Rigveda 10.71.3 tells Rishis got vision of Vedic richas and then they transferred this to the world . Also Kaushitaki Brahman 10.30 & Aitreya Brahman 3.9 reiterates that there was a vision of Vedic richas to the Rishis
Coincidently, I was reading Sankhya Darshan a few days ago for this topic and found that Sankhya do talk about vedas(I will make a video on that providing reference), Aham brahmasmi is 'brahmavat' not 'I am brahma.' . This man has just a little knowledge in this field. Manusmriti, Ramayan, Mahabharat and all major scriptures said that Vedas are APAURUSHEYA. One should read 'Rigvedadi Bhashya Bhumika' for this matter.
It doesn't matter Vedas are man made as any other religious scripture. I respect vedas it has many good things , spirituality, it is the bed rock of indian civilization but it is man made.
@@punyashloka4946 I'm not "believing" it I know it! Amd it's written in the vedas itself moreover be respectful in your conversation especially when you are talking about a sacred scripture.
@@JAKELEVANFIECHTER Yeah Muslims also know that Quran is the word of God that doesn't make it true, so whatever 🙄. I don't think Vedas are absolutely divine it has man made contribution. But you can believe whatever you want I don't care.
The problem is that western people don't understand this concept! Apurushya in this reference is a state of mind...Everyone can agree that when you have an insight...you need to be in this 'Mind's Zone'! To be in this by Self discipline and by being in this Sattvic State of Mind! Nevertheless it is clearly a 'Human Endeavor'! Comparing this to an Abrahmic discipline is an Oxymoron' Effort! I will give you an example.. When you get a blessing from your Guru...You should not be looking for a thing...called Blessing!!!!
But thats not how orthodox hindus explain vedas, we hindus can understand this what Apuraushaya means but there are orthodox hindus who explains differently, blaming Koenraad is of no use.
Dr. Elst has my most sincere respect for his scholarlyness. He is among the finest intellectuals whose wisdom is not coloured by any kind of bias. First time I disagree with him. Vedas are indeed APOURUSHEYA. Everyone just compiled what existed already.
16:55 I would say the mantras are being “seen” through “pratibha”. Many fiction or poetry writers say that they don’t know where it comes from. Similarly people who create maths or see theorems also don’t know how it comes to them. There is no guaranteed method to teach. In this sense it is a divine. Maths genius Ramanujan used to say that the maths he did was revealed to him by a goddess. So when a Vedic poet may say he is (merely) a mantradrusta, he is talking about this mysterious phenomenon of creativity.
But in that sense, Vedic verses wouldn't be extraordinary or divine because by this definition, revealtion is not a unique phenomenon as a lot of people like poets and mathematicians as you say have revelations.
But the Shrutis are a different category. These sounds exist in nature and can be heard through Antah Shravana (Inner years) and hence are called Shruti. What they heard inside manifested through their voice without distortion and without their effort and hence they are called Apaurusheya. On the other hand, what was revealed to Ramanujam and other pets etc., goes through the processing of their minds and intellect and there is an effort put in by the poet / mathematician before that knowledge is revealed to the public. Hence it is Paurusheya. Even Kalidasa's Kavyas were composed based on divine inspiration. Maharshi Valmiki "Saw" Ramayana inside him through Tapo Drishti and he didn't create it. The verses were inspired by Brahma's boon. In spite of it, there was an effort by Valmiki to compose Ramayana and hence we don't call it Apaurusheya, but an equivalent to Shruti (Not Shruti itslef).
13:00 The Pre-Muhammadan Arabia, the Goddess 'AL-Lat' looks more like Goddess Swaraswati with a musical instrument, and 'AL-Uzza' and 'Manat' looks like Goddess Durga with Kartik and Ganesh in her both sides and in front a Lion as her Mount.
When you consider the complexity of Sanskrit with its grammer and vocal inclusions, and the condition of present day languages, we can say that Sanskrit is very advanced and beyond the typical uncultured languages, and represent Sruthi.
5:41 - sorry, but I really think he, the scholar, may have misheard you and talked about stuti rather that sruti. Stuti = glorify, sruti is related to shravana etc.
I disagree with the last part of the video where he accused that Upper Caste had invented the caste system and called it Divine because of their some ulterior motives. If you read Smritis, you'll clearly understand that the life of Brahmins were the toughest.. so what they'll get by introducing a system which gives that much duties to perform.. And not all the Mantras of Veda can be called Human creation because The Philosophy of Advaita Vedanta can not be created by human mind, it was realised by our Rishis and then they wrote that in the form of Mantras.. So the knowledge of Veda can be called "Apaurusheya".
The problem is that western people don't understand this concept! Everyone can agree that when you have an insight...you need to be in this 'Mind's Zone'! To be in this by Self discipline and by being in this Sattvic State of Mind! Nevertheless it is clearly a 'Human Endeavor'! Comparing this to an Abrahmic discipline is an Oxymoron' Effort!
@@djsunshine1 The knowledge of Veda cannot be found by being in any kind of state of mind. This can only be seen without mind and intellect, that's why it's not a Human creation. And of course, it's human endeavor, Humans tried to acquire that knowledge, hence they got that knowledge. But this doesn't mean that The knowledge is human creation, it's not.
25:50 the Iranian tribes you mentioned could have also left India. Equally likely. There doesn’t seem to be memory in Rigveda of seasons across from Hindukush. For example there is no Shishir in Rigveda, but there is Pravrush and Varsha.
43:49 what probably contributed to this was the language changed considerably and people stopped understanding the Vedic poetry. It became a godly language.
He is just discussing his ideas on it. There isn't right or wrong here. Also, Elst even though may take certain stances, which don't align with tradition, he is still sympathetic of them.
Lack of understanding of Apaurusheyatva does not prove absence of Apaurusheyatva. Only an understanding of deep states of Yoga, especially witnessing Yogis in Samadhi-Jagrith states can differentiate between manifestation and creation. We are not fools not to understand such a common sensical thing that the book has an author. This is why there are specific Grantha Karthas for Smrithi, Itihasa, Purana, Shastra and Kavya. When there is acknowledgement of books and the authorship of these books for millenia, why is there a separate category "Shruthi" which is considered Apaurusheya? Any boy without qualification but has common sense will think twice before thinking dismissively about this category simply because the other category also exists. "Shruti" existed as Akhanda Veda Rashi and it is only after Veda Vyasa and his Shishyas seggregated them, they took the form of books. Otherwise, Vedas existed as bunch of unassorted Mantras that are attributed to the Rishis who are called Mantra Drashtaras (Not authors of Mantras). The one who has "Seen" that Mantra within and the Mantra emanated first from that person and got revealed to others through him. So, the Rishi whose name we take before chanting the Mantra is the vehicle for the Mantra to manifest and become known in the physical world. The Rishi did not, through his effort create this Mantra and hence it is not Paurusheya. It happened without human effort and hence it is Apaurusheya.
Vedas are eternal ! Why ? Not because of super power it will be eternal By PPL wisdom contribution it will be eternal and that PPL are divine who contribute the Vedas to be eternal upto end of mankind.
Mr Bhagvat ...I believe that everyone who has Indian heritage or at least who is living in Hindustan are Hindus. It makes sense politically...as it is said...all politics is local!
🙄 Sharia is a law. Whereas Shastra is an analysis or a practical approach. Sharia impose ideology. Shastra explains the behavioral nature of existence. Manava Dharma Shastra and Manu Smriti are not the same. Those are two different things. Does this guy really know what he speak about?😂😅
Humble Request Quran Has Been Written More Than 36 Times Research Persian High Priest Was Guru Of Mohd Initiated Groomed Taught Teachings of Life and said to spread them after his death but have no Ego That they are Mohd teachings or teachings will get Reversed Mohd disobeyed His Guru Rest Is History
This man is an excellent idiotic example of how one who is not born and raised in tradition parampara should never be given this knowledge. Who gave him the authority to speak on Vedas coming from west he is teaching us that Vedas are not Apaurusheya
Yes based on a single name you decided all his stance and what all the paths he is going to take with this subject, either you are a genius or stupid idiot who does not much but likes to put people in a box, so its easy on you cognition instead of debating the ideas with good arguments
Rigveda 10.71.3 tells Rishis got vision of Vedic richas and then they transferred this to the world . Also Kaushitaki Brahman 10.30 & Aitreya Brahman 3.9 reiterates that there was a vision of Vedic richas to the Rishis
मंत्र लिखो
क्योंकि वेद यह बातें नहीं बताते
Coincidently, I was reading Sankhya Darshan a few days ago for this topic and found that Sankhya do talk about vedas(I will make a video on that providing reference),
Aham brahmasmi is 'brahmavat' not 'I am brahma.'
.
This man has just a little knowledge in this field. Manusmriti, Ramayan, Mahabharat and all major scriptures said that Vedas are APAURUSHEYA.
One should read 'Rigvedadi Bhashya Bhumika' for this matter.
It doesn't matter Vedas are man made as any other religious scripture. I respect vedas it has many good things , spirituality, it is the bed rock of indian civilization but it is man made.
@@punyashloka4946 it's not, it was existing in the universe before mankind and was revealed to different sages after they became 100% holy.
@@JAKELEVANFIECHTERYou can believe in whatever bullshit you want to believe, I don't care.
@@punyashloka4946 I'm not "believing" it I know it! Amd it's written in the vedas itself moreover be respectful in your conversation especially when you are talking about a sacred scripture.
@@JAKELEVANFIECHTER Yeah Muslims also know that Quran is the word of God that doesn't make it true, so whatever 🙄. I don't think Vedas are absolutely divine it has man made contribution. But you can believe whatever you want I don't care.
The problem is that western people don't understand this concept! Apurushya in this reference is a state of mind...Everyone can agree that when you have an insight...you need to be in this 'Mind's Zone'! To be in this by Self discipline and by being in this Sattvic State of Mind! Nevertheless it is clearly a 'Human Endeavor'!
Comparing this to an Abrahmic discipline is an Oxymoron' Effort!
I will give you an example.. When you get a blessing from your Guru...You should not be looking for a thing...called Blessing!!!!
But thats not how orthodox hindus explain vedas, we hindus can understand this what Apuraushaya means but there are orthodox hindus who explains differently, blaming Koenraad is of no use.
@@punyashloka4946 And who exactly are those "orthodox" Hindus?
This topic need a debate to clear more misconceptions and biases
Dr. Elst has my most sincere respect for his scholarlyness. He is among the finest intellectuals whose wisdom is not coloured by any kind of bias.
First time I disagree with him. Vedas are indeed APOURUSHEYA. Everyone just compiled what existed already.
16:55 I would say the mantras are being “seen” through “pratibha”. Many fiction or poetry writers say that they don’t know where it comes from. Similarly people who create maths or see theorems also don’t know how it comes to them. There is no guaranteed method to teach. In this sense it is a divine. Maths genius Ramanujan used to say that the maths he did was revealed to him by a goddess. So when a Vedic poet may say he is (merely) a mantradrusta, he is talking about this mysterious phenomenon of creativity.
But in that sense, Vedic verses wouldn't be extraordinary or divine because by this definition, revealtion is not a unique phenomenon as a lot of people like poets and mathematicians as you say have revelations.
But the Shrutis are a different category. These sounds exist in nature and can be heard through Antah Shravana (Inner years) and hence are called Shruti. What they heard inside manifested through their voice without distortion and without their effort and hence they are called Apaurusheya. On the other hand, what was revealed to Ramanujam and other pets etc., goes through the processing of their minds and intellect and there is an effort put in by the poet / mathematician before that knowledge is revealed to the public. Hence it is Paurusheya. Even Kalidasa's Kavyas were composed based on divine inspiration. Maharshi Valmiki "Saw" Ramayana inside him through Tapo Drishti and he didn't create it. The verses were inspired by Brahma's boon. In spite of it, there was an effort by Valmiki to compose Ramayana and hence we don't call it Apaurusheya, but an equivalent to Shruti (Not Shruti itslef).
13:00 The Pre-Muhammadan Arabia, the Goddess 'AL-Lat' looks more like Goddess Swaraswati with a musical instrument, and 'AL-Uzza' and 'Manat' looks like Goddess Durga with Kartik and Ganesh in her both sides and in front a Lion as her Mount.
When you consider the complexity of Sanskrit with its grammer and vocal inclusions, and the condition of present day languages, we can say that Sanskrit is very advanced and beyond the typical uncultured languages, and represent Sruthi.
5:41 - sorry, but I really think he, the scholar, may have misheard you and talked about stuti rather that sruti. Stuti = glorify, sruti is related to shravana etc.
Sir, Vedas are mystery and we don't get anything by intellectually dissecting it,
I disagree with the last part of the video where he accused that Upper Caste had invented the caste system and called it Divine because of their some ulterior motives.
If you read Smritis, you'll clearly understand that the life of Brahmins were the toughest.. so what they'll get by introducing a system which gives that much duties to perform..
And not all the Mantras of Veda can be called Human creation because The Philosophy of Advaita Vedanta can not be created by human mind, it was realised by our Rishis and then they wrote that in the form of Mantras.. So the knowledge of Veda can be called "Apaurusheya".
The problem is that western people don't understand this concept! Everyone can agree that when you have an insight...you need to be in this 'Mind's Zone'! To be in this by Self discipline and by being in this Sattvic State of Mind! Nevertheless it is clearly a 'Human Endeavor'!
Comparing this to an Abrahmic discipline is an Oxymoron' Effort!
@@djsunshine1 The knowledge of Veda cannot be found by being in any kind of state of mind.
This can only be seen without mind and intellect, that's why it's not a Human creation.
And of course, it's human endeavor, Humans tried to acquire that knowledge, hence they got that knowledge.
But this doesn't mean that The knowledge is human creation, it's not.
Yeah. I noticed about this so called scholar. I think he pretends to be in favor of the Dharmic religions, but is in fact against us
@@djsunshine1 to the west, everything is contrivance, a corruption. Because they can only conceive a 'rigged" world.
@@jamesstevenson7725 He's entitled to his opinion. This doesn't make him any less Hindu. That's why it's called Hinduism, not Islam.
Sir, it is enlightening to hear. You are a real Sanatani.
My shat shat naman to you.
👍🙏
25:50 the Iranian tribes you mentioned could have also left India. Equally likely. There doesn’t seem to be memory in Rigveda of seasons across from Hindukush. For example there is no Shishir in Rigveda, but there is Pravrush and Varsha.
🙏💞💞
43:49 what probably contributed to this was the language changed considerably and people stopped understanding the Vedic poetry. It became a godly language.
This should have been a Quran topic rather than Vedic....Shastra and Sharia is not the same, plz do not insult
100%
You're choosing wrong person for this question. 🙏🙏🙏
He is just discussing his ideas on it. There isn't right or wrong here. Also, Elst even though may take certain stances, which don't align with tradition, he is still sympathetic of them.
Lack of understanding of Apaurusheyatva does not prove absence of Apaurusheyatva. Only an understanding of deep states of Yoga, especially witnessing Yogis in Samadhi-Jagrith states can differentiate between manifestation and creation.
We are not fools not to understand such a common sensical thing that the book has an author. This is why there are specific Grantha Karthas for Smrithi, Itihasa, Purana, Shastra and Kavya.
When there is acknowledgement of books and the authorship of these books for millenia, why is there a separate category "Shruthi" which is considered Apaurusheya? Any boy without qualification but has common sense will think twice before thinking dismissively about this category simply because the other category also exists.
"Shruti" existed as Akhanda Veda Rashi and it is only after Veda Vyasa and his Shishyas seggregated them, they took the form of books. Otherwise, Vedas existed as bunch of unassorted Mantras that are attributed to the Rishis who are called Mantra Drashtaras (Not authors of Mantras). The one who has "Seen" that Mantra within and the Mantra emanated first from that person and got revealed to others through him. So, the Rishi whose name we take before chanting the Mantra is the vehicle for the Mantra to manifest and become known in the physical world. The Rishi did not, through his effort create this Mantra and hence it is not Paurusheya. It happened without human effort and hence it is Apaurusheya.
Vedas are eternal ! Why ? Not because of super power it will be eternal
By PPL wisdom contribution it will be eternal and that PPL are divine who contribute the Vedas to be eternal upto end of mankind.
Mr Bhagvat ...I believe that everyone who has Indian heritage or at least who is living in Hindustan are Hindus. It makes sense politically...as it is said...all politics is local!
Read Clash of Civilizations by Samuel Huntington
Koenrad ji is living legend...
Konraad Elst is ranting nonsense. Apourusheya means inspired Mantras, not written by human thinking.
🙄 Sharia is a law. Whereas Shastra is an analysis or a practical approach. Sharia impose ideology. Shastra explains the behavioral nature of existence.
Manava Dharma Shastra and Manu Smriti are not the same. Those are two different things. Does this guy really know what he speak about?😂😅
When people does not have guru , govind, granth then this happened
Humble Request Quran Has Been Written More Than 36 Times Research Persian High Priest Was Guru Of Mohd Initiated Groomed Taught Teachings of Life and said to spread them after his death but have no Ego That they are Mohd teachings or teachings will get Reversed Mohd disobeyed His Guru Rest Is History
Very narrow understanding of the Vedic scriptures. I expected better logical interpretations of the relevance of Vedas.
Konraad Elst is ranting nonsense. Apourusheya means inspired Mantras, not written by human thinking.
This man is an excellent idiotic example of how one who is not born and raised in tradition parampara should never be given this knowledge. Who gave him the authority to speak on Vedas coming from west he is teaching us that Vedas are not Apaurusheya
what a farce.
As soon as it took the name of Sitaram Goyal I understood how knowldeble he is about our history and Vedas...
Totally baseless video
Yes based on a single name you decided all his stance and what all the paths he is going to take with this subject, either you are a genius or stupid idiot who does not much but likes to put people in a box, so its easy on you cognition instead of debating the ideas with good arguments