Yes I have panels that have the same defect as yours and my results were the same - Also I have what looks like water behind the glass, but again the output is not affected.
Good to see you confirm that cracks don't make much difference. I guess that this is because current in the wafer is generated between front and back surfaces of the wafer, so a cracked cell then just behaves as a collection of smaller cells in parallel, as long as their currents can be collected by the tabbing and grid.
I love power way too much to deal with 100 watt panels. I have 355 watt panels and I see that as work. These require way more work.. By the time you put up your 300 watts, I have already put up near a thousand watts Larger panels with MPPT controllers are by far, the way to go.
I’d like more but my roof is filled. I have two different battery packs as well as testing things. So I’ve found a selection of different panels helps me in my situation, but if I could triple the size of the shed I’d happily triple the size of my panels :-)
I would think (as other people have pointed out here) that it is probably due to thermal expansion, I noticed you had some plastic? shrouds around the bolts but nothing to allow expansion between the mounting rails and the bolt heads? 2mm thick soft rubber washers should allow enough give, I would do all panels to stop possible further cracks, no need to over tighten them I'm sure they won't fly away, I also think a coating of UV resistant clear resin over the cracks may help stop future water ingress
I have a 150 watt panel I bought cheap about five or six years ago because the glass was compleatly shattered, with spiderweb patterns and all. From what I can tell, it's kicking out it's rated power (well, as near to the nameplate as solar panels tend to do!) and hasn't shown any signs of crapping out. So a few cracks here and there often don't cause any real problems. I also have some panels bolted down in a similar fashion, however the rails I use are made of timber and that probably helps with the expansion etc.
Hi. Did u put anything/sealant on them 2 prevent any moisture ingress..? I ask as I've seen similar & am thinking of getting some... Thanks in advance.
@@MaxMax-dq1lu In my case I just cleaned off the surface with turps and sprayed over it with a can of clear acrylic , deliberately overspraying it the serverly cracked bits. Did a few coats. Eventually the product on the surface of the good glass areas peels off but I reckon where it has penetrated the cracks it has stayed.
Looked like there was some distortion of the back liner on the damaged pannel, but hard to tell how much from the video. Can you test them in-circuit under load from within the shed?
@Adam Welch Hi Adam... If I was u, I would want 2... a. Re-test the panels on a sunny day. b. Turn the panels upside down, & hang the cable down so it's accessible without removing the panels again & again, so u can keep monitoring the situation. Putting the connection point in a small weather proof box. Though ur current results seem 2 indicate that both panels r working comparably, u need 2 bare in mind... even 1 damaged cell can seriously degrade the whole panels output (like with shading) so bare in mind ur testing 2 panels both of which have some damage, what u really need is 1 good panel 2 compare it 2... U could also compare 2 1 of ur good panels, factoring 4 the different power outputs... The panel with more damage does seem 2 be a tiny bit worse than the other. I'd want 2 keep an eye on them, as they will probably get worse over time & possibly reach a point where u will need 2 replace them. Hence why I recommended turning them upside down 2 make future testing easier & less time consuming. Best of luck buddy.
These are neither microcracks nor snail tracks. Microcracks are almost always invisible to the naked eye and require EL imaging to be detected after supplying power to the module's terminals. Snail tracks involve the silver "grid" of the module to oxidise (due to moisture ingresion and microcracks) and migrate unto the encapsulant so it looks like it has disappeared... Those are proper cracks due to thermal or other mechanical stress most likely. In your case though it looks like the cracks have not created any completely isolated pieces of silicon so eventually the generated current finds its way to the thick interconnecting ribbons and hence you have the same current on both modules. It would be interesting to have IR imaging though as I suspect that there will be a bit higher ohmic losses on the cracked cells...
Is it the Silicon Wafer it's self that is damaged ? Square Inches is the deal. As long as the backing of the Cell is intact I would think they would still produce the prescribed power. I would call it good and mush on. On the other hand now you have a excuse to purchase 9 more panels, eaaaa?
I had been wondering if this could result in an upgrade, but as these seem to be working fine I can put that off for now. Yeah it’s the silicone itself which has the cracks but the backing seems to be fine. Cheers
Hi Adam Welch i am a viewer from Algeria and i have so many questions to ask you about electrical installations. the two most urgent are related to solar installation and grounding 1. i have a distribution board with two sources of electricity, city electric and solar (2400W inverter) the thing is the two electric circuit are never in contact with each other but i have to properly ground all the electric sockets for safety . the question is do i make sepret grouding bar for the diffrent sockets or it doesn't matter or there is other solutions. 2. for my solar installation i have a pure sine wave inverter from EPEVER 2400 watt and the problem is that it is properly grounded but when i mesur from the neutral or live wire to the ground i have half of the potential (115 volt) . ps: i have 230 volt between neutral and live i heard about neutral bonding and floating neutral but it is high level for me. i hope you can help and thank you in advance.
You've got some cracks on your SolarPannel with not really measurable differences. I've got this days a Xiaomi Router 4A with a completely chinese language environment. No chenglish Manual :-(( Who has the bigger problems? A really nice router but I'm not able to login. I believe, You've got the better chinese product, also with cracks ;-)
Would you be willing to allow me to to receive answers to various questions in regards to solar panels charge controllers and various types of batteries
If they are renogy solar panels they are known for poor quality the crystal Wafers have cracks in it that are visible when brand new but get worse after few years. Hard to recognize when new but definitely a few years later
very bad and dangerous advice on saying there is no problem short circuit the output as there is no power... solar panels are generators and if you short circuit them they can eventually catch fire. there are cases.
I don’t believe you are correct. Solar panels state their short circuit current and this is a standard test of their performance. For heat to be generated within the panel you need both voltage and current. When shorted you only get current. Google short circuit solar panel and you will find many results explaining this is a standard way to test panels. Cheers
Solar panels are one of the safest possible sources of electricity to short aside from a half decent bench power supply, the only time I've ever heard of solar panels catching fire are the ones from tesla installed on walmart stores which was caused by damaged wire insulation among other issues and typically electrical fires are started from arcing, so it's much more likely for the cable or connectors attached to the panels to fail and cause a fire rather than the panel itself. These guys here did a good write-up on the walmart incident if you want to read more: www.thesolarnerd.com/blog/can-solar-panels-cause-fires/
Actually, power is produced when a solar panel is shorted. Just not across the load because there is none. Instead it's dissipated in the cells themselves. Ohm's law and all that. ;) However, I doubt it would ever cause a fire as there can't be any more heat produced than what would be with the sun falling on a piece of black something about the size of that solar panel! And besides, shunting type charge controllers used to be all the rage and I never heard any reports of issues from people using those although it was said they wore out the panels faster.
Actually, when the battery is fully charged, the charge controller (mine is PWM type) put the solar panel into short circuit. So it is absolutely no problem shorten their terminals. Thanks Adam for great video. Best regards.
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Yes I have panels that have the same defect as yours and my results were the same - Also I have what looks like water behind the glass, but again the output is not affected.
That’s good to hear. Thank you.
Good to see you confirm that cracks don't make much difference.
I guess that this is because current in the wafer is generated between front and back surfaces of the wafer, so a cracked cell then just behaves as a collection of smaller cells in parallel, as long as their currents can be collected by the tabbing and grid.
Good to see the Solar shed again mate, you been busy lately ?
Thanks. Yes I’m afraid I have been fairly busy. Hope to you the content a bit again soon. Cheers Raith
@@AdamWelchUK Busy is usually a good thing at this point in time. Glad your keeping busy man.
I love power way too much to deal with 100 watt panels. I have 355 watt panels and I see that as work. These require way more work.. By the time you put up your 300 watts, I have already put up near a thousand watts Larger panels with MPPT controllers are by far, the way to go.
I’d like more but my roof is filled. I have two different battery packs as well as testing things. So I’ve found a selection of different panels helps me in my situation, but if I could triple the size of the shed I’d happily triple the size of my panels :-)
I would think (as other people have pointed out here) that it is probably due to thermal expansion,
I noticed you had some plastic? shrouds around the bolts but nothing to allow expansion between the mounting rails and the bolt heads?
2mm thick soft rubber washers should allow enough give, I would do all panels to stop possible further cracks, no need to over tighten them I'm sure they won't fly away,
I also think a coating of UV resistant clear resin over the cracks may help stop future water ingress
I have a 150 watt panel I bought cheap about five or six years ago because the glass was compleatly shattered, with spiderweb patterns and all. From what I can tell, it's kicking out it's rated power (well, as near to the nameplate as solar panels tend to do!) and hasn't shown any signs of crapping out. So a few cracks here and there often don't cause any real problems. I also have some panels bolted down in a similar fashion, however the rails I use are made of timber and that probably helps with the expansion etc.
Hi. Did u put anything/sealant on them 2 prevent any moisture ingress..?
I ask as I've seen similar & am thinking of getting some...
Thanks in advance.
@@MaxMax-dq1lu In my case I just cleaned off the surface with turps and sprayed over it with a can of clear acrylic , deliberately overspraying it the serverly cracked bits. Did a few coats. Eventually the product on the surface of the good glass areas peels off but I reckon where it has penetrated the cracks it has stayed.
Looked like there was some distortion of the back liner on the damaged pannel, but hard to tell how much from the video. Can you test them in-circuit under load from within the shed?
@Adam Welch
Hi Adam... If I was u, I would want 2...
a. Re-test the panels on a sunny day.
b. Turn the panels upside down, & hang the cable down so it's accessible without removing the panels again & again, so u can keep monitoring the situation. Putting the connection point in a small weather proof box.
Though ur current results seem 2 indicate that both panels r working comparably, u need 2 bare in mind... even 1 damaged cell can seriously degrade the whole panels output (like with shading) so bare in mind ur testing 2 panels both of which have some damage, what u really need is 1 good panel 2 compare it 2...
U could also compare 2 1 of ur good panels, factoring 4 the different power outputs...
The panel with more damage does seem 2 be a tiny bit worse than the other.
I'd want 2 keep an eye on them, as they will probably get worse over time & possibly reach a point where u will need 2 replace them.
Hence why I recommended turning them upside down 2 make future testing easier & less time consuming.
Best of luck buddy.
Nice
Interesting.
These are neither microcracks nor snail tracks. Microcracks are almost always invisible to the naked eye and require EL imaging to be detected after supplying power to the module's terminals. Snail tracks involve the silver "grid" of the module to oxidise (due to moisture ingresion and microcracks) and migrate unto the encapsulant so it looks like it has disappeared... Those are proper cracks due to thermal or other mechanical stress most likely.
In your case though it looks like the cracks have not created any completely isolated pieces of silicon so eventually the generated current finds its way to the thick interconnecting ribbons and hence you have the same current on both modules. It would be interesting to have IR imaging though as I suspect that there will be a bit higher ohmic losses on the cracked cells...
also consider the expansion /contraction etc if mounted firmly to a roof
Glad the middle panel seems fine. what were you standing on to the side of the shed ? something of stone it seems ?
Hi Maico. The garden wall is right next to the side of the shed. I hopped up there like a gazelle! :-)
@@AdamWelchUK ah that explains it :)
as long as they still produce power there fine
Where did you get the mounting rails and clips from please? I have 3 panels to put up. 285 watt 1.6 meter long!
Is it the Silicon Wafer it's self that is damaged ? Square Inches is the deal. As long as the backing of the Cell is intact I would think they would still produce the prescribed power. I would call it good and mush on. On the other hand now you have a excuse to purchase 9 more panels, eaaaa?
I had been wondering if this could result in an upgrade, but as these seem to be working fine I can put that off for now. Yeah it’s the silicone itself which has the cracks but the backing seems to be fine. Cheers
Looks more like expansion cracks to me. Make sure they have enough room to move.. a millimeter or so should be more than enough.
i have panels mounted to wood - wood Moves alot
Hi
Adam Welch i am a viewer from Algeria and i have so many questions to ask you about electrical installations.
the two most urgent are related to solar installation and grounding
1. i have a distribution board with two sources of electricity, city electric and solar (2400W inverter)
the thing is the two electric circuit are never in contact with each other but i have to properly ground all the electric sockets for safety .
the question is do i make sepret grouding bar for the diffrent sockets or it doesn't matter or there is other solutions.
2. for my solar installation i have a pure sine wave inverter from EPEVER 2400 watt and the problem is that it is properly grounded but when i mesur from the neutral or live wire to the ground i have half of the potential (115 volt) .
ps: i have 230 volt between neutral and live
i heard about neutral bonding and floating neutral but it is high level for me.
i hope you can help and thank you in advance.
What are you powering just the shed?
You've got some cracks on your SolarPannel with not really measurable differences. I've got this days a Xiaomi Router 4A with a completely chinese language environment. No chenglish Manual :-(( Who has the bigger problems? A really nice router but I'm not able to login. I believe, You've got the better chinese product, also with cracks ;-)
Hi there I'D also have a look at the foliage creeping over the the roof
Would you be willing to allow me to to receive answers to various questions in regards to solar panels charge controllers and various types of batteries
Why don't you use stainless steel bolts and washers?
Right, why?
If they are renogy solar panels they are known for poor quality the crystal Wafers have cracks in it that are visible when brand new but get worse after few years. Hard to recognize when new but definitely a few years later
Everything Renogy is high priced garbage
Add Renesolar India.
You can back-feed your solar panel and make it act as a (bad) led to see defective parts.
ruclips.net/video/6WGKz2sUa0w/видео.html
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very bad and dangerous advice on saying there is no problem short circuit the output as there is no power... solar panels are generators and if you short circuit them they can eventually catch fire. there are cases.
I don’t believe you are correct. Solar panels state their short circuit current and this is a standard test of their performance. For heat to be generated within the panel you need both voltage and current. When shorted you only get current. Google short circuit solar panel and you will find many results explaining this is a standard way to test panels. Cheers
Solar panels are one of the safest possible sources of electricity to short aside from a half decent bench power supply, the only time I've ever heard of solar panels catching fire are the ones from tesla installed on walmart stores which was caused by damaged wire insulation among other issues and typically electrical fires are started from arcing, so it's much more likely for the cable or connectors attached to the panels to fail and cause a fire rather than the panel itself.
These guys here did a good write-up on the walmart incident if you want to read more: www.thesolarnerd.com/blog/can-solar-panels-cause-fires/
Actually, power is produced when a solar panel is shorted. Just not across the load because there is none. Instead it's dissipated in the cells themselves. Ohm's law and all that. ;)
However, I doubt it would ever cause a fire as there can't be any more heat produced than what would be with the sun falling on a piece of black something about the size of that solar panel! And besides, shunting type charge controllers used to be all the rage and I never heard any reports of issues from people using those although it was said they wore out the panels faster.
Actually, when the battery is fully charged, the charge controller (mine is PWM type) put the solar panel into short circuit. So it is absolutely no problem shorten their terminals.
Thanks Adam for great video.
Best regards.
@@vgamesx1 thanks for the info