There is never a time that you pay a contractor money up front. It should always be done on draws. You pay for stages when completed, and those are called draws. If they do anything that doesn't meet code, you have a right to withhold payments, until it is brought up to code. If they aren't paying the suppliers, you can also withhold payments until the other trades get paid. He read you as a sucker, and because you gave him anything up front. That is what you are, like it or not!
I wouldn't work for someone that isn't willing to put up a down payment, it's just not worth the risk (unless it is a good repeat customer). Stages can definitely be a good way of doing things especially on bigger projects.
I would remove all of the nails and keep all of the lumber to reuse it. There is nothing wrong with your lumber at all. Check out how RR Buildings builds post frames on RUclips. It's a much better way to build. It's not only much stronger but also way more energy efficient. Look at how he built his Dream Shop.
Be very careful when you fire a contractor. You have to do that legally and don't flat out tell that contractor that your firing him or the contractor can come at you legally and force you to pay the full contract amount and not finish his work. What you need to do on all of your contracts is to state in the contract that "all building materials need to be installed to factory recommended specifications". Example; a composition roofing material says right on the packaging what their standard is for a nailing pattern. That's very important.
Something you might check is that most states contractor licensing boards have a fund that they use to pay owners who have been defrauded by bad contractors. One state I used to live in that fund would pay you $50,000 and that was some time ago. Try calling the state contractors licensing board and ask about this. At the very least, go after this ripoff's license and have it taken from him. Only problem with that is they usually open back up in a few days under a different name or LLC,
Who needs a contractor license in Missouri? The State of Missouri doesn’t require anyone to carry a state-issued contractor's license. While that might seem like a free-for-all, there are actually many requirements within the state - the state government just isn’t the one creating them. Missouri doesn’t make contractors carry licenses, but it does make businesses register with the Secretary of State. Sole proprietorships and general partnerships are exempt, but all other businesses (including any business operating under a fictitious name) must register.
It’s very unfortunate that you have to watch people like a hawk, but this is why. There are a lot of good contractors, but it just takes one bad one to taint people’s opinion about all of them for life. I think you’re approaching this the right way. I doubt you’ll ever get your money back. These guys may spend a few years behind bars, but they will likely come back into society and do it to folks again. Lesson learned should be to vet your contractor. Talk to several people who have used them before choosing them. One last piece of advice…. Be educated about poor workmanship, but DON’T attempt to be your own GC. Without the proper skills, this can lead to uneducated decisions regarding housing science. It’s easy to make bad assumptions and can cost more than you’ve lost already. Godspeed, and I hope you nail these guys (no pun intended).
I've spent enough time in construction, and I've surrounded myself with knowledgeable people, so while I will technically be wearing the GC hat, but I will have a team supporting me.
You may have a good case and likely could win but plan on years of court dates coming and going. Then you would have to collect from a poor company. Good Luck. Don't tear it down. There are ways to replace the sill without taking the entire house down. Headers are easily replaced. Don't just go at it thinking the previous builders will pay the costs. Approach it like you will never see your money again.
I would raise the wall up a few inches and put a pressure treated sill plate in, and then set it back down. You can change out the door headers in place very easily. It sounds like you are just wanting to spend a ton of money, to correct small problems.
Not that it's not that at all. The walls aren't built straight. They are over 2 inches off straight as the base plate, the lumber isn't crowned properly, windows aren't placed right, the studs have to be pulled out and crowned, and if we just added a pressure treated board that'd be a triple bottom plate and the thermal bridging would be extraordinary. There are ultimately multiple reasons we are taking it down, but I'm paying for a premium product, and the product I've got is so far off that either I spend all this money for a subpar home or we stop, back track 5k and then build it right.
You sir, do not understand that it is the contractor's job to do it right the first time. You can't simply raise a wall to put in a proper base plate, when the trusses have been set. Get a life.
@@HalfAssHomestead You sir, don't have a clue what you are talking about. I could easily raise that whole structure in a few hours. Maybe you should go look up Wolfe House & Building Movers (people I personally know, that would consider raising this building too small of a job). I do understand that it is the contractors responsibility to do it right, but also understand that it costs money to tear something down, and it costs money to buy new building materials. I was suggesting a reasonable alternative.
The efficiency loss of that thermal bridge is taken into account, and the cost of Lumber to redo a double bottom plate or the cost of labor to try and salvage some of that Lumber just isn't worth more than loosing 1.5 inches.
@HalfAssHomestead Sir, first off, I love your name. Second off, yes, and no, it's possible it's just really risky. And with no interior walls to catch the trusses, if they fall, we risk someone getting hurt or 5k in trusses being destroyed.
@@RogueWrenching Have you considered replacing the bottom plate in sections, 10 or 12 feet at a time? Just put a 2x6 across the trusses about a foot in from the wall then jack it up with a couple bottle jacks to take the weight off that section. Then cut the nails and take out that section of the bottom plate and replace it with pressure treated wood. Once it's in place, release the jacks enough to lower the wall back onto the bottom plate and nail everything back together. Work out a way to deal with the bolts that hold the bottom plate to the foundation (maybe notch the bottom plate then use a big piece of metal to cover the notch, find a way). The wall only needs to be raised maybe a half inch. Just go around the entire place a few feet at a time. No need to remove the trusses or walls if you're careful.
You really need to contact Labor and Industries or whatever the contractors state license board is called in your state and report this. You also need to go after his bonding. A legal and current licensed, bonded and insured contractor needs to be up to date with those three aspects or he is contracting without one of those items and thus not legal to contract. I would check on his status with the contractors state license board in your state and check to see if he has received any negative remarks, if he was late on any payment and had complaints as well as judgements against his license before. Your dealing with contract law and should start understanding it by reading as much as you can from the contractors state license board in your state as well as going down to a contractors book store and learning how to navigate all of this further.
The problem is that contractors in missouri don't have to be licensed, and I didn't do my due diligence and make sure this clown was legit. I'm pretty sure he's just a fly by night operator.
@@RogueWrenching I've never heard of a contractor that doesn't need to be licensed. That's contracting without a license. Every contractor needs to be licensed, bonded and insured. Every contractor is registered at the contractors state license board in each state.
See it does BUT there's a bit of Missouri state law that lays out how exactly that has to be written in the contract and because the contractor didn't follow state law that piece is null and void.
Not sure if I understood correctly: you fired the general contractor and then hired a framer and now you are suing the framer? Are you suing the general contractor as well?
I fired the GC, hired the framer through my GC originally, and kept the framer when I fired the GC. But what I'm finding out is the GC and the Framer are both working together under 1 LLC. So I'm going to try and sue both of them together.
@@RogueWrenching How did you hear about the contractor? How much time did you spend together and did you communicate? I just recently became a contractor (general contractor but I do mostly septic systems) and I talk to the customers and try to find out what they want and what's important to them. I turn down work sometime because of red flags. Previous bad experiences with contractors is a red flag to me. There are definitely some bad contractors out there but if they mention multiple bad experiences I usually walk away. Whoever you hire next: I would strongly recommend that you hire somebody through word of mouth or a reputable local family or so and communicate with them what's important to you and really work with them.
First, liked and subscribed....I want to see you prevail here and good luck. Your levelheadedness and patience is beyond commendable. Now... I'm a semi retired Chicago area builder for over 40 years. Did he not provide COIs (certificates of insurance, sorry) prior to contract? Was a performance bond requested by you or your lender/title company if these were borrowed funds? That's commonplace good business practice. He would have had to have shown sufficient cash/assets to even be considered "bondable". Sadly, if this guy is a true ripoff bust out.....even with a judgement in your favor he would have to be collectible and that could be another full legal procedure in itself. If they get a fraud conviction, his sitting in prison isn't going to make you financially whole. On a more positive note, as long as you continue renewing and pursuing the judgement that you'll likely get, he will be effectively kneecapped from ever buying a home that requires a mortgage and title insurance as a judgement search is one of the closing checklist items and it is part of the public record once recorded and could also affect his banking, employment, insurance and a host of other necessities. Hope this works out in your favor and I'm sorry you're dealing with such a scammer.
What a shame that you can’t even build a home and get quality work up to code very disappointing how America is going, like you can’t trust anyone specially contractors
unfortunately there are those contractors out there. after firing your general contractor, did you decide to act as a general? if so, good luck suing your subcontractor. currently it is very too popular for homeowners to act as a general because they can save money, which can work out, but you are taking on the responsibility of general contractor too.
Yes, I'm the GC, and yes, I'm going to sue my sub. He's in breach of contract, and the contract will be terminated automatically if he does not correct the default by Thursday. I'm legally entitled to my deposit back if he never performed the work. It looks like my ex GC and this sub are working together to defraud me. I'm hoping to sue them both.
@RogueWrenching Good luck. it's not fair to you. but I also see the fact that you walked yourself into this situation by taking the place of GC. It sort of looks like you could have Avoided this by doing some homework and do research on your original general contractor
I'm taking over the role of GC, and I've got great subs lined up that have been properly vetted. There isn't any money left here to hire anyone else, unfortunately.
💡You will likely be very happy with the Amish builders. Ask your attorney if you should take down this video and others videos because of things you said in them.
You didn’t catch him doing work that isn’t code early in the construction. The FIRST thing that was to be done was use Treated lumber for the sill plates. FIRST THING, unless there was no seal under the plates on the concrete floor.
Ok now that I get a better look at the structure I don’t think it’s a 200.000 framing job But material and labor should prob be around 100k, east coast pricing
@ I hope you get um I’m only a few hours away in northern Arkansas and I hate to see this happen to you. I always wanted to get into your profession but I ended up in carpentry and woodworking. Wishing you the best and I’ll pray those thieves get there come upins.
Praying for a righteous outcome, cant wait for this to be done
You should get a title update immediately to check for any other mechanic liens!! Prayers for a good outcome.
There were grains of hope and encouragement in this video. May Justice prevail!
Sorry for your loss
There is never a time that you pay a contractor money up front. It should always be done on draws. You pay for stages when completed, and those are called draws. If they do anything that doesn't meet code, you have a right to withhold payments, until it is brought up to code. If they aren't paying the suppliers, you can also withhold payments until the other trades get paid. He read you as a sucker, and because you gave him anything up front. That is what you are, like it or not!
Unfortunately, you're absolutely correct. It's an expensive lesson but one I've learned well.
I wouldn't work for someone that isn't willing to put up a down payment, it's just not worth the risk (unless it is a good repeat customer). Stages can definitely be a good way of doing things especially on bigger projects.
ima diy guy for a reason.
Yea... I'm getting there.
I would remove all of the nails and keep all of the lumber to reuse it. There is nothing wrong with your lumber at all. Check out how RR Buildings builds post frames on RUclips. It's a much better way to build. It's not only much stronger but also way more energy efficient. Look at how he built his Dream Shop.
That's how I wanted to build this originally. But we've got building codes to work with.
Be very careful when you fire a contractor. You have to do that legally and don't flat out tell that contractor that your firing him or the contractor can come at you legally and force you to pay the full contract amount and not finish his work. What you need to do on all of your contracts is to state in the contract that "all building materials need to be installed to factory recommended specifications". Example; a composition roofing material says right on the packaging what their standard is for a nailing pattern. That's very important.
Yes, I'm meeting with an attorney on Wednesday. I'm treading very carefully
Something you might check is that most states contractor licensing boards have a fund that they use to pay owners who have been defrauded by bad contractors. One state I used to live in that fund would pay you $50,000 and that was some time ago. Try calling the state contractors licensing board and ask about this. At the very least, go after this ripoff's license and have it taken from him. Only problem with that is they usually open back up in a few days under a different name or LLC,
I don't think this clown is even licensed.
Who needs a contractor license in Missouri?
The State of Missouri doesn’t require anyone to carry a state-issued contractor's license. While that might seem like a free-for-all, there are actually many requirements within the state - the state government just isn’t the one creating them.
Missouri doesn’t make contractors carry licenses, but it does make businesses register with the Secretary of State. Sole proprietorships and general partnerships are exempt, but all other businesses (including any business operating under a fictitious name) must register.
Correct
It’s very unfortunate that you have to watch people like a hawk, but this is why. There are a lot of good contractors, but it just takes one bad one to taint people’s opinion about all of them for life.
I think you’re approaching this the right way. I doubt you’ll ever get your money back. These guys may spend a few years behind bars, but they will likely come back into society and do it to folks again. Lesson learned should be to vet your contractor. Talk to several people who have used them before choosing them.
One last piece of advice…. Be educated about poor workmanship, but DON’T attempt to be your own GC. Without the proper skills, this can lead to uneducated decisions regarding housing science. It’s easy to make bad assumptions and can cost more than you’ve lost already.
Godspeed, and I hope you nail these guys (no pun intended).
I've spent enough time in construction, and I've surrounded myself with knowledgeable people, so while I will technically be wearing the GC hat, but I will have a team supporting me.
You may have a good case and likely could win but plan on years of court dates coming and going. Then you would have to collect from a poor company. Good Luck. Don't tear it down. There are ways to replace the sill without taking the entire house down. Headers are easily replaced. Don't just go at it thinking the previous builders will pay the costs. Approach it like you will never see your money again.
Replacing the sill plate is harder than you think, when the trusses have already been put in place.
I don't expect to see my money back at any point unfortunately.
I would raise the wall up a few inches and put a pressure treated sill plate in, and then set it back down. You can change out the door headers in place very easily. It sounds like you are just wanting to spend a ton of money, to correct small problems.
Not that it's not that at all. The walls aren't built straight. They are over 2 inches off straight as the base plate, the lumber isn't crowned properly, windows aren't placed right, the studs have to be pulled out and crowned, and if we just added a pressure treated board that'd be a triple bottom plate and the thermal bridging would be extraordinary. There are ultimately multiple reasons we are taking it down, but I'm paying for a premium product, and the product I've got is so far off that either I spend all this money for a subpar home or we stop, back track 5k and then build it right.
Hopefully they have insurance or cash for you to get. People like this are usually running from one scam to another.
@jamespeterson686 Honestly, I'd be surprised if I ever see this money again. But goodness only knows I'm gonna try.
You sir, do not understand that it is the contractor's job to do it right the first time. You can't simply raise a wall to put in a proper base plate, when the trusses have been set. Get a life.
@@HalfAssHomestead You sir, don't have a clue what you are talking about. I could easily raise that whole structure in a few hours. Maybe you should go look up Wolfe House & Building Movers (people I personally know, that would consider raising this building too small of a job). I do understand that it is the contractors responsibility to do it right, but also understand that it costs money to tear something down, and it costs money to buy new building materials. I was suggesting a reasonable alternative.
Why don’t you just stack another sole plate to bring your ceiling height back up to 10’?
The efficiency loss of that thermal bridge is taken into account, and the cost of Lumber to redo a double bottom plate or the cost of labor to try and salvage some of that Lumber just isn't worth more than loosing 1.5 inches.
Once the trusses are installed, you can't simply raise the house to put in a new sill plate.
@HalfAssHomestead Sir, first off, I love your name. Second off, yes, and no, it's possible it's just really risky. And with no interior walls to catch the trusses, if they fall, we risk someone getting hurt or 5k in trusses being destroyed.
@@RogueWrenching Have you considered replacing the bottom plate in sections, 10 or 12 feet at a time? Just put a 2x6 across the trusses about a foot in from the wall then jack it up with a couple bottle jacks to take the weight off that section. Then cut the nails and take out that section of the bottom plate and replace it with pressure treated wood. Once it's in place, release the jacks enough to lower the wall back onto the bottom plate and nail everything back together. Work out a way to deal with the bolts that hold the bottom plate to the foundation (maybe notch the bottom plate then use a big piece of metal to cover the notch, find a way). The wall only needs to be raised maybe a half inch. Just go around the entire place a few feet at a time. No need to remove the trusses or walls if you're careful.
@@HalfAssHomestead Yes you can. In about the time it took to watch this video.
Time for jail for them!!!
Big Red flag when a framer doesnt put treated seal plate down. YUGE RED FLAG.
Yea, and I was so nieve in thinking these guys knew what they were doing. I didn't catch it till now.
Better look to see if anything has been paid for, i.e. concrete and underground plumbing, to name a few items.
Yea, I'm digging. The only thing that's unaccounted for is the lumber. And I can't find who the supplier was for that. But I'm gonna keep digging.
You really need to contact Labor and Industries or whatever the contractors state license board is called in your state and report this. You also need to go after his bonding. A legal and current licensed, bonded and insured contractor needs to be up to date with those three aspects or he is contracting without one of those items and thus not legal to contract. I would check on his status with the contractors state license board in your state and check to see if he has received any negative remarks, if he was late on any payment and had complaints as well as judgements against his license before. Your dealing with contract law and should start understanding it by reading as much as you can from the contractors state license board in your state as well as going down to a contractors book store and learning how to navigate all of this further.
The problem is that contractors in missouri don't have to be licensed, and I didn't do my due diligence and make sure this clown was legit. I'm pretty sure he's just a fly by night operator.
@@RogueWrenching I've never heard of a contractor that doesn't need to be licensed. That's contracting without a license. Every contractor needs to be licensed, bonded and insured. Every contractor is registered at the contractors state license board in each state.
Better hope the contract doesn't require AAA arbitration. You'll be screwed by those contractor-centric arbitrators.
See it does BUT there's a bit of Missouri state law that lays out how exactly that has to be written in the contract and because the contractor didn't follow state law that piece is null and void.
Not sure if I understood correctly: you fired the general contractor and then hired a framer and now you are suing the framer? Are you suing the general contractor as well?
I fired the GC, hired the framer through my GC originally, and kept the framer when I fired the GC. But what I'm finding out is the GC and the Framer are both working together under 1 LLC. So I'm going to try and sue both of them together.
@@RogueWrenching How did you hear about the contractor? How much time did you spend together and did you communicate? I just recently became a contractor (general contractor but I do mostly septic systems) and I talk to the customers and try to find out what they want and what's important to them. I turn down work sometime because of red flags. Previous bad experiences with contractors is a red flag to me. There are definitely some bad contractors out there but if they mention multiple bad experiences I usually walk away. Whoever you hire next: I would strongly recommend that you hire somebody through word of mouth or a reputable local family or so and communicate with them what's important to you and really work with them.
First, liked and subscribed....I want to see you prevail here and good luck. Your levelheadedness and patience is beyond commendable.
Now... I'm a semi retired Chicago area builder for over 40 years.
Did he not provide COIs (certificates of insurance, sorry) prior to contract?
Was a performance bond requested by you or your lender/title company if these were borrowed funds? That's commonplace good business practice. He would have had to have shown sufficient cash/assets to even be considered "bondable".
Sadly, if this guy is a true ripoff bust out.....even with a judgement in your favor he would have to be collectible and that could be another full legal procedure in itself. If they get a fraud conviction, his sitting in prison isn't going to make you financially whole.
On a more positive note, as long as you continue renewing and pursuing the judgement that you'll likely get, he will be effectively kneecapped from ever buying a home that requires a mortgage and title insurance as a judgement search is one of the closing checklist items and it is part of the public record once recorded and could also affect his banking, employment, insurance and a host of other necessities.
Hope this works out in your favor and I'm sorry you're dealing with such a scammer.
I don't think anyone looked at any of that. I'm learning a lot. Unfortunately, the hard way. But I'm going to pursue every legal avenue I can.
It your correct on all the code violations
I've spoken with the county inspector and reviewed the specific codes. It's definitely in violation
What a shame that you can’t even build a home and get quality work up to code very disappointing how America is going, like you can’t trust anyone specially contractors
It sucks.
unfortunately there are those contractors out there.
after firing your general contractor, did you decide to act as a general? if so, good luck suing your subcontractor.
currently it is very too popular for homeowners to act as a general because they can save money, which can work out, but you are taking on the responsibility of general contractor too.
Yes, I'm the GC, and yes, I'm going to sue my sub. He's in breach of contract, and the contract will be terminated automatically if he does not correct the default by Thursday. I'm legally entitled to my deposit back if he never performed the work. It looks like my ex GC and this sub are working together to defraud me. I'm hoping to sue them both.
@RogueWrenching Good luck. it's not fair to you. but I also see the fact that you walked yourself into this situation by taking the place of GC. It sort of looks like you could have Avoided this by doing some homework and do research on your original general contractor
@samuelhostetler7608 100%
Call Aarow Building in Missouri
I'm taking over the role of GC, and I've got great subs lined up that have been properly vetted. There isn't any money left here to hire anyone else, unfortunately.
@@RogueWrenchingprobably the best case scenario
$64k just for the labour?!
That's the deposit for material and labor for the whole exterior (framing, zip system, siding, soffit / facia, and roofing).
@@RogueWrenching Ahh i see. I'm sorry you're are going through that ordeal. Stressful I can Imagine!
Very sorry this was your experience
It sucks.
💡You will likely be very happy with the Amish builders. Ask your attorney if you should take down this video and others videos because of things you said in them.
I would be thrilled to help you "stop" this guy.
Hi Brett
Is this the new GC? Or the old GC
Old GC / "Framing sub"
You didn’t catch him doing work that isn’t code early in the construction. The FIRST thing that was to be done was use Treated lumber for the sill plates. FIRST THING, unless there was no seal under the plates on the concrete floor.
My own lack of knowledge hurt me on that. I saw the lumber wasn't treated and it didn't click that that was going to be a problem.
maybe do your checks before you sign with rogues
Trust but verify. I did a terrible job vetting these people and they took full scale advantage of me.
Ok now that I get a better look at the structure I don’t think it’s a 200.000 framing job
But material and labor should prob be around 100k, east coast pricing
From a reputable company out here, framing and sheeting is about 40k for both materials and labor.
@@RogueWrenchingthat’s not bad
@daverohner271 I just wish I had started there.
You will never get your money from these dirt bags. Don’t waste your time and move on.
Criminal fraudulent conspiracy if there working together
I'm 95% sure that's what this is. I just have to prove it.
@ I hope you get um I’m only a few hours away in northern Arkansas and I hate to see this happen to you. I always wanted to get into your profession but I ended up in carpentry and woodworking. Wishing you the best and I’ll pray those thieves get there come upins.
Just subed. Good luck to you and your family.
Thank you for the support!
Next time, licenses, references, in writing. timelines in writing. Bonding ins. and if you want it done at a fair price. hire a Hispanic co. Word.
Im sub and liked ! Let's get you that Add money to continue the build ❤🩹
Thanks!