A lot of terms are a lot more useful to agents, editors, and publishers than to writers. Voice is one of them. As you say, it comes naturally with writing and thinking. You can't really "learn" it. A way to know if you have it, is if the page is your living room, or your work room. If you treat the page like your home where you can say whatever the hell you want with confidence, you're likely to have a voice. If you treat it like you're going to work, having to withhold certain things or bleach your pen before you get started, you likely are censoring your voice.
I've been told that I always write beautiful and detailed scenery and mostly strong dialogs. For some reason, writing these come naturally to me. While other parts I struggle a bit but manage them eventually. With my current work, I sadly held back vital information because I tried to be more mysterious about a character. Beta told me this isn't a good thing for readers when they suppose to be in his head. Good thing it was for the first 10k words, so the changes were quickly done. Again, after having worked with you on my last book and the feedback you've provided, and getting a new editor who made really good changes on how to formulate, I feel like now I can express myself more freely with my work without having the feeling I'm limited on how I write. Like I can get my voice out more than before.
Thank you so much for commenting - it makes me so happy to hear that you feel like you're better able to express your narrative voice after our work together!
I've been told that when I write verbal fight dialogue scenes, people said it's like they are almost embarrassed to read it as if they are overhearing an actual fight. One person said it was almost like I had taken dictation for a fight she had with her husband.
I still have zero idea what voice actually means to agents and publishers, but I now think is that neither do they and it's just a buzzword they use to sound like they know what they're talking about. It sounds like the formulaic 'business language' that they stock 80's businessman gag character on futurama would use.
@@katgreer6113 but on usa market if I write honestly then some people will call me racist, not to mention all those made up words that suppose to describe my normal point of view upon people with sexuality problems
Thank you Alyssa! Whenever I thought voice I thought of the character's voice in first person. You helped clear up how it works in the narrative including 3rd person. I appreciate it❤
I discovered I use distinct voices based on genre or series. I was approached by a reader at a convention who read both my urban fantasy and military science fiction but didn't put together it was the same author (despite the name on the cover) until I mentioned both series during the panel. It wasn't conscious, and I suspect they became more distinct as I wrote more books in both series/genres.
When you were leading up to saying what they are looking for beyond the first things I shrank in my seat and winced, sure you were going to say "an author they like" because in the back of my mind was the thought, "What if they just don't like ME?" Too much time on Twitter recently where things have been divisive 🤣🤣🤣
Yes, transcending plot and character is Voice. Or style. The problem is, Voice/Style is very subjective when it comes to liking or disliking. But, the strength of the Voice or Style is a lot more measurable, at least I think so.
Perfect timing Alyssa, I finished the 1st draft of my debut book last night, the final battle was magnificent. This will help as all your videos do Alyssa. Thank you so much.
@AlyssaMatesic Thank you, writing that final battle, I was in that zone, I just kept trying and tying and typing, I was like a machine. Then once done I laid back on my bed and thought "I did it, now into the 2nd story" It's a series. My goal is to one day leave my job and be a novelist. I live for that day...perhaps it is that very ambition that drives me to keep writing every night like I do. Any spare chance I get, I'm writing.
I tend to have a neutral voice that slants towards my themes, oltherwise I let my characters have their voices, I think it would take an experienced literary critic to label my voice.
I caught this video at the perfect time. I was afraid my book didn’t flow as well as I’d liked, so I made some edits Friday & then something felt off.. I was slightly overwhelmed- I didn’t know the word for it on Friday when I made the edits, those edits took away from my narrative voice!! Thankfully I didn’t delete my original work. Thanks Alyssa.
A method I've learned for studying narrative voice is to read large verity of books from different cultures and eras. Beyond modern fiction, Shakespear, Tolkien, Milton, Augustine, the Bible, ect.. No, these are not all fiction, but that's the point. Narrative voice will stick out like a sore thumb when contrasting Harry Potter to Tertullian (okay, I just used Tertullian because I like his stuff; he is really hard to read though). As for me, I find my narrative voice is meticulous, logical, and detailed. Perhaps too formal at times, while too causal at other times, -using old words that aren't used much anymore in one sentence, and then modern slang the next. Often times too long and filled with examples, but probably reads like it's been proofread a thousand times. Really, exactly like this. Yeah, I'm working on taking what works in my style and chiseling what doesn't.
Words beyond meaning or even mortality, there's infinite ways to define strong or original narrative voice. Its hard to even know what you want to write within first 500-700 pages... But I do believe deeply in having that confidence in your own ability to structure ideas /evocative emotions, because that's what you are trying to do when writing in the first place. 'You' is what separates you from others. Yet, even so, I find myself being greatly inspired by other authors. Name of the wind, somebody stop her... Hell , even things like light novel content can be of use. Poetry vs pacing vs descriptions vs dialogue vs art vs rationality vs vision vs being human to being insane. These options clash constantly, and depending on the style of story, each can overwhelm the other. I do think you want to sort of... Get somewhere, though, to be able to nuance the shit out of them. Coding, for instance, gets you to be able to write a lot more systematic coherent stuff good for epic scifi shenanigans. Doing art , seeing world through narrative and thematics, symbolism and things like that is very epic. Then you want to have this kind of psychological accuracy. Then you go wild, because once achieved you can write anything. Quite a bit like how knowing the rules of chess to a certain level you finally get to break them. When you know sanity, you can write insanity better. Things like that.
When I was 17/18 in high school my English teachers told me I have a voice in my writing and there is power in everything I write and that they look forward to picking up my books in the bookstore someday. That was I long time ago, now that I’m older I feel on one hand like I do have a voice, but also not… I know I tend to have a lot of dead pan sarcasm in my writing now. Honestly though I think my voice is just autism 😆 blunt.
My literary voice: Not. Yet. There. I have trouble when someone says I need to develop something intangible that can't really be described beyond, "You'll know it when you see it." At least you have exercises to work on the problem.
I know I have a strong voice, but I cannot express it in my query letters. Starting to think I need to ditch everything everyone says about writing a query letter, because my letters are not showing it at all.
The examples you mentioned are pretty meh. A real example of a good line: “Porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad, no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra.” -Cien Años De Soledad.
I find it difficult to comprehend why having a distinct, recognisable voice is considered a good thing. Surely being able to write in different styles and voices is more important, and indicative of writerly skill.
perhpas it's the same as teaching. why teach one subject when you can teach everything. A good teacher is able to teach anything. same as Art too. why paint in one style, when you can paint in any style. surely an artist can do that.
Yeah, 'voice' has always been hard for me to define, but I think Cormac McCarthy's writing illustrates a distinct voice that's easy to identify. read the first page of All the Pretty Horses and I think you'll see what I mean. Thanks for the great vids.
I have 3 narrative voices that are naturally me. I have my objective 'serious' voice where i'm not injecting my opinion. I have my voice where im playfully sneaking in my opinion. And i have my voice where im an overt jokester smart ass and my opinion is everywhere in a semi provocative way. My problem is i tend to love my jokester voice, but i always pull back from it because i dont know if it's acceptable. My issue is...provocative is my nature, but is it even appreciated anymore?
Thanks so much for letting me know! Just updated the description - and here is the link directly: www.queryacademy.com/free-resources/agency-master-list
I have absolutely no idea what my current voice wold even be called as, and i have no idea what i'd even want my voice to be at this point. This is like walking into a theoretical astrophysics lecture halfway through. I am boggled.
Alyssa I’m looking to hire you soon!!!! I’ve begun the drafting of……….. AAAHHH!! The best series in a long time. The Ancient World 24-book universe. The main series: Ille Antiquus Mundus 1-4 Chronicum 1-3 Bar’Bariy 1-3 Reginae Ballum 1-3 Abrax: Aevum Fabularum 1-3 Ilios Profiteia 1-3 Adventures of the Ancient World 1-3 Short Stories of the Ancient World 1 Age of Sophia 1-3 I’m so excited to be drafting now after outlining and plotting for months!!-wait, years!!! Once I’m done draft 1 I’ll be looking for editing and prof feedback! Once I’m polishing Draft 3 I’ll be quarrying!!! How smokes!!! Is my dream actually coming true?! Less than 36 months away!! Who knows?! Only tomorrow does. 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 Thanks for having always been around and boosting me up with your videas when the world went quiet and dark, Alyssa!!!
A lot of terms are a lot more useful to agents, editors, and publishers than to writers. Voice is one of them. As you say, it comes naturally with writing and thinking. You can't really "learn" it. A way to know if you have it, is if the page is your living room, or your work room. If you treat the page like your home where you can say whatever the hell you want with confidence, you're likely to have a voice. If you treat it like you're going to work, having to withhold certain things or bleach your pen before you get started, you likely are censoring your voice.
Great point!
This dovetails into the idea of the ideal reader. If you aren't imagining your ideal reader, you aren't going to find your voice.
"Bleach your pen before you write"
What a wonderfully evocative phrase!
Love it ❤!
I've been told that I always write beautiful and detailed scenery and mostly strong dialogs. For some reason, writing these come naturally to me. While other parts I struggle a bit but manage them eventually. With my current work, I sadly held back vital information because I tried to be more mysterious about a character. Beta told me this isn't a good thing for readers when they suppose to be in his head. Good thing it was for the first 10k words, so the changes were quickly done.
Again, after having worked with you on my last book and the feedback you've provided, and getting a new editor who made really good changes on how to formulate, I feel like now I can express myself more freely with my work without having the feeling I'm limited on how I write. Like I can get my voice out more than before.
Thank you so much for commenting - it makes me so happy to hear that you feel like you're better able to express your narrative voice after our work together!
I've been told that when I write verbal fight dialogue scenes, people said it's like they are almost embarrassed to read it as if they are overhearing an actual fight. One person said it was almost like I had taken dictation for a fight she had with her husband.
I tend to have a really deep voice first thing in the morning but it soon fades.
I am editing a key scene and found that splitting up the character perspective mid way helped. Good to know I'm on the right path
I still have zero idea what voice actually means to agents and publishers, but I now think is that neither do they and it's just a buzzword they use to sound like they know what they're talking about. It sounds like the formulaic 'business language' that they stock 80's businessman gag character on futurama would use.
Voice is just you "writing honestly". Like, writing without trying too hard or censoring yourself too much.
@@katgreer6113 but on usa market if I write honestly then some people will call me racist, not to mention all those made up words that suppose to describe my normal point of view upon people with sexuality problems
@@theq6797Did you notice all those agents she showed were unmarried cat ladies?
@@TP-om8of No, but I checked this out now. Thanks for truth. Yeah, far-left vibes (almost all) and famous antiwhite codeword "diversity" (some).
Thank you Alyssa! Whenever I thought voice I thought of the character's voice in first person. You helped clear up how it works in the narrative including 3rd person. I appreciate it❤
Helpful advice - thanks Alyssa - cheers
I discovered I use distinct voices based on genre or series. I was approached by a reader at a convention who read both my urban fantasy and military science fiction but didn't put together it was the same author (despite the name on the cover) until I mentioned both series during the panel. It wasn't conscious, and I suspect they became more distinct as I wrote more books in both series/genres.
When you were leading up to saying what they are looking for beyond the first things I shrank in my seat and winced, sure you were going to say "an author they like" because in the back of my mind was the thought, "What if they just don't like ME?" Too much time on Twitter recently where things have been divisive 🤣🤣🤣
Yes, transcending plot and character is Voice. Or style. The problem is, Voice/Style is very subjective when it comes to liking or disliking. But, the strength of the Voice or Style is a lot more measurable, at least I think so.
As always, amazing video that gives me motivation to write more.
So glad you enjoyed it - thanks for the kind comment!
@AlyssaMatesic of course, Your videos never miss and are full of gold
These exercises will be something I do before I write my next manuscript. Thank you Alyssa, you are worth gold.
Perfect timing Alyssa, I finished the 1st draft of my debut book last night, the final battle was magnificent. This will help as all your videos do Alyssa. Thank you so much.
Congratulations on finishing your first draft - that's a huge accomplishment! 🎉
@AlyssaMatesic Thank you, writing that final battle, I was in that zone, I just kept trying and tying and typing, I was like a machine. Then once done I laid back on my bed and thought "I did it, now into the 2nd story" It's a series. My goal is to one day leave my job and be a novelist. I live for that day...perhaps it is that very ambition that drives me to keep writing every night like I do. Any spare chance I get, I'm writing.
I tend to have a neutral voice that slants towards my themes, oltherwise I let my characters have their voices, I think it would take an experienced literary critic to label my voice.
Love your channel
Thank you so much - it means a lot!
I caught this video at the perfect time. I was afraid my book didn’t flow as well as I’d liked, so I made some edits Friday & then something felt off.. I was slightly overwhelmed- I didn’t know the word for it on Friday when I made the edits, those edits took away from my narrative voice!! Thankfully I didn’t delete my original work. Thanks Alyssa.
If my writer's voice was blue jeans, it would read "Relaxed Fit."
A method I've learned for studying narrative voice is to read large verity of books from different cultures and eras. Beyond modern fiction, Shakespear, Tolkien, Milton, Augustine, the Bible, ect.. No, these are not all fiction, but that's the point. Narrative voice will stick out like a sore thumb when contrasting Harry Potter to Tertullian (okay, I just used Tertullian because I like his stuff; he is really hard to read though).
As for me, I find my narrative voice is meticulous, logical, and detailed. Perhaps too formal at times, while too causal at other times, -using old words that aren't used much anymore in one sentence, and then modern slang the next. Often times too long and filled with examples, but probably reads like it's been proofread a thousand times. Really, exactly like this. Yeah, I'm working on taking what works in my style and chiseling what doesn't.
Words beyond meaning or even mortality, there's infinite ways to define strong or original narrative voice. Its hard to even know what you want to write within first 500-700 pages... But I do believe deeply in having that confidence in your own ability to structure ideas /evocative emotions, because that's what you are trying to do when writing in the first place. 'You' is what separates you from others. Yet, even so, I find myself being greatly inspired by other authors. Name of the wind, somebody stop her... Hell , even things like light novel content can be of use. Poetry vs pacing vs descriptions vs dialogue vs art vs rationality vs vision vs being human to being insane. These options clash constantly, and depending on the style of story, each can overwhelm the other. I do think you want to sort of... Get somewhere, though, to be able to nuance the shit out of them. Coding, for instance, gets you to be able to write a lot more systematic coherent stuff good for epic scifi shenanigans. Doing art , seeing world through narrative and thematics, symbolism and things like that is very epic. Then you want to have this kind of psychological accuracy. Then you go wild, because once achieved you can write anything. Quite a bit like how knowing the rules of chess to a certain level you finally get to break them. When you know sanity, you can write insanity better. Things like that.
When I was 17/18 in high school my English teachers told me I have a voice in my writing and there is power in everything I write and that they look forward to picking up my books in the bookstore someday. That was I long time ago, now that I’m older I feel on one hand like I do have a voice, but also not… I know I tend to have a lot of dead pan sarcasm in my writing now. Honestly though I think my voice is just autism 😆 blunt.
These needs and wants the agents are looking for is all subjective. One agent might hate the story while another one might find the story compelling.
My literary voice: Not. Yet. There.
I have trouble when someone says I need to develop something intangible that can't really be described beyond, "You'll know it when you see it." At least you have exercises to work on the problem.
I totally agree - it is so nebulous and one of the hardest things for an author to develop, in my opinion. I hope you find the exercises helpful!
I know I have a strong voice, but I cannot express it in my query letters. Starting to think I need to ditch everything everyone says about writing a query letter, because my letters are not showing it at all.
WORDS! it's words, right?
This is what I needed. 👋😊
The examples you mentioned are pretty meh. A real example of a good line:
“Porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad, no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra.”
-Cien Años De Soledad.
I don’t know if I haven’t found my narrative voice or just do not recognize it.
❤
I find it difficult to comprehend why having a distinct, recognisable voice is considered a good thing. Surely being able to write in different styles and voices is more important, and indicative of writerly skill.
perhpas it's the same as teaching. why teach one subject when you can teach everything. A good teacher is able to teach anything. same as Art too. why paint in one style, when you can paint in any style. surely an artist can do that.
Yeah, 'voice' has always been hard for me to define, but I think Cormac McCarthy's writing illustrates a distinct voice that's easy to identify. read the first page of All the Pretty Horses and I think you'll see what I mean. Thanks for the great vids.
Great example - thank you so much for sharing!
They look for the smell of money
😃👍
I have 3 narrative voices that are naturally me. I have my objective 'serious' voice where i'm not injecting my opinion. I have my voice where im playfully sneaking in my opinion. And i have my voice where im an overt jokester smart ass and my opinion is everywhere in a semi provocative way. My problem is i tend to love my jokester voice, but i always pull back from it because i dont know if it's acceptable.
My issue is...provocative is my nature, but is it even appreciated anymore?
I’m not seeing the query Academy link in the description??
Thanks so much for letting me know! Just updated - and here is the link again: www.queryacademy.com/free-resources/agency-master-list
Thank you!
Did I miss something? I don't see a link to that list of agents anywhere?
Thanks so much for letting me know! Just updated the description - and here is the link directly: www.queryacademy.com/free-resources/agency-master-list
Thought she was wearing furry ears at the opening of the video...
I have absolutely no idea what my current voice wold even be called as, and i have no idea what i'd even want my voice to be at this point.
This is like walking into a theoretical astrophysics lecture halfway through. I am boggled.
Hi!
Just wanted to be first for a change
Alyssa I’m looking to hire you soon!!!!
I’ve begun the drafting of……….. AAAHHH!! The best series in a long time.
The Ancient World 24-book universe.
The main series: Ille Antiquus Mundus 1-4
Chronicum 1-3
Bar’Bariy 1-3
Reginae Ballum 1-3
Abrax: Aevum Fabularum 1-3
Ilios Profiteia 1-3
Adventures of the Ancient World 1-3
Short Stories of the Ancient World 1
Age of Sophia 1-3
I’m so excited to be drafting now after outlining and plotting for months!!-wait, years!!! Once I’m done draft 1 I’ll be looking for editing and prof feedback! Once I’m polishing Draft 3 I’ll be quarrying!!!
How smokes!!! Is my dream actually coming true?! Less than 36 months away!! Who knows?! Only tomorrow does.
🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉
Thanks for having always been around and boosting me up with your videas when the world went quiet and dark, Alyssa!!!