Clarification post for those who need it: Reasons I did not hit legend that were my fault - did not count, fast move optimize or attempt to become a better battler; - focused more on my channel requiring me to change teams every 2 sets instead of running with one team - couldn't figure out the meta and find that 24-4 team I normally do - played slightly under my normal win percentage - competition is just getting better while I have plateaued Not my fault: 25 games lost due to game bugs costing me 4-1 & 5-0 where ELO pushes are made Algorithm: likely an algorithm to hold people around 50% but those better battlers can beat it for a 55 and above win percentage
Do people really think Niantic cares enough about GBL to invest the time and money to write a complicated algorithm that they would have to update every season to keep people's win rates around 50%? I think it's more likely because great league becomes more RPS each season.
I don't want to side with Poke AK, but for me, I noticed that the glitches happened more often at the decisive moment of the battle, or when I am on a losing streak. And yes, the common recurrence of hard counter (i.e. Venusaur when I had Swampert, Ampharos when I had water types, Talonflame when I had Tsareena, Charmers when I had Giratina/Goodra). Also it is proven that some people have hacks some that they can read you team before the battle even started.
@@danielw00ds Yep. Everything is fine unless my team hard counters someone, then the glitches show up. So I cant even take advantage of the good match ups.
I hit my all time highest elo, ive played for like 1.5 years... I managed to hit 2450? ish elo while turn counting as much as I knew how and all that, I watch videos of legends who play around the same as I do.. so it just doesnt make sense, I get the same luck using random stuff like raichu as I do using meta stuff like annhialape and skarmory
@@alfiesmullet1311 there has to be some sort of algorithm. I will run the same team for two sets see a lot of common opponents, switch to a new team for a set of two to counter them, get a lot of new hard counter opponents, then switch back to the original team only to see the original common opponents again. Not saying it's specifically targeted to keep you from climbing, and the averages workout better if I stick to the same team unless I'm just losing a ridiculous amount of battles, but there has to be some sort of algorithm that decides who you're going to face.
This was the first season I hit legend. And not just that, but I hit 3400 something and peaked at #142 of the leaderboard. And 90% of the contribution to that came from your videos. I watched a lot of your old series, too. I got better at balanced team building. I started to count. Learn movesets, energy management and ran a lot of simulations on pvpoke to get a feeling for pokemon matchups and the damage dealt in these matchups. I am really thankful for that. I am and will continue to be a big fan of yours. In my perception you always had the only real gbl channel that actually teaches you how to become better at the game. But in the last months I noticed that you get more and more frustrated with the game. It is ok if you let that out, who a I to even judge that. But you entertaining the whole algorithm topic as if a close to 50% win ratio for the big part of the player base isn't simply a part of ANY ranking based matchmaking system leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth. If you're temporarily at 60%+ win ratio your rank will skyrocket. You will face harder opponents. You will loose more and your win ratio will fall closer to fifty. If you continue to win your rank will continue to rise. Until youre in the rank with people as good as you. What will lead to a 50%ish win ratio again. Or until you on the top top of the leaderboard. It's the same system with every ranking based match making of zero sum games. I play chess too and I never heard anyone in the chess community argue that there is an algorithm that pairs them with people who tend to play openings that counter theirs. They get paired with people at their Elo level in the long run. Just as here you don't get paired by teams but by your gbl ranking (which is not exactly an Elo system mathematically speaking, but that is a different story). You always correctly talked about the standard distribution when it comes to team paring, but why don't you translate it to the paring by ranking? Anyways, thank you for your videos Dan. I hope you will find all the fun in the game and the videos that brought you to doing it to begin with.
As someone who has hit legend every season since season 5, I definitely believe that the skill of the average player has increased substantially. It is now way less common to see people in the 2400s throw charge moves on poor timing, and there is honestly little difference in skill between veteran players and legend players. I also went through a phase of thinking that I was washed and wasn’t good at the game anymore. So I buckled down and really started focusing on improving my skills even further. After that, I was able to hit legend again just like before. The reason I struggled was because I got lazy and stopped improving my gameplay while everyone else just got better as each season passed. If you want to stay on top, you have to keep improving, even if you think your skill level is way above everyone else’s. That goes for most games, and as obvious as that may seem, I didn’t realize it until recently.
I recently ran a team I saw of Sableye, S-Aslash and S-Venusaur. After seeing almost no fire types with my previous team, I ran into 3 teams with Skeledirge in the back and 1 with Talonflame. If that doesn’t tell you there is an algorithm then I don’t know what else will. It’s pretty clear you see certain Pokemon based on your team comp.
Algorithm aside, an elo system is fundamentally broken when many of the participants intentionally lose for the purpose of earning greater rewards. There are just so many players out there who, once they reach level 20, just tank their rating as low as possible in order to optimize rewards especially for things like go battle weekend or 4x dust weeks. Very often you end up playing against significantly higher rated opponents who are essentially just smurfing.
@@WichoMalanga no my guy we are skilled to the point we manipulate the algo to our benefit. Once you quit denying its existence, you can begin to understand it, which obviously leads to manipulation for our gain.
Dan, I really recommend taking time to figure out what you want for your channel. Do you primarily want to make money? If so, I think running 13+ teams a week, pushing the idea that Niantic is countering your team comp to keep you near 50% are going to be really effective. I anticipate that the outcome of your channel would just be making GBL an energy drain for the people who watch your channel (because they’ll focus on how they’re being hard countered instead of how they can teambuild and play better), but you CAN do that. If you primarily want your channel to educate people about GBL and help them have fun with it, then stop switching your team so much, play when you can pay better attention to what’s happening, and be more intentional about teambuilding. Stop playing metas you really don’t like. My sense is that you’ve gotten really off track from this ideal of educating people and helping them have fun. When one of your last teams of the season had a Clodsire on it, and you’ve been talking all season about your frustration with Skarmory + Whiscash cores and how Gligar is everywhere, it tells me you’re at the “throwing things at the wall” stage rather than really analyzing your opponent’s teams and seeing what’s effective. Basically, your channel can make money by feeding people’s rage and frustration, or it can be an educational resource to help them enjoy the game (and you’ll potentially make somewhat less money from it). The former is a totally legitimate choice if you need the money, I’d just be sure you’re making that choice intentionally if you do. We can’t prove whether a matchmaking algorithm based on team comp exists or not (Niantic has specifically said they don’t check your team for matchmaking, but I can’t force anyone to believe them). But the question is, what are the actual consequences of believing or not believing in that kind of algorithm? In my mind, all believing in it does (whether it exists or not) is lead you to believe that you don’t have control over whether you win or lose, leading you to give up on adapting your team or play patterns. I don’t believe in it, and I put a lot of thought into the teams I make. They usually work out pretty well. If I find that they’re consistently struggling due to team comp (say, for at least two days worth of battles), I’ll change it to a new team. I track every opponent’s team that I face when I’m trying to do well in a certain meta, so that when I DO change my team, I can predict how my new team will do against all of the things I’ve seen (not just the past two sets), and I don’t just think about the lead match-up. This way, I’m more prepared for the different team comps I might face, and I have at least somewhat of a plan for how to play out bad match-ups. I’m not the best player out there (I’ve never played in a tournament, for example), but I’m better than most, and I did get on the leaderboard the last two seasons. Your evidence for the algorithm (the best players are only at ~55% when they should be at ~65%) fundamentally misunderstands how the Elo system works. The best players stay at around 55% (or less) because all of their opponents are ALSO among the best players. That’s why long queue times happen. Some of those great players will also tank intentionally to reduce queue times, getting the win rate back to that 50-55%. This system IS set up to make you win 50% of the time, but it doesn’t do so by checking team comps. It does so by pitting you against opponents who are at a similar skill level to you, both in terms of gameplay and in terms of reading and team building for the meta. The really good players do usually stick with one team, but they thought that team out REALLY thoroughly ahead of time. When I do that (make my own team that plays well against the meta I expect to see), I usually do really well. In metas where I don’t plan like that or can’t find a team, I usually do less well. If I don’t enjoy the meta, I just don’t play it. I don’t think I’ve played open GL since early that season for exactly that reason; I couldn’t find a team I liked, and I wasn’t enjoying it. Sorry this is so long; I hope some of it is helpful! Good luck in finding what you want from the channel and building it towards that, and all the best to you and your family.
Beyond this, you need to balance your channel with life. You have a family and full time job. You don't need to be going to this hard in a physical activity mobile game when there are far more fulfilling avenues around you. You can't compete with people who make this game their full time job. You not hitting legend is no surprise when earlier this season you made a video called "The beginning of the end". Perhaps it's time to pivot the direction of your channel. Maybe give yourself different challenges, like winning with silly user submitted teams, and then deep diving with those said teams. Shout casting isn't it. Dozens of other people do it already.
Good write up. What Meta do you normally play? I started in ultra, then found it costly and never could find a team. So do mostly great now. I do have a master team that are all useful in pvp and pve, that's the only way I'll invest in master is dual use.
@@GenericMidwesterner honestly, I usually play the “limited” meta (so I’m playing Ultra Premier right now). When all three metas are available I typically play Ultra League (although I do typically play Great League when there are new meta shifts; I’m more talking about this season and the second half of last season where everything’s stayed the same), but because I had already hit Legend, I just didn’t play the last week of last season.
I don’t necessarily think it tries to keep you at 50 perfectly but I definitely think it tries to create even matchups by matching based on the Pokémon types and moves in your team and you end up getting hard countered because it does a really bad job of balancing and so it actually ends up hard countering you a lot. This is especially true if you use random teams. You will see the Pokémon that breaks your core almost immediately. And if you change your team you will see completely different teams
Dan, I think through the video you actually disproved your idea of an algorithm to keep you at 50%. The problem with assuming a normal distribution is that it doesn't take into account other factors outside of the randomness in the "get one from close Elo" match-making algorithm. And you mentioned those other factors: Bugs on the game, unreliable connection, how often you change teams, the skill of other players, the meta. Those variables are not part of the standard distribution and still affect your win percentage. The last two are also related: Now that players are more skilled (and more informed), you are also harder punished for going off meta or for having small flaws in team composition. Maybe part of the reason why you had trouble finding the anti-meta sweet spot. This is also important with things like unstable connection: If the players are more skilled, you get harder punished for playing during your commute, on the bus, with a connection that sometimes causes a few seconds lag (I noticed this, by the way, I can no longer just casually play outside or I lose more than normal). When you combine all of those factors, it makes sense that you felt hard-countered more often. It is just a combination of: 1) The meta is pretty much settled, 2) the meta is also so wide that there aren't anti-meta cores that aren't easy to break, 3) you get harder punished for bugs or unstable connection, 4) the opposing players are better informed, and 5) you couldn't settle for a team.
Some great points Dan. Obviously an 'algorithm' is a difficult subject in this community, but I definitely scratched my head when I hadn't seen a whimsicott the whole season and then saw it 3 times in 1 set when I ran the lanturn double dragon team, once I changed my team I never saw it again the rest of the season.
The algorithm only hurts you. Make sure you never give the algorithm credit when you're winning. That's the problem with you people. You crave your failures, and explain them away as someone else's fault, ALWAYS. Get better, period.
@Bluebloods7 there are many times where I've hard countered people after a bad set and I give the algorithm credit for helping me. It goes both ways and I think the majority of people realize that. It's not an excuse. It's just part of what happens in GBL
It’s only gonna get harder Dan. There’s nothing to “wait and see” about next season. Everyone is good now. You yourself admitted you aren’t doing enough, yet you expect to get by because “you never had to (count, catch, etc) before and always got away with it.” I like you Dan, but let’s be real for second. Everybody was affected by the same factors you mentioned, yet a ton of people hit legend, including a lot of first-time legends during catch cup. The amount of people helping/coaching in discord calls nowadays is insane. Counting is importing, energy management is important, team reading is important, and EVERYBODY is learning it one way or another. The community is full of super helpful people willing to help and teach others, it’s incredible. I’m excited for the direction of the channel. If I can offer some constructive feedback: I’d like your analysis to be a little more focused. Maybe have some bullet points or something prepared so there’s less rambling. I think you have good topics but you tend to ramble or go off on tangents a lot. Makes watching hard sometimes. I don’t mind sitting through long videos, but it’s important to stay in track. Also, if you’re going to put “analyzing” in the video title then it would be helpful to use actual numbers of some sort of visuals to help the actual analysis. A talking head looking at pvpoke rankings isn’t very analytical. It’d be cool to see how move updates change specific matchups using the battle simulator or something. Idk just throwing that out there. See you next season!
This is the first time I never finished playing a season. I stopped playing gbl for the last month of the season. Started when I got 20 points from expert and then all of a sudden drop to 2500. Several times of the game lag where you have no idea how many fast moves the opponent used to causing you not to hit the bubbles for excellent on cmp causing the opponent to barely survive and then take me out.
Oh I've quit on the season several times now. It's literally pointless. If I have to time to kill, I play it. That's it. There is no goal or satisfaction in doing anymore.
You say they don't care enough about GBL to do that code, but you have to distinguish the project managers and business leads from the engineers and coders. The project teams who manage the GBL schedule and it's appeal clearly don't care about GBL, but I would say the engineers and coders will care about anything they do massively and if one of them develops a code capable of seeing who's online, reading your Elo and reading your teams, they'll make sure everyone in that business knows about it and it's used, not because it's good for GBL, but because it's a personal and career achievement that they've developed this awesome code. We've seen the discord bot capable of reading teams a couple of months ago so clearly there's got to be something in the game that allowed it to do that 🤷
As someone who’s been to legend every season, next season just frustrates me as the pose is lack luster and the lag still there. I’ll probably be taking a break not only for PvP but to rest and do other things
No, the algorithm exists because algorithms are base parts of any game development. If you truly believe this game and GBL aren't built around algorithms then you are A) very dense and B) need to look up how games are coded and developed. The GBL matchmaking algorithm without a doubt exists, but becomes more noticeable when you are losing and not progressing ranks. @anthonyiscoolxx
I uninstalled the game just the other day and this is a big part of why I did. They just don't care and after several seasons of seeing bugs go unfixed, good features and bonuses be taken away I was done with it. They take away things like classic leagues because you know it's easy to xl's but then after the next while make it harder to get xl's. Or say we want people to raid in person but then location lock certain raids. It was great game concept that is very poorly managed.
I redownloaded this game from being a day 1 player around go fest 2023 I didn’t even know there was a pvp. I then started playing it and really liked it and started collecting PVP IV Pokémon. I got ace first time then veteran a couple times. This season I hit expert & legend for the first time. I definitely accredit being able to from watching your channel and learning things like move timing etc, building teams etc. I found an older video of yours of ABB teams and i really enjoyed the way ABB teams worked and decided to go with it this season. I used lanturn, ninetails(charm), Wiggly to hit legend. I think it’s probably as you said why you didn’t hit it the 4-1s 5-0s add up. I went on a super lucky run of those the last few days of the season boosted me up from the 2800s. Anyways thanks for all the help and good luck on your run and channel this season Dan.
I really like how you analyze your own gameplay to find out what errors you made along the way and it made me think of a huge mistake that I think I'm doing that got me stranded at Veteran this season. I would find a team that's doing really well and go on a pretty good win streak then I hit a wall where I get hard countered every single game and go on a losing streak and I would conclude that I have to change my team because it now sucks at this ELO because everything's hard countering me, but then I go with another content creator's team that I'm not that familiar with and drop even more. I think I just need to be proficient with a team that works for me and accept that there will be times that the game will hard counter me when I'm doing well, but that I just have to ride that out and focus on mastering the team instead. I really like how you go into the analysis behind everything and make people think and not just say "this team will dominate for you." I really appreciate your content. Keep doing what you're doing. To me, you're a legend no matter what your ELO says. Thanks again.
Exactly this. Some days are net positives, others are net negatives, but sticking with the same team allowed me to climb to veteran for the first time. Then I had a couple bad days, and changed my team several times. Fell all the way back down to 2025 by the end of the season. Consistency and learning your team in all matchup situations is key
One fascinating thing I found in master league was that you’ll find people in the 2800s with basically zero game mechanic skills up there strictly because they’re running the zygard-solgaleo core. Faced multiple people who behaved like rocket leaders (shielded first two moves and wouldn’t switch out)
As a seasoned veteran of GBL who has hit legend every season. I even auto-rekt to legend last season I would say that swapping in master league is usually a guaranteed loss. Unless you have a zacian on your team. You could argue Lando too. Usually if you play out the lead you can then farm down and sweep in ML unlike great league. They’re not at all comparable when ML Pokémon generally can nearly one shot any other mon. Sure the zygardes are overpowered. I am not making mine because it’s trash but I have every other meta mon and would say there’s lots of cores that are more viable or just as viable. Just my thoughts it’s not like great league where you want to catch moves like in great league.
I learned a lot from your channel and got to oppose you in the 2400's this season. It was the highlight of my GBL experience. If you switch formats, I'd like to watch you stick with a team and hear your thoughts as you play live matches. I still have a lot to learn and you do a great job explaining the game mechanics.
GBL just needs more viable PkMn its just too rock, paper, scissors. There is a reason the mainline games have abilities, held-items and double battles for pvp.
Hey man, you were the first youtuber I started watching in last July and I learned a lot. I don't think it is a coincidence or an algorithm or anything. 3 months ago you released a video 'beginning of the end ... and I don't care anymore' and I definitely think that is a massive problem. One of the last videos I saw of your push you just clearly were just burned out. People are getting better and you're still a good player. In your earlier videos you were reading lines and maximizing energy and that is stuff you just don't bother with anymore. Really hope you find your stride again
I think that the fact that you couldn’t find “the team” is deeply tied to the player base getting better and you not counting / focussing on fast move timing etc. Many people copy top player’s teams, but not many hit legend. The difference is in the individual skill of the trainer, so with a top tier battler the team maybe goes 20/5, while with a lesser skilled battler it becomes maybe 16/9.
Legend battler here. Your experience with GBL recently is very similar to mine. IMO, definitely a matchmaking system based on typing. That's the mechanism for keeping you close to 50%. You get some favorable leads, some neutral ones, and some bad ones. Niantic just divides everyone's type matchups into a 3 table calculation. So, that's 33.3% each of good, neutral, and bad. The order isn't linear, so you can get any kind in any order. What you see is random in that respect. And of course, you always remember when the bad ones are consecutive. Utilizing skill and team reading keeps you above 50% in all scenarios. My two cents.
Dan, your team helped me meet legend for the first time. While I really appreciate that but honestly you have really plateaued. I don't play GBL anymore, but there are many times I screamed in my heart when you don't count move, when you throw at bad timing. Counting moves and throwing at good timing is basics now. Others are waiting a turn before throwing to avoid opponent catching your move, or wait a turn before switching to cause opponent throwing at alignment to sneak a move through or to do CPM Sac swap, or throw 2 x 2 turns move before switching out against incinerate users to maximise energy generation during 1 turn switch out etc. You need to do the basics and incorporate more advanced game play because everyone is getting better.
For sure there is a algorithm other them your elo, there is no way you use a common team 50 times row them change your team use a spice pokemon like alakazam for fun and for the first time there is a match against a trainer with a Alakazam
I can't believe you're leaning towards an algorithm! I know you said it's not all the way PokeAK algo - but I'm surprised you'd even dip your toe in that direction. I think the part of your video where you talked about queue times and how long it takes when you're on the leaderboard is why most people who hit legend don't have the best winning percentages. I want to play all my games every day, so sitting in queues doesn't interest me. And once I hit legend I not only take my food off the gas, but I goof off a ton because who cares if it's a 1-4? There's little to no incentive to stay above 3000, and there are easier and quicker battles to be found below it. I usually end up around the 2700-2800 range either messing around with goofy teams or trying new things or even trying to win to get dust and pokemon encounters. I'm currently just over 52% win rate - but it's because of those reasons listed above, not because of an algorithm that keeps people at 50%.
A good part of the ~50% win range, I belive is this "ELO" system it self. In theory "ELO" would get every one att around 50% except the "worst" player and the "best" in the whole game. But I really 100% still belive in an algorithm! Seems like every game now adays has it's own version of it. Casinos the same? Etc! Everything with a processor in work has some kind of algorithm. If they could, why would't they? But I agree, this particular games algorith is slightly off, why make everyone close to 50%? I have played GBL since november 2023 and I have always been at slightly over 50%. I can't say it makes me wanna grind that hard... Seems to not mather at all how long you played? I hoped my "%" would raise over time! Maybe they want people to Stop playing GBL? 😂
If you want to do 2 videos a day, how about one straight/grindy, from 3-4 sets with your "real" team,, and one more fun/speculative with 1-2 sets of a different team? I always like when creators repeat teams - there's a lot of scenarios that to me just aren't obvious, and as the meta shifts, new teams/scenarios come up. Whatever you decide, wishing you all the best! Thanks for all the content
Thanks for honesty Dan, you could easily just say that you did hit Legend off recording. Really appreciated! I think the algorithm is hurting you - the RUclips algorithm, because it puts all that pressure on you to create so many teams. I am former Magic player and pro players usually pick the most meta, most played deck and then outplay everyone else. You could also go with Lickitung + Annihilape + Gligar, or pick another PvPoke most productive teams and then go hardcore on matchups and scenarios. But in the end you know yourself that because of standard distribution out of 17 seasons one of them will be terrible for you.
A new PoKe AK is born, congrats, what bothers me is that an analyst doesn’t understand an elo system. As soon as you find your current „true“ elo range, the winrate HAS TO BECOME about 50%, that’s how elo works, if you get better, your winrate goes up for a short period of time, until you reach your new „true“ elo. And as I said in another video, I think less people are playing right now, I don’t believe everybody just got stronger.
When you battle in a raid the game automatically selects pokemon of your to counter the moves of the raid pokemon and when you battle a grunt the game automatically selects pokemon for you to battle that counters the grunts moves, so why would it all of the sudden change for GBL?
The game hasn't selected your opponent yet while you are picking your team for obvious timing reasons (why lock an opponent while you decide what team to use? It is a horrible UX).
31:49 THIS! I don’t expect legends to throw but I would absolutely start throwing to help others reach it especially after 3 months of grinding and pouring so much time in reaching that goal
I think for most people who have played for >5 seasons they'd agree its primarily better competition overall. Move timing and counting is easy enough to learn and the majority have done so. That by itself used to get you to legend easy but that's the new bare minimum for veteran (at least for the the first 2/3 or so of the season). It is also likely that worse players have been more likely to leave further increasing the net talent remaining. I think some of this may have accounted for (or at least I perceived there to be) the massive spike in the more toxic RPS teams this season: it could've been just an odd coincidence for me but I've encountered way more basti and wiggles teams season (though this also seemed to be reflected in their increased presence in regionals as well). Of course as overall skill goes up the game inherently will become more RPS and win% trend towards 50%. This has also made it more difficult to stray from the meta and you encounter far less variety. As you mentioned, once you've hit legend several times the incentive isn't that massive to continue to do so. Would be great to see more people caring less about rank and re-introducing more fun/variety into the GBL. More than buffs/nerfs or new mons my biggest wish would be to incorporate a "pvpoke rank + %usage" coefficient to teams that adjust your ELO gains/losses to better reward and/or deal less harm to people that stray further from the meta.
Love the content Dan, please keep posting! I never comment on basically anything on RUclips, but wanted to share my thoughts real quick: This game is based on luck, the pokemon people choose, and predicting the meta as to gain an advantage in team building. People always talk about RPS when it comes to the thing, which speaks directly to 50/50 win %'s. Tie in moves that are luck-based (Scald, de-buffing moves in general), and baiting to win games, there's a LOT pushing players to winning as much as they're losing. There is No algorithm to make things harder on the player. Players may see other teams posted online, copy them, and then players wonder why they're seeing so much of a pokemon too - That's not the algorithm trying to keep players at 50%. Also, switching teams constantly doesn't help either (Personal opinion), as from my experience, staying consistent with a team helps with keeping win leads/losses closer to even, whereas if I switch my lead after a couple losses, I run into a team lead where I would have won had I just kept my prior lead. Just some thoughts!
Got up to the high 2800s but was hovering around 2800 for most of the latter part of the season. I agree with you - everyone is just really good now! Always appreciate your videos.
I actually would love to see your process on getting to know a team, because as you've said before just copying a team does not help, but when you explain streanght weaknes and how to play on different situations, which helps so much someone learning and with limited resources to build and try teams
tbh you helped me reach veteran for the first time ever playing since day one the last time I played PVP was the season of Interlude and the most recent world of wonders and I hope to reach legend because I finally built the mons so I have the arsenal now I learned all the tips and watched your videos so keep doing what you're doing you're the only person who knows what best for you
Something else for people to consider is that although this is a PvP game, it is not a fighter or a shooter pvp game. What I mean by that is in the latter, even if there are unfavorable matchups or disadvantaged builds, that superior play can still get you wins. Meanwhile in GBL the number of times you can 'outplay' using baits and get wins vs just hard losing or hard winning is minimal by comparison. I think that's why a lot of people want to see some kind of system overhaul, because then it can let knowledge and ability play a more substantial outcome. My support for this is you can just tell someone a comp to run and they see (sometimes huge) ELO gains. Meanwhile, just try playing any fighting game that Justin Wong does, and see how that turns out even if you use the same character(s). The solution I propose is to do like the VGC and GBL in person tournaments do. You and your opponent commit to a team of 6 that both sides can see, you and your opponent look at the other's 6 then set your team of 3 (within a time frame, I say 30 seconds with a ready timer to start sooner included). That way it's your choice what you use, your ability to anticipate your opponent's team, and whether you have good/bad match ups, it's your fault/reward. I feel it would solve a lot of the issues regarding metas, algorithm, and team building. This would make it so we don't have to overhaul the entire PvP system, but improve the existing one.
Dan, when you enter into a game there are two participants. One will win, and one will lose. This is a 50% win rate. Therefore (excluding the very small % of ties), the overall win rate of everyone will converge on 50% as this is the underlying chance of winning. The more you play the more your results will trend towards a 50% win rate. It's called the law of large numbers. Please don't tout statistics regarding distributions and then decide to ignore them regarding probabilities as it relates to sample sizes so that it can fit your narrative lol The system doesn't artificially force you to 50%. It is, once again, statistics.
oh - and by being a content creator - you're making it incredibly hard on yourself by switching teams every day or every couple of days - that's a whole different kind of talent to do that and consistently win. So you should be proud of how well you do regardless of hitting legend.
During your algorithm portion, you say that it's not worth it for them to keep you at a 50% win rate, because it keeps you inside playing more GBL, and not outside playing the game, which is what they want for data collection. But I believe that to be wrong. People who PVP in a game with an overworld and exploration often only do PVP. Personally, I play Runescape and POGO, and PVP is 95% of how I spend my time in those games. So it IS worth it for Niantic to keep my wins down, because if I am able to hit my goals in PVP, then that means I have every Pokemon I need; I have no reason to play POGO outside of my home and go spin stops and stuff. But if I believe that I'm good enough; my fast move timing is good, my catches are calculated... But I'm still not hitting my goal, I'm left to believe it's because I don't have the Pokemon, which incentives me to go out and play. I'm not pulling my phone out at the airport to play POGO so I can hopefully get a shiny or work on my badges. No. I'm pulling my phone out at the airport, because I know that I need hella Lickitung candies, that I still need a better IV Mankey, because I'm hoping for a shadow raid I can use in GBL
Same. I had probably 50-60 games where I was 100% winning but my game froze or I lagged out and it gave me a loss. I would bet a lot of money Niantic has a deal with Apple.
I personally think anyone can hit legend. Ofc it’s hard, it’s always been tough but the same legend players every season manage to do it. All we can hope for is to not lag 😭
I only played about 60 sets all season so not even one a day. On the plus side I won 64% of those games finishing on an elo of 2533. I didn't climb high enough to reach the point where I only won 50% of games. I did suffer the android phone problems that you describe but wasn't stressed by it as I was playing in such a relaxed manner. I am not suggesting it would work for everyone but it might help those who are feeling burnt out and are thinking of giving up the game all together.
I didn't hit legend this season but I'm fine with it. I just play for stardust and elite TMs. I hit legend 9 out of the 11 seasons. I do agree with u this past season was awful with lag. I know Niantic won't fix their game so I accepted it.
I honestly have to stretch my imagination to get a grasp on why people are upset with Dan being upset. I’m gonna just tell myself it’s the 2024 victim mentality that has been eating away at our social capacity like mold lol.. my top favorites are still Dan, Pokedaxi, and Bt… I appreciate Dans analytical approach and video style.
I messed up, I went 10-0 to start so now I’ve been algorithm’d and got hard countered ever since, now sitting at 15-11 it’s insane how stupid the “balancing” in PvP is, no wonder people are unfortunately giving up on the game :(
Oh dude I loved facing the magnezone tropius wiggly line that was everywhere. I was using whis Skarm and tentacruel I went from 2810’s to legend with it facing 17 of them
Honestly people that reach legend don’t care about legend after they get it. They have more fun gate keeping people to legend. The pokemon go community isn’t so sunshine and rainbows as people think lol I reached legend this season. But I was at 2989 elo, needed 11 points. No legend tossed me a bone. Went 3-2 and got 9 points only. THEN 2998 elo and NOT A SINGLE LEGEND THREW A MATCH when I’m 2 points away. Made it to 3043 elo but dam.. from 11 points to 2 points not a single person has a kind heart to lose one match for someone that close ?
Are you the only one who is almost legend at any point of time? Is losing fun? Are legends supossed to give out wins to everyone who's almost there? If not then to whom? Losing in a game that rewards winning isn't fun. No one owes you a win just because they already hit legend. If someone does, be thankful. If they don't, accept it and do not complain.
@@tanujchaudhuri799 actually you need to learn how to read. You tried to sound all smart but it went the opposite way 😭 at what point did I say they owe me a win ? No legend owes anyone a win. Doesn’t change the fact they like to gate keep more than actually be legend. And yes everyone is allowed to complain. I wrote my experiences of what happens usually around the 2950+ elo range.
This was my 2nd season of GBL. As soon as I hit level 20 it was like plateauing. I managed to get to 1900, but I couldn't get to ace. To be fair, I didn't play every set every day and only managed 200 wins. I do think a huge part of it is my lack of knowledge in typings. I'm trying to absorb as much info as I can, as often as I can. I appreciate what you do on the channel and I look forward to your uploads. Maybe I'll submit some battles so you can get me headed un the right direction!
An idea I’ve had too is that there’s a hidden Elo system kind of how like in cod you have the Elo you gain after a game and then where the game ‘thinks’ you should be at which directly impacts the amount of Elo you get per game. Win more against good players = more Elo, lose against bad players or lose multiple games = more Elo lost and more wins needed to get back to where you were/ better than you were
13:09 I hit that point halfway through the season 😂 I hit my max elo of 2995 and am so upset I couldn’t get that one last win on the set that got me that high. Those bugs and freezes really made it feel like treading water with a weighted vest on
Hi, about your consern with the 50% win rate: Its standard in ANY Elo system that you average out at 50% if your not in the top 3% or worst 3% of players. I know it seems suspicious, but thats just how the Math works out. Ill try to explain it here as good and as short as I pobbibly can. So imagine you a 2500 Elo player, that has the skills and team of a regular 2500, with a 50% winrate. Now, you go in a 50 game win Streak to hit legend, just purely because of Luck, allways good lead, saveswap and closer. At this point, your Win% is higher than it should be, but so is you Elo. However, your Skill is that of a 2500 Elo player. Lets continue and say you loose the next 50 battles in a row. What happend now? Your back at 2500 Elo. And you won 50 Battles, but also lost 50. These even out, and your back at your 50% winrate. There is NO deep secret with secret game code that tryed to keep you at 50%, its just how the game works/how any Elo system works. Hope this explains it reasonably well.
IF you still have doubts, look at another game that uses Elo as your Metric of meaasuring skill, Chess. Any reasonable Chess player has a 50% win rate. Why? Because the Elo matches your Skill. Lets say you have the Skill of a 1200 Elo Chess player - the game will match you against other 1200 rated players. That is an even match and you should have a 50% chanse of winning.If you improve in Chess, you will win some more matches, does your winrate improve now? Eh, not really. There is a Big skill difference between a 1200 you were and the 1500 you are now, but that only took 30 wins. Lets say it took you 3000 matches to get there. But these 30 games pushed you winrate only by 1%, and the longer you stay on that Level without improving, the more it will even out more towards 50%.
I've tried switching teams very often, so let's say I have a good team that wins I still switch it the next set. I couldn't even get passed 2500 elo. Finally I gave up stuck to a team that I could use and just use it all the way yes I got passed 2500, got past 2750 legend is hit and miss for me though
I'm on my 3rd season in a row not hitting legend after making it every season before... I blame nothing but myself.. sure I lose games because of lag and frame drops.. but I am betting an equal amount of my opponents have lost to me for the same reason
Dan, I think your comment on the narrowness of the normal distribution was spot on. I also think the coding is not that hard. Once they have a limited set of teams to look at (i.e online looking for match and acceptably close ELO) they only need to use the same code that picks suggested gym or raid attackers - it already can determine preferred pokemon. Try some season looking at the matches you can get when you go below 49% win rate. How many teams do you repeatably hard counter? 😉
Im gonna still watch your content cuz your better then me lol, i play all my sets everyday for 2yrs, im constantly improving and constantly getting better pvp pokemon an constantly building better teams
So you're saying there is too many good players to the point where being at the top is too stressful. That's completive games sir, that's just how it goes.
Wow. The more I learn about this game, the less sense it makes. I got up to .560 w% this season, but ELO 2050. When I did break 2300 for the first time, my w% was only .517. I finished at 2165, going 666/1300. Yesterday, on the first day of the new season, I went 16-4 in Ultra Premiere, but only 1-4 in Great League because my daughter wanted me to use Slowbro, lol
'' The more I learn about this game, the less sense it makes '' - What do you mean? At the beginning you reach 2050 with a good winrate because the battles from rank 1 till rank 24 are considered to be more easy than when the elosystem starts. Then you reach your limit at 2300 and got matched with opponents who are as strong as you so it was a 50/50 match. And at the end you dropped a little bit. I cant spot anything weird.
Great try on trying to get to Legend, you’ll make it this season 👍🏻 GBL has never worked properly. I love playing it but find it too frustrating at the same time. The new ‘bug’ I had last season was for the app to crash just as the battle started, trying to get back into the app was made impossible by Nerfantic for a good 3 mins (instead of being able to get back into the battle to have a chance of winning it). When I have gotten back into gbl, I’ve lost that battle, never even had a chance to play it. That’s happened to me several times and it 🤬 me off, big time!
I don’t play GL cause the meta is to big, I accept that. That’s why I stick to ML and focus on how to play around certain teams and I stuck to 1 team through out 3 rotations to stick to that one team
This season was so strange. I was 2900 and then unintentionally went down to 2400 in about 5 sets. I then went straight back up to 2900 and then immediately back down to 2400 and then back up to 33xx with leaderboard. I had no close matches and the sets were either 0-5/1-4 or 5-0/4-1. I had a 52% winrate at the end.
I felt that too more than other seasons, the only time I feel like I went 3-2 was when the other player either dc’d, stopped attacking or forfeit while they were ahead
@@PeterZwegat430 yeah, calm down is excellent advice for you to take. Stop exaggerating, stop lying, stop blaming the algorithm, stop sucking at the game. It's not that hard. Or just quit if it is?
i left previous season (16)at veteran at 2404 points when i felt i cannot go on with gbl for the rest of the season with 300 games i did end up at 2410 this season(17) with 1000 games surely i played bad but amount of hard matchups and game issues i had didnt felt that hard on season 16 its literally differed 700 games to keep my self at same el o range and i apply mechanics as much as i can aswell my all time best was 2924
I've been keeping track of my win percentage for the past 3 seasons, and here are my results Adventures Abound: 1228-1192 (50.74%) Timeless travels: 1224-1122 (52.18%) World of Wonders: 865-800 (51.9%)
"an algorithm would go against niantics policy, so it would not be an advanced one", the thing with algorithms is, they are predictable and they have flaws, so you should be able to figure out when you get the easier/harder matches, how about you counter that? when down, use a team that put extra pressure when in good lead, when up, use a team that can handle bad leads/switches, unexpected coverage moves, make a team that is statistically double weak but has coverage moves? Like force the game thinking you are weak to a very specific type, narrow it down, and be prepared for that. But only use that team when you think the algorithm will serve you those 'get back to 50 matchups'..
The problem I had is that I only got tough hard counter losses, or easy hard answer wins. It was either 0-5 or 5-0, and after a while it got boring, so I stopped playing GBL. And if I wasn’t playing GBL then I didn’t really need to build or catch Pokémon, because I wasn't using them. People need a reason to catch Pokémon. At least I did.
Dan, you’re a smart guy. If you think there is a matchmaking system that tries to keep you at 50ish percent, but you don’t think the system purposefully matches you against hard counters? As that’s a bridge too far. I then want to ask how would the easy to code matchmaking system keep you around 50ish percent then? What would the mechanism be that does that if it isn’t matching you with a hard counter? All it really takes is a hard lost lead in most instances. The matchmaking system sees Dan wants to play and is leading Swampert. Then they see me leading serperior. And boom, we get matched. Is that some Uber complicated coding? And again if so, what is the mechanism for the matching making system keeping you at 50ish percent?
I think the GBL algo also takes into account how many games you have played. Someone Who Isn’t Me.. plays gbl on two accounts, 1 of them has over 10k great league wins, the other only has about 1.5-2k wins. The one with less wins finds opponents with the same elo but far less skilled.. like they use mons with the wrong moves or only have 1 charged move. The account with over 10k wins is a much harder grind while the the other account cruises to the same elo and higher
Every player that gets to legend does it differently. You started this season saying you weren't going to do all your set then tried to catch up later. I think if you're going to hit legend, you have to do all your sets every day and that might be what works best for you. The game has bugs and other factors that impact the experience, but I'm sure you would have gotten further if you could also include the sets you didn't play this season.
I really enjoyed this video. I've always enjoyed your candid view the meta and GBL. This season you seem be having fun and it showed. If ninact fixed the ELO system, more people would make legend, AND the leader board would work better. It would be nice to see best of the best compete daily. Thank you for all your hard work. Finnally, regarding gate keeping. If manners maketh the man, Courtesy is the mark of a gentleman.
Got legend last day, multiple legend before. My two hardest problems were #1 finding a team that works for me and just run with, and #2 goddamn playing on an Android Phone have been absolutely horrible this season. I cant count the amount of times I lost a battle due to laging not 1turn but 2.. A complete joke of a game tbh
EVERYONE had freezes, frame drops, stutters etc. iOS or Android, fast wifi or slow, didn't make a difference. Saw it in every content creators videos, and experienced it firsthand. And for every time you're hard countered, someone is gaining. Do you have any idea of the logistics of that type of coding? Because if your opponent gained, then at some point he has to lose and someone has to gain etc etc. It's madness. If you play people at your skill level on a consistent basis, you'll end up in the 50%-ish range every time.
dan you’re main problem is switching your teams too much to make content. I understand you have a fear of your channel not growing, but at the end of the day, you have to find a balance with your own sanity, your own goals in the game, and your goals with your channel. I couldn’t imagine trying to play gbl and switching my team all the time, especially if it’s working well, just to pump out new content. Seems like a double edged sword. It’s nice to have more content, but if the team tanks, then you just tanked your elo, you have no decent content to show, and then you’re in a bad mood because your elo isn’t working out that well. You got this man. The legend pose was really lame last season anyway. Haven’t really had a good one since lisandre anyway.
I think utube made the player base really good at pvp and it makes it 100 times harder to win with the algorithm, i wish they would do a bring 6 pick 3 format, it would get crazy
First time expert this season, long time ace veteran, you are by far my favorite gbl RUclipsr, do you think crappy cup rotation impacted your legend push this season?
You really think the meta is more limited now than it was during previous seasons? Like the medi/noctowl/lanturn/trev season? I actually think it’s opened up a bit since 4 seasons ago.
The argument that the algorithm tries to keep you at 50% win rate is hilarious, the ELO system already takes care of that by increasing your ELO when you win which results in you playing against better players until you start losing more --> you start to round at about 50% win rate. This is always skewed of course in the beginning of the season. I don't see any reason for Niantic to implement something like this in addition to the ELO system. As you explained initially, all of it can be explained by statistics, probability, normal distribution etc.
I liked the points you brought up about not hitting Legend. I also wonder if the changing demographic of players is another factor to consider. With all the bugs in the game and the backlash Niantic gets from the choices they make, I wonder if the less skilled "casual" players are the ones leaving the game. Also, I would assume that POGO players have learned many critical skills from your videos (and those of other RUclipsrs as well) and have greatly improved their gameplay. I know that the selection of PVP battles that are available can hinder my performance *cough-catchcup-cough 😂(but I'm also not a very good battler😂)
As a long time viewer and supporter I just want to say everyone deals with the game lags and freezes including Legends! So that’s not acceptable! Buttttt I do want to say looking from the viewer side, I think the largest impact was the loss of interest in the middle of the season. There were a few weeks where you were not completing your sets because you lost interest in the game. Even admitted that this was the first time you had missed sets since the start of GBL. Just my opinion. Good luck with next season!
@@MegaHallo9 thats actually a fair point as I have way to know for sure. I will say this almost every person has legend attire on their avatar at said tournaments and play incredibly well. I am just able to over come things as I’m not triple hard counter when it’s random in person match ups.
@@anthonyiscoolxx if you do a little quick math the odds of getting triple hard countered in GBL should be very slim as well. It’s similar to hitting the pick 3 number straight.
For what it’s worth, coding a hard counter match making wouldn’t be that difficult. Especially if they only focused on leads which can determine matchups in a lot of cases. I don’t believe in the “Algo”, but it wouldn’t be that hard to implement
This is interesting! @DanOttawaPOGO You should test this out! Must be possible to make a team with a "trick lead" of some sort to test this theory out? 😅
They have already done it by giving you a recommended team when you join a raid, and that team is different depending on what charged attack the raid pokemon has.
I wouldn’t classify myself as an elite legend battler, but I was able to maintain a 57.5% win rate last season playing just over 900 battles. I try to minimize my sets to be as efficient as possible since I prefer going out and catching/playing events with friends. I usually stick to meta cores/teams that work with Pokémon I’m familiar with using or watching. Maybe try to reduce your pool of Pokémon once you hit expert to make a legend push, and then you can come back and create content with new Pokémon after hitting legend in future seasons.
I had a nearly identical experience trying to grind for legend in the last couple days of the season. Got up in the 2900s and got completely rps’d/hard countered for 15 straight games and ruined my chances
I think that there is an algorithm, and I think that people make it way too complicated. I think that it only looks at the lead matchup and that's it. It doesn't look at entire teams or anything, just the lead.
Two things: 1)You are right about Niantic not caring enough about gbl to actually code up a matchmaking system. This is why they use the built- in one from Unity. I don’t believe in the PokeAk variant of the algorithm theory. That said it is trivial to notice a change in the distribution of Pokemon you see when you switch teams. There is an algorithm, it does introduce some artificial difficulty, and it’s not an excuse for not climbing. 2) you have nothing to prove Dan, you’re an amazing battler and a first season of mostly focusing on your channel doesn’t really mean much. I can only say I really enjoy your content and I just hope that the state of gbl doesn’t kill your joy for the game.
I was at 53% last season and 56% season before but still haven’t hit expert. Havent made about 2300. But I also only do maybe 7-10 matches a day. Do you need to do every set to hit higher ranks?
So many try to talk crap just for telling the truth about the algorithm. It’s for sure real and in my opinion the system they got is rigged and flawed. Not to mention all the bugs they had last season, so many of them.
I hit Legend two of the last three seasons, including last season where I peaked at 3148. The "tricks of the trade" are all out there in the open -- learn good move timing, know your counts, manage your energy, build good teams, get a little lucky. There's no secret inner circle of Legends hoarding all the knowledge.
Started playing in April and joined gbl once I got my first trio of pvp statted pokemon that game press said was ok. Had no synergy at all but i didn’t know better and I pushed through the first 15 ranks with my umbreon, wiggly, machamp team. Then along comes my first “cup” which banned wiggly and umbreon so I had to adapt. Luckily by that point I had found a annihilape and charizard and I had built up enough dust to spec them up. Still not a great team but it got me through to 19, but having that anihilape showed me what I was missing. I hit 20 just before catch cup started and as placed at 1590 with a 49% win ratio but that’s when things really turned around. My new prime/umb/wigg team was romping through catch cup and I climbed to 1950 before it was over with 4-5 wins happening more often than not. When the final opened happened the quality of play seemed significantly worse allowing me to keep pushing to a final standing of 2205 and a win percentage of well over 50%. There was no “algorithm” that I could detect.
NGL I feel like there could be an algorithm, I kept trying teams with meta mons the whole time I played, every almost every match I’d get lead countered or triple countered. My BEST team of the season was using Crustle of all things cause no one had good answers to it
Clarification post for those who need it:
Reasons I did not hit legend that were my fault
- did not count, fast move optimize or attempt to become a better battler;
- focused more on my channel requiring me to change teams every 2 sets instead of running with one team
- couldn't figure out the meta and find that 24-4 team I normally do
- played slightly under my normal win percentage
- competition is just getting better while I have plateaued
Not my fault: 25 games lost due to game bugs costing me 4-1 & 5-0 where ELO pushes are made
Algorithm: likely an algorithm to hold people around 50% but those better battlers can beat it for a 55 and above win percentage
Do people really think Niantic cares enough about GBL to invest the time and money to write a complicated algorithm that they would have to update every season to keep people's win rates around 50%? I think it's more likely because great league becomes more RPS each season.
I don't want to side with Poke AK, but for me, I noticed that the glitches happened more often at the decisive moment of the battle, or when I am on a losing streak. And yes, the common recurrence of hard counter (i.e. Venusaur when I had Swampert, Ampharos when I had water types, Talonflame when I had Tsareena, Charmers when I had Giratina/Goodra).
Also it is proven that some people have hacks some that they can read you team before the battle even started.
@@danielw00ds Yep. Everything is fine unless my team hard counters someone, then the glitches show up. So I cant even take advantage of the good match ups.
I hit my all time highest elo, ive played for like 1.5 years... I managed to hit 2450? ish elo while turn counting as much as I knew how and all that, I watch videos of legends who play around the same as I do.. so it just doesnt make sense, I get the same luck using random stuff like raichu as I do using meta stuff like annhialape and skarmory
@@alfiesmullet1311 there has to be some sort of algorithm. I will run the same team for two sets see a lot of common opponents, switch to a new team for a set of two to counter them, get a lot of new hard counter opponents, then switch back to the original team only to see the original common opponents again. Not saying it's specifically targeted to keep you from climbing, and the averages workout better if I stick to the same team unless I'm just losing a ridiculous amount of battles, but there has to be some sort of algorithm that decides who you're going to face.
This was the first season I hit legend. And not just that, but I hit 3400 something and peaked at #142 of the leaderboard. And 90% of the contribution to that came from your videos. I watched a lot of your old series, too. I got better at balanced team building. I started to count. Learn movesets, energy management and ran a lot of simulations on pvpoke to get a feeling for pokemon matchups and the damage dealt in these matchups. I am really thankful for that. I am and will continue to be a big fan of yours. In my perception you always had the only real gbl channel that actually teaches you how to become better at the game. But in the last months I noticed that you get more and more frustrated with the game. It is ok if you let that out, who a I to even judge that. But you entertaining the whole algorithm topic as if a close to 50% win ratio for the big part of the player base isn't simply a part of ANY ranking based matchmaking system leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth.
If you're temporarily at 60%+ win ratio your rank will skyrocket. You will face harder opponents. You will loose more and your win ratio will fall closer to fifty. If you continue to win your rank will continue to rise. Until youre in the rank with people as good as you. What will lead to a 50%ish win ratio again. Or until you on the top top of the leaderboard. It's the same system with every ranking based match making of zero sum games. I play chess too and I never heard anyone in the chess community argue that there is an algorithm that pairs them with people who tend to play openings that counter theirs. They get paired with people at their Elo level in the long run. Just as here you don't get paired by teams but by your gbl ranking (which is not exactly an Elo system mathematically speaking, but that is a different story). You always correctly talked about the standard distribution when it comes to team paring, but why don't you translate it to the paring by ranking?
Anyways, thank you for your videos Dan. I hope you will find all the fun in the game and the videos that brought you to doing it to begin with.
As someone who has hit legend every season since season 5, I definitely believe that the skill of the average player has increased substantially. It is now way less common to see people in the 2400s throw charge moves on poor timing, and there is honestly little difference in skill between veteran players and legend players.
I also went through a phase of thinking that I was washed and wasn’t good at the game anymore. So I buckled down and really started focusing on improving my skills even further. After that, I was able to hit legend again just like before.
The reason I struggled was because I got lazy and stopped improving my gameplay while everyone else just got better as each season passed. If you want to stay on top, you have to keep improving, even if you think your skill level is way above everyone else’s. That goes for most games, and as obvious as that may seem, I didn’t realize it until recently.
I recently ran a team I saw of Sableye, S-Aslash and S-Venusaur. After seeing almost no fire types with my previous team, I ran into 3 teams with Skeledirge in the back and 1 with Talonflame. If that doesn’t tell you there is an algorithm then I don’t know what else will. It’s pretty clear you see certain Pokemon based on your team comp.
Algorithm aside, an elo system is fundamentally broken when many of the participants intentionally lose for the purpose of earning greater rewards. There are just so many players out there who, once they reach level 20, just tank their rating as low as possible in order to optimize rewards especially for things like go battle weekend or 4x dust weeks. Very often you end up playing against significantly higher rated opponents who are essentially just smurfing.
This. I only wanted to get to Expert season 17 for the first time, but kept running into those people.
I personally lose my first 300-500 battles every season. That way I am at about 51 percent win rate when I make my legend push
lmaaaaaaoooooo youre just actually not skilled
@@WichoMalanga no my guy we are skilled to the point we manipulate the algo to our benefit. Once you quit denying its existence, you can begin to understand it, which obviously leads to manipulation for our gain.
@@EddieJiuJitsu has this worked? What a crappy way to beat the algo, but if thats the best/only loophole, I want to reach Legend somehow
Dan, I really recommend taking time to figure out what you want for your channel. Do you primarily want to make money? If so, I think running 13+ teams a week, pushing the idea that Niantic is countering your team comp to keep you near 50% are going to be really effective. I anticipate that the outcome of your channel would just be making GBL an energy drain for the people who watch your channel (because they’ll focus on how they’re being hard countered instead of how they can teambuild and play better), but you CAN do that.
If you primarily want your channel to educate people about GBL and help them have fun with it, then stop switching your team so much, play when you can pay better attention to what’s happening, and be more intentional about teambuilding. Stop playing metas you really don’t like. My sense is that you’ve gotten really off track from this ideal of educating people and helping them have fun. When one of your last teams of the season had a Clodsire on it, and you’ve been talking all season about your frustration with Skarmory + Whiscash cores and how Gligar is everywhere, it tells me you’re at the “throwing things at the wall” stage rather than really analyzing your opponent’s teams and seeing what’s effective.
Basically, your channel can make money by feeding people’s rage and frustration, or it can be an educational resource to help them enjoy the game (and you’ll potentially make somewhat less money from it). The former is a totally legitimate choice if you need the money, I’d just be sure you’re making that choice intentionally if you do.
We can’t prove whether a matchmaking algorithm based on team comp exists or not (Niantic has specifically said they don’t check your team for matchmaking, but I can’t force anyone to believe them). But the question is, what are the actual consequences of believing or not believing in that kind of algorithm? In my mind, all believing in it does (whether it exists or not) is lead you to believe that you don’t have control over whether you win or lose, leading you to give up on adapting your team or play patterns. I don’t believe in it, and I put a lot of thought into the teams I make. They usually work out pretty well. If I find that they’re consistently struggling due to team comp (say, for at least two days worth of battles), I’ll change it to a new team. I track every opponent’s team that I face when I’m trying to do well in a certain meta, so that when I DO change my team, I can predict how my new team will do against all of the things I’ve seen (not just the past two sets), and I don’t just think about the lead match-up. This way, I’m more prepared for the different team comps I might face, and I have at least somewhat of a plan for how to play out bad match-ups. I’m not the best player out there (I’ve never played in a tournament, for example), but I’m better than most, and I did get on the leaderboard the last two seasons.
Your evidence for the algorithm (the best players are only at ~55% when they should be at ~65%) fundamentally misunderstands how the Elo system works. The best players stay at around 55% (or less) because all of their opponents are ALSO among the best players. That’s why long queue times happen. Some of those great players will also tank intentionally to reduce queue times, getting the win rate back to that 50-55%. This system IS set up to make you win 50% of the time, but it doesn’t do so by checking team comps. It does so by pitting you against opponents who are at a similar skill level to you, both in terms of gameplay and in terms of reading and team building for the meta.
The really good players do usually stick with one team, but they thought that team out REALLY thoroughly ahead of time. When I do that (make my own team that plays well against the meta I expect to see), I usually do really well. In metas where I don’t plan like that or can’t find a team, I usually do less well. If I don’t enjoy the meta, I just don’t play it. I don’t think I’ve played open GL since early that season for exactly that reason; I couldn’t find a team I liked, and I wasn’t enjoying it.
Sorry this is so long; I hope some of it is helpful! Good luck in finding what you want from the channel and building it towards that, and all the best to you and your family.
Beyond this, you need to balance your channel with life. You have a family and full time job. You don't need to be going to this hard in a physical activity mobile game when there are far more fulfilling avenues around you. You can't compete with people who make this game their full time job.
You not hitting legend is no surprise when earlier this season you made a video called "The beginning of the end". Perhaps it's time to pivot the direction of your channel. Maybe give yourself different challenges, like winning with silly user submitted teams, and then deep diving with those said teams. Shout casting isn't it. Dozens of other people do it already.
Anyone got a TLDR version of this comment?
@@doritofan1002 If it were 5 separate comments, would you read it? These are all valid points.
Good write up.
What Meta do you normally play? I started in ultra, then found it costly and never could find a team. So do mostly great now. I do have a master team that are all useful in pvp and pve, that's the only way I'll invest in master is dual use.
@@GenericMidwesterner honestly, I usually play the “limited” meta (so I’m playing Ultra Premier right now). When all three metas are available I typically play Ultra League (although I do typically play Great League when there are new meta shifts; I’m more talking about this season and the second half of last season where everything’s stayed the same), but because I had already hit Legend, I just didn’t play the last week of last season.
I don’t necessarily think it tries to keep you at 50 perfectly but I definitely think it tries to create even matchups by matching based on the Pokémon types and moves in your team and you end up getting hard countered because it does a really bad job of balancing and so it actually ends up hard countering you a lot. This is especially true if you use random teams. You will see the Pokémon that breaks your core almost immediately. And if you change your team you will see completely different teams
This can easily be tested, I don't know what Dan is smoking...
Dan, I think through the video you actually disproved your idea of an algorithm to keep you at 50%. The problem with assuming a normal distribution is that it doesn't take into account other factors outside of the randomness in the "get one from close Elo" match-making algorithm. And you mentioned those other factors: Bugs on the game, unreliable connection, how often you change teams, the skill of other players, the meta. Those variables are not part of the standard distribution and still affect your win percentage.
The last two are also related: Now that players are more skilled (and more informed), you are also harder punished for going off meta or for having small flaws in team composition. Maybe part of the reason why you had trouble finding the anti-meta sweet spot. This is also important with things like unstable connection: If the players are more skilled, you get harder punished for playing during your commute, on the bus, with a connection that sometimes causes a few seconds lag (I noticed this, by the way, I can no longer just casually play outside or I lose more than normal).
When you combine all of those factors, it makes sense that you felt hard-countered more often. It is just a combination of: 1) The meta is pretty much settled, 2) the meta is also so wide that there aren't anti-meta cores that aren't easy to break, 3) you get harder punished for bugs or unstable connection, 4) the opposing players are better informed, and 5) you couldn't settle for a team.
That's a really good summation of the issues he's talked about. I'm guessing it's a little harder to see it that way in total in the moment though.
Some great points Dan. Obviously an 'algorithm' is a difficult subject in this community, but I definitely scratched my head when I hadn't seen a whimsicott the whole season and then saw it 3 times in 1 set when I ran the lanturn double dragon team, once I changed my team I never saw it again the rest of the season.
The algorithm only hurts you. Make sure you never give the algorithm credit when you're winning.
That's the problem with you people. You crave your failures, and explain them away as someone else's fault, ALWAYS.
Get better, period.
You seem to have that Stockholm Syndrome.
@Bluebloods7 there are many times where I've hard countered people after a bad set and I give the algorithm credit for helping me. It goes both ways and I think the majority of people realize that. It's not an excuse. It's just part of what happens in GBL
@@Bluebloods7I’ve never seen anyone claim the algorithm only hurts them and never helps them.
Exactly
It’s only gonna get harder Dan. There’s nothing to “wait and see” about next season. Everyone is good now. You yourself admitted you aren’t doing enough, yet you expect to get by because “you never had to (count, catch, etc) before and always got away with it.”
I like you Dan, but let’s be real for second. Everybody was affected by the same factors you mentioned, yet a ton of people hit legend, including a lot of first-time legends during catch cup. The amount of people helping/coaching in discord calls nowadays is insane. Counting is importing, energy management is important, team reading is important, and EVERYBODY is learning it one way or another. The community is full of super helpful people willing to help and teach others, it’s incredible.
I’m excited for the direction of the channel. If I can offer some constructive feedback: I’d like your analysis to be a little more focused. Maybe have some bullet points or something prepared so there’s less rambling. I think you have good topics but you tend to ramble or go off on tangents a lot. Makes watching hard sometimes. I don’t mind sitting through long videos, but it’s important to stay in track. Also, if you’re going to put “analyzing” in the video title then it would be helpful to use actual numbers of some sort of visuals to help the actual analysis. A talking head looking at pvpoke rankings isn’t very analytical. It’d be cool to see how move updates change specific matchups using the battle simulator or something. Idk just throwing that out there. See you next season!
Omg is this HugoPlays? AKA the LA 🐐
@@jessicamendoza9407 that’s me but you’re being way too kind haha hi!
Yoo hugo
Spooderman 95 here😂
@@Lucky69K yo what's up Spooderman! Fancy seeing you around here haha
This is the first time I never finished playing a season. I stopped playing gbl for the last month of the season. Started when I got 20 points from expert and then all of a sudden drop to 2500. Several times of the game lag where you have no idea how many fast moves the opponent used to causing you not to hit the bubbles for excellent on cmp causing the opponent to barely survive and then take me out.
Oh I've quit on the season several times now. It's literally pointless. If I have to time to kill, I play it. That's it. There is no goal or satisfaction in doing anymore.
You say they don't care enough about GBL to do that code, but you have to distinguish the project managers and business leads from the engineers and coders. The project teams who manage the GBL schedule and it's appeal clearly don't care about GBL, but I would say the engineers and coders will care about anything they do massively and if one of them develops a code capable of seeing who's online, reading your Elo and reading your teams, they'll make sure everyone in that business knows about it and it's used, not because it's good for GBL, but because it's a personal and career achievement that they've developed this awesome code. We've seen the discord bot capable of reading teams a couple of months ago so clearly there's got to be something in the game that allowed it to do that 🤷
As someone who’s been to legend every season, next season just frustrates me as the pose is lack luster and the lag still there.
I’ll probably be taking a break not only for PvP but to rest and do other things
Game issues impact all players (including legend players) + the algorithm has always existed i.e. during previous seasons where you hit legend
FWIW I had the opposite experience of you in hitting Legend this season for the first time in a while
That's why I think Dan just wants to have an iphone.
No the algo only exists when it’s convenient for it to exist. Like when you’re play quality starts slipping
No, the algorithm exists because algorithms are base parts of any game development. If you truly believe this game and GBL aren't built around algorithms then you are A) very dense and B) need to look up how games are coded and developed. The GBL matchmaking algorithm without a doubt exists, but becomes more noticeable when you are losing and not progressing ranks. @anthonyiscoolxx
I uninstalled the game just the other day and this is a big part of why I did. They just don't care and after several seasons of seeing bugs go unfixed, good features and bonuses be taken away I was done with it. They take away things like classic leagues because you know it's easy to xl's but then after the next while make it harder to get xl's. Or say we want people to raid in person but then location lock certain raids. It was great game concept that is very poorly managed.
I redownloaded this game from being a day 1 player around go fest 2023 I didn’t even know there was a pvp. I then started playing it and really liked it and started collecting PVP IV Pokémon. I got ace first time then veteran a couple times. This season I hit expert & legend for the first time. I definitely accredit being able to from watching your channel and learning things like move timing etc, building teams etc. I found an older video of yours of ABB teams and i really enjoyed the way ABB teams worked and decided to go with it this season. I used lanturn, ninetails(charm), Wiggly to hit legend. I think it’s probably as you said why you didn’t hit it the 4-1s 5-0s add up. I went on a super lucky run of those the last few days of the season boosted me up from the 2800s.
Anyways thanks for all the help and good luck on your run and channel this season Dan.
I really like how you analyze your own gameplay to find out what errors you made along the way and it made me think of a huge mistake that I think I'm doing that got me stranded at Veteran this season. I would find a team that's doing really well and go on a pretty good win streak then I hit a wall where I get hard countered every single game and go on a losing streak and I would conclude that I have to change my team because it now sucks at this ELO because everything's hard countering me, but then I go with another content creator's team that I'm not that familiar with and drop even more.
I think I just need to be proficient with a team that works for me and accept that there will be times that the game will hard counter me when I'm doing well, but that I just have to ride that out and focus on mastering the team instead. I really like how you go into the analysis behind everything and make people think and not just say "this team will dominate for you." I really appreciate your content. Keep doing what you're doing. To me, you're a legend no matter what your ELO says. Thanks again.
Exactly this. Some days are net positives, others are net negatives, but sticking with the same team allowed me to climb to veteran for the first time. Then I had a couple bad days, and changed my team several times. Fell all the way back down to 2025 by the end of the season. Consistency and learning your team in all matchup situations is key
One fascinating thing I found in master league was that you’ll find people in the 2800s with basically zero game mechanic skills up there strictly because they’re running the zygard-solgaleo core. Faced multiple people who behaved like rocket leaders (shielded first two moves and wouldn’t switch out)
As a seasoned veteran of GBL who has hit legend every season. I even auto-rekt to legend last season I would say that swapping in master league is usually a guaranteed loss. Unless you have a zacian on your team. You could argue Lando too. Usually if you play out the lead you can then farm down and sweep in ML unlike great league. They’re not at all comparable when ML Pokémon generally can nearly one shot any other mon. Sure the zygardes are overpowered. I am not making mine because it’s trash but I have every other meta mon and would say there’s lots of cores that are more viable or just as viable. Just my thoughts it’s not like great league where you want to catch moves like in great league.
I learned a lot from your channel and got to oppose you in the 2400's this season. It was the highlight of my GBL experience. If you switch formats, I'd like to watch you stick with a team and hear your thoughts as you play live matches. I still have a lot to learn and you do a great job explaining the game mechanics.
GBL just needs more viable PkMn its just too rock, paper, scissors. There is a reason the mainline games have abilities, held-items and double battles for pvp.
Hey man, you were the first youtuber I started watching in last July and I learned a lot. I don't think it is a coincidence or an algorithm or anything. 3 months ago you released a video 'beginning of the end ... and I don't care anymore' and I definitely think that is a massive problem. One of the last videos I saw of your push you just clearly were just burned out. People are getting better and you're still a good player. In your earlier videos you were reading lines and maximizing energy and that is stuff you just don't bother with anymore. Really hope you find your stride again
I think that the fact that you couldn’t find “the team” is deeply tied to the player base getting better and you not counting / focussing on fast move timing etc. Many people copy top player’s teams, but not many hit legend. The difference is in the individual skill of the trainer, so with a top tier battler the team maybe goes 20/5, while with a lesser skilled battler it becomes maybe 16/9.
Legend battler here. Your experience with GBL recently is very similar to mine. IMO, definitely a matchmaking system based on typing. That's the mechanism for keeping you close to 50%. You get some favorable leads, some neutral ones, and some bad ones. Niantic just divides everyone's type matchups into a 3 table calculation. So, that's 33.3% each of good, neutral, and bad. The order isn't linear, so you can get any kind in any order. What you see is random in that respect. And of course, you always remember when the bad ones are consecutive. Utilizing skill and team reading keeps you above 50% in all scenarios. My two cents.
Dan, your team helped me meet legend for the first time. While I really appreciate that but honestly you have really plateaued. I don't play GBL anymore, but there are many times I screamed in my heart when you don't count move, when you throw at bad timing. Counting moves and throwing at good timing is basics now. Others are waiting a turn before throwing to avoid opponent catching your move, or wait a turn before switching to cause opponent throwing at alignment to sneak a move through or to do CPM Sac swap, or throw 2 x 2 turns move before switching out against incinerate users to maximise energy generation during 1 turn switch out etc. You need to do the basics and incorporate more advanced game play because everyone is getting better.
For sure there is a algorithm other them your elo, there is no way you use a common team 50 times row them change your team use a spice pokemon like alakazam for fun and for the first time there is a match against a trainer with a Alakazam
I can't believe you're leaning towards an algorithm! I know you said it's not all the way PokeAK algo - but I'm surprised you'd even dip your toe in that direction. I think the part of your video where you talked about queue times and how long it takes when you're on the leaderboard is why most people who hit legend don't have the best winning percentages. I want to play all my games every day, so sitting in queues doesn't interest me. And once I hit legend I not only take my food off the gas, but I goof off a ton because who cares if it's a 1-4? There's little to no incentive to stay above 3000, and there are easier and quicker battles to be found below it. I usually end up around the 2700-2800 range either messing around with goofy teams or trying new things or even trying to win to get dust and pokemon encounters. I'm currently just over 52% win rate - but it's because of those reasons listed above, not because of an algorithm that keeps people at 50%.
A good part of the ~50% win range, I belive is this "ELO" system it self. In theory "ELO" would get every one att around 50% except the "worst" player and the "best" in the whole game.
But I really 100% still belive in an algorithm!
Seems like every game now adays has it's own version of it. Casinos the same? Etc! Everything with a processor in work has some kind of algorithm. If they could, why would't they?
But I agree, this particular games algorith is slightly off, why make everyone close to 50%? I have played GBL since november 2023 and I have always been at slightly over 50%. I can't say it makes me wanna grind that hard... Seems to not mather at all how long you played? I hoped my "%" would raise over time! Maybe they want people to Stop playing GBL? 😂
Im with you, Dan. I felt like every time i picked a mon in my own team, i was actually picking what i wanted to fight against.
If you want to do 2 videos a day, how about one straight/grindy, from 3-4 sets with your "real" team,, and one more fun/speculative with 1-2 sets of a different team?
I always like when creators repeat teams - there's a lot of scenarios that to me just aren't obvious, and as the meta shifts, new teams/scenarios come up.
Whatever you decide, wishing you all the best! Thanks for all the content
Thanks for honesty Dan, you could easily just say that you did hit Legend off recording. Really appreciated! I think the algorithm is hurting you - the RUclips algorithm, because it puts all that pressure on you to create so many teams. I am former Magic player and pro players usually pick the most meta, most played deck and then outplay everyone else. You could also go with Lickitung + Annihilape + Gligar, or pick another PvPoke most productive teams and then go hardcore on matchups and scenarios. But in the end you know yourself that because of standard distribution out of 17 seasons one of them will be terrible for you.
A new PoKe AK is born, congrats, what bothers me is that an analyst doesn’t understand an elo system. As soon as you find your current „true“ elo range, the winrate HAS TO BECOME about 50%, that’s how elo works, if you get better, your winrate goes up for a short period of time, until you reach your new „true“ elo.
And as I said in another video, I think less people are playing right now, I don’t believe everybody just got stronger.
When you battle in a raid the game automatically selects pokemon of your to counter the moves of the raid pokemon and when you battle a grunt the game automatically selects pokemon for you to battle that counters the grunts moves, so why would it all of the sudden change for GBL?
The game hasn't selected your opponent yet while you are picking your team for obvious timing reasons (why lock an opponent while you decide what team to use? It is a horrible UX).
It does do that for my opponents
@@AgusLearnsPvP don’t understand what your saying?
You dont choose your own raid counters ? I do. I also choose the teams i play against the grunts.
@@ZachBurns-gu9zk yes I choose them over what the game already selects to begin with
You'll always be a Legend Dan! 🌟
31:49 THIS! I don’t expect legends to throw but I would absolutely start throwing to help others reach it especially after 3 months of grinding and pouring so much time in reaching that goal
I think for most people who have played for >5 seasons they'd agree its primarily better competition overall. Move timing and counting is easy enough to learn and the majority have done so. That by itself used to get you to legend easy but that's the new bare minimum for veteran (at least for the the first 2/3 or so of the season). It is also likely that worse players have been more likely to leave further increasing the net talent remaining. I think some of this may have accounted for (or at least I perceived there to be) the massive spike in the more toxic RPS teams this season: it could've been just an odd coincidence for me but I've encountered way more basti and wiggles teams season (though this also seemed to be reflected in their increased presence in regionals as well). Of course as overall skill goes up the game inherently will become more RPS and win% trend towards 50%. This has also made it more difficult to stray from the meta and you encounter far less variety. As you mentioned, once you've hit legend several times the incentive isn't that massive to continue to do so. Would be great to see more people caring less about rank and re-introducing more fun/variety into the GBL. More than buffs/nerfs or new mons my biggest wish would be to incorporate a "pvpoke rank + %usage" coefficient to teams that adjust your ELO gains/losses to better reward and/or deal less harm to people that stray further from the meta.
Love the content Dan, please keep posting! I never comment on basically anything on RUclips, but wanted to share my thoughts real quick: This game is based on luck, the pokemon people choose, and predicting the meta as to gain an advantage in team building. People always talk about RPS when it comes to the thing, which speaks directly to 50/50 win %'s. Tie in moves that are luck-based (Scald, de-buffing moves in general), and baiting to win games, there's a LOT pushing players to winning as much as they're losing. There is No algorithm to make things harder on the player. Players may see other teams posted online, copy them, and then players wonder why they're seeing so much of a pokemon too - That's not the algorithm trying to keep players at 50%. Also, switching teams constantly doesn't help either (Personal opinion), as from my experience, staying consistent with a team helps with keeping win leads/losses closer to even, whereas if I switch my lead after a couple losses, I run into a team lead where I would have won had I just kept my prior lead. Just some thoughts!
Got up to the high 2800s but was hovering around 2800 for most of the latter part of the season. I agree with you - everyone is just really good now!
Always appreciate your videos.
I actually would love to see your process on getting to know a team, because as you've said before just copying a team does not help, but when you explain streanght weaknes and how to play on different situations, which helps so much someone learning and with limited resources to build and try teams
tbh you helped me reach veteran for the first time ever playing since day one
the last time I played PVP was the season of Interlude
and the most recent world of wonders and I hope to reach legend because I finally built the mons so I have the arsenal now I learned all the tips and watched your videos so keep doing what you're doing
you're the only person who knows what best for you
Something else for people to consider is that although this is a PvP game, it is not a fighter or a shooter pvp game. What I mean by that is in the latter, even if there are unfavorable matchups or disadvantaged builds, that superior play can still get you wins. Meanwhile in GBL the number of times you can 'outplay' using baits and get wins vs just hard losing or hard winning is minimal by comparison. I think that's why a lot of people want to see some kind of system overhaul, because then it can let knowledge and ability play a more substantial outcome. My support for this is you can just tell someone a comp to run and they see (sometimes huge) ELO gains. Meanwhile, just try playing any fighting game that Justin Wong does, and see how that turns out even if you use the same character(s).
The solution I propose is to do like the VGC and GBL in person tournaments do. You and your opponent commit to a team of 6 that both sides can see, you and your opponent look at the other's 6 then set your team of 3 (within a time frame, I say 30 seconds with a ready timer to start sooner included). That way it's your choice what you use, your ability to anticipate your opponent's team, and whether you have good/bad match ups, it's your fault/reward. I feel it would solve a lot of the issues regarding metas, algorithm, and team building. This would make it so we don't have to overhaul the entire PvP system, but improve the existing one.
Dan, when you enter into a game there are two participants.
One will win, and one will lose.
This is a 50% win rate.
Therefore (excluding the very small % of ties), the overall win rate of everyone will converge on 50% as this is the underlying chance of winning. The more you play the more your results will trend towards a 50% win rate.
It's called the law of large numbers.
Please don't tout statistics regarding distributions and then decide to ignore them regarding probabilities as it relates to sample sizes so that it can fit your narrative lol
The system doesn't artificially force you to 50%. It is, once again, statistics.
oh - and by being a content creator - you're making it incredibly hard on yourself by switching teams every day or every couple of days - that's a whole different kind of talent to do that and consistently win. So you should be proud of how well you do regardless of hitting legend.
During your algorithm portion, you say that it's not worth it for them to keep you at a 50% win rate, because it keeps you inside playing more GBL, and not outside playing the game, which is what they want for data collection.
But I believe that to be wrong.
People who PVP in a game with an overworld and exploration often only do PVP.
Personally, I play Runescape and POGO, and PVP is 95% of how I spend my time in those games.
So it IS worth it for Niantic to keep my wins down, because if I am able to hit my goals in PVP, then that means I have every Pokemon I need; I have no reason to play POGO outside of my home and go spin stops and stuff.
But if I believe that I'm good enough; my fast move timing is good, my catches are calculated... But I'm still not hitting my goal, I'm left to believe it's because I don't have the Pokemon, which incentives me to go out and play.
I'm not pulling my phone out at the airport to play POGO so I can hopefully get a shiny or work on my badges. No. I'm pulling my phone out at the airport, because I know that I need hella Lickitung candies, that I still need a better IV Mankey, because I'm hoping for a shadow raid I can use in GBL
Making legend last season with Android (lag, etc) was very difficult. If lag isn't fixed this season I'm skipping for my own sanity
Same. I had probably 50-60 games where I was 100% winning but my game froze or I lagged out and it gave me a loss. I would bet a lot of money Niantic has a deal with Apple.
I hit legend for the 1st time and also i agree hardcounters are stupid annoying if you're having issues with hiting legend get an PA
I personally think anyone can hit legend. Ofc it’s hard, it’s always been tough but the same legend players every season manage to do it. All we can hope for is to not lag 😭
I only played about 60 sets all season so not even one a day. On the plus side I won 64% of those games finishing on an elo of 2533. I didn't climb high enough to reach the point where I only won 50% of games. I did suffer the android phone problems that you describe but wasn't stressed by it as I was playing in such a relaxed manner. I am not suggesting it would work for everyone but it might help those who are feeling burnt out and are thinking of giving up the game all together.
I didn't hit legend this season but I'm fine with it. I just play for stardust and elite TMs. I hit legend 9 out of the 11 seasons. I do agree with u this past season was awful with lag. I know Niantic won't fix their game so I accepted it.
I honestly have to stretch my imagination to get a grasp on why people are upset with Dan being upset. I’m gonna just tell myself it’s the 2024 victim mentality that has been eating away at our social capacity like mold lol.. my top favorites are still Dan, Pokedaxi, and Bt… I appreciate Dans analytical approach and video style.
I messed up, I went 10-0 to start so now I’ve been algorithm’d and got hard countered ever since, now sitting at 15-11 it’s insane how stupid the “balancing” in PvP is, no wonder people are unfortunately giving up on the game :(
Oh dude I loved facing the magnezone tropius wiggly line that was everywhere.
I was using whis Skarm and tentacruel I went from 2810’s to legend with it facing 17 of them
Honestly people that reach legend don’t care about legend after they get it. They have more fun gate keeping people to legend. The pokemon go community isn’t so sunshine and rainbows as people think lol I reached legend this season. But I was at 2989 elo, needed 11 points. No legend tossed me a bone. Went 3-2 and got 9 points only. THEN 2998 elo and NOT A SINGLE LEGEND THREW A MATCH when I’m 2 points away. Made it to 3043 elo but dam.. from 11 points to 2 points not a single person has a kind heart to lose one match for someone that close ?
Are you the only one who is almost legend at any point of time?
Is losing fun? Are legends supossed to give out wins to everyone who's almost there? If not then to whom?
Losing in a game that rewards winning isn't fun. No one owes you a win just because they already hit legend. If someone does, be thankful. If they don't, accept it and do not complain.
@@tanujchaudhuri799 actually you need to learn how to read. You tried to sound all smart but it went the opposite way 😭 at what point did I say they owe me a win ? No legend owes anyone a win. Doesn’t change the fact they like to gate keep more than actually be legend. And yes everyone is allowed to complain. I wrote my experiences of what happens usually around the 2950+ elo range.
@@PlayKun I mean youre' not wrong
This was my 2nd season of GBL. As soon as I hit level 20 it was like plateauing. I managed to get to 1900, but I couldn't get to ace. To be fair, I didn't play every set every day and only managed 200 wins. I do think a huge part of it is my lack of knowledge in typings. I'm trying to absorb as much info as I can, as often as I can. I appreciate what you do on the channel and I look forward to your uploads. Maybe I'll submit some battles so you can get me headed un the right direction!
An idea I’ve had too is that there’s a hidden Elo system kind of how like in cod you have the Elo you gain after a game and then where the game ‘thinks’ you should be at which directly impacts the amount of Elo you get per game. Win more against good players = more Elo, lose against bad players or lose multiple games = more Elo lost and more wins needed to get back to where you were/ better than you were
13:09 I hit that point halfway through the season 😂 I hit my max elo of 2995 and am so upset I couldn’t get that one last win on the set that got me that high. Those bugs and freezes really made it feel like treading water with a weighted vest on
Hi, about your consern with the 50% win rate: Its standard in ANY Elo system that you average out at 50% if your not in the top 3% or worst 3% of players.
I know it seems suspicious, but thats just how the Math works out. Ill try to explain it here as good and as short as I pobbibly can.
So imagine you a 2500 Elo player, that has the skills and team of a regular 2500, with a 50% winrate. Now, you go in a 50 game win Streak to hit legend, just purely because of Luck, allways good lead, saveswap and closer. At this point, your Win% is higher than it should be, but so is you Elo. However, your Skill is that of a 2500 Elo player. Lets continue and say you loose the next 50 battles in a row. What happend now? Your back at 2500 Elo. And you won 50 Battles, but also lost 50. These even out, and your back at your 50% winrate. There is NO deep secret with secret game code that tryed to keep you at 50%, its just how the game works/how any Elo system works. Hope this explains it reasonably well.
IF you still have doubts, look at another game that uses Elo as your Metric of meaasuring skill, Chess. Any reasonable Chess player has a 50% win rate. Why? Because the Elo matches your Skill. Lets say you have the Skill of a 1200 Elo Chess player - the game will match you against other 1200 rated players. That is an even match and you should have a 50% chanse of winning.If you improve in Chess, you will win some more matches, does your winrate improve now? Eh, not really. There is a Big skill difference between a 1200 you were and the 1500 you are now, but that only took 30 wins. Lets say it took you 3000 matches to get there. But these 30 games pushed you winrate only by 1%, and the longer you stay on that Level without improving, the more it will even out more towards 50%.
You are a legend. You and my battle score in GBL (2-0 Dan leads). My legend streak is only from S10-S18.
I've tried switching teams very often, so let's say I have a good team that wins I still switch it the next set. I couldn't even get passed 2500 elo. Finally I gave up stuck to a team that I could use and just use it all the way yes I got passed 2500, got past 2750 legend is hit and miss for me though
First time veteran here! I have one team that works for great league and in the limited cups I skipped so as not to ruin my rating
Can you tell us the Team?
I'm on my 3rd season in a row not hitting legend after making it every season before... I blame nothing but myself.. sure I lose games because of lag and frame drops.. but I am betting an equal amount of my opponents have lost to me for the same reason
Dan, I think your comment on the narrowness of the normal distribution was spot on. I also think the coding is not that hard. Once they have a limited set of teams to look at (i.e online looking for match and acceptably close ELO) they only need to use the same code that picks suggested gym or raid attackers - it already can determine preferred pokemon. Try some season looking at the matches you can get when you go below 49% win rate. How many teams do you repeatably hard counter? 😉
G’Day Dan, no worries it’s all good and your content is always good.
Im gonna still watch your content cuz your better then me lol, i play all my sets everyday for 2yrs, im constantly improving and constantly getting better pvp pokemon an constantly building better teams
So you're saying there is too many good players to the point where being at the top is too stressful. That's completive games sir, that's just how it goes.
Wow. The more I learn about this game, the less sense it makes. I got up to .560 w% this season, but ELO 2050.
When I did break 2300 for the first time, my w% was only .517.
I finished at 2165, going 666/1300.
Yesterday, on the first day of the new season, I went 16-4 in Ultra Premiere, but only 1-4 in Great League because my daughter wanted me to use Slowbro, lol
'' The more I learn about this game, the less sense it makes '' - What do you mean? At the beginning you reach 2050 with a good winrate because the battles from rank 1 till rank 24 are considered to be more easy than when the elosystem starts.
Then you reach your limit at 2300 and got matched with opponents who are as strong as you so it was a 50/50 match.
And at the end you dropped a little bit.
I cant spot anything weird.
.560% win rate ? u won 1 in 200 games?
@@en20drayt87 that would be great, because afterwards the algo will give you 199 wins to reach the 50% again
Great try on trying to get to Legend, you’ll make it this season 👍🏻
GBL has never worked properly. I love playing it but find it too frustrating at the same time. The new ‘bug’ I had last season was for the app to crash just as the battle started, trying to get back into the app was made impossible by Nerfantic for a good 3 mins (instead of being able to get back into the battle to have a chance of winning it). When I have gotten back into gbl, I’ve lost that battle, never even had a chance to play it. That’s happened to me several times and it 🤬 me off, big time!
I don’t play GL cause the meta is to big, I accept that. That’s why I stick to ML and focus on how to play around certain teams and I stuck to 1 team through out 3 rotations to stick to that one team
This season was so strange. I was 2900 and then unintentionally went down to 2400 in about 5 sets. I then went straight back up to 2900 and then immediately back down to 2400 and then back up to 33xx with leaderboard. I had no close matches and the sets were either 0-5/1-4 or 5-0/4-1. I had a 52% winrate at the end.
Same thing happened to me multiple times
I felt that too more than other seasons, the only time I feel like I went 3-2 was when the other player either dc’d, stopped attacking or forfeit while they were ahead
You don't drop 500 ELO in "about 5 sets." Stop it.
@@Bluebloods7 Calm down. That's why I wrote "in about". Let it be 6 sets or only 450 elo.
@@PeterZwegat430 yeah, calm down is excellent advice for you to take. Stop exaggerating, stop lying, stop blaming the algorithm, stop sucking at the game. It's not that hard. Or just quit if it is?
i left previous season (16)at veteran at 2404 points when i felt i cannot go on with gbl for the rest of the season with 300 games i did end up at 2410 this season(17) with 1000 games surely i played bad but amount of hard matchups and game issues i had didnt felt that hard on season 16 its literally differed 700 games to keep my self at same el o range and i apply mechanics as much as i can aswell my all time best was 2924
I've been keeping track of my win percentage for the past 3 seasons, and here are my results
Adventures Abound: 1228-1192 (50.74%)
Timeless travels: 1224-1122 (52.18%)
World of Wonders: 865-800 (51.9%)
"an algorithm would go against niantics policy, so it would not be an advanced one", the thing with algorithms is, they are predictable and they have flaws, so you should be able to figure out when you get the easier/harder matches, how about you counter that? when down, use a team that put extra pressure when in good lead, when up, use a team that can handle bad leads/switches, unexpected coverage moves, make a team that is statistically double weak but has coverage moves? Like force the game thinking you are weak to a very specific type, narrow it down, and be prepared for that. But only use that team when you think the algorithm will serve you those 'get back to 50 matchups'..
The problem I had is that I only got tough hard counter losses, or easy hard answer wins. It was either 0-5 or 5-0, and after a while it got boring, so I stopped playing GBL. And if I wasn’t playing GBL then I didn’t really need to build or catch Pokémon, because I wasn't using them. People need a reason to catch Pokémon. At least I did.
Dan, you’re a smart guy. If you think there is a matchmaking system that tries to keep you at 50ish percent, but you don’t think the system purposefully matches you against hard counters? As that’s a bridge too far. I then want to ask how would the easy to code matchmaking system keep you around 50ish percent then? What would the mechanism be that does that if it isn’t matching you with a hard counter? All it really takes is a hard lost lead in most instances. The matchmaking system sees Dan wants to play and is leading Swampert. Then they see me leading serperior. And boom, we get matched. Is that some Uber complicated coding? And again if so, what is the mechanism for the matching making system keeping you at 50ish percent?
I think the GBL algo also takes into account how many games you have played. Someone Who Isn’t Me.. plays gbl on two accounts, 1 of them has over 10k great league wins, the other only has about 1.5-2k wins. The one with less wins finds opponents with the same elo but far less skilled.. like they use mons with the wrong moves or only have 1 charged move. The account with over 10k wins is a much harder grind while the the other account cruises to the same elo and higher
Every player that gets to legend does it differently. You started this season saying you weren't going to do all your set then tried to catch up later. I think if you're going to hit legend, you have to do all your sets every day and that might be what works best for you. The game has bugs and other factors that impact the experience, but I'm sure you would have gotten further if you could also include the sets you didn't play this season.
I really enjoyed this video. I've always enjoyed your candid view the meta and GBL. This season you seem be having fun and it showed.
If ninact fixed the ELO system, more people would make legend, AND the leader board would work better. It would be nice to see best of the best compete daily.
Thank you for all your hard work.
Finnally, regarding gate keeping.
If manners maketh the man,
Courtesy is the mark of a gentleman.
Got legend last day, multiple legend before.
My two hardest problems were #1 finding a team that works for me and just run with, and #2 goddamn playing on an Android Phone have been absolutely horrible this season. I cant count the amount of times I lost a battle due to laging not 1turn but 2.. A complete joke of a game tbh
Thanks, Dan, you are so genuine that it's nearly heartbreaking :) Good luck in new season and I want to see you crash the master league one day.
EVERYONE had freezes, frame drops, stutters etc. iOS or Android, fast wifi or slow, didn't make a difference. Saw it in every content creators videos, and experienced it firsthand. And for every time you're hard countered, someone is gaining. Do you have any idea of the logistics of that type of coding? Because if your opponent gained, then at some point he has to lose and someone has to gain etc etc. It's madness. If you play people at your skill level on a consistent basis, you'll end up in the 50%-ish range every time.
Thank you for saying this. I can't believe it has to be said. Dan seems like a decently smart guy. Blows my mind that this is not easily understood.
dan you’re main problem is switching your teams too much to make content. I understand you have a fear of your channel not growing, but at the end of the day, you have to find a balance with your own sanity, your own goals in the game, and your goals with your channel. I couldn’t imagine trying to play gbl and switching my team all the time, especially if it’s working well, just to pump out new content. Seems like a double edged sword. It’s nice to have more content, but if the team tanks, then you just tanked your elo, you have no decent content to show, and then you’re in a bad mood because your elo isn’t working out that well. You got this man. The legend pose was really lame last season anyway. Haven’t really had a good one since lisandre anyway.
I think utube made the player base really good at pvp and it makes it 100 times harder to win with the algorithm, i wish they would do a bring 6 pick 3 format, it would get crazy
First time expert this season, long time ace veteran, you are by far my favorite gbl RUclipsr, do you think crappy cup rotation impacted your legend push this season?
You really think the meta is more limited now than it was during previous seasons? Like the medi/noctowl/lanturn/trev season? I actually think it’s opened up a bit since 4 seasons ago.
What you say after 16:56 is an algorithm. There may be nuance in the complexity of the algorithm, but that's what we're dealing with
The argument that the algorithm tries to keep you at 50% win rate is hilarious, the ELO system already takes care of that by increasing your ELO when you win which results in you playing against better players until you start losing more --> you start to round at about 50% win rate. This is always skewed of course in the beginning of the season. I don't see any reason for Niantic to implement something like this in addition to the ELO system.
As you explained initially, all of it can be explained by statistics, probability, normal distribution etc.
I liked the points you brought up about not hitting Legend. I also wonder if the changing demographic of players is another factor to consider. With all the bugs in the game and the backlash Niantic gets from the choices they make, I wonder if the less skilled "casual" players are the ones leaving the game. Also, I would assume that POGO players have learned many critical skills from your videos (and those of other RUclipsrs as well) and have greatly improved their gameplay. I know that the selection of PVP battles that are available can hinder my performance *cough-catchcup-cough 😂(but I'm also not a very good battler😂)
As a long time viewer and supporter I just want to say everyone deals with the game lags and freezes including Legends! So that’s not acceptable! Buttttt I do want to say looking from the viewer side, I think the largest impact was the loss of interest in the middle of the season. There were a few weeks where you were not completing your sets because you lost interest in the game. Even admitted that this was the first time you had missed sets since the start of GBL. Just my opinion. Good luck with next season!
GBL win percentage = 52.2
In person battles = 91.6
🤔
Thats easy explained cause you will play a lot of players that are much worse in tournaments since its not skill based matchmaking.
@@MegaHallo9 thats actually a fair point as I have way to know for sure. I will say this almost every person has legend attire on their avatar at said tournaments and play incredibly well. I am just able to over come things as I’m not triple hard counter when it’s random in person match ups.
S6P3 is very different than ladder. There really should be any situation in S6P3 where you end hard countered throughout the entire match
Shouldnt*
@@anthonyiscoolxx if you do a little quick math the odds of getting triple hard countered in GBL should be very slim as well. It’s similar to hitting the pick 3 number straight.
For what it’s worth, coding a hard counter match making wouldn’t be that difficult. Especially if they only focused on leads which can determine matchups in a lot of cases.
I don’t believe in the “Algo”, but it wouldn’t be that hard to implement
This is interesting! @DanOttawaPOGO You should test this out! Must be possible to make a team with a "trick lead" of some sort to test this theory out? 😅
it isnt as you said. But we are talking about Niantic XD
They have already done it by giving you a recommended team when you join a raid, and that team is different depending on what charged attack the raid pokemon has.
I wouldn’t classify myself as an elite legend battler, but I was able to maintain a 57.5% win rate last season playing just over 900 battles. I try to minimize my sets to be as efficient as possible since I prefer going out and catching/playing events with friends. I usually stick to meta cores/teams that work with Pokémon I’m familiar with using or watching. Maybe try to reduce your pool of Pokémon once you hit expert to make a legend push, and then you can come back and create content with new Pokémon after hitting legend in future seasons.
I had a nearly identical experience trying to grind for legend in the last couple days of the season. Got up in the 2900s and got completely rps’d/hard countered for 15 straight games and ruined my chances
Collaboration with POKEAK when?
I think that there is an algorithm, and I think that people make it way too complicated. I think that it only looks at the lead matchup and that's it. It doesn't look at entire teams or anything, just the lead.
Two things:
1)You are right about Niantic not caring enough about gbl to actually code up a matchmaking system. This is why they use the built-
in one from Unity.
I don’t believe in the PokeAk variant of the algorithm theory. That said it is trivial to notice a change in the distribution of Pokemon you see when you switch teams.
There is an algorithm, it does introduce some artificial difficulty, and it’s not an excuse for not climbing.
2) you have nothing to prove Dan, you’re an amazing battler and a first season of mostly focusing on your channel doesn’t really mean much.
I can only say I really enjoy your content and I just hope that the state of gbl doesn’t kill your joy for the game.
I was at 53% last season and 56% season before but still haven’t hit expert. Havent made about 2300. But I also only do maybe 7-10 matches a day. Do you need to do every set to hit higher ranks?
So many try to talk crap just for telling the truth about the algorithm. It’s for sure real and in my opinion the system they got is rigged and flawed. Not to mention all the bugs they had last season, so many of them.
I think there is 100% an algorithm, i also believe there are tricks of the trade to hitting legend that are not shared between everyone.
I hit Legend two of the last three seasons, including last season where I peaked at 3148. The "tricks of the trade" are all out there in the open -- learn good move timing, know your counts, manage your energy, build good teams, get a little lucky. There's no secret inner circle of Legends hoarding all the knowledge.
@@seannorris85 0451 3824 0369 lets be friends and do some practice battles, i have teams built for all leagues
Started playing in April and joined gbl once I got my first trio of pvp statted pokemon that game press said was ok. Had no synergy at all but i didn’t know better and I pushed through the first 15 ranks with my umbreon, wiggly, machamp team. Then along comes my first “cup” which banned wiggly and umbreon so I had to adapt. Luckily by that point I had found a annihilape and charizard and I had built up enough dust to spec them up. Still not a great team but it got me through to 19, but having that anihilape showed me what I was missing.
I hit 20 just before catch cup started and as placed at 1590 with a 49% win ratio but that’s when things really turned around. My new prime/umb/wigg team was romping through catch cup and I climbed to 1950 before it was over with 4-5 wins happening more often than not.
When the final opened happened the quality of play seemed significantly worse allowing me to keep pushing to a final standing of 2205 and a win percentage of well over 50%. There was no “algorithm” that I could detect.
NGL I feel like there could be an algorithm, I kept trying teams with meta mons the whole time I played, every almost every match I’d get lead countered or triple countered. My BEST team of the season was using Crustle of all things cause no one had good answers to it
That's 😁. Hope that crusty team was fun
I just wonder why I had Experts in the 2400 elo on the last 2 days keeping an Ace player from getting vet.