A little tip I once got from a photographer to avoid banding in the sky on youtube, for example. Add a small grain to the video in post and the banding will disappear or be greatly minimized..
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the advantage of 10-bit footage really comes into play during color grading or noise removal, where it offers much more flexibility than 8-bit. As you mentioned, in ideal lighting, there's not much difference, especially when uploading to RUclips. However, in challenging shooting conditions, 10-bit provides greater flexibility for the final product, even when uploaded to RUclips. So, if your camera supports 10-bit, it's better to use it. If the only point of your video is that you can save memory by shooting in 8-bit under perfect lighting, that doesn't seem like a very practical advantage.
Important bit to remember is that Davinci Resolve FREE only outputs 8-bit even if you're using 10-bit 4:2:2 clips. Exporting 10-bit is only available on the paid Studio version. Let that sink in for a bit. *puns intended
And remember that no where online can you actually see 10 bit colors for video content. RUclips, IG/TikTok are all locked to 8 bit, unless you upload HDR content to RUclips.
As always, a really good ‘practical’ explanation - and for me the most important point you make clear - whatever the camera, whether photography or video, it’s the story that’s important - not the pixels
Absolutely. Story for the win. Everyone and myself included sometimes get too much into specs and forget what matters the most. This is one of many series like this
as a wedding videographer i need 10 bit a lot because skin tone with different situation without artificial lighting sometimes really hard to adjust skin tone
Great video. Tried matching an a-can FX3 10 bit with a b-can A7III shooting 8-bit. The reds are so different from what I see. It takes a lot of tinkering to get them to look similar. But I’ve recently found shooting Fx3 on 10 bit and A7III in 8 bit with Slog-3 Cine 4 you can match them so much more easily. Only downside is you get a limited dynamic range.
Absolutely killer video on the subject. Thanks for sharing. This is my stance: At the end of the day, we're at the mercy of the platforms we're uploading to. RUclips does 8 bit colors, and the max bitrate for 4k 30 fps or less videos is 45 Mbps. They're going to compress your video no matter what and quality will suffer. Example: When you're showing the sky at 5:15, you can clearly see color banding throughout the sky. Ain't nothing we can do about it. For that reason, I never record footage over 50 Mbps. 10 bit is usually behind super high bitrates (ex on your camera it's showing 140 Mbps) so the only thing you're doing by recording at higher frame bit rates is eating up more storage and slowing down your workflow which costs money and eats time. If you're posting to social media, the bitrate is 5 Mbps! 10 is enough and anything more than that is overkill.
Saludos desde Chile, al final el resultado es casi el mismo y además es más fácil de editar, tanto esfuerzo que a a veces le ponemos y en realidad lo importante es contar una buena historia, entregar buen contenido, como el que estás entregando tú en estos momentos. Muy buen canal, tengo la buena suerte de entender inglés gracias a mi padrasto canadiense y gracias a aquello puedo aprender de tu experiencia. Saludos!
I do slow-mo sports video and the A74 8bit limitation on that does hurt: primarily in shot-matching crowd shots and coaching footage done in 10bit, but also when you're trying to cut color casts out of white uniforms or blues out of blacks once it gets dark (and once you're playing under artificial light, I'll often give up on log footage as well to claw back those 1.7 stops).
For most people yeah. I think the biggest thing is where the footage will get used. Vimeo holds higher bitrate in the upload with less compression. Or other forms can also be better than RUclips, Facebook and Instagram where a lot of client work ends up
Sorry mate, the whole point of higher bit depth, 10 bit, 12 bit etc. Is for more flexibility when grading, that's where you see a major difference with higher bit depth compared to 8 bit which breaks apart very easily and restricts you to the look you get out of camera. Your comparisons of side by side images is kind of a pointless comparison, because yet again, the point of higher bit depth is for more flexibility, it's not going to give you a better image out of the gate. If you are not pushing or pulling colours in post then there is not much advantage to shooting higher than 8 bit, because as you said, everything gets delivered to an 8 bit final result such on youtube or any platform. Think of it like in photography terms shooting jpeg vs RAW, out of the gate jpeg looks fine, but the moment you start pushing and pulling the image it breaks apart very quickly, this is the same with 8 bit and it is why shooting LOG, 10 bit, 12 bit, etc is desirable. Anyways thats my mini rant over just had to put my thoughts out there, was a good video regardless
Thanks for doing this video. I just got a sony ZVe10 as a B cam to my Canon R8 only because I wanted APSC and the sony system. I do notice quite a lot f difference but that could be me as well. When you edit 8 bit, can you edit it in a 4:2:2 timeline or do you have to edit in a 4:2:0 timeline in FCP?
Good low light cabable sensor, lens matters also lot with composition to make cinematic looking image, many 8bit consumer cameras unfortunately come with kitlenses which dont give all quality you could get out from camera. I got canon 90D and black magic 6k g2. I have done recording with pentax smc vintage lenses and samyang cine lenses from same site, and differences might not be so recognizable, depending on how you color grading. Banding is issue ofc with canon 90D.
Thanks for breaking this down as I have been conflicted about investing in expensive 512gb type b cards just to use 4.2.2:10bit. I use both for photography and videography and I prefer the A7IV colors out of the camera and the AF is improved but in most cases I don't really see that much of a difference in the files.
Can you do a short follow up (or just post a short) of the same scene shot at 10 bit, then: A: exported at 10 bit, uploaded to RUclips B: exported at 10 bit, on your IG C/D: you do the compression during export, and then upload As someone looking to make some content mostly for social media, the question I have is it worth having the flexibility to grade/compose better on 10 bit, and then export myself, or regardless will the platforms' compression ruin it anyways? And maybe add a poll on everything (get you some cross-platform follower integration!) and see how much devices come into play. I watch a lot of youtube on my 10 year old LCD monitor that feels like 6 bit sometimes with how blown out it is. We can certainly shoot 10-bit for ourselves and go "wow, pretty colors" but if saving space (for myself, covering 12+ hours/day of multi-day dance competitions) is necessary (sorry, can't afford $10,000 worth of CF/A cards yet), and yields a better product based off the shots we can capture, then it could be worth the loss of fidelity given the several layers of degredation between camera sensor and some 15 year old on TikTok watching in 1080p/4:2:0/8-bit on an iPhone 8.
Ok Jason, totally understood. This incredible information is greatly appreciated. BUT, now I would like to know what color profile (with its settings) you used to record with the A7III, and how you exposed it to have that beautiful look. Thank you very much and greetings from Tegucigalpa, Honduras! (Central America) 🙌🏻❤️🇭🇳
@@Creative.visionzzthis seems to be a hot topic, some people swear slog2 is the best for 8bit cameras and slog3 is always unusable on 8bit cameras / some people think slog3 is fine when used properly
Jason，I have watched all your videos and found that you lacked an explanation about Sony pp. I like your video style very much, but can you please make a video to explain which is more suitable with slog or hlg for a73 or fx30? （8bit or 10 bit）really wanna see your explanation！God bless！
Dope video but as someone who used an 8bit 420 Camara for years to make music videos and short films, yes you can make a great image with them, but they're too limiting. The banding in the sky's and the way the shadows of my images would completely fall apart was unusable at a certain point. And the more color depth is so helpful in color grading.
The same things can be said about HD 1080 10 bit on the fx3 it looks amazing even blown up at 200% where on an 8 bit camera it falls apart. I’ve not filmed on 8 bit with the fx3 but next time I do my proxies I’m going to chose that to see the quality
yeah HD is actually quite different. I compared HD on the FX6 to A7 IV & A7R V once and the processing in the FX6 with HD was miles better. Just depends on camera too
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema fantastic ! I’m going to check that out. I noticed the high quality in hd in the fx3 right away which makes it versatile for me knowing I can record good quality HD when I don’t need 4K.
great video! I think more people need to reevaluate 8bit vs 10bit. for much of my client work, I still use 8bit especially if im only doing indoor filming. and it still works really well... and easier on my cpu processing.
@@tdavis7396if you're having issues with your CPU you should definitely try editing with a mezzanine codec instead H.264/h.265 are delivery codecs and are not meant to be used for editing, if your on Mac try converting to Prores and if your on PC try converting to DNxHR The timeline performance improvement is massive and well worth the size increase This is one of the benefits of using an external recorder as it records straight into a mezzanine codec One thing that isn't really talked about is GoPro Cineform has reeeeally good timeline performance because it's GPU accelerated (instead of being CPU heavy), but the files are unfortunately massive
You don't need 10 bit if your computer can't handle it or the codec can't be read. You don't buy an fx3/as7iii to not take advantage of the technology.
this may be alot to ask but can you do a video on how to get good subject separation with APSC cameras like FX30 and A6700? not the bokeh that blurs everything but like when you have a wide shot and you want the subject full body to be separated from the background but still showing it like on 24MM 1.4 full frame or 55MM 1.8 FF
@@mdenjoyer831 It's because crop sensor 1.4F is not equivalent to FF 1.4F. You can create physical distance between the subject and background, resulting in a better separation. The other thing you may look at is 3D pop; it could be your lens profile is flat.
Normal people don't care or see or need at all 10 bit 422 1600mbps luts and logs. Cameras are super good even without these. What we really miss in 2024 is great stories, great audio handling and great light handling. Nobody cares can camera see dark black without noise.
I shoot in 10bit and I couldn’t agree with you more. Stories are lacking big time! But I wouldn’t compromise quality for story. Both are equally important.
I've been shooting 10 bit All-I on my last few shoots. File sizes are obviously bigger - but honestly it's been so much better. A lot of my work is in uncontrolled environments, so at most I have maybe a light and a tiny additional light, but less than a minute to prep it. Having that tiny bit of extra pull makes a world of difference. I just wish I didn't have to buy into Sony's dumb CF-A cards. If the next S5 iteration can offer 10 bit 4k 120 - I would probably sell off my Sony's to go straight to nvme.
@@devklepacki I’ve got a couple of v90’s and not sure if it’s just my unit - but my a7iv gets really hot and my a7siii will only do 4k120 slowed 10 bit on CF-A. The CF-A has been my best experience recording on both my a7siii and a7iv generally. But ideally - nvme’s are way cheaper and more reliable than both. The other features of the S5 make it more attractive than Sony’s flagships lately(other than my Panasonic experience has generally been bad).
@@devklepacki for sure. Also, from what I understand the S5 II actually shares the same or very similar sensor to the Sony a7iv - so there's definitely potential for them to coexist.
More important than bit depth is sensor size (quality), codec, processor, memory speed. This is why sony 8 bit looks so bad In some ways. Codec sucks for their 8 bit but lumix 8 bit looks great but held back by sensor size. This is why sony doesn't necessarily need 12 bit like their competition because their 10 bit is a perfect mix with the codecs offered unlike the competition. Thank you for the great video as always Jonathan.
I appreciate this topic....any opinions on MP4 vs MOV? The Lumix S5ii offers a 4K 10 bit in MP4 format - why would one use or not use that vs MOV 4k 10bit?
Were you shooting in log? When I shoot in s-log3 on my a6400 the image can fall apart quickly, especially when I push the shadows or bring down the highlights
Currently have 8Bit 4:2:0. I do not like it. Looks bad when color grading. Wondering if 10Bit 4:2:2 would be enough. As I was considering a 12Bit 4:2:2 / 4:4:4 *I shoot outdoors 90% of the time
Echoing comments below - 8 bit is fine IF you nail your exposure/colors/look in camera (always the hope - not always the outcome!). 10 bit allows for MUCH more flexibility in post before the image degrades - changing colors/WB etc... Kind of like the old JPEG vs RAW argument with stills- JPEG is fine if you get it right in camera - RAW for the 'rest' of us!!
Yeah for sure. Not quite as dramatic as jpg and raw but similar concept. Same can be said for underexposed crappy 10bit. Realistically there is more at stake than the camera we are using. I think that’s the biggest take away from this video
Do you still get to utilize the whole dynamic range when shooting 10bit 422 standard picture profile or scinetone? i already shoot in log but wondering if baked in profiles in 10bit still preserves the dynamic range. Thanks!
Hi great video! But for me Slog 3 is unusable in 8bit with the Sony A7 III. Infact with that camere i have to use slog2. While on the A7 IV i can easily use Slog3 with 10bit. Do you have any color correction tips?
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema thank you for your reply 😁 I know but when i try to push the colours of the 8bit Slog3 it's awful also with different kind of exposure (using zebras etc.). While with Slog2 it's ok. Maybe i should try Davinci for the color correction 🤣
@@ASVideo1000% use resolve. Expose 1.7 stops over middle grey If you are shooting Prores externally then you need to change the clip attributes to full instead of video, but this isn't necessary if you are just shooting internally Bring the exposure back down, then do a conversion lut I made my own conversion lut based on a common scene I shoot regularly.. Get proper white balance in camera on location, this is tricky on the older alpha cameras as custom white balance is bugged in video mode, you have to switch to PP off, switch to photo mode, hold up a 18% grey card favoring the key, take a custom WB, switch back to video mode, switch to PP slog3, hold up an 50% middle grey card favoring key, meter for 1.7+, hold up a Calibrite ColorChecker Video (I find this one to be more accurate than the cheaper ones), angle the chart favoring the key light and angle it so the black reflects as a deep black, record a clip for a few seconds while slowly angle the chart left to right After all that you can bring that clip into resolve and transform it into rec709..that's a whole other process
@@Supercon57 hi thank you very much for this detailed explanation. I'm using Adobe Premiere since...always 😂 so it's very difficult form me to change the program. Anyway the A7 III for me is a B-cam that i use sometimes for some run and gun shooting so this process it's not good for me. So I'm using the Slog2 with the zebras exposing the highlights (+106) and with a custom conversion lut i have 90% of the time a very good result. It's the easiest way for me. But it's crazy that these older models are a mess with the slog 😂
I've recently been reading some controversy about HGL2 or 3 having better skin tones than S-Log 2 or 3. What's your opinion and could HGL2 + 8-bit be a good option for those who do not have a 10-bit capable camera?
End use case and audience are big factors. If no one's noticing and it's just going on mobile for IG, the extra expense might not make sense. How much storage difference is there?
@@videokreatorji no it’s not hard you just don’t understand WHAT he’s trying to show which is that if you start off with 10 bit vs 8 bit and RUclips broadcasts 8 bit the difference is minor in tones/colors which is slight regardless what you start off with. He’s not trying to show you the actual difference between 10 bit and 8 bit in camera that you can do on your own in with your camera by recording the subject in different bits. I’ve shot an entire film in 8 bit (with one sequence in 10 bit 4k) and finished in 10 bit ProRes as a Final Cut and it looked great when projected on a screen in a theatre with a high grade projector it looks pretty crisp and the high end projector brings out colors and tones of the film I didn’t know existed. the point is it’s all relative.
honestly? i think the A7III looks better than the IV. in the beginning, i thought it was the opposite when you were comparing without telling which is which.
The situations aren’t demanding enough to show why it matters. A good colorist could probably make 8 bit work but its much less of a hassle with 10bit.
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema Thanks Jason. The reason why I was asking was when I saw Sigma FP L's 12 bit footage. Its ability to adjust many things in Davinci is amazing, compared to Sony's 10 bit. I was wondering if I am wrong and hoping someone else take a look at it. haha.
A little tip I once got from a photographer to avoid banding in the sky on youtube, for example.
Add a small grain to the video in post and the banding will disappear or be greatly minimized..
Interesting.
this is true, the grain lightly spreads out the banding
It’s simple for me, if I’m shooting in Log I shoot 10bit.
If I’m doing a quick rec709 video I shoot in 8bit, easy 👌
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the advantage of 10-bit footage really comes into play during color grading or noise removal, where it offers much more flexibility than 8-bit. As you mentioned, in ideal lighting, there's not much difference, especially when uploading to RUclips. However, in challenging shooting conditions, 10-bit provides greater flexibility for the final product, even when uploaded to RUclips.
So, if your camera supports 10-bit, it's better to use it. If the only point of your video is that you can save memory by shooting in 8-bit under perfect lighting, that doesn't seem like a very practical advantage.
I concur! 😆
You are correct!
Important bit to remember is that Davinci Resolve FREE only outputs 8-bit even if you're using 10-bit 4:2:2 clips. Exporting 10-bit is only available on the paid Studio version. Let that sink in for a bit. *puns intended
And remember that no where online can you actually see 10 bit colors for video content. RUclips, IG/TikTok are all locked to 8 bit, unless you upload HDR content to RUclips.
I see what you bit there 😂
this is only true for h.265 10 bit clips, prores 422 or any other format works in free version
As always, a really good ‘practical’ explanation - and for me the most important point you make clear - whatever the camera, whether photography or video, it’s the story that’s important - not the pixels
Absolutely. Story for the win. Everyone and myself included sometimes get too much into specs and forget what matters the most. This is one of many series like this
as a wedding videographer i need 10 bit a lot because skin tone with different situation without artificial lighting sometimes really hard to adjust skin tone
yes i understand this. Different colors will make a difference. We will notice but most people won't even know the difference
Great video. Tried matching an a-can FX3 10 bit with a b-can A7III shooting 8-bit. The reds are so different from what I see. It takes a lot of tinkering to get them to look similar. But I’ve recently found shooting Fx3 on 10 bit and A7III in 8 bit with Slog-3 Cine 4 you can match them so much more easily. Only downside is you get a limited dynamic range.
Yeah definitely always going to be a challenge color matching. When seeing the colors by itself no one will know.
the difference is more noticeable when shooting log
Amen to this Jason! Thanks for this vid bit of justification to holding onto a a6500 as a solid b cam.
Absolutely killer video on the subject. Thanks for sharing.
This is my stance: At the end of the day, we're at the mercy of the platforms we're uploading to.
RUclips does 8 bit colors, and the max bitrate for 4k 30 fps or less videos is 45 Mbps. They're going to compress your video no matter what and quality will suffer.
Example: When you're showing the sky at 5:15, you can clearly see color banding throughout the sky. Ain't nothing we can do about it.
For that reason, I never record footage over 50 Mbps. 10 bit is usually behind super high bitrates (ex on your camera it's showing 140 Mbps) so the only thing you're doing by recording at higher frame bit rates is eating up more storage and slowing down your workflow which costs money and eats time.
If you're posting to social media, the bitrate is 5 Mbps! 10 is enough and anything more than that is overkill.
plus i think we all get too carried away when most people and clients don't even know what we are talking about haha
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema Yeah, so true!
Thank you for the very informative contribution and the fresh look at things.
thank you for watching
i've tested both and yeah I'm always gonna go for 10-bit i remember being on a shoot with the a7iii and fx3 and yeah color just look soo much better
Saludos desde Chile, al final el resultado es casi el mismo y además es más fácil de editar, tanto esfuerzo que a a veces le ponemos y en realidad lo importante es contar una buena historia, entregar buen contenido, como el que estás entregando tú en estos momentos. Muy buen canal, tengo la buena suerte de entender inglés gracias a mi padrasto canadiense y gracias a aquello puedo aprender de tu experiencia. Saludos!
I do slow-mo sports video and the A74 8bit limitation on that does hurt: primarily in shot-matching crowd shots and coaching footage done in 10bit, but also when you're trying to cut color casts out of white uniforms or blues out of blacks once it gets dark (and once you're playing under artificial light, I'll often give up on log footage as well to claw back those 1.7 stops).
yeah definitely is that difference in color but most won't even notice. only us haha
Really detailed breakdown on the topic. Nice work
true to the conclusion. if no need for grading, no need for 12 bit raw and 10 bit 422.
For most people yeah. I think the biggest thing is where the footage will get used. Vimeo holds higher bitrate in the upload with less compression. Or other forms can also be better than RUclips, Facebook and Instagram where a lot of client work ends up
Thank you so much, this video is super helpful for me. Greetings from Czech Republic!
thank you for watching
Great video Jason! Taught me a little more tbh!
*VERY informative as I use a FX30 and 10-bit. I had the ZV-E10 using 8-Bit*
thank you for commenting
Sorry mate, the whole point of higher bit depth, 10 bit, 12 bit etc. Is for more flexibility when grading, that's where you see a major difference with higher bit depth compared to 8 bit which breaks apart very easily and restricts you to the look you get out of camera.
Your comparisons of side by side images is kind of a pointless comparison, because yet again, the point of higher bit depth is for more flexibility, it's not going to give you a better image out of the gate. If you are not pushing or pulling colours in post then there is not much advantage to shooting higher than 8 bit, because as you said, everything gets delivered to an 8 bit final result such on youtube or any platform.
Think of it like in photography terms shooting jpeg vs RAW, out of the gate jpeg looks fine, but the moment you start pushing and pulling the image it breaks apart very quickly, this is the same with 8 bit and it is why shooting LOG, 10 bit, 12 bit, etc is desirable.
Anyways thats my mini rant over just had to put my thoughts out there, was a good video regardless
I'm a simple man, I don't see a difference in any of the examples. They all look great. 👍
that will prove the point of the video even more haha. Thanks for commenting
😅
For youtube publishing 10bit 4:2:2 is like a semi-raw format. It's not as bad as 8bit nor as large as raw.
I wish youtube had vimeo quality
Thanks for doing this video. I just got a sony ZVe10 as a B cam to my Canon R8 only because I wanted APSC and the sony system. I do notice quite a lot f difference but that could be me as well. When you edit 8 bit, can you edit it in a 4:2:2 timeline or do you have to edit in a 4:2:0 timeline in FCP?
For me 10 bit is a must when im grading lots of noise colour and art effects can use HSL in 8 bit and my grading is very heavy
Good low light cabable sensor, lens matters also lot with composition to make cinematic looking image, many 8bit consumer cameras unfortunately come with kitlenses which dont give all quality you could get out from camera.
I got canon 90D and black magic 6k g2. I have done recording with pentax smc vintage lenses and samyang cine lenses from same site, and differences might not be so recognizable, depending on how you color grading. Banding is issue ofc with canon 90D.
Thanks for breaking this down as I have been conflicted about investing in expensive 512gb type b cards just to use 4.2.2:10bit. I use both for photography and videography and I prefer the A7IV colors out of the camera and the AF is improved but in most cases I don't really see that much of a difference in the files.
yeah end posting definitely makes a difference
Can you do a short follow up (or just post a short) of the same scene shot at 10 bit, then:
A: exported at 10 bit, uploaded to RUclips
B: exported at 10 bit, on your IG
C/D: you do the compression during export, and then upload
As someone looking to make some content mostly for social media, the question I have is it worth having the flexibility to grade/compose better on 10 bit, and then export myself, or regardless will the platforms' compression ruin it anyways?
And maybe add a poll on everything (get you some cross-platform follower integration!) and see how much devices come into play. I watch a lot of youtube on my 10 year old LCD monitor that feels like 6 bit sometimes with how blown out it is. We can certainly shoot 10-bit for ourselves and go "wow, pretty colors" but if saving space (for myself, covering 12+ hours/day of multi-day dance competitions) is necessary (sorry, can't afford $10,000 worth of CF/A cards yet), and yields a better product based off the shots we can capture, then it could be worth the loss of fidelity given the several layers of degredation between camera sensor and some 15 year old on TikTok watching in 1080p/4:2:0/8-bit on an iPhone 8.
Ok Jason, totally understood. This incredible information is greatly appreciated. BUT, now I would like to know what color profile (with its settings) you used to record with the A7III, and how you exposed it to have that beautiful look. Thank you very much and greetings from Tegucigalpa, Honduras! (Central America) 🙌🏻❤️🇭🇳
Usually pp7 which is slog 2
I used S-log 3 & s-gammut3.cine. Identical to my A7 IV just only 8bit
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema really? But isn’t slog 2 better than slog 3 on the a7 iii
@@Creative.visionzzthis seems to be a hot topic, some people swear slog2 is the best for 8bit cameras and slog3 is always unusable on 8bit cameras / some people think slog3 is fine when used properly
Jason，I have watched all your videos and found that you lacked an explanation about Sony pp. I like your video style very much, but can you please make a video to explain which is more suitable with slog or hlg for a73 or fx30? （8bit or 10 bit）really wanna see your explanation！God bless！
I remembered the A7iii as being worse than that too. Very interesting comparisons!!
Yeah I was humbled making this video. Personally I’ve come a long way since starting with video on the a7iii haha
I could tell the difference in the reds and blacks of your jersey
First 3 second and bro has insane banding on the background wall, guess why
Dope video but as someone who used an 8bit 420 Camara for years to make music videos and short films, yes you can make a great image with them, but they're too limiting. The banding in the sky's and the way the shadows of my images would completely fall apart was unusable at a certain point. And the more color depth is so helpful in color grading.
The same things can be said about HD 1080 10 bit on the fx3 it looks amazing even blown up at 200% where on an 8 bit camera it falls apart. I’ve not filmed on 8 bit with the fx3 but next time I do my proxies I’m going to chose that to see the quality
yeah HD is actually quite different. I compared HD on the FX6 to A7 IV & A7R V once and the processing in the FX6 with HD was miles better. Just depends on camera too
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema fantastic ! I’m going to check that out. I noticed the high quality in hd in the fx3 right away which makes it versatile for me knowing I can record good quality HD when I don’t need 4K.
Awesome video
thank you
great video! I think more people need to reevaluate 8bit vs 10bit. for much of my client work, I still use 8bit especially if im only doing indoor filming. and it still works really well... and easier on my cpu processing.
absolutely agreed. Making this video i was pretty shocked that the differences where there but so subtle it wouldn't even matter
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema right. And unless our clients know the different and asks for it, it’s ok to do 8bit when/if it makes our workflow easier.
@@tdavis7396if you're having issues with your CPU you should definitely try editing with a mezzanine codec instead
H.264/h.265 are delivery codecs and are not meant to be used for editing, if your on Mac try converting to Prores and if your on PC try converting to DNxHR
The timeline performance improvement is massive and well worth the size increase
This is one of the benefits of using an external recorder as it records straight into a mezzanine codec
One thing that isn't really talked about is GoPro Cineform has reeeeally good timeline performance because it's GPU accelerated (instead of being CPU heavy), but the files are unfortunately massive
You don't need 10 bit if your computer can't handle it or the codec can't be read. You don't buy an fx3/as7iii to not take advantage of the technology.
Really u r 100% right
this may be alot to ask but can you do a video on how to get good subject separation with APSC cameras like FX30 and A6700? not the bokeh that blurs everything
but like when you have a wide shot and you want the subject full body to be separated from the background but still showing it
like on 24MM 1.4 full frame or 55MM 1.8 FF
maybe search for 1.2 lens, the 24mm @f1.4 sadly imo won't cut it
@@mofuclarisu even with 1.2 it doesn't look close to the FF
@@mdenjoyer831 It's because crop sensor 1.4F is not equivalent to FF 1.4F. You can create physical distance between the subject and background, resulting in a better separation. The other thing you may look at is 3D pop; it could be your lens profile is flat.
Object close to camera, backgroung far away behind. There is no other way around physics.
that is tough. It is always aperture and distance to subject that will cause the depth of field to change
Normal people don't care or see or need at all 10 bit 422 1600mbps luts and logs. Cameras are super good even without these. What we really miss in 2024 is great stories, great audio handling and great light handling. Nobody cares can camera see dark black without noise.
I shoot in 10bit and I couldn’t agree with you more. Stories are lacking big time! But I wouldn’t compromise quality for story. Both are equally important.
I've been shooting 10 bit All-I on my last few shoots. File sizes are obviously bigger - but honestly it's been so much better. A lot of my work is in uncontrolled environments, so at most I have maybe a light and a tiny additional light, but less than a minute to prep it. Having that tiny bit of extra pull makes a world of difference. I just wish I didn't have to buy into Sony's dumb CF-A cards. If the next S5 iteration can offer 10 bit 4k 120 - I would probably sell off my Sony's to go straight to nvme.
You can record 4k 10bit 4:2:2 30/60fps with regular V90 cards on A7 IV, or did you mean something else about the CF-A cards?
@@devklepacki I’ve got a couple of v90’s and not sure if it’s just my unit - but my a7iv gets really hot and my a7siii will only do 4k120 slowed 10 bit on CF-A. The CF-A has been my best experience recording on both my a7siii and a7iv generally. But ideally - nvme’s are way cheaper and more reliable than both. The other features of the S5 make it more attractive than Sony’s flagships lately(other than my Panasonic experience has generally been bad).
@@calebfortune Ah yea I don't have experience with A7S III and higher frame rates. This makes sense!
@@devklepacki for sure. Also, from what I understand the S5 II actually shares the same or very similar sensor to the Sony a7iv - so there's definitely potential for them to coexist.
@4:18 magenta shift has nothing to do with bit depth. That's white balance or the a7iii sensor colors . Bit depth has nothing to do with dynamic range
😂 most also don’t need slog 3. I only shoot scinetone.😅
More important than bit depth is sensor size (quality), codec, processor, memory speed. This is why sony 8 bit looks so bad In some ways. Codec sucks for their 8 bit but lumix 8 bit looks great but held back by sensor size. This is why sony doesn't necessarily need 12 bit like their competition because their 10 bit is a perfect mix with the codecs offered unlike the competition. Thank you for the great video as always Jonathan.
Absolutely. Codec is massive here as the compression can ruin crappy footage
You need 12 Bit. 10 bit is the minimum now ^^
for 8 bit youtube?
I appreciate this topic....any opinions on MP4 vs MOV? The Lumix S5ii offers a 4K 10 bit in MP4 format - why would one use or not use that vs MOV 4k 10bit?
if Sony give the new menu system to a7iii would be very good
yeah those menus certainly are not as good as the new ones. The newer processor has a lot to do with this also
Were you shooting in log? When I shoot in s-log3 on my a6400 the image can fall apart quickly, especially when I push the shadows or bring down the highlights
Currently have 8Bit 4:2:0. I do not like it. Looks bad when color grading.
Wondering if 10Bit 4:2:2 would be enough. As I was considering a 12Bit 4:2:2 / 4:4:4
*I shoot outdoors 90% of the time
Echoing comments below - 8 bit is fine IF you nail your exposure/colors/look in camera (always the hope - not always the outcome!). 10 bit allows for MUCH more flexibility in post before the image degrades - changing colors/WB etc... Kind of like the old JPEG vs RAW argument with stills- JPEG is fine if you get it right in camera - RAW for the 'rest' of us!!
Yeah for sure. Not quite as dramatic as jpg and raw but similar concept. Same can be said for underexposed crappy 10bit. Realistically there is more at stake than the camera we are using. I think that’s the biggest take away from this video
Between my a7iii and zve1 I only notice a difference in extreme low light settings.
definitely. Different sensors there with sensitivity
Do you still get to utilize the whole dynamic range when shooting 10bit 422 standard picture profile or scinetone? i already shoot in log but wondering if baked in profiles in 10bit still preserves the dynamic range. Thanks!
Hi great video!
But for me Slog 3 is unusable in 8bit with the Sony A7 III. Infact with that camere i have to use slog2. While on the A7 IV i can easily use Slog3 with 10bit. Do you have any color correction tips?
lighting is the key with 8bit. THe newer 10bit and higher bit rate is more forgivable with bad exposure
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema thank you for your reply 😁
I know but when i try to push the colours of the 8bit Slog3 it's awful also with different kind of exposure (using zebras etc.).
While with Slog2 it's ok.
Maybe i should try Davinci for the color correction 🤣
@@ASVideo1000% use resolve.
Expose 1.7 stops over middle grey
If you are shooting Prores externally then you need to change the clip attributes to full instead of video, but this isn't necessary if you are just shooting internally
Bring the exposure back down, then do a conversion lut
I made my own conversion lut based on a common scene I shoot regularly..
Get proper white balance in camera on location, this is tricky on the older alpha cameras as custom white balance is bugged in video mode, you have to switch to PP off, switch to photo mode, hold up a 18% grey card favoring the key, take a custom WB, switch back to video mode, switch to PP slog3, hold up an 50% middle grey card favoring key, meter for 1.7+, hold up a Calibrite ColorChecker Video (I find this one to be more accurate than the cheaper ones), angle the chart favoring the key light and angle it so the black reflects as a deep black, record a clip for a few seconds while slowly angle the chart left to right
After all that you can bring that clip into resolve and transform it into rec709..that's a whole other process
@@Supercon57 hi thank you very much for this detailed explanation.
I'm using Adobe Premiere since...always 😂 so it's very difficult form me to change the program. Anyway the A7 III for me is a B-cam that i use sometimes for some run and gun shooting so this process it's not good for me.
So I'm using the Slog2 with the zebras exposing the highlights (+106) and with a custom conversion lut i have 90% of the time a very good result. It's the easiest way for me. But it's crazy that these older models are a mess with the slog 😂
Hello, I'm from Ukraine, thank's for good video 👍
10bit doesnt matter per se but what really matters is dynamic range (slog3) but slog3 sucks at 8bit, so indirectly 10bit matters
Was this shot on standard profile? Did you shoot anything in log? I think shooting in log is where 8-bit really falls apart.
Nice try RUclips Feds, I’m still shooting 10 bit 😏😂
If RUclips compresses it to 8 bit then how are we suppose to see the 10 bit?
The difference will be seen when color grading, before you export the video and upload it to RUclips
I've recently been reading some controversy about HGL2 or 3 having better skin tones than S-Log 2 or 3. What's your opinion and could HGL2 + 8-bit be a good option for those who do not have a 10-bit capable camera?
use hlg3 with bt.2020 Gerald Undone has an in depth video comparing sony picture profiles on an 8bit camera
Was the A73 shot in SLOG 2 or 3 ?
Thank you 🙏🏽
s-log 3
No, i need :D
hahahaha.
End use case and audience are big factors. If no one's noticing and it's just going on mobile for IG, the extra expense might not make sense. How much storage difference is there?
exactly. Massive difference in storage with 8bit vs 10bit specially if someone is using the new ALL-I codec vs older 8bit
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema good to know. Storage at these file sizes gets expensive fast
And where does 10bit 4:2:0 fit in all of this?
You can't show the difference between 8 or 10 bits because RUclips only shows 8 bits. That's what you said ;)😜
The difference shows it’s in tones and colors I mean this is not hard to conceptualize 🙄
@@wotiluv Basically, it's hard. Sorry.
@@videokreatorji no it’s not hard you just don’t understand WHAT he’s trying to show which is that if you start off with 10 bit vs 8 bit and RUclips broadcasts 8 bit the difference is minor in tones/colors which is slight regardless what you start off with. He’s not trying to show you the actual difference between 10 bit and 8 bit in camera that you can do on your own in with your camera by recording the subject in different bits. I’ve shot an entire film in 8 bit (with one sequence in 10 bit 4k) and finished in 10 bit ProRes as a Final Cut and it looked great when projected on a screen in a theatre with a high grade projector it looks pretty crisp and the high end projector brings out colors and tones of the film I didn’t know existed. the point is it’s all relative.
@@wotiluv I know the difference very well. You just can't make a comparison if we look at it in 8 bits. I guess that's clear?
@@videokreatorji AGAIN you missed the point of what he's comparing. Stay ignorant I guess.
honestly? i think the A7III looks better than the IV. in the beginning, i thought it was the opposite when you were comparing without telling which is which.
"How dare you!." - Greta Thundberg 😂😂😂
hahahahah classic Greta
The situations aren’t demanding enough to show why it matters. A good colorist could probably make 8 bit work but its much less of a hassle with 10bit.
Pls compare 12 bit with 10 bit please…. 😊
I actually was going to make a 16bit R3D raw compared to FX6 10bit until i noticed when in lit situations i was getting barely noticable diffence
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema Thanks Jason. The reason why I was asking was when I saw Sigma FP L's 12 bit footage. Its ability to adjust many things in Davinci is amazing, compared to Sony's 10 bit. I was wondering if I am wrong and hoping someone else take a look at it. haha.
I am a 8 bit guy. You don't need 10 bit 422 recording a toaster lol
I was shocked when making this video. all this time i was super convinced 10bit was miles ahead of 8bit
@@JasonMorrisphotocinema It is but most monitors in the world can't see it lol