7 Differences Between A Narcissist and A Sociopath
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- Опубликовано: 11 июн 2024
- There is a lot of confusion between narcissistic and antisocial personality disorder. In this video, we explore the distinct traits and motivations that set these two personality disorders apart. This video will provide you with valuable insights and information on how the intentions of someone with ASPD are different than someone with NPD.
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About Lise Leblanc
Lise Leblanc is a Therapist, Life Coach Practitioner, and Author with over 20 years of experience in therapeutic, educational, and leadership roles.
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DISCLAIMER: THE INFORMATION IN THIS VIDEO IS NOT INTENDED NOR IMPLIED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR PROFESSIONAL ADVICE, DIAGNOSIS OR TREATMENT. Lise Leblanc does not provide personalized psychological, health, or legal advice. Any information or responses provided on RUclips are general and hypothetical, not individualized. This content is for informational purposes only and viewers should verify primary sources and/or seek professional services. Narratives about clients are heavily modified to protect their identities, using blurred details to teach and reassure without revealing private information about individuals.
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DISCLAIMER: THIS IS FOR INFORMATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE FOR MENTAL HEALTH CARE.
Introduction (0:00)
1: Predatory vs Parasitic (0:40)
2: Motivations (2:26)
3: Lack of Empathy (3:56)
4: Accountability (5:20)
5: Superficial Charm (6:11)
6: Future Faking (7:21)
7: Emotional Manipulation (8:46)
The Bottom Line (10:40)
#NPD #covertnarcissist #narcissist #narcissism #narcissistic #narcissists
My ex’s behavior wrapped the whole cluster B. It was like dealing with different people all the time. Pretty scary actually.
Yes !
Exactly !
Same experience here!
How is that possible?
I noticed my narc ex gf had different handwriting on the same page she would write on. Some of it would look like a 12 or 13 year old wrote it, other sections would look like an adult wrote it.
My too x wife
Yep. imo... a lot are Dark Triad. After no contact clarity you think, that ordeal was highly toxic and potentially deadly.
I used to say to my narc ex "your evil twin was out last night", as it was like dealing with a whole different personality! 😂
"Don't listen to their words, look at how they condition you to submit." This - 💯
Now that the parenting is done and she has a large sum of money from her uncle, my ex lost interest in me. I divorced her, but she was planning on leaving way in advance. NPD all the way and I'll need years to recover.
Similar story, 😢
It takes years. But what can help is to focus on you and rebuilding yourself. What they did wasn't personal although it sure felt like it. It wasn't about you, purely was about who they are. Not easy..
That could also just be monkey branching. Not saying that that's any better or changes who's right or wrong, but with the little context you've given that's not enough to call it NPD. "Don't listen to their words, but to their actions" is a phrase that fits women in general by default.
I’ve seen the mentality (from at least one self-identified sociopath) that, in a nutshell, they don’t care what others think of them and to do so is stupid.
But for narcissism, caring what other people think is kind of the point.
0:42 1. Predator vs. Parasite
2:25 2. Motivations
3:55 3. Lack of Empathy
5:20 4. Accountability
6:12 5. Superficial Charm
7:20 6. Future Faking
8:45 7. Level of Emotional Manipulation
This stuff is so hard to deal with thanks for this public service
My younger sister is a nasty mix of sociopath/narcissist. I've been her target since she was 6 months old! She beat me up to get her way and got a kick out of it. She would lie to my parents about me and sic them onto me like they were her dogs. She committed character assassination and then she assumed my identity. Her entire life is based on lies, and she managed to set up most of my family against me. I broke contact with her about 10 years ago, learned about narcissism, grew a spine, learned to set healthy boundaries and became successful in my work. Then my father got seriously ill, and because of the care situation I had to have low key contact with her. This lasted for about 2 years until my father died. During that time she learned that her tactics didn't work on me anymore, and at several occasions I've seen her 'WTF just happened ' face when she realized she couldn't control me anymore. After that she did everything she could to pit my father against me, egging him to erase me from his will, and denied me saying the final goodbye to my dad. That and lots more. After the funeral dealings were over she started love bombing me. She must have felt that I was going to break contact. When I broke contact she tried to gaslight me, and sent her flying monkeys to get me to come back. I remained silent and blocked her on all (social media) channels. Finally peace. She's still in my head at times, and Im still recovering from the damage that was done, but im getting there. Im happy with myself and my life. 😊
I dated a woman who is exactly like your sister...she used her beauty and manipulation to not only get away with physically abusing me over several months...but she convinced the police and courts that I had abused HER...!!...I was stupid...for falling for her tricks..but in no way did I lay a hand on her...never the less...I had to serve 9 months in jail...and looked like a woman abuser in the eyes of my extremely small town in NJ where I lived for over 40 years since age 7...I may have lost that small battle..but I still have my kids...my integrity and my writing has finally taken off..I'm currently editing my opus...my masterpiece getting it ready for the world...my relationships with my children has never been better...and she is still a miserable alcoholic whore...I can't say that her downfall makes me happy...I'll just say that the universes seeks the most likely outcome....
What a freaking exaggeration, and 11 hyperbolic ignorant people have agreed with you. smh No 6 month old infant is targeting people. ffs
Now, do I believe she beat you up? Yes
Do I believe she would lie to your parents? Yes
Do I believe she would "sic" your parents on you? No. That is SOLELY your parents' fault for being abusive.
Do I believe she engaged in character assassination? Yes
Do I believe she assumed your identity? Yep
Do I believe her life is based on lies? Yep
Do I believe she was able to manipulate most of your family to turn against you? Yep, and they're at fault for not paying attention and protecting you.
Do I believe a 6 month old infant began targeting you??? No freaking way, not even if hell froze over would I believe that. A 6 month old LACK THE NEUROLOGICAL STRUCTURE to even try and do that. smh
You should really be embarrassed for even suggesting that statement, but I believe she did the rest of it from age 4 onward, when she actually possessed the neural physiology to begin doing these things.
Heart goes out to you… all the best in your life 💥
Wow.. I can retaliate. Best of luck to you ❤
Honestly, my narc can switch between these with ease. The lines get further blurred when she drinks.
This makes 100% sense. I think my narc ex gf is the same.
“My narc” you use this statement as if they are an extension of yourself…. Maybe you’re the narc.
@@waykthufukup Maybe you are.
@@waykthufukup Believe me, I've done a lot of self-reflection and fully own the fact I display some of the narc tendencies. It's maddening because while I try to work on myself, I can see the traits clearly in my wife.
As said in Matthew: First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye.
Well, sociopaths can have signs of narcissism, so might be any of it.
One skilfully slipped into my life unnoticed. They truly are the Devil incarnate. Four long years to full recovery but I can now smell whatever level of that disordered BS coming my way at a 1000 yards.
Yup...even upwind!
Same here.
I pretend to not notice, him or her, and quietly slip out of their wake of destruction.
Only 4 years? Wow, that's fast!! Usually PTSD takes no less than 7 years, but 10 year recovery is the average.
Trust me, if you met the devil incarnate, no way you'd walk away without PTSD, and no one recovers from PTSD in 4 years, except maybe a narcissist.
A father with 'sociopath' traits and a sister with 'narcissistic' traits. This video explains so much about the reason for the dysfunction and chaos in our family. Very enlightening.
I always thought my ex was a narcissist, but according to this, he was a full-blown sociopath! 😐
The difference is so subtle but so distinctive. Thanks Lise for excellent summary!
I've called my ex both: Narcissist and Sociopath. I acknowledge that it's wrong for me to label and diagnose someone, but it's equally wrong to treat someone in such a way without remorse. It's what I call him from stopping myself going crazy; it sobers my mind while I try to unravel how and why I ignored all the red flags.
I wouldn't give yourself such a hard time. None of us are officially diagnosing anyone. They just make us feel that way. Labelling what you see to make sense of what you've been going through is rational. Let's face it we have to make judgments all the time to get through life. You can't cross a road without making a judgment. If we'd have done that sooner, we wouldn't have ignored so many red flags. Pretending something isn't what it is, doesn't actually change it from being that thing. Though I'd never pick on anyone for either condition, I used to react a lot when in an abusive situation near the end. I was so dysregulated I thought I was going mad & part of the reason I think is because I couldn't make sense of it or them until I found the correct label. Abuse is so much worse than pointing it out & labelling the cause.
Calling a narcissist a narcissist is like pouring fuel on fire.
@@dean8705 to their face it can be yeh. But also when reacting to abuse it happens doesn't it? We can only take so much before we snap. I called out the person who abused me as a sociopath & she actually agreed. She said she'd only pretended to like me because she enjoyed playing with peoples emotions. I'm autistic & so was an easy target. I think that did my head in more for a while. It wasn't as bad as when I was being abused & had no label to make sense of it though.
@@sallybaddeley6060 wow I'm sorry to hear that. That was reactive abuse and yeah it's normal. I called out managers and bouncers from a bar online saying they were narcissists. Totally backfired. I am the villain and to blame. It's why directly confronting them turns to them creating a triangulation then playing a victim.
@@dean8705 I'm sorry that happened to you too. It doesn't make you a bad person because they used your reaction though. They do tend to triangulate & play the victim don't they? I think they would whatever we did, I was the villain at the end of our relationship, just like with everyone else she mistreated. People can't always see it for what it is either until they're at the receiving end. I look back at the past relationships of the person who abused me & it's obvious she was abusing them too, but only in hindsight. I hope you're away from that situation now. I've learned that after a while it really does become old news & any onlookers forget about us though, where as they're still in similar situations playing the victim with the next person or person after. I think a big part of the reason a lot of people get away with it is because there's a revolving door of new people, if people stick around for long enough they eventually see the patterns.
First, thanks for making this video. Many moons ago I was involved in a relationship with a person who has a charismatic sociopathic personality. At first I was lured to move way too fast in the relationship with love bombing tactics. I felt overwhelmed by such level of intensity, which I was not used to relate with people in that manner. The relationship lasted only two years, as the red flags were too much to ignore.
Once, due to a situation within a group we both were involved, he went to therapy to manage the aftermath of the situation. The therapist gave him a personality test. I felt she perceived something in his behavior that were red flags. The results pointed to sociopathic tendencies. After that he stopped going to therapy, because he KNEW the therapist was far sighted.
Needless to say, I started to distance myself from him. To be honest, I felt unsafe around him. Even scared in some instances. Glad I moved on from that relationship very fast.
I know this may be a woo woo statement, but our innate survival instincts and intuition surface when there's a threat to our well being and safety.
That’s an narcissist what you just described. Not a sociopath….Sigh when you people are going to learn about ASPD…..
Anti-Social and Narcicisst are not mutually exclusive. You dont have to decide. It often co-occurs. Thats why its grouped together as Cluster B.
Psychopathy is mutually exclusive with NPD. Cannot be both. Egocentric vs egomanicial. Callous- unemotional vs dramatic-desperate. Psychopathy is a developmental disorder with consistent findings of small amygdala
That toxic combo platter is a a malignant narcissist...the worst of both worlds.
I forgive them and close the door to contact.
Thank you so very much for sharing your knowledge, i believe you are saving a good many people by doing so... just as g.i. joe taught - knowing is half the battle! God bless you Lise 🙏 ♥️ ☺️
Anyone who uses GI Joe references is a friend of mine...!!!
You are so knowledgeable and it really helps. Thank you
I started out reading and finding out about covert narcissist females. But as I progress through my divorce and child custody issues, i have seen a cold calculated opportunistic female deceiving the Judge and her own legal team. She harms our child just to get me to break. She is dead inside. I am ashamed and disgusted that I ever married her. But even that was because she threatened to kill herself. So, I wonder if sociopath is more applicable. She was also raised in a cult. So its very psychologically complicated. I'm fighting her in court for my son. I was an amazing husband for 10 years, apparently. Even though she withheld intimacy and emotionally coerced me to do many things I never would have rationally done. As soon as I said I had enough of her withholding and coldness, she began a massive comprehensive smear campaign. Flat out lying. Sometimes taking 10% truth and mix with 90% lies. Luckily my immediate family knew she was bad. But she got one of my extended family to beleiwve her.
A long journey for me to finding about codependent personality. Need to be needed. Knight in shining Armour. I'm working on that mess.
This is such an accurate description of both..thank you!!
I love how you organize and break down the information in your videos. Thank you!!!
I can see how the information in the video can be misconstrued for simple common situations in relationships. I think more emphasis on acknowledging that its repeated behaviors are an issue not just because your girlfriend/boyfriend demanded something one time and wouldn't let it go doesn't make them a bad person/narcissist. Relationships are way more complex and deeper then that. Especially starting out in a new relationship there needs to be a reasonable amount of slack because you don't know each other. So I wish there was more emphasis on the difference between the two.
I get that the categories are distinct, and why. I just don't know how anyone could diagnose any of the people I have known who demonstrate these behaviors because sometimes their behaviors seem more narcissistic and other times their behaviors seem more sociopathic. Maybe like someone else suggested here, these are "dark triad" or "dark tetrad" people. Exhausting, whatever you call them.
There ain't no fixing them, that is for certain.
Untrue. Just takes immense work and guidance. Ive done it
Good one. Accurate and necessary as nothing overlap a lot.
Thank you, give me a lot more insight into psychopath and the narcissist. I know I will be helpful dealing with these people. Thank you
Brilliant work. Thank you for your helpful contribution. This video is very well done. Concise. Useful. Accurate. Very well delivered.
Thank you Lise
Another succinct video! So accurate!
Can someone be both? I mean, I know that they can but some of the motivations seem diametrically opposed. for instance, a narcissist cares very much how other people view them, where as a sociopath doesn’t seem to care at all what other people think. The more I learn, the more I think my mother was a sociopath rather than a narcissist. But she also seemed to have some sort of delusions of being a deity. It is so very hard to know what other people are thinking; especially when they are actively trying to hide it .
I needed that. Thank you!
Excellent content 👏👏👏
I feel like I’ve been hunted and sucked dry.
Excellent, informative as always, Lise. Halfway to 200k 🎉🎉
Thank you for the clarifications and descriptions. So well put!! Excellent!
Thanks a lot, Lise, the picture gets clearer every day!
#6 & #7 sound EXACTLY like my ex daughter in law who broke my youngest sons Heart!
This was the best explanation I have ever heard. Thank you for being so clear and thorough. ❤
I always appreciate your analysis and explanations!
This was the best explanation on RUclips I have seen in over 2 years of trying to figure out what happened to me with my narcissistic ex -wife. Thank you very much for helping me understand this. This was such a an aha moment for me to listen to this.
Both lack empathy, and may have charm.
Narcissists are parasites who seek admiration and validation.
Sociopaths are predators who stop at nothing to get what they want.
Sociopaths are more dangerous and more likely to commit violent crimes.
These are my notes. I've often wondered about the difference.
That was amazing...thank you
Great job😊❤
Thank you Lisa you've been a blessing to me
Hello Lise!
thanks for bringing this up..
I like to ask more about this..
may I ask you to reply as our family and relatives are in a war
of how narcissists and sociopathic people set it off..
I hope you can help me differentiate between them::
In considering the spectrum of antisocial personality disorders, it is pertinent to delve into the nuanced distinctions among sociopathy, psychopathy, and narcissism, particularly in relation to the propensity for criminal behavior. To what extent does the sociopath traverse the threshold of acceptability, and under what circumstances do they become motivated to perpetrate crimes? Similarly, what factors contribute to the likelihood of a narcissist engaging in criminal acts? Moreover, amidst the intricate interplay of these personality disorders, how can one effectively discern the psychopath's inclination towards inflicting harm and deriving satisfaction from inducing distress, vis-à-vis the narcissist's proclivity for causing pain and asserting dominance? In essence, are these manifestations all convergent upon the creation of suffering in others, or are there distinct motivators and behavioural patterns delineating the sociopathic, psychopathic, and narcissistic domains?
please eloborate and if possible add a video comparing when the narcissist is also a psychopath or sociopath... thank you
Thank you, Lise , for explaining the differences. Unfortunately, my sister is both a narcissistic and a sociopath. She also can be violent in her rages, so I think psychopathy might need to be added to the mix.
I was under the impression that, like brandy and cognac, not all narcissists are sociopaths, but all sociopaths are narcissists. Also keeping in mind that both anomalies are spectrum disorders. In a century or two, we may have numerical parameters for all these disorders that will help strip away the mysteries that still confuse the general public and confound the legal system.
How dare you label my friends & family this way and then talk about them! 😡(sarcasm ;-) I found this show to be condensed, detailed and informative. Thank you.
LL is my Jennifer Melfi.
Nice, I think I know which column I'm in
I won the lottery! I got a sociopathic narcissist or a narcissistic sociopath 😅
😬not the kind of jackpot you want to “win”
😂 girl they are all nuts 😂
You know that's right!
They know exactly what they’re doing.
Women are narcissistic by nature - low self esteem, exploitative, emotionally immature, looking for high emotions, admiration, attention, validation, women lie, future faking/carrot dangling - you marry but they divorce you once they get bored etc. they are biologically and evolutionary predisposed to narcissism.
My ex definitely sounds like a sociopath and a narcissist
Sociopaths are more dangerous than narcissists.
My ex is BOTH. Its very unfortunate but she definitely is.
I think the correct term is ‘tossser’.. it’s what we call them in Australia
Can someone be both?… or have both tendencies?…
And ONE PERSON can carry both personality traits and use them TO THEIR PREDATORY advantage.
They are users if you hang around long enough , it may be that in the external the arrangements are 50-50 % , but on some level theyre banking on using others so they become tired and they can have control, which is why its better to be aware of their energy detach , communicate for my needs and boundaries and ofcourse detachh, and find safer people and places that can help me vent out if I need to get anything out from that exchange , and where I can share my true self , and meet my needs for connection. Im worth it in a good way were worth it . I can try to meet whatever need I had around that narc in other way , even if it was business related, its just better to speak my truth , and then disengage safe guard my energy and boundaries and use it to advocate for my self in healthy ways and to connect with safe people im worth it in a good way were worth it . Its good to always detach from users, and have selfcompassion, healthy boundaries and choose available people instead and safe places where I can share my true self and get my needs for connection met im worth it in good way were worth it .Cheers ,
I never cried so much over a fake person. No one ever was able to work their way into my life and destroy me like my ex. Found out he is actually one of these...
Doesn't matter to the receiver. Let's talk about Possession Trance Disorder.
What does it mean scoring 24/42 on MMPI and on the diagnostic test 100% Sociopath, 97%ASPD, 94% Narsistic, 70% Schitzoid?
Seems to me there's a lot of overlap in the finished product regardless of the differences between sociopaths and narrcisists.
What type does these things but acts really friendly most of the time but constantly confuzed along with being a social butterfly who always has to know all truths or have similar to everything someone talks about. Goes between social and non social depending on the day or moment. Could this be bpd?
Im finally Free to be me.
A narcissist uses a feather, the sociopath uses the whole chicken.
Great, so narcs are using us as "oxygen tanks" by giving their compliments, admirations and etc.
After hearing you explain these two im wondering if he is a sociopath instead of a narcissist!:/
Sociopath isn’t a diagnosis
Neither is narcissist. They are both personality types. She did say at the begging that she was on about ASPD and NPD, but would call them sociopath's & narcissist's for clarity. The difference between NPD and Narcissist is the same as the difference between ASPD and sociopath. The only difference being an official diagnosis that usually happens when the person admits they have an issue and gets assessed.
Also sociopaths often lacks hygiene they are so careless about others (and themselves )that they don't even bother to take regular showers.
I haven't witnessed that at all.
....
😅😅😅😅😊
I wonder which is Meghan Markle. I think she’s both, alternating.
She's a narcissist. She's more of a big ego tho just imo
My sister meets and exceeded predatory and parasitic ghoul.. My eldest brother the golden child flying monkey
It's not either/or...malignant narcissists manage to cover all the bases, with a giant dose of Machavellian sadism for good measure.
❤💯
We love Lisa ❤❤❤❤🎉🎉🎉😂😂😂😮😢😅😊
What is missing, in my experience, is a third group. Namely, gifted people with empathy, who are quickly assigned to the other two groups by experts as soon as they share their incredible experiences with these two. There is a blind spot in the education of psychiatrists.
What do you mean, gifted?
@@krillyourself420 I mean someone who sees, hears and can do too much, there are natural mortal enemies of these sick creatures, but the mere allegation that a colleague at work had begun to sabotage or staged backstabbing attacks on life and limb that would have passed for an accident is enough to make most doctors consider paranoid schizoprenia. Or other disturbances. Although it should be clear that this is exactly the consequence when the two mentally ill parties come across someone who can be dangerous to them.
@@krillyourself420 Someone who does not tolerate lies, manipulation for example, all those who make life difficult for them are in danger of being portrayed as paranoid and sick by psychiatrists, because they often do not even have the extent of malice in their consciousness.
That`s the biggest problem....naiv experts..
But thats not what this video is about because what you decribe are good traits and these people dont have any.
@@krillyourself420 As an example, you're working with a pathological narcissist and at some point he starts his shit because he can't beat you any other way because you're better at everything. If you end up with severe depression and post-traumatic stress disorder at the psychodoctor and tell him that, then suddenly you are the narcissist and your CV is simply rewritten by the doctor. You won't be believed in anything you've said, except that you think you've been better at everything and that's why someone was very angry with you. Which is probably what narcissists claim when they are fired by the boss. Which wasn't the case with me, but later with the asshole when he took it too far.
Anyway, I want to say, I've been doing this shit with the experts for 10 years now and they've just rewritten my entire life to fit their diagnosis. And there must have been something wrong at the university.
This is crazy! 🤪 lol. Not to mention absolutely exhausting.
How in the world are these individuals able to work every situation they are in to their favor? Never mind; I don’t wanna know. I cannot imagine how exhausting, time consuming, and maddening this has got to be to live like this. It’s got to be the most fascinating, mind boggling, and seriously warped way to exist in the world. We tend to view others as how we interact with others ourselves. These individuals have a totally different way of viewing themselves and the world around them bc they are parasitic and predatory, so I guess you’ve got to have that same mindset to understand how and why they function the way they do. I just want to say to them, “Woooah there turbo tiger! Simmer down! We’re not in the dark ages anymore-there’s no need to be on the hunt and behave in this way! You can calm down already!” sheesh! 🤦🏼♀️
Both can't have one and not the other
Me again. Is there any personality type, with low empathy, that is not malignant or harmful to others. I know that those with autism have little empathy for others…
Borderlines fit that description of sociopaths especially the victim card.
🎨🎨🩷🩷🩷🩷🩷🖌🖌
I am sorry I cannot possibly agree that there’s any difference between the two they have the exact same characteristics
Sociopaths & narcissists are both sadistic.
In real life, therapists call them antisocials.
I pity the narcissist 😂
Factor-2 Antisocial Personality Disorder *is* Narcissism!
It is the SAME brain physiology!!!
Lise,
I’m going to have to disagree with the DSM model being taught in this video.
I'm convinced that the DSM model is not only COMPLETELY WRONG.
It is DANGEROUSLY wrong.
Please give some thought to this critique because I genuinely believe it to be extremely important to saving the lives of countless innocents that we correct this error. If you find it to be plausible, please share with the appropriate individuals for their consideration.
Perhaps because I lied to myself about the true nature of these metaphorical komodo dragons (empathy lacking humans) for so long and paid such a big price for that choice to lie to myself, I am more intensely driven than most to develop a flawless predictive model to (1) correctly identify these demons, (2) the root cause of their individual pathologies, (3) where they lie on the spectrum of the pathology and (4) how to use the accurate and precise understanding of their wiring to predict their movements with accuracy and precision.
Please do not take any of this personally. This fight is between me and the DSM authors.
I am hyper-vigilant to even the smallest misprediction in the model that guides our understanding of these monsters because I know how much harm can be caused to innocents if we are guided by incorrect beliefs (or beliefs which have not been developed to a sufficiently deep level of understanding) when dealing with them.
Context: I have spent much time in recent months watching videos of "sociopaths" openly celebrating the murder of innocent children on X.
Also, please consider watching, on Dr. John Campbell's RUclips channel, his recent interviews with Dr. Angus Dalgleish. The "medical intervention" forced on the people by governments "exhausts t-cells". Each new booster serves to more fully "exhaust t-cells". Please fully comprehend what this means.
I know this is terrifying, but the precise CAUSE of the brain physiology driving the behavior of those who behave in the fashion must be correctly understood. We call them sociopaths. I know it is terrifying to consider that these Type-2 sociopaths are, in reality, narcissists. However, if that is indeed the case, we would be morally responsible for the consequences of turning away from this uncomfortable truth.
I feel strongly morally compelled to do what I can to protect the innocents from the harm that is being done. I genuinely believe these horrible things are happening because good people lack the necessary moral courage to turn towards deeply uncomfortable truths about the true origins of evil and to make the difficult sacrifices that are necessary in order to protect the children of God from these demons. When people are more afraid of the truth than they are of the consequences of avoiding the truth, then demons are allowed to seize control of our world.
DSM model vs neuroscience-based model
Owing to my own experience in relationships with people who *seem* to have elements of BOTH narcissism and Factor-2 sociopathy,
- sometimes being vulnerable and seeking supply and, at other times, being ruthless and seeking to kill - and having spent many years developing a neuroscience-based model to understand these creatures and I am CERTAIN that the DSM is WRONG.
In my estimation, the DSM model of the 2 personality types presented, in this video, to differentiate narcissists from sociopaths is probably accurate enough to help guide most good people to make good decisions with respect to these 2 DSM personality types 99% percent of the time. As such, this is a very valuable video for 99% of those situations.
However, I believe there is a deeper, more disturbing truth that needs to be considered because true sociopaths can do extraordinarily unfathomable harm and we have a moral duty to understand them as accurately as we can in order to protect the innocent from them to the best of our abilities.
The problem with the DSM model:
The problem with comparing DSM Narcissistic Personality Disorder to DSM AntiSocial Personality Disorder (ASPD) AKA "sociopaths" is that Factor-1 sociopaths (AKA psychopaths) are COMPLETELY DIFFERENT then Factor-2 sociopaths.
They are so different, in fact, that one should seriously question the motivations of the DSM authors for putting them together into the same category.
Hypothesis: Factor-2 sociopaths are high-end-of-nacissism-spectrum covert narcissists
I have a very high degree of certainty that Factor-2 sociopaths are, in reality, narcissists. i.e. I believe that Factor-2 sociopaths have the EXACT SAME brain physiology as any other narcissist save for the fact that they are higher on the narcissism spectrum.
Structure of the argument:
In part 1, I will state why I believe that Factor 2 sociopaths are narcissists.
In part 2, I will use the 7 points offered by the video to differentiate narcissism from sociopathy to illustrate WHY, if you compare narcissism to ONLY "Factor-2" sociopaths, I believe they are exactly the same.
Part 1: Why do I believe that Factor-2 sociopaths are high-end-of-nacissism-spectrum covert narcissists
In a nutshell, the heritable brain physiology for both narcissism and psychopathy are well understood.
The heritable brain physiology for both narcissism and psychopathy accurately predicts
(1) why a conscience does not emerge in either the narcissist of the psychopath (the reasons are different)
(2) why the narcissist and the psychopath behave so differently from each other
(3) why the narcissist and the psychopath end up at opposite ends of the social hierarchy.
(4) why the neuroscience-based model predicts covert narcissists (from the high end of the narcissism spectrum) to be the apex predator (AKA Type-2 sociopath)
Re: (1) why a conscience does not emerge in either the narcissist of the psychopath (the reasons are different)
The neuroscience-based model predicts that the narcissists who are highest on the spectrum but are also well camouflaged should occupy the very top positions of the social hierarchy. In my assessment, this is exactly the position occupied by the Factor-2 sociopaths.
When a model accurately predicts sensory experience in this fashion, we should give consideration to the possibility that the model might be correct and investigate further to either invalidate the hypothesis or consider adopting it.
Factor 2 sociopaths ARE the apex intraspecies predator. They are simply narcissists who are at the high end of the narcissist spectrum but are also well camouflaged.
My model (neuroscience is a superior predictor than the DSM)
Currently, I am only aware of 2 dangerous brain physiologies:
Narcissism & Psychopathy.
Narcissists have a lack of gray matter in several areas - especially in the left anterior insula.
This seems to be responsible for their inability to experience empathy.
This brain physiology seems to be heritable.
SOURCE:
Live Science: Narcissists' Lack of Empathy Detected in Brain Scans (2013-06-24)
(also available on web dot archive dot org)
Psychopaths have a smaller and shaping amygdala with almost no connectivity to the ventromedial prefrontal cortex.
This is responsible for their inability to experience strong pain signals.
This brian physiology is known to be heritable.
SOURCE:
RUclips channel: Gnosis Documentaries
Title: Psychopaths: The most dangerous people
Date: 2018-01-08
Speaker: Professor Joshua Buckholtz, Harvard University
search: RUclips: Psychopaths: The most dangerous people
How, precisely, do each of these brain physiologies give rise to the observed behavior of the non-emergence of conscience to restrain unskillful behavior?
To answer this, we need to understand how a conscience emerges.
Both (1) empathy and (2) strong pain signals are necessary for the emergence of a conscience to restrain our unskillful behavior.
Why is this?
Because our conscience emerges slowly in response to our life experiences, thusly:
When we harm others, our (1) empathy forces us to feel their pain, as if it were our own
and our (2) strong pain signals make us feel that pain intensely.
It is the combination of BOTH (1) strong empathy AND (2) strong pain signals that locks us into the unrelenting intensity of the pain of guilt which creates the conditions for the emergence of the resolve to (1) make amends and (2) resolve to never harm anyone in that fashion again.
Our "conscience" emerges in this fashion.
True or false?
We need both (1) strong empathy AND (2) strong pain signals for a conscience to emerge?
True or false?
With both present, we need to simply disobey one of the various prohibitions against seeking to gain at the expense of our neighbor in order for the inescapable process of conscience emergence to arise.
There is nothing we can do to prevent this.
We were selected by natural selection BECAUSE a conscience arises in us in this fashion.
However, a conscience NEVER emerges in a narcissist.
Why is this?
Because they lack the prerequisite of empathy.
Re: (2) why the narcissist and the psychopath behave so differently from each other
We know that psychopaths have severe learning disabilities which prevent them from rising to the top of the dominance hierarchy.
Why is this?
Because strong pain signals are necessary for learning.
We cannot correct the errors in our sensory motor predictive model unless we can HEAR the signal which notifies us that we have predicted sensory experience incorrectly. The signal must persist relentlessly forcing us to ruminate upon the experience until we have made the necessary correction in the predictive model.
The inability of psychopaths to experience strong pain signals makes them oblivious to the mistakes they are making. It is very difficult for them to learn from their experiences.
Narcissists do not have this problem AT ALL.
They can learn plenty from their experiences and construct highly elaborate sensory motor predictive models to guide their movements through sensory experience.
Whereas conscience-possessing people build such models with conflicting aims owing to the inner civil war between good and evil between them, narcissists have no such conflict. 100% of their cognitive power is devoted to constructing models that will enable them to gain at the expense of their neighbors.
Re: (3) why the narcissist and the psychopath end up at opposite ends of the social hierarchy.
In a nutshell, the learning disability of the psychopath gives the narcissist an insurmountable competitive advantage in the zero-sum game.
They are simply smarter.
In addition to superior ability to predict sensory experience, the covert narcissist is way better better camouflaged. A psychopath, owing to his inability to feel pain, can neither read the subtle social cues of others nor hide his fearlessness. His odd behavior makes him stand out like a sore thumb. A covert narcissist, on the other hand, has the brain physiology to both read social cues and camouflage himself very well.
The neuroscience-based model predicts that covert narcissists are the superior zero-sum game player. In the zero-sum game of the social hierarchy, the absence of a conscience is a competitive advantage. The higher on the narcissism spectrum you are, the more ruthless you are willing to be, and the higher you will advance at the expense of others in the social hierarchy.
Re: (4) why the neuroscience-based model predicts covert narcissists (from the high end of the narcissism spectrum) to be the apex predator
Anyone who has spent decades in the corporate world will immediately recognize the pattern. The most moral people tend to end up near the bottom of the organizational hierarchy because they are not willing to seek to gain at the expense of other good people. The least moral people tend to end up at the very top. And the middle managers tend to end up being somewhere between the 2 extremes on the narcissism spectrum. Factor-1 sociopaths (AKA psychopaths), of course, don't even exist in the corporate world. They are not smart enough.
So the neuroscience-based model PREDICTS that covert narcissists on the high-end of the narcissism spectrum are the apex predators.
But these people are exactly the ones whom we are calling Type-2 sociopaths.
That's because Type-2 sociopaths ARE narcissists.
If they are not?
What is the mysterious 3rd brain physiology which nobody knows about?
How is that brain physiology different from that of the covert narcissist on the high-end of the narcissism spectrum?
This neuroscience-based model accurately predicts sensory experience BETTER than the DSM model.
Whereas psychopaths are seemingly over-represented in prisons, narcissists are seemingly over-represented in ivy league universities, managerial positions and corporate board rooms.
Whereas the DSM model leaves us lost in confusion and uncertain about how to fit individuals into arbitrary categories, the neuroscience-based model offers a crystal clear understanding of exactly where empathy challenged people fit.
If we know (1) which of these 2 brain physiologies they have and (2) where they fit on the spectrum of each, we can accurately predict their behavior with a very high level of certainty.
part 2: 7 points comparing the narcissist to the factor 2 sociopath
It’s true that, if we viewed sensory experience through the lens of the DSM model of these two disorders, one might paint a picture exactly as described in this video.
Re: The 7 examples given in the video
#1: predatory vs parasitic
#2: motivation
#3: Lack of empathy
#4: accountability
#5: superficial charm
#6: false promises, and future faking
#7: level of emotional manipulation
2 underlying trait differences between narcissists and sociopaths in the video
In my estimation, there are 2 underlying trait differences which the 7 examples in the video are calling attention to.
The examples just serve to illustrate how we might notice these 2 ideas in practice in the behavior of the individual.
trait #1: vulnerability
claim:
the narcissist is more vulnerable than the sociopath;
this might be due to the fact that they have at least *some* cognitive empathy
trait #2: how they orient towards you owing to their vulnerability
claim:
the narcissist's fragile ego wants validation from you;
the sociopath does not;
if you have something they want, they may take it
If you go through each of the 7 examples given, they seem to serve to guide us in noticing these 2 differentiating traits differences.
For example, "parasitic" and "predatory" might be the labels we choose to describe how these 2 types of komodo dragons orient themselves to you differently.
However, as previously stated, I have personally experienced a relationship with more than 1 individual who, depending on the circumstances, would shift between these 2 "personality types".
(If a single individual can behave as different personality types at different times, that evidence alone is enough to compel us to call attention to the incredibly weak predictive power of the DSM model.
The DSM should be abandoned for its reliance on "personality types" defined by "diagnostic criteria" of traits designed by a committee to explain behavior.
This process is easily corruptible. No accurate scientific model of reality was EVER discovered by a committee. On the contrary, such committees serve to stifle scientific progress.
Neuroscience is a FAR more reliable foundation to predict the behavior of these individuals.
Given the potentially serious consequences of predicting the behavior of these individuals incorrectly, we should place our faith more strongly in neuroscience than on the DSM.)
Let's focus on these 2 core trait differences (vulnerability and orientation) and consider how they contrast with the neuroscience-based hypothesis that the Factor-2 sociopath is merely a narcissist on the high end of the spectrum.
Re: trait #1: vulnerability (owing to some empathy)
Notice how the claim that the narcissist has at least *some* cognitive empathy is *consistent* with the neuroscience-based hypothesis.
A narcissist who is higher on the spectrum will have LESS gray matter and therefore LESS empathy.
We can "call" them a Factor-2 sociopath, but there is no evidence that a 3rd brain physiology exists.
Re: trait #2: different orientation (owing to different vulnerability)
Secondly, on the surface it might *seem* like these are 2 different types of people, but that only because we are basing our assessment of them on behaviors which we have observed?
If you changed the environment, would these individuals behave very differently?
Have you ever heard the expression "crisis reveals character"?
Narcissist => Sociopath
What happens when such a komodo dragon, with no ability to use empathy to calm their nervous system, reaches their pain threshold?
Narcissistic Rage.
The narcissistic rage will usually have its desired effect of shocking people into backing down. This allows the narcissist to pull back from the brink.
However, please think about THIS:
What happens when the narcissistic rage ceases to have its desired effect?
Question: Why does this matter?
Who cares if a Factor-2 sociopath is really a high spectrum covert narcissist?
It's an interesting hypothesis, but why should I CARE?
You should CARE because your fate and the fate of everyone you care about depends upon you CARING.
Why is this?
All moral humans should look upon a situation where an entire people are cheering on the genocide of another people and stop to ask the question: WHY?
We might tell ourselves: "They are brainwashed".
But that is a LIE. We know, in our hearts, that there is no amount of brainwashing on earth that could compel good people to support genocide. So WHY do they do it? What has happened to their society?
Is this the same phenomenon of civilizational collapse that has happened MANY times before throughout history?
From the bronze age collapse, to Sodom & Gomorrah, to the fall of the Roman empire, the mass killing of World War 1 & 2?
Can ALL of this be accurately explained by the growth of narcissism in the gene pool such that narcissism completely destroys a civilization?
I believe that is EXACTLY what is happening.
Part of the reason we are afraid to admit the truth that Factor-2 sociopaths are really just narcissists, is because we are all hard-wired by millions of years of evolution in the zero-sum game environment of pre-civilization to be sexually attracted to narcissists.
Since the birth of civilization, a few thousand years ago, natural selection has favored the positive-sum game player, but sexual selection still favors the zero-sum game player. This is why porn heavily utilizes Satanic themes.
Is our failure, as a species, to overcome our own carnal compulsion to mate with zero-sum game players the reason for the emergence of this evil?
Is our failure, as a species, to overcome our own carnal compulsion to mate with zero-sum game players the reason why our species will likely destroy itself in World War 3?
Question: Why does this matter?
Who cares if a Factor-2 sociopath is really a high spectrum covert narcissist?
It's an interesting hypothesis, but why should I CARE?
You should CARE because your fate and the fate of everyone you care about depends upon you CARING.
Why is this?
All moral humans should look upon a situation where an entire people are cheering on the genocide of another people and stop to ask the question: WHY?
We might tell ourselves: "They are brainwashed".
But that is a LIE. We know, in our hearts, that there is no amount of brainwashing on earth that could compel good people to support genocide. So WHY do they do it? What has happened to their society?
Is this the same phenomenon of civilizational collapse that has happened MANY times before throughout history?
From the bronze age collapse, to Sodom & Gomorrah, to the fall of the Roman empire, the mass killing of World War 1 & 2?
Can ALL of this be accurately explained by the growth of narcissism in the gene pool such that narcissism completely destroys a civilization?
I believe that is EXACTLY what is happening.
Part of the reason we are afraid to admit the truth that Factor-2 sociopaths are really just narcissists, is because we are all hard-wired by millions of years of evolution in the zero-sum game environment of pre-civilization to be sexually attracted to narcissists.
Since the birth of civilization, a few thousand years ago, natural selection has favored the positive-sum game player, but sexual selection still favors the zero-sum game player. This is why porn heavily utilizes Satanic themes.
Is our failure, as a species, to overcome our own carnal compulsion to mate with zero-sum game players the reason for the emergence of this evil?
Is our failure, as a species, to overcome our own carnal compulsion to mate with zero-sum game players the reason why our species will likely destroy itself in World War 3?
Question: Why does this matter?
Who cares if a Factor-2 sociopath is really a high spectrum covert narcissist?
It's an interesting hypothesis, but why should I CARE?
You should CARE because your fate and the fate of everyone you care about depends upon you CARING.
Why is this?
All moral humans should look upon a situation where an entire people are cheering on the genocxde of another people and stop to ask the question: WHY?
We might tell ourselves: "They are brainwashxd".
But that is a LIE. We know, in our hearts, that there is no amount of brainwashxng on earth that could compel good people to support genocxde. So WHY do they do it? What has happened to their society?
Is this the same phenomenon of civilizational collapse that has happened MANY times before throughout history?
From the bronze age collapse, to Sodom & Gomorrah, to the fall of the Roman empire, the mass killxng of World War 1 & 2?
Can ALL of this be accurately explained by the growth of narcissism in the gene pool such that narcissism completely destroys a civilization?
I believe that is EXACTLY what is happening.
Part of the reason we are afraid to admit the truth that Factor-2 sociopaths are really just narcissists, is because we are all hard-wired by millions of years of evolution in the zero-sum game environment of pre-civilization to be sexually attracted to narcissists.
Since the birth of civilization, a few thousand years ago, natural selection has favored the positive-sum game player, but sexual selection still favors the zero-sum game player. This is why pxrn heavily utilizes Satxnic themes.
Is our failure, as a species, to overcome our own carnal compulsion to mate with zero-sum game players the reason for the emergence of this evxl?
Is our failure, as a species, to overcome our own carnal compulsion to mate with zero-sum game players the reason why our species will likely destroy itself in World War 3?
What is your heritage?? I suppose🇯🇵🇬🇧🇨🇦🇫🇷🤔in the interest of fairness I am both a narcissist & proud sociopath🇬🇧.....an answer to the Q will allow me to estimate for biasis in your work should I become a subscriber🙏
You sound like your talking about Joe Biden
I doubt he even knows what year it is
@@Vandalio_Saez You funny man...
……. Keep seeing your therapist !!! ……… it’s obvious you will be needing years of therapy to get well ….
I imagine that you and your colleagues, who make similar videos for profit, are causing more domestic disputes than resolutions. Shame.
Wut
I don't know that I agree with that but I would definitely like to see videos on solutions. Identifying the problem is only 50% of the battle. And most of the videos are just identifying and understanding which I'm grateful for.
@SatSingh-mm4gg I would say these videos are uncovering abusive, violent abusers by the thousands. Did it ruin your party or do you feel the cat is out of the bag?
Indians are different.
@@drivethruabortion280 Yeah, I'm aware. It's just a travesty that in 2024, any culture, celebrates cruelty and abuse to another human.
Yes
At some point,
Stop pointing to the link above, Libra.