Knowing the Tiger has a solid axel housing my first test would have been to check the alignment of the rear. If it said 0 toe I’d know it was good to go.
Their tests indicate + - .02 degrees compared to industry standard of .05 degrees. I would trust this much more than the janky bubble devices that are available to hobbyists.
Looks like an interesting tool for DIY work. Something I noticed is you didn't utilize a slip plate over your front wheels. Turning the wheels back and forth while stationary will cause the suspension bushings to bind a small amount and not give you dead accurate angles. A super easy DIY slip plate set up is to have a stack of waxy paper sheets (like junk mail) under your tires.
I have the plates but those slick tires on a powered coated surface added with the higher angle of of turning and it being an old car make them unnecessary.
I just stumbled onto your channel here.. That car is sharp!! That's coming from an Ford Mustang guy... The tool does look slick.. Though like a few have commented already, we'd need to see a car, getting a full thrust alignment at a known reputable alignment shop, preferably one who's cooperating with this endeavor as well. Then with those numbers in hand for comparison, do the Pepsi challenge with this product... I'll be reasonable, and concede it would be somewhat, just due to where we as the enthusiasts would be doing our testing in our garages and driveways. The outcomes will be dictated by amount of effort expended by each user to get the car level both side to side as well front to back. Lastly, if not an actual mini turntable for each front tire, some bullshit facimile, like two pieces of cardboard or the like.. The gauntlet has been thrown down here.. I am one car guy, with three old Fords, and many friends with more cars than me, and love to tinker.. So gauntlet has been thrown down here... I subscribed, so I'll be watching......
The first thing that stood out to me was that the green diamond on the toe mode doesn't match with the lines of the other modes, giving the impression that the features were developed by different companies. Additionally, I found it difficult to maintain a secure grip and reach the necessary buttons at times. Placing the buttons within easy thumb reach from the most natural holding position could make it more user-friendly.
Extremely interesting Steve, thank you very much for posting. I was getting ready to get a Longacre alignment tool, but will look closely at this. Question: apparently this system doesn't require turntables for setting the caster, to turn the wheels a certain number of degrees?
Correct, the phone knows exactly how far the wheel is turned and can work out the math. I think this is also what makes it more accurate, because it is calculating over a longer range.
Turnplates will make it more accurate, but that applies to any alignment method. Without turnplates there will be wind up in the rubber components. But it will get you pretty close. As a budget hack, stick a plastic bin liner or similar under the wheels to reduce friction.
Wow!! so useful! the tape measure and pins method I use for Toe must go away, now if only I had an application for remembering which way to rotate tie rods on which side to do what, yessss.
Awesome glad to hear this was bought with your own money for once 😊❤ I’ve been eyeing this tool myself but I’m a little iffy about being able to use it on my car since my current wheels don’t have an inner lip or an edge that is protruding slightly for the nubs of the tool to properly butt up against to take the readings. I just feel like I won’t Have a decent point of reference and can’t make repeatable results ?
You point of repeatable results, that is what the levels on the phone are for, it assures that even if it is not in exactly the same place it aligned in a way to get an accurate reading. That is why I showed at some point that I got the same reading whether I measured on the front of the wheel or the rear of the wheel.
YES, this is a very important part of an alignment and also the hardest to get correct. the toe, camber, and caster are all very simple to figure out with a few simple tools, the thrust angle is a bit more complicated to get perfected
@@ThisWeekWithCars I don’t think it does. That body alignment feature is not the same as thrust angle. But pretty sure they can do it. Just needs some work to add it.
What about measuring thrust angles, centering the steering wheel, wheel runout, axle offsets, does it compensate for staggered wheel fitments? Would need to see actual full four wheel alignment performed with the tool then the vehicle taken to an actual alignment shop that knows what they are doing for a comparison. I want really this tool to actually work but need the data proving it.
The front wheel alignment needs to be based on the rear axle; otherwise, you have four tire tracks on the road while going straight. Also, how do you compensate for wheel deformations and rust on the brake rotors and hubs?
I wouldnt trust it. Seems like its relying on the accelerometer in the phone, which should experience a bit of drift over time. That means the zero point isnt consistent, and the measuremens would be out particularly if you took a long time between measurements/rotated the phone a lot. Or is there something i dont know?
I had the timer off but if you do the alignment quickly and when you come back to the first wheel it takes the drift into account because it can compare the two measurements, the first and the last. It has a timer feature in the upper corner you can activate to make sure that you have done it in enough time to account for the drift.
Any alignment is only as good a the person doing it, even an oldie should have rear end checked, good chance a solid axle can be either bent or out in relation to centre line. You should have turntables under front when doing Caster sweep.
I was a Jaguar dealership mechanic and ever since I left for a new career, I've badly missed having access to an alignment rack. I hate paying other people to do my alignments! I think I'm going to order one of these and give the software a try. Thanks!
I’ve had 3 bad experiences in a row getting my alignment done on my mustang, the last one almost got me dead, as they had my tie rod end only on by 2 threads.. Luckily it was squeaking from movement so I fixed it and aligned the car myself..
If you really do a lot of autocrossing, you need a lot more negative camber. 1/4 inch toe out is fine but you should try for at least 2 degrees camber if you can get the sane amount from both sides.
I want to see it compared to a proper aligner, one properly maintained with a competent operator. The lack of runout compensation is a big issue for my applications.
These guys on here yiping about thrust angle read too many comic books😂 Thrust angle on a solid rear axle car is determined by how square the rear axle is mounted on the frame rails. Most people are not going to cut/reweld mount brackets to perfectly sguare the axle, so it is what it is. When total toe is set to what you want, road test, lf steering wheel is off center, adjust tie rod sleeves on each side to bring wheel to center. I would use turn tables under wheels so suspension is not binding when turning for caster measurement. Also you need to know how many degrees your turning the wheels during this measurement. Nice quick check tool, in my mind not a replacement for traditional measuring methods. I know there will be "experts" chiming in, I've been a shop owner mechanic for over 45 yrs. for what ever that's worth 😂
Also I don't know if they realize on an old car you just take the steering wheel off and clock it back to being center, you don't need to take the steering wheel into account when doing your alignment because the wheel can be put on anyway you want it to be.
If the graphic representation of the wheels displaying the Ackermann angle was correct (vehicle turning right) then the vehicle has been screwed up by someone, the inside wheel should turn a greater angle than the outside, the only way this could occur is by moving the steering rack behind the axle line, swopping the hubs side to side and keeping the same steering arms on the hubs. Or as he implies the Rootes designers screwed up shoehorning in the V8 engine and had to relocate the steering rack, it would scrub tyres like crazy.
@@murraykilpatrick3029 Bend them or if they bolt on get them from another vehicle from the same manufacturer which has the correct wheelbase, moving the steering rack ahead of the axle line means the track rod ends either hit or run very close to the brake disc which can melt the gaiters. I fitted the front hubs from an HA Viva to an HB Viva because they had disc brakes, the inside wheel turned almost sideways on in tight corners, Midget racers used to do this to hold a tighter cornering line on loose gravel oval tracks.
@JR-o7d as I said anyone who knows the Sunbeam Tiger knows how bad it is. There has been much written about the dreaded Ackerman Angle Problem on the Tiger. Simply put, if you turn left, then the inside wheel, the left wheel, is suppose to have a smaller turning radius than the outside, or right wheel. On the Tiger, the turning radius were reversed, i.e. the inside wheel had a larger turning radius (26 degrees & 5 minutes), that the outside wheel (30 degrees & 15 minutes), at full lock. www.tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickAckerman/pt-PaulickAckerman1.asp
@JR-o7d here is an article on what some people are doing to try to fix the Sunbeam Tiger, the problem wasn't that they moved the steering rack to fit the V8, they actually went from a recirculating ball steering box to a steering rack and then reversed the steering arms without changing any of the geometry causing the Ackerman problem. www.teae.org/g11-dealing-with-the-tigers-front-suspension/
How about front wheel straight line tracking with respect the rear wheels, I saw something on their web site about taking a measurement off the body of the car, but to me that seems rather inaccurate. On my 73 TR6 the original rack had different thread counts for the tie rod ends making one side ~1/2 inch shorter, the instructions in the Bentley manual say that the length of both tire rod ends should be the same so that when adjusting evenly on both sides the geometry of the steering is consistent for both sides.
Gyraline has two modes for toe: Thrust align and Body align. Thrust align does exactly what you are suggesting - comparing the average rear total toe vector to the front wheel average vector to get (and correct) the steering wheel offset!
I had to interrupt my breakfast to write this comment.. IF you have non-flat wheels (off design, no lip, fat lip), you're screwed. IF you have a phone that is NOT flat (cameras sticking out of case) then it won't lay flat inside this case. IF you don't have turn table bases under your wheels, you won't get accurate readings. So, i still use alignment plates and they work out great and for $140, you can get lifetime alignment at most mainstream tire shops like Tire Kingdom and the the rest..
This holder is designed that the cameras and also the buttons on the side of the phone do not interfere, you would have to see it in person but that was all designed into it.
Not any different than the tools you already use in your garage or at the race track. Nobody at the race track has a laser alignment machine to make changes.
No, I'm sorry. Caster / camber math is pretty simple, and all you really need is an accurate angle indicator, which, nowadays, you can buy almost anywhere. I am 76 and 2 years ago converted my 01 Cummins Ram to 4WD. I use an old Ammco caster / camber bubble gauge sometimes, or if cannot fit it up, a digi angle indicator. This is not that hard.
I am not very impressed. It does not repeat in my experience. This means you can measure the same alignment twice, three times, or more, and get different results each time. iPhone 16 Pro Max.
Great to see a Rootes Group Car on your channel Steve. The Sunbeam Tiger is a treat for the eyes 😊
The thing’s cool and all, yet without a comparison to an actual laser alignment machine, these are just numbers. Would like to see a side by side.
Like I said that info is on their website, this is a video about how to use it. Here is some of their comparisons gyraline.com/pages/study1
Lazer was invented in 50s .. Lazer in alignment mainstream till mid 90s ..
Old school guys didn't need to no stinky Lazer or phone
Knowing the Tiger has a solid axel housing my first test would have been to check the alignment of the rear. If it said 0 toe I’d know it was good to go.
@@tonypires8816 agreed, that would be a great test I bet!
Their tests indicate + - .02 degrees compared to industry standard of .05 degrees. I would trust this much more than the janky bubble devices that are available to hobbyists.
Just got mine in the mail and plan on trying it out tomorrow on my 72 Celica. Thanks for the demo!
Looks like an interesting tool for DIY work. Something I noticed is you didn't utilize a slip plate over your front wheels. Turning the wheels back and forth while stationary will cause the suspension bushings to bind a small amount and not give you dead accurate angles. A super easy DIY slip plate set up is to have a stack of waxy paper sheets (like junk mail) under your tires.
I have the plates but those slick tires on a powered coated surface added with the higher angle of of turning and it being an old car make them unnecessary.
An Interesting piece of kit and very well explained Steve. Thank you for the post. 👍👍
I just ordered this after watching your video!
holy f*** balls, this is a major game changer for grass root track guys of all kinds
For sure I am not going to the track without it.
Did you check it with a regular toe in bar? Thanks in advance
I just stumbled onto your channel here.. That car is sharp!! That's coming from an Ford Mustang guy...
The tool does look slick.. Though like a few have commented already, we'd need to see a car, getting a full thrust alignment at a known reputable alignment shop, preferably one who's cooperating with this endeavor as well. Then with those numbers in hand for comparison, do the Pepsi challenge with this product... I'll be reasonable, and concede it would be somewhat, just due to where we as the enthusiasts would be doing our testing in our garages and driveways. The outcomes will be dictated by amount of effort expended by each user to get the car level both side to side as well front to back. Lastly, if not an actual mini turntable for each front tire, some bullshit facimile, like two pieces of cardboard or the like.. The gauntlet has been thrown down here.. I am one car guy, with three old Fords, and many friends with more cars than me, and love to tinker.. So gauntlet has been thrown down here... I subscribed, so I'll be watching......
Absolutely stellar car and a great overview of the system Steve! Do you have any recommendations for us to make the software better for you?
The first thing that stood out to me was that the green diamond on the toe mode doesn't match with the lines of the other modes, giving the impression that the features were developed by different companies.
Additionally, I found it difficult to maintain a secure grip and reach the necessary buttons at times. Placing the buttons within easy thumb reach from the most natural holding position could make it more user-friendly.
@@ThisWeekWithCars Thank you for the feedback, it really means a lot. We'll work on these for future updates!
How did the measurements compare to an alignment machine or race metric methodologies?? That is the acid test
My nephew autocross’s his v6 swapped MR2, I think I just found the perfect Christmas gift, thank you!!!
Extremely interesting Steve, thank you very much for posting. I was getting ready to get a Longacre alignment tool, but will look closely at this. Question: apparently this system doesn't require turntables for setting the caster, to turn the wheels a certain number of degrees?
Correct, the phone knows exactly how far the wheel is turned and can work out the math. I think this is also what makes it more accurate, because it is calculating over a longer range.
Correct, Gyraline calculates caster based off of the steered angles you choose. We were tired of the 20 degree limitation!
Turnplates will make it more accurate, but that applies to any alignment method. Without turnplates there will be wind up in the rubber components. But it will get you pretty close. As a budget hack, stick a plastic bin liner or similar under the wheels to reduce friction.
Wow!! so useful! the tape measure and pins method I use for Toe must go away, now if only I had an application for remembering which way to rotate tie rods on which side to do what, yessss.
Awesome glad to hear this was bought with your own money for once 😊❤
I’ve been eyeing this tool myself but I’m a little iffy about being able to use it on my car since my current wheels don’t have an inner lip or an edge that is protruding slightly for the nubs of the tool to properly butt up against to take the readings. I just feel like I won’t Have a decent point of reference and can’t make repeatable results ?
You point of repeatable results, that is what the levels on the phone are for, it assures that even if it is not in exactly the same place it aligned in a way to get an accurate reading. That is why I showed at some point that I got the same reading whether I measured on the front of the wheel or the rear of the wheel.
Love the Sunbeam, I had 2 a 67 and a 63
Really impressive. But you also need thrust angle to ensure a good alignment. Hopefully they add this to the features.
YES, this is a very important part of an alignment and also the hardest to get correct.
the toe, camber, and caster are all very simple to figure out with a few simple tools, the thrust angle is a bit more complicated to get perfected
This tool also does that.
@@ThisWeekWithCars ok cool, good to know. i must have missed that part... thanks for the demo!
@@ThisWeekWithCars I don’t think it does. That body alignment feature is not the same as thrust angle. But pretty sure they can do it. Just needs some work to add it.
What about measuring thrust angles, centering the steering wheel, wheel runout, axle offsets, does it compensate for staggered wheel fitments? Would need to see actual full four wheel alignment performed with the tool then the vehicle taken to an actual alignment shop that knows what they are doing for a comparison. I want really this tool to actually work but need the data proving it.
The front wheel alignment needs to be based on the rear axle; otherwise, you have four tire tracks on the road while going straight. Also, how do you compensate for wheel deformations and rust on the brake rotors and hubs?
After using this tool it would be nice to see the actual adjustments being done.
That would be a different procedure on different cars. Most old cars toe is the only thing that is adjustable.
I wouldnt trust it. Seems like its relying on the accelerometer in the phone, which should experience a bit of drift over time. That means the zero point isnt consistent, and the measuremens would be out particularly if you took a long time between measurements/rotated the phone a lot. Or is there something i dont know?
I had the timer off but if you do the alignment quickly and when you come back to the first wheel it takes the drift into account because it can compare the two measurements, the first and the last. It has a timer feature in the upper corner you can activate to make sure that you have done it in enough time to account for the drift.
Not sponsored but they'd be wise think about it and soon! Good find!
They are probably a very small company that has no budget for it.
Any alignment is only as good a the person doing it, even an oldie should have rear end checked, good chance a solid axle can be either bent or out in relation to centre line. You should have turntables under front when doing Caster sweep.
I'd also do the rear just to make sure the thing actually works
Turntables would be nice, but the other thing that would work is to lay out a plastic trashbag under each front wheel for the caster sweep!
I was a Jaguar dealership mechanic and ever since I left for a new career, I've badly missed having access to an alignment rack. I hate paying other people to do my alignments! I think I'm going to order one of these and give the software a try. Thanks!
I’ve had 3 bad experiences in a row getting my alignment done on my mustang, the last one almost got me dead, as they had my tie rod end only on by 2 threads.. Luckily it was squeaking from movement so I fixed it and aligned the car myself..
If you really do a lot of autocrossing, you need a lot more negative camber. 1/4 inch toe out is fine but you should try for at least 2 degrees camber if you can get the sane amount from both sides.
Great vid! Keep em coming.
Great video thanks for sharing
I want to see it compared to a proper aligner, one properly maintained with a competent operator.
The lack of runout compensation is a big issue for my applications.
I have one and it does not repeat. It will get you close, but you can re-measure without moving anything and will get different results.
How did the measurements compare to an alignment machine or race metric methodologies?? That is the acid test
These guys on here yiping about thrust angle read too many comic books😂 Thrust angle on a solid rear axle car is determined by how square the rear axle is mounted on the frame rails. Most people are not going to cut/reweld mount brackets to perfectly sguare the axle, so it is what it is. When total toe is set to what you want, road test, lf steering wheel is off center, adjust tie rod sleeves on each side to bring wheel to center. I would use turn tables under wheels so suspension is not binding when turning for caster measurement. Also you need to know how many degrees your turning the wheels during this measurement. Nice quick check tool, in my mind not a replacement for traditional measuring methods. I know there will be "experts" chiming in, I've been a shop owner mechanic for over 45 yrs. for what ever that's worth 😂
Also I don't know if they realize on an old car you just take the steering wheel off and clock it back to being center, you don't need to take the steering wheel into account when doing your alignment because the wheel can be put on anyway you want it to be.
Great video!
What about thrust angle?
It does that as well.
I can just say: WOW
If the graphic representation of the wheels displaying the Ackermann angle was correct (vehicle turning right) then the vehicle has been screwed up by someone, the inside wheel should turn a greater angle than the outside, the only way this could occur is by moving the steering rack behind the axle line, swopping the hubs side to side and keeping the same steering arms on the hubs.
Or as he implies the Rootes designers screwed up shoehorning in the V8 engine and had to relocate the steering rack, it would scrub tyres like crazy.
Yes you are correct.
Also, I'm not sure how anybody goes about adjusting the Akerman angle, unless they, bend the steering arms or somehow space them?
@@murraykilpatrick3029 Bend them or if they bolt on get them from another vehicle from the same manufacturer which has the correct wheelbase, moving the steering rack ahead of the axle line means the track rod ends either hit or run very close to the brake disc which can melt the gaiters. I fitted the front hubs from an HA Viva to an HB Viva because they had disc brakes, the inside wheel turned almost sideways on in tight corners, Midget racers used to do this to hold a tighter cornering line on loose gravel oval tracks.
@JR-o7d as I said anyone who knows the Sunbeam Tiger knows how bad it is.
There has been much written about the dreaded Ackerman Angle Problem on the Tiger. Simply put, if you turn left, then the inside wheel, the left wheel, is suppose to have a smaller turning radius than the outside, or right wheel. On the Tiger, the turning radius were reversed, i.e. the inside wheel had a larger turning radius (26 degrees & 5 minutes), that the outside wheel (30 degrees & 15 minutes), at full lock.
www.tigersunited.com/techtips/PaulickAckerman/pt-PaulickAckerman1.asp
@JR-o7d here is an article on what some people are doing to try to fix the Sunbeam Tiger, the problem wasn't that they moved the steering rack to fit the V8, they actually went from a recirculating ball steering box to a steering rack and then reversed the steering arms without changing any of the geometry causing the Ackerman problem. www.teae.org/g11-dealing-with-the-tigers-front-suspension/
Remarkable
Great stuff thanks.
How about front wheel straight line tracking with respect the rear wheels, I saw something on their web site about taking a measurement off the body of the car, but to me that seems rather inaccurate. On my 73 TR6 the original rack had different thread counts for the tie rod ends making one side ~1/2 inch shorter, the instructions in the Bentley manual say that the length of both tire rod ends should be the same so that when adjusting evenly on both sides the geometry of the steering is consistent for both sides.
Gyraline has two modes for toe: Thrust align and Body align. Thrust align does exactly what you are suggesting - comparing the average rear total toe vector to the front wheel average vector to get (and correct) the steering wheel offset!
Wow sold
I had to interrupt my breakfast to write this comment.. IF you have non-flat wheels (off design, no lip, fat lip), you're screwed. IF you have a phone that is NOT flat (cameras sticking out of case) then it won't lay flat inside this case. IF you don't have turn table bases under your wheels, you won't get accurate readings.
So, i still use alignment plates and they work out great and for $140, you can get lifetime alignment at most mainstream tire shops like Tire Kingdom and the the rest..
This holder is designed that the cameras and also the buttons on the side of the phone do not interfere, you would have to see it in person but that was all designed into it.
I've seen this product before and now you've sold me on it, but I don't own an iphone.
There is an Android version, they suggest downloading it to your phone before buying to see if it will work with your phone.
You can't use that thing to make real time adjustments (maybe with a helper). You're going to spend quite a while with trial and error.
Not any different than the tools you already use in your garage or at the race track. Nobody at the race track has a laser alignment machine to make changes.
No, I'm sorry. Caster / camber math is pretty simple, and all you really need is an accurate angle indicator, which, nowadays, you can buy almost anywhere. I am 76 and 2 years ago converted my 01 Cummins Ram to 4WD. I use an old Ammco caster / camber bubble gauge sometimes, or if cannot fit it up, a digi angle indicator. This is not that hard.
Sold me. GYRA10OFF for 10% off. Came to $125.98 shipped.
No turn tables no skid plates no good lol
A cellphone and a piece of string is cheaper...
I am not very impressed. It does not repeat in my experience. This means you can measure the same alignment twice, three times, or more, and get different results each time. iPhone 16 Pro Max.
sucks that you gotta have an iphone
Android version is in beta and coming out soon