Why wouldn't you just get a caliper measurement of the mortise and then use bandsaw to cut a *long* piece of stock to that dimension⁉️ 🤔 You could then just cut "dominoes" off the end as needed 💯 (and get custom lengths)
Lol.. Yeah, to me.. If you can't afford the price difference and you're doing this as a hobby and not a way to make money.. Then normal mortise and tenons are the way to go.. I wouldn't use this if it was given to me
As someone who has been working with the Beadlock system for a couple years now, a few tips for those interested. 1. Use a quality bit. If you ignore everything else, do this. The regular twist bits that come with it aren't great. Get a good, sharp brad point bit. It also helps to use a marking gauge to give a little gauge line for the tip of the brad to find when you start a hole. Doing this has made my holes A LOT cleaner and more accurate. 2. Use two clamps. The images of the product show just one, but I started to always use two. Keeping the jig well-attached, again, leads to cleaner and more accurate holes. 3. Take your time on setup and layout. This seems obvious, but a product like this is always marketed as "quick and easy." But for PRECISE joinery, go the extra mile. A good sharp line is a must. A knife line is even better and transfers even more precisely to the mating piece (but leaving the knife line on the surface may be a no-go depending on the project). This extends to the wood itself of course; get your stock straight and square. 4. If you like the system, upgrade the thumb bolts that come with it. Small heads and sharp corners will do a number on your fingers if you're using it frequently, and just recently I had a head break off and expose the cheap way they are made internally. 5. Just buy the pre-cut pieces for most things. The lengths are fine. You can have some of the 12 inch long cut-to-size stock on hand for the occasion when you might need it; usually it will be something heavy duty, which normally means the 3/8th or 1/2 size (I only just recently needed some of the 1/2 inch size for the first time). The router bits to make your own stock are not cheap and then you actually have to go through the trouble of making it, so try the jig for a while and consider if you'll be using it enough to make the time and money worth it to you. The complete 38th size kit + the 1/4 and 1/2 kits + the spacers (you definitely want the spacers if you plan to use it with ANY stock over 3/4" thickness) runs you $200 before taxes and shipping. I haven't used the Kreg, but just looking at the video, I'm unimpressed with the effort it takes, the loose fit (it looks much looser than the fit I get with the beadlock and a quality bit), and the fact that it is a "bring the stock to the stationary jig" tool rather than the beadlock and domino, where the tool is brought to the stock. I'm using beadlock on a garden arch right now with some big 8ft long 4x4 posts and it would be a serious hassle to try to line those up on this stationary Kreg thing. I will say that the thing Kreg has here that Beadlock doesn't is dust collection, beadlock has no solution to that. Be sure to back the bit out frequently or the chips will be jammed into the hole and need to be cleaned out individually. But considering all that, not to mention the price difference, I'm liking my beadlock even more.
I own both the domino and the beadlock 1st gen. Since owning the domino I've only used the beadlock once, to repair a chair. It was in a spot where it would have been impossible for the domino and I sold that repaired chair for $1,200. Without the beadlock it would have been scrap. So it's earned it's place next to my domino forever now. I used the domino to make and sell 1k chair's, if I wasn't selling those chairs, was just a hobby or just starting, the beadlock would be my choice. It can compete with the domino just at 1 100th the speed. And the price is low enough that I will keep it even after selling my domino. The domino is a business expense, the beadlock is a smart consumer tool.
@@NWGR I own a Dowelmax and love it. At one point owned two having different setups for say where I did offset on a leg, but for the mating boards wanted the setup dead center. The cost was still less than half the cost of the domino. Those using dowels do have an automation upgrade path not mentioned (and I believe is blatantly missing) when considering joinery systems is the large number of doweling jointers available, and comparing those to the Domino or other systems. I've noticed three general classes: those under $250 that have, lets say, often less than stellar reviews. The second tier in the $500 class, I only finding one company, Virutex, having a number of attachments taking away some of the pain and complaints regarding alignment over a distance being - on paper - in the same class compared to the Domino. Last up is at $1300+ price by Mafell that looks like something more industrial but at a silly high price, perhaps for those willing to spend about the same on a Domino but want to stick with dowels. Just saying moving forward I hope doweling jointers are considered moving forward as they offer someone using dowels an automation upgrade path having many of the advantages of the Domino at perhaps somewhat lower price. Great review!
@@NWGR I got the dowel max and jessem dowel jig and they are great jigs to have. But the domino is alot faster, i still use the dowels for small projects though
@@rpnp2 I thought about the jessem when I was shopping for my doweling jig, but the dowelmax's integrated clamping is what sold me on it. I'd love to have a domino, but my dowelmax works so well for me there's not any urgency for it. Still, I'd love to have one.
@@NWGR Yeah I used the dowelmax for years and its great. I have the earlier version that the integrated clamping got a little loose on over time, so i picked up the jessem when it was on sale... Then years later i bought a domino, but now they are so expensive i don't know if i would even justify buying a domino at it's current prices.
The Jessem dowelling jig is fantastic. I own an aluminum edition, so I can't speak to the steel edition. It works in the middle of a board (but a bit fussy).
I was about to post the same thing. Not even close IMHO. All of them are much slower, less precise, clunky to use and at the same time, cost a good chunk of money. I mean 300 bucks isn't something, most people just burn for fun. If it was around 50, that would be another topic. Also, I can understand the price, as this isn't just a simple jig. However you want to spin it, the Domino is unrivaled. Atleast fo now.
So essentially, if you want the Kreg MortiseMate....make your own tenon/domino stock. Definitely not hurting Festool's sales. Marc, excellent product review. As always, we appreciate your thoroughness, but also your humor. Actually, always, you humor.
I appreciate the honest review. As a hobbyist I've looked at the domino but just can't justify the price for the few times a year I would use it. I was thinking about the dowelmax and you convinced me that is best for my situation.
I have both the dowel max and the domino. The domino is quicker to set up and use than the dowelmax but dowlemax does the job just as well. I think you will be pleased with it.
Yea, that is a no starter from Kreg. I wish content creators would produce more videos on using a router to create mortises and tenons. I still think that is a great place to learn the basics of router operation and joinery. Very good video Marc and your content is always informative.
@@SonsOfThunder229 there are several products. Look up the jigs through oskool and general tools. Set up the jig, put in the right using for your router, and there isn't much skill involved. (It's also $100)
I'm glad you mentioned the DowelMax - that has been my "Poor Man's Dominio" for a while now. I know you showed it off back when we both had less salt in our beards, and seemed "meh" about it at the time, but so far it has checked all the boxes for me compared to all the alternatives. Accurate tight fitting joints, reasonably priced, can take the tool to the wood using a regular drill, and not being limited as to where to place them. Most of the similar speed/convenience of pocket screws, really.
@tim9589 There have been plenty of tests in terms of joint strength, and at the end of the day, all of them are sufficiently strong. Between modern glues and increased dowel manufacturing precision, I don't believe you have anything to worry about in terms of strength.
@@tim9589 I used to use loose tenons exclusively before getting my dowelmax; if there's any difference in joint strength, I can't tell. Projects made with both have held up just fine.
Wild that they released it at that price point. There are so many alternatives out there including making your own jig using a trim router and bushings. Been saving up for a Dowelmax and this video helps confirm it's the best value for the job for me.
Saw the title, so I had to watch as I finally splurged on a Domino 2 weeks ago. The moment you pulled it out I realised I'd made the right decision and relaxed. Before the Domino I'd been using biscuit joints and the 3x3Custom loose tenon router jig, which is quicker to use than this looks. I often use epoxy, which will fill gaps, but I wouldn't find the Kreg results acceptably tight with that, let alone with wood glue.
Thanks for this review I saw an ad for this the other day and it made me consider buying this over a domino but now I’m starting to rethink that again.
Great content as always! The Domino has had hobbyists everywhere second guessing their joinery of choice ever since its release. Now people think floating tenons are the gold standard, so of course companies like Kreg will capitalize. At the end of the day, it’s a gadget that, yes, makes you go faster with great joints. If you’re not at production level, though, the cost:benefit just isn’t there. I agree with the Dowelmax. It’s a relatively low cost solution that also makes rapid, strong, and accurate joints. In head to head comparisons, dowel strength performs at or better than traditional mortise and tenons if done correctly. Thanks again, but I’ll be sticking with my Dowelmax!!
Dowels, meh! Not enough glue surface IMHO. And as far as loose tenons, they are fine and with modern glues have been used since people started using routers to make mortises. I don’t have a domino machine but if I were back in high production I would buy one. As a side note most production shops now use pocket screws for face frame construction. It’s adequate for non stressed joints where racking isn’t an issue. The gold standard for all cross grain butt joints is still the pegged mortise and tenon. And BTW 99% of door production now just relies on cope and stick and glue. Failures waiting to happen. My practice for cope and stick work is cope and sick with a loose tenon. Outside of a true coped tenon, ( which can be accomplished with very large shaper cutters) or a complicated router bit setup like Lonnie Bird’s CMT set, it’s the way to go. If you didn’t have a convenient mortising machine a domino is a great choice.
Love these tool review videos from you very honest. Another great dowel option is Jessem’s new stainless steel dowel jig. Comes with several options including a nice wall mount and the jig is extremely easy to use. Cheers
Totally agree,a really decent dowel jig does everything the Kreg and the JessEmm will do but none of them will do everything the domino does,or at least not as well as the domino
I have the JessEm dowel jig and it's done everything I've ever needed it to do. I recently built a pair of giant 9' x 4' wooden barn doors. At each corner I used five, 6" long, 1/2" thick dowels. That's one joint where even the Domino couldn't have accomplished.
The Jessem tool looks great but to get the entire package with all the accessories moves you closer to $500. I had the old Rockler Beadlock but it tended to rack or twist due to the single built-in clamp. Threw it out and got the new Beadlock and returned it completely dissatisfied. No longer metal and smaller (and cheaper materials), it would flex in more than one direction. I now have the complete Dowelmax set with 3 dowel sizes and all accessories. It takes a little more thought to set up the spacers but the accuracy is unbeatable. I also have the stainless steel Jessem doweling jig set. It works well too, and it has a guide slot that can quickly transfer dowel location from one board to another. I can't justify the either Festool Domino due to cost but I can join wood using dowels with more strength than I will ever need.
Great comparison video. I treated myself to a birthday present earlier this year and bought a df500 Domino. Truly, I was influenced by it's presence all over RUclips. Even though it's very expensive, it's an impressive tool. The simplicity of the Domino is why people get upset with the price. Completely understandable. Where the Domino's real value is not in the loose tenon holes that makes bud in the accuracy of the mortises, the repeatability of the mortises, the consistency of the mortises. The ability to use the dominoes for layout and pre-assembly and perfect fit up is what gets lost in the price. It's so much more than just router Bit jig for loose tenons. I was pretty impressed when I saw the jessum and now this Craig version of the Jeff some come out and at their price. But your video clearly shows the differences and the dominance of the Domino. It's not even close. And when you're looking at $300 versus maybe picking up a used Domino for $800 or $900. It's a no-brainer to buy once and cry once with a domino. Thanks for your video. Mark
I like the idea... not the execution. 😅 I have seen things like this that use a router. If you're going to use a drill might as well use a doweling jig, seem to me like less work.
Thanks for another fair review. I'm with the group that owns a Festool 700, but we don't use it for every joint. We use a DowelMax for panel alignments and attaching trim. It's faster than Dominos if you use the dowel pin for spacing. Also, dowels cost about 1 cent each vs Dominos costing nearly 10 cents each. When you use 100's of dowels vs Dominos per week, it adds up. As our shop volume increases, I opted to purchase a second DowelMax instead of a Domino. The Domino is a great tool, but there are alternatives for some joinery.
From the comments both positive and negative the most honest review. The mention of the Jessem is the most obvious “competitor” for the Kreg and one missing from many other reviews. Just wish you had tried that as well.
A ton of good info. Thanks, Marc. I've been watching systems like this for a while now. Compared to the Domino, they all seem to lack quality and features. But WOW the price difference!
Hi Mark, here's a suggestion (future video): make your own tenons - ones that are correctly sized for the holes the Kreg jig makes, and then make a video, going over what the correct thickness is, and then compare the Kreg jig+home made tenons against the Domino. I agree, snug fitting tenons are a must, and it's a little odd that the tenons that Kreg sells for its jig are too thin for a proper fit.
Great review as always Mark. I would just grab my router for the end grain and my floor standing mortise machine for the rest. But if $$ is a concern then grab the router, build a jig and save the $300.00 up for a Domino. It's funny when I first started watching this video, I instantly thought of the Jessem machine which looks a lot better thought out than the Kreg jig. Then at the end of your video you bring the Jessem up. Again, Thanks for the great work in bringing new ideas up. Dave Couch
It would have been kind of interesting to see how difficult it would have been to make properly sized floating tenons for the kreg. I'm still not sure it's worth it but it would be interesting to see how fixable one of the bigger problems is.
Thanks for that review, I, like you, saw the kreg device at WIA but I didn't pick up on how sloppy the tenon was. Maybe you have to be careful when you drill, but I don't want to have to learn a skill to operate a jig. Valuable knowledge I gained from your review! Thanks
I have the Jessem. I works great. I use Trend tenons and the combination is always tight. Just like a Domino. It is less flexible than a Domino but since I have a hollow chisel mortiser that I use for traditional M&T, most of my joinery, the Jessem jig helps me with non 90 degree joints and other situations that I can not take to the HCM.
Super helpful video, Marc. My Domino works great, but it comes with minor annoyances, The Kreg MM clearly comes with *more* such annoyances. Your review makes me feel fine about my investment.
Very good review and comparison. I think I would go with one of the dowelling systems before the Kreg. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂
Thanks! Another excellent and honest review. I sure wish I could justify a Domino and completely understand why professional and "production" woodworkers use and (in fact) need them. So since I am only a "wanna be" and "fantasy" woodworker I will just stick with dowels. I may upgrade to the DowelMax however for the greater precision and ease of use. Thanks again!
Something else to consider: Drill chucks are not designed to withstand a lot of side-to-side forces. That's why we're told not to use a drill press as a milling machine. The lateral pressure applied when milling will quickly wear-out the drill press, causing it to no longer drill accurately. I would think the same concern would apply to using a typical cordless drill with the Kreg jig. To prevent that, I wonder if it would be possible to mount the Kreg's mortice cutter in a palm router. Routers are made to handle those lateral forces.
Thank you for another excellent review. I’m not sure if you allow plugs for other channels but Izzy Swan designed a horizontal mortising jig a few months ago with plans and a video. I built one and it works really well for a total cost around a hundred dollars.
Thank you for the thorough review! In all honesty though! I am STICKING with my dowel jig! precisely being able to drill 3 dowel holes into both pieces and then glue them together makes for a 1. faster 2. easier 3. cheaper and 4. more precise connection!
Thanks for the review, always helpful. Agree it’s a no brainer the dowel jig is good choice nd price. Festool is amazing, but I have invested in the PantoRouter over 8 years ago and I love the versatility.
Very good review. However for those of us on a budget, I’d suggest checking out Izzy Swann’s Mortiser which is a fun build and less than $100 using a very serviceable Bauer router ($50 on sale) and any size straight bit. Stationary but very flexible and tight mortises self made.
You should also mention that there are three sizes of drill/router bits, 6, 8 and 10mm. They are $60/ea. They are also of limited depth, 1" max. Slightly less than the Domino at 28mm. I also wonder how well either the Kreg or the Domino would handle 1/2" stock. Especially on the end of a board with a narrow width. It looks like the opening on the Kreg could be problematic.
Yet another great review Marc. I've had a domino for about 15 years now and still love it but would be willing to replace it with a vastly less expensive system so I was wanting to like this. Maybe it because I'm a retired mechanical engineer but the mortise and tenon fit is as critical to the performance of this device as anything and it looks like either a major engineering or quality failure. The flex is absolutely and engineering failure. I think Kreg products on the whole are well engineered but this, particularly considering they collaborated with Jessem is just strange to me.
Spot on review, Marc~! The Domino is a lot more expensive tool, but for me it was love at first use. Not that impressed by the Kreg, but as you mentioned, the DowelMax is a great alternative. I started off with the old dowel jig that centers itself on the workpiece and over time (years) tired of it. But then, I discovered the DowelMax (a few years ago thanks to John Parilla...ParillaWorks) and bought one. It's a fantastic tool that is so much more versatile than my original dowel jig. Yes, more expensive, but a worthwhile purchase. Again, great informational video~!
The deal on the Canadian site is cheaper due to our weak dollar. $50 less. The reason the kreg one is so loose is that you cant help but introduce some up and down motion when attempting to keep the drill vertical. Every time it wiggles up and down the sloppy mortise gets worse. I can't help but mention that Jessum's quality is unmatched. Might as well give it a go eh?
Great review, thanks. I never thought of adding DowelMax to the list of tools to compare but now I think My preference is for the dowelmax. Flexibility and accuracy
Dowelmax is amazing jig and I used it until I got the Domino. Since then, it sits in the drawer. The drawback is just time. Both are pinnacles of quality wood joints, and differences are time and money. Best regards from Croatia 😊
I think it’s great for a first version and I’m sure they’ll improve it in a version or two. Would have liked to see the Jessum compared to it. Dowels will still be king if you can’t afford a domino, but that Rockler jig seems fine for now if you like drilling a lot. Will there be a video comparing all of them???
Love the review. I like the Rockler one myself. i think it is super solid for the most part. Not a Domino killer because of setup, however a real nice piece of kit if you take the time to set it up correctly. Most importantly, thank you for saving me some cash. That looked like a nice tool, until it wasn't. Many thanks! 😃
I'm wondering about 2 things: 1) whether its possible to make the width of the mortise even smaller to make the fit tighter. 2) whether the jig could be oriented and clamped so that you can use the drill vertically
I was wondering about switching it to vertical as well. Also wondering if you could add angle bracket to stiffen the mount since it doesn't seem beefy enough.
That Lorraine intro had me dying 🤣perfect use of a clip (and BTTF 1 is the best film in the trilogy) Great review, you've convinced me that it's not accurate enough, especially for the cost, better off with a dowel jig in the lower price range and still having the use of a drill. Far from a Domino killer.
Thanks for the review. I was hoping the MortiseMate would be a viable alternative to me buying the Festool. Looks like it is noy quite ready for prime time. I'll keep saving for the Domino.
IMHO, Kreg needs to be worried asking $300 for something that sloppy. I might consider it at $100 to $150, but $300 is just way too much for that sloppy of a joint. I'd like to see a review of the JessEm to see if it too creates sloppy joints.
My great grandmother before passing, whispered to me, “make sure your joinery is domino tight.” The dowelmax is a well engineered tool that’s accurate and easy to use.
The Dowel max is great. I've built a lot of stuff with it and the joints are spot on and tight. You can also get 1/4" & 1/2" kits to supplement the 3/8". I've never made a bad joint with it.
I started with a cheap dowel guide that I hated. Was inconsistent and had alignment issues (sorry I don't recall the brand). Upgraded to the DowelMax. Was much much better and if you take your time, you get great results, but still a bit fiddly in my opinion. For miters and straight connections between two pieces of similar thickness wood, it works great. Stepped up to the Domino and for the ease of use, consistency, reliability and quality of joints, it is pretty hard to beat. I completely understand the cost issue, but I believe the reason that Jessum is phasing out their system is folks just don't want to pay a couple hundred bucks for a tool that is "good, but not quite as good as the Domino." It is slower, more fiddly, and just harder to use. Just my five cents on the issue. Appreciate your review Marc, and completely agree. Kreg took a swing, and think they missed with this one. Hey, how do you compare the Lamello Biscuit joiner with their fasteners to one of these :)
I think for large products and if you do a lot of them, domino is way to go. It is easily portable, fast, but expensive. The alternatives are great for the hobbyist, garage woodworker, etc where cost is a concern. I have the dowelmax and it works great for me.
i was going to ask about putting the bit in a drill press and using the jig upright until you showed the Jessum. I was also wondering if maybe just using a slightly smaller bit would help tighten up the fit.
I would also look at the 3 axis slot mortiser that Gregory Paolini designed a few years ago...great design...Woodsmith Shop not long ago also designed a 3 axis jig also
Great informative video. When I saw the thumbnail, I thought awesome! I don't have to buy a festival, but after watching the video I am going to pass on Kreg and look at the JessEm or a dowel jig. Also, I watched a video of yours building a cross-cut sled. I thought you dyed your hair and shaved your beard. Then I saw that it was made 13 years ago. 😂
In MX, some older tablesaws come with a side drill for mortises using that principle, and allows you to do it "free" hand. I guess is up to you in the end.
Very well done review. It's way too expensive for what it does. As he said, a high quality dowel jig is WAY cheaper and just as quick and effective, if not more. And if you really need speed, just save up for the Domino. The only thing I will push back on a little is the lack of tightness/slop in the joints. When you first showed that, my first thought was , "oh that's kind of nice". I build custom cabinetry for a living and have a Domino, several biscuit jointers, dowel Jigs, etc. Sometimes, a little peice of sawdust will get under the tool or user error causes the biscuit or domino mortise to be off by a bit. Because those tenons are so tight, it makes it difficult to align your workpiece without redoing the joint. Sometimes, I would actually like a little slop to be able to align things as I please, even if I was slightly off when machining the cut. Obviously, too much is bad and won't make a strong glue joint so there are limits.
Being on the uk I have the Peter Millard 10 minute workshop domino jig. Really only works excellently on 18mm sheet materials although I have used it on thicker timber. Works well and relatively cheap. You do need a router though.
I did gasp at the price tag of my domino when I bought it, but given the opportunity it has given me I do not regret my purchase. This is a diy or hobbyist item at best.
I love the kreg jig, I also like the way kreg is always coming up with new products. I don’t think they are quite there but I’m sure they will perfect it
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Links you might be looking for:
+Kreg MortiseMate (Save 5% - affiliate link): beavertools.com/kreg-mortisemate-loose-tenon-jig-kltj100.html?affiliate_code=Jiktz506tuxYkLshKVbUFMMRRQCGL9&referring_service=link
+Festool Domino (affilaite link): amzn.to/4hBh1wx
+Rockler Beadlock (affiliate link): amzn.to/4epwf4O
+DowelMax (affiliate link): www.dowelmax.com/product/classic-3-8-dowel-jig-system/?aff=13
+JessEm Pocket Mill Pro (affiliate link): jessem.com/products/pocket-mill-pro-loose-tenon-system?sca_ref=7348750.lMAJCfJTArg
+Ava's Vanity (showing the Dowelmax in action): thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/a-vanity-for-my-little-girl/
Why wouldn't you just get a caliper measurement of the mortise and then use bandsaw to cut a *long* piece of stock to that dimension⁉️ 🤔
You could then just cut "dominoes" off the end as needed 💯 (and get custom lengths)
In a world filled with woodworking RUclips content creators, this is the gold standard of tool reviews. Keep it up.
Thanks 👍
It’s really Tried and True content
Hey.. You can't say that anymore. He lost that sponsor
@@jeremyspeccewell played
No, Festool does not need to be worried.
The F Word.....
😂😂😂
Lol.. Yeah, to me.. If you can't afford the price difference and you're doing this as a hobby and not a way to make money.. Then normal mortise and tenons are the way to go.. I wouldn't use this if it was given to me
They’re not
It's about speed festool much better
Hey Marc. I find your product reviews super helpful. Really appreciate them. Please keep posting!
As someone who has been working with the Beadlock system for a couple years now, a few tips for those interested.
1. Use a quality bit. If you ignore everything else, do this. The regular twist bits that come with it aren't great. Get a good, sharp brad point bit. It also helps to use a marking gauge to give a little gauge line for the tip of the brad to find when you start a hole. Doing this has made my holes A LOT cleaner and more accurate.
2. Use two clamps. The images of the product show just one, but I started to always use two. Keeping the jig well-attached, again, leads to cleaner and more accurate holes.
3. Take your time on setup and layout. This seems obvious, but a product like this is always marketed as "quick and easy." But for PRECISE joinery, go the extra mile. A good sharp line is a must. A knife line is even better and transfers even more precisely to the mating piece (but leaving the knife line on the surface may be a no-go depending on the project). This extends to the wood itself of course; get your stock straight and square.
4. If you like the system, upgrade the thumb bolts that come with it. Small heads and sharp corners will do a number on your fingers if you're using it frequently, and just recently I had a head break off and expose the cheap way they are made internally.
5. Just buy the pre-cut pieces for most things. The lengths are fine. You can have some of the 12 inch long cut-to-size stock on hand for the occasion when you might need it; usually it will be something heavy duty, which normally means the 3/8th or 1/2 size (I only just recently needed some of the 1/2 inch size for the first time). The router bits to make your own stock are not cheap and then you actually have to go through the trouble of making it, so try the jig for a while and consider if you'll be using it enough to make the time and money worth it to you.
The complete 38th size kit + the 1/4 and 1/2 kits + the spacers (you definitely want the spacers if you plan to use it with ANY stock over 3/4" thickness) runs you $200 before taxes and shipping. I haven't used the Kreg, but just looking at the video, I'm unimpressed with the effort it takes, the loose fit (it looks much looser than the fit I get with the beadlock and a quality bit), and the fact that it is a "bring the stock to the stationary jig" tool rather than the beadlock and domino, where the tool is brought to the stock. I'm using beadlock on a garden arch right now with some big 8ft long 4x4 posts and it would be a serious hassle to try to line those up on this stationary Kreg thing. I will say that the thing Kreg has here that Beadlock doesn't is dust collection, beadlock has no solution to that. Be sure to back the bit out frequently or the chips will be jammed into the hole and need to be cleaned out individually. But considering all that, not to mention the price difference, I'm liking my beadlock even more.
I own both the domino and the beadlock 1st gen. Since owning the domino I've only used the beadlock once, to repair a chair. It was in a spot where it would have been impossible for the domino and I sold that repaired chair for $1,200. Without the beadlock it would have been scrap. So it's earned it's place next to my domino forever now.
I used the domino to make and sell 1k chair's, if I wasn't selling those chairs, was just a hobby or just starting, the beadlock would be my choice. It can compete with the domino just at 1 100th the speed. And the price is low enough that I will keep it even after selling my domino. The domino is a business expense, the beadlock is a smart consumer tool.
Thank you for reinforcing that my purchase of the dowel max was the correct thing to do. It works exceedingly well, and i'm very happy to have it.
You did good. Honestly, the only thing that's better than the dowelmax is the domino, and it's not vastly better, just a decent bit faster.
@@NWGR I own a Dowelmax and love it. At one point owned two having different setups for say where I did offset on a leg, but for the mating boards wanted the setup dead center. The cost was still less than half the cost of the domino.
Those using dowels do have an automation upgrade path not mentioned (and I believe is blatantly missing) when considering joinery systems is the large number of doweling jointers available, and comparing those to the Domino or other systems.
I've noticed three general classes: those under $250 that have, lets say, often less than stellar reviews. The second tier in the $500 class, I only finding one company, Virutex, having a number of attachments taking away some of the pain and complaints regarding alignment over a distance being - on paper - in the same class compared to the Domino. Last up is at $1300+ price by Mafell that looks like something more industrial but at a silly high price, perhaps for those willing to spend about the same on a Domino but want to stick with dowels.
Just saying moving forward I hope doweling jointers are considered moving forward as they offer someone using dowels an automation upgrade path having many of the advantages of the Domino at perhaps somewhat lower price.
Great review!
@@NWGR I got the dowel max and jessem dowel jig and they are great jigs to have. But the domino is alot faster, i still use the dowels for small projects though
@@rpnp2 I thought about the jessem when I was shopping for my doweling jig, but the dowelmax's integrated clamping is what sold me on it. I'd love to have a domino, but my dowelmax works so well for me there's not any urgency for it. Still, I'd love to have one.
@@NWGR Yeah I used the dowelmax for years and its great. I have the earlier version that the integrated clamping got a little loose on over time, so i picked up the jessem when it was on sale... Then years later i bought a domino, but now they are so expensive i don't know if i would even justify buying a domino at it's current prices.
Marc we always appreciate your honesty and straightforward advice. thanks
The Jessem dowelling jig is fantastic. I own an aluminum edition, so I can't speak to the steel edition. It works in the middle of a board (but a bit fussy).
Every one of these “domino killers” just end up showing how good the domino really is
I was about to post the same thing. Not even close IMHO. All of them are much slower, less precise, clunky to use and at the same time, cost a good chunk of money. I mean 300 bucks isn't something, most people just burn for fun. If it was around 50, that would be another topic. Also, I can understand the price, as this isn't just a simple jig. However you want to spin it, the Domino is unrivaled. Atleast fo now.
Is a Cadillac better than an Impala. Just depends on what you want to drive and what you can afford.
Your reviews are simply the best. Thanks for what you continue to do for this community.
So essentially, if you want the Kreg MortiseMate....make your own tenon/domino stock. Definitely not hurting Festool's sales. Marc, excellent product review. As always, we appreciate your thoroughness, but also your humor. Actually, always, you humor.
@@alanr745
Agree, if I get one of those I’d make the tenons myself.
I appreciate the honest review. As a hobbyist I've looked at the domino but just can't justify the price for the few times a year I would use it. I was thinking about the dowelmax and you convinced me that is best for my situation.
I have both the dowel max and the domino. The domino is quicker to set up and use than the dowelmax but dowlemax does the job just as well. I think you will be pleased with it.
The honesty in your videos is appreciated. I look forward to when you actually do show us all the next domino killer
Yea, that is a no starter from Kreg. I wish content creators would produce more videos on using a router to create mortises and tenons. I still think that is a great place to learn the basics of router operation and joinery. Very good video Marc and your content is always informative.
@@flatlander523 he has a video on router made mortises on his channel somewhere, I’ve watched it before.
Thats a skill verses a product, which really doesnt make anyone money.
He has the simplest method made years ago using a router. I saw a video he made 17 years ago teaching how to make tenons 😂. This dude is an OG.
@@SonsOfThunder229 there are several products. Look up the jigs through oskool and general tools. Set up the jig, put in the right using for your router, and there isn't much skill involved. (It's also $100)
I'm glad you mentioned the DowelMax - that has been my "Poor Man's Dominio" for a while now. I know you showed it off back when we both had less salt in our beards, and seemed "meh" about it at the time, but so far it has checked all the boxes for me compared to all the alternatives. Accurate tight fitting joints, reasonably priced, can take the tool to the wood using a regular drill, and not being limited as to where to place them. Most of the similar speed/convenience of pocket screws, really.
Yup, I've definitely warmed up to the DowelMax over the years. It's a pretty great system.
How have you felt about the strength of the joint? I just did a traditional mortise and tenon and what a pain the the tools I have available.
@tim9589 There have been plenty of tests in terms of joint strength, and at the end of the day, all of them are sufficiently strong. Between modern glues and increased dowel manufacturing precision, I don't believe you have anything to worry about in terms of strength.
Ad I got before this video was for the DowelMax. 🙂
@@tim9589 I used to use loose tenons exclusively before getting my dowelmax; if there's any difference in joint strength, I can't tell. Projects made with both have held up just fine.
Wild that they released it at that price point. There are so many alternatives out there including making your own jig using a trim router and bushings. Been saving up for a Dowelmax and this video helps confirm it's the best value for the job for me.
Thanks for immediately disclosing everything to us in the beginning.
Your honesty is much appreciated! 😊
Saw the title, so I had to watch as I finally splurged on a Domino 2 weeks ago. The moment you pulled it out I realised I'd made the right decision and relaxed. Before the Domino I'd been using biscuit joints and the 3x3Custom loose tenon router jig, which is quicker to use than this looks. I often use epoxy, which will fill gaps, but I wouldn't find the Kreg results acceptably tight with that, let alone with wood glue.
Thanks for this review I saw an ad for this the other day and it made me consider buying this over a domino but now I’m starting to rethink that again.
If you have the budget, just get the Domino.
I use the jessem dowel jigs and I love them, I am also glad we know that kreg didn’t take advantage of Jessem
Great content as always!
The Domino has had hobbyists everywhere second guessing their joinery of choice ever since its release. Now people think floating tenons are the gold standard, so of course companies like Kreg will capitalize. At the end of the day, it’s a gadget that, yes, makes you go faster with great joints. If you’re not at production level, though, the cost:benefit just isn’t there. I agree with the Dowelmax. It’s a relatively low cost solution that also makes rapid, strong, and accurate joints. In head to head comparisons, dowel strength performs at or better than traditional mortise and tenons if done correctly. Thanks again, but I’ll be sticking with my Dowelmax!!
Dowels, meh! Not enough glue surface IMHO. And as far as loose tenons, they are fine and with modern glues have been used since people started using routers to make mortises. I don’t have a domino machine but if I were back in high production I would buy one. As a side note most production shops now use pocket screws for face frame construction. It’s adequate for non stressed joints where racking isn’t an issue. The gold standard for all cross grain butt joints is still the pegged mortise and tenon. And BTW 99% of door production now just relies on cope and stick and glue. Failures waiting to happen. My practice for cope and stick work is cope and sick with a loose tenon. Outside of a true coped tenon, ( which can be accomplished with very large shaper cutters) or a complicated router bit setup like Lonnie Bird’s CMT set, it’s the way to go. If you didn’t have a convenient mortising machine a domino is a great choice.
I use the Rockler beadlock. I have had great success with it. The joints line up nicely and always nice and tight
Do you make or buy your tenons?
@ I bought the router bit and just make them now.
Love these tool review videos from you very honest. Another great dowel option is Jessem’s new stainless steel dowel jig. Comes with several options including a nice wall mount and the jig is extremely easy to use. Cheers
Totally agree,a really decent dowel jig does everything the Kreg and the JessEmm will do but none of them will do everything the domino does,or at least not as well as the domino
I have the jessem version and it appears to be much better than the kreg, yet I still go to my dowelmax more and will eventually buy a domino.
Dowelmax is a masterpiece. So well engineered.
Very much appreciate the honest review and recommendations based on price point.
I have the JessEm dowel jig and it's done everything I've ever needed it to do. I recently built a pair of giant 9' x 4' wooden barn doors. At each corner I used five, 6" long, 1/2" thick dowels. That's one joint where even the Domino couldn't have accomplished.
Very honest and straightforward review - thumbs up - you are the man to go to - Thanks a lot
I appreciate that!
Great job on the review! As usual, I agree with just about everything you said. Thanks for making these and keep up the great work!
The Jessem tool looks great but to get the entire package with all the accessories moves you closer to $500. I had the old Rockler Beadlock but it tended to rack or twist due to the single built-in clamp. Threw it out and got the new Beadlock and returned it completely dissatisfied. No longer metal and smaller (and cheaper materials), it would flex in more than one direction. I now have the complete Dowelmax set with 3 dowel sizes and all accessories. It takes a little more thought to set up the spacers but the accuracy is unbeatable. I also have the stainless steel Jessem doweling jig set. It works well too, and it has a guide slot that can quickly transfer dowel location from one board to another. I can't justify the either Festool Domino due to cost but I can join wood using dowels with more strength than I will ever need.
If I didn't already wait a few years before buying a Domino - after watching this - I would wait a few years and buy a Domino.
😂
Hahahaha! Well said
Great comparison video. I treated myself to a birthday present earlier this year and bought a df500 Domino. Truly, I was influenced by it's presence all over RUclips. Even though it's very expensive, it's an impressive tool. The simplicity of the Domino is why people get upset with the price. Completely understandable. Where the Domino's real value is not in the loose tenon holes that makes bud in the accuracy of the mortises, the repeatability of the mortises, the consistency of the mortises. The ability to use the dominoes for layout and pre-assembly and perfect fit up is what gets lost in the price. It's so much more than just router Bit jig for loose tenons. I was pretty impressed when I saw the jessum and now this Craig version of the Jeff some come out and at their price. But your video clearly shows the differences and the dominance of the Domino. It's not even close. And when you're looking at $300 versus maybe picking up a used Domino for $800 or $900. It's a no-brainer to buy once and cry once with a domino. Thanks for your video. Mark
I like the idea... not the execution. 😅 I have seen things like this that use a router. If you're going to use a drill might as well use a doweling jig, seem to me like less work.
I was keeping my eye on a good review of this - thank you
Honest and thoughtful as always! Thanks Marc.
Great review. thanks for always being transparent and honest with these types of things.
By 3:50, nuff said. I'm not a Festool fan, but this is no kind of replacement.
Thanks for another fair review. I'm with the group that owns a Festool 700, but we don't use it for every joint. We use a DowelMax for panel alignments and attaching trim. It's faster than Dominos if you use the dowel pin for spacing. Also, dowels cost about 1 cent each vs Dominos costing nearly 10 cents each. When you use 100's of dowels vs Dominos per week, it adds up. As our shop volume increases, I opted to purchase a second DowelMax instead of a Domino. The Domino is a great tool, but there are alternatives for some joinery.
From the comments both positive and negative the most honest review. The mention of the Jessem is the most obvious “competitor” for the Kreg and one missing from many other reviews. Just wish you had tried that as well.
A ton of good info. Thanks, Marc. I've been watching systems like this for a while now. Compared to the Domino, they all seem to lack quality and features. But WOW the price difference!
Always appreciate your tool reviews. Thank you!
Hi Mark, here's a suggestion (future video): make your own tenons - ones that are correctly sized for the holes the Kreg jig makes, and then make a video, going over what the correct thickness is, and then compare the Kreg jig+home made tenons against the Domino. I agree, snug fitting tenons are a must, and it's a little odd that the tenons that Kreg sells for its jig are too thin for a proper fit.
Thank you Marc. Always appreciate these!!
Great review as always Mark. I would just grab my router for the end grain and my floor standing mortise machine for the rest. But if $$ is a concern then grab the router, build a jig and save the $300.00 up for a Domino.
It's funny when I first started watching this video, I instantly thought of the Jessem machine which looks a lot better thought out than the Kreg jig. Then at the end of your video you bring the Jessem up.
Again, Thanks for the great work in bringing new ideas up.
Dave Couch
It would have been kind of interesting to see how difficult it would have been to make properly sized floating tenons for the kreg. I'm still not sure it's worth it but it would be interesting to see how fixable one of the bigger problems is.
Thanks for that review, I, like you, saw the kreg device at WIA but I didn't pick up on how sloppy the tenon was. Maybe you have to be careful when you drill, but I don't want to have to learn a skill to operate a jig. Valuable knowledge I gained from your review! Thanks
I have the Jessem. I works great. I use Trend tenons and the combination is always tight. Just like a Domino. It is less flexible than a Domino but since I have a hollow chisel mortiser that I use for traditional M&T, most of my joinery, the Jessem jig helps me with non 90 degree joints and other situations that I can not take to the HCM.
Super helpful video, Marc. My Domino works great, but it comes with minor annoyances, The Kreg MM clearly comes with *more* such annoyances. Your review makes me feel fine about my investment.
Thank you for reinforcing of the dowel max that looks like a better fit . thanks for another great video
Very good review and comparison. I think I would go with one of the dowelling systems before the Kreg. Thank you for sharing. Have a great day and stay safe.🙂🙂
Thanks! Another excellent and honest review. I sure wish I could justify a Domino and completely understand why professional and "production" woodworkers use and (in fact) need them. So since I am only a "wanna be" and "fantasy" woodworker I will just stick with dowels. I may upgrade to the DowelMax however for the greater precision and ease of use. Thanks again!
Something else to consider: Drill chucks are not designed to withstand a lot of side-to-side forces. That's why we're told not to use a drill press as a milling machine. The lateral pressure applied when milling will quickly wear-out the drill press, causing it to no longer drill accurately. I would think the same concern would apply to using a typical cordless drill with the Kreg jig. To prevent that, I wonder if it would be possible to mount the Kreg's mortice cutter in a palm router. Routers are made to handle those lateral forces.
I was wondering why they didn't make it for a router in the first place.
This is the most useful out of all the videos I've seen on this particular subject. Thank you for creating and sharing this!!
Thank you for another excellent review. I’m not sure if you allow plugs for other channels but Izzy Swan designed a horizontal mortising jig a few months ago with plans and a video. I built one and it works really well for a total cost around a hundred dollars.
Thank you for the thorough review!
In all honesty though! I am STICKING with my dowel jig! precisely being able to drill 3 dowel holes into both pieces and then glue them together makes for a 1. faster 2. easier 3. cheaper and 4. more precise connection!
Thanks for the review. The domino is my next big purchase I've used dowels like crazy for years.
Thanks for the review, always helpful. Agree it’s a no brainer the dowel jig is good choice nd price. Festool is amazing, but I have invested in the PantoRouter over 8 years ago and I love the versatility.
Sorry if it’s already been said but Kreg calls it a “Loose Tenon Jig.” Initially I thought maybe that meant floating, but apparently not?!
I think floating tenon and loose tenon are terms I have seen before to do the same thing
There are floating tenons, loose tenons, and "a prick in a bucket" ...
Very good review. However for those of us on a budget, I’d suggest checking out Izzy Swann’s Mortiser which is a fun build and less than $100 using a very serviceable Bauer router ($50 on sale) and any size straight bit. Stationary but very flexible and tight mortises self made.
You should also mention that there are three sizes of drill/router bits, 6, 8 and 10mm. They are $60/ea. They are also of limited depth, 1" max. Slightly less than the Domino at 28mm.
I also wonder how well either the Kreg or the Domino would handle 1/2" stock. Especially on the end of a board with a narrow width. It looks like the opening on the Kreg could be problematic.
Yet another great review Marc. I've had a domino for about 15 years now and still love it but would be willing to replace it with a vastly less expensive system so I was wanting to like this. Maybe it because I'm a retired mechanical engineer but the mortise and tenon fit is as critical to the performance of this device as anything and it looks like either a major engineering or quality failure. The flex is absolutely and engineering failure. I think Kreg products on the whole are well engineered but this, particularly considering they collaborated with Jessem is just strange to me.
Spot on review, Marc~! The Domino is a lot more expensive tool, but for me it was love at first use. Not that impressed by the Kreg, but as you mentioned, the DowelMax is a great alternative. I started off with the old dowel jig that centers itself on the workpiece and over time (years) tired of it. But then, I discovered the DowelMax (a few years ago thanks to John Parilla...ParillaWorks) and bought one. It's a fantastic tool that is so much more versatile than my original dowel jig. Yes, more expensive, but a worthwhile purchase.
Again, great informational video~!
I'm a simple man; Marc posts, I click...especially for tool reviews because they are the best out there.
The deal on the Canadian site is cheaper due to our weak dollar. $50 less. The reason the kreg one is so loose is that you cant help but introduce some up and down motion when attempting to keep the drill vertical. Every time it wiggles up and down the sloppy mortise gets worse. I can't help but mention that Jessum's quality is unmatched.
Might as well give it a go eh?
Great review, thanks. I never thought of adding DowelMax to the list of tools to compare but now I think My preference is for the dowelmax. Flexibility and accuracy
Dowelmax is amazing jig and I used it until I got the Domino. Since then, it sits in the drawer. The drawback is just time.
Both are pinnacles of quality wood joints, and differences are time and money.
Best regards from Croatia 😊
Can I have it?
I think it’s great for a first version and I’m sure they’ll improve it in a version or two. Would have liked to see the Jessum compared to it. Dowels will still be king if you can’t afford a domino, but that Rockler jig seems fine for now if you like drilling a lot. Will there be a video comparing all of them???
Been doing woodworking professionally for 15 years, just got the Domino this year, was stupid to wait this long, it's a game changer.
Nice review as always. Will stick with my dowelmax. Great quality, accuracy, and ease of use.
Love the review. I like the Rockler one myself. i think it is super solid for the most part. Not a Domino killer because of setup, however a real nice piece of kit if you take the time to set it up correctly. Most importantly, thank you for saving me some cash. That looked like a nice tool, until it wasn't. Many thanks! 😃
I'm wondering about 2 things: 1) whether its possible to make the width of the mortise even smaller to make the fit tighter. 2) whether the jig could be oriented and clamped so that you can use the drill vertically
I was wondering about switching it to vertical as well. Also wondering if you could add angle bracket to stiffen the mount since it doesn't seem beefy enough.
Thank you for the straightforward, honest video. You saved me $300.
Glad I could help
I have a dowel max for over 20 years, love it.
Very good impartial review & constructive comments.
I put off the getting the dowel max for years. It’s an amazing jig I use it in combination with pocket holes often.
Great shirt! I mean the review was cool too, but the shirt was definitely the star 😂
That Lorraine intro had me dying 🤣perfect use of a clip (and BTTF 1 is the best film in the trilogy)
Great review, you've convinced me that it's not accurate enough, especially for the cost, better off with a dowel jig in the lower price range and still having the use of a drill. Far from a Domino killer.
Thanks for the review. I was hoping the MortiseMate would be a viable alternative to me buying the Festool. Looks like it is noy quite ready for prime time. I'll keep saving for the Domino.
Great video. Love the comparisons and the other options.
IMHO, Kreg needs to be worried asking $300 for something that sloppy. I might consider it at $100 to $150, but $300 is just way too much for that sloppy of a joint. I'd like to see a review of the JessEm to see if it too creates sloppy joints.
Between this and those Temu jigs for a trim router I'd take the temu jigs any day
My great grandmother before passing, whispered to me, “make sure your joinery is domino tight.”
The dowelmax is a well engineered tool that’s accurate and easy to use.
Yep. Love my dowelmax.
Really interesting indeed! Thanks for the review, Marc! 😊
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
The Dowel max is great. I've built a lot of stuff with it and the joints are spot on and tight. You can also get 1/4" & 1/2" kits to supplement the 3/8". I've never made a bad joint with it.
Was able to try this out a couple weeks ago. If I didn't already owned a Domino I would have started with this.
Thanks for the comprehensive review. One thing to note is that you could make your own tenons that fit better than the ones from Kreg.
In other words, no good 👎🏻. Thank you for your video. 👍🏻👍🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I started with a cheap dowel guide that I hated. Was inconsistent and had alignment issues (sorry I don't recall the brand). Upgraded to the DowelMax. Was much much better and if you take your time, you get great results, but still a bit fiddly in my opinion. For miters and straight connections between two pieces of similar thickness wood, it works great. Stepped up to the Domino and for the ease of use, consistency, reliability and quality of joints, it is pretty hard to beat. I completely understand the cost issue, but I believe the reason that Jessum is phasing out their system is folks just don't want to pay a couple hundred bucks for a tool that is "good, but not quite as good as the Domino." It is slower, more fiddly, and just harder to use. Just my five cents on the issue. Appreciate your review Marc, and completely agree. Kreg took a swing, and think they missed with this one. Hey, how do you compare the Lamello Biscuit joiner with their fasteners to one of these :)
I think for large products and if you do a lot of them, domino is way to go. It is easily portable, fast, but expensive. The alternatives are great for the hobbyist, garage woodworker, etc where cost is a concern. I have the dowelmax and it works great for me.
Second the vote on the dowelmax
i was going to ask about putting the bit in a drill press and using the jig upright until you showed the Jessum. I was also wondering if maybe just using a slightly smaller bit would help tighten up the fit.
I would also look at the 3 axis slot mortiser that Gregory Paolini designed a few years ago...great design...Woodsmith Shop not long ago also designed a 3 axis jig also
Great informative video. When I saw the thumbnail, I thought awesome! I don't have to buy a festival, but after watching the video I am going to pass on Kreg and look at the JessEm or a dowel jig.
Also, I watched a video of yours building a cross-cut sled. I thought you dyed your hair and shaved your beard. Then I saw that it was made 13 years ago. 😂
Got the e-mail on this from Kreg, and couldn’t wait to start seeing reviews lol
In MX, some older tablesaws come with a side drill for mortises using that principle, and allows you to do it "free" hand. I guess is up to you in the end.
Very well done review. It's way too expensive for what it does. As he said, a high quality dowel jig is WAY cheaper and just as quick and effective, if not more. And if you really need speed, just save up for the Domino.
The only thing I will push back on a little is the lack of tightness/slop in the joints. When you first showed that, my first thought was , "oh that's kind of nice". I build custom cabinetry for a living and have a Domino, several biscuit jointers, dowel Jigs, etc. Sometimes, a little peice of sawdust will get under the tool or user error causes the biscuit or domino mortise to be off by a bit. Because those tenons are so tight, it makes it difficult to align your workpiece without redoing the joint. Sometimes, I would actually like a little slop to be able to align things as I please, even if I was slightly off when machining the cut. Obviously, too much is bad and won't make a strong glue joint so there are limits.
Great video marc. The weight of drill on a person's wrist would possibly wear over time.
Being on the uk I have the Peter Millard 10 minute workshop domino jig. Really only works excellently on 18mm sheet materials although I have used it on thicker timber. Works well and relatively cheap. You do need a router though.
I did gasp at the price tag of my domino when I bought it, but given the opportunity it has given me I do not regret my purchase. This is a diy or hobbyist item at best.
I love the kreg jig, I also like the way kreg is always coming up with new products. I don’t think they are quite there but I’m sure they will perfect it
LOVE the clip from BTTF. Good job.