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- Опубликовано: 31 июл 2024
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We installed a 20 kW liquid propane generator for a customer. This generators also run a natural gas. We talk about the external battery charger and exercising.
I’m suprise they faced the exhaust side toward the home being that close. Cheap siding in all.
Alway fun to see your new videos! Hope you and your family are safe! Blessings, Heath
There's a sweet open source project called Genmon that uses a Raspberry Pi computer to monitor these generators and give you text messages and emails if anything is wrong with the genny or if it starts running during a power outage and you're away. I built one for my Generac. Works great!
@PWS354 Ok, Ok, I was just trying to add a creative suggestion. I'm just a dumbass Mech Eng degree guy too but I figured it out. It wasn't that hard. All the heavy lifting is already done by others. There is a well documented wiki for anyone interested. Just google Genmon. You don't need to write any of your own code.
Actually there's an app called CUMMINS CONNECTED CLOUD I have the app but don't have the generator. I love it and it's got a demo mode that allows me to test it out and setting up an account is easy. also go to CUMMINS HOME GENERATION WEBSITE.
Very nice setup! Thanks f or the educational video that was quick and to the point. My setup is a little different but you gave me a couple of great ideas for when I need to replace my aging generator.
That's a Cummins RS20A - very nice generator, I have one. Runs on natural gas or propane, puts out a bit more power on Propane (83A @ 240VAC), uses variable amounts of fuel, depending on the load. Also has an ethernet port for internet connectivty and has an app to see the status/remote start/stop the unit as well. They sell for about $5-6K wholesale, and then you have to add in installation & permitting, looking at a $10-12K cost.
I had a quote today for the exact same generator and installation. 320 gallon propane tank filled and generator install for 15K.
These sure do come in handy in hurricane country.
Interesting design change in the generator. That Cummins is a small footprint compared to the Carrier by Generac that I had installed over a decade ago. My generator does have to self-test ever week to charge the battery.
We do 1 hour once a month under load. It has worked well for years.
Awesome bucket
What does a complete setup like that typically cost installed ?
Rule of thumb ballpark cost. The genset alone is x dollars. Double that amont. Installation of the electrical components. Transfer switches are not cheap especially ATS's. The fuel tank and everything associated with that. Then local government wants to tax it. They call it a permit. Then the inspection cost. If you are looking online and see a genset retailing for 10k it's going to be 20k installed.
Liquid propane wow you said it wrong
I’d call it a permit too. It keeps the unskilled or indifferent from leaving a mess that could start a fire and burn the neighborhood (or more) down.
Engineer775, I just have a couple of questions.#1 I was wondering how come the clearance requirements were not followed per manufacturers specifications ? If I'm not mistaken, this unit should be set 60 inches minimum, from doors or air intakes ( it looks to me like the entry door and crawl space air vent are much closer than 60 inchs ?). Also I believe there is a 30 inch clearance on the left hand side of the generator to any combustible material ( it looks to me like that wood deck is a little closer than 30 inchs ?) #2 a sediment trap / drip leg is required per manufacturer specifications. Just wondering why this was not installed ? ( Massachusetts is the only state in the country not requiring drip legs on outdoor gas appliances and they are just plain wrong ). If you could shine some light on my two concerns ,I would appreciate. it. Thanks Bob.
What this means is he is a hack and didn't follow the fire codes and electrical code not to mental all the code violations you found he also use pvc for everything that should tell you everything about this guy hacks r us
I love how they put them so close to the house to save a hundred bucks of copper.
Nice video
THANK YOU
@ Engineer775 I thought the 500 gal propane tank was going to be buried?
How often does the 500 lb tank need tested and or how long does it last and how far from a house does it need to be?
Stay safe !!
Whats the best way to integrate a generator and the power grid with the automatic transfer switch with off grid solar power? Then if your power grid went out you could fall back to solar then the generator as last resort.
I have to echo some of the other comments. This install violates every dimensional restriction for a home standby generator, not to mention the exhaust directly at the house. This video really should be titled what not to do.
yep lots of no-no's
You said it was quiet. Could you do a short vid showing what it sounds like?
Nice neat install. I see your not up in the north. You'd need liquid to a vaporizer to make enough pressure to work in cold weather
so you will switch out the connector when switching to your backup propane tank? I may do this.. this is a good temp setup to make you outlast the rest if things get bad but aren't WWIII?
This is great are similar available in uk ?
wow, you guys have totally different wiring systems than we do in Australia.
im in NZ and agree. 110v seems to be way simpler. How are you guys holding up. I have been at home for over 2 weeks going a little crazey
@@ronicarbine8723 It is 240v. 2 Hots, 1 Neutral, and 1 Ground. 4 Wire system.
Good job,
FYI, I think NFP requires something like 3’ or 5’ spacing from the house. I’ve seen a few videos on generators catching fire.
5-ft spacing from a window
@@engineer775 , 5' from Windows,Doors and air intakes. This is for exhaust purposes (C/O , carbon monoxide) . I believe the distance for combustible material is 18 "from the back & 30" from the side ( I believe it is the left side). Did you read the installation manual & National Fuel Gas Code completely on this subject?
@@boby115 just installed a 13kx Cummins. The OM said 18" from sides (the sides where there is no louvers), 30" from front and 60" to rear (in your case the house).
@@soving , thank you so much for commenting on your understanding of the specified clearances. Having been a first responder / gas fitter for 35 years dealing with incidents in the gas industry, I can tell you we learn far more from our failures than we do our successes. Not really sure why Engineer 775 is not commenting or addressing our concerns on this particular installation. Believe me, I've been involved with multiple depositions when incidents occur and it is far better to address them now before any eventual or possible incident. Hope some of this information helps , keep learning and stay safe out there.
@@boby115This is an ugly installation with no regard for codes and clearances.
The flex conduit from the generator to the transfer switch does not meet NEC code. 6’ maximum.
Not technically to code but there is nothing wrong in practice with runs of over 6ft of LFNC or LFMC and that is a stupid code requirement. They got rid of the 6ft maximum run limit on FMC for the same reason.
What happened to the live feed the other day?
I didn't read through all 60 something replies but there are some common misconceptions. 1,Battery charging technology has come a long way in 30 years. Used to be the chargers caused the battery to explode. That is one reason for weekly start ups. It's almost unheard of now.
There are now on the market brushless alternators/generators. These are more initially yet required maintenance is lower. What follows below is for gensets that are not brushless. However it is well advised to seriously consider the procedures. I personally want to be assured that when power is needed it's available.
2,Generators need to run for their health so to speak. The actual generator part of genset has slip rings. That's where the electricity is made. Essentially brushes and a rotor. These are highly prone to corrosion especially in humid conditions. By exercising the genset not only is the engine portion having the fluids circulated. The build up of dirt,dust and corrosion is cleaned from the slip rings. It has to be under significant load for it to be beneficial. No load essentially no benefit. Some users have more intensive needs and I will leave it there.
3,Diesel fuel does grow algae and can wreak havoc no doubt when not fitted to proper applications. This is dealt with in many ways. A, fresh fuel added after every exercise. Breaks surface tension in side the tank. There by interrupting the algae forming process. You can't stop it. B, constantly changing out old fuel filters for new. C, There are service providers that will recondition your fuel. They come on site. Pump your fuel into their tank which is a series of screens, baffles and filters. Then pump it back into your tank. It's a cleaner fuel then brand new. D, Propane,Natural gas,Diesel and Gasoline must be consumed in order for the standby system to operate as desired when called upon. There is really no way around it.
Now many of you are thinking this a very expensive proposition! No doubt the maintenance cost seem high. It all depends on how important it is to the customer to never experience a power outage. Healthcare and manufacturing take it in stide. It's the cost of doing business. You are on a operating table. The utility power goes out. What then? Manufacturers plants lose power. Down time is lost revenue.
People that don't care to deal with any of the above might want to consider a portable genset that handles a few appliances. That needs a yearly service too. It's much more reasonable though.
Lot of questions and comments below that haven't been address.
off subject - lithium batteries with electronics EMP proof ?
what size propane gas regulator is this I need to buy one for my generator please comment if anyone knows thank you
Whatever happened to your wood gas setup?
Does the generator have a 2 wire start?
How much does it cost for one hour a week and how often do you run yours now
Cost would vary by load on it! And where you are and how much fuel is at the time!
I don't know if you can hear it, but there is a very high-pitched noise on the final segment of the video. Any idea what that is?
The customer has problems with the neighbor's dog so that was some sort of dog deterrent whistle.
It doesn't seem high-pitched enough. Could you hear it in person? It must have been loud - my ears were feeling it just hearing it on video. Thanks for the reply.
I just had a site survey done today for a Cummins 20kw. They can’t put it that close to the house or the exterior electrical panels here in NC. $9840 turn key job with one t’fer switch in case anyone is shopping around..
What is the recommended exercise duration? I have a 22 kw generac and it was set by the installers to run once per week for 5 minutes. My elderly aunt had a cummins installed at about the same time, early 2021, and the installers set hers to 20 minutes. She was wondering why hers has to run that long. And does it? That adds up on the natural gas cost, and possibly unnecessarily.
It would make sense to exercise for 15-20 minutes to get the oil up to temp and burn off any oil moisture. I have and Cummins RS20AC and have it set to 20min weekly. Once I hit the 100hr service I might back off to every 2 or 4 weeks.
Propane generaters uses a lot of propane gas. I was shocked at the amount. Check the fuel consumption before you buy.
How much for that setup ? 20 grand
nice generator to bad you installed it with the exhaust blowing right on the house and main electrical conduit. i bet with a thermal imager you would see temp at 170 f plus on a hot day conduit is only good for 80 degree c converts to 176 f too close for my comfort
how long would 500 gallons last running that big ole thing.
Pretty much my question as well.
500 gallon tanks normally only get filled to about 400 around here but.
500 gallon tanks are not filled completely which is good to know. The partial load figures are available from the manufacturer so as to not scare you off. It is kind of shocking last time I was looking. If you can afford to install one of these you aren't going to sweat the propane bill but grid power is waaaaay cheaper than back up power. That goes for gasoline, diesel, or propane/LNG.
@@notsoserious0944 Yeah we just did install one of these a couple weeks ago.
I would bet in the summer about 5-7 days max if they load shed, in the winter maybe 2-3 days longer.
Why are you hard piped into the gen? It should be flex.
The generator doesn’t seem to respect the distance from the house 🏡 Cummins Oman 20 kw air cooled generators exhaust from the back and requires to be installed at least one meter away from the house and at least 5 feet away from doors 🚪 and windows 🪟 and by looking at this video it doesn’t seem to respect that , and also to avoid installing a low pressure regulator close to the generator, you should of installed a perfection underground gas line and that way you would’ve be able to install low pressure from the propane tank and avoid the regulator at the generator
I noticed this too. The generator's exhaust should not be facing the house. It needs to be turned 90-degrees otherwise the exhaust and heat are blowing against the house (siding is combustible). He's screwed here though because if he turns it, he's dealing with the deck on one side and the gas on the other. My installer made same mistake and I had to turn it using two Little Giant ladders positioned on either side of the generator, a 4x4 stud across the top of the ladders and a hoist to lift it off ground.
Huh, I don't know about the exercising. All of our diesel gensets exercise weekly and they all have grid battery chargers. There's got to be more to it than just keeping batteries charged?
There is! ..... You just don't need to run them long ...... or often! ;0)
mrbodo69 & Dave W, most serious standby generators have a battery charger on them, if they are used in conjunction with a ATS, battery power is normally used to power the controller while the genset is not running. That being said, exercising the generator has nothing to do with battery charging in a modern generator with ATS ( automatic transfer switch). Exercising the generator is just a reassurance system that the generator will work when needed. The frequency of generator exercises is determined by the generator manufacturer and its specifications, not the people in the comment section on RUclips.
@@boby115 So does my point stand or do the manufacturers want their kit running exactly the same? Have the times and frequencies changed?
@@totherarf , a lot of this has to do with the manufacturer and the particular model of generator. I find the engineering departments at all the generator manufacturers quite receptive of any questions and concerns you might have. For instance your questions might have to do with Energy Efficiency being diminished by excessive exercise intervals and my question may have to do with accurate verification that the generator will work when needed because I'm on an oxygen pump ( I'm not on an oxygen pump but if I were ,Energy Efficiency would probably be a low priority). Having worked for the gas utility in St Louis, Missouri for 35 years I have learned never to make my own assumptions, always verify trew the manufacturer of the piece of equipment we are dealing with. In most incidents and accidents in my industry very few are caused by improper engineering manufacturing (some), but the vast majority are caused by contractor, human error or poor maintenance.
I just checked the specs for the the unit being installed. 2-3 gph for LP. That's pretty nuts.
Shouldn't the propane regulator vent have a 10' stand off from combustibles, I believe the generator is a combustible according to NFPA 58.
Don't know where you live, but my regulator is 6 inches from the wall of my house.
A low pressure regulator according to Québec building code has to be vented 10 feet away from all electrical sources
I would be looking at another brand. I installed this generator using a local dealer and it didn't work for the first 3 years! At first they charged me for service calls and finally admitted it was a warranty issue but never refunded my money for the calls. Finally about a month ago the service tech came and installed a new fuel solenoid. He said the original one would burn out due to the starter dropping the battery voltage down too low (That's what they told me). It seems to work now but I have no faith in this brand - Cummins does not make a reliable machine.
Ever seen how much propane one of those uses under full load ? For a week ? That tank wont run it 3 days . Diesel is the only way to supplement solar . Been there done that , paid the propane bill . Lesson learned lol .
Doesn't diesel turn bad rapidly?
@@rjr49631 Very rapidly. NG is the best way to go if you have it available.
Signing off-
I don't know what's worse, all the code violations or the fact the inspectors passed it!? 🤔 Just wrong on many levels..
What a messed up install. Too close to the house and deck, and good luck changing the rear spark plug with that install. If a permit was pulled that install would get red tagged in a hot second here.
A) generator is too close to the home...min 3' in that orientation B) electrician was kind of sloppy on the flex cable...should be careful on the outside of someone's home.
For this model, the clearance is 60" from intake and exhaust.
@@rick8203 Air flow on that Gen is from the front and out the back. Install manual says, 30" clear space behind. It looks to be ~12" . "too close to home"
@@soving I wish that were the case. But the exhaust is facing the house (which is not air tight so fumes would enter, and the siding is combustible). In my paperwork, it shows this in the drawing. Inspector caught it right away. Here's a Cummins vid showing the specs, and proper install: ruclips.net/video/EKkyVL8TCuY/видео.html
@@rick8203 You are so right, I was reading the guide wrong this am... I did a 13KW install. Great Gen. Gotta watch the setbacks : thx
@@soving My electrician totally screwed me and installed wrong. Between the unit and the base... a 700+ lb problem that he left me with. Said "well that's what the Generac's are, and that's what I was going by". Duh :-)
Honestly, you should read these comments and take this video down. IT IS DANGEROUSLY FLAWED!! There are multiple non-geographic location specific mistakes and violations in this video. Just for starters and probably most importantly - A simple read of the generator installation diagram will show that this unit should NOT be sited where it is, oriented in the direction it is facing or installed with the exhaust blowing directly into the nearby door!! HELLO MCFLY!? These Cummins units are to be installed at least 60 inches from any door, window, vent etc. The only way this could be closer is if it was installed on the actual porch in front of the door.