I'd like to buy Peter Oborne a new shirt. I'm so impressed he's not just changed his mind but being so public about it. Fantastic honesty or the sort we rarely see in public life.
The world has changed in those 2 years. Negotiating trade deals with the US will likely result in a bad outcome for us. Brexit is utter garbage and will cause real damage economically. Particularly manufacturing and the agrifood industries.
Get the fool another belt whilst your at the shops. This debacle shows the EU up for what it is. All over Europe people have had enough of the Brussels dictatorship.
Amazing reading the comments to this post. So many Brexit supporters who in the past would have worshipped the ground Oborne walked on, now reduced to desperately discrediting him. Brexiteers are like a cult religion where no one is allowed to admit the truth and as soon as one of their own comes out and says "we are being asked to drink poisoned kool-aid" the entire cult will mindlessly gang up on the individual.
You mean, he is claiming that he was duped like a naïve innocent child by those wicked Brexiteers? What value does that put on his present opinion? Has he suddenly become a shrewd dude, or is he just sucking up Project Fear?
“We haven’t had Brexit yet.” So the lady’s point is “let’s get out first, then we figure out what kind of trade deal and other arrangements are.” Great, such a responsible way to decide a nation’s fortune.
'Brexit hasn't happened yet' seems to be a new mantra for brexit's mouthpieces. They think it gets them off the hook for anything bad that happens (despite claiming that nothing bad has happened). They do not grasp the idea that businesses plan ahead and have to plan on the basis of future expectations - probably because they clearly prefer wishful thinking to planning.
@@forenamesurname6147 The eu a vehicle for Germany and on the back of the dead in 2 world wars you idiots are quite happy to have your lives controlled by diktat from the eu commission the equivalent of the soviet politburo shameful
Lady on google Well, I would blame David Cameron first. Such complicated issue shouldn’t have been decided through a referendum in the first place. That’s politicians’ job. Not to mention that people can only choose between yes and no. The reality has shown that the EU problem is not a simple yes or no problem. Among the leaving folks, they can’t even agree what leave means. If everyone were no deal brexiters like you, you would have left already.
It could be also argued that we are in a mess because of David Cameron calling a referendum and 17.4 million voting to leave. Those 17.4 m do not represent a single unchanging viewpoint for a single utopian view of Brexit and in all likelihood, very few of them had even heard of what WTO is. There is not even consensus of what Brexit even should look like. It is one thing to leave but where are you going to or heading towards...So, in the end, the 17.4 million that is often quoted by the more extreme of the Brexiteers as if that figure does represent a consensus viewpoint is quite clearly false. Interestingly also in the US, a constitutional change of this magnitude would require a 2/3rds majority.
@@Jack-fs2im Oh so easy to refute...first of all, we pay 12b (?) to be a member of a club, therefore paying NO TARIFFS while trading with the EU (that alone is worth muchg more than the 12b...add to that the massive amount of great deals with third party countries due to EU market power and the overall benefits of being part of the greatest peace project on earth....), in the trade with the US, we do pay those tariffs, making the trading much more expensive....the WTO also has tariffs, making it more expensive as well.....sooo where the f* are you going at?
Lliad89 £12b is a tariff.Please supply evidence for yr claims that the WTO tariffs are more .Most of the things you have are made outside the EU and have a tariff added by the EU.This means as Germany is the EU biggest manufacturer it favours them.As I said please supply evidence for yr claims
I like it how she's repeatedly saying that 17.4 million have not changed their mind - as if she asked each and every one of them, including the ~700,000 dead people who, when they were still alive, voted "leave".
Omer You do of course apply that logic to the constituents who voted the current shower into Government or even Cameron's lot . And using your gift of prescience you would know the wishes of the yet unborn when they reach voting age looking back at the EU's version of democracy that the majority of their ancestors struggled against and wonder why, in the youtube archive Omer Shomrat not only got the numbers wrong but would consider publishing such a dimwitted statement. Or Maybe you are not taking into account those that were to young to vote in the referendum to join the common market getting a chance to right the wrongs of those that were lied to then 40 odd years ago. After all,now we have experienced the EU's shenanigans we are all a bit wiser.
Omer Shomrat - as you get older you get wiser (a fact) that is why more older voters voted to leave. Remain voters are naive and romantic - as they get older they sensibly become Leave voters and so the numbers remain the same. Of course there are many young leave voters but they are less hitched up to romantic notions such as being in service to a foreign power. Remoaners have a slave mentality.
@Michael McCullagh I was actually referring to Melissa Kite. Something which proves that not all remainers are as clever as they would like to think :)
@@Jack-fs2im a) there has always been a border, the difference is how it is treated with respect to the movement of goods and people before and after EU membership b) whatever Varadkar says it is _not_ in his gift to make these promises. The EU stipulates what happens at borders with external nations and, no matter what Leo wants, Eire will have to abide by EU ruling(s) on how the current arrangements are affected by whatever constitutes the outcome of this shabby process. I think most, if not all, can agree (regardless of which side of the argument they sit) the British parliament have shown tremendous ineptitude in this matter, which just makes some wonder why anyone in Britain would want to hand their future to that body.
Eric T Watson the question is “A Hard border” and Varadker has said it will only be in country checks and this has a precedent within the EU with Norway and Sweden so the EU policy is No Hard Border.Also Ireland had a different corporation tax which is not compliant with the EU.So Varadker can do what he says
@@Jack-fs2im is leaving going to be in a manner that mimics the Norway arrangement with the EU? What else does your crystal ball say? To be honest a friction free outcome would be ideal but, until the details are agreed no-one can say what will occur or even be possible.
@andrew chambers I mean no disrespect, but what does Brexit actually mean? And was that definition clearly delineated before the ref vote? That, to me, is the problem now. You are relying on "too many chefs" to answer the question, with potential varied outcomes. If 2nd vote is floated, or any other referendum for that matter, line item points on vote would help.
Lol. Trying to use your brains, even though it might be late or- due to lack of practise- a bit awkward, that´s not the Kipper´s way. You see what you get for even thinking that´s within their grasp...
@@blackphilip8936 Can't run it in. They were honestly lied to and it wasn't fair that they are now being victimized again. We have to show we forgive them because the unity of the country is all that matters. The ones we don't forgive and deserve good swift kick are Cameron, Mogg, Fromage and Johnson. They should all be exiled to Cameron's yacht and be forced to circumnavigate the world for 3 years together. Teach them fuckers a lesson.
Maybe he was 52% for brexit and 48% against, a small shift in opinion can flip him over to 'the dark side'. What makes you think that someone is 100% leaver or 100% remainer? That a total change of mindset, personality, philosophy, is needed to change opinion? Wrong? You say... Probably he made up the balance and thought at that time, weighing all fors and againsts that it might be wise to leave..., seeing all the consequences the balance shifted towards, maybe we would better stay in. It is not a complete shift from red to blue, but a slight change in purple.
@@forenamesurname6147 You has been complacent really you has no functioning government in the 6 counties and no one seems to say anything I'm very surprised ! Peace
@Lady on google beter together was the campaign slogan if i remember correctly but i find myself asking if that is correct for the UK why is it not correct for the EU
James, do you know that the treaty of Lisbon gives the EU total control of all our forces plus our oil revenue plus our tax policy : fishing grounds: EVERYTHING !! why do you want to give your country away ??
Hardly a case of repenteth the sinner.He doesn't look as if he is wrestling with his conscience and seeing the 'error of his ways' for having promoted something that he no longer believes in.I think Tony Blair is more of a 'Brexiteer'than Oborne purports to be.Sorry i don't buy it.A bit like Sarah Wollaston during the referendum campaign,why are these leave/remain change-overs given such media prominence? Sincere in their beliefs....i believe not imho.
@andrew chambers ...I guess your eyes are sharp enough to even see the emperors new clothes? Tell me, how do you see he `s been paid off? Does he have Dollar signs in his eyes that only you and your little thumbs-up-crew can see?
Melissa doesn't understand that if you have signed a contract with your biggest trading partner (more than 60 percent) and then want to change that contract, that will come at a price. Apparently very hard for some the British to get this logic!!
Less than 10% GDP. All our trade suffers EU Tariffs and conditions. This is why no deal is best . The EU has de-industrialized Britain, France, Italy and Spain and is doing the same to the Netherlands, Poland and Hungary Whilst creaming customs union taxes from European citizens on goods from outside the EU and controlling investment in each and every European Nation to the benefit of the expanding EU gravy train. Unemployment has increased in Europe over the last 20 years and the poverty gap has grown larger. Germany is also now feeling the pinch owing to a stagnation of incomes and rising property prices. The experiment has failed.
@@mirjamok8116 Easy 90% of our trade is with the rest of the world but we have to export using EU trade rules, Customs Union and EU tariffs Only about 10% Of our income, GDP, comes from selling to Europeans. Look it up. Actually GDP is a red herring it was bought in after ww2 as part of the marshal plan as a guide to meter the recovery of Nations after a war so that the American post war rescue of the European economies didn't flounder. It doesn't take into account the movement of people and the resultant suppression of income, the contentedness of a population, banking service fluctuations, property expansion or the eradication of core industries or political upheaval, It's based on theories that are almost a hundred years old. Yet it's used world wide to monitor the success of every nation.
"We didn't have it, so we don't know what's going to happen..." True. But I don't have to gouge out my eyes first in order to KNOW it would blind me. Trail & error is ok, as long as you can go back. Not the case with Brexit.
Experts were able to estimate what the consequences of different kinds of Brexit would be, but many people chose to ignore the experts because their expert testimony didn't support the outcome they wanted. Apart from 1 or 2 large scale choices the outcome of the negotiations was never going to differ by very much from what was expected. But now those choices have been made and negotiations have been completed it's time to let the public vote on whether they like the reality of Brexit rather than the fantasy they were offered in 2016.
Hans Kuijsten - typical negative Remoaner approach to the issue - Remoaners couch everything in disaster scenarios - they are negative people and more comfortable in servitude than as master - they have a slave mentality.
Adrian Thoroughgood ridiculous. How do we know that our economy wouldn’t have been much more successful had we not joined the EEC in the first place? What difference would £500 billion invested into our infrastructure have made instead of being sent to Brussels? The UK will prosper outside the EU as a matter of Certainty - the only thing holding us back is a duplicitous parliament and frightened remainers.
@@frze5645 A lot less than the £1 trillion in tax revenue the government has only had to spend because passporting and EU open skies amongst others allow those companies to do buisness in the EU while paying their taxes and employing their workers in the UK. This is all money those companies could only ever have earned by setting up a subsidiary abroad and paying all their taxes and salaries over there without the EU, I am not even factoring in trade that is only competitive because of the lack of tariffs this is just the money that would be legally impossible for the UK to earn without EU membership which is currently standing at around £100 billion per year. Fact is that while the UK economy makes much much more than the cost of membership out of it the UK government also makes around 200% of the membership fee in tax revenue based on a conservative estimate. Granted tory governments usually don't invest this money in infrastructure as wealthy supporters need to be paid off with pork barrel projects but the profit is there and without it there would have been less money for investment in the UK as you can be damn sure investment would be cut before pork barrel projects.
@Wat ching u As someone who voted leave and has since changed their mind, she no longer represents me. And surveys and polls since the Brexit vote suggest many others are the same. 17.4 million is an outdated number.
There were two petitions presented to Parliament. One to revoke Article 50. It had in excess of 6 million signatures. The 2nd, for a no deal Brexit had just over 100,000 signatures.
@Wat ching u She literally said "Every single Brexit voter is saying 'no deal'", twice. She hasn't talked to every Brexit voter, nor has anyone else, so that is by definition a lie. For further inquiries I'd refer you to her face, which has "I'M LYING" written all over it.
@Wat ching u She says it twice in a row on 4:00. In addition, she says she hasn't heard a single person say they've changed their mind from Brexit to remain, even though she's standing right next to one such person, and he certainly isn't the first on this very channel. She's either lying, or she has a very unbalanced news diet. So ionically, she does speak for many Brexit voters indeed.
@Wat ching u Sure, sure. First deny she said it in the first place, then say she didn't mean it that way. Like how Johnson didn't mean you'd save 350m pounds per week, right? You're following the trend of religiously believing lying politicians and pundits, and performing mental gymnastics to feel like you're consistent. Whatevs, you'll be hurt more by it than I will 🇳🇱🇪🇺
Exactly , they obviously paid this clown off, yet all the remoaner tards will clutch to this as "OH MY GOD, THE LEAVERS HAVE CHANGED THEIR MINDS , HOLD ANOTHER REFERENDUM" You people are a fucking joke ahahaha
Bit like the leave campaign that was a complete pack of lies from start to finish !! I mean driving a bus around the country promising 350 million to the NHS. To many lies @@Jack-fs2im That's the problem mate.
The will of the people NOW is more important than the will of the people 3 years ago. A vote by definition cannot be undemocratic. If you are against a 2nd referendum it is YOU who are against the will of the people. It is YOU who are against democracy.
@Lady on google brexiteer gibberish... It is absolutely clear that in the light of the facts, some people will want to vote differently. The 2nd referendum should not be a simple choice between leave or remain, but should force the public to vote between several options including revoking Art50.
Lady on google if you want to start campaigning for a 3rd referendum then you are very welcome to do so. Maybe by the time we get around to having it brexiteers will have formed an actual plan. But after this debacle and now that people have witnessed reality of leaving no politician worth his salt will be marching back into this quagmire. So no, it won’t be best of 5, 7, 11.
@Lady on google well, one can't just have one single vote and ignore every bit of information that comes after either. It is, of course true, that repeating the exact same vote - much like May's deal - is pointless, the voters need to make up their minds before voting. However, there is good reason to hold another, different vote, in which the public can express their consent for either a no-deal Brexit with a choice of hard borders in the Irish Sea or on the island of Ireland or a "soft, Norwegian" Brexit or revoking Art50 altogether. On that, maybe the Scots should be given the choice to split from the UK on condition, after all, the independence referendum was influenced by Scotland no longer being in the EU, if they had voted on independence.
´´The problem is not Brexit but the lack of Brexit"- Sure, all these companies are leaving to Europe, because of the "lack of Brexit" . But, I guess, don`t worry- in case of a hard Brexit they will all come back. Yeah sure....Is this woman out of her right mind?
@Lady on google It is a bit too easy to put the blame on Mrs May. It is that half of the the British people that voted leave that now can`t decide what they actually meant by it. We know by now what Brexit is not supposed to mean: Not the deal, but also not no deal, nor any version of the deal. And it is Britain that leaves Europe up in the air. We know what Mrs May wants. The problem is not her, but the fact that nobody knows what the UK wants.
@Lady on google And a no deal Brexit would be accepted by the EU. Fair enough. The problem is: You can only speak for yourself. The UK as a whole said " no" to "no deal". Like to everything else.
@Lady on google that might l be the case, or not , my dear. But as you should know, a poll in the news means absolutely nothing. Or shall the EU finalize a no deal Brexit, because they heard there was a poll in the UK in favor of that? You can`t be that naive , can you? Fact is: Your country, which is all about "self-determination" put itself into a terrible mess. And if you know the way out: Theresas job will soon be vacant...
@Lady on google Misunderstanding my dear. In fact I am sure there is a lot of Brits by now ready to leave the EU in whatever fashion , because they feel embarrassed and humiliated and can`t stand the endless talk and the endless drama anymore. I don`t hold any malice against them or you. But that s why I wouldn`t wish for your wishes to come true. Because , when you said: I wanna leave and start all over again, you nailed it better than you might know. Because a No Deal Brexit would reset the UK to a starting point right at the gras roots. And I don`t think you fully understand, what that would mean. And I don`t claim that I fully understand because you `d be stepping on some uncharted territory. But if it really happened you and most other "Brexiteers" would be shocked . That s what I think. And at that point you would understand, why your politicians tried so desperately to avoid that situation . Not because they are traitors, but because they know more about the disaster on the horizon. "Project fear" you say? Well, fear is not a bad thing. It keeps us from jumping down tall buildings etc... And rightly so.
@Lady on google Problem with the no deal crew is, they all like to mumble about it from the background. But none of them has the guts to come forward take charge and execute the no deal thing that they claim to be so easy going. Why is that M` am?
I find the lady as rigid as a comunist in Russia 1949. He on the other hand has the capacity to acknowledge that he was wrong due to new facts and old facts that he now looks at from a different perspective. I think he is brave going out saying I was wrong. I have always wondered why women are so dogmatic when they are in politics. They seem to chose a path after the choise they seem unable to alter direction.
She is wrong. The vote hasnt been ignored. There has been, i would say, a very real effort to implement Brexit. It just cant be brought to an end that is anywhere near desirable. Brexit is futile.
What I heard in this interview was Osborne speaking in terms of what are known facts currently, developments that have happened since the referendum, while Kite only said what she feels everyone who voted on Brexit, 17 million people, thinks or says now. I think it's a safe bet that Kite isn't an omnipresent or ubiquitous, all seeing, all hearing, mind reader. Put simply, Kite's argument is an ad hominem argument.
YTPartyTonight - No - Kite’s position is simply put - sovereignty matters. If Remoaners are prepared to create all of this havoc in order to be servile to a foreign elite - my money is on Kite and not a the wimp Oborne. The issue hasn’t changed one iota - some of us do not want to be governed by a foreign power - others have adopted a subservient role and are happy such. Will you clean my shoes also?
Wendy Priestley - but also as you get older you get wiser - naive and romantic Remain voters are getting up to speed with the real issue ‘sovereignty ‘ and flipping to the Leave side of the debate. Listen to wisdom - don’t be so naive.
@@frze5645 BTW, since you're making agist generalizations, by your thinking, when does "get older" happen? What decade of age are you; are you over age 60?
17.4m leave. 16.1 remain. So 2016 was 1.4m vote majority. Brexit supporters always quote the bigger number as if that was the majority. Much like £350m a week sign on a bus was inflated for effect. It ignored the several billion annually rebated. Negotiated by Thatcher. 1.4m is not huge if you look at the % turn out on the referendum and then by age banding. Young voters under voted on a per capita basis. As they tend to do in all elections. So blame Blair that can be placed at Cambridge Analytica’s hacking of FB accounts to plume in fake news directly into peoples new feeds. Directed by Steve Bannon (Trump’s strategy guy) and funded by the Mercer family, a US billionaire family. With hard right Republican ideals. 6 years later. What has changed that even U.K. politicians can’t say has not? Circa 2m voters have died (majority were elderly and they were pro Brexit leaning especially in England and Covid was also a significant factor). Circa 3m young people that could not vote then can vote now. The minority of young that did vote leave and the majority that didn’t vote at all, are all very much more aware now of what they lost. Access to EU education, health, jobs and visa free benefits. Explains the massive surge in EU passport applications by U.K. nationals. Especially the young. The don’t want to do the jobs that 1m EU nationals used to do and don’t want to come back for now. What would NI and Scotland do given a 2nd chance? Massive rejoin vote is the short answer in both cases. Why? Cor many they would prefer to maintain the Union. Denied that prospect, the Scottish Independence Referendum and NI boarder referendum outcomes are highly unpredictable. That means years more of devision and uncertainty. What would Wales do, given they voted leave. I would predict a massive vote to rejoin for all the above reasons and because the Welsh people have realised that the level of EU funding it used ti receive was huge and will not be replaced by GB taxpayers. What would England voter do? Business would massively back a rejoin or a version of the Norway/Switzerland deals. It’s all about economics and business leaders regard Brexit as a trade war with yourself. Young voters, especially English, would turn out in unprecedented numbers and vote to rejoin. What could the cost be? No annual rebate would be the smallest price. Market access fees (like Norway and Switzerland pay). At a minimum. Say £15-20bn a year. As opposed to £8pm net before. But it would not end there. Taxation alignment. ECJ and EU regs on food, energy etc. The U.K. would be lucky to retain its central bank and the pound as it had before. France and Germany would drive a hard bargain is my guess. They both want a slice of London’s financial services market share. It is also worth say that the EU rebate is equivalent to what GB sends to NI to maintain its economy.
Repeat after me. It is not in the UK remit to "rejoin". You go to the back of the queue and re-apply. You will not get the same deal as before as you can o longer be trusted as a nation to honour your solemn treaty. There will be many, many conditions such as, no more Sterling, no more FPTP, join the EURO zone monetary rules. And that's just the start. You were in a powerful position in the EU but you allowed the Tory party to treat you like dirt.
Finally. A brexiteer who has the decency to come forward and put his hands up. I hope more brexiteers find the courage to do the same. The UK must put an end to this insanity so it can start getting back on its feet (economy).
The internationalist (Peter Oborne) is doing an analysis of issues and things changing has engendered a change of mind about leaving. The nationalist (Melissa Kite) is doing ad hominem swipes at the internationalist as an individual.
@my playlist shows why men are rejecting marriage You do not speak for Britain. You speak only for yourself i.e. what YOU "see" regarding the EU, UN - Perhaps when you "see" the pyramids of Egypt and Mexico you don't see products of human labour but "ancient aliens"? The island of "Atlantis"? The "Illuminati" and "Masons" plot to take control of the world? The "Devil"? The "Antichrist", "Satan"? The loch ness monster? What you don't mention is the fact that it is US imperialism which is killing and maiming people all over the world.
@my playlist shows why men are rejecting marriage Answer 1: "patriotism" in it s most perverted form is blooming like crazy all over the European continent. And all over the world. Where is the heck is "patriotism" wiped out? Are you insane? Answer 2: people are fleeing to Europe because many places around the world have been devastated by ruthless imperialistic natioanalistic policies by those great European nations, by the US , Russia, China etc. But what do you think? Refugees are really NWO controlled agents coming over to screw up your little nation? Answer 3 to my question: Yes, you are insane.
it takes courage to come out on national tv and say you were wrong...with the passage of time Peter has been proven right in his volte face and this dumb harpy from the spectator is WRONG...i was undecided up until two weeks before the referendum and then i looked around at the people who were screaming like banshees for brexit and i thought nah these aren't my people...that is when i knew voting remain was the right thing to do.
Her desperation in losing the argument is shown when she says every single Brexit voter wants no deal. How does she know? Has she spoken to every single one?
Yes, she's a total embarrassment. But do you think she realizes or - more worrying still - cares? When you think of the whole history of the Brexit movement, who knows? It's fairly evenly split between the ignorant, the naive, the easily led and the cynical, self-seeking and the manipulative. An unholy alliance that has got into the unholy mess that we are in today.
Michael Ainsworth Private school media? We buy £71b more from the EU than sell and pay £12b for the privilege.We sell the US £42b more than sell and don’t pay a penny
Micheal Ainsworth both parties promised leave in their 2017 manifestos,so twice the people have vitro to leave,now a corrupted parliament is denying the voters and acting like Mugabe.Erdogan and the like
I must say, Melissa seems to be implying that everyone that happened since brexit is what was expected. With foresight like that (but apparently not written down anywhere) I'm surprised she hasn't retired from her sports betting winnings, or lottery winnings.
I really wish he had more time to lay out the facts that led to his epiphany without that Brexit harpy screeching at him to stay strong and keep believing in the Brexit Unicorns. Thank God people like Peter Obourne exist and are honest enough to come clean and say they made a mistake, I hope the video goes viral.
Hahahahahaha Melissa Kite goes into Brextremist meltdown shouting over all the valid points Peter makes. Well done Peter for admitting you are wrong and that the Leave campaign lied!!!!
The informed knew or suspected a lot of the issues, but then when they stood up and talked about it - they were slammed under the "Project Fear" banner.
@@stephenconway2468 Absolutely, The EU has been publicly contentious since it began. Where did the hatred and vitriol towards leavers come from? It can only come from a very successful propaganda machine that is the EU. No previous vote has ever elicited such madness as to divide friends and family, The Brussels machine is truly evil.
@@davemurphy2020 - that's a strange view! The leave machine has pumped out lies and hatred for decades against the EU. Do you want me to copy you a list of the decades of lies. It will take ages for you to read. The EU has finally pushed back with reality. There have been no payments made by the EU to facebook for illegal data mining. They have been no strange funding to Remain projects from foreign sources. Yet, you boldly stand there and accuse the EU of creating vitriol! You are a strange man. The Leave campaigners have not just lied but actually threatened the EU. Yet - the EU just stands there and carefully and calmly explains the reality of such threats. What vitriol are you discussing?
@@davemurphy2020 " It can only come from a very successful propaganda machine that is the EU." Actually it comes from Remainers who are tired of the lies and vitriol from Leave. It would include me, but I refuse to stoop to that level.
At least you've admitted it. And now you're being called a 'dickhead' by someone who is calling you a mate and he's telling you 'to late'. I'm sure he meant too late... 🙊
@Super DuperChap Tut, tut, tut! Your level of debate: you call someone that has reappraised their original decision a "Coward" or "More likely a liar"! That is your level? An idiot, I'd say. I'll have you know that I voted leave in 1975, along with many left wing people at the time. My views would have been broadly in line with the late great Tony Benn. I still despise the EU for many of the same reasons as then. Namely that it is a totally undemocratic institution ruled by unelected European commissioners. We now have a toothless EU parliament that can neither create laws nor repeal laws. We have had a string of commissioners such as Neil Kinnock that basked in and was prepared to gloss over the vast net of corruption. My latest hate it the copyright laws that the EU council is about to formalise which will kill the internet along with what remains of free speach. Whether or not we are in the EU or not, we will be part of that. As you can tell, I am no lover of the EU. I have just recognised that we will now gain little by being outside and still having to be ruled by them. I voted with the majority to leave. There was no agreement about what leave actually meant though. Your leave was probably quite different from my leave. I don't really think that I really knew what my leave actually meant; I just wanted out. I believe that rather than belittling ourselves any farther by begging for an extension of Article 50, we should just unilaterally revoke it and then decide where we are going to go in our own time.
You are automatically transformed into a persona non-grata by people who voted to leave just because you accept facts over opinions. This shows a lot about the behavior of these people who are determined to jump head first and take everyone down with them just to not be proven wrong!
That woman and her self righteous authoritarian attitude, trying to talk above Peter, not letting him lay out his thoughts to the end (as he lets her) and even questioning if he voted Leave (implying surreptitiously that he's a liar) just comes to show the blatant state of denial the Brexiteers are in. Simply because Brexit isn't happening e x a c t l y as they wanted. That's what the UK gets for making a popular and populist referendum about a complex issue that 80% of the general public has no clue about. And what for, Mr. Cameron? Just to steal some votes from UKIP? Votes that Mrs. May lost immediately afterwards with that ego based General election? I won't even go into the fact that the Leave campaign was as fraudulent as it gets, breaking electoral law with overspending and Arron Banks receiving Russian money.
Well said Peter Osborne ! I disagree with her.There are a lot of people online who want to stay in the EU. In this discussion. The women did not say anything sensible. . .
With you all the way on this one, Peter. Nobody had a clue what Brexit meant in 2016. Many thought it was about curbing immigration. The reality is that we'll be giving away our auto industry, aerospace industry, and financial services industry. We'll have very little standing on the international stage. In fact, we''ll be disappearing down a rabbit-hole of our own making.
I've more than changed my mind. Once I saw the lies, the extremism, the fascist coming out of the woodwork ... Oh, and then I read the White Paper in regards to our membership. I've changed my mind big time, and I know many who feel the same.
This is getting ridiculous, all reasonable discussion is being shut down by the mindless shouting of slogans. What has happened to British debate and democracy.
One person here has sense and integrity. The other is dogmatic and immune to reason. You choose which is which. I have listened to Oborne on this subject for the last 3 years, much of it pulling my hair out. It is deeply refreshing to hear him accept reality and concede his error. I congratulate him. If people can't do that in public without being shamed or ridiculed then we are screwed because if there is one thing that will always be true about us as human beings, it's that we can get stuff wrong if we make decisions without enough information. You can hear in the voice of Brexiteers that they know that the arguments about economics and well being are clearly not on their side. They only have one thing left - nationalism and their narrow conception of "British identity". As I heard Geoffrey Cox say explicitly the other day, they hate the idea that young Brits feel like Europeans now. They can't stand it. They have this outdated view of Britain as an island nation is splendid isolation (apart from the countries that it conquered and subjugated of course). Well Geoffrey, that is the past and shame on you for trying to make us live in your past and denying us our future!
I live in the EU and I work with people around the world and all of them without exception think no deal is insane and the British have gone crazy. sadly, that woman is deluded, and wanting a no-deal for many will be like a kick in the face. Boris Johnson, Farage, and others will be fine during a hard brexit unlike many who will lose their jobs.
@my playlist shows why men are rejecting marriage which ones be specific. Nissan, Airbus, Jaguar, are scaling back and might move their operations to the EU. Many Banks are moving to the EU. Even Rees Mogg opened an office in Dublin.
I will never accuse anyone on voting Leave in 2016 considering all the lies and the deceptions. No one knew what we are voting for, not even us, Remainers. But now we DO know, and now, there are no more excuses for being a Brexiteer. This is Brexit means Brexit, having our cake and eating it, a cake of Unicorn manure. Bon appetit!
@my playlist shows why men are rejecting marriage Hello there to you on Cuckoo Land. Why aren't there any Remainers as brain-dead fantasist as you but in the opposite camp, I wonder. I say everyday that most Brexiteers are not racist, far-right or certifiable, but my God, all of them are on the Brexit side. I want to meet your opposite. The Remainer that wants to stay in the EU because it is the Paradise created by God on Earth, where do I find your counterpart delusional conspiracy theorist.
It has to be a wonderful thing, to be able to laugh while the futures of hundreds of thousands of the working poor balance on a self inflicted, self destructive policy. You must be a treat to have at parties.
@@ajmeyers5661 Oh so you now care about "the working poor" are these the "working poor" that have seen their wages stagnate as a consequence of employers having the ability to pay a university educated Polish person £8.00? Take your bullshit somewhere else. The average hourly wage should probably be £11-12 an hour. The EU isn't all just about travel or culture. Big business wants the EU as it gives employers millions of relatively poor people easy access to the job market. Why spend thousands training a young lad from Newcastle to lay bricks when you can have a fully trained Bulgarian tomorrow? You people make me sick. Just because your experience of the EU is positive it must be a universal good? It isn't! Also a nation can't "ponzi scheme" through immigration. We get a million new people living in Britain every 3 years and the BBC said England was going to run out of fresh water at the rate of population increase in 25 years? Scuttle off back to the Guardian!
I like her argument "We don't know how Brexit will be because we haven't had it yet". It is like standing on the edge of a cliff and claiming "We don't know how deep it is until we jump".
Well, as a European I changed my mind too: I always considered UK to be an integral part of the European project, now I just cannot stand the idea it is staying so long. (The only valid reason for tolerating an extension being Ireland, which is family). Congrats, Brits, you have managed to generate a true Anglophobic feeling in Europe.
it can. it's just illegal. well it would be the UK breaking the good fridays agreemend, and their parliamens votes which claimed multible times that there will not be a no deal brexit. - But who will call for justice? Seeing ao may MPs lying happily every day and not beeing jailed shows the future.
@@MathieuDeVinois good point well made. But Britain will not renage on an internationally recognised treaty - Good Friday Agreement. It would cost the Union and the DUP will not allow that. Therefore there will be a political compromise which means that the UK will stay in the EU - (call it what you like - withdrawl Agreement?...deal?...doesn't matter what you call it) as a second rate member, economically dis advantaged and disenfranchised within the EU.
some months ago I thought the same. I think the point is near where UK MPs as the EU may think it is easier to just divide with no deal then trying to negotiate a deal. even if its just a name for something which is similar to an EU membership but can be claimed to be a soft Brexit. It's like giving up on both sides or like "better having an shocking ending than an endless shock" ... Well, I do hope there will be a better solution for the people. we'll see.
@@MathieuDeVinois For some reason, I have a hunch that there's going to be another referendum between a soft Brexit and remain. The beautiful irony of that situation, if it came to pass of course, would be the fact that it would be entirely the ERG's fault for not backing May's deal.
People on all sides have been evasive about answering questions honestly to a greater or lessor extent, sometimes because they want to pretend that impossible things are possible or they want to avoid the blame for something. It is clear that the reality is that NI has to stay in the single market and customs union, whatever GB does. No one, including the EU, stated this plainly. They didn't want to be accused of trying to dictate things to the UK and they wanted the UK government to take the blame for failing to come up with alternative arrangements. But anyone who has looked at it closely and isn't a fantasist can see this is the reality. This means that the only choices are hard Brexit for GB and a border in the Irish Sea, or soft Brexit for the whole UK. The DUP would never agree to the former, and the latter is pointless as it doesn't deliver the Brexit promises. If you have to follow the rules without having a vote on them then you have less sovereignty than you do as members of the EU. Holding the referendum without making it clear to people that one of these 2 choices would have to be the destination was grossly irresponsible. But no one wants to admit the hard truth because then they would get blamed for it.
Worse thing we could have done, leave something that protected our rights as workers and everything in life, now the government are gradually without you perhaps noticing changing the rules to make us worse off and making themselves protected.!! True
Brexit was to be a complete exit not one leg in and one leg out. I voted for a clean break not something worse than remaining. These politicians are pushing for something that is so bad neither Remain or Brexit voters would accept it. A peoples vote is the answer under thew circumstances. Choices Remain or No Deal which must not be advisory but binding in law!!!!
The world is a connected place, if you want all out ask Mr. Musk to join his car. The point is to find a negotiated middle ground and so far UK does not accept what it can not get and is still unable to come up and agree to sth that is possible.
Ms Kite says,,,you MUST have known this before,,you MUST have known it, Known WHAT ? Were Brexit voters omniscient? How many of the 17,41 million KNEW before the Referendum that The Irish Border/Good Friday Agreement would be the major barrier to Brexit ? Was there ONE who knew? Polls seem to indicate that NOW they know they dont care,,,they still want Brexit whatever the cost, Is Brexit really worth whatever it costs ?
Peter Oborne: facts, statistics, evidence Melissa Kite: "no, I don't believe...17.4 million people...no, you're wrong...I haven't heard anything" How is she still in a job?
Man : I was for brexit I'm not anymore woman : Millions voted for brexit, I haven't heard any of them saying they changed their mind. Duh !? You literally just did ! She has just closed her ears.
Ms Kite brings up this 17.4 Mio people .................. 3 years after the referendum, when is the penny going to drop with people that this number has no further relevance in 2019?
As the live polls I have taken part in are showing 65% to 69% leave I would guess that it's now more than 17.4 million who want to leave, the last poll for deal or WTO was WTO at nearly 60%
Typical Brexit debate! One person being reasonable and acknowledging nuance, and the other (the Brexiteer, of course) being obsessive, intransigent, pig-ignorant and just plain staggeringly wrong. Amazing how Brexit has given a platform to cretins.
I'd like to buy Peter Oborne a new shirt. I'm so impressed he's not just changed his mind but being so public about it. Fantastic honesty or the sort we rarely see in public life.
Totally agree, Iain
The world has changed in those 2 years. Negotiating trade deals with the US will likely result in a bad outcome for us. Brexit is utter garbage and will cause real damage economically. Particularly manufacturing and the agrifood industries.
Get the fool another belt whilst your at the shops. This debacle shows the EU up for what it is. All over Europe people have had enough of the Brussels dictatorship.
Amazing reading the comments to this post. So many Brexit supporters who in the past would have worshipped the ground Oborne walked on, now reduced to desperately discrediting him. Brexiteers are like a cult religion where no one is allowed to admit the truth and as soon as one of their own comes out and says "we are being asked to drink poisoned kool-aid" the entire cult will mindlessly gang up on the individual.
You mean, he is claiming that he was duped like a naïve innocent child by those wicked Brexiteers? What value does that put on his present opinion? Has he suddenly become a shrewd dude, or is he just sucking up Project Fear?
I never thought I would have respect for a Daily Mail columnist. Whatever your views might be it is incredibly admirable to admit when you're wrong.
Thomas I see the ukip morons are off their medication again.
peter O’Neill it’s just an economic area LIE the referendum result will be acted upon LIE both parties promised to leave in their 2017 manifestos LIE
Brexit Monger yes I understand it’s Geordie Greg a staunch remainer.
A thoroughly admirable example of integrity = whether you agree with his opinion or not
Thomas Ullmann. Bit fucking late though
Before the election: "We can be like Norway!"
After the election: "17.4 million people voted for no deal Brexit!"
“We haven’t had Brexit yet.” So the lady’s point is “let’s get out first, then we figure out what kind of trade deal and other arrangements are.” Great, such a responsible way to decide a nation’s fortune.
'Brexit hasn't happened yet' seems to be a new mantra for brexit's mouthpieces. They think it gets them off the hook for anything bad that happens (despite claiming that nothing bad has happened). They do not grasp the idea that businesses plan ahead and have to plan on the basis of future expectations - probably because they clearly prefer wishful thinking to planning.
@@forenamesurname6147 The eu a vehicle for Germany and on the back of the dead in 2 world wars you idiots are quite happy to have your lives controlled by diktat from the eu commission the equivalent of the soviet politburo shameful
@@basilshmylo897 well, you're really showing me who the idiot is!
Basil Shmylo wow...
Lady on google Well, I would blame David Cameron first. Such complicated issue shouldn’t have been decided through a referendum in the first place. That’s politicians’ job.
Not to mention that people can only choose between yes and no. The reality has shown that the EU problem is not a simple yes or no problem. Among the leaving folks, they can’t even agree what leave means. If everyone were no deal brexiters like you, you would have left already.
I’m sick of hearing the 17.4 million people statistic. If 288 billion people voted to jump off a cliff, it still wouldn’t be a good decision.
Me too! That, and ' the will of the people'. There are 66 million people in UK. 17.4 million voted to leave. So that leaves, er ...
They aren't even 17.4 left, because some of them passed away and some of them changed their minds in the process.
It would if those 288 billion people were as dense as this woman is.
rondon9897, tho before the last one jumping off there must have been a soft landing:P
It could be also argued that we are in a mess because of David Cameron calling a referendum and 17.4 million voting to leave. Those 17.4 m do not represent a single unchanging viewpoint for a single utopian view of Brexit and in all likelihood, very few of them had even heard of what WTO is. There is not even consensus of what Brexit even should look like. It is one thing to leave but where are you going to or heading towards...So, in the end, the 17.4 million that is often quoted by the more extreme of the Brexiteers as if that figure does represent a consensus viewpoint is quite clearly false. Interestingly also in the US, a constitutional change of this magnitude would require a 2/3rds majority.
It takes intelligence and integrity to be able to absorb facts to the point of changing your own opinion. Go figure
I like how she brings all the talking points they supplied her with, without any thought of her own.
WindkindO we buy £71b more from the EU than sell and pay £12b for the privilege.we sell the US £42b more than buy and don’t pay a penny
WindkindO the WTO has 164 member countries incl the EU and is the largest economic org in the world
@@Jack-fs2im Oh so easy to refute...first of all, we pay 12b (?) to be a member of a club, therefore paying NO TARIFFS while trading with the EU (that alone is worth muchg more than the 12b...add to that the massive amount of great deals with third party countries due to EU market power and the overall benefits of being part of the greatest peace project on earth....), in the trade with the US, we do pay those tariffs, making the trading much more expensive....the WTO also has tariffs, making it more expensive as well.....sooo where the f* are you going at?
Lliad89 £12b is a tariff.Please supply evidence for yr claims that the WTO tariffs are more .Most of the things you have are made outside the EU and have a tariff added by the EU.This means as Germany is the EU biggest manufacturer it favours them.As I said please supply evidence for yr claims
@@Jack-fs2im Where is your own evidence, delusional brexshiteer?!
I like it how she's repeatedly saying that 17.4 million have not changed their mind - as if she asked each and every one of them, including the ~700,000 dead people who, when they were still alive, voted "leave".
Remainers died too but there is probably more old uneducated leavers in %
Omer You do of course apply that logic to the constituents who voted the current shower into Government or even Cameron's lot . And using your gift of prescience you would know the wishes of the yet unborn when they reach voting age looking back at the EU's version of democracy that the majority of their ancestors struggled against and wonder why, in the youtube archive Omer Shomrat not only got the numbers wrong but would consider publishing such a dimwitted statement.
Or
Maybe you are not taking into account those that were to young to vote in the referendum to join the common market getting a chance to right the wrongs of those that were lied to then 40 odd years ago. After all,now we have experienced the EU's shenanigans we are all a bit wiser.
if there would only be a way to ask everyone... hmm one would need a referendum ... naa
Omer Shomrat - as you get older you get wiser (a fact) that is why more older voters voted to leave. Remain voters are naive and romantic - as they get older they sensibly become Leave voters and so the numbers remain the same. Of course there are many young leave voters but they are less hitched up to romantic notions such as being in service to a foreign power. Remoaners have a slave mentality.
@@frze5645 old fools just get old but stay fools. What has changed is reality and exposed lies. Young people have open minds and are used to adept.
She was awful in this. Nothing to back up her claims, the same old shite we have been hearing for 3 years.
I know,Peter Oborne is a big girl's blouse but i'm not sure he likes to be referred to as 'she' yet.
@@adrianlloyd6403 Spoken like another 7 year old. Pathetic.
@@JerehmiaBoaz So you're off school as well then.
she said : her feelings !!! and she is not hearing !!! Shouldnt that be enough?
Economy will crumble, scotland will go independent, we are laughing stock of the world. etc..
blonde: butt... 17.4 milioinn peopleee
"Every single Brexit voter wants No Deal"
Good to see that Melissa is as dense those that voted for Brexit.
I know of at least one Brexit voter who expected us to remain in the single market - i.e. close to the EU. so, lady, you are talking bullshit.
I never thought you could speak so many words without actually saying anything. Well done Melissa Kite
@Michael McCullagh I was actually referring to Melissa Kite. Something which proves that not all remainers are as clever as they would like to think :)
The Irish Border is just a hoax,the Irish PM says there will be no border whatever the outcome
@@Jack-fs2im
a) there has always been a border, the difference is how it is treated with respect to the movement of goods and people before and after EU membership
b) whatever Varadkar says it is _not_ in his gift to make these promises. The EU stipulates what happens at borders with external nations and, no matter what Leo wants, Eire will have to abide by EU ruling(s) on how the current arrangements are affected by whatever constitutes the outcome of this shabby process.
I think most, if not all, can agree (regardless of which side of the argument they sit) the British parliament have shown tremendous ineptitude in this matter, which just makes some wonder why anyone in Britain would want to hand their future to that body.
Eric T Watson the question is “A Hard border” and Varadker has said it will only be in country checks and this has a precedent within the EU with Norway and Sweden so the EU policy is No Hard Border.Also Ireland had a different corporation tax which is not compliant with the EU.So Varadker can do what he says
@@Jack-fs2im is leaving going to be in a manner that mimics the Norway arrangement with the EU? What else does your crystal ball say? To be honest a friction free outcome would be ideal but, until the details are agreed no-one can say what will occur or even be possible.
That woman is the embodiment of living in another world, disconnected from reality. All you gotta do is ...
@andrew chambers Traitor, lol.
@andrew chambers I mean no disrespect, but what does Brexit actually mean? And was that definition clearly delineated before the ref vote? That, to me, is the problem now. You are relying on "too many chefs" to answer the question, with potential varied outcomes. If 2nd vote is floated, or any other referendum for that matter, line item points on vote would help.
@Wat ching u It might as well be, due to the demented contributions of some.
Love how she tells a Brexit voter how all Brexit voters feel.
Nothing wrong in admitting one's wrong...
Intelligent, rational people do that all the time...
Droll
@Largesse1000
Why?
So do stupid cunts.
Lol. Trying to use your brains, even though it might be late or- due to lack of practise- a bit awkward, that´s not the Kipper´s way. You see what you get for even thinking that´s within their grasp...
@@alangaillard2988 No, stupid cunts stick to their view despite all evidence to the contrary.
Sensible chap. Brave to admit he was wrong.
He still is wrong !
@@blackphilip8936 Can't run it in. They were honestly lied to and it wasn't fair that they are now being victimized again. We have to show we forgive them because the unity of the country is all that matters. The ones we don't forgive and deserve good swift kick are Cameron, Mogg, Fromage and Johnson. They should all be exiled to Cameron's yacht and be forced to circumnavigate the world for 3 years together. Teach them fuckers a lesson.
@@christopherspavins9250 Only 3 years? Eh, enough time to find an iceberg I guess.
Maybe he was 52% for brexit and 48% against, a small shift in opinion can flip him over to 'the dark side'.
What makes you think that someone is 100% leaver or 100% remainer? That a total change of mindset, personality, philosophy, is needed to change opinion?
Wrong? You say...
Probably he made up the balance and thought at that time, weighing all fors and againsts that it might be wise to leave..., seeing all the consequences the balance shifted towards, maybe we would better stay in.
It is not a complete shift from red to blue, but a slight change in purple.
@Lady on google and you are a remainer.
You remain crazy 😂
Ireland haunted Britain for 500 years? I despair at the ignorance displayed by people in England
Ireland been haunting itself for 25000 years. Its what you do best. 😊😉😁 Ruby for president!!!
Marie the mainland has no real care or concern for the six counties ! Peace
Exactly. How do they think we feel? Just when we thought things were normalising, they come up with brexit to shake us out of our complacency.
@@forenamesurname6147 You has been complacent really you has no functioning government in the 6 counties and no one seems to say anything I'm very surprised ! Peace
Haunted by the Dead. Now why would dead Irish souls haunt Britain? We shall never know.
This is time for Scotland to be Scotland not UK and for Ireland to be Ireland not UK. Then we watch em Brexit!
@Lady on google beter together was the campaign slogan if i remember correctly but i find myself asking if that is correct for the UK why is it not correct for the EU
i don't know what scotland is waiting for.
@Lady on google That's because they voted well before brexshit referendum
@Lady on google Scottish are not English, dummy!
@@daviddavidson7079 I’m hoping the UK will collapse into its constituent parts.
It was a brave move for Peter to admit he was wrong about Brexit. Perhaps more public figures will follow in his footsteps? Well done.
James, do you know that the treaty of Lisbon gives the EU total control of all our forces plus our oil revenue plus our tax policy : fishing grounds: EVERYTHING !! why do you want to give your country away ??
Hardly a case of repenteth the sinner.He doesn't look as if he is wrestling with his conscience and seeing the 'error of his ways' for having promoted something that he no longer believes in.I think Tony Blair is more of a 'Brexiteer'than Oborne purports to be.Sorry i don't buy it.A bit like Sarah Wollaston during the referendum campaign,why are these leave/remain change-overs given such media prominence? Sincere in their beliefs....i believe not imho.
@@rumples2698 Have you been reading that bullshit list thats doing the rounds then?
@andrew chambers paid off lol.
@andrew chambers ...I guess your eyes are sharp enough to even see the emperors new clothes? Tell me, how do you see he `s been paid off? Does he have Dollar signs in his eyes that only you and your little thumbs-up-crew can see?
Melissa doesn't understand that if you have signed a contract with your biggest trading partner (more than 60 percent) and then want to change that contract, that will come at a price. Apparently very hard for some the British to get this logic!!
Less than 10% GDP. All our trade suffers EU Tariffs and conditions. This is why no deal is best . The EU has de-industrialized Britain, France, Italy and Spain and is doing the same to the Netherlands, Poland and Hungary Whilst creaming customs union taxes from European citizens on goods from outside the EU and controlling investment in each and every European Nation to the benefit of the expanding EU gravy train. Unemployment has increased in Europe over the last 20 years and the poverty gap has grown larger. Germany is also now feeling the pinch owing to a stagnation of incomes and rising property prices. The experiment has failed.
@@davemurphy2020 How come you think it is less than 10%?
@@davemurphy2020 ruclips.net/video/CRJev8bWRU8/видео.html
@@mirjamok8116 Easy 90% of our trade is with the rest of the world but we have to export using EU trade rules, Customs Union and EU tariffs Only about 10% Of our income, GDP, comes from selling to Europeans. Look it up. Actually GDP is a red herring it was bought in after ww2 as part of the marshal plan as a guide to meter the recovery of Nations after a war so that the American post war rescue of the European economies didn't flounder. It doesn't take into account the movement of people and the resultant suppression of income, the contentedness of a population, banking service fluctuations, property expansion or the eradication of core industries or political upheaval, It's based on theories that are almost a hundred years old. Yet it's used world wide to monitor the success of every nation.
@@davemurphy2020 so in your mind a german car has the same value as an american orange?
"We didn't have it, so we don't know what's going to happen..."
True.
But I don't have to gouge out my eyes first in order to KNOW it would blind me.
Trail & error is ok, as long as you can go back. Not the case with Brexit.
Experts were able to estimate what the consequences of different kinds of Brexit would be, but many people chose to ignore the experts because their expert testimony didn't support the outcome they wanted. Apart from 1 or 2 large scale choices the outcome of the negotiations was never going to differ by very much from what was expected. But now those choices have been made and negotiations have been completed it's time to let the public vote on whether they like the reality of Brexit rather than the fantasy they were offered in 2016.
Hans Kuijsten - typical negative Remoaner approach to the issue - Remoaners couch everything in disaster scenarios - they are negative people and more comfortable in servitude than as master - they have a slave mentality.
Adrian Thoroughgood ridiculous. How do we know that our economy wouldn’t have been much more successful had we not joined the EEC in the first place? What difference would £500 billion invested into our infrastructure have made instead of being sent to Brussels? The UK will prosper outside the EU as a matter of
Certainty - the only thing holding us back is a duplicitous parliament and frightened remainers.
@@frze5645 A lot less than the £1 trillion in tax revenue the government has only had to spend because passporting and EU open skies amongst others allow those companies to do buisness in the EU while paying their taxes and employing their workers in the UK. This is all money those companies could only ever have earned by setting up a subsidiary abroad and paying all their taxes and salaries over there without the EU, I am not even factoring in trade that is only competitive because of the lack of tariffs this is just the money that would be legally impossible for the UK to earn without EU membership which is currently standing at around £100 billion per year. Fact is that while the UK economy makes much much more than the cost of membership out of it the UK government also makes around 200% of the membership fee in tax revenue based on a conservative estimate. Granted tory governments usually don't invest this money in infrastructure as wealthy supporters need to be paid off with pork barrel projects but the profit is there and without it there would have been less money for investment in the UK as you can be damn sure investment would be cut before pork barrel projects.
This woman is from a different planet.
She is completely lost someone please help her.
@Wat ching u Obviously not the one standing right beside her. Who happens to be one of the people you quote.
@Wat ching u As someone who voted leave and has since changed their mind, she no longer represents me. And surveys and polls since the Brexit vote suggest many others are the same. 17.4 million is an outdated number.
@Wat ching u "Oh look, an online poll. I automatically have to trust it because... reasons" :))))))))))))))) You are so easy to fool!
And Osborne came out of Uranus
Ash it’s only an economic area LIE the referendum result will be acted upon LIE both parties promised leave in their 2017 manifestos LIE
There were two petitions presented to Parliament. One to revoke Article 50. It had in excess of 6 million signatures. The 2nd, for a no deal Brexit had just over 100,000 signatures.
God this woman is lying through her teeth 😂😂
@Wat ching u She literally said "Every single Brexit voter is saying 'no deal'", twice. She hasn't talked to every Brexit voter, nor has anyone else, so that is by definition a lie. For further inquiries I'd refer you to her face, which has "I'M LYING" written all over it.
@Wat ching u fuktard
@Wat ching u She says it twice in a row on 4:00. In addition, she says she hasn't heard a single person say they've changed their mind from Brexit to remain, even though she's standing right next to one such person, and he certainly isn't the first on this very channel. She's either lying, or she has a very unbalanced news diet. So ionically, she does speak for many Brexit voters indeed.
@@chawenhalo0089 Probably for the same reason: he can't argue what the other person is saying 🤷🏼♂️
@Wat ching u Sure, sure. First deny she said it in the first place, then say she didn't mean it that way. Like how Johnson didn't mean you'd save 350m pounds per week, right? You're following the trend of religiously believing lying politicians and pundits, and performing mental gymnastics to feel like you're consistent. Whatevs, you'll be hurt more by it than I will 🇳🇱🇪🇺
She still repeats the nonsense about 17.4 millions standing firm in front of one of those millions saying exactly the opposite.
Exactly , they obviously paid this clown off, yet all the remoaner tards will clutch to this as "OH MY GOD, THE LEAVERS HAVE CHANGED THEIR MINDS , HOLD ANOTHER REFERENDUM"
You people are a fucking joke ahahaha
She is in denial At last a Brexiter that has the guts to face the facts
Fishersgreen it’s just an economic area LIE the referendum result will be acted on LIE both parties promised Brexit in their 2017 manifestos LIE
Bit like the leave campaign that was a complete pack of lies from start to finish !! I mean driving a bus around the country promising 350 million to the NHS. To many lies @@Jack-fs2im That's the problem mate.
NO to what That she does not understand the point that he is making ?@Lady on google
Fishersgreen we give the EU £350m a week and they give us back £150m on projects of their choice
Fishersgreen the govt has announced the NHS input will be in excess of £350m instead £645m
The will of the people NOW is more important than the will of the people 3 years ago. A vote by definition cannot be undemocratic. If you are against a 2nd referendum it is YOU who are against the will of the people. It is YOU who are against democracy.
Finally, someone who understands the unbiased definition of democracy!
@Lady on google brexiteer gibberish...
It is absolutely clear that in the light of the facts, some people will want to vote differently. The 2nd referendum should not be a simple choice between leave or remain, but should force the public to vote between several options including revoking Art50.
Lady on google if you want to start campaigning for a 3rd referendum then you are very welcome to do so. Maybe by the time we get around to having it brexiteers will have formed an actual plan. But after this debacle and now that people have witnessed reality of leaving no politician worth his salt will be marching back into this quagmire. So no, it won’t be best of 5, 7, 11.
@Lady on google I meant either way, as I favour free will.
@Lady on google well, one can't just have one single vote and ignore every bit of information that comes after either. It is, of course true, that repeating the exact same vote - much like May's deal - is pointless, the voters need to make up their minds before voting.
However, there is good reason to hold another, different vote, in which the public can express their consent for either a no-deal Brexit with a choice of hard borders in the Irish Sea or on the island of Ireland or a "soft, Norwegian" Brexit or revoking Art50 altogether.
On that, maybe the Scots should be given the choice to split from the UK on condition, after all, the independence referendum was influenced by Scotland no longer being in the EU, if they had voted on independence.
´´The problem is not Brexit but the lack of Brexit"- Sure, all these companies are leaving to Europe, because of the "lack of Brexit" . But, I guess, don`t worry- in case of a hard Brexit they will all come back. Yeah sure....Is this woman out of her right mind?
@Lady on google It is a bit too easy to put the blame on Mrs May. It is that half of the the British people that voted leave that now can`t decide what they actually meant by it. We know by now what Brexit is not supposed to mean: Not the deal, but also not no deal, nor any version of the deal. And it is Britain that leaves Europe up in the air. We know what Mrs May wants. The problem is not her, but the fact that nobody knows what the UK wants.
@Lady on google And a no deal Brexit would be accepted by the EU. Fair enough. The problem is: You can only speak for yourself. The UK as a whole said " no" to "no deal". Like to everything else.
@Lady on google that might l be the case, or not , my dear. But as you should know, a poll in the news means absolutely nothing. Or shall the EU finalize a no deal Brexit, because they heard there was a poll in the UK in favor of that? You can`t be that naive , can you? Fact is: Your country, which is all about "self-determination" put itself into a terrible mess. And if you know the way out: Theresas job will soon be vacant...
@Lady on google Misunderstanding my dear. In fact I am sure there is a lot of Brits by now ready to leave the EU in whatever fashion , because they feel embarrassed and humiliated and can`t stand the endless talk and the endless drama anymore. I don`t hold any malice against them or you. But that s why I wouldn`t wish for your wishes to come true. Because , when you said: I wanna leave and start all over again, you nailed it better than you might know. Because a No Deal Brexit would reset the UK to a starting point right at the gras roots. And I don`t think you fully understand, what that would mean. And I don`t claim that I fully understand because you `d be stepping on some uncharted territory. But if it really happened you and most other "Brexiteers" would be shocked . That s what I think. And at that point you would understand, why your politicians tried so desperately to avoid that situation . Not because they are traitors, but because they know more about the disaster on the horizon.
"Project fear" you say? Well, fear is not a bad thing. It keeps us from jumping down tall buildings etc...
And rightly so.
@Lady on google Problem with the no deal crew is, they all like to mumble about it from the background. But none of them has the guts to come forward take charge and execute the no deal thing that they claim to be so easy going. Why is that M` am?
I find the lady as rigid as a comunist in Russia 1949. He on the other hand has the capacity to acknowledge that he was wrong due to new facts and old facts that he now looks at from a different perspective. I think he is brave going out saying I was wrong. I have always wondered why women are so dogmatic when they are in politics. They seem to chose a path after the choise they seem unable to alter direction.
To be fair most male politicians refuse to change their positions either. Thus is partly because making a u turn gets publicly derided so much.
lady???????????
I agree with you about this particular woman and this particular man, but not with your generalisation.
She is wrong. The vote hasnt been ignored. There has been, i would say, a very real effort to implement Brexit. It just cant be brought to an end that is anywhere near desirable. Brexit is futile.
Lady on google how comes that the real brexiteers didn’t try to become PM and negotiate the Brexit with the EU?
What I heard in this interview was Osborne speaking in terms of what are known facts currently, developments that have happened since the referendum, while Kite only said what she feels everyone who voted on Brexit, 17 million people, thinks or says now. I think it's a safe bet that Kite isn't an omnipresent or ubiquitous, all seeing, all hearing, mind reader. Put simply, Kite's argument is an ad hominem argument.
YTPartyTonight - No - Kite’s position is simply put - sovereignty matters. If Remoaners are prepared to create all of this havoc in order to be servile to a foreign elite - my money is on Kite and not a the wimp Oborne. The issue hasn’t changed one iota - some of us do not want to be governed by a foreign power - others have adopted a subservient role and are happy such. Will you clean my shoes also?
Wendy Priestley - but also as you get older you get wiser - naive and romantic Remain voters are getting up to speed with the real issue ‘sovereignty ‘ and flipping to the Leave side of the debate.
Listen to wisdom - don’t be so naive.
fr ze Your comment is ridiculous on multiple levels.
fr ze This one too. There is no sovereignty issue; simply adding dashes of it to word salads like your playing Mad Libs does not make it so.
@@frze5645 BTW, since you're making agist generalizations, by your thinking, when does "get older" happen? What decade of age are you; are you over age 60?
17.4m leave. 16.1 remain. So 2016 was 1.4m vote majority.
Brexit supporters always quote the bigger number as if that was the majority. Much like £350m a week sign on a bus was inflated for effect. It ignored the several billion annually rebated. Negotiated by Thatcher.
1.4m is not huge if you look at the % turn out on the referendum and then by age banding. Young voters under voted on a per capita basis. As they tend to do in all elections. So blame Blair that can be placed at Cambridge Analytica’s hacking of FB accounts to plume in fake news directly into peoples new feeds. Directed by Steve Bannon (Trump’s strategy guy) and funded by the Mercer family, a US billionaire family. With hard right Republican ideals.
6 years later. What has changed that even U.K. politicians can’t say has not?
Circa 2m voters have died (majority were elderly and they were pro Brexit leaning especially in England and Covid was also a significant factor).
Circa 3m young people that could not vote then can vote now.
The minority of young that did vote leave and the majority that didn’t vote at all, are all very much more aware now of what they lost.
Access to EU education, health, jobs and visa free benefits. Explains the massive surge in EU passport applications by U.K. nationals. Especially the young. The don’t want to do the jobs that 1m EU nationals used to do and don’t want to come back for now.
What would NI and Scotland do given a 2nd chance? Massive rejoin vote is the short answer in both cases. Why? Cor many they would prefer to maintain the Union. Denied that prospect, the Scottish Independence Referendum and NI boarder referendum outcomes are highly unpredictable. That means years more of devision and uncertainty.
What would Wales do, given they voted leave. I would predict a massive vote to rejoin for all the above reasons and because the Welsh people have realised that the level of EU funding it used ti receive was huge and will not be replaced by GB taxpayers.
What would England voter do? Business would massively back a rejoin or a version of the Norway/Switzerland deals. It’s all about economics and business leaders regard Brexit as a trade war with yourself.
Young voters, especially English, would turn out in unprecedented numbers and vote to rejoin.
What could the cost be? No annual rebate would be the smallest price. Market access fees (like Norway and Switzerland pay). At a minimum. Say £15-20bn a year. As opposed to £8pm net before.
But it would not end there. Taxation alignment. ECJ and EU regs on food, energy etc.
The U.K. would be lucky to retain its central bank and the pound as it had before. France and Germany would drive a hard bargain is my guess. They both want a slice of London’s financial services market share.
It is also worth say that the EU rebate is equivalent to what GB sends to NI to maintain its economy.
Repeat after me. It is not in the UK remit to "rejoin". You go to the back of the queue and re-apply. You will not get the same deal as before as you can o longer be trusted as a nation to honour your solemn treaty. There will be many, many conditions such as, no more Sterling, no more FPTP, join the EURO zone monetary rules. And that's just the start. You were in a powerful position in the EU but you allowed the Tory party to treat you like dirt.
Finally.
A brexiteer who has the decency to come forward and put his hands up.
I hope more brexiteers find the courage to do the same.
The UK must put an end to this insanity so it can start getting back on its feet (economy).
The problem with british people is that most are ashamed to say they are wrong!
@@andrisparalax1752 I'm not....i voted to remain at the referendum. However, i would now vote to leave!
The internationalist (Peter Oborne) is doing an analysis of issues and things changing has engendered a change of mind about leaving. The nationalist (Melissa Kite) is doing ad hominem swipes at the internationalist as an individual.
@my playlist shows why men are rejecting marriage You do not speak for Britain. You speak only for yourself i.e. what YOU "see" regarding the EU, UN - Perhaps when you "see" the pyramids of Egypt and Mexico you don't see products of human labour but "ancient aliens"? The island of "Atlantis"? The "Illuminati" and "Masons" plot to take control of the world? The "Devil"? The "Antichrist", "Satan"? The loch ness monster? What you don't mention is the fact that it is US imperialism which is killing and maiming people all over the world.
I vote for Tony Blair once and got the Iraqi war - it wasn't in his manifesto.
Can we re-run that general election so I can vote conservative please.
@@kevinallsop9815 no. You can't go back in time but you can try not to fuk up again
@my playlist shows why men are rejecting marriage Who are you? Donald Trump?
@my playlist shows why men are rejecting marriage Answer 1: "patriotism" in it s most perverted form is blooming like crazy all over the European continent. And all over the world. Where is the heck is "patriotism" wiped out? Are you insane? Answer 2: people are fleeing to Europe because many places around the world have been devastated by ruthless imperialistic natioanalistic policies by those great European nations, by the US , Russia, China etc. But what do you think? Refugees are really NWO controlled agents coming over to screw up your little nation? Answer 3 to my question: Yes, you are insane.
Blimey, a gammon Mail writer admits he was wrong for his entire working life. If he can do it, anyone can.
This comment needs more up votes ^^
Hate the mail but Peter Oborne isnt your typical right winger his views will surprise you.
ParcelOfRogue “gammon” refers to someone being an unthinking piece of white meat and is racist
Well said Peter, we didn't understand the consequences of Brexit, and now it's GOD HELP US.
Melissa doesn’t debate, she asserts and interrupts. Thank you Peter for attempting to discuss on merits and results.
it takes courage to come out on national tv and say you were wrong...with the passage of time Peter has been proven right in his volte face and this dumb harpy from the spectator is WRONG...i was undecided up until two weeks before the referendum and then i looked around at the people who were screaming like banshees for brexit and i thought nah these aren't my people...that is when i knew voting remain was the right thing to do.
Her desperation in losing the argument is shown when she says every single Brexit voter wants no deal. How does she know? Has she spoken to every single one?
Ah. Poor Melissa Kite. That wasn't good. But good for Peter anyway, that's the main thing .
Yes, she's a total embarrassment. But do you think she realizes or - more worrying still - cares? When you think of the whole history of the Brexit movement, who knows? It's fairly evenly split between the ignorant, the naive, the easily led and the cynical, self-seeking and the manipulative. An unholy alliance that has got into the unholy mess that we are in today.
Michael Ainsworth Private school media? We buy £71b more from the EU than sell and pay £12b for the privilege.We sell the US £42b more than sell and don’t pay a penny
Michael Ainsworth The WTO has 164 member countries incl the EU and is the largest economic organisation in the world
hickory wind after an internal survey CH4 found only 9% of its staff come from a working class background.Private school media?
Micheal Ainsworth both parties promised leave in their 2017 manifestos,so twice the people have vitro to leave,now a corrupted parliament is denying the voters and acting like Mugabe.Erdogan and the like
I must say, Melissa seems to be implying that everyone that happened since brexit is what was expected. With foresight like that (but apparently not written down anywhere) I'm surprised she hasn't retired from her sports betting winnings, or lottery winnings.
I really wish he had more time to lay out the facts that led to his epiphany without that Brexit harpy screeching at him to stay strong and keep believing in the Brexit Unicorns. Thank God people like Peter Obourne exist and are honest enough to come clean and say they made a mistake, I hope the video goes viral.
www.opendemocracy.net/en/opendemocracyuk/i-was-strong-brexiteer-now-we-must-swallow-our-pride-and-think-again/
Hahahahahaha Melissa Kite goes into Brextremist meltdown shouting over all the valid points Peter makes. Well done Peter for admitting you are wrong and that the Leave campaign lied!!!!
OOf. A commentator changes his mind because of the facts. Unusual.
Gar Sm - what facts? Scaremongering does not make for a fact. We haven’t had BREXIT and only when that occurs can we judge the facts.
I haven't stuck my fingers in an electric socket, I will hold off judgment as to whether or not it's good until I've done it.
That woman must be living with her head in the sand...no one knew anything in 2016.
No, you had your head in the sand in 2016. Brexit had been brewing for 20 years! Only the apathetic new nothing.
The informed knew or suspected a lot of the issues, but then when they stood up and talked about it - they were slammed under the "Project Fear" banner.
@@stephenconway2468 Absolutely, The EU has been publicly contentious since it began. Where did the hatred and vitriol towards leavers come from? It can only come from a very successful propaganda machine that is the EU. No previous vote has ever elicited such madness as to divide friends and family, The Brussels machine is truly evil.
@@davemurphy2020 - that's a strange view! The leave machine has pumped out lies and hatred for decades against the EU. Do you want me to copy you a list of the decades of lies. It will take ages for you to read.
The EU has finally pushed back with reality. There have been no payments made by the EU to facebook for illegal data mining. They have been no strange funding to Remain projects from foreign sources. Yet, you boldly stand there and accuse the EU of creating vitriol! You are a strange man.
The Leave campaigners have not just lied
but actually threatened the EU. Yet - the EU just stands there and carefully and calmly explains the reality of such threats. What vitriol are you discussing?
@@davemurphy2020 " It can only come from a very successful propaganda machine that is the EU." Actually it comes from Remainers who are tired of the lies and vitriol from Leave. It would include me, but I refuse to stoop to that level.
I am one of those 17.4 million people and I have indeed changed my mind.
At least you've admitted it. And now you're being called a 'dickhead' by someone who is calling you a mate and he's telling you 'to late'. I'm sure he meant too late... 🙊
Good man.
Fair play.
@Super DuperChap
Tut, tut, tut! Your level of debate: you call someone that has reappraised their original decision a "Coward" or "More likely a liar"! That is your level? An idiot, I'd say.
I'll have you know that I voted leave in 1975, along with many left wing people at the time. My views would have been broadly in line with the late great Tony Benn. I still despise the EU for many of the same reasons as then. Namely that it is a totally undemocratic institution ruled by unelected European commissioners. We now have a toothless EU parliament that can neither create laws nor repeal laws. We have had a string of commissioners such as Neil Kinnock that basked in and was prepared to gloss over the vast net of corruption. My latest hate it the copyright laws that the EU council is about to formalise which will kill the internet along with what remains of free speach. Whether or not we are in the EU or not, we will be part of that.
As you can tell, I am no lover of the EU. I have just recognised that we will now gain little by being outside and still having to be ruled by them.
I voted with the majority to leave. There was no agreement about what leave actually meant though. Your leave was probably quite different from my leave. I don't really think that I really knew what my leave actually meant; I just wanted out.
I believe that rather than belittling ourselves any farther by begging for an extension of Article 50, we should just unilaterally revoke it and then decide where we are going to go in our own time.
You are automatically transformed into a persona non-grata by people who voted to leave just because you accept facts over opinions. This shows a lot about the behavior of these people who are determined to jump head first and take everyone down with them just to not be proven wrong!
That woman and her self righteous authoritarian attitude, trying to talk above Peter, not letting him lay out his thoughts to the end (as he lets her) and even questioning if he voted Leave (implying surreptitiously that he's a liar) just comes to show the blatant state of denial the Brexiteers are in. Simply because Brexit isn't happening e x a c t l y as they wanted. That's what the UK gets for making a popular and populist referendum about a complex issue that 80% of the general public has no clue about. And what for, Mr. Cameron? Just to steal some votes from UKIP? Votes that Mrs. May lost immediately afterwards with that ego based General election?
I won't even go into the fact that the Leave campaign was as fraudulent as it gets, breaking electoral law with overspending and Arron Banks receiving Russian money.
wait... we can change our minds???
she doesn't listen.. several have blogged it, Norgove was on LBC expalining it.. won't listen, won't hear
@Derreck Jones and you won't get the Brexit that was promised, because you were shamelessly lied to. Deal with that.
Yes I vote for leave, now I changed my mind and I would vote for remain.
Well said Peter Osborne ! I disagree with her.There are a lot of people online who want to stay in the EU.
In this discussion. The women did not say anything sensible.
.
.
Still yet to meet ONE Brexit voter who can list one tangible benefit from Brexit.
With you all the way on this one, Peter. Nobody had a clue what Brexit meant in 2016. Many thought it was about curbing immigration. The reality is that we'll be giving away our auto industry, aerospace industry, and financial services industry. We'll have very little standing on the international stage. In fact, we''ll be disappearing down a rabbit-hole of our own making.
WHAT HAVE WE DONE??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Seeing this video now... Peter Oborne is the smart one. He was/is right about everything he said.
She is (they are) completely insane.
@andrew chambers luckily for you your vote doesn't matter
krumble104 - there are two groups of people in Britain - sovereign leavers and Remoaners in servitude. Proud to be Sovereign.
And now it must be clear to all what a rag the Spectator is!
Doc Remington the new boss of the Daily Mail is an ardent remainer,perhaps there’s a clue there
Each time she mention 17.4 million people she should also mention the other 16 million who didnt want
Melissa Kite is a dangerous person.
She is not hearing anyone who voted for Brexit who has changed their mind?! She is soooo full of it.
I've more than changed my mind. Once I saw the lies, the extremism, the fascist coming out of the woodwork ... Oh, and then I read the White Paper in regards to our membership.
I've changed my mind big time, and I know many who feel the same.
You need to be honest. Remind me who led the leave complain. Bojo & Farage. The lady bless her was out of her depth.
Moral of the story:
If it ain't broken, don't try to fix it.
No the problem is we haven't broken it yet. First we brake it and stand firm...
“I’m not hearing this”, says the lady. Then remove your fingers from your ears.
Melissa Kite: "A wise man (woman) changes his (her) mind sometimes, a fool never".
That woman is deluded. The denial is astounding.
This is getting ridiculous, all reasonable discussion is being shut down by the mindless shouting of slogans. What has happened to British debate and democracy.
'Every single Brexit voter is saying no deal.' Seriously? She knows this how?
One person here has sense and integrity.
The other is dogmatic and immune to reason.
You choose which is which.
I have listened to Oborne on this subject for the last 3 years, much of it pulling my hair out. It is deeply refreshing to hear him accept reality and concede his error. I congratulate him. If people can't do that in public without being shamed or ridiculed then we are screwed because if there is one thing that will always be true about us as human beings, it's that we can get stuff wrong if we make decisions without enough information.
You can hear in the voice of Brexiteers that they know that the arguments about economics and well being are clearly not on their side. They only have one thing left - nationalism and their narrow conception of "British identity".
As I heard Geoffrey Cox say explicitly the other day, they hate the idea that young Brits feel like Europeans now. They can't stand it. They have this outdated view of Britain as an island nation is splendid isolation (apart from the countries that it conquered and subjugated of course).
Well Geoffrey, that is the past and shame on you for trying to make us live in your past and denying us our future!
A lack of Brexit? We have the hardest brexit possible!
l regret my vote and a year on he is right on most things
What we've learnt in the last 2 years is how treacherous our politicians are... End of..
*Remain* United
🇬🇧🇪🇺🇬🇧🇪🇺🇬🇧
*Remain* Strong
Foreign mercenaries out
17.4 million people and you think not a single one has changed their mind? What?
Brave Peter Osborne. Well done.
The lady totally is totally shutting her brain.
One second Peter, when remainers were voicing these concerns were you not one of them who labeled it "project fear" ? If I am wrong I stand corrected.
I live in the EU and I work with people around the world and all of them without exception think no deal is insane and the British have gone crazy. sadly, that woman is deluded, and wanting a no-deal for many will be like a kick in the face. Boris Johnson, Farage, and others will be fine during a hard brexit unlike many who will lose their jobs.
@my playlist shows why men are rejecting marriage which ones be specific. Nissan, Airbus, Jaguar, are scaling back and might move their operations to the EU. Many Banks are moving to the EU. Even Rees Mogg opened an office in Dublin.
No deal. Just leave. Get on with it. No more extensions.
Well done Peter Oborne. It takes a big person to admit they were wrong....
I will never accuse anyone on voting Leave in 2016 considering all the lies and the deceptions. No one knew what we are voting for, not even us, Remainers.
But now we DO know, and now, there are no more excuses for being a Brexiteer. This is Brexit means Brexit, having our cake and eating it, a cake of Unicorn manure. Bon appetit!
I knew what I was voting for
@my playlist shows why men are rejecting marriage
Hello there to you on Cuckoo Land. Why aren't there any Remainers as brain-dead fantasist as you but in the opposite camp, I wonder. I say everyday that most Brexiteers are not racist, far-right or certifiable, but my God, all of them are on the Brexit side.
I want to meet your opposite. The Remainer that wants to stay in the EU because it is the Paradise created by God on Earth, where do I find your counterpart delusional conspiracy theorist.
Excuse me! People in the UK knew the economy implications of Brexit but didnt listen, they voted to leave regardless of dramatic consequences
Thank you for your integrity in this matter Mr Oborne.
He's correct, she's not.
Melissa "high as a" Kite
He is talking facts and reality , she is talking opinion and feelings
Eating popcorn watching the political class doing what Guy Fawkes failed to do over 400 years ago. A bonfire of the political vanities. Delicious!
It has to be a wonderful thing, to be able to laugh while the futures of hundreds of thousands of the working poor balance on a self inflicted, self destructive policy. You must be a treat to have at parties.
@@ajmeyers5661 well, don't take it out on the jester! It is not his, but everybody else's fault.
@@ajmeyers5661 Oh so you now care about "the working poor" are these the "working poor" that have seen their wages stagnate as a consequence of employers having the ability to pay a university educated Polish person £8.00? Take your bullshit somewhere else. The average hourly wage should probably be £11-12 an hour. The EU isn't all just about travel or culture. Big business wants the EU as it gives employers millions of relatively poor people easy access to the job market. Why spend thousands training a young lad from Newcastle to lay bricks when you can have a fully trained Bulgarian tomorrow? You people make me sick. Just because your experience of the EU is positive it must be a universal good? It isn't! Also a nation can't "ponzi scheme" through immigration. We get a million new people living in Britain every 3 years and the BBC said England was going to run out of fresh water at the rate of population increase in 25 years? Scuttle off back to the Guardian!
@@daszieher Isn't that always the case? People like him are so disgusting it makes your skin crawl.
@@ajmeyers5661 either way, he's not the problem. We, the voters, are.
Man: I have changed my mind for these and these facts.
Woman: I haven't seen anyone change their mind and your facts are invalid because feelings.
I like her argument "We don't know how Brexit will be because we haven't had it yet".
It is like standing on the edge of a cliff and claiming "We don't know how deep it is until we jump".
Or how many sharks are down there.
Well, as a European I changed my mind too: I always considered UK to be an integral part of the European project, now I just cannot stand the idea it is staying so long. (The only valid reason for tolerating an extension being Ireland, which is family). Congrats, Brits, you have managed to generate a true Anglophobic feeling in Europe.
BREXIT Cannot happen because of the British border in Ireland...it's that simple
it can. it's just illegal. well it would be the UK breaking the good fridays agreemend, and their parliamens votes which claimed multible times that there will not be a no deal brexit. - But who will call for justice? Seeing ao may MPs lying happily every day and not beeing jailed shows the future.
@@MathieuDeVinois good point well made. But Britain will not renage on an internationally recognised treaty - Good Friday Agreement. It would cost the Union and the DUP will not allow that. Therefore there will be a political compromise which means that the UK will stay in the EU - (call it what you like - withdrawl Agreement?...deal?...doesn't matter what you call it) as a second rate member, economically dis advantaged and disenfranchised within the EU.
some months ago I thought the same. I think the point is near where UK MPs as the EU may think it is easier to just divide with no deal then trying to negotiate a deal. even if its just a name for something which is similar to an EU membership but can be claimed to be a soft Brexit. It's like giving up on both sides or like "better having an shocking ending than an endless shock" ... Well, I do hope there will be a better solution for the people. we'll see.
@@MathieuDeVinois For some reason, I have a hunch that there's going to be another referendum between a soft Brexit and remain. The beautiful irony of that situation, if it came to pass of course, would be the fact that it would be entirely the ERG's fault for not backing May's deal.
People on all sides have been evasive about answering questions honestly to a greater or lessor extent, sometimes because they want to pretend that impossible things are possible or they want to avoid the blame for something. It is clear that the reality is that NI has to stay in the single market and customs union, whatever GB does. No one, including the EU, stated this plainly. They didn't want to be accused of trying to dictate things to the UK and they wanted the UK government to take the blame for failing to come up with alternative arrangements. But anyone who has looked at it closely and isn't a fantasist can see this is the reality. This means that the only choices are hard Brexit for GB and a border in the Irish Sea, or soft Brexit for the whole UK. The DUP would never agree to the former, and the latter is pointless as it doesn't deliver the Brexit promises. If you have to follow the rules without having a vote on them then you have less sovereignty than you do as members of the EU. Holding the referendum without making it clear to people that one of these 2 choices would have to be the destination was grossly irresponsible. But no one wants to admit the hard truth because then they would get blamed for it.
Worse thing we could have done, leave something that protected our rights as workers and everything in life, now the government are gradually without you perhaps noticing changing the rules to make us worse off and making themselves protected.!! True
Brits missread many many things.... 2019...iam sure it's time to be a modern country, at least try it...
Time of colonies is gone....
jozef taliga Yes !!!! Its time to be an Eu colony and part of the Eu empire
@@fintanstack2154 No such thing so please lay off the drugs it will help with the delusions.
Constantly interjecting without adding anything is such a bad look... Impressive magnanimity from Obourne, we need more of that attitude on all sides.
Brexit was to be a complete exit not one leg in and one leg out. I voted for a clean break not something worse than remaining. These politicians are pushing for something that is so bad neither Remain or Brexit voters would accept it. A peoples vote is the answer under thew circumstances. Choices Remain or No Deal which must not be advisory but binding in law!!!!
The world is a connected place, if you want all out ask Mr. Musk to join his car. The point is to find a negotiated middle ground and so far UK does not accept what it can not get and is still unable to come up and agree to sth that is possible.
Ms Kite says,,,you MUST have known this before,,you MUST have known it, Known WHAT ? Were Brexit voters omniscient? How many of the 17,41 million KNEW before the Referendum that The Irish Border/Good Friday Agreement would be the major barrier to Brexit ? Was there ONE who knew? Polls seem to indicate that NOW they know they dont care,,,they still want Brexit whatever the cost, Is Brexit really worth whatever it costs ?
Please for the sake of the country stop brexit
@@mcnuur9708 ???
@Super DuperChap Soldiers died in WW1 so no WW2 could ever happen. Oh, seems people have the right to change their minds after all!
@Super DuperChap Lol. I won't even bother to reply to the idiocy that you regurgitated.
Peter Oborne: facts, statistics, evidence
Melissa Kite: "no, I don't believe...17.4 million people...no, you're wrong...I haven't heard anything"
How is she still in a job?
'Why I changed my mind on leaving EU’ - Peter Oborne (Daily Mail Journalist) "We got a new editor in 2018"
Man : I was for brexit I'm not anymore
woman : Millions voted for brexit, I haven't heard any of them saying they changed their mind.
Duh !? You literally just did !
She has just closed her ears.
Ms Kite brings up this 17.4 Mio people .................. 3 years after the referendum, when is the penny going to drop with people that this number has no further relevance in 2019?
As the live polls I have taken part in are showing 65% to 69% leave I would guess that it's now more than 17.4 million who want to leave, the last poll for deal or WTO was WTO at nearly 60%
Polls in your head don't count, moron.
Typical Brexit debate! One person being reasonable and acknowledging nuance, and the other (the Brexiteer, of course) being obsessive, intransigent, pig-ignorant and just plain staggeringly wrong. Amazing how Brexit has given a platform to cretins.