Very nice job pulling this video together and doing the research. I stayed at their place in Rutland last year when I hiked the Long Trail...I kept an open mind going into it given some things I had heard previously. Overall everyone was very nice and even though the restaurant was closed they invited all the hikers to join their private family dinners and breakfast. I did have a sense they are very selective and likely "train" the folks that are public facing. I noticed at least one of the guys was a rather young (early to mid 20's) and was an experienced thru hiker - I felt this was almost a way to gain commonality with potential recruits..just a guess. Women were definitely much more reserved and there were a few times you could tell they were cautious what they said when they spoke. One thing that struck me as odd - a friend asked a very pointed question related to free will. It was quite clear once you joined they could essentially send you. to live/work at any of their locations and the individual basically has no say because they are serving a higher purpose. Personally I think the idea of living in a community could be nice for some folks, but when you have little to no say and no free will that's another story. I'd encourage every thru hiker to go there for the experience but do so with an open mind - don't get stuck there as some folks appeared to do when I was there. Anyway that was my experience and some things I noticed.
Thank you for that detailed description of your experience. I agree in that everyone was really nice. Overall I thought they were an enjoyable group of people. It is a slippery slope when there isn’t a lot of individual say in matters as serious as where you live, do for work, eat.. say.
@@taratreks 🤣🤣.. that was my first concern coming into a Bahai home!! (In Lake Oswego, Oregon..) A dentist later told me "one dose last a lifetime.. " 🤣🤣.. ☆£☆... It is very good news, community can be hard to find, though.. May your family be a blessing!! :)
Oh man, I spent a couple nights with them in Warsaw Missouri while hitchhiking. I had bumped into them in Springfield and they told me about their commune, but didn’t mention the religious aspect. So I went and stayed with them for a couple nights and whilst there was incorporated into a recruitment routine that includes helping with chores, particularly the the garden, and all the yerba mate I could stomach. During the conversations they learned I was buying a small farm in Kansas. I was feeling a bit antsy to get out of there (because I really wanted to cigarette) and they asked if they could send info in the mail. I gave them my address and hit the road. A few months later a van load of them just showed up at my house! They really wanted me to join, presumably, because I owned a patch of 40 acres and an old farm house that would, of course, become property of the organization had I joined. As someone who is fond of all the vices, I sent them on their way. I mean, I may be a degenerate, but I’m also a nice guy who appreciated their hospitality, so they left with fresh produce from my gardens and an understanding there was no hope for conversion.
Personally I saw multiple red flags before you even got to the problematic part. Encouraging leaving currents relationships behind (cutting one off from family and friends) changing your name (erasing your identity to create a new one) giving them all your money and possessions (financial control). Cults are dangerous even if they are technically not breaking the law. And of course they are going to act nice and happy when outsiders are around. That's how they operate.
That's why,in my eyes anyway,the lines between religions and cults are blurry at best.I'm wary of either one.I'd rather stand(or fall on my ass) on my own.
@@dfinlen Some religions do,but just more subtly.They make the susceptible feel morally superior to anyone who thinks differently.That would explain missionaries and the plain old fashioned smug and self righteous.Pit religions against each other and it can resemble and arms race.
@@dfinlen Jesus said "anyone who comes to me must hate their father and mother" and "if you want to be perfect, sell your possessions and give to the poor, you will have treasure in heaven. Then come follow me." This was a call to follow a wandering homeless preacher into a life of asceticism with no jobs or care for how they might survive. The casual masses of Christians, Buddhists, etc., aren't really disciples, aren't following their gurus' teachings. They adopt a popular, watered down culture based on them. If Christians followed what Jesus said, they'd live as their monks do, same for the rest. This is a life of asceticism where you give all your possessions, take a new name, pledge obedience, and all the rest of those culty things our cult-ure sees as an affront to life as it is "meant to be" ... ie, the exact same exploitation with members exactly as blind to it. A spiritual life is vulnerable to abuse as such, but that vulnerability is a result of turning away from materiality, which is the foundation of spirituality, which is the foundation of religion.
Eh I wouldn’t call it one. The Amish don’t ride bikes either. It’s pretty obvious why they don’t want them talking to outsiders children when you see how kids act and are raised these days.
@@Markustempest the kids that they will need to be able to socialize with when they get older? In my experience the more you shelter someone the more they want out... Example: kids that live with extremely strict parents often go nuts when they are finally on thier own.
Fun fact: as a child, my parents nearly dragged me and my little sister into this cult. I'm eternally grateful that two of my aunts had done the research on it. Legitimately saved our lives. I'm sat here with my iced coffee and ready for this deep dive. I want to see what bullets I managed to dodge.
Pre-internet and I would understand how some might "accidentally" get wrapped up with them. Glad it didn't happen for you. I'm just baffled how current-day through hikers are so naive and give them any legitimacy by accepting anything from them. Their decades of child abuse, racism and misogyny are well documented at this point. Just look at all the videos of former members who openly discuss their theology on RUclips alone. Who doesn't research the groups that are "too good to be true" in the 21st Century?! It's absolutely mind-boggling to me.
Regardless of their beliefs the practice of locating along the hikes where they can prey on young people alone and possibly vulnerable due to the physical challenges of thru hiking is predatory.
Some of you don't realize there are people who come out to these trails with no direction or family they can trust or lack of family at all. Some people that never had anything decent in there life. Then when they get to a place like that they surrender themselves to that because it is better for them than anything they have ever experienced. I bet there are quite a few that lay down at night and are grateful they are where they are in comparison to what they came from. Glad you all have cushy lives with structure but not all do. You call it predatory some call it saving.
This is a very informative video production! I was a teacher and child care provider in Free Methodist church for 3 years. I worked, sometimes up to seven days per week, depending on what was happening that week. I taught ages 3 years old through 5th grade. I was the lead instructor for groups of up to 70 children at a time. I taught over a thousand different children per month. My expertise, was in working with especially traumatized or disturbed children. Not one single time, in that entire three years, did I ever raise my hand or my voice to a child. Never, in my entire life, has there ever been a justification for striking a child. To do so, would only be blatant admission, that you are not mentally or emotionally mature enough to outsmart a child. Every single dilemma encountered with a child, can be dealt with through love, patience, and teaching by example. I never encountered a child who posed a threat, but I suppose such a circumstance might warrant use of reasonable force to prevent a child from causing harm to their self or others.
All cults do two things: 1. Remove peoples assets so they are not independent financially 2. Isolate people from outside media and people in general .... Twelve Tribes qualifies on both counts... AVOID.
I think that's pretty specific, I would include Evangelicals, mainly Dominionists as a cult, specifically a doomsday cult. And also fundamentalist Islam/JW/Mormons
Early Christianity demanded a separation from family as well. You were to follow the teachings of JesusChrist and nothing else. All religions are technically a cult. Every definition of cult tries to make it sound like the big organized religions aren’t cults, but they are. Size and age and popularity of said religion doesn’t mean anything. A cult is a cult is a cult.
I’m shocked. This is the first I’m hearing of this group. What a bizarre story. These cults always seem to start out with good intentions. Then they seem to morph into absolute control, abusive, perverted, etc, etc. These children are in danger in my opinion. I would never support this cult in any way. Thank you for this video, well done.
lmfaoo. they are no different than our current government education (indoctrination) society in North America..we have a prison system based on lies .. medical mis information, forced vaccines..tax laws corruption, molestation and in canada is even worse child rapists are protected and given the best care , food and security .. I could go on ..
In 2000 I met a young woman who "escaped" from TT. Her parents hounded that poor girl for weeks until she turned 18. The things she told me about her experiences will haunt me for a long time to come. We ended up taking her to a friend's house near Weslaco TX. She stayed there for a year, changed her name legally and we have since lost contact since 2004. The mental, emotional and physical (sa) abuse on kids in this group is disturbing. They are predatory in nature. I cannot advise people more to stay away from YD's, their trail camps, and contact. The lack of medical care to members is had a terrible effect on her greater family. She unlike many new members had both 1 set of gparents and her parents within the group. She haf been told her mother's parents were dead. We found them living in Kentucky, they offered to allow her to come there but she decided it would only cause more drama.
@@jonyoung6405 Any reply with details would be likely removed for content unbecoming to civilized society. SA, DV, forced child labor not to mention mental and emotional abuse using extreme religious ideology as a weapon are just scratching the surface as to what she was subjected to the first 17 years of her life. I will not go into further details, maybe someday she will feel comfortable enough to share her experiences with the public on her own. All I can say is that what she told me in confidence was more than I was ready to deal with in my 20's. I had no idea what to say or how to help her. Even the gesture of a hug was frightening and foreign to her without abuse immediately following it.
My cousin is a part of this tribe. Heartbreaking. He couldn’t be with his sister when she passed away from cancer and although she’s not a part of the tribe, she did handle her cancer the way the tribe would… all natural treatment, (forced by my psycho aunt ) so I’m not sure how he could even shun her in that time. But his commune voted and he wasn’t allowed to see her. Why not come and pray over her? I dunno. It’s just a crazy thing to see your own family in such a cult… and now he’s a leader himself. 😔
Thats horrible! I'm so sorry. I agree other than I would agree I guess with them on the natural treatments. I knew someone with cancer who refused the hospital treatments and they lived. But it should always be a choice and who did they think they were to tell someone they couldn't see a dying relative! That's definitely a cult!!! And they actually call themselves followers of God
It's interesting my husband's brother has been in the 12 tribes for almost 20 years. Him and his wife and their daughter stayed with us last summer for a couple days and we went there and visited with them for a couple days in Vermont.
I had a close friend who had to physically escape a cult. The sharing of everything is a major red flag. She lost all of her savings, which she didn't get to spend, but cult leaders used at will.
Twelve Tribes is also working to engage with the live aboard and long term sailing community. They operate a 100+ foot sailing ship called Peacemaker that moves from place to place along the east coast of the US. There are Yellow Deli restaurants in several towns along the Intercoastal Waterway.
THAT bit of info is very very spooky. I remember the nightmare of Antelope, Oregon. One of the members became an employee of CA. State Disability in Sacramento, years later, still preaching to word.
This group has dangerous cult written all over it. The first red flag is trying to separate you from your family. Having said that…. I grew up on a farm and started working in the fields at 5 years old. It wasn’t abuse. My family needed me and I helped them, it was just that simple.❤️🤗🐝
Of all the things for somebody to take offense to, working with your family from a young age is the exact opposite of abuse, it is a gift... Provided you aren't risking life and limb too seriously doing it.
@@microcolonel Absolutely. Now, I understand there are abusive situations that happen. Some little children are worked much too hard for their ages. I’m not denying that at all. But you can’t lump all farm work by children as abuse. That is simply not true. Most farm families love their children dearly and are only trying to instill a sense of responsibility in them.
I was Homeschooled in upstate NY and at 9th grade I was given a choice to go to public school...there was one boy who started coming to school who was from a Twelve Tribes movement that had tried to start a branch or moved into the area. How he came to be placed in public school I'm not sure but I don't think it was voluntarily. He was very quiet and meek and a super sweet boy...hard to get to know but really respectful. Even to me at 16 which he would have been maybe 14? He had a lot of signs of a severely abused child. He told me that everyone's children belong to the entire tribe. The kids all lived together in a separate home sorta like an orphanage but then all the community was involved in the running of it; that would seem to contradict the idea kids weren't allowed to interact at all but perhaps different branches operate a little differently 🤔 He said he wasn't allowed to know who his birth parents even were. Some kids did know because they were told secretly but they wouldn't be allowed any kind of special bond or relationship. I'm not sure exactly what abuse was specifically but when the Tribe left the area; they left because local schools were very involved legally in the kids situations and because of that a few kids were removed and put into child protective custody...he stayed and entered foster care and was adopted.
I don't think that was a Twelve Tribes group your friend was in. They never have their kids in public school, they say it contaminates the kids. Krishna communes used to have children's houses, maybe it was that. All adults can do any amount of discipline on your child in the tribes, but they are your kids, and if you aren't "receiving" enough to admonish them properly, you can be punished; meaning, you don't get any days off, you have to work night time meal prep for the deli, or even get sent to another location to work away from you kids. The kids can NOT interact with each other. Yoneg was pretty adamant about that. If kids interact without supervision they can contaminate each other, so every time you see little kids hanging out with each other and they aren't family members, the adults will separate them. They can work together, and interact a little bit, but not much. You see them make shallow conversation while they work together, but they always look at the adults around them to make sure no one is mad, and they keep it about things they do, or are learning about mechanics, or jobs. The kids do have a special bond with their parents, and are required to show respect, but...this is kind of cool...everyone is encouraged to tell on everyone, especially the kids telling on the parents. So sometimes you see the parents breaking a plate, or otherwise screwing up, and they stare around to see if the kids see. Sure enough, little negotiations happen over discipline.
@@CS-uc2oh They have a lot more abuse than that, but yes, the kids minds are so fecked up over their parents. And they never get to interact with other kids in the community even. Of course they find ways to hang out and talk together, but it has to be sneaky, and it's always "wrong", so some that have left still have a child's social skills as adults.
Thank you for the nice video essay. very well put together. love the format. .. I have had a few run ins with them in the past. but not from the hiking community. i have seen them at RV and van life gatherings. they own a very very rare bus/rv thing. like only a handful exist in the world. they will take it to these gatherings to entice people to come in and have some tea. then when i joined the hiking community i find them at trail days offering free food and tea. .... hmm.idk. just screams jim jones to me.
Oh my, they gave me the tea at one of their restaurants in San Diego. I and the person I was with felt “drunk” or “stoned” for hours after we drove home. They said it was Yerba Matte. But the experience was NOT something I ever felt with JUST tea. Huh.
@@ladypaw Reno 911? They had a tea episode lol? Man, I remember thinking the yellow deli was great, and the people seemed friendly enough, but I am glad we got out of the range of the cult and drove home before the tea hit. Whatever it was it made us weird for a few hours at least.
Great research and reporting.. the 12 tribes have been around and recruited from the Grateful Dead community for many years .. it makes sense that they would target the hiking community
From what I have seen they use some pretty cool looking vintage buses to lure in people on Dead Lot and start a conversation. But it would seem that they mostly prey upon the lost young wooks that came to the show alone and with few resources. Likely someone just looking for a place to sleep or a ride to the next show. Next thing they know they're cut off from their family and working like a slave on a commune or some sandwich shop. Sadly, that might actually be a better option for some people than living on the street.
@@Brandon-em4qh Damn, extremely valid perspective I hadn't considered before. The victims of these people COULD be homeless. When you consider how tragic the conditions of homelessness are, does being susceptible to and joining a cult really seem that bad? I mean, I might disagree with their methodology, but would it be better if they were sleeping under a bridge high on heroine? Maybe finding a place in a cult is for the best for SOME people.
@@Brandon-em4qh yep .. agree.. i've been on that bus .. and for sure, their trip is a lot better than what some folks find themselves in on the street .. shakedown and others
Yup. As a traveling Dead Head back in the day I ran into these guys a couple of times at the Ithaca show. They seamed very friendly and inviting at the time. Glad I didnt succumb to their cult.
I got picked out by them in '90 Landover Maryland ....after hitchhiking to the shows alone from utah...got raped along the way.. i was a wreck when they picked me out on the lot...
What a great video essay. Thanks for the deep dive into the Twelve Tribes. We too stayed with the group at both the Rutland and New Hampshire hostels. For us, personally there was never anything amiss other than the creepy "far off" stare that seems to be inherent to cult members. However, at breakfast one morning there were two young women sitting at our table who were hiking a section of the AT. It was clear the women of the church were very interested in chatting the teenagers up and took turns, over the course of the entire breakfast, sitting with the young hikers and peppering them with questions and attention. It was obvious they were recruiting them. I can see why most hikers claim they felt welcome and had a positive experience staying at the hostel. I can also see the danger in doing so, especially for the searchers or the lost - of which there are many - on the AT and other trails the group has a presence.
There is a certain subset of hikers on trails like the AT who are looking for something or looking to get away from something, making them possible recruits for a group offering "answers". In my earlier days, I hiked to separate myself from society, reconnect with nature and to think without the normal distractions and I can easily imagine a pastural group being attractive to that me.
I guess it just depends on who you run into from these groups. The folks I ran into were too invasive and couldn’t take hint. Maybe some are less creepy, but no one would feel comfortable arounds the guys I met.
1st Coffee. 2nd, I ate at their restaurant in NC once. Couldn't put my finger on what was giving me the creeps. Now I know. Cool vid, keep up the good works. Stay blessed.
I stayed at a 12 tribes Virginia location in 2007. After a few days, and an aggressive 12 tribes member, flashing a flashlight in the middle of the night, in my eyes, I left. The mask extreme control measures, under a "mantle" of love. The 12 tribes is evil. Not joking.
Did the PCT a couple of years ago and Appalachia Trail is next on my list. So thank you for putting out this video. Very informative. I have run into these people before, at a Grateful Dead concert along the east coast(late 1980s I think). They seamed very hip and friendly at the time. I knew they were part of a commune but didn't catch their name and what they were really about. Anyway. You did a great job with this video. I will know what to look out for when I hike the Appalachia. Thanks
This has a particular poignant resonance with me and my experience with the twelve tribes. They acquired a lot of property and opened up a yellow deli near where I grew up in the past decade and my family told me about it and how wonderful the people and food there was, so a few times before the pandemic when I was there visiting I went there with them. The very first time my girlfriend at the time and I were pretty much being actively recruited by staff there and immediately my “this is a cult” alarms started going off full force. I expressed my concerns to my family and my girlfriend and they thought I was overreacting and that the twelve tribes were doing this wonderful work. I did not really press the issue as I had seen enough from there literature that they gave out and from my personal interactions with them to make up my own mind, but this video helped me realize just why my initial feeling was that something way darker was lurking under the facade of their public business persona. Thank you for sharing this information in an objective and fact based manner.
I started watching your videos yesterday by finding them on you tube. I am very particular about you tube content I watch. You have a great voice for video and presence! Keep up the good work and thank you for helping inform me of interesting information that will help me on future Appalachian hikes!
Thanks for this. I live in Rutland and used to visit the restaurant frequently. When I found out about the Tribes I started telling my friends and so many local folks have no idea what's going on. Of course thru-hikers who are often "going through a thing" when they hit the trail for the first time are perfectly vulnerable to this group's manipulations. Important stuff. Well done video. Would suggest that anyone avoid them - there is better things to do with your money and time.
I knew these folks over 40 years ago in Chattanooga. LOTS of accusations and problems way back and it looks like not much has changed. Thanks for this research.
First of all, I have watched both parts of this study. I very much appreciate the fact that you were fair and balanced in your reporting. Secondly, I had studied cults for many years and you were spot on in your assessment of the 12 Tribes. Often, in cults, what they say sounds reasonable but it is WHAT THEY DO that tells the real story. As they say, actions speak louder than words! I also recommend, as you do, to do your own research. Listen to both sides - but pay special attention to what those who have left have to say.
A very informative video. I enjoyed a double zero with them when I thru hiked in 2021. They were good hosts, but at the time I thought there might be a lot more going on behind the scenes - things they don't share openly with the public. My biggest concern was how the children were treated. They seemed to be happy enough but getting beaten with a stick 20 times a day is way beyond abusive.
@@davidgreenwood6029 taking a zero means to not home any miles. Doing a double zero means they took two days off and didn't accomplish any miles towards getting further along the trail.
Good video. In the 1960s(when I was a teen) there were a lot of groups "communes". Many made the founders wealthy. There is a chapter in Peter Jenkins' book A walk Across America where he spends time in one of those communes in the Tennessee area. Good Luck, Rick
It was the physical punishment of children and the extreme shaming that caused my friend to extricate her family. She got herself and her husband and six children out. It took her a great deal of strength to get out.
I went to UTC for a bit in Chattanooga and visited the Yellow Deli a Couple of times, before I knew it was owned by a cult. It was just a 2 minute walk from my dorm . The food was good and the place was so hobbit like. But the workers were always very odd, would barley talk to you . I remember one guy who gave us our food looked like he was in a daze. Haven't been back in a few years but I stumbled upon your video and its very informative !
Thanks for the heads-up Tara. I also appreciated the James Jordan video. I'm retired military, so I can say both of your videos provide good, practical, common sense advice and perceptions. Both videos are useful and fair.
My mother and complicit, compliant farther reminds me a lot of this group’s beliefs and behaviors toward children even though they did not belong to a cult. These beliefs about children do a lot of psychological harm to children and provides a lot of cover for the abusive parents. My mother hid behind the cover of not spanking your child is ruining the country and she let people believe she was doing what other people were doing by not going into the details of how she carried out her spankings. My mother (and father) was lucky she raised my brother and I in the seventies and eighties because my cousin treated her children the same way in the oughts and had them taken away. My cousin is not allowed to have contact with her children per court order.
your just passing on the right to forcibly confine children to the court system .. theres tons of kids in canada in the court system (jails ) called group homes .. they are beaten and forced to take medication, even put in mental hospitals ..most of them are just run aways and confused. now face years of court charges
So many adults come away from abuse convinced that they weren't abused because it was "just" spanking. Then they suffer PTSD and depression among other things. Childhood abuse/trauma affects brain development. *trigger warning for spanking with things other than hands.. Then their "normal" spanking stories include extreme pain, belts, belt buckles, paddles, wooden spoons, switches, yard sticks... bruises, being unable to sit, welts, bloody legs...the list goes on and on. There is almost no way that a switch doesn't cause physical damage. EVEN if it doesn't cause visible injury it's extremely painful. That is child abuse. Plain and simple. Normalizing it is extremely harmful.
Women do all of the cooking, cleaning and child care. Single women are constantly required to watch other people's children on top of their normal jobs and they are usually the ones who do most of the dishwashing after meals. Single women are also often the ones assigned to do the early morning animal chores and are the ones who have to get up at 5am to cook breakfast. When they go on tour on the Peacemaker bus, the women do all of the cooking for the men on the bus, and they also do all of their laundry. When I was there, the only leisure time I got on Saturday was spent sleeping as I never slept enough during the week. We all worked 15 hrs a day.
Working 15+ hours a day is not unusual in third world countries or remote areas of the USA. That much work might sound excessive to most, but rewarding to others. The key here is not to try to judge unless you have walked in their footsteps. I have not spent one minute in this cult, but have to admin that some of my favorite days on the AT were spent hiking 15-16 hours a day, which to many Thru-hikers can be considered to be "work". I don't advocate what I just heard about child discipline from ANY adult! That's a bit crazy IMO!
@LightWalker I lived in the TT for 3 years. It is definietly a high control group. Members are not given a choice with regard to the amount or type of work they are given, and single women do not have any "leisure time" apart from a handful of hours on Saturday afternoon. I was only getting 4-5 hrs of sleep a night, and it negatively affected my mental and emotional state which is why I ultimately left.
I stayed in the yellow deli on my hike last year. I had a great experience, i also helped them clean after dinner and make breakfast. Both the man and the women worked as far as i could see. I think as someone who grow up as a religious jew i think Americans, mainly white millennial “woke” kids are very disconnected with religion and how other cultures/ people live. For example both in Judaism and Islam women must dress in a certain way etc.. Just because these are big religions and not consisted of “White Americans” they are getting a waiver for negative effects they might have or cause to other people. This is just my 2 cents, The only difference between a religion and a cult is the size of it. as you have mentioned in your video.
@@groundflax If I was a man I would have probably stayed in the TT. The married couples retire to their room after meals. If a single brother is particularly zealous, he might stay to help with the dishes on occasion, but it is not expected and only the women are assigned to cooking duties, which includes dishwashing. I spent about 5-7 hours a day washing dishes when I was there. We also make all of the lunches for the men to take with them on their jobs.
Ehud, cults also do 'mind bending' to get control of the members. They would start that young, like the 6 months mentioned, to insure members stay. That's just a couple of more differences between religions and cults.
They tried recruiting me back in 2012. They weren't the weirdest cult I ran into around that time. "We're Christians, brother" will haunt me forever. Edit, let me clarify by "tried recruiting me" I mean they stopped while I was hitchhiking and we had a nice long chat (I didn't take a ride) but they did give me some papers and pamphlets.
@@davidgreenwood6029 "I’ve been involved in a number of cults both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower but you make more money as a leader." Well, I've had encounters with The Fellowship aka "The Family" (Not related to the rings, I don't think) and outside of Boone, NC this odd pacifist/religious family picked me up once. Oh, and I went to a Mormon church somewhere around Dallas in 2010. They're pretty weird even by my standards.
Friend of mine and I started section hiking the AT last year. We did a 50ish mile leg spring of '21 starting at Springer. (we've done a total of three now and just finished another section this spring and have made it to the Natahala Outdoor Center or NOC) A lot of thru-hikers were starting their hikes then. We ran into a Christian group, not sure if they were this group as I can't remember what church they said they were affiliated with, but they said they were going to be moving up along the trail with all the thru hikers. The group was nice enough to us, gave us dinner and breakfast. We had no interest in their church though and they didn't pressure us.
My uncle was a member of the TT for 15 years. Just recently broke out. I remember visiting when I was younger. Very nice to me, but my uncle has told me stories that weren’t so great
@@brerrabbit4265 They're not my stories to tell. But they involve a lot of abuse, forced labor, thought control, love bombing, etc. Not much different than other stories that people have told about escaping cults.
@@dylandolbymusic7172 I got all of that from my step father and worse, and he's an atheist. A lot of these comments seem to just reflect a general disdain for religion.
I think these are the same folks (the Yashuas) that used to hang around Grateful Dead shows with their custom double decker medical bus. The bus was cool, they were weird.
Glad to get the info before meeting the group. I grew up around the traditional horse and buggy Amish and my grandfather owned a small cattle farm so my views of kids working are vastly different than many. I learned several skills from working that I have in turn utilized in several jobs. I know people that grew up in their parent's garage and some turned into great mechanics while others simply putter in their own work space and save a ton of repair costs. There is nothing wrong with teaching children a skill and work ethic. Corrective punishment is different than abusive punishment. Abuse should be prosecuted. Isolationist interpretations of doctrine often lead to non-biblical traditions. Catholics, the Amish, and several denominations of protestants all form traditions loosely based on, or through broad interpretation of actual scriptures. While these traditions often convolute the daily living, you do have to examine the core relational beliefs concerning Christ to determine if they are harmless fringe, or bastardizing scripture for 'evil' intent.
Wow! what a descriptive and thoughtful comment. The last sentence you wrote is key. "core relational beliefs concerning Christ" I wonder about that a lot when it comes to what I am taught in my own non denom church.
In so far as working with family, I too agree that much can be learned. I personally am a strong proponent of organizations like the Boy Scouts exactly because of this. Kids need to experience agency in their lives somewhere other than their video games. Lord knows they don’t get that in school these days. Giving them the skills and abilities to exercise their independence can be achieved by having them help with things in a safe environments like around the house and even at the business. This was certainly the case for myself. Child labor is something totally different, once families are relying on their “dependents” for financial security, these children deserve to legally have ownership in whatever they are paying for. I know of a few people who have to essentially pay rent and make payments for the car that they drive but don’t own. The fact that these families also use this as a leverage points for manipulating these kids to never leave the households is indicative of potential issues that these types of setups create. It’s abuse, financial abuse. Were I to employ kids there is no question that they would get payed for their time, and have them work if they wanted to.
Our public school system no longer teaches God values (Love) but rather indoctrinates (brain washing and censorship) our future generation. How is this different from a cult? How has this been working out for our society? Destruction of self esteem, self worth and elimination of self reliance has led to expectation that the government should provide everything (new god) Result in lawlessness , homelessness, substance abuse and a disregard to human life. In my humble opinion both are controlling cults which one is working better for society? Or maybe it is time to go back to the basics and find our humanity again by Loving God and neighbor!
Impressive and well assembled video; Thanks :) Reminds me of time spent with the group "The Way International" a friendly group that used common tactics of soft mind control and missionary trips to isolate members from family and friends. Also, to indoctrinate them with the founders scripture interpretations. I was a poor fit because I kept using my mind ("natural mind") more than my "faith", and was exposing others to doubts. Eventually, I was declared possessed by the group leader, and It was mutually agreed that I should leave :) You seem very natural and pleasant on camera BTW.
I remember The Way! My boyfriend at the time, the late 1970’s, paid thousands of dollars to attend The Way Biblical Research Center. He was selling weed the entire time he was a student there. They didn’t seem to have a problem with that.
@@melstark7265 Yes, I remember their constant pushing of the expensive bible class. You were supposed to be some kind of transformed guru when you completed it :)
Ex cult-member here (mormon). For some more detailed, academic info on cults, how they are classified, and the specific warning signs and tips for handling/recover from them, look up Steven Hasson's Bite Model.
G’day Mate, this is a great video, my fishing mate and I are going to be heading over to the States next year to explore, fly fish and Hike along this trail. We have been planning this for years, except every time (twice) we were set to go I got cancer. But now I’m in remission we are getting bloody excited. Tis is the stuff we never get to read and hear about. Anyway thanks, I’m anew subscriber and will be watching your other Videos. Can’t wait to get over there! Cheers from Australia
Great video! I have 2 friends who were affected by that group. One of my friends had to be kidnapped out by a cult buster and deprogrammed over several months! He is still to this day pretty messed up by those folks. I have another good friend who escaped in the middle of the night with her 3 children! Her husband immediately sued for contested divorce and tried to get full custody. They had a super high dollar attorney so those people do have money! She fought it alone with no representation and only won because of the reputation of the Farm in that area. The judge in the end said he didn't want those children being brought back to a cult and granted her full custody! That being said she asked me to go with her and pose as her boyfriend for a weekend visitation the courts granted. It was one of their festivals at the Farm in VT where her ex husband lived. I went with her and got a good dose of what their lives are about. I can see the beauty of their lives but I can also see the oppression that exists in their group. And they do actually practice Christianity as it was intended by Jesus himself. He was a Jewish holy man that said to follow all Jewish law. That is what they do. So really they are the true Christians. But it is a lot deeper and darker than that! The amazing thing was they took me aside at one point and made their case for me to join their Farm. The actually offered me 2 of the women there. I was completely shocked AND disgusted. I politely got away from them and never left my friend's side the rest if the time I was there. They wouldn't say anything to me with her around! So yeah. They are definitely a cult! 100%! I guess if I ever decide to leave my amazing career and awesome life I can give up everything I own and all of my money. At least I know I will have a couple of wives waiting for me. Yeah right!
I found you somehow after searching "tramily" on the AT TRAIL, as I intend to hike my own hike for weight loss and improvement of BMI, meaning I will not have time or intent to bond and fall back to regular consumption habits. Then I run into your video. Harrummmpf ! We have Hutterites in Montana, and this all seems familiar, plus, my significant other is a biblical scholar. I need the AT for a track for my high I get hiking, but I have zero tolerance for young people who got trophies for attendance or believe in the old hippy customs (I know, I lived in Boulder, CO, during the early 70s). Thanks for the heads up before I hike the AT, probably SOBO in August from Maine. You have marvelous video and research skills, you should take it to the next level unless you are already there !
Wow...never heard of this group , till now...Never knew about these types of groups on the AT,CDT,PCT etc... Very interesting....a Cult without the URE.. (CULT+URE) Thanks for expanding the Hikers Situational Awareness... Be safe on the Trails.
I pulled out an IPA flavor la croix! And I'm right there with ya with feeling more comfortable and talking freely with voiceovers instead of on-camera speaking!
A couple of things that would be interesting to know about TT. What fraction of children born into the group stay as adults? What is their policy regarding contact between members who leave the group and friends and relatives who remain in the group?
Also , as someone with a family member in this tribe. I can tell you that because outsiders are seen as aligned with “the evil one” , they will lie about anything, in the name of god. Because they think we are evil, and that they must protect the bigger picture of 12 tribes of 12k disciples, across the world, to usher in the end of times as his chosen people who will be saved…. They will lie to protect that mission. Because they think it’s for the greater good and in servitude to god, thus making the lie “okay” So yah…. Nothing has changed, I would argue that they have become even stricter. They even corporally punish 6 month old babies for crying during service, they say that children must be disciplined from the time they are in a cradle. So yah…. It’s a cult. It’s sad. It’s not evolved and they do abuse children, still today. As well as brainwash vulnerable youth or young adults like they did my cousin.
This is well researched and appreciate the research sources. I am even more glad you took the time to not only the research but also informing the hiking community.
I grew up in Ithaca ny and the twelve tribes is active there, they had a cafe called the mate factor that was pretty good but I never knew anything about them and nobody I asked seem to know much either so I’m fascinated to hear more
I stayed with the TT down in Savannah for about a month..it was pretty dope. I was homeless at the time..but not really, bc walkin' for the lord! As a spiritual seeker they welcomed me right in. I really appreciated the morning and evening worship, song and dance. The food was always scrumptious and dining with so many was a treat. That community was about twenty strong and ran a different little cafe than the deli they are known for. But they also operate a remodeling business, so during my stay there we were out doing building type stuff..they have a wood/mechanic shop in Savannah as well where the peacekeeper bus is parked. OMG, that thing is incredible¡ Had I stuck around longer, I woulda been learning to weld and diesel mechanics. Since all the communities are connected I got to ride along in a supply run a bit over the border of south carolina..Hiddenite, they own most of a small town there..with a print shop and small farm. I met with dozens of the members there..of prolly 100 or so, and only a few of them had that weird programming stare. After my stay with them in Savannah I remained street living for a couple months, but I was free to stop by for breaky or dinner..hit up the cafe for some tea. They made me sandwiches and snackbag when I told 'em I was leaving. It's funny bc ppl wanna call them a cult, but really they are waaay better people than most religious folk are. All that bible stuff aside, it really is a lifestyle model more people should be looking into.
@@annettefournier9655 that's a good question, and one I still think about..their 'teachings' didn't think highly of psychology and stuff, so despite most of their shiny exteriors..there was lotsa passive aggressive shadow shit. I have lived in communities before, the hypocrisies we tend to have are so much more prevalent but few seem to notice, or are willing to change. If that makes sense? There's been bullies in every Utopia I've been to..lol I had just sorta figured out what it means to be sovereign around that time..at least I thought I did..I wasn't quite ready to turn my life to a Lord I still had so many questions about. They don't like questions that make 'em think.. but who does?haha Mostly I was afraid, and partly bc I thought I had a real opportunity to start my own little communal project in the Chihuahuan Desert.
People who abuse children in the name of religion make me sick. I was a victim of "cult-style" abuse from my mother. Even though she wasn't a member of any cult, we had a cultish style of life in our home. My mother was obsessive in her religious beliefs and severely punished me several times per day for the smallest things. In my OWN personal opinion, corporal punishment is only necessary when dealing with small toddlers who don't understand English yet. You can't tell them that running into the street is dangerous or that they'll get burned if they touch a hot stove so you spank them so they'll associate the situation with fear and pain. Animals in the wild do the exact same thing and it's a maternal instinct. However, once a child can speak and understand, the physical method of discipline is no longer necessary and becomes abuse! Just my opinion.
It’s never ok to hit children. Absolutely never. The harm being done to them is so great. We aren’t animals and there’s no excuse to harm a child physically or mentally. If you can’t figure out a better way to keep kids SAFE than to abuse them, don’t have kids-simple. That’s disgusting.
@@youfinallyfoundwaldo1364 what the original commenter is talking about is not abuse. Did you even read the comment with a rational brain? Because you are commenting on it with an extremely emotional one, and suggesting that any of us who were spanked as a children were "abused", which is simply not true.
@@youfinallyfoundwaldo1364 by the way. I never said hit them hard enough to harm them. You basically make a noise on their diaper and scare them. There's a difference between that and abuse.
I grew up in the area where this group started. The Yellow Deli still has a pretty strong presence in the Chatt area, both with the physical location (which is purposely located next to a college campus), and at farmers markets and what not. Growing up, I could tell they were different from your average group just because of how they looked, but nobody ever really talked about how insidious their history has been/beliefs are. I really just grew up thinking they were your average religious hippies, and I think that’s what makes them so problematic. They do a lot to present themselves to the average passer by as at least completely harmless, or as a good place for community. Standard cult stuff.
Not only are hikers more "vulnerable" because they are more open, but most thru hikers are working through stuff as they hike and everyone, hiker or no wants desperately to belong and be wanted. I am a Christian and their beliefs are frightening to me.
Excellent video! On my AT thru hike in 2015, I had heard about them, but decided not to visit…I just wasn’t interested. However, this video was very entertaining and informative. I definitely learned a lot from it and I think it’s great that you’ve put this together for thru hikers to be aware of. I’m looking forward to part 2. Good work!
I just had to get a screenshot of the comment count on this video being 666! That should change now, but I thought I’d mention it. GenX survivor of The Satanic Panic here, and I thought it was funny! Excellent video, BTW, with a generous hand at fairness, IMHO. Looking forward to Part 2. Thanks for posting!
Targeting thru hikers is actually smart on their part if you think about it. Many hikers are out there seeking something spiritually. It makes them easier targets.
I think spanking a child for squirming during a diaper change or hitting children is evil. Don’t have to do much more research than this. I hope the state will visit monthly to give those who wish to leave an out. Never heard of them and it is important that people do.
A German 12 Tribes group was investigated using hidden cameras. The German authorities found sticks used to beat children. I saw a teeny bit of a beating given to a young child. It was beyond upsetting. Afterwards the group moved to Slavakia where they were able to continue their practices. It is very easy to get away with child abuse, even severe, in the US, sad to say.
The last time I spanked my son, he was about four years old. I didn't find it effective and I could see in his face his defiance and confusion. I rarely to never had ever spanked him before and just never did again. I was far from being a perfect parent, but that is one thing I'm so glad that I took his cue and never raised my hand again to my son. He's 40 now and I have no regrets of not spanking him as a young child.
Crémant 🍾 ….Very informative video….your narrative style is very good…thank you! PS Hikers who want a cult-free experience can stay at the Inn at Long Trail in Killington instead. Plus it includes a hearty breakfast.
I have some suggestions. Reach out and I will tell you a few things after asking a couple things. I'm in Cincinnati, Ohio. I really love the format and your narrative. Geez...find me because you're way better than just another RUclips channel. It's mostly writing and English stuff that wouldn't even catch
As a trans person planning a Long Trail thru hike, im really grateful i found this information, as i would have been putting myself in danger. People claiming that calling something out like that is “closed minded” fail to understand that people like me put themselves in danger when going into unknown environments with unknown belief systems. i will be avoiding Rutland on my trek and I recommend other queer people do the same. The only thing im closed-minded to is intolerance.
For people interested in the "mind control" or "brainwashing" aspect. Please look at the BITE model to evaluate high control groups. Behavior Control (including when you have sex and with who, what you eat, how you dress, do your hair, etc), information control (what information are you allowed to access), thought control ("that thought isn't in line with what the leaders teach or wants--- stop!" Or just manipulation), emotional control (that emotion isn't acceptable, including even righteous anger, sadness, depression, etc).
The BITE model is VERY flawed and almost any religion can be twisted into the model. I've given examples of this before by applying Islam, Judaism, and Catholicism.
A cult is a cult. All are dangerous. Stay away, you never know when you might be vulnerable, especially when you are away from your normal support group/family/friends.
Christianity is also a cult. So is judeaism. That definition of cult is not the mainstream definition. The Colt is actually defined as any group of people of like mind who come together to take action on a cause which usually includes the spreading of a core belief structure shared by members of The cult. (Or something like that.)
@@kenkneram4819 Yeah, I don't find the definition of a cult being "small" to be useful. The biggest cult I'm aware of is the Catholic Church. The organizational structure is all top down from what I can tell, same as any cult.
The only difference between a 'religion' and a 'cult' is the number of people. They don't necessarily have beliefs that are more crazy than any other religion.
Cults, just like gangs and similar groups, simply prey on humans' innate desire for being socially accepted and part of a group. You will find that often members of these groups come from broken homes, etc.
As a fully fledged "Pagan" believing in the Old Gods of Northern Europe and being what christian churches would label an "apostate", I will be very much avoiding these people. Being both Pagan and a nature lover for most of my life, i have run in to several types like this group in my time. I had a few close calls in the 90's with some zealots along the trail. Sadly for them, I grew up rough and wasn't the type to be letting them get the best of me. The trail or any trail for that matter is amazing. But you have to keep your head on a swivel. Nutjobs, zealots, wild animals, etc are all factors when taking a journey like this.
Ok. But please tell me what sort of morality or spirituality "pagans" practice. I say this as someone who knows and respects many who identify as such. It's a fair question. Wicca is a very new, not a very old, construct that in my view needs a LOT of work.
@@suetrublu Like knowing this somehow tells you how a person practices those beliefs. Christian, Judea, Muslim all have wonderful ideas about being kind, forgiving, accepting. A lot of people not practicing those ideas. I think what is frustrating to people who are open about their spirituality is that people try to convert them. What are you talking about, Wiccan isn't old? The pagans of now, were the original religions. Christians were the pagans.
@@JustKrista50 "What are you talking about, Wiccan isn't old? The pagans of now, were the original religions." I know and respect many folks who identify as pagan or specifically wiccan, so don't take this as me trying to throw shade at paganism. That said, neither wicca, nor neopaganism in general are old. These are modern creations based (loosely) on what knowledge remains of the religions of old. That's quite the distinction.
great video! happy i stumbled on your content! if you have a stuffed animal of some variety, put the guy right on top of your camera and have a conversation with him instead of your camera! it will trick your brain just enough to give you a more natural feel while speaking!! keep up the great work!
Just a little point of contention: There actually is no curse of Ham by Noah anywhere in the Bible. Noah actually cursed Ham's son Canaan. Speaking of Ham...now I'm hungry....
@@ciaranofarrell4010 yeah it is a homer simpson moment. now can you tell me what kind of moment this is? (in a Bogart voice): Pork Chops and apple sauce....
I used to live at a hotel in killington, Vt, right near the long trail, I used to meet hikers & warn them about the 12 tribes hostel in Rutland. I’ve encountered these people at phish shows, widespread panic shows, dead shows, Central Park in nyc, Ithaca, ny, & Rutland, Vt. They have a huge presence in Vermont!
They have been around Chattanooga for a long time. However I didn't know they were also trying to recruit from Long trail hikers as well. Thanks for the info
We did have large political states that insisted upon religion. These were the socialist/communist states and they led to the largest mass murders in human history (over 100,000,000 dead).
At 7:25, I honestly don't see any difference between this belief and that of say, Buddhism, Islam, et al. beliefs which also have many of the same stances regarding lifestyles, up to and including grooming dictates, such as makeup, hair length, and facial hair (~11:00 or so). The same with "new names." Some major religions (see Buddhism again) also require giving up personal wealth and possessions. While some may consider these "extreme" views, I don't think its fair to use that as a discriminator. Also, while I don't necessarily agree with these people, I think its biased to call them "a little off." According to whom? What if we're the ones who are "a little off?" Again, I know you just mean "non standard" WRT the general culture at large, but your terminology matters. As another example, at 12:14 you say "it seems..." That's a perception comment. How do you know it conforms to reality? What examples do you have of them being "ultra controlling" (12:23), to highlight my point? "It CAN turn dangerous"(12:25)? So....has it "turned dangerous"? You say it your job to "put the facts out there responsibly," and I respect that, yet you then follow that with the statement "Do not take my opinion for fact." OK, but which is which? At 4:38 you define them as a "cult," a term with largely negative connotations in the modern age, yet you rely only on select eyewitness accounts in making this determination. Have you balanced these accounts with people who left the group yet who had a positive experience. At 18:22 you tell a story of a comment one of the women in the group made to you friend "Rascal" about becoming 'infertile' if she helped some of the men in the group lift a couch. On what basis do you assume that is a teaching of the group? It could just be someone making an odd joke, or employing some personal superstition, not a belief of the group. Yet you just assume it came from the group? Like at 12:12 you state "Hence, for some prejudice groups with racist theology, this justifies slavery, which in my opinion is completely bonkers." And which groups are those? At 12:43 "there isn't a lot of information on the internet that are super reliable..." Then why not look for better sources? "But, in my opinion, when the question 'Are we racist?' has to be posed on the 12 Tribes official website, then there is something deeper going on there." Says who? Respectfully, that's not a logical conclusion. Perhaps they felt the need to answer that question because they've been falsely accused of racism; did you ever consider that, or maybe even investigate whether some of the more outlandish claims against this group were even legitimate? Yet again (at 22:18) "If that is a teaching in the 12 tribes, I really hope its not." "IF??" Then you shouldn't insinuate that it is or even might be, if you don't know, and If you're going to post an allegation that incendiary, shouldn't you be absolutely sure of it first? Also, you never actually provided one single example of any "racist" behavior in the group, just broad generalizations about their possible beliefs concerning race. I wonder too, if this was a "non-religious" group (say a Humanistic nature commune group, for example) would you feel the same way? And if this was a majority Black or Hispanic group, would you just assume racism existed in it based on the same "evidence" you provide here? Do you see my point? Finally, what exactly about this group is "Dangerous" or "Extreme"? Nothing you described in your video fits either of these adjectives. Stephen Covey said it best in "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People," with 'Seek first to understand, then to be understood.' I've enjoyed your vids so far; this very opinionated, slanted, and speculative one isn't one of them.
My sister lives in Chattanooga TN, her boyfriend and her went to the sandwich shop. She said it was weird, the employees would not look at her in her eyes or speak to her directly. They would only communicate to her through her boyfriend. She said they gave her boyfriend a pamphlet but not her. Very weird.
Ate at the Yellow Deli in Rutland once. I, and my girl, both got very uncomfortable vibes from the place. Couldn't quite put my finger on it and would never go back. I trust my "sixth sense".
I stayed with them on 3 different occasions on my 2015 thru hike. Very friendly and generous. Never pressured or weirded out by them at all. Had some really good conversations with a few them just shooting the shit. I encourage people to stay with them for a night if you need a place to stay or hot meal. Good overall experience.
glad you survived the meal. One cannot know what they are serving. I mean, if they serve you tea, and it f*cks you up on the way home, what are they serving for 'food'?
This is the 1st I have heard of the twelve tribes .. an also my 1st time viewing your vids as far as i can see and hear u are doing everything very well 1,u are good looking,2you are well spoken, 3 you seem very comfortable in front of the camera.. so in my humble opinion you are doing a great job!!
"larger and accepted" is irrelevant to the definition of a cult. Every religion that has a community component is by definition a culture -- a cult. And large and accepted religions are extremely dangerous with a history of atrocity. So I disagree with your opening. But I still am grateful for any critical look at any such group, large or small, known or unknown.
I completely agree Tara...I like my space as well. I'm happy to help someone in true need but I value my privacy and sometimes solitude so I wouldn't fit in. Thank you for the information
During my 08 thru-hike, I stayed at their hostel in Rutland for a bit while I nursed my ankle and slackpacked. At the time, I didn't know, BUT .......There were two young girls entwined in the cult, both "promised" to be married to male members of the tribe. One was absolutely fine with it while another was doing her best to get out of the place, get out of the forced marriage and be "transferred" to their tribe in Chattanooga. CRAZY CRAY MANGO Croix pour moi.
There are no forced marriages in the Twelve Tribes, but they will often not allow a person to marry who they want and ask you to give them alternatives. It's each person's choice who they marry, but not every potential spouse is acceptable to them.
Wait, at 11:32, I guess that's a stock image. I've seen it on other videos. Pretty sure that's the cliffs along the Saguenay in Quebec. Anyone know? I haven't been there in thirty years...
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Very nice job pulling this video together and doing the research. I stayed at their place in Rutland last year when I hiked the Long Trail...I kept an open mind going into it given some things I had heard previously. Overall everyone was very nice and even though the restaurant was closed they invited all the hikers to join their private family dinners and breakfast. I did have a sense they are very selective and likely "train" the folks that are public facing. I noticed at least one of the guys was a rather young (early to mid 20's) and was an experienced thru hiker - I felt this was almost a way to gain commonality with potential recruits..just a guess. Women were definitely much more reserved and there were a few times you could tell they were cautious what they said when they spoke. One thing that struck me as odd - a friend asked a very pointed question related to free will. It was quite clear once you joined they could essentially send you. to live/work at any of their locations and the individual basically has no say because they are serving a higher purpose. Personally I think the idea of living in a community could be nice for some folks, but when you have little to no say and no free will that's another story. I'd encourage every thru hiker to go there for the experience but do so with an open mind - don't get stuck there as some folks appeared to do when I was there. Anyway that was my experience and some things I noticed.
Thank you for that detailed description of your experience. I agree in that everyone was really nice. Overall I thought they were an enjoyable group of people. It is a slippery slope when there isn’t a lot of individual say in matters as serious as where you live, do for work, eat.. say.
@@taratreks No problem 👍. Timely video and interesting! Should have added I was skeptical of their tea but wow that gave me a boost of energy 🤣
@@BearTrekAdventures I was also skeptical of the tea but man was it tasty
@@taratreks 🤣🤣.. that was my first concern coming into a Bahai home!! (In Lake Oswego, Oregon..) A dentist later told me "one dose last a lifetime.. " 🤣🤣.. ☆£☆...
It is very good news, community can be hard to find, though.. May your family be a blessing!! :)
They can also decide to send your kids (without you) .
Oh man, I spent a couple nights with them in Warsaw Missouri while hitchhiking. I had bumped into them in Springfield and they told me about their commune, but didn’t mention the religious aspect. So I went and stayed with them for a couple nights and whilst there was incorporated into a recruitment routine that includes helping with chores, particularly the the garden, and all the yerba mate I could stomach. During the conversations they learned I was buying a small farm in Kansas. I was feeling a bit antsy to get out of there (because I really wanted to cigarette) and they asked if they could send info in the mail. I gave them my address and hit the road. A few months later a van load of them just showed up at my house! They really wanted me to join, presumably, because I owned a patch of 40 acres and an old farm house that would, of course, become property of the organization had I joined. As someone who is fond of all the vices, I sent them on their way. I mean, I may be a degenerate, but I’m also a nice guy who appreciated their hospitality, so they left with fresh produce from my gardens and an understanding there was no hope for conversion.
Wtfff
@Laura D.... pretty weird, aye! 😂
I like your style. Please vacate the premises .... but let me give you some veggies while I kick you out the door!
Yo, that's greasy AF. Strange experience man
@@blueridger28 greasy lmaooo
Personally I saw multiple red flags before you even got to the problematic part. Encouraging leaving currents relationships behind (cutting one off from family and friends) changing your name (erasing your identity to create a new one) giving them all your money and possessions (financial control). Cults are dangerous even if they are technically not breaking the law. And of course they are going to act nice and happy when outsiders are around. That's how they operate.
That's why,in my eyes anyway,the lines between religions and cults are blurry at best.I'm wary of either one.I'd rather stand(or fall on my ass) on my own.
What religion requires you to any of these things? But I get the vibe. Religion has a culture and feels somewhat forced at times.
@@dfinlen Some religions do,but just more subtly.They make the susceptible feel morally superior to anyone who thinks differently.That would explain missionaries and the plain old fashioned smug and self righteous.Pit religions against each other and it can resemble and arms race.
@@dfinlen Jesus said "anyone who comes to me must hate their father and mother" and "if you want to be perfect, sell your possessions and give to the poor, you will have treasure in heaven. Then come follow me." This was a call to follow a wandering homeless preacher into a life of asceticism with no jobs or care for how they might survive. The casual masses of Christians, Buddhists, etc., aren't really disciples, aren't following their gurus' teachings. They adopt a popular, watered down culture based on them. If Christians followed what Jesus said, they'd live as their monks do, same for the rest. This is a life of asceticism where you give all your possessions, take a new name, pledge obedience, and all the rest of those culty things our cult-ure sees as an affront to life as it is "meant to be" ... ie, the exact same exploitation with members exactly as blind to it. A spiritual life is vulnerable to abuse as such, but that vulnerability is a result of turning away from materiality, which is the foundation of spirituality, which is the foundation of religion.
Every mo is a form of mental abuse
Kids aren't allowed to ride bikes or converse with other children, that's a major red flag of something weird.
Exactly the way leftists democrates won't let their kids play with republican kids huge red flag right there.
Big time red flag.
Eh I wouldn’t call it one. The Amish don’t ride bikes either. It’s pretty obvious why they don’t want them talking to outsiders children when you see how kids act and are raised these days.
@@Markustempest The Amish most definitely ride bikes. In fact they ride electric bikes now.
@@Markustempest the kids that they will need to be able to socialize with when they get older? In my experience the more you shelter someone the more they want out...
Example: kids that live with extremely strict parents often go nuts when they are finally on thier own.
Fun fact: as a child, my parents nearly dragged me and my little sister into this cult. I'm eternally grateful that two of my aunts had done the research on it. Legitimately saved our lives. I'm sat here with my iced coffee and ready for this deep dive. I want to see what bullets I managed to dodge.
Wow! Thank goodness for your aunts.
Pre-internet and I would understand how some might "accidentally" get wrapped up with them. Glad it didn't happen for you. I'm just baffled how current-day through hikers are so naive and give them any legitimacy by accepting anything from them. Their decades of child abuse, racism and misogyny are well documented at this point. Just look at all the videos of former members who openly discuss their theology on RUclips alone. Who doesn't research the groups that are "too good to be true" in the 21st Century?! It's absolutely mind-boggling to me.
Glad you were spared....did your parents still join and ate they affiliated with the 12 tribes today.
Regardless of their beliefs the practice of locating along the hikes where they can prey on young people alone and possibly vulnerable due to the physical challenges of thru hiking is predatory.
Some of you don't realize there are people who come out to these trails with no direction or family they can trust or lack of family at all. Some people that never had anything decent in there life. Then when they get to a place like that they surrender themselves to that because it is better for them than anything they have ever experienced. I bet there are quite a few that lay down at night and are grateful they are where they are in comparison to what they came from. Glad you all have cushy lives with structure but not all do. You call it predatory some call it saving.
Not everyone that steps foot on trail is a thru hiker. Some are just looking for a better life to what they came from.
Cults are predatory by nature, no?
Did you know that a cult controls virtually institutions? Freemasons include almost all famous and powerful people such as democrats.
@@breadlowry Satanic cults, yes. Democrats are a cult.
This is a very informative video production!
I was a teacher and child care provider in Free Methodist church for 3 years. I worked, sometimes up to seven days per week, depending on what was happening that week. I taught ages 3 years old through 5th grade. I was the lead instructor for groups of up to 70 children at a time. I taught over a thousand different children per month. My expertise, was in working with especially traumatized or disturbed children.
Not one single time, in that entire three years, did I ever raise my hand or my voice to a child. Never, in my entire life, has there ever been a justification for striking a child. To do so, would only be blatant admission, that you are not mentally or emotionally mature enough to outsmart a child. Every single dilemma encountered with a child, can be dealt with through love, patience, and teaching by example. I never encountered a child who posed a threat, but I suppose such a circumstance might warrant use of reasonable force to prevent a child from causing harm to their self or others.
100%
Bullshit. And I'm sure children run over you and you think it's mature to put up with it.
We need more people like you in this world
@@matthewcraig8926 thank you 🤗 lead by example!
All cults do two things: 1. Remove peoples assets so they are not independent financially 2. Isolate people from outside media and people in general .... Twelve Tribes qualifies on both counts... AVOID.
Sooo covid.
I think that's pretty specific, I would include Evangelicals, mainly Dominionists as a cult, specifically a doomsday cult. And also fundamentalist Islam/JW/Mormons
Early Christianity demanded a separation from family as well. You were to follow the teachings of JesusChrist and nothing else.
All religions are technically a cult. Every definition of cult tries to make it sound like the big organized religions aren’t cults, but they are. Size and age and popularity of said religion doesn’t mean anything. A cult is a cult is a cult.
Good thing you wrote "avoid" in capital letters. THANKS
YUP
I’m shocked. This is the first I’m hearing of this group. What a bizarre story. These cults always seem to start out with good intentions. Then they seem to morph into absolute control, abusive, perverted, etc, etc. These children are in danger in my opinion. I would never support this cult in any way. Thank you for this video, well done.
The own a 24 hour restaurant here in Chattanooga, where they started. It has awesome food
lmfaoo. they are no different than our current government education (indoctrination) society in North America..we have a prison system based on lies .. medical mis information, forced vaccines..tax laws corruption, molestation and in canada is even worse child rapists are protected and given the best care , food and security ..
I could go on ..
Freemasons are a cult. They include the president.
Sounds like any other religion
@@richeyrich2203 Exactly.
In 2000 I met a young woman who "escaped" from TT. Her parents hounded that poor girl for weeks until she turned 18. The things she told me about her experiences will haunt me for a long time to come. We ended up taking her to a friend's house near Weslaco TX. She stayed there for a year, changed her name legally and we have since lost contact since 2004.
The mental, emotional and physical (sa) abuse on kids in this group is disturbing. They are predatory in nature. I cannot advise people more to stay away from YD's, their trail camps, and contact.
The lack of medical care to members is had a terrible effect on her greater family. She unlike many new members had both 1 set of gparents and her parents within the group. She haf been told her mother's parents were dead. We found them living in Kentucky, they offered to allow her to come there but she decided it would only cause more drama.
What kind of things said , haunt you?
@@jonyoung6405 Any reply with details would be likely removed for content unbecoming to civilized society. SA, DV, forced child labor not to mention mental and emotional abuse using extreme religious ideology as a weapon are just scratching the surface as to what she was subjected to the first 17 years of her life.
I will not go into further details, maybe someday she will feel comfortable enough to share her experiences with the public on her own. All I can say is that what she told me in confidence was more than I was ready to deal with in my 20's. I had no idea what to say or how to help her. Even the gesture of a hug was frightening and foreign to her without abuse immediately following it.
@@Dobviews Wow..
My cousin is a part of this tribe. Heartbreaking. He couldn’t be with his sister when she passed away from cancer and although she’s not a part of the tribe, she did handle her cancer the way the tribe would… all natural treatment, (forced by my psycho aunt ) so I’m not sure how he could even shun her in that time. But his commune voted and he wasn’t allowed to see her. Why not come and pray over her? I dunno. It’s just a crazy thing to see your own family in such a cult… and now he’s a leader himself. 😔
Wow 🥺 that's cruel
So sorry. This is unfortunately a pretty common story.
Thats horrible! I'm so sorry. I agree other than I would agree I guess with them on the natural treatments. I knew someone with cancer who refused the hospital treatments and they lived. But it should always be a choice and who did they think they were to tell someone they couldn't see a dying relative! That's definitely a cult!!! And they actually call themselves followers of God
It's interesting my husband's brother has been in the 12 tribes for almost 20 years. Him and his wife and their daughter stayed with us last summer for a couple days and we went there and visited with them for a couple days in Vermont.
I had a close friend who had to physically escape a cult. The sharing of everything is a major red flag. She lost all of her savings, which she didn't get to spend, but cult leaders used at will.
Twelve Tribes is also working to engage with the live aboard and long term sailing community. They operate a 100+ foot sailing ship called Peacemaker that moves from place to place along the east coast of the US. There are Yellow Deli restaurants in several towns along the Intercoastal Waterway.
Wow !!!!! Intriguing.
THAT bit of info is very very spooky.
I remember the nightmare of Antelope, Oregon.
One of the members became an employee of
CA. State Disability in Sacramento, years later,
still preaching to word.
Same thing with Phish and Grateful Dead concerts, been avoiding these people for decades now.
This group has dangerous cult written all over it. The first red flag is trying to separate you from your family. Having said that…. I grew up on a farm and started working in the fields at 5 years old. It wasn’t abuse. My family needed me and I helped them, it was just that simple.❤️🤗🐝
yup!
Of all the things for somebody to take offense to, working with your family from a young age is the exact opposite of abuse, it is a gift... Provided you aren't risking life and limb too seriously doing it.
@@microcolonel Absolutely. Now, I understand there are abusive situations that happen. Some little children are worked much too hard for their ages. I’m not denying that at all. But you can’t lump all farm work by children as abuse. That is simply not true. Most farm families love their children dearly and are only trying to instill a sense of responsibility in them.
@ChaseLife²~215 Your attitude of shaming reasonable skepticism is EXACTLY the cultish red flag herein described.
@ChaseLife²~215 You’re still doing it my dude. Also there are literally ex members speaking out so maybe you’re the one lacking research.
I was Homeschooled in upstate NY and at 9th grade I was given a choice to go to public school...there was one boy who started coming to school who was from a Twelve Tribes movement that had tried to start a branch or moved into the area.
How he came to be placed in public school I'm not sure but I don't think it was voluntarily.
He was very quiet and meek and a super sweet boy...hard to get to know but really respectful. Even to me at 16 which he would have been maybe 14? He had a lot of signs of a severely abused child.
He told me that everyone's children belong to the entire tribe. The kids all lived together in a separate home sorta like an orphanage but then all the community was involved in the running of it; that would seem to contradict the idea kids weren't allowed to interact at all but perhaps different branches operate a little differently 🤔
He said he wasn't allowed to know who his birth parents even were.
Some kids did know because they were told secretly but they wouldn't be allowed any kind of special bond or relationship.
I'm not sure exactly what abuse was specifically but when the Tribe left the area; they left because local schools were very involved legally in the kids situations and because of that a few kids were removed and put into child protective custody...he stayed and entered foster care and was adopted.
I don't think that was a Twelve Tribes group your friend was in. They never have their kids in public school, they say it contaminates the kids. Krishna communes used to have children's houses, maybe it was that. All adults can do any amount of discipline on your child in the tribes, but they are your kids, and if you aren't "receiving" enough to admonish them properly, you can be punished; meaning, you don't get any days off, you have to work night time meal prep for the deli, or even get sent to another location to work away from you kids. The kids can NOT interact with each other. Yoneg was pretty adamant about that. If kids interact without supervision they can contaminate each other, so every time you see little kids hanging out with each other and they aren't family members, the adults will separate them. They can work together, and interact a little bit, but not much. You see them make shallow conversation while they work together, but they always look at the adults around them to make sure no one is mad, and they keep it about things they do, or are learning about mechanics, or jobs. The kids do have a special bond with their parents, and are required to show respect, but...this is kind of cool...everyone is encouraged to tell on everyone, especially the kids telling on the parents. So sometimes you see the parents breaking a plate, or otherwise screwing up, and they stare around to see if the kids see. Sure enough, little negotiations happen over discipline.
The abuse is not being allowed to bond with their parents... they did an unethical experiment of just that thing back in the day.
@@CS-uc2oh They have a lot more abuse than that, but yes, the kids minds are so fecked up over their parents. And they never get to interact with other kids in the community even. Of course they find ways to hang out and talk together, but it has to be sneaky, and it's always "wrong", so some that have left still have a child's social skills as adults.
Thank you for the nice video essay. very well put together. love the format. .. I have had a few run ins with them in the past. but not from the hiking community. i have seen them at RV and van life gatherings. they own a very very rare bus/rv thing. like only a handful exist in the world. they will take it to these gatherings to entice people to come in and have some tea. then when i joined the hiking community i find them at trail days offering free food and tea. .... hmm.idk. just screams jim jones to me.
Was it the Peacemaker? I’ve seen pictures and videos of it
@@taratreks yup. very beautiful
Oh my, they gave me the tea at one of their restaurants in San Diego. I and the person I was with felt “drunk” or “stoned” for hours after we drove home. They said it was Yerba Matte. But the experience was NOT something I ever felt with JUST tea.
Huh.
@Ghost-User..just watched a 911 episode last night with the hippie tea..lol
@@ladypaw Reno 911? They had a tea episode lol?
Man, I remember thinking the yellow deli was great, and the people seemed friendly enough, but I am glad we got out of the range of the cult and drove home before the tea hit. Whatever it was it made us weird for a few hours at least.
Great research and reporting.. the 12 tribes have been around and recruited from the Grateful Dead community for many years .. it makes sense that they would target the hiking community
From what I have seen they use some pretty cool looking vintage buses to lure in people on Dead Lot and start a conversation. But it would seem that they mostly prey upon the lost young wooks that came to the show alone and with few resources. Likely someone just looking for a place to sleep or a ride to the next show. Next thing they know they're cut off from their family and working like a slave on a commune or some sandwich shop. Sadly, that might actually be a better option for some people than living on the street.
@@Brandon-em4qh Damn, extremely valid perspective I hadn't considered before. The victims of these people COULD be homeless. When you consider how tragic the conditions of homelessness are, does being susceptible to and joining a cult really seem that bad? I mean, I might disagree with their methodology, but would it be better if they were sleeping under a bridge high on heroine? Maybe finding a place in a cult is for the best for SOME people.
@@Brandon-em4qh yep .. agree.. i've been on that bus .. and for sure, their trip is a lot better than what some folks find themselves in on the street .. shakedown and others
Yup. As a traveling Dead Head back in the day I ran into these guys a couple of times at the Ithaca show. They seamed very friendly and inviting at the time. Glad I didnt succumb to their cult.
I got picked out by them in '90 Landover Maryland ....after hitchhiking to the shows alone from utah...got raped along the way.. i was a wreck when they picked me out on the lot...
What a great video essay. Thanks for the deep dive into the Twelve Tribes. We too stayed with the group at both the Rutland and New Hampshire hostels. For us, personally there was never anything amiss other than the creepy "far off" stare that seems to be inherent to cult members. However, at breakfast one morning there were two young women sitting at our table who were hiking a section of the AT. It was clear the women of the church were very interested in chatting the teenagers up and took turns, over the course of the entire breakfast, sitting with the young hikers and peppering them with questions and attention. It was obvious they were recruiting them.
I can see why most hikers claim they felt welcome and had a positive experience staying at the hostel. I can also see the danger in doing so, especially for the searchers or the lost - of which there are many - on the AT and other trails the group has a presence.
There is a certain subset of hikers on trails like the AT who are looking for something or looking to get away from something, making them possible recruits for a group offering "answers". In my earlier days, I hiked to separate myself from society, reconnect with nature and to think without the normal distractions and I can easily imagine a pastural group being attractive to that me.
I guess it just depends on who you run into from these groups. The folks I ran into were too invasive and couldn’t take hint. Maybe some are less creepy, but no one would feel comfortable arounds the guys I met.
1st Coffee. 2nd, I ate at their restaurant in NC once. Couldn't put my finger on what was giving me the creeps. Now I know. Cool vid, keep up the good works. Stay blessed.
The one thats in Hiddenite?
@@skylarsartnphotography3450 No, it was near Hickory, NC. What a creepy place.
I stayed at a 12 tribes Virginia location in 2007. After a few days, and an aggressive 12 tribes member, flashing a flashlight in the middle of the night, in my eyes, I left. The mask extreme control measures, under a "mantle" of love. The 12 tribes is evil. Not joking.
Did the PCT a couple of years ago and Appalachia Trail is next on my list. So thank you for putting out this video. Very informative.
I have run into these people before, at a Grateful Dead concert along the east coast(late 1980s I think). They seamed very hip and friendly at the time. I knew they were part of a commune but didn't catch their name and what they were really about. Anyway. You did a great job with this video. I will know what to look out for when I hike the Appalachia. Thanks
These groups are so scary. Putting on a pleasant facade to groom and draw people in, but behind the scenes, horrific abuse.
I was horrifically abused by my step father, an atheist. Should we ban families too?
@@thehouseofcrumblingidols2694 yes, by all means
Frankly the moment where a kid is not allow to "play" it 's
a moral deal breaker!
This has a particular poignant resonance with me and my experience with the twelve tribes. They acquired a lot of property and opened up a yellow deli near where I grew up in the past decade and my family told me about it and how wonderful the people and food there was, so a few times before the pandemic when I was there visiting I went there with them. The very first time my girlfriend at the time and I were pretty much being actively recruited by staff there and immediately my “this is a cult” alarms started going off full force. I expressed my concerns to my family and my girlfriend and they thought I was overreacting and that the twelve tribes were doing this wonderful work. I did not really press the issue as I had seen enough from there literature that they gave out and from my personal interactions with them to make up my own mind, but this video helped me realize just why my initial feeling was that something way darker was lurking under the facade of their public business persona. Thank you for sharing this information in an objective and fact based manner.
I started watching your videos yesterday by finding them on you tube. I am very particular about you tube content I watch. You have a great voice for video and presence! Keep up the good work and thank you for helping inform me of interesting information that will help me on future Appalachian hikes!
Thanks for this. I live in Rutland and used to visit the restaurant frequently. When I found out about the Tribes I started telling my friends and so many local folks have no idea what's going on. Of course thru-hikers who are often "going through a thing" when they hit the trail for the first time are perfectly vulnerable to this group's manipulations. Important stuff. Well done video. Would suggest that anyone avoid them - there is better things to do with your money and time.
I knew these folks over 40 years ago in Chattanooga. LOTS of accusations and problems way back and it looks like not much has changed. Thanks for this research.
First of all, I have watched both parts of this study. I very much appreciate the fact that you were fair and balanced in your reporting. Secondly, I had studied cults for many years and you were spot on in your assessment of the 12 Tribes. Often, in cults, what they say sounds reasonable but it is WHAT THEY DO that tells the real story. As they say, actions speak louder than words! I also recommend, as you do, to do your own research. Listen to both sides - but pay special attention to what those who have left have to say.
Agreed.
A very informative video. I enjoyed a double zero with them when I thru hiked in 2021. They were good hosts, but at the time I thought there might be a lot more going on behind the scenes - things they don't share openly with the public. My biggest concern was how the children were treated. They seemed to be happy enough but getting beaten with a stick 20 times a day is way beyond abusive.
What does double zero mean?
@@davidgreenwood6029 taking a zero means to not home any miles. Doing a double zero means they took two days off and didn't accomplish any miles towards getting further along the trail.
You saw them beat children 20+ times in a day, or you're just spreading hearsay?
Good video. In the 1960s(when I was a teen) there were a lot of groups "communes". Many made the founders wealthy. There is a chapter in Peter Jenkins' book A walk Across America where he spends time in one of those communes in the Tennessee area. Good Luck, Rick
Rick, thanks for your comment😊
It was the physical punishment of children and the extreme shaming that caused my friend to extricate her family. She got herself and her husband and six children out. It took her a great deal of strength to get out.
I went to UTC for a bit in Chattanooga and visited the Yellow Deli a Couple of times, before I knew it was owned by a cult. It was just a 2 minute walk from my dorm . The food was good and the place was so hobbit like. But the workers were always very odd, would barley talk to you . I remember one guy who gave us our food looked like he was in a daze. Haven't been back in a few years but I stumbled upon your video and its very informative !
I’m so sorry you had such a horrible experience Karen.
I mean Holley
@@jamesramsey3572 oh I wasn't mad about them not talking . The waiter seemed like he was just out of it. The food was always good !
Thanks for the heads-up Tara. I also appreciated the James Jordan video. I'm retired military, so I can say both of your videos provide good, practical, common sense advice and perceptions. Both videos are useful and fair.
My mother and complicit, compliant farther reminds me a lot of this group’s beliefs and behaviors toward children even though they did not belong to a cult. These beliefs about children do a lot of psychological harm to children and provides a lot of cover for the abusive parents. My mother hid behind the cover of not spanking your child is ruining the country and she let people believe she was doing what other people were doing by not going into the details of how she carried out her spankings.
My mother (and father) was lucky she raised my brother and I in the seventies and eighties because my cousin treated her children the same way in the oughts and had them taken away. My cousin is not allowed to have contact with her children per court order.
Wow, thank you for telling your story.
your just passing on the right to forcibly confine children to the court system .. theres tons of kids in canada in the court system (jails ) called group homes .. they are beaten and forced to take medication, even put in mental hospitals ..most of them are just run aways and confused. now face years of court charges
So many adults come away from abuse convinced that they weren't abused because it was "just" spanking. Then they suffer PTSD and depression among other things.
Childhood abuse/trauma affects brain development.
*trigger warning for spanking with things other than hands..
Then their "normal" spanking stories include extreme pain, belts, belt buckles, paddles, wooden spoons, switches, yard sticks... bruises, being unable to sit, welts, bloody legs...the list goes on and on.
There is almost no way that a switch doesn't cause physical damage. EVEN if it doesn't cause visible injury it's extremely painful.
That is child abuse. Plain and simple. Normalizing it is extremely harmful.
Women do all of the cooking, cleaning and child care. Single women are constantly required to watch other people's children on top of their normal jobs and they are usually the ones who do most of the dishwashing after meals. Single women are also often the ones assigned to do the early morning animal chores and are the ones who have to get up at 5am to cook breakfast. When they go on tour on the Peacemaker bus, the women do all of the cooking for the men on the bus, and they also do all of their laundry. When I was there, the only leisure time I got on Saturday was spent sleeping as I never slept enough during the week. We all worked 15 hrs a day.
Working 15+ hours a day is not unusual in third world countries or remote areas of the USA. That much work might sound excessive to most, but rewarding to others. The key here is not to try to judge unless you have walked in their footsteps. I have not spent one minute in this cult, but have to admin that some of my favorite days on the AT were spent hiking 15-16 hours a day, which to many Thru-hikers can be considered to be "work". I don't advocate what I just heard about child discipline from ANY adult! That's a bit crazy IMO!
@LightWalker I lived in the TT for 3 years. It is definietly a high control group. Members are not given a choice with regard to the amount or type of work they are given, and single women do not have any "leisure time" apart from a handful of hours on Saturday afternoon. I was only getting 4-5 hrs of sleep a night, and it negatively affected my mental and emotional state which is why I ultimately left.
I stayed in the yellow deli on my hike last year.
I had a great experience, i also helped them clean after dinner and make breakfast. Both the man and the women worked as far as i could see.
I think as someone who grow up as a religious jew i think Americans, mainly white millennial “woke” kids are very disconnected with religion and how other cultures/ people live.
For example both in Judaism and Islam women must dress in a certain way etc..
Just because these are big religions and not consisted of “White Americans” they are getting a waiver for negative effects they might have or cause to other people.
This is just my 2 cents,
The only difference between a religion and a cult is the size of it. as you have mentioned in your video.
@@groundflax If I was a man I would have probably stayed in the TT. The married couples retire to their room after meals. If a single brother is particularly zealous, he might stay to help with the dishes on occasion, but it is not expected and only the women are assigned to cooking duties, which includes dishwashing. I spent about 5-7 hours a day washing dishes when I was there. We also make all of the lunches for the men to take with them on their jobs.
Ehud, cults also do 'mind bending' to get control of the members. They would start that young, like the 6 months mentioned, to insure members stay. That's just a couple of more differences between religions and cults.
They tried recruiting me back in 2012. They weren't the weirdest cult I ran into around that time. "We're Christians, brother" will haunt me forever.
Edit, let me clarify by "tried recruiting me" I mean they stopped while I was hitchhiking and we had a nice long chat (I didn't take a ride) but they did give me some papers and pamphlets.
OK, well now I gotta ask, how many cults were you running into and what were the wierder ones?
@@davidgreenwood6029 "I’ve been involved in a number of cults both as a leader and a follower. You have more fun as a follower but you make more money as a leader."
Well, I've had encounters with The Fellowship aka "The Family" (Not related to the rings, I don't think) and outside of Boone, NC this odd pacifist/religious family picked me up once. Oh, and I went to a Mormon church somewhere around Dallas in 2010. They're pretty weird even by my standards.
Sounds absolutely terrible!
Friend of mine and I started section hiking the AT last year. We did a 50ish mile leg spring of '21 starting at Springer. (we've done a total of three now and just finished another section this spring and have made it to the Natahala Outdoor Center or NOC) A lot of thru-hikers were starting their hikes then. We ran into a Christian group, not sure if they were this group as I can't remember what church they said they were affiliated with, but they said they were going to be moving up along the trail with all the thru hikers. The group was nice enough to us, gave us dinner and breakfast. We had no interest in their church though and they didn't pressure us.
My uncle was a member of the TT for 15 years. Just recently broke out. I remember visiting when I was younger. Very nice to me, but my uncle has told me stories that weren’t so great
Those would be interesting stories I bet.
@@fendermon yeah would like to hear stories from someone that was in it.
Then tell us or why bring it up?
@@brerrabbit4265 They're not my stories to tell. But they involve a lot of abuse, forced labor, thought control, love bombing, etc. Not much different than other stories that people have told about escaping cults.
@@dylandolbymusic7172 I got all of that from my step father and worse, and he's an atheist. A lot of these comments seem to just reflect a general disdain for religion.
I think these are the same folks (the Yashuas) that used to hang around Grateful Dead shows with their custom double decker medical bus. The bus was cool, they were weird.
Glad to get the info before meeting the group. I grew up around the traditional horse and buggy Amish and my grandfather owned a small cattle farm so my views of kids working are vastly different than many. I learned several skills from working that I have in turn utilized in several jobs. I know people that grew up in their parent's garage and some turned into great mechanics while others simply putter in their own work space and save a ton of repair costs. There is nothing wrong with teaching children a skill and work ethic. Corrective punishment is different than abusive punishment. Abuse should be prosecuted. Isolationist interpretations of doctrine often lead to non-biblical traditions. Catholics, the Amish, and several denominations of protestants all form traditions loosely based on, or through broad interpretation of actual scriptures. While these traditions often convolute the daily living, you do have to examine the core relational beliefs concerning Christ to determine if they are harmless fringe, or bastardizing scripture for 'evil' intent.
Wow! what a descriptive and thoughtful comment. The last sentence you wrote is key. "core relational beliefs concerning Christ" I wonder about that a lot when it comes to what I am taught in my own non denom church.
This is what I was thinking.
Where would without you? 😆
In so far as working with family, I too agree that much can be learned. I personally am a strong proponent of organizations like the Boy Scouts exactly because of this.
Kids need to experience agency in their lives somewhere other than their video games. Lord knows they don’t get that in school these days. Giving them the skills and abilities to exercise their independence can be achieved by having them help with things in a safe environments like around the house and even at the business. This was certainly the case for myself.
Child labor is something totally different, once families are relying on their “dependents” for financial security, these children deserve to legally have ownership in whatever they are paying for.
I know of a few people who have to essentially pay rent and make payments for the car that they drive but don’t own. The fact that these families also use this as a leverage points for manipulating these kids to never leave the households is indicative of potential issues that these types of setups create. It’s abuse, financial abuse.
Were I to employ kids there is no question that they would get payed for their time, and have them work if they wanted to.
Our public school system no longer teaches God values (Love) but rather indoctrinates (brain washing and censorship) our future generation. How is this different from a cult? How has this been working out for our society? Destruction of self esteem, self worth and elimination of self reliance has led to expectation that the government should provide everything (new god) Result in lawlessness , homelessness, substance abuse and a disregard to human life. In my humble opinion both are controlling cults which one is working better for society? Or maybe it is time to go back to the basics and find our humanity again by Loving God and neighbor!
Great content and informative. I didn’t know this existed along the trails.
The twelve tribes is also currently under investigation for starting the Marshall Fire in Superior, CO which burned down hundreds of homes.
I did not know that. That's very disturbing to say the very least.
Whatttt
I found your video very interesting. I look forward to watching part two. Thank You for bringing this to light.
Impressive and well assembled video; Thanks :)
Reminds me of time spent with the group "The Way International" a friendly group that used common tactics of soft mind control and missionary trips to isolate members from family and friends. Also, to indoctrinate them with the founders scripture interpretations. I was a poor fit because I kept using my mind ("natural mind") more than my "faith", and was exposing others to doubts. Eventually, I was declared possessed by the group leader, and It was mutually agreed that I should leave :) You seem very natural and pleasant on camera BTW.
I remember The Way! My boyfriend at the time, the late 1970’s, paid thousands of dollars to attend The Way Biblical Research Center. He was selling weed the entire time he was a student there. They didn’t seem to have a problem with that.
@@melstark7265 Yes, I remember their constant pushing of the expensive bible class. You were supposed to be some kind of transformed guru when you completed it :)
you were possessed so you had to leave. Good. They were the possessed ones. Lol.
The house at 12:12 is in my neighborhood, LOL. They are pretty aggressive in their recruiting here.
Ex cult-member here (mormon).
For some more detailed, academic info on cults, how they are classified, and the specific warning signs and tips for handling/recover from them, look up Steven Hasson's Bite Model.
The BITE model can apply to any religion.
G’day Mate, this is a great video, my fishing mate and I are going to be heading over to the States next year to explore, fly fish and Hike along this trail. We have been planning this for years, except every time (twice) we were set to go I got cancer. But now I’m in remission we are getting bloody excited. Tis is the stuff we never get to read and hear about. Anyway thanks, I’m anew subscriber and will be watching your other Videos. Can’t wait to get over there! Cheers from Australia
Great video! I have 2 friends who were affected by that group. One of my friends had to be kidnapped out by a cult buster and deprogrammed over several months! He is still to this day pretty messed up by those folks.
I have another good friend who escaped in the middle of the night with her 3 children! Her husband immediately sued for contested divorce and tried to get full custody. They had a super high dollar attorney so those people do have money! She fought it alone with no representation and only won because of the reputation of the Farm in that area. The judge in the end said he didn't want those children being brought back to a cult and granted her full custody!
That being said she asked me to go with her and pose as her boyfriend for a weekend visitation the courts granted. It was one of their festivals at the Farm in VT where her ex husband lived. I went with her and got a good dose of what their lives are about. I can see the beauty of their lives but I can also see the oppression that exists in their group. And they do actually practice Christianity as it was intended by Jesus himself. He was a Jewish holy man that said to follow all Jewish law. That is what they do. So really they are the true Christians. But it is a lot deeper and darker than that!
The amazing thing was they took me aside at one point and made their case for me to join their Farm. The actually offered me 2 of the women there. I was completely shocked AND disgusted. I politely got away from them and never left my friend's side the rest if the time I was there. They wouldn't say anything to me with her around! So yeah. They are definitely a cult! 100%!
I guess if I ever decide to leave my amazing career and awesome life I can give up everything I own and all of my money. At least I know I will have a couple of wives waiting for me. Yeah right!
Jesus didn't say to follow Jewish law he redefined it.
I found you somehow after searching "tramily" on the AT TRAIL, as I intend to hike my own hike for weight loss and improvement of BMI, meaning I will not have time or intent to bond and fall back to regular consumption habits.
Then I run into your video. Harrummmpf ! We have Hutterites in Montana, and this all seems familiar, plus, my significant other is a biblical scholar.
I need the AT for a track for my high I get hiking, but I have zero tolerance for young people who got trophies for attendance or believe in the old hippy customs (I know, I lived in Boulder, CO, during the early 70s).
Thanks for the heads up before I hike the AT, probably SOBO in August from Maine.
You have marvelous video and research skills, you should take it to the next level unless you are already there !
Thank you! This is a very encouraging comment. Good luck on your sobo hike
Great video, I never heard anything about the 12 tribes but it was a very interesting and informative video, Tara you did a great job !
Very Brave of you for compiling and sharing. Thank you for exposing.
Thank you for watching!
The child beatings starting at 6 months, and not letting them play with each other is so disgusting.
From that one picture (7:00-ish), looks like they could use a banjo player. Or maybe two.
Wow...never heard of this group , till now...Never knew about these types of groups on the AT,CDT,PCT etc...
Very interesting....a Cult without the URE..
(CULT+URE)
Thanks for expanding the Hikers Situational Awareness...
Be safe on the Trails.
Glad you enjoyed it
Take it with a grain of salt.
I pulled out an IPA flavor la croix! And I'm right there with ya with feeling more comfortable and talking freely with voiceovers instead of on-camera speaking!
Wow, very interesting topic. I look forward to part 2.
Thank you! It will premiere next Thursday at 7pm
25:12 Where are those Waterfalls at or do they have a name and I'll research? Thanks
I found this drone video online, sorry no info for where they are.
A couple of things that would be interesting to know about TT. What fraction of children born into the group stay as adults? What is their policy regarding contact between members who leave the group and friends and relatives who remain in the group?
Also , as someone with a family member in this tribe. I can tell you that because outsiders are seen as aligned with “the evil one” , they will lie about anything, in the name of god. Because they think we are evil, and that they must protect the bigger picture of 12 tribes of 12k disciples, across the world, to usher in the end of times as his chosen people who will be saved…. They will lie to protect that mission. Because they think it’s for the greater good and in servitude to god, thus making the lie “okay”
So yah…. Nothing has changed, I would argue that they have become even stricter. They even corporally punish 6 month old babies for crying during service, they say that children must be disciplined from the time they are in a cradle. So yah…. It’s a cult. It’s sad. It’s not evolved and they do abuse children, still today. As well as brainwash vulnerable youth or young adults like they did my cousin.
This is well researched and appreciate the research sources. I am even more glad you took the time to not only the research but also informing the hiking community.
Thank you Gatekeeper!
I grew up in Ithaca ny and the twelve tribes is active there, they had a cafe called the mate factor that was pretty good but I never knew anything about them and nobody I asked seem to know much either so I’m fascinated to hear more
I stayed with the TT down in Savannah for about a month..it was pretty dope. I was homeless at the time..but not really, bc walkin' for the lord! As a spiritual seeker they welcomed me right in.
I really appreciated the morning and evening worship, song and dance.
The food was always scrumptious and dining with so many was a treat.
That community was about twenty strong and ran a different little cafe than the deli they are known for.
But they also operate a remodeling business, so during my stay there we were out doing building type stuff..they have a wood/mechanic shop in Savannah as well where the peacekeeper bus is parked. OMG, that thing is incredible¡
Had I stuck around longer, I woulda been learning to weld and diesel mechanics.
Since all the communities are connected I got to ride along in a supply run a bit over the border of south carolina..Hiddenite, they own most of a small town there..with a print shop and small farm.
I met with dozens of the members there..of prolly 100 or so, and only a few of them had that weird programming stare.
After my stay with them in Savannah I remained street living for a couple months, but I was free to stop by for breaky or dinner..hit up the cafe for some tea.
They made me sandwiches and snackbag when I told 'em I was leaving.
It's funny bc ppl wanna call them a cult, but really they are waaay better people than most religious folk are.
All that bible stuff aside, it really is a lifestyle model more people should be looking into.
Thank you for commenting your experience!
Was Baruch there at the time?
So why didn't you stay and become part of the construct?
@@annettefournier9655 did you stay for a while?
@@annettefournier9655 that's a good question, and one I still think about..their 'teachings' didn't think highly of psychology and stuff, so despite most of their shiny exteriors..there was lotsa passive aggressive shadow shit.
I have lived in communities before, the hypocrisies we tend to have are so much more prevalent but few seem to notice, or are willing to change. If that makes sense?
There's been bullies in every Utopia I've been to..lol
I had just sorta figured out what it means to be sovereign around that time..at least I thought I did..I wasn't quite ready to turn my life to a Lord I still had so many questions about. They don't like questions that make 'em think.. but who does?haha
Mostly I was afraid, and partly bc I thought I had a real opportunity to start my own little communal project in the Chihuahuan Desert.
People who abuse children in the name of religion make me sick. I was a victim of "cult-style" abuse from my mother. Even though she wasn't a member of any cult, we had a cultish style of life in our home. My mother was obsessive in her religious beliefs and severely punished me several times per day for the smallest things. In my OWN personal opinion, corporal punishment is only necessary when dealing with small toddlers who don't understand English yet. You can't tell them that running into the street is dangerous or that they'll get burned if they touch a hot stove so you spank them so they'll associate the situation with fear and pain. Animals in the wild do the exact same thing and it's a maternal instinct. However, once a child can speak and understand, the physical method of discipline is no longer necessary and becomes abuse! Just my opinion.
I agree. Very well said.
It’s never ok to hit children. Absolutely never. The harm being done to them is so great. We aren’t animals and there’s no excuse to harm a child physically or mentally. If you can’t figure out a better way to keep kids SAFE than to abuse them, don’t have kids-simple. That’s disgusting.
@@youfinallyfoundwaldo1364 what the original commenter is talking about is not abuse. Did you even read the comment with a rational brain? Because you are commenting on it with an extremely emotional one, and suggesting that any of us who were spanked as a children were "abused", which is simply not true.
@@youfinallyfoundwaldo1364 And how, exactly do you let a 1 year old know that the stove is dangerous? You've never been a parent, have you?
@@youfinallyfoundwaldo1364 by the way. I never said hit them hard enough to harm them. You basically make a noise on their diaper and scare them. There's a difference between that and abuse.
I grew up in the area where this group started. The Yellow Deli still has a pretty strong presence in the Chatt area, both with the physical location (which is purposely located next to a college campus), and at farmers markets and what not. Growing up, I could tell they were different from your average group just because of how they looked, but nobody ever really talked about how insidious their history has been/beliefs are. I really just grew up thinking they were your average religious hippies, and I think that’s what makes them so problematic. They do a lot to present themselves to the average passer by as at least completely harmless, or as a good place for community. Standard cult stuff.
Not only are hikers more "vulnerable" because they are more open, but most thru hikers are working through stuff as they hike and everyone, hiker or no wants desperately to belong and be wanted. I am a Christian and their beliefs are frightening to me.
Thanks for the comment. I agree in that some hikers are in a vulnerable place making them susceptible to ideas from welcoming and kind people.
😲😲😲
I'm a heathen and their beliefs raise a lot of red flags.
Excellent video! On my AT thru hike in 2015, I had heard about them, but decided not to visit…I just wasn’t interested. However, this video was very entertaining and informative. I definitely learned a lot from it and I think it’s great that you’ve put this together for thru hikers to be aware of. I’m looking forward to part 2. Good work!
Thank you for watching!!
Agree
I just had to get a screenshot of the comment count on this video being 666! That should change now, but I thought I’d mention it. GenX survivor of The Satanic Panic here, and I thought it was funny! Excellent video, BTW, with a generous hand at fairness, IMHO. Looking forward to Part 2. Thanks for posting!
Targeting thru hikers is actually smart on their part if you think about it. Many hikers are out there seeking something spiritually. It makes them easier targets.
That's sad and makes me wonder why folks don't just go within instead of searching external sources that could land them in a cult
Super interesting! I can't wait for part 2.
Where is that waterfall at 36:30? It's stunning 😍
I don’t know 😅 I found some copyright free drone videos of nature on Pexels
I think spanking a child for squirming during a diaper change or hitting children is evil. Don’t have to do much more research than this. I hope the state will visit monthly to give those who wish to leave an out. Never heard of them and it is important that people do.
A German 12 Tribes group was investigated using hidden cameras. The German authorities found sticks used to beat children. I saw a teeny bit of a beating given to a young child. It was beyond upsetting. Afterwards the group moved to Slavakia where they were able to continue their practices. It is very easy to get away with child abuse, even severe, in the US, sad to say.
The last time I spanked my son, he was about four years old. I didn't find it effective and I could see in his face his defiance and confusion. I rarely to never had ever spanked him before and just never did again. I was far from being a perfect parent, but that is one thing I'm so glad that I took his cue and never raised my hand again to my son. He's 40 now and I have no regrets of not spanking him as a young child.
I am not a hiker but I found your videos very interesting, thank you.
Crémant 🍾 ….Very informative video….your narrative style is very good…thank you!
PS Hikers who want a cult-free experience can stay at the Inn at Long Trail in Killington instead. Plus it includes a hearty breakfast.
Thank you for providing that alternative
I have some suggestions. Reach out and I will tell you a few things after asking a couple things. I'm in Cincinnati, Ohio. I really love the format and your narrative. Geez...find me because you're way better than just another RUclips channel. It's mostly writing and English stuff that wouldn't even catch
As a trans person planning a Long Trail thru hike, im really grateful i found this information, as i would have been putting myself in danger. People claiming that calling something out like that is “closed minded” fail to understand that people like me put themselves in danger when going into unknown environments with unknown belief systems. i will be avoiding Rutland on my trek and I recommend other queer people do the same. The only thing im closed-minded to is intolerance.
🙄
For people interested in the "mind control" or "brainwashing" aspect. Please look at the BITE model to evaluate high control groups. Behavior Control (including when you have sex and with who, what you eat, how you dress, do your hair, etc), information control (what information are you allowed to access), thought control ("that thought isn't in line with what the leaders teach or wants--- stop!" Or just manipulation), emotional control (that emotion isn't acceptable, including even righteous anger, sadness, depression, etc).
The BITE model is VERY flawed and almost any religion can be twisted into the model. I've given examples of this before by applying Islam, Judaism, and Catholicism.
A cult is a cult. All are dangerous. Stay away, you never know when you might be vulnerable, especially when you are away from your normal support group/family/friends.
Christianity is the biggest one of all!! And if u don't see it you're blind
Christianity is also a cult.
So is judeaism.
That definition of cult is not the mainstream definition.
The Colt is actually defined as any group of people of like mind who come together to take action on a cause which usually includes the spreading of a core belief structure shared by members of The cult. (Or something like that.)
Democrats are a satanic cult. They sacrifice babies, swear allegiance to their gods of wokeism, such as race climate gender and abortion
Especially Catholics and Christian’s.
@@kenkneram4819 Yeah, I don't find the definition of a cult being "small" to be useful. The biggest cult I'm aware of is the Catholic Church. The organizational structure is all top down from what I can tell, same as any cult.
The only difference between a 'religion' and a 'cult' is the number of people. They don't necessarily have beliefs that are more crazy than any other religion.
Cults, just like gangs and similar groups, simply prey on humans' innate desire for being socially accepted and part of a group. You will find that often members of these groups come from broken homes, etc.
If you're lost, all kinds of predatory people will be happy to help you find your way.
I'm ready to join! Love the video! :)
As a fully fledged "Pagan" believing in the Old Gods of Northern Europe and being what christian churches would label an "apostate", I will be very much avoiding these people. Being both Pagan and a nature lover for most of my life, i have run in to several types like this group in my time. I had a few close calls in the 90's with some zealots along the trail. Sadly for them, I grew up rough and wasn't the type to be letting them get the best of me. The trail or any trail for that matter is amazing. But you have to keep your head on a swivel. Nutjobs, zealots, wild animals, etc are all factors when taking a journey like this.
Ok. But please tell me what sort of morality or spirituality "pagans" practice. I say this as someone who knows and respects many who identify as such. It's a fair question.
Wicca is a very new, not a very old, construct that in my view needs a LOT of work.
@@suetrublu
Like knowing this somehow tells you how a person practices those beliefs.
Christian, Judea, Muslim all have wonderful ideas about being kind, forgiving, accepting. A lot of people not practicing those ideas.
I think what is frustrating to people who are open about their spirituality is that people try to convert them.
What are you talking about, Wiccan isn't old? The pagans of now, were the original religions. Christians were the pagans.
@@suetrublu not all pagans are wiccan.
I wish more people understood that.
@@JustKrista50 "What are you talking about, Wiccan isn't old? The pagans of now, were the original religions."
I know and respect many folks who identify as pagan or specifically wiccan, so don't take this as me trying to throw shade at paganism. That said, neither wicca, nor neopaganism in general are old. These are modern creations based (loosely) on what knowledge remains of the religions of old. That's quite the distinction.
Yeah, sure buddy.
great video! happy i stumbled on your content!
if you have a stuffed animal of some variety, put the guy right on top of your camera and have a conversation with him instead of your camera! it will trick your brain just enough to give you a more natural feel while speaking!!
keep up the great work!
Just a little point of contention: There actually is no curse of Ham by Noah anywhere in the Bible. Noah actually cursed Ham's son Canaan. Speaking of Ham...now I'm hungry....
While I can neither confirm nor deny your assertation some ham does sound good.
Mmmm ham 😊
@@ciaranofarrell4010 mmmmm pork chops....
@@dismalgravesite7763 hahahaha 🤣 are we sharing a Homer Simpson moment or have I misread the situation 🤔?
@@ciaranofarrell4010 yeah it is a homer simpson moment. now can you tell me what kind of moment this is? (in a Bogart voice): Pork Chops and apple sauce....
Hope it’s okay that my favorite flavor of La Croix is Bohemia Pilsner from Mexico?!
I used to live at a hotel in killington, Vt, right near the long trail, I used to meet hikers & warn them about the 12 tribes hostel in Rutland. I’ve encountered these people at phish shows, widespread panic shows, dead shows, Central Park in nyc, Ithaca, ny, & Rutland, Vt. They have a huge presence in Vermont!
They have been around Chattanooga for a long time. However I didn't know they were also trying to recruit from Long trail hikers as well. Thanks for the info
This is actually the first time I've ever heard of the 12 tribes.
Same here
Me too and I'm almost 68. Of course I am highly suspicious of strangers and avoid them when possible. Easier to stay alive that way.
Drinking tea hanging with you and this interesting story
"The only difference between a cult and a religion is how much real estate they own." -Frank Zappa
Ramen noodles!
We did have large political states that insisted upon religion. These were the socialist/communist states and they led to the largest mass murders in human history (over 100,000,000 dead).
@@firepower7654 50% of statistics are made up on the spot. 😘
At 7:25, I honestly don't see any difference between this belief and that of say, Buddhism, Islam, et al. beliefs which also have many of the same stances regarding lifestyles, up to and including grooming dictates, such as makeup, hair length, and facial hair (~11:00 or so). The same with "new names." Some major religions (see Buddhism again) also require giving up personal wealth and possessions. While some may consider these "extreme" views, I don't think its fair to use that as a discriminator. Also, while I don't necessarily agree with these people, I think its biased to call them "a little off." According to whom? What if we're the ones who are "a little off?" Again, I know you just mean "non standard" WRT the general culture at large, but your terminology matters.
As another example, at 12:14 you say "it seems..." That's a perception comment. How do you know it conforms to reality? What examples do you have of them being "ultra controlling" (12:23), to highlight my point? "It CAN turn dangerous"(12:25)? So....has it "turned dangerous"?
You say it your job to "put the facts out there responsibly," and I respect that, yet you then follow that with the statement "Do not take my opinion for fact."
OK, but which is which?
At 4:38 you define them as a "cult," a term with largely negative connotations in the modern age, yet you rely only on select eyewitness accounts in making this determination. Have you balanced these accounts with people who left the group yet who had a positive experience. At 18:22 you tell a story of a comment one of the women in the group made to you friend "Rascal" about becoming 'infertile' if she helped some of the men in the group lift a couch. On what basis do you assume that is a teaching of the group? It could just be someone making an odd joke, or employing some personal superstition, not a belief of the group. Yet you just assume it came from the group?
Like at 12:12 you state "Hence, for some prejudice groups with racist theology, this justifies slavery, which in my opinion is completely bonkers." And which groups are those? At 12:43 "there isn't a lot of information on the internet that are super reliable..." Then why not look for better sources?
"But, in my opinion, when the question 'Are we racist?' has to be posed on the 12 Tribes official website, then there is something deeper going on there."
Says who? Respectfully, that's not a logical conclusion.
Perhaps they felt the need to answer that question because they've been falsely accused of racism; did you ever consider that, or maybe even investigate whether some of the more outlandish claims against this group were even legitimate? Yet again (at 22:18) "If that is a teaching in the 12 tribes, I really hope its not." "IF??" Then you shouldn't insinuate that it is or even might be, if you don't know, and If you're going to post an allegation that incendiary, shouldn't you be absolutely sure of it first?
Also, you never actually provided one single example of any "racist" behavior in the group, just broad generalizations about their possible beliefs concerning race. I wonder too, if this was a "non-religious" group (say a Humanistic nature commune group, for example) would you feel the same way?
And if this was a majority Black or Hispanic group, would you just assume racism existed in it based on the same "evidence" you provide here? Do you see my point?
Finally, what exactly about this group is "Dangerous" or "Extreme"? Nothing you described in your video fits either of these adjectives.
Stephen Covey said it best in "The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People," with 'Seek first to understand, then to be understood.'
I've enjoyed your vids so far; this very opinionated, slanted, and speculative one isn't one of them.
I remember encountering them and their literature at some Grateful Dead shows and music festivals in the 1980's. They seemed creepy to me then.
Wow what a throwback your comment made me feel.
My sister lives in Chattanooga TN, her boyfriend and her went to the sandwich shop. She said it was weird, the employees would not look at her in her eyes or speak to her directly. They would only communicate to her through her boyfriend. She said they gave her boyfriend a pamphlet but not her. Very weird.
Ate at the Yellow Deli in Rutland once. I, and my girl, both got very uncomfortable vibes from the place. Couldn't quite put my finger on it and would never go back. I trust my "sixth sense".
I stayed with them on 3 different occasions on my 2015 thru hike. Very friendly and generous. Never pressured or weirded out by them at all. Had some really good conversations with a few them just shooting the shit. I encourage people to stay with them for a night if you need a place to stay or hot meal. Good overall experience.
Thanks for the reasonable thought response.
Yes, the ole "they were nice to me so don't worry about the child abuse and give them a try" reasonable thought response.
@@melstew7140 you haven't seen child abuse and neither have they. It gets people's attention though don't it.
Ate there, it was creepy. I won't be going back. Nice video detailing a lot more than I was aware of.
glad you survived the meal. One cannot know what they are serving. I mean, if they serve you tea, and it f*cks you up on the way home, what are they serving for 'food'?
Good information. Thanks for sharing.
Of course! Thank you for watching 😊🥾
This is the 1st I have heard of the twelve tribes .. an also my 1st time viewing your vids as far as i can see and hear u are doing everything very well 1,u are good looking,2you are well spoken, 3 you seem very comfortable in front of the camera.. so in my humble opinion you are doing a great job!!
"larger and accepted" is irrelevant to the definition of a cult. Every religion that has a community component is by definition a culture -- a cult. And large and accepted religions are extremely dangerous with a history of atrocity. So I disagree with your opening. But I still am grateful for any critical look at any such group, large or small, known or unknown.
I consider Christianity is a cult
I completely agree Tara...I like my space as well. I'm happy to help someone in true need but I value my privacy and sometimes solitude so I wouldn't fit in. Thank you for the information
During my 08 thru-hike, I stayed at their hostel in Rutland for a bit while I nursed my ankle and slackpacked. At the time, I didn't know, BUT .......There were two young girls entwined in the cult, both "promised" to be married to male members of the tribe. One was absolutely fine with it while another was doing her best to get out of the place, get out of the forced marriage and be "transferred" to their tribe in Chattanooga. CRAZY CRAY MANGO Croix pour moi.
There are no forced marriages in the Twelve Tribes, but they will often not allow a person to marry who they want and ask you to give them alternatives. It's each person's choice who they marry, but not every potential spouse is acceptable to them.
@@jivatman108 hmmm. Still sounds like a lack of choice per my definition.
Wait, at 11:32, I guess that's a stock image. I've seen it on other videos. Pretty sure that's the cliffs along the Saguenay in Quebec. Anyone know? I haven't been there in thirty years...