KJOism begs two questions: Why did a loving God wait over 1500 years to give his children His true word, and why is He still withholding His word from 75% of the world who cannot comprehend the English language?
Elijah and his 3 friends had no scripture yet they and Elihu knew more about God than anyone in the Bible. Other places in the bible people had limited access to holy scripture. Some verses talk about hearing the word because the only scripture they had access to was it being read to them. Finally for a season some had God's word in Greek and Hebrew ect. Your comment... a Double Nothing Burger. Jesus is the Word. He was the word for Job his 3 friends and Elihu and on down the line
You still.never answered his question which highlights the fact that if their doctrine is correct, for most of human history and for most people today no one had the word of God.
This is the same question any believer of God must answer for themselves. How was anybody saved before the law of Moses was given? How was any non-Israelite saved before the cross of Christ? How is anybody saved if they have not heard the gospel of Christ after the cross and had an opportunity to reject it or not? The answers are in the Bible. Isaiah 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether. Psalm 19:9 God‘s judgments are righteous. He is a fair judge. God wants all men to be saved. 1 Timothy 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. For the Bible to exist at all, it means that the words of God had to be in the possession of men at any given time in history. For those without God’s words, my personal opinion is that God will judge them by the light that they have received based on Romans. Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
I am blessed to be part of a church that has no problem with the members using multiple translations. The teaching elder preaches from the ESV. I read from the NKJV. Others in the church use the NASB. We have learned from experience that comparing different versions gives us all a better understanding of many passages.
Yes amen! I currently read the NKJV but have read a good NIV Bible and since I was formally Catholic I have read the St. Josephine edition at least twice. Thinking of asking for an NASB for Christmas!
I will say, first of all, that I am a TR reader by preference. That said, I answered this question for myself years ago, though I have no knowledge of the biblical languages. I remember reading about the stoning of Stephen in the Good News version, and felt like I was there. I read the newer versions for more clarification!
I also was leading a IBF church Oxford Bible Baptist we lost all our brothers and sisters in Christ in the IBF movement. I now lead a TR only instead of KJV only church Waimak Bible Chapel. My wife and I are still very hurt and grieving over the loss of fellowship but mostly through the lack of love shown. Our church has members that use multiple translations but we preach from translations based on the Textus Receptus. We have fellowship with other churches and Pastors from other denominations something we never did when in the IBF movement. The IBF movement has no allowance for discussion or agreeing to disagree.
I was someone who came to realize king James onlyism was unbiblical and incorrect before my husband did. My one piece of advice to come out the other side of this difficult situation without fracturing your marriage relationship is PRAY. I prayed so much during the 12 months that my husband and I were not in agreement over this. I continually asked God to show me which questions to ask my husband and when to just shut up and not poke the bear. I tried to ask thought provoking questions and then leave it alone, while being patient and prayerful. After that 12 months and lots of God’s hand working in our lives, my husband came to believe in “textual confidence” and was no longer KJVO. I was raised KJVO from birth and my husband had believed it since he was a young teenager. My father was pastor of the church where we served in youth ministry, music ministry, children’s Sunday school classes etc. My husband was a deacon. Once we were in agreement on this issue, my husband sat down to talk with our pastor (my dad) because his conscience required him to declare his belief on this translation issue. We were immediately asked to step down from all our responsibilities at church, and ultimately we decided to look for another church where we could serve in good conscience. My husband is now on his third year of studying pastoral ministry at MBU and we are thriving even more than ever, though many of our relationships with friends and family have been fractured and never fully repaired. God is still good and I have hope that in the future our relationships with others will eventually be healed. Thank you for your work, Mark, it has been immensely helpful to both my husband and I in the journey God prepared for us.
Your story of family fracture is one of the big reasons I do this work. It really, really grieves me. So much so that I wanted to do something about it. What grieves me even more is giving kids Bible memory verses even their parents don't fully understand-because of language change.
When she said that she asked him if he was willing to lose everything over this, and he replied “Yes, he was because he believed it to be the truth.” It made me cry, because … I don’t know … it’s just so beautiful when people take a stand for Jesus. That’s true faith that denies self to follow him.
I am very impressed with how sober this husband and wife are. Very articulate and sound reasoning. This story is heartbreaking, but uplifting at the same time. It shows that God can help people work through difficult problems and it doesn't have to mean there is no reconciliation or agreement possible. This is about as basic as it gets, in the sense of the controversy getting to the most intimate level. I'm glad that this couple was able to come to agreement. I wish churches would take their example, or at least not make this a stumbling block that pits believers against each other, rending the body when it's absolutely not necessary.
Very interested in this one. My wife and I probably had some similar struggles initially. It is encouraging to see other believers who have been through the same growing pains of sanctification that we have.
My wife and I have never disagreed on Bible translations, thankfully. But we have disagreed on a few doctrinal issues. It is is very difficult to navigate something like this for two faithful Christians who are married. There are many reasons for this.
Right! My wife and I have had very few disagreements, and essentially no doctrinal ones. But the few disagreements we've had have made me aware of the truth of what you're saying!
@@wardonwords Funny thing about that… somehow my wife’s view often seems to be the one we end up settling on. Weird. It’s almost like faithful women are full of wisdom!
Just a thought on the wife with the question about her special needs child. If the husband believes in missions and putting the word of God in other languages for the sake of understanding. Graciously approach the subject that way; understanding is what she’s after for their child.
Excellent and sad at the same time. It hurts to know that someone would break a friendship over a translation issue, knowing they still love the Lord. I pastor a church in VA that my dad planted 40+ yrs ago. It is considered Independent, we are KJV, but not only. Some carry NKJV, ESV, etc. If they are reading and studying the Bible, I'm thrilled! If the KJV is the ONLY translation for English speaking people, where is this Golden Chain of preservation that takes us from the original autographs, through the Majority Text, to the TR (which one), to our 1769 Blayney Ed. KJV? No one has ever answered that for me. I love the KJ, but I read several translations.
Excellent thoughts. I'm with you, brother. It's so sad to see division over this. Not all division is sin, of course. Division to preserve truth must at times take place. But I've labored to show that the Bible does not teach the doctrines of KJV-Onlyism.
It may seem small, but it carries over into other issues. A friend I have I'm currently thinking her companionship is more pushing her church's standards on others. She'll give me KJVO scriptures but when I memorize or give a scripture in NKJV she won't respond. Sh let's ppl know church is on Wednesday and twice on Sundays, it only gets worse to her commenting that she wondered if I was still going to church because I missed three weeks due to vacation, sickness, then visiting family 8 hrs away. She said she was concerned about me. I also got tired of her inviting me to her church when I was attending a church. So why continue a friendship in which you feel judged as a lesser Christian?
I find this very humorous while simultaneously not being funny. I may not have dealt with exactly KJV-Onlyism but I have with other similar issues in my church. It's inspiring to see a couple being faithful to seek God for what was right for them rather than what others wanted for them.
This has GOT to hit close to home, or at least in the neighborhood, for anyone who is interested in the topic that is @Mark Ward's specialty, and it's a blessing.
This is exactly where I’m at right now. Not a pastor, but knowing the truth I can’t deny it - and I’m not sure unity with my pastor is possible at this point…but we have so many people here we love and who love us, and I don’t want to have to leave. My wife isn’t on board right now and feels much like this woman did when the issue first came up. This is such a help to me!
Great interview! Tough questions especially regarding how to teach children that belong to both of you. My husband and I went through this coming out of Calvinism. He was very angry and we stood to lose a lot since he was just about to finish his master's from a Calvinist seminary and most of his friends and mentors were Calvinist. Praise God it wasn't long after searching the Scripture for himself that he too left that teaching. I think this woman should not be restricted in what she reads. To follow God she should read his word in a translation she understands. If it would be disobeying God to refuse to read his word in anything but the Latin Vulgate that you don't understand then it would be equally disobeying God to only read the KJV if you can't understand it. For her child she should probably continue to use the KJV but read each passage ahead in an understandable translation so that she can translate for her child just like I am sure her husband does as well. Until such time as her husband comes around or their daughter turns 18 and makes her own decision.
Great story. I can't imagine what they had to go through when they knew they had to leave their church. I praise God that I'm from a country where though most people (especially the older people) read the KJV because that is only what we can readily but off book shelves here, we are not a KJV only nation. In fact, I knew nothing of KJV onlism until internet became a part of our daily lives. We just read KJV because that is only what we could buy and when NIV started to sell here, a great majority of the churches started to use that instead. I grew up with the NKJV and now us the ESV. Most young people I know, some who don't even go to church, read multiple different English translations on their phones and tablets. But for those like the lady you mentioned, it can be really hard to be in such as situation. I hope her husband cares more about their child learning Jesus than holding on to a translation of the Bible.
I'm not sure how to word this, but wondering if you might have or know of resources that share about churches that are doctrinally, worshipfully conservative, but don't carry a hardcore King James focus? Don't know if that's possible, but think something like that would be hugely beneficial for others wrestling through this. So just curious about that myself.
I think you'll find such descriptions among historic reformed churches and churches that have lineage in the reformations, both on the continent and in the isles. (Various denominations with roots in Scottish Presbyterian, Lutheran, Dutch Reformed, French Huguenot, Anglican, Puritan Congregationalist, etc) It was in the midst of unifying the kingdoms, with the backdrop of the protestant reformation, that was the "historical stew" as it were out of which the KJV even developed, and I think that's interesting to consider. It's a very different historical picture than what some KJV-onlyists might paint. I think knowing the history helps a lot in these conversations and I think many of the protestant streams that trace their roots back to the reformation era do have more of a connection, in a sense, to that history and so tend to (on average) balance the fidelity to doctrine and worship, while also holding an awareness what humanism brought to the faith (humanism not in the modern sense, but in the sense to get back to "the sources" and original languages of texts) which really gave fuel to the protestant reformation. Perhaps it is only out of that humanism could we have gotten the KJV centuries later...which might be an uncomfortable irony to some.
This is a problem to me. I do not understand. 30:55 "Whatever doesn't jive with your conscience is sin" 34:05 "Went past the screaming objections of my own conscience" 48:38 "Drove me past the objections of my conscience" & "push people past their conscience"
Rom 14 speaks of consciences that are too weak, too restricted. Of course, there are consciences that are too free, too! I cannot think of another time in my life when I set out to re-educate my conscience and am glad I did. But I saw by age 18 that those who had restricted my conscience were not as knowledgeable about the Bible and had told me untruths. My God-given pastor at that time was re-educating me and my conscience; so were my Bible teachers. My conscience's objections didn't last long once I actually began to read the NIV and NASB. They were so obviously helpful in my efforts to understand God's word. Does that help?
@@wardonwords Thanks for your reply and the time it took you. I don't see the word conscience in Romans 14. I only see Faith. The only time I am aware of the Bible talking about changing or altering your conscience is when it says that it can become seared. That is the closest thing in the Bible I am aware of to reeducating your conscience. Am I forgetting something? Can you explain what you are referring to?
@@DrGero15 I think you have to keep in mind the difference between "word" and "concept." The concept of joy is certainly present in Psalms, for example, in which the word does not appear. You couldn't give a full accounting on the Bible's teaching about joy without mentioning the reasons for and objects of joy in those Psalms. And a word study on "joy" (or the Hebrew and Greek words for "joy") would not take you to those Psalms. Likewise, I think "faith" in "whatever is not of faith is sin" is talking about the conscience. The context is all about conscience issues.
@@wardonwords Very interesting. I'll think about that. Thank you for your reply and the time it took and thank you for your insight. I don't know if I agree with you or not yet but I appreciate your thoughtful approach. I'd like you to know that nothing I said was in anger or intended to attack you, since text doesn't convey tone of voice or inflection and I tend to be very direct in my writing style. I have done a lot more technical writing than personal.
@@DrGero15 Sometimes the conscience is molded into the image of man, instead of the image of God. Thus the conscience screams false signals that must be pushed through, and corrected.
No offense to anyone here, but I'm dealing with this the first time ever. Wish I could go into this more. But I now know what this is because of a new pastor in our financially troubled church. Knew something wasn't right here. Church began to change. Everything thing we built began to be torn down. I could go on and on. Why is everyone starting, or at some point in these conversations here and other videos on this, why must they include how great the KJV is. Always the same reasons. It's not the first English translation, or the only one of it's time. As I've now learned, far from it The arrogance if they have the only perfect translation when we've found at least 7 hundred thousand more manuscripts and scrolls since then is astounding. It's just another translation and a very old one. Why aren't any of the others being lauded? It's time to move past the apology phase of the KJV only people and speak the truth. Isn't this what it's all about to begin with? THE TRUTH. If they can manipulate so many people with what they already have, just how far are they willing to go? Or plan to go? In these times, they are questions that must be considered and never shoved to the side.
In fact, Heb 10.22-24 has a faith-hope-love triad - a detail I use in favor of Pauline authorship of Hebrews. But the KJV muddles it. (I think it was a printer's error. Scrivener emended it in his edition of the KJV; it is why many KJVOs reject his work.)
It shocks me how willing KJV defenders are to insist that Heb 10:23 in the KJV provides a perfectly reasonable, and even an ideal-yea a perfect, rendering of ἐλπίδος. Instead of acknowledging that the ἐλπίδος/faith mismatch is odd or difficult to explain, they take it as another proof of the rightness of their position.
@@wardonwords It's Ruckman's secondary inspiration doctrine... "'Mistakes' in the Authorized Version are ADVANCED REVELATION!" - forget the Greek, it doesn't matter anymore, the First Edition of 1611 is the new autograph from the hand of God himself, and it differs from the Greek anywhere - oh well, the Greek must be wrong because this is the King Jesus Bible, Authorized by God. And I'll say the same thing to them every time: "Where was the Bible in 1603 then?", because their theology hits a giant wall when asked this.
@@wardonwords Do advocates of the CTs (for there is not just one) not do the same at 2 Peter 3:10 prior to NA28 with a special meaning of 'found' as 'laid bare' or similar?
Different circumstance. KJV defenders are going in reverse, trying to justify the English. Contemporary versions are just trying their best to reflect a very difficult Greek usage.
@markwardonwords Thank you. I take your point. There was a Word Magazine episode that jumped through those hoops in reverse with Hebrews 10. In this video, I like the clarification of what corrects or clarifies or explains what. Also, Strong's becomes the authority in a way that BDAG does not.
She is going far, far beyond the Bible. And by doing so, she is violating the teaching of the Bible. “Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions.” (Galatians 5:19-20 ESV) Division, dissension, strife-this is the fruit of KJV-Onlyism. The Bible does not teach this doctrine, so it is wrong to divide God's people over it. It is most certainly wrong-manifestly wrong, egregiously wrong-to deny the work of the Spirit in others over something this foolish. However, this poor woman almost certainly doesn't understand any of these things. If you have an open door with her, given how extreme she already is, I'd urge you to tread softly and to steal my arguments. Talk only about English. Tell her what I tell folks like her almost every day: The KJV is an excellent translation-but if you're going to read it exclusively, you need to understand that it was translated into a form of English no one quite speaks or writes anymore. So there are going to be some places where you think you understand but, because of language change, you're going to miss the intent of the KJV translators. For help discerning when this is the case, I encourage you to check out my "Fifty False Friends in the KJV" series on RUclips for help reading the KJV! ruclips.net/p/PLq1Aq0ucgkPCtHJ5pwhrU1pjMsUr9F2rc
Mark, thank you for this video and thank you to your guests for sharing their personal experiences with the KJVO position. This is to be sure a delicate matter in so many levels. It is an issue that goes beyond the routine reading of the Word of God. It affects the conscience, relationships, the family and more. But I think in the center of all of these possible undesirable issues is fear. God didn't give a spirit of fear, but rather He gave us a spirit of power, of love and self-control. I thank God for the ways He has supernaturally preserved His Word for us to be able to read it and understand it. The Lord does say "Come now, let us *reason* together..." Isaiah 1:18. In order to reason with God, the person has to be able to understand what He is calling us to *reason* with Him about. Personally, I love and appreciate the KJV for its language beauty (it appeals to me; I am a language nerd in many ways), and I appreciate it for its massive contribution it lent to the Revival of the Church centuries ago. To me, it ranks among the most beautiful and compelling works of Literature. But I also read the Word of God in the NASB, the ESV, the NKJV, the NIV, the NLT. In Spanish I read the Word of God in the Reina-Valera 1960 (enjoying its gorgeous Castilian Spanish) and I also read it in the "Nueva Biblia de las America" which is the Spanish version that follows the translation philosophy of the NASB. Whether in English or Spanish, I am confident I am reading the Word of God. Many blessings :)
I have now watched a number of your videos and am particularly struck by the concern over how to convey to our children in this one. Having raised two children who are following the Lord and they have 3 adults who do the same (one being in full time christian service)and another 4 on behind I would suggest that we need to back-off the "fighting fundy" attitude meaning I have to always prove that my belief system is correct. I was brought up i the 40 & 50s in a Baptist background. But, my parents and grand-parents knew how to apply the strengths and how to moderately engage in many of the negatives of the "legalism" of the time. We then did the same with our children and they with their children. We need to always to remember that the only question at the "pearly gates" is "do you know my son as your personal savior" not what version, not my view on eschatology, etc but what did I do with Christ and my rewards are based on my using the gifts I was given. I see no gift about defending some of these points making "minors, major" All of this is sad. I grew up with the KJV but we also knew that my word will not return unto me void. This is all sad with the time spent on this. Sad, sad, sad. the waste of God's precious time. Raising children is not about protecting them but teaching them how to live in this world as we are commended but not being part of it. That needs to be modeled not lectured.
I will pray that a church, seeking a pastor and their family would be compelled by the Holy Spirit, call on Pastor Allen and Amy . Bless them and heal their pain . That said, they really need to consider writing a book on how one can walk to another chapter of serving Christ in a new and better way. My hope would be that there would be a chance that our Christian brethren( that’s both men, women and children) can also look that to be KJV only often comes across like a defeated army. When a army or nation is defeated in war, often they will close themselves off from the world and make rules of behavior their new faith of allegiance.
As a former KJVO IFB, I wouldn’t quite call them a cult. But they can sometimes be cult like, and many of their beliefs and doctrines tend that way. It’s a church by church, pastor by pastor basis. The church I came from definitely leaned more cultish.
The most anti-KJV only scholars I have read, are the scholars who wrote the Letter to the reader, in the front of the KJV Bible, The KJV translators. I am so sorry for the hurt and pain caused to you and your wife by those who have made the kingdom of God, of syllables. They have full well rejected their own translators words and have laid aside their words and instead taught their own words as commands of God. It's sad.
@@wardonwords The preface shocked me a bit at first....but then gave me a textual peace I never had before that. I'm thankful they wrote it. God knew some of us would need that.
This is pretty sad and pathetic. I get the impression that this couple grew up in a KJV Only church that stressed the KJV but didn't major on Bible teaching. Any KJV-Only church worth its salt will teach and explain the word of God simply and plainly. Those people whom I have met and known who were in a KJV church and later turned to modern versions came from KJV churches that were unfortunately weak on teaching Bible doctrine. I have been in and to some of these kinds of churches, where the KJV was "the Book" to them exclusively, but many of the people didn't understand the issues involved to make an intelligent argument for the exclusivity of the KJV. They just believe it and that settles it, which is not an argument or explanation. The IFB churches I have been a part of my entire Christian life (beginning at 17) have been strong and weak churches in regards to doctrine and the reasons they hold to the KJV-Only. The leaders of weak KJV churches hem-haw around the issue and lightly touch on it now and then; the leaders of strong KJV-Only churches teach their people in a sensible and intelligent way why they use the KJV over other versions and those churches mostly have a strong doctrinal foundation that holds the church together. It sounds like this couple is from a KJV-Only church with weak leadership and weak Bible teaching. The examples they give of contemporary English words and "flow" that give them better understanding of the Scriptures are things that they should have learned from their Pastor and Sunday School teachers in their church. As a result, they are surprised by the word "booty" which occurs 3 times in the KJV, the one the Mrs. refers to being in Zephaniah. We know it means "plunder" or "loot", and we can find that in the dictionary, which is a fine tool for studying the Bible. The word "booty" of course is one which anyone who has watched any "Pirate" movie knows what it means. LOL I have read your book, and watched your video on "false friends" which is very interesting and informative; "false friends" is something I was not familiar with until I saw your video, and it has been helpful in understanding the KJV -- I simply write in the margin of my KJV Bible the meaning of such words, and when preaching and teaching I will explain what a word "means" WITHOUT having to "correct" the KJV, and still hold to the KJV exclusively. (I admit that there are places where the KJV wording is awkward or cumbersome, but I would not say that they are "wrong"; I would and do study them out, and even reference modern versions to see how they handle it, and then come up with a satisfactory (to me) explanation without admitting error in the KJV.) Here is an example of a verse that I have wrestled with: Matthew 6:27 -- "add one cubit to your stature?" The modern translations say: "add one HOUR" or "add one MOMENT" to your life or lifespan. Although that makes sense, the Greek word for "cubit" is not "hour" or "moment" but CUBIT, and the Greek word for "stature" is not "life" or "lifespan", but STATURE (referring to "height," not length). I would not argue with anyone over no one can "add one cubit to the length of his life" or will himself to live longer than his appointed days. It makes sense; but I would have to keep cubit and stature, and explain it means what it says in the KJV, but it could also carry the figurative meaning of adding length (cubit) to your lifespan (stature; height ?). Any light you have on this one is appreciated. Respectfully
In regards to translations pre the kjv the kjv is a modern translation. Something like the nkjv or the first niv etc also are not modern anymore. The correct thing would be to call them non kjv translations.
I would recommend taking your KJV Bible and an ESV Bible and then read them together. Do this until you finish reading the Bible. I promise you, it will give insight into this issue.
I really appreciate your respectfulness here, Brother Dave. I don't think you can say that Alan was given weak defenses of the KJV. He's a sharp guy, and he was raised in a pretty standard KJV-Only world. He went through all the training one is supposed to have in that world. Perhaps he can say more. I'm so, so glad to hear a KJV defender profiting from my false friends work! My ultimate goal is NOT to move people away from the KJV but to move them toward understanding their Bibles, and if people use my work to do that with the KJV, more power to them. I just don't want them insisting that others have to do it the same way. Your Matt 6:27 example is one I've thought about a lot. I talk through it a bit during my answer to objection 5 in this video: ruclips.net/video/dvzVOjRJ0nI/видео.html. I hope that helps!
Today, while I was reading through the letter to the reader, in the front of the KJV Bible, I was once again reminded that these great KJV scholars were still ANTI-KJV Only, today, just as they were yesterday. And if God willing I awake again tomorrow, I expect they will still be against dogmatizing those places where the text is not so certain. And I have a feeling if I wake up again tomorrow, there will still be Zero Greek New testament manuscripts, from before the Erasmus New testament, that have the KJV reading in Revelations 22:19..... I hope a day comes soon though, when the TR and KJV only movements can find it in their heart, to support the reading of the scripture in the plain and simple English of our people alive today. Just as Tyndale had a heart for his people in his day.
No one should have to become an expert in Elizabethan English in order to read God's word. Period. That is an artificial barrier that is utterly unnecessary.
Psalms 51:19 [19]Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar. This is why I can't read the kjv 😬😅
Try this one. Job 36:32-33 "With clouds he covereth the light; and commandeth it not to shine by the cloud that cometh betwixt. The noise thereof sheweth concerning it, the cattle also concerning the vapour."
"Let us hold fast the profession of our (hope?) without wavering" (Heb. 10:23) Very weak indeed. Kind of the opposite of Martin Luther, wouldn't you say? Who trusted the scripture, "The just shall live by faith." My question is what Greek text did you use to translate that Greek word. The Critical Text of Westcott and Hort's linage or the Textus Receptus of the King James? By the way, this translation is right up Rome's ecumenical alley because they have no assurance of salvation. They just have a hope maybe that they'll eventually reach heaven after a lengthy stay in Purgatory which is an amazingly false doctrine. But hey, maybe they'll find some ancient Greek manuscripts that teach Purgatory. Then, we'll really be in a pickle, Not! I'll stick with the King James.
There is no difference here between the TR and the critical text. Both contain the Greek word for "hope," ελπις (elpis). If you know some Spanish, it would be like translating a long Spanish document into English and, every single time but one, translating "esperanza" as "hope"-and just that one time, for no reason anyone else can discern, translating "esperanza" (the standard Spanish word for "hope") with the word "faith." To my knowledge, there are no Greek manuscripts in existence that have the Greek word for "faith" here. All TR editions and all critical text editions agree with all the manuscripts available in using the Greek word for "hope." You also inspired me to check foreign language translations. I checked over 40 translations in English and in the other European languages I can read (with help: German, French, Italian, Portuguese, Dutch), and going back centuries. All translations, including the Geneva Bible and Tyndale, say "hope" here. The only exceptions are the KJV and the Reina-Valera Gomez, which is a Spanish translation made by KJV-Onlyists.
I cannot say I agree. I am a Protestant who sees Scripture as the ultimate-not the only, but the ultimate-authority. As someone said once, "Popes and councils may err."
This is very divisive. I’m someone who loves their Word of God, (you like to call the cult of KJVO). My wife has been influenced by a modern pastor who likes to demean people who love their Bibles. She and I have almost divorced and now we go to two different churches and she still goes to a church with a pastor who demeans and belittles people who love their bibles. This of course is not the roll of a pastor nor the roll of a wife, to treat people who love their bibles as being strange and weak in the Word is horribly cruel and mean. If they were more people who loved their bibles, we would know our rolls better.
I do not demean KJV-Onlyists. Some godly, loving, self-sacrificial KJV-Onlyists had an immensely positive impact on me in high school, and they are still my friends. What is divisive is to go beyond the Bible and insist that other Christians follow practices the Bible does not teach-such as insisting that other people use one and only one Bible translation. The Bible does not teach this, my friend. I pray your marriage does not break up, of course!
Why do you persist in this KJV only pot stirring ? There are far more better things to do in ministry than endlessly stirring the pot in this area. If the entire world chose to make the KJV their daily bible reading version, would that bother you. Let it go! The pedantic monotony of the pot stirring has become esoteric with your every videos on the subject.
should Not be an issue... really... are the men ..aka husbands.... Not supposed to be the leaders in the home.?. if we are truly practicing biblical precepts... I would say that even with women's lib going on.. we need to set equality aside... the home cannot have 2 masters... the wife may choose to read from a different translation than her husband.. but.. it should never become a point of friction.. since she will have to answer to God one day for not submitting to her husband on this... just as..... if He led his wife unwisely........ he will have to answer to God one day..for leading her wrongly... I really wonder if God will be upset with the Husband preaching from the KJV..or Not preaching from the KJV . more..so..... or less so than with the wife.. for Not submitting to her husband..?
Scriptural preservation means nothing if we don’t have access to it. If we have to keep discovering older manuscripts to correct the biblical text we already have, we can never fully trust the text we have. Scholars who hold to the Critical Text are basically saying that the the biblical text isn’t perfect, and we’ll never know if it is perfect, because there might always be more manuscripts out there that we’ll never discover. In that view, there’s never any closure on the text of scripture. What the Lord is telling me in his word today could change tomorrow. Not very solid ground to stand on. Just some food for thought. 🤷🏻♂️
Good observation. The bibical text we have today is not perfect. Our solid ground should be Jesus and not in any particular translation. Jesus is the Word and I trust He will lead us into truth. I believe the Holy Spirit is a better translator than man. To me, the bible is a tool that God uses to lead us to Christ. It's kinda like the Law in that it was used to make the people aware of sin and their need for a savior. The bible does not need to be perfect in order to be an effective tudor that leads us to Christ. My faith is in Jesus and his work on the cross. Even the most corrupt translations, can lead us to Jesus. In that sense, God has preserved his message even if the translations don't match perfectly. So relax, and try to not idolize the bible. The paper, ink, leather or translation can't save you, only God can.
@@AlpacaLipps Poor reasoning. We only know who Jesus is FROM the Bible. If it’s not perfect, how do we know that it’s giving us an accurate representation of who Jesus is?
@@stevetucker5851 1 Corinthians 2:9-16 - But as it is written: “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard, Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
@@AlpacaLipps How do you know that that verse accurately represents the truth? In your view, it could change tomorrow through a new manuscript discovery.
KJOism begs two questions: Why did a loving God wait over 1500 years to give his children His true word, and why is He still withholding His word from 75% of the world who cannot comprehend the English language?
I'm not sure I've ever heard a KJV defender give detailed answers to this and related questions.
Elijah and his 3 friends had no scripture yet they and Elihu knew more about God than anyone in the Bible. Other places in the bible people had limited access to holy scripture. Some verses talk about hearing the word because the only scripture they had access to was it being read to them. Finally for a season some had God's word in Greek and Hebrew ect. Your comment... a Double Nothing Burger. Jesus is the Word. He was the word for Job his 3 friends and Elihu and on down the line
You still.never answered his question which highlights the fact that if their doctrine is correct, for most of human history and for most people today no one had the word of God.
Big difference in individuals not having the word and, no one having the word of God until 1611.
This is the same question any believer of God must answer for themselves.
How was anybody saved before the law of Moses was given?
How was any non-Israelite saved before the cross of Christ?
How is anybody saved if they have not heard the gospel of Christ after the cross and had an opportunity to reject it or not?
The answers are in the Bible.
Isaiah 34:16
Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read:
The fear of the LORD is clean, enduring for ever: The judgments of the LORD are true and righteous altogether.
Psalm 19:9
God‘s judgments are righteous. He is a fair judge.
God wants all men to be saved.
1 Timothy 2:4
Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
For the Bible to exist at all, it means that the words of God had to be in the possession of men at any given time in history.
For those without God’s words, my personal opinion is that God will judge them by the light that they have received based on Romans.
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, [even] his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
I am blessed to be part of a church that has no problem with the members using multiple translations. The teaching elder preaches from the ESV. I read from the NKJV. Others in the church use the NASB. We have learned from experience that comparing different versions gives us all a better understanding of many passages.
Right!
Yes amen! I currently read the NKJV but have read a good NIV Bible and since I was formally Catholic I have read the St. Josephine edition at least twice. Thinking of asking for an NASB for Christmas!
I will say, first of all, that I am a TR reader by preference. That said, I answered this question for myself years ago, though I have no knowledge of the biblical languages. I remember reading about the stoning
of Stephen in the Good News version, and felt like I was there.
I read the newer versions for more clarification!
I also was leading a IBF church Oxford Bible Baptist we lost all our brothers and sisters in Christ in the IBF movement. I now lead a TR only instead of KJV only church Waimak Bible Chapel. My wife and I are still very hurt and grieving over the loss of fellowship but mostly through the lack of love shown. Our church has members that use multiple translations but we preach from translations based on the Textus Receptus. We have fellowship with other churches and Pastors from other denominations something we never did when in the IBF movement. The IBF movement has no allowance for discussion or agreeing to disagree.
I was someone who came to realize king James onlyism was unbiblical and incorrect before my husband did.
My one piece of advice to come out the other side of this difficult situation without fracturing your marriage relationship is PRAY. I prayed so much during the 12 months that my husband and I were not in agreement over this. I continually asked God to show me which questions to ask my husband and when to just shut up and not poke the bear. I tried to ask thought provoking questions and then leave it alone, while being patient and prayerful. After that 12 months and lots of God’s hand working in our lives, my husband came to believe in “textual confidence” and was no longer KJVO.
I was raised KJVO from birth and my husband had believed it since he was a young teenager. My father was pastor of the church where we served in youth ministry, music ministry, children’s Sunday school classes etc. My husband was a deacon. Once we were in agreement on this issue, my husband sat down to talk with our pastor (my dad) because his conscience required him to declare his belief on this translation issue. We were immediately asked to step down from all our responsibilities at church, and ultimately we decided to look for another church where we could serve in good conscience. My husband is now on his third year of studying pastoral ministry at MBU and we are thriving even more than ever, though many of our relationships with friends and family have been fractured and never fully repaired. God is still good and I have hope that in the future our relationships with others will eventually be healed.
Thank you for your work, Mark, it has been immensely helpful to both my husband and I in the journey God prepared for us.
Your story of family fracture is one of the big reasons I do this work. It really, really grieves me. So much so that I wanted to do something about it. What grieves me even more is giving kids Bible memory verses even their parents don't fully understand-because of language change.
When she said that she asked him if he was willing to lose everything over this, and he replied “Yes, he was because he believed it to be the truth.” It made me cry, because … I don’t know … it’s just so beautiful when people take a stand for Jesus. That’s true faith that denies self to follow him.
I am very impressed with how sober this husband and wife are. Very articulate and sound reasoning.
This story is heartbreaking, but uplifting at the same time. It shows that God can help people work through difficult problems and it doesn't have to mean there is no reconciliation or agreement possible. This is about as basic as it gets, in the sense of the controversy getting to the most intimate level.
I'm glad that this couple was able to come to agreement. I wish churches would take their example, or at least not make this a stumbling block that pits believers against each other, rending the body when it's absolutely not necessary.
✔
Listening to this video while surrounded by multiple translation Bibles around me. Why would this be an issue?
It's a huge issue for lots of sincere Christians. =|
Thank you for educating me, I had no idea this was an issue. Im new to this content.
Very interested in this one. My wife and I probably had some similar struggles initially. It is encouraging to see other believers who have been through the same growing pains of sanctification that we have.
You're going to enjoy this! Alan and Amy are great!
Very interesting, and such a great family. If all couples could communicate the way they do the divorce rate would be non existent.
My wife and I have never disagreed on Bible translations, thankfully. But we have disagreed on a few doctrinal issues. It is is very difficult to navigate something like this for two faithful Christians who are married. There are many reasons for this.
Right! My wife and I have had very few disagreements, and essentially no doctrinal ones. But the few disagreements we've had have made me aware of the truth of what you're saying!
@@wardonwords Funny thing about that… somehow my wife’s view often seems to be the one we end up settling on. Weird. It’s almost like faithful women are full of wisdom!
Thanks to you and your guesses for sharing their life. It is not easy.
Our pleasure!
Hey AIan, good to see you and your wife on here with Mark. Still praying for you. Hope you'll come back to New England!
He’s a fine fellow!
Just a thought on the wife with the question about her special needs child.
If the husband believes in missions and putting the word of God in other languages for the sake of understanding. Graciously approach the subject that way; understanding is what she’s after for their child.
There's some wisdom there!
Excellent and sad at the same time. It hurts to know that someone would break a friendship over a translation issue, knowing they still love the Lord. I pastor a church in VA that my dad planted 40+ yrs ago. It is considered Independent, we are KJV, but not only. Some carry NKJV, ESV, etc. If they are reading and studying the Bible, I'm thrilled!
If the KJV is the ONLY translation for English speaking people, where is this Golden Chain of preservation that takes us from the original autographs, through the Majority Text, to the TR (which one), to our 1769 Blayney Ed. KJV? No one has ever answered that for me. I love the KJ, but I read several translations.
Excellent thoughts. I'm with you, brother. It's so sad to see division over this. Not all division is sin, of course. Division to preserve truth must at times take place. But I've labored to show that the Bible does not teach the doctrines of KJV-Onlyism.
It may seem small, but it carries over into other issues. A friend I have I'm currently thinking her companionship is more pushing her church's standards on others. She'll give me KJVO scriptures but when I memorize or give a scripture in NKJV she won't respond. Sh let's ppl know church is on Wednesday and twice on Sundays, it only gets worse to her commenting that she wondered if I was still going to church because I missed three weeks due to vacation, sickness, then visiting family 8 hrs away. She said she was concerned about me. I also got tired of her inviting me to her church when I was attending a church. So why continue a friendship in which you feel judged as a lesser Christian?
I find this very humorous while simultaneously not being funny. I may not have dealt with exactly KJV-Onlyism but I have with other similar issues in my church. It's inspiring to see a couple being faithful to seek God for what was right for them rather than what others wanted for them.
Alan is a humble and careful guy. Honored to be his friend.
I am grateful to see this video. Who could have ever imagined a bible translation issue effecting a marriage.
Great conversation. Thank you and blessings. 🌹🌹🌹🌹
You are so welcome!
I grew up KJV only I kinda snapped out of it when I read a book of common prayer and saw the psalter in the Coverdale psalms tradition.
Tell me more-how did that help?
This has GOT to hit close to home, or at least in the neighborhood, for anyone who is interested in the topic that is @Mark Ward's specialty, and it's a blessing.
I loved the Heb 10:23 story in particular!
This is exactly where I’m at right now. Not a pastor, but knowing the truth I can’t deny it - and I’m not sure unity with my pastor is possible at this point…but we have so many people here we love and who love us, and I don’t want to have to leave. My wife isn’t on board right now and feels much like this woman did when the issue first came up. This is such a help to me!
Praying now for you to do right and do it wisely and lovingly and patiently.
Great interview! Tough questions especially regarding how to teach children that belong to both of you.
My husband and I went through this coming out of Calvinism. He was very angry and we stood to lose a lot since he was just about to finish his master's from a Calvinist seminary and most of his friends and mentors were Calvinist. Praise God it wasn't long after searching the Scripture for himself that he too left that teaching.
I think this woman should not be restricted in what she reads. To follow God she should read his word in a translation she understands. If it would be disobeying God to refuse to read his word in anything but the Latin Vulgate that you don't understand then it would be equally disobeying God to only read the KJV if you can't understand it.
For her child she should probably continue to use the KJV but read each passage ahead in an understandable translation so that she can translate for her child just like I am sure her husband does as well. Until such time as her husband comes around or their daughter turns 18 and makes her own decision.
Great story. I can't imagine what they had to go through when they knew they had to leave their church. I praise God that I'm from a country where though most people (especially the older people) read the KJV because that is only what we can readily but off book shelves here, we are not a KJV only nation. In fact, I knew nothing of KJV onlism until internet became a part of our daily lives. We just read KJV because that is only what we could buy and when NIV started to sell here, a great majority of the churches started to use that instead. I grew up with the NKJV and now us the ESV. Most young people I know, some who don't even go to church, read multiple different English translations on their phones and tablets. But for those like the lady you mentioned, it can be really hard to be in such as situation. I hope her husband cares more about their child learning Jesus than holding on to a translation of the Bible.
God is moving on this issue in the IFB church. I believe this wonderful testimony is a snapshot of what God is doing.
Thank you, brother Mark!
Amen!
I'm not sure how to word this, but wondering if you might have or know of resources that share about churches that are doctrinally, worshipfully conservative, but don't carry a hardcore King James focus? Don't know if that's possible, but think something like that would be hugely beneficial for others wrestling through this. So just curious about that myself.
I tend to check the 9Marks and TGC church lists, though many or most will have contemporary music.
I think you'll find such descriptions among historic reformed churches and churches that have lineage in the reformations, both on the continent and in the isles. (Various denominations with roots in Scottish Presbyterian, Lutheran, Dutch Reformed, French Huguenot, Anglican, Puritan Congregationalist, etc)
It was in the midst of unifying the kingdoms, with the backdrop of the protestant reformation, that was the "historical stew" as it were out of which the KJV even developed, and I think that's interesting to consider. It's a very different historical picture than what some KJV-onlyists might paint. I think knowing the history helps a lot in these conversations and I think many of the protestant streams that trace their roots back to the reformation era do have more of a connection, in a sense, to that history and so tend to (on average) balance the fidelity to doctrine and worship, while also holding an awareness what humanism brought to the faith (humanism not in the modern sense, but in the sense to get back to "the sources" and original languages of texts) which really gave fuel to the protestant reformation. Perhaps it is only out of that humanism could we have gotten the KJV centuries later...which might be an uncomfortable irony to some.
This plowboy enjoyed watching this video,have to watch it again.
✔
This is a problem to me. I do not understand.
30:55 "Whatever doesn't jive with your conscience is sin"
34:05 "Went past the screaming objections of my own conscience"
48:38 "Drove me past the objections of my conscience" & "push people past their conscience"
Rom 14 speaks of consciences that are too weak, too restricted. Of course, there are consciences that are too free, too! I cannot think of another time in my life when I set out to re-educate my conscience and am glad I did. But I saw by age 18 that those who had restricted my conscience were not as knowledgeable about the Bible and had told me untruths. My God-given pastor at that time was re-educating me and my conscience; so were my Bible teachers. My conscience's objections didn't last long once I actually began to read the NIV and NASB. They were so obviously helpful in my efforts to understand God's word. Does that help?
@@wardonwords Thanks for your reply and the time it took you.
I don't see the word conscience in Romans 14. I only see Faith. The only time I am aware of the Bible talking about changing or altering your conscience is when it says that it can become seared. That is the closest thing in the Bible I am aware of to reeducating your conscience. Am I forgetting something?
Can you explain what you are referring to?
@@DrGero15 I think you have to keep in mind the difference between "word" and "concept." The concept of joy is certainly present in Psalms, for example, in which the word does not appear. You couldn't give a full accounting on the Bible's teaching about joy without mentioning the reasons for and objects of joy in those Psalms. And a word study on "joy" (or the Hebrew and Greek words for "joy") would not take you to those Psalms. Likewise, I think "faith" in "whatever is not of faith is sin" is talking about the conscience. The context is all about conscience issues.
@@wardonwords Very interesting. I'll think about that. Thank you for your reply and the time it took and thank you for your insight. I don't know if I agree with you or not yet but I appreciate your thoughtful approach.
I'd like you to know that nothing I said was in anger or intended to attack you, since text doesn't convey tone of voice or inflection and I tend to be very direct in my writing style. I have done a lot more technical writing than personal.
@@DrGero15 Sometimes the conscience is molded into the image of man, instead of the image of God. Thus the conscience screams false signals that must be pushed through, and corrected.
I'm not crying, you're crying 🥺
No offense to anyone here, but I'm dealing with this the first time ever.
Wish I could go into this more.
But I now know what this is because of a new pastor in our financially troubled church.
Knew something wasn't right here.
Church began to change.
Everything thing we built began to be torn down.
I could go on and on.
Why is everyone starting, or at some point in these conversations here and other videos on this, why must they include how great the KJV is.
Always the same reasons.
It's not the first English translation, or the only one of it's time.
As I've now learned, far from it
The arrogance if they have the only perfect translation when we've found at least 7 hundred thousand more manuscripts and scrolls since then is astounding.
It's just another translation and a very old one.
Why aren't any of the others being lauded?
It's time to move past the apology phase of the KJV only people and speak the truth.
Isn't this what it's all about to begin with?
THE TRUTH.
If they can manipulate so many people with what they already have, just how far are they willing to go?
Or plan to go?
In these times, they are questions that must be considered and never shoved to the side.
In fact, Heb 10.22-24 has a faith-hope-love triad - a detail I use in favor of Pauline authorship of Hebrews. But the KJV muddles it. (I think it was a printer's error. Scrivener emended it in his edition of the KJV; it is why many KJVOs reject his work.)
It shocks me how willing KJV defenders are to insist that Heb 10:23 in the KJV provides a perfectly reasonable, and even an ideal-yea a perfect, rendering of ἐλπίδος. Instead of acknowledging that the ἐλπίδος/faith mismatch is odd or difficult to explain, they take it as another proof of the rightness of their position.
@@wardonwords It's Ruckman's secondary inspiration doctrine... "'Mistakes' in the Authorized Version are ADVANCED REVELATION!" - forget the Greek, it doesn't matter anymore, the First Edition of 1611 is the new autograph from the hand of God himself, and it differs from the Greek anywhere - oh well, the Greek must be wrong because this is the King Jesus Bible, Authorized by God.
And I'll say the same thing to them every time: "Where was the Bible in 1603 then?", because their theology hits a giant wall when asked this.
@@wardonwords Do advocates of the CTs (for there is not just one) not do the same at 2 Peter 3:10 prior to NA28 with a special meaning of 'found' as 'laid bare' or similar?
Different circumstance. KJV defenders are going in reverse, trying to justify the English. Contemporary versions are just trying their best to reflect a very difficult Greek usage.
@markwardonwords Thank you. I take your point. There was a Word Magazine episode that jumped through those hoops in reverse with Hebrews 10. In this video, I like the clarification of what corrects or clarifies or explains what. Also, Strong's becomes the authority in a way that BDAG does not.
I have a similar issue. A woman I know thinks anyone using a Bible other than the KJV isn't Christian ... Thoughts?
She is going far, far beyond the Bible. And by doing so, she is violating the teaching of the Bible. “Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions.” (Galatians 5:19-20 ESV) Division, dissension, strife-this is the fruit of KJV-Onlyism. The Bible does not teach this doctrine, so it is wrong to divide God's people over it. It is most certainly wrong-manifestly wrong, egregiously wrong-to deny the work of the Spirit in others over something this foolish.
However, this poor woman almost certainly doesn't understand any of these things. If you have an open door with her, given how extreme she already is, I'd urge you to tread softly and to steal my arguments. Talk only about English. Tell her what I tell folks like her almost every day: The KJV is an excellent translation-but if you're going to read it exclusively, you need to understand that it was translated into a form of English no one quite speaks or writes anymore. So there are going to be some places where you think you understand but, because of language change, you're going to miss the intent of the KJV translators. For help discerning when this is the case, I encourage you to check out my "Fifty False Friends in the KJV" series on RUclips for help reading the KJV! ruclips.net/p/PLq1Aq0ucgkPCtHJ5pwhrU1pjMsUr9F2rc
Youve gotta read multiple translations.
Right!
13:10 wow. Powerful testimony.
Agreed. Sometimes husbands win their wives "without a word."
I'm very interested in this one. It's a good topic, and one that I know a lot of people will struggle with.
Mark, thank you for this video and thank you to your guests for sharing their personal experiences with the KJVO position.
This is to be sure a delicate matter in so many levels. It is an issue that goes beyond the routine reading of the Word of God. It affects the conscience, relationships, the family and more. But I think in the center of all of these possible undesirable issues is fear. God didn't give a spirit of fear, but rather He gave us a spirit of power, of love and self-control.
I thank God for the ways He has supernaturally preserved His Word for us to be able to read it and understand it. The Lord does say "Come now, let us *reason* together..." Isaiah 1:18. In order to reason with God, the person has to be able to understand what He is calling us to *reason* with Him about.
Personally, I love and appreciate the KJV for its language beauty (it appeals to me; I am a language nerd in many ways), and I appreciate it for its massive contribution it lent to the Revival of the Church centuries ago. To me, it ranks among the most beautiful and compelling works of Literature. But I also read the Word of God in the NASB, the ESV, the NKJV, the NIV, the NLT. In Spanish I read the Word of God in the Reina-Valera 1960 (enjoying its gorgeous Castilian Spanish) and I also read it in the "Nueva Biblia de las America" which is the Spanish version that follows the translation philosophy of the NASB. Whether in English or Spanish, I am confident I am reading the Word of God.
Many blessings :)
Thank you so much! Yes, I pray for this poor pastor's wife who sent me that question to have divine wisdom.
I have now watched a number of your videos and am particularly struck by the concern over how to convey to our children in this one. Having raised two children who are following the Lord and they have 3 adults who do the same (one being in full time christian service)and another 4 on behind I would suggest that we need to back-off the "fighting fundy" attitude meaning I have to always prove that my belief system is correct. I was brought up i the 40 & 50s in a Baptist background. But, my parents and grand-parents knew how to apply the strengths and how to moderately engage in many of the negatives of the "legalism" of the time. We then did the same with our children and they with their children. We need to always to remember that the only question at the "pearly gates" is "do you know my son as your personal savior" not what version, not my view on eschatology, etc but what did I do with Christ and my rewards are based on my using the gifts I was given. I see no gift about defending some of these points making "minors, major" All of this is sad. I grew up with the KJV but we also knew that my word will not return unto me void. This is all sad with the time spent on this. Sad, sad, sad. the waste of God's precious time.
Raising children is not about protecting them but teaching them how to live in this world as we are commended but not being part of it. That needs to be modeled not lectured.
Thank you 🙏🏻
You’re welcome 😊
What happened to these people very sad
I agree!
I will pray that a church, seeking a pastor and their family would be compelled by the Holy Spirit, call on Pastor Allen and Amy . Bless them and heal their pain . That said, they really need to consider writing a book on how one can walk to another chapter of serving Christ in a new and better way. My hope would be that there would be a chance that our Christian brethren( that’s both men, women and children) can also look that to be KJV only often comes across like a defeated army. When a army or nation is defeated in war, often they will close themselves off from the world and make rules of behavior their new faith of allegiance.
Thank you for your prayers!
Sounds like they were in a cult.
I'd leave it to them to say that; I'm not totally sure they would! They got the gospel and many other good things in that world.
As a former KJVO IFB, I wouldn’t quite call them a cult. But they can sometimes be cult like, and many of their beliefs and doctrines tend that way. It’s a church by church, pastor by pastor basis. The church I came from definitely leaned more cultish.
The most anti-KJV only scholars I have read, are the scholars who wrote the Letter to the reader, in the front of the KJV Bible, The KJV translators. I am so sorry for the hurt and pain caused to you and your wife by those who have made the kingdom of God, of syllables. They have full well rejected their own translators words and have laid aside their words and instead taught their own words as commands of God. It's sad.
YES! The KJV Preface is the ultimate anti-KJV-Only document.
@@wardonwords The preface shocked me a bit at first....but then gave me a textual peace I never had before that. I'm thankful they wrote it. God knew some of us would need that.
@@wardonwords that's your opinion. I believe it to be exactly the opposite
Make an argument, my friend. Tell us why you think this. Quote the preface.
@@wardonwords you first
John only had one message. He said John the best man born of a woman. Preach what the spirit say.
This is pretty sad and pathetic. I get the impression that this couple grew up in a KJV Only church that stressed the KJV but didn't major on Bible teaching. Any KJV-Only church worth its salt will teach and explain the word of God simply and plainly. Those people whom I have met and known who were in a KJV church and later turned to modern versions came from KJV churches that were unfortunately weak on teaching Bible doctrine. I have been in and to some of these kinds of churches, where the KJV was "the Book" to them exclusively, but many of the people didn't understand the issues involved to make an intelligent argument for the exclusivity of the KJV. They just believe it and that settles it, which is not an argument or explanation. The IFB churches I have been a part of my entire Christian life (beginning at 17) have been strong and weak churches in regards to doctrine and the reasons they hold to the KJV-Only. The leaders of weak KJV churches hem-haw around the issue and lightly touch on it now and then; the leaders of strong KJV-Only churches teach their people in a sensible and intelligent way why they use the KJV over other versions and those churches mostly have a strong doctrinal foundation that holds the church together. It sounds like this couple is from a KJV-Only church with weak leadership and weak Bible teaching.
The examples they give of contemporary English words and "flow" that give them better understanding of the Scriptures are things that they should have learned from their Pastor and Sunday School teachers in their church. As a result, they are surprised by the word "booty" which occurs 3 times in the KJV, the one the Mrs. refers to being in Zephaniah. We know it means "plunder" or "loot", and we can find that in the dictionary, which is a fine tool for studying the Bible. The word "booty" of course is one which anyone who has watched any "Pirate" movie knows what it means. LOL I have read your book, and watched your video on "false friends" which is very interesting and informative; "false friends" is something I was not familiar with until I saw your video, and it has been helpful in understanding the KJV -- I simply write in the margin of my KJV Bible the meaning of such words, and when preaching and teaching I will explain what a word "means" WITHOUT having to "correct" the KJV, and still hold to the KJV exclusively. (I admit that there are places where the KJV wording is awkward or cumbersome, but I would not say that they are "wrong"; I would and do study them out, and even reference modern versions to see how they handle it, and then come up with a satisfactory (to me) explanation without admitting error in the KJV.)
Here is an example of a verse that I have wrestled with: Matthew 6:27 -- "add one cubit to your stature?" The modern translations say: "add one HOUR" or "add one MOMENT" to your life or lifespan. Although that makes sense, the Greek word for "cubit" is not "hour" or "moment" but CUBIT, and the Greek word for "stature" is not "life" or "lifespan", but STATURE (referring to "height," not length). I would not argue with anyone over no one can "add one cubit to the length of his life" or will himself to live longer than his appointed days. It makes sense; but I would have to keep cubit and stature, and explain it means what it says in the KJV, but it could also carry the figurative meaning of adding length (cubit) to your lifespan (stature; height ?). Any light you have on this one is appreciated.
Respectfully
In regards to translations pre the kjv the kjv is a modern translation. Something like the nkjv or the first niv etc also are not modern anymore. The correct thing would be to call them non kjv translations.
I would recommend taking your KJV Bible and an ESV Bible and then read them together. Do this until you finish reading the Bible.
I promise you, it will give insight into this issue.
I really appreciate your respectfulness here, Brother Dave. I don't think you can say that Alan was given weak defenses of the KJV. He's a sharp guy, and he was raised in a pretty standard KJV-Only world. He went through all the training one is supposed to have in that world. Perhaps he can say more.
I'm so, so glad to hear a KJV defender profiting from my false friends work! My ultimate goal is NOT to move people away from the KJV but to move them toward understanding their Bibles, and if people use my work to do that with the KJV, more power to them. I just don't want them insisting that others have to do it the same way.
Your Matt 6:27 example is one I've thought about a lot. I talk through it a bit during my answer to objection 5 in this video: ruclips.net/video/dvzVOjRJ0nI/видео.html. I hope that helps!
Today, while I was reading through the letter to the reader, in the front of the KJV Bible, I was once again reminded that these great KJV scholars were still ANTI-KJV Only, today, just as they were yesterday. And if God willing I awake again tomorrow, I expect they will still be against dogmatizing those places where the text is not so certain. And I have a feeling if I wake up again tomorrow, there will still be Zero Greek New testament manuscripts, from before the Erasmus New testament, that have the KJV reading in Revelations 22:19..... I hope a day comes soon though, when the TR and KJV only movements can find it in their heart, to support the reading of the scripture in the plain and simple English of our people alive today. Just as Tyndale had a heart for his people in his day.
No one should have to become an expert in Elizabethan English in order to read God's word. Period. That is an artificial barrier that is utterly unnecessary.
Psalms 51:19
[19]Then shalt thou be pleased with the sacrifices of righteousness, with burnt offering and whole burnt offering: then shall they offer bullocks upon thine altar.
This is why I can't read the kjv 😬😅
Try this one. Job 36:32-33 "With clouds he covereth the light; and commandeth it not to shine by the cloud that cometh betwixt.
The noise thereof sheweth concerning it, the cattle also concerning the vapour."
"Hast thou with him spread out the sky, which is strong, and as a molten looking glass? "
" The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light. " don't want married eyes?
"I protest by your rejoicing which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die daily. "
"And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: "
"Let us hold fast the profession of our (hope?) without wavering" (Heb. 10:23) Very weak indeed. Kind of the opposite of Martin Luther, wouldn't you say? Who trusted the scripture, "The just shall live by faith." My question is what Greek text did you use to translate that Greek word. The Critical Text of Westcott and Hort's linage or the Textus Receptus of the King James? By the way, this translation is right up Rome's ecumenical alley because they have no assurance of salvation. They just have a hope maybe that they'll eventually reach heaven after a lengthy stay in Purgatory which is an amazingly false doctrine. But hey, maybe they'll find some ancient Greek manuscripts that teach Purgatory. Then, we'll really be in a pickle, Not! I'll stick with the King James.
There is no difference here between the TR and the critical text. Both contain the Greek word for "hope," ελπις (elpis). If you know some Spanish, it would be like translating a long Spanish document into English and, every single time but one, translating "esperanza" as "hope"-and just that one time, for no reason anyone else can discern, translating "esperanza" (the standard Spanish word for "hope") with the word "faith."
To my knowledge, there are no Greek manuscripts in existence that have the Greek word for "faith" here. All TR editions and all critical text editions agree with all the manuscripts available in using the Greek word for "hope." You also inspired me to check foreign language translations. I checked over 40 translations in English and in the other European languages I can read (with help: German, French, Italian, Portuguese, Dutch), and going back centuries. All translations, including the Geneva Bible and Tyndale, say "hope" here. The only exceptions are the KJV and the Reina-Valera Gomez, which is a Spanish translation made by KJV-Onlyists.
The final Authority is not Holy Scripture alone. It’s the Church, the Holy Tradition, The Ecumenical Counsels, Church Fathers and more.
I cannot say I agree. I am a Protestant who sees Scripture as the ultimate-not the only, but the ultimate-authority. As someone said once, "Popes and councils may err."
Who told you that? Accually, I am in authority over you and now I command you to follow the scriptures only.
This is very divisive. I’m someone who loves their Word of God, (you like to call the cult of KJVO). My wife has been influenced by a modern pastor who likes to demean people who love their Bibles. She and I have almost divorced and now we go to two different churches and she still goes to a church with a pastor who demeans and belittles people who love their bibles.
This of course is not the roll of a pastor nor the roll of a wife, to treat people who love their bibles as being strange and weak in the Word is horribly cruel and mean. If they were more people who loved their bibles, we would know our rolls better.
I do not demean KJV-Onlyists. Some godly, loving, self-sacrificial KJV-Onlyists had an immensely positive impact on me in high school, and they are still my friends.
What is divisive is to go beyond the Bible and insist that other Christians follow practices the Bible does not teach-such as insisting that other people use one and only one Bible translation. The Bible does not teach this, my friend. I pray your marriage does not break up, of course!
Why do you persist in this KJV only pot stirring ?
There are far more better things to do in ministry than endlessly stirring the pot in this area.
If the entire world chose to make the KJV their daily bible reading version, would that bother you.
Let it go! The pedantic monotony of the pot stirring has become esoteric with your every videos on the subject.
“I am doing a great work and I cannot come down. Why should the work stop while I leave it and come down to you?”
should Not be an issue... really... are the men ..aka husbands.... Not supposed to be the leaders in the home.?. if we are truly practicing biblical precepts... I would say that even with women's lib going on.. we need to set equality aside... the home cannot have 2 masters... the wife may choose to read from a different translation than her husband.. but.. it should never become a point of friction.. since she will have to answer to God one day for not submitting to her husband on this... just as..... if He led his wife unwisely........ he will have to answer to God one day..for leading her wrongly...
I really wonder if God will be upset with the Husband preaching from the KJV..or Not preaching from the KJV . more..so..... or less so than with the wife.. for Not submitting to her husband..?
Scriptural preservation means nothing if we don’t have access to it. If we have to keep discovering older manuscripts to correct the biblical text we already have, we can never fully trust the text we have. Scholars who hold to the Critical Text are basically saying that the the biblical text isn’t perfect, and we’ll never know if it is perfect, because there might always be more manuscripts out there that we’ll never discover. In that view, there’s never any closure on the text of scripture. What the Lord is telling me in his word today could change tomorrow. Not very solid ground to stand on. Just some food for thought. 🤷🏻♂️
Please watch my Textual Confidence Collective videos! We talk about this in great detail!
Good observation. The bibical text we have today is not perfect. Our solid ground should be Jesus and not in any particular translation. Jesus is the Word and I trust He will lead us into truth. I believe the Holy Spirit is a better translator than man. To me, the bible is a tool that God uses to lead us to Christ. It's kinda like the Law in that it was used to make the people aware of sin and their need for a savior. The bible does not need to be perfect in order to be an effective tudor that leads us to Christ.
My faith is in Jesus and his work on the cross. Even the most corrupt translations, can lead us to Jesus. In that sense, God has preserved his message even if the translations don't match perfectly.
So relax, and try to not idolize the bible. The paper, ink, leather or translation can't save you, only God can.
@@AlpacaLipps Poor reasoning. We only know who Jesus is FROM the Bible. If it’s not perfect, how do we know that it’s giving us an accurate representation of who Jesus is?
@@stevetucker5851
1 Corinthians 2:9-16 - But as it is written:
“Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.” But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God. For what man knows the things of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so no one knows the things of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might know the things that have been freely given to us by God. These things we also speak, not in words which man’s wisdom teaches but which the Holy Spirit teaches, comparing spiritual things with spiritual. But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. But he who is spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is rightly judged by no one. For “who has known the mind of the LORD that he may instruct Him?” But we have the mind of Christ.
@@AlpacaLipps How do you know that that verse accurately represents the truth? In your view, it could change tomorrow through a new manuscript discovery.