. Both drafts depends a lot on yrel and deckard as top playmaking and armor duty, so even then you can think on a Chen main tank or even Blaze main tank, like all they lack yrel and deckard make them playable. Chen main tank???? im thinking now on it a second time, and like it a lot. Even you can think about Rexxar! Is scary how much Yrel+Deckard can set up, illidan main tank???? maybe i just go too ham, but illidan with lifesteal, shields and 35 armor, mmmmmm.
Every xul player knows about w build. It wasn't until after the release of OP supports like cain, tyrande rework, whitemane, and yrel +35 armor talent that made w build viable to main tank at the pro level.
I'm fresh at the game but xul is one of my main beside nazeebo. And I find myself doing this tank build before seeing ur video ... I dont see how people dont even use that build.. hes tanky sustainable and decent dps. Anyways good video ty
eric Ramezany they did and they told us about it. Issue with xul before the rework was that he didnt do anything except double soaking. That’s why they made him a decent frontline hero
Not sure how well Malfurion holds up against concentrated burst, though. Malfurion doesn't completely eliminate mana problems either, especially since Xul is supposed to be acting separately from the team in the early game, so not part of the 4man. As NotParadox pointed out, Octalysis only picks him if they can also get a pick like Yrel/Medivh/Tyrande to counteract the burst/mobility problem. At least to my knowledge, Malfurion is neither particularly good at countering single target burst nor does he provide mobility to the team.
I hear you. Thinking outside the box and having fun with theory is all. Maybe fit Malf in where the Deckard is, just to help with some mana. Especially if your're not taking fights until after 7. Also, if mobility and armor are desired (10:50 in the video), wouldn't Lucio with the SB ulty be an option? He gives a knockback, gives ult armor and could move Xul around the map and easily break away back to the core of the team. Plus can heal a decent amount.
Yrel made him ridiculous, without the super armor he's mediocre at self-sustain something like Thrall and honestly if anyone gets nerf would (and should) be Yrel IMO
Forget about tanky zul, running two supports in this day and age, and even with tyrande's awful nerfed damage since her recent rework, and Cain is definitely one of the lower damage supports unless you're running stone curse.
love the blue build, try to get myself out of silver last 2 seasons ago with this build, but the system wont let me, once i get on a winning streak, they insert AFK, or really bad player into my team. or ruins my promo game every time.
Incoming nerf to Xul if the pros are doing the thing now? i've seen this happen all the time in QM and he is a monster as a tank. I guess cause the match up only happens in Qm there wasn't much reason to look at Xul as a problem tank when he shouldn't be. Thanks Octalysis now everyone knows his secret! D:
Yrel has good waveclear, and can take down merc camps super fast, and can do minion obj really fast with her holy wrath talent (the one that makes her auto splash).
To be fair its Double Support "Main Tank" xul. His e makes him viable AS a Tank with enough Support and i think it shows really good how important Wave clear is in this game
Oh then i guess as a new player i should just take the tags with a grain of salt? Im mainly a wow player and my comments are from a place where in wow if you do something they do not intend for you to do they hot fix it or ban you. I guess it HoTs things are more vague?
It's not Xul fault, it's Yrel, and honestly the 35 armor thing on her E is super ridiculous, should be brought down somewhat, and think it will be just a matter of time till it goes down to 25 IMO.. They might increase the duration in return though so ppl wouldn't always not pick the talent though
There are some games with only one healer and no other warrior: ruclips.net/video/7vR2Kz3-WlQ/видео.html ruclips.net/video/DJudatldmvA/видео.html ruclips.net/video/m1NApC3s5mQ/видео.html
Could you maybe for next time instead of saying just: "He healed for 119..." and so on, elaborate on it, say, every AA hit heals him for (X)% of his max HP? Doubt anyone can easily tell what those numbers mean in game where HP and damage are dynamic.
It's even more pointless when you count in that they are running with double support (Deckard and Tyrande), it doesn't really tell you how much he healed from his lifesteal compared to their healing.
What makes you say it's a "casual" game? You play against other players, so it's just as difficult as any other MOBA or a physical sport. Or what do you mean with "casual"? What makes one game casual and one HARDCORE? Also yes these "pros" get paid for playing, hence they are professionals. Pro doesn't imply being the best necessarily, just good enough to play for a living.
He's not a tank. But a great spec. He can't face a team without other frontliners regardless of that w build. Please stop calling him a tank or I'll start calling medhiv a healer
![Why the Pros Play Alarak (Specifically Rich) [An analytical look at pro play]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TjUG_IS0mtk/mqdefault.jpg)
If I find even a single Xul who pretends to be a main tank in my HL comp i'm gonna be so mad at you.
I make your words mine.
Hear hear
I read you and share your fear.
Yeah , everybody got mad with this W build on Xul but they don't understand it's a build that only works in a specific team setting. And even in that case, the guys just have to back a little when he W in order not to feed his cd and it's over. Very cheesy but not so strong.
What do you mean I can't play as main tank Xul on battlefield of eternity....
Kudos to Team Octalysis for playing something outside the meta, and to devastating effect. This sort of draft is great to see and keeps players on their toes. Hopefully it'll inspire other teams to also deviate from the norm.
Xul is great in TL but underperforming in HL because teammates have no idea how to play with him. I can easily soak 2 lanes, I inform my teammates about this at the beginning of the game, still they try to soak my lanes instead of doing something productive (camps/ganks).
Can attest, had a Xul tell us he is soaking mid and top and our team got so mad at him for not solo laning a single lane. If it works it works.
Try playing something that cannot soak lanes at all. Suddenly 2 lanes are empty because this is the time we need to 4 man from level 1. ;)
You can still be left as xul to double soak and generate a big xp lead, only for the 4 man to just throw it all away by forcing pointless fights/fighting at a disadvantage, instead of playing steady and letting xul's xp pull them ahead.
But this is problem with every hero not just Xul.... I had games with Azmo when I was over 200k hero damage, top siege, top XP, lanes pushed, dunks killing left and right and we still lost because other 4 people turned off their brains and decided to trickle 1 by 1 one to stupid fights in the middle of nowhere for no reason whatsoever.
This to the 10th degree.. I like to Xul on Spiderqueen and usually 1st pick him and explain the strategy but teammates tend to be negative and abandon the plan if an inkling of it goes wrong. Not to mention our 4 man comps usually stink, its hard to put together a MT, AOE dmg, a dive and a support.. You'd be surprised how many people at high gold just don't understand that concept..
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Haha, I've been playing Xul like this for so long... Same skin, even. Admittedly, this was primarily with a specialist focus, but with proper tanks taking focus, I could wade in and obliterate the enemy while they were focused on someone else. It's awesome to see that someone made him shine as a main tank. Not something you'd get to see in casual play, of course, but still awesome that it's happening somewhere.
When I first picked up Xul, in around GM tier QM games (no one was on, otherwise was about High Diamond typically, in middle of night / very early morning, on a day that most people would be asleep), I used this build b/c I thought it might be good (didn't know that it was selected by a pro team).
The benefits are the sustain, extremely high damage, and wave-clear, but it definitely has some MASSIVE failings versus things like Ana, or just general sustainability (ridiculous amount of mana expenditures; you go oom really, really quick). The secondary counter would be anything that can root you in place, and keep you there away from things to heal from (if you can't attack enemies, Heroes in particular, you can't survive for all that long; situational build and survivability).
@ 6:14 Tyrande throws an owl to reveal the fountain so the mercenary camp can attack over the wall without having to go into lane. Just thought some of you might be interested in being made aware to this. Small things like this really make the difference and often go unnoticed.
the best thing ever is playing this build against a team that doesn't understand your power spike when ineffectually contested, overextending to the far side of an enemy keep and abusing the skele spawn to keep myself solvent by clearing their minions as they come, and poking at the fort while I wait for someone to come try to and push me off it, only for me to pop Cursed and position myself so I hit the enemy hero AND the fort, power myself up on them and then beat their fort down crazy fast while they watch, helpless.
I've literally bone prism'd and then skeletal mage'd an enemy Brightwing to the side of their own fort and used them like a sacrificial puppet to empower my fort tear-down
it was glorious
every day there is new video from notparadox and I go...sweet, gotta start up hots and play that hero from the video, and then I fail miserably in qm
update: I failed miserably. I picked Xul in team league on spider queen map, and we had an abathur last pick, so two specialists, but I thought, fk it, it might still work. some 10 mins in I complained because aba had sub 10k hero and shields combined, he then complained about me ofc and eventually we lost. At one point I was top of hero, siege and xp gain on the charts, but I suppose I wasn't "impactful" enough for this bronze hell I sit in, so that doesn't count. At the end aba surpassed my siege by small margin, but who cares rly, since its a loss and he ended with only ~2k shielding. So yeah, lost some other games on draft and....bronze is hell...Played one HL and had a nice win (gold 4), but if I dare to win few more I'll get the same type of retards I got in those team league games where I feel I can't do much the blizzard found the right clowns to piss me off and make me lose.
Never do qm unless you're with a Team trying a new comp ;)
I waited for you to show Scoreboard, but you never do that in your videos. I wanted to see how much siege damage he dealt.
You can go to the Heroes Esports channel. There are all the videos of every match of HGC (also set up in playlist) and i'm sure u can find this match and the scoreboard at the end xD
You can also check out masterleague.net/
They have tons of pro replay-file and you can download and watch them any time you want. =)
Leftovers played him against Team Dignitas and actually had a pretty good game, until one pivital point (I wont spoil it)
If you haven't watched the game, I highly recommend it. Game number three from Sunday,Sep 16.
I would love for more of this kind of build variety. Instead of just buffing/agumenting your main abilities for somewhat different playstyles while still fulfilling the same role, blizzard could add talents that drastically change up the role the hero fulfills. And for the record, I don't mean varian-like multiclass (however I wouldn't mind more) but kind of like this xul. An example that comes to mind is magefalstad vs AAfalstad. Imagine being able to pick uther and becoming a main tank instead of just a not-so-squishy support? Or an actually damage Lucio build(250% AA damage increase while wall riding is an idea of mine)? Or a Tassadar that can go full on mage with ramped up psi storm build instead of the normal utility hero he has been. Why not a Zagara that gains transfusion and grants passive bonuses to allies on creep to become a support?
The possibilities...
I am actually happy that you made this, because I had just heard about this strat.
Amazing analisis as usual Paradox. I always find very interesting how the pro teams can get away with strategies like this one just becouse how cordinate they are.
Been running this W build (with some flexibility at 1 (damage or slowing), 10 (usually Mages), 16 (armor break or bone spear), and 20 (healing suppression usually) depending on the situation) since his rework. Especially on Infernal Shrines (his map imo) and Tomb (a tad bit riskier since it's so small and it's easier to set up rotation ganks). Not as a main tank , but just a badass dbl soaker and camp taker that eventually has a scary front line presence. Most games if you are able to secure that healthy XP lead early you can bury them in an XP deficit that they are forced to play catch up while you run away with all the camps and maintain complete map control. The power spike at 13 (attack speed) lots of ppl never seem to expect and he can 1v3 in some cases if they lack blinds, stuns, or focused burst.
Post 7 and especially 13, I like to wade into a fight already in progress for the element of surprise and to avoid burst and CC and lay waste or force them to retreat. If you are successful you will see the team start gunning for you first then you really have to be careful. Teams that know this strategy will draft a hyper mobile burst +lockdown team (Lucio Kerrigan Arthas Cassia Alarak Dehaka Jo Etc, etc :D) that can suppress you from feeling safe during rotations in the early game while keeping up on XP. Your own team, best case scenario, will roam as a 4 man doing other camps and keeping big pressure on thin lanes.
I hope this build doesn't get too popular because Blizz will most likely nerf it to mediocrity once the internet complains for too long.
This is how I've been playing Xul for about 6 months :P
Well, not as a main tank in a coordinated team, but this build. Super fun when it works :D
I play this build since his rework. Nothing new for me. The biggest thing is that most of my teammates often dont know I am this tanky and sometimes just abondon me in the thick of it, thinking I am completly lost. Got a 60% WR on Xul still. Xul has possibly the best push power in the whole game and that always lured me.
It's always so satisfying to find a fully intact, undefended 5-part wall. And bringing all of it down in seconds... then leaving before anyone can respond. lol
I mean let’s not pretend that it wasn’t an intended build lol this is literally just picking synergistic talents
@@eds7228 Absolutely, it's a cookie cutter build, but still I didn't see many pick it. Presumably because it wasn't meta enough. Ya Xul WANTS more minions coming up to the gate while scything it down for more cannon fodder. xD
Zag beats him by far in pushing lane power lol.. maybe not in cleaning the wave tho.
sylvanas is the best pusher. even without mind controlling the enemy waves. just stopping the towers is enough to destroy a lane singlehandedly within a few wave if unopposed.. she can even destroy a lane from lvl 1 with no talent pick if left alone
i can imagine that its getting funny when you throw a mephisto in the game, when xul and yrel are in already-.
I play xul kinda the same way as the guy does in the example... hmm at the moment though im trying tout the effectiveness of picking shackler> skeletal mages> executioner> and amplify damage, depending on the development of the round.... what do you think about that build independently of the constellation of the team which we are seeing here right now?
Why do you call him “main tank”?
he is just a frontline bruiser along with yrel. He doesnt engage, he doesnt soak that much dmg (compared to yrel), he doesnt really playmake.
just a frontline hero. Xul is supposed to be played like this: frontline + doublesoak. Artanis is like that but instead of waveclear he has playmake ability - prism
great video though. Just weird hearing “main tank” expression
tank is a slang term anyway and has no real meaning
actually now that i think of it, its a metaphor for the real life tank, which is correctly named since the real life tank is mostly a giant metal can.
Main tank in this case means he drew all of the enemies attention on himself
i dont think the moba definition for tank is in the dictionary. hence i called it slang
Rémy Boivin
The holy trinity of tank,healer and dps exist only in HotS. Their is no tank role in other MOBAs.
Even World of Warcraft has tank, healer etc. its an general term.
Could you do a video about team comps? I know you've done a lot of great videos about certain heroes -and team comps is massive subject -but I feel like a lot of people (myself included) either lose from the draft, or FEEL like they've lost from the draft.
As a side note, I'm curious about your thoughts on team comps with specific regard to early game vs late game vs hybrid. Do you think its best to build a team full of heroes that are strong early game? Or snowball and build to be strong late game? Or is a mix of both types best so you don't lose on either end.
Thanks for all your great vids and keep it up! Nice community you've got.
I think you missed the fact that you can get 5 basic attacks empowered by cursed strikes during one cast, so you only have to hit an average of 2.5 enemies per swing to reset it
Oct pick zul in Hunted mines too ? Seems strong pick especially for the sapper camps
Would you be willing to do a series in which you analyze professional level games from a basic level perspective so people like myself who don't really play the game but would be interested in investing time into watching and understanding the game as an e-sport? I would love to be able to watch high level play of this game and understand why certain decisions are good or bad so I know what to look for during tournaments, but since I'm not that interested in playing the game myself it is difficult for me to understand or analyze it as a spectator. I would really enjoy a video series looking at the high level matches and explaining specifically what decisions are being made by the players and why, with maybe a ramp up to more advance analysis as the series progresses. Either way, thank you for taking the time to put content like this together.
I really dont think that it is possible at all to understand all the ingame decisions without actually playing HOTS. There is too much happeniing in fights/rotations even in draft to be pointed out by the commentators - there just isnt enough time to do so. And to understand for yourself you'd have to know all the talents of each hero and positioning for each role etc...Theres no way you can see/understand these things watching a pro replay/live stream without actually playing the game and spending much time doing so. =)
@NotParadox Do you happen to know what is the reason the professional teams seem to only select second ult?
Just a guess but probably because poison nova can be dodged...
Xul players commenting like pros never caught onto w build. What makes this viable to main tank now and not before is the comboing of w build with dual OP supports like cain, whitemane, tyrande rework and/or yrel which wasn't available before
I thought it was interesting comp when I watched it but thought that it could easily be defeated with drafting Johanna and Cassia.
Thought so too, even one blind might be enough, since it kills his CDR
Blinds are good against Kharazim, but it's not like they stop him from healing. If my team didn't have an adc, I'd be happy if the enemy team picked a blind against me. lol
I think the point is you don't really expect it coming in to the draft. It sounds like the conditions have to be just right, like getting Yrel + Tyrande and the enemy team doesn't have blinds, then you can late pick Xul instead of a tank. Sort of like a late pick Butcher/insert niche hero with hard counters.
Yea was wondering why he didnt mention blind as a counter to Xul
You know, it might just be my love for the kit and tanking, but I could understand a Necromancer as a Tank. VERY hopeful wishing, even with class reworks coming up.
Xul was my first main, and the very first hero I got to level 15. Haven't played him at all this year, I don't know why. I do miss him.
Tyrande kept him alive in alot of those fights, the healing numbers were from her auto attacks once she placed her HoT on him. Great video though, hope teams keep pushing out these fun comps
lol that's the build i have been playing with Xul from a while ago, nice video!
It has been years that I played Xul with this build :')
Never as a main tank since my team mates never understood that possibility but as an specialist the cleans line waiting that the enemy engage in bad fight to come from behind with skeletons mages and destroy them.
Isn't this only possible because we have enough powerful healers to go double healer and because tanks are mostly pretty weak right now?
Lvl 16 armor works quite well with the life steal % based talent. Improves his damage, therefore, improving his tanking ability a bit more.
What lvl 20 would u take??
where did you get the Replay file?
why is Uther no option for armor?
"Main tank Xul"
Immediately sees Yrel in first seconds.
I found that a DVA really counters his W build. You throw your mages , root the target and pop W and hit as many targets as you can, but if DVA drops Xul's damage with her matrix, you wont heal for any life and die quickly.
Me and my friends once run Jaina, Kelthuzad, Valla, Azmodan, and me as Morales, we played safely, we just wavecleared, until Jaina got shield talent after that with my heals she got deep unlaeashed ring, while everybody focused me and jaina kelthuzad did crazy combo and valla finished, it always resulted in me getting killed and enemy teamwipe, it got us insane exp lead, even diablo got just bursted down in few seconds, and when we hit 16 diablo just started feeding.
I supported a xul doing this to opponents in quick play. With a support who can protect him while he swings, he's very strong. Can easily tank a 3 man gank with two people.
When xul got reworked I tried this build and the result was terrible, but I definitely never had a project the xul comp. That makes all the difference.
I'm thinking here best counter top him would be blinds. He doesn't heal, he doesn't get attack speed and no CDR
There is when your bans take the job, but the scary thing here is this draft is like same draft to use hammer, also in those 2 maps hammer works great. Both drafts depends a lot on yrel and deckard as top playmaking and armor duty, so even then you can think on a Chen main tank or even Blaze main tank, like all they lack yrel and deckard make them playable. Chen main tank???? im thinking now on it a second time, and like it a lot. Even you can think about Rexxar! Is scary how much Yrel+Deckard can set up, illidan main tank???? maybe i just go too ham, but illidan with lifesteal, shields and 35 armor, mmmmmm.
What game is this?
So his basically like Illidan, needs proper set up to shine.
In my times I could carry with any comp, I don't like the new Illidan :c
I've been playing this build since the rework, did they really waited like two years to notice he has one of the best sustain builds in the game?
Every xul player knows about w build. It wasn't until after the release of OP supports like cain, tyrande rework, whitemane, and yrel +35 armor talent that made w build viable to main tank at the pro level.
SPOOKY TANK
I came here expecting to see a video about that Zandalari prophet and I have no idea what is going on.
I'm fresh at the game but xul is one of my main beside nazeebo. And I find myself doing this tank build before seeing ur video ... I dont see how people dont even use that build.. hes tanky sustainable and decent dps. Anyways good video ty
When will Octalysis start running Butcher comps?
They did do one once, forgot what team they did it against
Joh can solo clear camps pretty fast, need e talent on 4 and blessed momentum tho. Also allows her to wave clear as fast as Xul (e+w+q)
In terms of speed, yes. But she runs out of mana doing that. 3 abilities to clear a wave vs 1 ability.
But what makes him a tank? Any hero above 1700 HP becomes a tank when you pump them full of armor
I wonder if they designed him with this in mind
eric Ramezany they did and they told us about it. Issue with xul before the rework was that he didnt do anything except double soaking. That’s why they made him a decent frontline hero
Because Xul is melee Nazeebo can easily trap him with walls, tickle him with spiders, and give Ebola with toads?
Dis is a funny build for quickmatch xD thanks
Aside from the level 1, this is how I play him as a specialist. Granted, I never see anyone build a comp around a specialist in soloqueue.
i love this build...but i never thought using him as mian tank :D
Wow I thought I was the only one using Xul as a frontline with that build (of course not in ranked) that's funny
Nope, I play him like that too, more or less. I rarely have team support in casual play, but if the enemy doesn't focus you... Time for the harvest!
How is he the main tank when Yrel is doing all the things you expect from a tank for him?
Not to mention Ancient Blessings is Xul's wet dream here
If mana is an issue in this W build, seems like Malfurion might be a good choice to pair with Xul here maybe when you have Tyrande banned out.
Not sure how well Malfurion holds up against concentrated burst, though. Malfurion doesn't completely eliminate mana problems either, especially since Xul is supposed to be acting separately from the team in the early game, so not part of the 4man. As NotParadox pointed out, Octalysis only picks him if they can also get a pick like Yrel/Medivh/Tyrande to counteract the burst/mobility problem. At least to my knowledge, Malfurion is neither particularly good at countering single target burst nor does he provide mobility to the team.
I hear you. Thinking outside the box and having fun with theory is all. Maybe fit Malf in where the Deckard is, just to help with some mana. Especially if your're not taking fights until after 7.
Also, if mobility and armor are desired (10:50 in the video), wouldn't Lucio with the SB ulty be an option? He gives a knockback, gives ult armor and could move Xul around the map and easily break away back to the core of the team. Plus can heal a decent amount.
I have known of this build for a while and surprised they haven't nerfed it yet. It has only gotten stronger with the armor from the other teammates.
i wouldn't even say surprised they haven't nerfed it, he's hardly played so there isn't much of a reason to nerf him
It's because it only works on certain maps with certain team comps on coordinated teams.
I think more people will be trying this at all levels and maps if this is getting videos made about it.
Yrel made him ridiculous, without the super armor he's mediocre at self-sustain something like Thrall and honestly if anyone gets nerf would (and should) be Yrel IMO
Time to play Xul again
I'd call it main tank Yrel and double support to enable melee carry Xul
blind being his biggest weakness more so than anything
This is the exact build i play it's uber fun :)
I always use that build but never considerate myself as a tank :/
8:25 there were literally 2 left but all of your teammates choose to run away except stay a little bit while and take the objective.. lame
either way it didn't cost the game, i'll cheer to that. just leaving while there is only two left touching my nerves.
If I were the enemy team, I'd just draft a Valera. Open team-fights with a 3 second silence on him. He ded.
so a point and click root and a button that makes it so he can survive for 3 seconds is not what makes a main tank. and people wonder why its "NA LOL"
Forget about tanky zul, running two supports in this day and age, and even with tyrande's awful nerfed damage since her recent rework, and Cain is definitely one of the lower damage supports unless you're running stone curse.
I don't think it's all that strong - CC counters him so heavily, as it neuters his ability to heal heavily.
Isn't Arthas a main tank?
In HGC he is mostly played as an off-tank/ bruiser.
But I think in "uncoordinated" matches he can be a good main tank.
blinds? stuns? eh? thats what destroys me as xul. mostly if you just activated W then get stunned, get W on high cooldown
love the blue build, try to get myself out of silver last 2 seasons ago with this build, but the system wont let me, once i get on a winning streak, they insert AFK, or really bad player into my team. or ruins my promo game every time.
Incoming nerf to Xul if the pros are doing the thing now? i've seen this happen all the time in QM and he is a monster as a tank. I guess cause the match up only happens in Qm there wasn't much reason to look at Xul as a problem tank when he shouldn't be. Thanks Octalysis now everyone knows his secret! D:
Is this not normal? I've been doing this since he got released. I thought that was what everyone does.
Yrel has good waveclear, and can take down merc camps super fast, and can do minion obj really fast with her holy wrath talent (the one that makes her auto splash).
if Xul gets shielded by tass, he would heal even more since the W aoe is physical damage
Hmm... Good point you bring up here. I think his W-"splash" is ability-damage. But I'm not sure about that...
no it isnt
BOWLCUT MULLET GOD thanks =)
ive been using this build for a long time now, its great but i imagine nerfs incoming.
Only change, you need to get bone spear. It is so good.
To be fair its Double Support "Main Tank" xul.
His e makes him viable AS a Tank with enough Support and i think it shows really good how important Wave clear is in this game
That build is so mana hungry.
I Prefer Poison Nova for more damage over time and more fun :)
I did that build the day his rework happen
if his heals are based on his auto attacks, i'll just draft lili
Got it! Main tank xul no matter what my team mates say!
In b4 Xul rework because Blizzard did not intend for you to play Xul like this.
Why is he listed as a specialist then?
Oh then i guess as a new player i should just take the tags with a grain of salt? Im mainly a wow player and my comments are from a place where in wow if you do something they do not intend for you to do they hot fix it or ban you. I guess it HoTs things are more vague?
It's not Xul fault, it's Yrel, and honestly the 35 armor thing on her E is super ridiculous, should be brought down somewhat, and think it will be just a matter of time till it goes down to 25 IMO.. They might increase the duration in return though so ppl wouldn't always not pick the talent though
I found this out months ago i think,have 90% winrate on him.
"Main Tank Xul" is useless. Any good team is going to draft a hero with at least 1 CC ability, effectively shutting Xul down since he has no cleanse.
I think ishb00 played xul main tank 1st
B O N E P R I S M
*C A L C I U M P R I S M*
Siiiiiiiiick :D
but any1 with sustain and decent health can tank when they have 2 good real healers supporting them
There are some games with only one healer and no other warrior:
ruclips.net/video/7vR2Kz3-WlQ/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/DJudatldmvA/видео.html
ruclips.net/video/m1NApC3s5mQ/видео.html
My team runs this in NGS. Works extremely well if you are coordinated and ban well
Could you maybe for next time instead of saying just: "He healed for 119..." and so on, elaborate on it, say, every AA hit heals him for (X)% of his max HP?
Doubt anyone can easily tell what those numbers mean in game where HP and damage are dynamic.
It's even more pointless when you count in that they are running with double support (Deckard and Tyrande), it doesn't really tell you how much he healed from his lifesteal compared to their healing.
Yo lemme get BONEprisonLESS pizza
Hots "pros" lmao. I'll never understand going "pro" in these casual games. It's like going pro in candy crush
What makes you say it's a "casual" game? You play against other players, so it's just as difficult as any other MOBA or a physical sport.
Or what do you mean with "casual"? What makes one game casual and one HARDCORE?
Also yes these "pros" get paid for playing, hence they are professionals. Pro doesn't imply being the best necessarily, just good enough to play for a living.
He's not a tank. But a great spec. He can't face a team without other frontliners regardless of that w build. Please stop calling him a tank or I'll start calling medhiv a healer
NA LUL
You probably live in NA.
OFC Kappa
now xul will be nerfed to the ground
this wont work against korean teams at all