The Single Feel That Is Most Important (+ the Key Difference from How Schenck Teaches It)
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- Опубликовано: 6 фев 2025
- In this video I talk about the small movement in the hands that enables you to start the swing correctly.
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I have been watching and experimenting with teacherman’s swing. One thing I have discovered is that it seems like I get more velocity out of the “snap” portion of his swing when I relax the top hand and manipulate the tilt of the bat with my bottom hand as I draw back the lead arm. By pushing it slightly back in the load the bat tilts forward and then when the “snap” is started it is from that lead arm pulling forward and up in the same direction, which slightly precedes initiating the motion of the palm up palm down turning movement of “turn8ng the barrel.” It feels 99% controlled or initiated by the lead arm as the top arm is basically just a fulcrum point until the bat flattens out and the turn of the palm up, palm down begins. It happens very quickly but instead of being muscled, it is very relaxed and loose and whippy. I don’t know if this is what you are talking about, but it seems similar in nature. Your thought?
@@willjames6437 the key here is that you are primarily using the lead arm and not overexerting the back arm. You could ditch the Schenck movements and still get the same benefits, and probably more. The artificial snap of the hands isn’t necessary. It should be a natural flattening that happens because the back arm isn’t overexerting.
I think Schenk’s method is excessively emphasizing that weight should still be more on rear foot at front foot strike and that the barrel should be moving down and back starting immediately at front foot strike, without allowing the hands to leak forward early. So many hitters do all of these 3 things wrong and if they 1/2 implement Schenks method then it probably results in a good swing. We often overreach a physical move or feel when our student needs to change. I think the controversy over his method comes down to the fact that he doesn’t realize or won’t admit that his drills work best if hitters end up half implementing them in their game swings. It’s like a sprinting coach teaching a high knees drill. When the sprinter runs, the knees are not as high as in the drill, but practicing the exaggerated movement helps produce a better stride during the race.
Agree. Definitely give the teacher man credit for standardizing a method that keeps a standard focal action.
So my interpretation of when you say gathering, that's makes a great point for the difference in methods. By using front arm humerus compression combined with allowing the barrel to flatten accordingly instead of forcefully snapping the barrel definitely promotes a smoother more accurate release of the barrel. Not to mention more than likely gathering with accuracy allows more time to adjust to the strike zone.
Another great video sir.
The part where you say the fast portion of the swing shouldn’t happen until just before contact and into the finish lines up perfect with what Ted Williams said: “power is applied Before the wrists break.”
Jamie iyo what’s the difference between bat path, bat speed, & bat quickness?
I agree with this for baseball.. my kids are in fast pitch softball and there just isn't time for the additional move you suggest.
Doesn't really make sense to say there isn't time to do a move. Moves can be done before you know if you're going to swing. Your's is a common statement in swing instruction and to me it's a misunderstanding, and leading to this completely still hitter who tries to all of the sudden move when it's time to swing. It's not necessary. Get movement going before you know if you're going to swing.
With vision everyone has a dominant eye if you look at an object with both eyes close on eye the object either moves or in place now close that eye and open the other one eye is dominant where the object doesn't move the none dominant eyes shifts the item slightly to a new location give it a try..so my question is since your looking at a pitch kinda with one eye per se with the way you stand to hit do you think at all the dominant eyes plays a factor in seeing the ball better?
Teacherman’s method always felt too stiff and jerky to me. Once I started practicing the front arm progression, I started getting the rearward flattening of the barrel in my swing without really even thinking about it. It’s not an action that needs to be forced. Snapping the wrists is not necessary.
I'm getting swayed
Three primary things make a great hitter, the rest are minor things - but 85 percent is made of three things.
1 - confidence
2 - fluidity
3 - being able to adjust whatever is stopping the fluidity
Everyrhing else is imprtant but pales significantly to the three other things.
You say that because you haven’t studied video. If you studied video you’d see patterns emerge and change your mind.
@@theswingmechanic actually, I played years of baseball and still play very competitive mens league ball and have studied videos. Ive read the science of hitting - and listen to it often before games.
If you are trying to hit the ball hard and square you will have to evolve your swing to match what the videos are all proposing. The only way to evolve your swing into a powerful accurate one is to be fluid. If you are not fluid you cant do it right - and this is an early point that Ted Williams makes, and hes right.
Its fluidity, adjusting for better fluidity and confidence and all the "right movements" flow from there.
The only one that might not fit that trio is that your hips should have a natural and slight rotation to the opposite dugout before you swing. This one is usually missed and if I had to add a fourth and more specific detail its this one.
That hip facing the dugout one? Be ready to start hitting moonshots
@@j5555785 What hitter would be a great example of the mechanics that you speak about.
@@danielhoward4566 any of them. You have to be able to hit breaking balls too. You can't do that forcing a technique. It all has to flow naturally. The whole game. The guys in the pros all have one thing in common - and thats the list I laid out.
Ted William's wrote a book like 60 years ago about swing theory. Yes there are plenty theory of swings. They're all have the same principles. The difference is style from strike zone changes and higher velos today. You couldn't teach like teacherhitterman if the strike zone was a 1985 zone. Open stances, bats close to shoulder are to protect hitters from 100mph inside fastballs.
I have come to concentrate on putting more emphasis on the palms of the hands by telling my young kids to get them palm up and palm down behind their torso. I tell them to let the barrel fall behind them rather than forcing it with a jerk. Is emphasis on the hands better or worse than on the barrel?
@@josephsorci2375 either one is ok but primarily they should just be able to go to swinging with just the lead arm to get the right structure.
Dude up north has a pretty good hitting theory. He wrote a guide called The Anatomical Flow of good hitting and he talks about the kinetic chain of events that happen while emphasizing where the recruitment of force is generated from (the 2nd/3rd class levers of the human body). He talks about the Point of Contact, flat plane. Wish I knew how to fully explain it. He uses slow motion video and references the Daryll Strawberry swing where I think he hits it out of the stadium where he points out the ease, effortlessness then flat barrel plan striking the baseball in the L position creating backspin and a magnus effect. Probably screwed up the explanation.
What is his name?
If Richard Schenck "actually has a theory of the swing" we're in a world of hurt. Nobody, absolutely nobody swings as he says. But there is a universal theory of the swing and it's called the "The Absolutes of Good Hitting" found in Charley Lau's book written 50 years ago. You don't have to like his book, but the Absolutes are the foundation for ALL the Swings seen today, including Judge's.
Judge swings like Schenck teaches. Hate to break it to you.
@@theswingmechanic Schenck? HR # 60. Judge’s stance is centered, he turns his knee in to load too his back leg and stride. When his front foot touches his hands are backs his bat ~45º. To start his swing, he PUTS HIS HEAD DOWN to contact as his front leg braces his weight and back foot points into ground. Schenck? Judge has a Lau swing.
You really have to approach this from the perspective of trying to train someone who has a pushy swing. Most people that already have a great swing do all of this stuff (flattening the barrel, palms up/down, creating lag, loading with hands back, etc) subconsciously. Imagine you're teaching a kid that has just an absolutely miserable swing. Like he does none of the "do this" check boxes and does all of the "don't do that" check boxes. Rich's method is to get a person like that to really focus on the feel of whipping the barrel so that they stop defaulting to pushing the barrel across their chest. Anybody that has a teaching method that produces a good looking swing from a student that previously looked horrible is going to have some version of teaching this and the differences between trainers are going to be relatively small nuances.
But his method is not very good. The jolt of the hands to start means that there's no chance of having loose wrists through the contact - a must.
@@theswingmechanic I don't see how having an initial rearward whip of the barrel has anything to do with the wrists at contact. Pretty much all of the best hitters ever will point the knob towards the catcher at load and immediately start to tilt it the other way as they turn the barrel in the zone behind them.
The knowledge about hitting gets recycled about every 10 years and from decade to decade new gurus basically repeat each other. There is a set of basics a good swing has to feature which is grounded in physics. And those basics can be practiced consciously and/or subconscsiously in such a way that they become automatic in game situations. The remarkable thing is, some of the great hitters have their natural swing, a different picture in their mind of what they want their swing to be, practice hitting accordingly and get an 'in-between" result that works really well for them.
For any hitting instructor It's one thing to recognize the flaws in a hitters swing, but the even bigger challenge is to find the wording and exercise that will actually lead to the intended changes/improvement.
Great hitters use gravity
Jaime, why don't players just start with their barrel already flat?
@@michaelallen1154 Better to take a backswing and flow through it.
The baseball swing is not based on theory's, but laws. Newton's Laws in physics, The Sequential Summation of Movement in Bio-Mechanics, Reflex Actions in Physiology etc. Teacherman's IDEAS do not qualify as theories. Judges swing is not new. Lau discusses in his book. DiMaggio had the same swing 80 yrs. ago.
It takes theory and application to gain a better understanding of the laws at work tho
@@patrickgoodman4576 What theory? Swinging a bat or club seems cut-and-dry.
Look at every video you showed (especially Griffey's slow motion). He doesn't flatten the barrel by moving at the wrist IMO, he flattens the barrel by slotting his elbow. Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you're saying?
Griffey does seem to flatten more with the arms than hands. He also gets into a position at the start that is difficult for a lot of hitters. Any way you can flatten - arms or hands, or both - is good.
Schenck? HR # 60. Judge’s stance is centered, he turns his knee in to load too his back leg and stride. When his front foot touches his hands are backs his bat ~45º. To start his swing, he PUTS HIS HEAD DOWN to contact as his front leg braces his weight and back foot points into ground. Schenck? Judge has a Lau swing.
I don't listen to what great hitters say, I watch what they do. And as for Hriniak, I'm still trying to clean up the mess he and Lau created.
@@theswingmechanicWatching what hitters do is only useful if you know why it was happening. If you try to turn what should be a reflex action into an intentional action, you'll screw everything up. That's where Lau excels, he teaches intentional actions not reactions as you seem to do. See Lau’s Absolutes of Good Hitting, all actions not reflexes.
@@theswingmechanic You say you cleaned up for Lau and Hriniak. In 1980 Lau coached R. Jackson, In the 1980s Hriniak coached W. Boggs. Today both Ohtani and Trout are from the Lau- Hriniak school. What are you "trying to clean" up?
If you have balance and ability to be very patient to wait for your pitch you will be a good hitter with any of the proposed theories by any hitting instructor.So many different approaches and there isnt one for everyone,no cookie cutter approach.Your absolutely correct in that the "Teacherman" has brought in a wonderful and innovative approach but there are different strokes for different folks.I like Tony Gwynns simple approach as well where he states "swing the knob and the barrel follows".The barrel flattens out early and it's in the path of the ball for a longer period of time and gives guys the ability to drive the ball gap to gap.
No teaming up here. Have you had time to analyze IBM? SCHENCK is flawed greatly.
Not really. Tell me about it.
Would love to hear Jamie's flattening vs IBM. Differences? Same concept? Does IBM require a tip?
@terryhumes IBM does not require a tip but you have to know why it's often associated with it. The key is to provide "space" that allows hitters the room to iniate the momentum or movt. rearward. Also acts as an early syncing mechanism. Also, it allows the lower half to be leverage more. Most people call this "separation". An object in motion tends to stay in motion. That's a natural law. I personally agree that front-arm progression happens. It's a byproduct of rotation forces. You see it very much so with IBM hitters. However, not all pound for pound guys had IBM. Pete Rose was not IBM. He only had 110 hr's. Take Oscar Gamble, one of his guys, he was a buck nothing, but did he have IBM? He did, verified by his 200 HR's and his 10.5 %k rate. The swing markers are very specific, I know. Begins with a vertical barrel and moves into a horizontal position BEFORE forward hand commitment. That's it. The key is all of the traits that come from this movt. action.
@@raptorhittingacademy8118 interesting. Another person who sees flattening action of barrel. I commend you. You’ve done your video homework.
Do you actually work with hitters, or do you just talk about what great hitters do?
I actually work with hitters. I have worked with hitters for more than two decades. I was the first Indy swing coach to help MLB hitters. Among those hitters was Raul Ibanez, Ben Zobrist, and Gabe Kapler. In the book, Swing Kings, the president of the Dodgers called my work with MLB hitters in 2007 -2010 “influential and instrumental.” I’ve also worked with a ton of college level hitters and helped them improve their power, but nobody hears about them. The first guy I worked with was myself 😀. Went from below .200 hitter in college to highest average on the team and second in home runs just from a simple change. Thats what set me on my path.
this guy spends all his time talking about another swing coach...says a lot.
What does it say to you?
Not all my time. Just some of my time, and I do it because it’s the popular method and I’m in the process of taking it down.