Reduced state pension? Contracting out explained. Why you might not be getting what you expected
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- Опубликовано: 3 авг 2024
- The state pension is fairly straightforward these days, you pay 35 years full years of qualifying national insurance contributions and you get the full amount.
But things were a lot more complicated prior to 2016 where there was a 2 tier system. This causes a lot of confusion so in this video I am going to explain all about the obscure acronyms like SERP and COPE and most importantly help you work out what your state pension will be - or if you are already past state pension age, it will help to explain why you get the amount that you get.
To book a free call with me go to the link below
[diannesullivan.co](diannesullivan.co/)
Where to check your state pension record
www.gov.uk/check-state-pension
timestamps
0:00 intro
0:51 what was contracting out?
2:30 contracting out of a DB scheme
2:54 contracting out of a DC scheme
3:33 what were protected rights?
4:35 what does it mean for my state pension?
6:20 will I receive the COPE amount?
All I know is I have paid NI for 50 years and get less than someone who washed up on these shores having paid absolutely nothing. That's not complicated to understand.
Well aren't you the simple one
@@andrewholdaway813dont be ridiculous, no one told me i would get less state pension for working in the nhs and the council, in fact up to 2016 this wasnt the case, it amounts to theft just before we retired
@@risenshine2783
Don't you be ridiculous; instead read the comment I was replying to.
I know I was never asked either when joining Civil Service for 20 years and when I joined a Blue Chip Company for another 20 years so have a smaller Pension..
After 50 years of paying in I found I had been contracted out for 7 years and didn't know. I do get some extra pension above the basic amount but I noticed this does not increase at the same percentage as the basic pension. I do think that anyone with extra years paying in above 35 years should benefit from it.
I made it my business to be aware of all the implications regarding my state pension. I was opted out on a DB scheme, retired at 51 on March 27th 2010 and bought 8 years x NI contributions from after 2016 until present to get a full state pension next year. Those 8 extra payments increase your pension by roughly £5 per week each and therefore it takes about 3 years to get your money back. ( A no brainer for a healthy and fit person ). So when I am 69, I will be quids in for the rest of my life, with no pension deductions caused by being opted out, which because of my lifestyle choices, should be a long one by the law of averages but obviously nothing is guaranteed.
Hi, I dug out my 2019 State Pension Forecast and it gave me cope value of £36,88.
Now the top of the letter told me my pension at that stage was £139,66
It also said if I worked for another 7 qualifying years before 2038 I would get £168,60 at retirement the maximum in 2019,
So, read the letter carefully because if you keep paying in you can offset the cope value and still get the maximum state pension.
Take care M.
The reason you were contracted out was your Employer paid less National Insurance. I contracted back in when I changed jobs.
Pensions are utterly baffling. I recently found out I will be getting an additional sum, arising from being contracted out at the age of 65 (not my state pension age, which is 67). I had no idea that this sum existed separately from my main work pension until a few months ago. It is expected to be a few thousand, although I have no exact sum, which is good, but baffling as to how I went my whole career not knowing about it.
They talk of GMP (guaranteed minimum pension), SERPS, and COPE. It turns out they are referring to the same money. But it was never on my annual pension statement. It is like that song about Liz, Lizzie and Beth all being the same peraon.
I am relatively switched on regarding money, but this utterly confused me.
I'm in a similar situation, I only found out about it when chatting to an old colleague who recently hit 65 and got an extra pension he was not expecting. I'm still unclear how much I will get.
Thank you for explaining this Dianne. It shows how many changes have been made to pensions these last few decades! 😊
Thanks Dianne. The Calculation of COPE has not been published. It doesn’t matter, except it affects the “Starting Amount” for some people so just have to hope it’s been done correctly. In any case, people who were contracted may have enough working years post 2016 to build up the new state pension before they reach SPA. These people will then have a maximum state pension PLUS some more pension benefit from contracting out.
Exactly my situation and what I have done.
Pensions are a complicated and technical subject, which is difficult to explain to an ordinary person. Most people aren’t very numerate these days and even for those who are, pensions are on another level. To be fair, this lady explained as well as possible.
Amazing video, A friend of mine referred me to a financial adviser sometime ago and we got to talking about investment and money. I started investing with $150k and in the first 2 months, my portfolio was reading $274,800. Crazy right!, I decided to reinvest my profit and get more interesting. For over a year we have been working together making consistent profit just bought my second home 2 weeks ago and care for my family.
Hi. I’ve been forced to find additional sources of income as I got retrenched. I barely have time to continue trading and watch my investments since I had my second child. Do you think I should take a break for a while from the market and focus on other things or return whenever I have free time or is it a continuous process? Thanks
@@David-n8o However, if you do not have access to a professional like Clementina Abate Russo, quitting your job to focus on trading may not be the best approach. It is important to consider all options and seek guidance from reliable sources before making any major decisions. Consulting with an AI or using automated trading systems can also be helpful in managing investments while balancing other commitments
@@julie-e3t Oh please I’d love that. Thanks!
@@David-n8o Clementina Abate Russo is her name
Lookup with her name on the webpage.
You explain everything so well i enjoy and learn a lot from your videos.
What I have worked out is, if you have a private pension/ workplace pension and the state pension you will only end up paying more tax when you reach retirement. I therefore decided not to buy the supposed 4yrs I was short as I would end up with even more tax to pay!! They get you whichever way they can. Pay tax all your life, save for a pension and are then penalised again. Call that fair??!!! As well as having to wait an extra 6yrs before claiming my pension too!
Your pension contribution are tax free, you should speak to someone ref 4 years contributions to the state pension as you might find you can retire early using your personal pension which will reduce your tax, just a thought.
What, like men have always done ? Women wanted equality but only the good bit eh ? Waspi women deserve nothing but what they put in to the system. Not extra money that would be taken from other people who did.
it takes 2 years 11 months to get extra NIC 's back after retirement age. After that you gain. It is a no brainer ? Tax is only 20% for the sum above the £12750 allowance. All the rest after 3 years, you are getting for the rest of your life.
Just because you are above pension age doesn't mean that you are immune from tax. I get my state pension next year but I have been in receipt of my works pension since 2010 and have been paying tax on that since then and rightly so on all money above the allowance like everybody else does.
Sorry but you are only looking at negatives as while you may have tax to pay, that's because you would have a much higher pension so more money in you pocket
Can someone please correct me if I am wrong. Question: if I have gaps in contributions, I can claim pension credits, correct? In which case I can claim council tax reduction/exemption, correct? What is the incentive of paying 1 or 2 years contributions gap?
I was in the Forestry Commission in the early 70s, they introduced a company pension scheme and told us that we can opt out of serps as we will be getting a company pension as well as an old age pension. I took this advice but come retirement my old age pension is a lot less than if I had not contracted out.
I requested my state pension forecast and - most importantly - my national insurance (NI) record going back 40+ years showing several years where I hadn’t paid enough and I fell short by 3 years. Because I had also been contracted out for several years during my employment history I focused on the 2016+ years to pay the shortfall amounts (one year was about £96 short, another about £600 etc) to bring me up to the 35 years required, knowing that every year of full contributions from 2016 would ‘cancel out’ the deduction from state pension for being contracted out.
It’s exhausting to navigate the process and the position is different for every individual it seems. But in the end I was lucky - by paying less than £1,000 to make up missed contributions for the years 2016+ I now receive the full state pension of £221.20 / week. Best return I’ll ever get on £850!
" If " we reach pension age ...
😮 definitely not guaranteed "
Despite all govt statistics
Telling us every body is living
Longer ......
I personally dont see loads
Of 90 year olds around 😮
They are all at the skateboard park or motocrossing ….🙄🤣
@@wl660or on love island 😂
@@wl660I've seen a few in the cemetery too .....😂
The ones who had an easy life don't mix in our circles.
until 1947 the retirement age was 70 and the lifespan lower than today
Thank you for explaining this. My 65th birthday was a few days after the new system came in. I was expecting to get the headline figure, as all the publicity said that everyone would get the new rate. However my figures were a lot lower. When I queried this I was told that in my case I would be better off on the old system, so that was implemented. I wasn't convinced about this, and could find no explanation as to why my pension was so much lower. Eventually I spoke to someone more knowledgeable who explained that it was due to contracting out of SERPs, whereas that had never been mentioned until then. Out of all my friends and relatives of pensionable age, my pension is the lowest, so I'm still not convinced that it's right.
Same here 😢.
Thanks. Very helpful. 😊👍🏾
Thanks, this is a really useful summary on Serps - something that is easily overlooked
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks for this explanation. I was contracted out in a job which had a relatively young normal pension age. I started a temporary job a few years after I retired and ended up staying much much longer. I now have only two years of NI contributions to make in order to get the full state pension, and three years to do it.
I was in a similar situation to you. Requested my state pension forecast and - most importantly - my national insurance (NI) record going back 40+ years showing several years where I hadn’t paid enough and I also fell short by 3 years. Because I had also been contracted out for several years during my employment history I focused on the 2016+ years to pay the shortfall amounts (one years was about £96, another about £600 etc) to bring me up to the 35 years required, knowing that every year of full contributions from 2016 would ‘cancel out’ the deduction from state pension for being contracted out.
It’s exhausting to navigate the process and the position is different for every individual it seems. But in the end I was lucky - by paying less than £1,000 to make up missed contributions for the years 2016+ I now receive the full state pension of £221.20 / week. Best return I’ll ever get on £850!
This is really helpful, thank you for clarifying this complex subject… 😊
Glad it was helpful!
Good explanation Dianne. Not like any Government to make things complicated through the years!!😂
Thanks for the explanation. I served in the RAF for 7 years, prior to 2016, but I'm still on course for a full state pension.
Your lucky I got out of the force's April 1975 we do not get
A forces pension, we were expected to pay for our own on the pittance they gave us at the time.
@@tommyhall6695It was our choice to stay or leave though. I’m also an AFPS 75 scheme recipient. We received literature about contracting out. I stayed in. We were warned that it would be a mistake to leave.
@@mikewinston8709 I was glad to get out to be honest. Funny from 1969 to 1975 we were always told to get a private pension, no way could we afford it on our pay at the time.
Certainly a hot topic by all at the moment. I just hope everyone can understand what is needed but lack of proper guided financial decision making for those on the lower economic ladder will ultimately lead to people losing out on benefits they are entitled to.
Onus on you as an individual to recognise the need to plan for retirement. The state pension is part of that so take the time to understand it, it's not that difficult and fully set out at gov.uk. Importantly the triple lock is extraordinarily expensive to the state and might not be around in the future, so take the time to understand how that would affect you too.
This is great content and very timely… I was just trying to work through my numbers over the last fortnight (COPE for me looks like a 20% reduction in state pension).
I really think the government could provide more information online to help work out how that figure might drop as you add more years of work. Looking at my record, there’s no indication how many years were contracted out… and no opportunity to make up the shortfall on those years. I’d also like to know how many more years beyond 35 I’d have to contribute to remove the reduction… but they don’t show that either.
There’s loads of opportunity to make up the shortfall. You can pay NI going forward at an accumulation of 1/35 for every year. Or if self employed, pay voluntary NI contributions up to retirement age (about £180 per year). If you have gaps, you have until next April to volunteer to pay those missing years at a cost of about £800pa….but for most people, they should just look to pay the lesser amount going forward.
The UK pension is an absolute joke, how on earth is an average elderly person supposed to understand what you have just explained . I challenge you that many university students would struggle to understand. The current state pension doesn’t even equate to the minimum UK wage.
Agreed.. I'm confused and I certainly couldn't follow what the lady was saying 🤔
Well this is a legacy issue and it’s much simpler now
@@Banthah Seriously, are you having a laugh ?
@@gingerali In what way?
@@Banthah you state :,it’s much simpler now’ Really ?
Thanks for the video Dianne. New subscriber here, enjoying your content.
My COPE amount is £32 per week. From 67 (let’s pretend state pension age will stay at 67…) to 85 (average expectency) is 18 years which means a total of around £30k would have been paid to me. The contracted out part of my pensions pot is £44k and growing, and I’m only 53. So I’d say, opting out was a great move!
Hi, thanks for subscribing. It’s great to hear that contacting out worked for you. I think that the calculation you’ve illustrated here will help others work out if they are better or worse off. And for you, presumably you’ll have full new state pension given you have another 14 years on the new system? U less you choose to retire early ofc. Thanks again for subscribing and commenting
@@DianneSullivan Thanks for replying. According to HMRC I’ve paid 34 yrs so far, one to go in terms of full contributions. Actually looking at 2-4 years before I call it a day 👍
@@Banthah
My circumstances were similar to yours and, having retired last year on full state pension, c/o also proved to have been advantageous for me.
But but but, that’s only because the legislative cookie crumbled the way it did over the years. This could not have been foreseen ‘back then’, and it could have turned out so differently (as indeed it has for so many - DoB/age being a critical factor - where what you get+when is, has often been, and will continue to be, a lottery’)
So *for once* I ‘gained’ the system, which offsets to some extent all the times I didn’t! 🤣
@@jaywalker1233 Lol good one. Nice to feel you’ve “won” right?
Thanks for your detailed explanation.
I contracted out & was then told to contract back in some years later by my employer.
There is approximately £50k in my private pension for my contracted out contributions.
I get slightly more than the full state pension too.
As you explained it was my state pension contributions post 2016 that I made wiped out the serps deductions & gave me slightly more than the full state pension. (I get £893 every four weeks)
This is the problem with the state pension - it is baffling how they get the figures.
I get £898.36 every 4 weeks but have no idea why I get more than the standard amount. I keep expecting DWP to say it's wrong and I need to pay the extra back. I have 48 years of NI contributions but for about 7 of them I was contracted out of SERPS. That works pension has long been merged in with two others into one single pot that I don't need to touch yet - so avoiding paying any tax.
Baffling. 🤔
@@Broadwould Very baffling, but your situation is similar to mine.
What isn't baffling, is that with the extra £9 every four weeks I can blow it on 3 extra coffees when out with my walking group .....😂
Was conned and bullied in to contracting out Should be a national investigation
I wasn't formed too contacts out but l did and then panicked thinking was it a mistake but l turned state pension age this year and got a full pension. I'm baffled about what happened to SERPS, as my brother lives in Scotland and said that he was paid his SERPS separately from his state pension. I queried this, as l live in England and they told me it goes back into your pension and they don't payout like Scotland does. I'm confused. I got a full state pension anyway, so after they saying that they used it to top me up when l would have got it anyway, as l have worked for more than 35 years in total?
I'm 62 and only just discovered that I was contracted out prior to 2016, likely by my NHS employer. According to my State Pension Forecast, I'm due my full state pension aged 67 but because I'd been contracted out, I have to continue to make full NI contributions till I'm 67, a total of 37 years.
I believe I was contracted out while receiving an Armed forces pension , I will receive the state pension too when I reach the qualifying age. I'm hoping the incoming labour government will not adopt a test means system, I know they'll punish middle class families just to reduce the state pension liabilities.
Labour will means test state pension plus means test the heating allowance or reduce it.
I get the pre 2016 state pension of £169.50p a week with the added SERPS which I paid either side of an opting out period of 17 years it goes up to £278.40p a week
Well explained Dianne. I was in a DB pension scheme and was contracted out. I took early retirement in January 2020 and don’t draw my state pension until I am 67. I have 43 qualifying years towards my state pension but my forecast states I am two years short of receiving the full state pension.
You can probably buy the two years you need - search Money saving expert (Martin Lewis) for a great video on the subject. “Missing NI years”.
It’ll likely cost you £800 approx per year max to increase your State pension by £300 pa approx so it pays for itself after say 3 years. Then it’s triple Locked of course 😀
If you’re lucky and have only missed a complete year by a few days it’ll only cost you a few pounds for a whole year of benefit.
So your state pension forecast is around £208?
@@DeeCee-nb6ev no, it is £198. Not sure if there is any COPE to be added.
Hello. Having worked overseas for many years and now living overseas full time I took advantage of the 2025 deadline to make voluntary contributions to top up my years to meet the 35 year target. Last summer I paid class 2 for one year ( I have 8 more years to pay) They sent a letter confirming I wanted to pay for a certain year. The problem is it's still not showing on my government gateway account as that year is paid in full. This is now a new financial year. Is this a problem a lot of people are experiencing. Im unsure to keep paying extra years not knowing if they will count them or not?
Yes
Am one of them contracted out
Unfortunately I didn't benifit. This
Not only less state pension
More tax on my company pension
After 43Years contribution
My opinion
What was the purpose of this
Just extra cost of tax
But don't worry
I did have the golden years back then 1970
When life was normal
Job for life
Houses like buying like sweets
Having children
All this just normal manual wages back then
Today great income
With state pension and company pension 36 years
Ps
Not having a full state pension
Am only 120 pounds
Short....
Am ok with that
Still having a beautiful life style age66
And my children are my extra pension
❤Amazing
Love your videos always
Thanks ❤
I think the government needs to clarify on its website what is “ full years contributions “ as seen on my specific example I was contracted out so technically not full year’s contributions. My account did include a cope value then removed a couple of weeks later. I don’t know if I can trust the statement I have paid in full!
I retired in 2009 and therefore get the lower State Pension. Whereas my company pension should make up any shortfall, after Gordon Browns raid on pension funds the fund went into deficit and now I am reliant on FAS payments which do not increase annually. This means that the gap between the old State Pension and the new State Pension widens every year when State Pensions are increased by the triple lock.
Best explanation I have heard so far but:
If one has 43 qualifying years for the state pension but was for example Contracted out for 7 of those years, would one still get the full state pension because 43 - 7 => 36 years and one needs 35 years for the full state pension?
I was contracted out of SERPS because the FB scheme would have exceeded the 2/3 limit on final salary ( no LTA in those days)- step forward to 2024 , DB pension long since deferred and frozen , I will be no where near 2/3 pension or LTA so missed out at both ends- thanks UK Gov ( of all colours), MO pensions seem unaffected 🧐
I have a question I think it is a simple question how much dose one get if one has only paid in the minimum 10 years of NI contributions
How does the state pension work out if you've worked abroad and paid contributions in another country for some years.?
I have paid NI contributions for 49 years. Retired 2022, I was 32 weeks NI contributions short after I had a limited company in 2016. HMRC told me that although I had 49 years contributions, the 35 years is counted back from the date I retired. They stated to get full pension I need to pay the short fall in 2016. Surely this is unfair ?
I had 39 years of NI prior to 2016 as only 30 of these count prior to 2016…so as I retired aged 60 in 2018 I’m missing some years to make the 35 required it’s crazy as I’ve got 42 years of NI.
@@BoninBrighton totally agree, crazy
@@philmeechan2666 mind you it’ll be Class 2 to buy that part year so I’d advise biting the bullet and doing it. Class 2 for a full year is only £150
Thanks for yours reply, I checked online, and the cost is £750, I'll phone re the class 2 and say what they say.
Great video thank you. I’ve always worried about opting out of SERPS and feel I was badly advised. I entered in to a DC scheme in 2003 and soon after the companies pension advisor (probably from Norwich Union) came to talk to us about the pension scheme. He made it sound like it was a no brainer to opt out and implied the scheme probably wouldn’t last that long if you didn’t opt out. My main concern is that in 2009 I was made redundant and I got a new job with a more standard pension based on what was mandated for by the government at the time. So I have no idea if the extra benefit from opting out was still either going to my old pension or the new scheme. I had completely forgotten about SERPS so took no action at the time. I’m 45 now so I’m not sure if I will have made 35 full contributions or not (I may have accumulated 3 years, prior to 2003). Chances are though I’ll be 5-10 years short 🙁.
You can find out how many qualifying years you have towards the state pension via the government website. Search for ‘Check your state pension forecast’. Here you can find out how much State Pension you could get etc.
Are you able to explain pension levelling works please? Am I right to assume that I will have a gap between the age of 65 and 67 when my state pension kicks in? I retired 10 years ago at 53 and received an additional £4300 a year levelling
I was opted out. I retired in 2010 at 51 years old. I found out that my state pension would be lower than i expected. Since then, i have bought all the NIC years from 2016 to present. Now my state pension is forecast to be £221 odd per week, next year when i get it and I still have my very good final salary private pension, which i also bought 8 extra years AVC's for as well along side the state pension. I didn't do a WASPI, with my hand out for free stuff that i never accrued and didn't deserve. Claiming ignorance of the widely advertised facts around at the time.
I didn’t know I was contracted out when I paid into a private pension. Luckily I only paid into a private pension at the end of my career. Prior to that I was paying into SERPS which meant the more you paid in the more you get out. The government scrapped that however I got a larger state pension. The state pension is 25% of average earnings and the lowest in the G7. A pension scheme where the rules are always changing !
Is whats wrong is that working from 16 - 66 is 50 years of paying NI so you have paid your 35 years for the full state pension but get nothing extra for the other 15 years.
If you had a DC pension and was contracted out from 1998 - 2012 that would still give you the 35 qualifying years for the full state pension if you have worked 50 years yet thats not the case.
In effect, NI contributions are an additional income tax. The link between NI and pensions is really just nominal.
I agree.
Spot on.
Yes, but be pleased that you have supported a lot of "life style" single mothers ..... 🥱
@@Lookup2Wakeup here in kent as well get to support a lot of those poor migrant boat people. So glad they are put up in a swanky hotel, new mobile phone, designer clothes, etc. It’s so sad that they are not given a nice new car as well. 😬
I contributed for 50 years..and In return I get the equivalent of half the minimum wage..
If you receive £220.00 a week for 20 years you will have been paid £228,800.0 now divide that sum by 50 years and you have £4,576. per year,
@@ChrisSmith-wz5ec then who receives the remuneration from those who died early?£4,500 was a fabulous amount per year 50 years ago..
The £4,576 is what you needed to pay per year for 50 years to receive a flat rate pension of £220.0 per year, as the state pension rises so would the amount you needed to pay. @@griswald7156
That is the sum you would need to pay to fund your state pension, all pension contribution are paid out to the pensioners who have already retired. @@griswald7156
The £4500 is the amount you would need to pay per year, so you could pay yourself £220.0 a week. The pension contributions you make are used to pay the pensions of existing pensioners, there is no fund or pot of money.
I at 67 with 36 years paid into gov pension find am on lower pension then headline by 60 per week confusing or what am quireing this even the pension office found it odd.
I have two pensions. I would much rather have had a Roth 401k throughout my working lifetime. $500/month invested from 25 - 65 at 9% is $2.3mil. I hate my job but can't leave because of I won't get my state pension. What do you think about doing a 70/30 stocks bond ratio?
I would avoid the index funds, mutual funds, or specific stocks for the time being. 5% fixed incomes are the safest bet for now. Save your cash for when the market actually shows signs of recovery
At a point like this, when the pressure is already on you to retire, its best recommended you seek the services of an advisor, as this allows you make smarter investing decisions.
Generally speaking, a good number of people discredit the effectiveness of financial advisor in planning for retirement, For over the past 10years, I’ve had a financial advisor consistently restructure and diversify my portfolio/expenses and I’ve made over $3million in gains… might not be a lot but retirement doesn’t seem so farfetched anymore.
@@ThomasChai05Could you possibly recommend a CFA you've consulted with?
*Gertrude Margaret Quinto* is the licensed advisor I use. Just search the name. You’d find her webpage and necessary details to work with to set up an appointment.
Whilst i fully understood your explanation , in some areas, you are glossing over some of the important points. I was in the military for 23 years, most of which i was contracted out from a DB scheme. When i left the service I contracted back in and paid full NI for 23 years until i retired at 62. I receive my state pension this month and will get an extra £18.84 per week from my serps payments up to 2016. That is my protected payment as my £73 cope payment is included in my military pension, which i have received since age 40. I have 47 year's NI payments and only had 1 day in that 47 years where i was unemployed. Contracting out was vastly beneficial if you understood what it meant and made the right decisions when you finished work in the DB scheme.
I will be honest. I don't have a clue if I opted out or was by any employer. I was in HM forces for 10 years. I'm due that pension & lump sum in 3 years. I will have to go to the link/Government gateway website. A prompt for me Dianne. Thank you.
You would only of opted out if you agreed & signed a declaration supplied by your employer.
@Lookup2Wakeup Probably true.
But most people have no idea what all the paperwork is that they sign when they first start work. Specially true for younger people.
Very odd
If you on benifits all life
Still get state pension??
No wonder n nobody working any more
Gen Z are now known as Gen Sicknote. Pension & free house guaranteed if you on the sick 4 life.
@@stuartregan1627 don't forget genders
Pick and mix like sweets
What a great way to incentivise Benefits Street. Tell people if the work too much & gain wealth they get no pension.
@@stuartregan1627 yes true
If you worked all your life
Still tax you until you dead
My opinion
Stick to benifits
The government's
Will burie you too
No wonder millions of migrates coming to uk every year
Free..
Before I retired in 2018 I got a statement telling me what I would receive as a pension but when I retired I was paid less they say because I opted out but they knew that when they sent me the statement. I paid full insurance for 50 years but the extra 15 years are just lost.
You would think that if you have paid 35 years full NI, which you have it seems, the 15 should not come into it, I’m now worried when I’ve paid my 50 years of NI, of which I am now led to believe 12 years were cope I’m going to be sold short by the government too.
Hello. There is a lot of information on this subject around a lot of it contradictory. I retire at age 66 later this year. I took my Civil Sevice pension at 60 when I retired there. I have paid class 3 NI top ups since then so have a full state pension. Civil Sevants were contracted out as a block in 1978. I stayed in the CS for the whole period of contracting out 1978 to 1997.
My COPE ( or Guarenteed Minimum Pension (GMP)) as I know it is £90 per week.when I queried if this amount wwould be added to my CS pension at SP age I was told btythe pension administrators that it was already being paid and was not an additional amount to my CS pension.
So the confusion continues for me. I suppose I will just have to wait and see what happens……
its a promise made by the civil service that by contracting out of the s2p they would pay at least £90 per week to cover the shortfall in loss of the s2p so yes, you are getting this amount as part of your cs pension but it won't show as an arbitrary number. I am currently the same, having £50 a week COPE but already have over the 35 years needed for the NI contributions yet requiring another 4 years to cover the full "35" years.
Thanks for your reply. So am I right in thinking that they are using my CS pension, which would have been the same amount in any circumstance to cover the COPE amount? Eg my civil service pension is basically calculated on number of years service x final pay up to 50 s% ( on old CS classic pension rules) it does reflect that others seem to be getting COPE as an extra amount at SP age.
Whatever, it's a rip off! The employees were not given an option it's was done (opting out) without your knowledge. It's only now being highlighted years AFTER the fact!!
in my DB scheme if it mentions COPE, is that a separate amount or already included in the DB prediction for retirement? My worry is if the amount they’re saying will be reduced or changed because of it (so it makes planning harder)
I can't be sure about your case, but in my case, it is a separate sum. Last year, I started to receive my DB pension at 60. This year I found out that at 65 I will get a pension relevant to being contracted out. I actually had no idea that this sum of money even existed until recently.
If you were contracted out and made divorced then your ex will typically get half (or more) of your employment pension. But your state pension will be fully reduced, from contracting out, as if you were getting all your employee pension.
Your ex otoh will get their full state pension, and half yours, cuz they were not contracted out.
Moral of the story; don’t be a provider.
Dianne, thanks for the video, it clears up some of the mystery of SERPS, but I have a question. I'm 56 now and my statement on the government state pension website is projected for the full amount at 67 as I already have 35 qualifying years, but if I retire at 60 and crystallise my workplace/private pensions do I have to continue paying my NI contributions until I'm 67 to still recieve the full new state pension or will it be reduced by the COPE amount? My opt out payments have given me about an extra £70,000 in my private pension up to now. Thanks.
This is from google and from personal experience I can confirm this is what happens at the moment. Do you pay NI contributions on pension income?
No, there are no National Insurance contributions to pay on any money you receive from your pension, including on annuity payments. You also don't have to pay National Insurance contributions on any lump sum you might choose to take from your pension (and the first 25% is free of income tax, as well).
@@ChrisSmith-wz5ec Thanks for the reply. Know I won't have to pay NI on pension income once I retire, but will I receive a reduced state pension if I stop paying my NI contributions 7 years before I qualify for my state pension at 67? I don't think I will get a reduced pension but this messed up system is very confusing.
If you've made the 35 years NI contributions then you will have the full pension when you reach your state pension age, I retired 3 years before my state pension age and didn't have a problem.@@kw8757
If you have made 35 years NI contributions you should get the full basic state pension@@kw8757
I'm 55 and always worked, no children or married.. Trying hard to save some money. After watching this I'm wondering.... why bother 😢
I was contracted out with BT it was not explained to me when i joined (just sign here) i found out when i reached pension age and it was a shock. Too late after 28 years
Sorry to hear that. So you’re not getting your COPE payment from BT?
BT pension say i am but wont say how much is COPE and have said contact the DWP
Look for GMP in your pension details. That is the amount they had to guarantee when they contracted you out.
I loved your vlog, but it's a lot to take in.
I retired in 2020, and I was in receipt of the state pension from July 2023.
I was shocked to find out I was not receiving a full state pension.
My National Insurance record shows I have 48 years full contributions, and 2 years not, when I was a full-time student.
When I enquired, I was told I was contracted out by my employer, who and when, and for how long I don't know.
How can I find out who opted me out and for how long?
Can I give a voluntary contribution?
How much would it be and is it worth it?
I already made voluntary contributions to cover the last two years due to early retirement because of ill health.
My pension increased a bit but still short of the full state pension.
After 48 years of full National Insurance contributions, even if I was contracted out. I think I should be in receipt of the full state pension.
Is it possible to get a pension review?
Many thanks.
I am 80 years old. My "reduced" pension that I am supposed to live on is only £152 a week including graduated pension that I paid in for. Without that, my basic pension is only £127 a week! I have 38 full years paid in, (DWP claim despite having been on a training course that was supposed to have credited my NI in the 90s). DWP say that I needed 44 full years to get a full pension so I am severely cut back, losing £50 or more a week. Yet Dianne and others state that you get a full pension if you have only 35 years paid in. Can anyone tell me why I needed 9 years more than others to get my full pension? The 25 pence a week I get for being over 80 doesn't really make up for it. State pension is a total joke and I can't even get additional benefits (eg pension credit) because my wife is younger than me.
Lesson is, sort yourself out and your state pension will be a bonus. I was speaking with someone last week who said her Dad’s pension was reduced because of his assets. So it’s already means tested.
The old state pension is means tested. You can get pension credit to top it up to the new rate. The kick in the teeth is people that bothered to save in a private pension don't get it. This means their private pension is making them worse off. Exactly the Government plan. Don't have a private pension , you will be screwed over.
I was not aware they the state pension was a benefit and was means tested . Someone please explain .
@@gingerali It's only the old state pension that's means tested. You get a pitifull £180 ish . Instead of doing the decent thing & giving pensioners the new rate they decided to means test the difference. This means people who took out private pensions were not entitled to the new rate if they had pension income. Government figures say pension credit is worth £3900. They paid into a private pension to be worse off. Disgusting.
@@stuartregan1627 thanks for that information, I wasn’t aware. As for the thieves in parliament who keep giving themselves annual pay raises, I have nothing but contempt for the lot of them .
I watched your video with the hope it would answer a question I have had for months. Sadly it doesn't. It is still confusing.
I took early retirement during covid so I know how much my contracted out pension/s is paying me. I know from the Gov gateway how much state pension I will draw in a couple of years. It says £961 per month because I have over 35 years NI payments.
The Gov Gateway also suggests I have a COPE of £49 per week.
I wanted to find out by how much my pensions would fall once I received State pension and thought it was this COPE amount, but all the notes I had read and your video indicates it a payment rather that a shortfall.
So sadly I am still confused.
Your state pension will not go down.
From the information in your post you are qualified to get the full state pension so it’s not going to reduce. The COPE amount does not get deducted from your state pension when you get to state pension age, it’s the amount estimated (and it’s overly generous) that you will be getting from your private pension.
In a couple of years assuming the triple lock stays in place your £961 will actually increase.
Similar issue 45 years NI £961 SP and £81 COPE I thought I was going to lose, retired 2020 so using DB pension and get SP December this year @66, might just leave DC pension to grow now. Great video, thank you.
If you take your pension at the end of the month and multi it by 12 which gives you the yearly amount, then divide it by 52 weeks ,you will find that the state pension is half the minimum wage , how are you ever going to be comfortable on that, after a life time of work.?
I opted out and was then told it ended in 2016 and what did l want to do about where to put the money. I believe that's what they were asking but unfortunately l never told them. When l queried it later at work, l was told that it went back into my pension but was never sure what pension, l believe they probably meant the state pension. l also have an LGPS pension. Fortunately l now get the full pension, as l have worked for more than 35 years in total. When l spoke to my brother he said that he got his LGPS and drew down the larger lump sum and then DWP sent him another lump sum from the Secondary Pension which l understood to be SERPS and this is what he believes, as they checked with him what he wanted to do with it. He asked for it in full and not too defer it. I queried this but l was told by my work place that they don't do that in England unlike Scotland they pay out. So I'm asking if l should still need due a lump sum from SERPS, l get the full pension anyway and what has happened to the SERPS money and should l be getting another lump sum from DWP?
so if my pension prediction page says ‘if you contribute for x more years you’ll get the full state pension’ that should be ok and not leave me worse off from having contracted out? I think overall it was more years than the 35 but will hit it in the end.
yes. Follow the link to see your COPE figure, if interested, for how much should be provided by your other pensions. But it doesn’t affect your State Pension.
Just have faith - a system this complicated MUST be good right ? It wouldn’t be over complicated to confuse people would it ??
I have 39 years of NI contributions, on the government website it says I'm entitles to £221.20 per week (full pension), my COPE is £22.50 as I was contracted out, does this mean that this amount would be taken off my state pension if I was taking the state pension now? Meaning I'd get £198.70? It's a little confusing.
You will get the full state pension amount as per the statemente, as each year of full NI contributions post 2016 will add 1/35 to your starting amount. You should also get the estimated £22.50 (COPE amount) from the scheme you contracted out to, although as the lady said this isn't guaranteed.
You’ve got the maximum 35 years in and get the full pension, you don’t get extra for the extra years.
I’m still confused by the contracted out stuff. I was contracted out. I have a DC scheme. My benefit statement at the top says the full state pension amount. It also mentions a COPE estimate of approx £60 per week. So does that mean my full state pension is reduced by the £60? Or do I get the headline £220ish amount?
Is Cope paid in addition to State Pension?
Your State Pension statement will show you how much additional State Pension you opted out of when you contracted out of the additional State Pension - your Contracted Out Pension Equivalent (COPE) amount. The COPE amount is paid as part of your private pension and not by the Government.
@@ChrisSmith-wz5ec So if I’m reading this right, gov will give me approx £160. And the private pension is expected to cover the COPE amount. I guess this won’t change even if I contribute more years. I guess the statement isn’t, IMO, exactly clear.
You get the full basic state pension @@ThePeteW
The £60 is the additional state pension you would have received had you not contracted out,
I same as you in amount. Still not sure how much I will get
I have paid in over 45 years. And still have a two year wait
I had the same problem and found out on retirement that I had to have 47 years N.i. because I'd paid less. It wasn't explained properly.
I have no idea what this COPE amount is, I know I have a COPE, my state pension says I need to work 1 more year to get maximum new state pension and this amount cannot be increased any further unless I delay taking my state pension which at 68 when I get to claim it will be a joke, should be 60 like everyone before me who got it back at that age previously. Born 1970 and get private pension next year as had to give up work to care for mom and dad as their only child back in 2021
My forecast is full state pension, but I don’t intend to work to state pension age.
My COPE amount is £44.
Do they assume working until 67 will wipe out any deductions?
If I retire at 60, will I not have wiped that out?
I've got 38 qualifying years and will be adding 5 more years, and was contracted out for 12 years.
If this leave me 4 years short it would be about £760 less than the full amount.
Could I ask a question please? I am due to get the new State Pension in 2030 at age 67. I finished working in 2023. I will be drawing an occupational pension scheme in 2024 (I will be 61). My current state pension forecast is £221.20 pw. Will this reduce over time as I am no longer working? I see a COPE amount of £62.13 pw which apparently will be paid by my occupational scheme.
Assuming the triple lock stays in place it will actually go up.
The £221.20 is what you would get now if you were of state pension age so whatever the state pension has risen to by the time you are 67 then thats what you will receive.
The COPE amount is an estimate by HMRC so its not reflective of what the actual pensioner provider will pay.
They will assume that you will make NI contributions untill your retirement date ,and , that could have an effect on your state pension if you don't have 35 years of contributions without any contracting out
I can see my pension forecast and my cope amount. What I can't see is a statement of how many extra years over 35 I would need to work to receive a full pension. Note I achieve 35 years of NI next year.
If its anything like me, for the 50 years i worked not a penny.
I’ve paid NI for 48 years so far and on my state pension page it says I will be getting £221.20 per week but says I was contracted out and when I go on that page it says cope estimate is £82.51 does this mean I need to deduct my cope from my estimated state pension so will get only approx £140 per week?
You would be getting the £221.20 per week (it’s actually paid every four weeks in arrears so thats 13 payments in a year) if you were to be retiring this year. Am guessing you have another two years to go to get state pension so you have to factor in the triple lock, so it will rise.
The COPE amount is an estimate so it’s not accurate. When you were contracted out that part of the NI should have been going into a private pension scheme which should appear as your protected rights.
Contracting out ended in April 2016 so everyone since then has at least 8 years full NI since then.
As you had 40 years prior to this date of paying NI, theoretically you could have been contracted out for 38 years (contracting out started in 1978).
My understanding is that the COPE amount £82.51 should be added to the basic state pension £169.50 which is £252.01.
Subtract the full state pension amount from that £252.01 - 221.20 = £30.81.
That £30.81 is the estimated amount you should be getting from your private pension per week. Again, it’s an estimated amount so not accurate and more than likely over generous.
My understanding of this may of course be wrong which hopefully Diane may be able to throw some light on?
@@DeeCee-nb6ev sorry I meant to put that in my post, I was contracted out for 12 years from 1986 to 1998. And thank you for your reply, I can breathe a little easier now. And yes I have2 more years to work.
@@nickcastings1568 I seem to remember as well that the forecast you are given is per month so thats 12 payments per year however when you actually claim your state pension (as i mention above) its actually paid every four weeks so thats 13 payments per year.
I cannot actually verify that (the forecast) now as i am receiving the state pension which is every four weeks.
From what i recall my forecast was also around £221 however when i claimed the pension it was actually a couple of pounds higher and payable very four weeks.
Perhaps you could check your forecast again and verify that the forecast is per month and not every four weeks.
Hi, The amount of state pension it says you will get on your forecast is what you will get. So if it says £221.20 per week, that’s the current full state pension amount. The COPE is an estimate of what you will get from wherever your contracted out contributions were going. But this is just an estimate and you have to find that pension yourself. DWP don’t manage this for you
@@DeeCee-nb6ev yes it is per month.
I have 42 years of full National Insurance contributions and I am still not going to get the full amount when I get to retiring age this July!! I have a further 6 years of contributions which weren't full. Nevertheless how is it that 42 years doesn't get me the full benefit?
Hi Tony, I'm sorry to hear this. If you haven't already, contact the Pension Service www.gov.uk/contact-pension-service
It could be related to your contributions prior to the introduction of the new state pension. Perhaps you were opted out of SERPs prior to 2016 in which case you might have the shortfall in another pension? I explain SERPs here
ruclips.net/video/YYi0vB1agn4/видео.html
Contacting the pension service should give you the specifics for you.
Hi, thank you so much for coming back to me. Yes I have spoken to the relevant department and it is owing to contracting out prior to 2016 although the explanation seemed very complicated. I do have the luxury of being invited to pay many hundreds of pounds to increase my state pension offer but I suppose I am just annoyed that after 42 years of full contributions plus 6 at a reduced amount I still have to add more!
Thank you again,
Tony.
by the time I retire in 2026 I would have paid 51 years NI. No extra for the additional years! But then I get some of us have to pay for those who’ve never contributed! I’m not sure what my state pension will be but whatever it will be will be lower than the minimum wage. Work til you drop
Not just pentions being affected we need to look at what there doing to the severely disabled and vunerable in society.
IFA financial coach?
I don’t think they can actually afford to pay the pathetic state pension.
This is the first time I have seen this explained.
I contracted out of SERPS in the 90s, then my employer was told the government was allowing people to contract back into SERPS & that this would not effect the state pension. I contacted the pension forecast department & they sent me a letter to say I would get £260 per week, I would received £290 per week if I did not contact out of SERPS.
I can get no information of how they arrived at the amount mentioned which means I can not check if I should receive more than the £260...anyone here know how to check how this amount us worked out?
The NI contributions you would have made had you not contracted out is the difference in the two sums.
How does it work for self employed?
I emigrated to Canada after paying 25 years of NI contributions. At the time, you only needed 30 full years, then the government increased that to 35 years. I paid 10 years of class 2 NI contributions thinking that would be enough to get full pension only to find out that I had been contracted out for the last 6 years. I have paid an extra 3 years and have another 3 years left. Also my pension will not increase year after year once i start claiming it as I am retiring in Canada.
I’m not retired yet, so very glad that I decided to opt out a long time ago and putting that money in a private pension instead, because I would’ve received nothing extra for not being opted out
Don't forget to deduct your cope amount from your state pension forecast figure as that will be the amount going into your bank account.
The cope amount has been put into your private pensions.
@@kevingreenwood6705 yes, just funny how I who paid £300/month NI opted out get less state pension than the person who paid £30/month NI not opted out. No wonder tax avoidance and preference to earn money elsewhere are so popular
Hi Dianne, fantastic content as always! I sent you an email regarding a potential brand enhancement. Hope you received it!
I dont have a clue on this,i wirked from age 15 till 64,i was in that time made redundant from 3jobs i think,left one driving job after a bad crash and the last job over disagreements,never once claiming any sort of benefit,i have one extra pension which i pay exorbitant tax on 40% i think,wish someone tell me why.
Labour withdrew 1 hundred billion out of the state pension during the Blair time. Brown also sold off half of our gold reserve, Mad..
Lol…tell me you have no idea about what you’re talking about, without telling me…🤣
Can someone please correct me if I am wrong. Question: if I have gaps in contributions, I can claim pension credits, correct? In which case I can claim council tax reduction/exemption, correct? What is the incentive of paying 1 or 2 years contributions gap?
Hi there, having gaps in your NI contributions doesn't mean that you will automatically get pension credits unfortunately. In simple general terms, you are assessed for eligibility for pension credits in a similar way that you are assessed for universal credit pre state pension age - in other words your other savings and income is taken into account.
Please consult DWP for a more detailed and personal response that applies to you.
I've made a video on this subject that might help ruclips.net/video/cNosIwHhY1A/видео.html
@@DianneSullivan thank you very helpful
I was advised to contract out now I'm retired I loose £50 a week from my state pension.
Yes have paid forty one years for my pension.
not sat on the social security all my life.
You pay people on the social security I know people that were on it until they died all free.
Boat people in they come free hand outs tax money from hard working people.
the system is broken.
I have all ready lost £23,400 because of increase to 67 years.
Exactly and they will add another year to make it 68. Plus it’s a lot more as you could get state pension at 60 so 8 years lost at £11,500 at todays money with increases bet it’s nearer to £100k missed out on I reckon by the time I eventually get the state pension. Robbing buggers
Why are comments that don't fit the narrative being hidden in new comments ? They dissappear from the top comments section. You censoring content ?
Nope. I’m only just browsing them now. Nothing to do with me I’m afraid. I’m not sure what you’re experiencing but could be the vagaries of the algorithm
@@DianneSullivan what I am experiencing is my comments appearing in top comments on my phone but disappearing when logged on with another device. If I made offensive comments I could fully understand my comments being removed but I am respectful & would never do that.
@@stuartregan1627It's u-tube thing I'm afraid.
I've had the same thing happen, but not on this channel.
I always check that my comment has loaded, especially if it's detailed. Blood annoying when it just disappears though.... 😡
@@stuartregan1627 Go to the top of the comments and change "sort by" from "top comments" to "newest". All the hidden-for-no-fkg-reason comments will appear, but you'll have to scroll thru. I don't know why YT does it this way, it's annoying asf.
@@PotBanginEejit yeah I know it appears in new comments but is hidden in the top comments. Very very strange . It's as if somebody does not want the comments to be seen as few people read new comments.
Does anyone actually factor in the state pension as part of their post retirement income anymore?
I would think most people factor in the state pension when they are looking at their retirement income. Some people only have the state pension.
Why wouldn’t you? At over £10k/year, it provides a guaranteed return equivalent to at least £250k of other assets. It’s very valuable!
It's worth around 300K so you would be pretty silly not to factor it in after paying for it for 40 years plus.
Those that don't should have paid more attention in maths, either way.
Worked 50 years in low paid labouring work, I'm not well educated or qualified at anything. But I'm a grafter and I deserve a decent state pension.
Pay in for just 35 Years for s full Stae Pension , but work a full 50 Years ......
Best way to get around all this is leave the country and change your nationality and name and religion and then come across in a boat you then get everything paid 😂.
The general public are so stupid. I don’t understand why people don’t know this stuff? People don’t take any responsibility for their own life decisions and then whine. Due diligence is too easy.
We should have the state pension begin at 60 and end at 75. Then its up to you beyond that point.
I would rather have all my contributions back and then fend for myself
@@jasonaris5316 Not going to happen because the state pension is a big Ponzi scheme.
Disagree with you it's the latter years of life that you need state pension and the access that gives you to additional support benefits.
@@jasonaris5316 There are no contributions to give you back, the state pension is just a big ponzi scheme.
@@mrright8794the state pension does not give you access to other benefits, only pension Credit gives you access to other benefits.
Scrap it , privatise the nhs and benefits…first 30k tax free put vat of 5% on food you work you provide for yourself …
Some have contracted out and got more.
That's me. 🥱
I get an additional £9 every four weeks, over the full state pension, plus £50k contracted out contributions in my private pension (when I last looked a couple of years ago.)
Just luck on my part ..... 😳