Best thing about Meade is he wasn't afraid of Lee and he wasn't burdened with the need to be seen as a military genius. Give me a realist in command everytime.
Extremely insightful. Logistics always get overlooked regarding most wars, but they often dictate the outcome before the first shots! I’m grateful that you brought that partially to light. I did a report on Meade as a child. I quite appreciate his style; he’s an underrated general!
I was a US Army logistics officer in Desert Storm and a lifelong student of military history. Meade was no Napoleon, but much more of a Wellington, at best. If Napoleon had won a battle of the central position at Gettysburg and had the entire, defeated, far from home, enemy army limping away with a large river to cross, he would have thrown absolutely everything into a pursuit and eradication. How many horses did Napoleon lose in surrounding and capturing an entire Austrian army at Ulm in 1805? How many horses did he lose pursuing and annihilating the Prussian army after the twin victories of Jena-Auerstadt in 1806? No one cares. Meade was a fool to not push his forces to the limit in trapping Lee on the banks of the Potomac River after a major defeat for Lee at Gettysburg. Whining about horses and mules is a level of ridiculous worthy of George McClellan. For Heaven's sakes, it was July in some of the richest farmland in America; the Pennsylvania- Maryland border land south of Gettysburg. This wasn't the Shenandoah Valley of 1865, the land had barely been touched in comparison. If the Union Army had been under Stonewall Jackson, Lee would have been in dire straits rather than having a leisurely 68 hours of unimpeded pontoon bridge building. Assume this headlong pursuit failed. Would Lee and his badly battered, likewise low on supplies, demoralized army, have been a real threat to all the fortresses guarding Washington DC? To Baltimore? Meade had a chance to devastate an army of irreplaceable soldiers with one that was fielding Irish right off the boat and and would soon be filled out with draftees. Meade was a good tactician, but he was no strategist.
He kept Meade because he knew the Army best. But Grant quickly took overall command after the wilderness. Meade second fiddle once the 1864 campaign season got going.
@revolutionoutdoorsandstuff5846 Meade only survived Gettysburg and there was no counterattack after Picketts charge or any attack on the 4th and let Lee reteart in good order back to Virginia! Meade had the McClellan slows, 10 months after Gettysburg Lee was not seriously engaged until may of 1864 and only because Grant said where Lee goes you go.
@@danielkitchens4512 no disrespect, but your comment shows barely a surface level knowledge of the battle. The union army was in no shape for a pursuit of the army of Northern Virginia. They took massive casualties and barely had food or water for days. There was zero chance the army was in any condition to pursue.
Kent thank you for your video. I remember over 10 years ago hearing you give a talk on the Antietam campaign in western Maryland. Kent nobody does such an exemplary job of pointing out the logistics and supply sides of these battles. I am enjoying another fine civil war talk of yours. I wish you and your family well with peace health and happiness.
Fascinating lecture, the only one to mention the problems of logistics which Meade faced. I've read a lot about the battle (and visited the battlefield) but hadn't realised the supply position was as bad as it was. Only one point, it's not really an Army Commander's job to send Brigades into action - shouldn't that have been left to Corps and Divisional commanders under Meade's orders?
Napoleon commanded individual gun batteries at times, it really is not so strictly defined where exactly a good commander delegates or takes command. Because the line is in how necessary and well received the command is rather. So saying what the "job" of an army commander would be in the same situation is only up to his direct superiors and not something that is objective across all armies battlefields and situations. If everything under his command is his responsibility then everything he commands he should be personally responsible for. To that end, it should be left up to lower commanders only if those commanders are able to bear that portion of responsibility. Recognizing when your subordinates are unable to do the job and helping them to get to that point by teaching, showing, and doing, is absolutely the commanders job. All that said he could have just been a micromanager or tradition had not yet empowered lower level commanders with those kinds of decisions. A modern private can make decisions generals of old were never allowed to after all.
Interesting and I think fair comment, especially as a cause of Lee's failure was because he failed to coordinate the attacks on the second day. @@BeKindToBirds
A commander's job is to be at the point of decision, and to take the most critical actions. At that point those brigades were what would win or lose the battle. In addition, Meade had just had Sickles ignore or confuse his orders. He would not have allowed that to happen again, exactly as the enemy - at full strength - was beginning his attack against a defense not yet established. We've seen Patton directing traffic at a single road intersection, because restoring movement was the most important task at the moment. This is much the same.
Not really- it's a rule of thumb that a commander concerns himself with the dispositions of up to three echelons below him. For a Civil War Army commander that would be Corp/Division/Brigade.
Good grief! Actually going to the National Archives and holding in your hands the letters taken form General Reynold's pockets! That is what I call scholarship. Kind of reminds me of Gandalf riding to Minas Tirith and looking through the ancient documents written by Isuldur pertaining to the One Ring. Well done!
I don’t think there is enough presented on the topological engineers, they were the best and brightest, chosen especially to map the U.S. . Meade was one. He was the only Union commander to face Lee with numerical parity when Lee had many of his best commanders still with him. Meade ranked 30th in line for command though well respected by his fellow officers that were not totally politicized, surviving unending personal assaults even after passing. If I understand, his friend and fellow Pennsylvanian John Reynolds refused command demanding a free hand. He gladly worked with Meade. I wish I could find more information on how Lincoln chose Meade. The only reference I could find was something like a fly would be more likely to defend its food source, pretty harsh. July 3 after Pickett’s charge Meade tried to reorganize for a counterattack but losses in officers he trusted and mixed units prevented that. He is quoted as calling Lee the greatest counter puncher and he couldn’t know how badly Lee was hurt and could not risk the potential response if he attacked disorganized. Fairly recently the confederate retreat and subsequent campaign has been well documented supporting Meade’s decisions. Thank you for the added insights
i think you have found all there is to find about why Lincoln picked Meade ... and at that point in the war, the General Officer pickings in the AOP were pretty slim ... when Reynolds said "no thanks," Meade was the only good candidate.
All of the corps commander (except Sickles) recommended Meade for commander of the Army of the Potomac. Lincoln and Stanton had run out of time, so they ordered Meade to command.
@@marknewton6984 That was part of the problem with the Union Army to begin with. Lincoln had too much influence over his General Staff and hence making the General Staff extremely politicized. As we know from history (Vietnam in particular) politician’s making decisions for field Commanders, never works. This was a great lecture and he has truly changed my outlook of Gettysburg. However, when the historical FACTS outweigh tradition? One must be willing to change their opinions when presented with historical facts in a manner that we didn’t know 20-30 years ago. We now know that General Longstreet was an excellent field commander. Longstreet didn’t want any part of fighting at Gettysburg and he was right. But the South needed a scapegoat. Now we know why General Meade didn’t immediately “reach out and grab the Army of Northern Virginia.” As he pointed out, “Chase General Lee with what?!” Why did General Buford dismount his Calvary and not simply report back to General Meade where the Rebels were and what they were doing? The Town held no military value whatsoever. It was like everything these Generals were taught at West Point and were told what to do by their Commander officer went out the window? Dan Sickles was a glory hound and he put General Meade’s entire Army at risk with his shenanigans! Dan Sickles reminds me of another lousy American General and that General is Mark Clark. Who was another glory hound instead of doing his job! Unfortunately, a lot of the Yankee Commanders were glory hounds. As a Yankee myself, it’s unfortunate so many people (on both sides) had to die because of their Commanders mistakes.
I still think Longstreet was slow on Day 2. He gave an assignment clown like Sickles a path to "glory." Meade was probably smart not to pursue Lee. Lincoln did not like it but that's war.
That was a very good defense of Meade. I think most people just accept what Lincoln said without putting much thought into whether it was reasonable or not.
I agree Meade was underappreciated. He completely outsmarted Lee at Gettysburg. However I'm pretty sure it was Warren who was responsible for putting troops on little round top just in the nick of time.
Some academics, including a famous Gettysburg scholar, seem to continue to work Meade over. Meade was reactionary, not proactive at Gettysburg. Meade's Corp commanders saved the day. True to a point, but a few of these generals turned Lincoln down when asked to replace Fighting Joe. Hence, Meade takes command. Everyone, but Meade, gets credit. Masterson Brown, in a small way, is doing for Meade what Chernow has done for Grant.
Truly amazing how someone so dedicated to understanding these conflicts would "happen upon" so many pertinent historical documents of tha time. Its as though a giant hand has been helping him to gain understanding that he could give to others.
Stuart's raid pre-Gettysburg included taking 125 wagons of Meade's supplies, cutting Meade's telegraph communications with Washington and destroying the Army of the Potomac's railroad supply lines .... should have mitigated somewhat Lee's ire at Stuart for his absence once the battle commenced
when you don't execute your primary mission, you get no points for wagons or cut telegraph lines ... Stuart's mission was to screen the ANV and keep the commanding general informed of the AOP's location -- he did not do that.
@@markharnitchek9205 But the Army of the Potomac didn't launch a surprise attack on the ANV : Lee 's force wasn't 'ambushed' for want of Stuart's intelligence about his enemy's location. After Heth's division found the Federals at Gettysburg, Lee chose to fight Meade there. I think Lee's decision-making was badly flawed at Gettysburg - verging on arrogance - and Day 3 suggests he was near to unbalanced.
@Baskerville22 Lee wasn't ambushed, but he certainly didn't realize what he was walking into before it was already underway. I see it like a blind man stumbling around and eventually bumping into someone, his eyes were not doing their primary job. Yes the raids on the AOP hurt them, but can that really make up for the failure to inform Lee? I'm not an expert on the Gettysburg campaign, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Many don't realize how effective Meade really was. He had just assumed control of the Army of the Potomac, 3 or 4 days before the Battle of Gettysburg's beginning. That's pretty freaking amazing considering AOP was two steps behind Lee's strategy. We'd be hard pressed to find another Union General that could have pivoted and adapted si quickly. Grant, the only one I believe would possibly surpass Meade's amazing pivot and adaptation. It's easy, from the lens of history, to condemn Meade's failure to follow through and pursue Lee. I view it instead that many of the Army Senior Staff, had not accepted that the only way to end the war, would be to decisively defeat the Confederate Army to the point they had no will, nor means to continue the fight. Grant, was one of the few that realized and accepted this was the only way the North would triumph.
There is simply not enough grass. Horses and mules are hell on the grasses that make up North American pastures. They need approx 3 acres per horse or mule. That is approximately 450 square miles of just pasture. That is about a rectangle 20 miles by 22 miles, if there are no roads, trees, fences, tents etc on the land.
Grasses have different nutritional values for the horses and mules. One army manual for cavalry specified what grasses to obtain, if possible while on the march. Sometimes supply officers far in advance of the columns would buy an entire crop of oats, corn or hay ready for harvest and have it ready when the army got to it.
Horses also require oats to be properly fed. Between 1-2 million horses and mules died in the civil war. The average life expectancy for the horse in the field was 7 months
A very gripping and exciting account. Did read write to LIncoln and explain the situation? Did he explain to Lincoln that his animals were starving and modt had died, his mules had also died, and his men were starving? And that why he could not advance immediately to follow Lee? He should have defended himself and explained the situation to Lincoln. Did he?
I'm reading the book. It's a great insight into what a commanding General has to do. It's not just waving an arm and telling the right wing to attack. Coordinating and running a giant army is extremely difficult.
We would really need to know the condition of Lee's army and how bad of shape it was in after Gettysburg. Its usually easier to defend to attack but I can't believe that Lee's troops were in very good shape after loosing the battle and I assume poorly supplied
Good lecture, but if anything strengthens the argument that Lee should have forced him to maneuver after the first day. That would have strained his assets further. But it didn’t happen that way.
To be fair, Sickles moved forward because he didn't want the enemy using the Peach Orchard as an artillery platform like they did @ Chancellorsville with Hagels Grove (which, when ordered to withdrawal and give it up without a fight, he disgruntledly obeyed). Of course, he should have talked this over first with his Commander. Also why Sickles didn't bring up any artillery to support his troops seems suspect. I'm almost certain he told some to leave their position at Cemetary Ridge but i will have to look into this... I find Meade a fascinating character as well and this is some solid research.
The lack of grain and forage for the army chasing the Cheyenne and Sioux after the Battle of Little Big Horn is known as the "Horse Meat Campaign." Horses were breaking down by the dozens from lack of food and being eaten by the soldiers. At the time each horse required 6 lbs of grain and as much grazing as possible daily. The retreating Native Americans fired the prairies for hundreds of square miles, preventing grazing. It was a relief column of farmers and townspeople with a wagon train from Deadwood which saved the remaining horses, mules and men. The firing of the prairies also changed the weather. One official reading in a tent in July 1876 was 117 degrees, three weeks later four inches of snow fell on the army overnight: (On the Border with Crook).
Brown's information was fascinating, but his maps were absolutely lousy. I couldn't read the town names on my 32" TV even up up close to the screen. On another note, both my daughter, husband and their oldest are graduates of Centre College, the younger sister is a current sophomore, and I live in Danville, Ky, the location of the college. Brown is Center class of '71.
If Lee foraged his way to Gettysburg and was observed to have some 1000s of livestock fattening his troops - would that not factor into a counterattack? Nothing would be a greater incentive to rise from the defensive position and attack than the knowledge that a fine repast awaited the attacking federal troops if victorious. I suppose that troops feasting on captured reb supplies would be discouraged by leadership. But it clearly did not stop Grant from picking the Shenandoah valley clean later on.
Got to give Mr. Masterson credit for finding the evidence that would have put paid to Dan Syckles' career besmirching claims about Gen. George Mead post Gettysburg. Great content, but a might slow-in-the-flow.
This settles the controversy of why Meade could not pursue the enemy, all Armies have to eat!, exposure, stress and weather. Life eats other life. God Bless General George Meade. These horses must be somewhere in the soils; or paved over? Disagree with last signopsys, of Lee's advantage with food and medical on the retreat, he suffered too greatly at Gettysburg, and since the war to recover from the loss of life in the Army; and then Lincoln won in 1864.
Abraham Lincoln was a surveyor when he was 25 years old. I'm sure he understood the value in topographic knowledge, high ground and water sources during battles.
GREAT TALK. A bit heavy on the "I don't know if a commander ever faced what Meade faced". LOL. M'Kay. A guy named Paulus comes to mind. Just for starters.
I suppose McClellan is justified in his inaction. A single movement could have crippled his own army! It took a man of action, foresight, and extreme organization to tackle Lee’s army. That man was Meade!
People forget that Lincoln never sent the letter to Meade, it was found afterward. Also, Lincoln never did replace Meade even though there was political pressure to do it.
You always hear how General Sickles pushes too far forward….was it really that big of a mistake? Gettysburg was that first Union victory in how long? You’re closed minded to think if Sickles followed orders the outcome would’ve been better. We will never know…. But, Sickles arrogance/whatever, played its role in the Federal victory. I’m open to rebuttals.
From like 35:00 onwards he literally spends 5 minutes saying: “He disobeyed orders and advanced anyways.” Brevity being the soul of wit is lost on this guy. Extremely tedious lecture
Its true Meade did well in the fight. But all he had to do was counter-punch on the 3rd. Lee would have been forced to rout/skedaddle and/or lose his artillery guns or surrender. He was deep in hostile territory with no high ground for defense; little or no artillery ammo; depleted manpower; and, in big trouble overburdened with wounded. At the very least Meade should have made an attempt to test Lee's strength. Letting Lee retreat unharassed cost Meade his reputation.
My questions are, (and I don't know the answers): 1.) In what condition were his Cavalry? 2.) What intelligence did he have? 3.) In what state were his logistics? 4.) In what condition was his command structure? If any of these were in a state of disarray after the battle, then without the benefit of 160 years of hindsight, but based upon what Meade knew at the time, does this change our perception of the choices available to him? Edit: spelling error.
Good questions. I guess one just has to go with what Lee expected. He fully expected a counter-punch but it never came. It's just as well to be cautious - the rebs had already had their fun messing with my distant relative General Milroy at Winchester on the way to Gettysburg. Although, that very depressing union defeat was likely a big part of why Lincoln replaced McClellan with Meade 3 days later just before Gettysburg. Meade had just suffered 3 attacks successfully - why push one's luck?@@jonpick5045
The issue being that Meade was in as bad and in some ways worse shape then Lee by the 3rd. The Army of the Potomac is short on artillery and musket ammunition, it’s extremely short on rations, it’s extremely short on fodder, and the men have spent the entire last week either on forced marches, digging fighting positions or in combat. Meanwhile the Army of Northern Virginia has captured a large amount of the Army of the Potomac’s supplies both from depots such as Carlisle Barracks and wagon trains. The Army of Northern Virginia has also seriously compromised the Army of the Potomac’s lines of communications which make requisitioning and getting supplies in a timely manor to be able to effectively pursue the Army of Northern Virginia impossible.
Lectern! You place your notes on and stand behind a lectern.a podium is the low platform you stand on. podiatrist is a foot doctor not a speech counselor. Eight feet is an octo podes,Greek for octopus. You stand on a podium.
In modern usage, "podium" and "lectern" can be synonyms, as per the secondary definition below: po•di•um \"po-de-em\ n, pl podiums or po•dia \-de-e\ 1 : a dais esp. for an orchestral conductor 2 : lectern (c)2000 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All rights reserved
I'm glad Dan Sickles took a major leadership role in organizing the GAR and battlefield memorials. Conversely, his desire to defend his inept 3rd Corp Generalship at Gettysburg, at the expense of a dead Meade is totally disgusting. All those fingerpointing memoirs, editorials, and Lost Cause writings become tiresome and unreadable.
M8 do you realise that we cannot hear what the questions from the audience are...? Sack your sound "engineer ". Apart from that I totally enjoyed your speech.
Poor Meade had logistical problems and Lee was having a field day with way too much for his army, right? Meade was not aware of the first day of Gettysburg, barely knew of the second day and he asked his generals if they didn't want to flee, and he learned about Pickett charge after it was repulsed. Meade was so on top of everything than most if not all the troop movements each day, when battle was engaged, were done without him having a clue about it.
Best thing about Meade is he wasn't afraid of Lee and he wasn't burdened with the need to be seen as a military genius. Give me a realist in command everytime.
This is Pure Gold
Such a great lecture, you taught me so much about general meade, he was the right man for the job at hand
Extremely insightful. Logistics always get overlooked regarding most wars, but they often dictate the outcome before the first shots! I’m grateful that you brought that partially to light.
I did a report on Meade as a child. I quite appreciate his style; he’s an underrated general!
I was a US Army logistics officer in Desert Storm and a lifelong student of military history. Meade was no Napoleon, but much more of a Wellington, at best. If Napoleon had won a battle of the central position at Gettysburg and had the entire, defeated, far from home, enemy army limping away with a large river to cross, he would have thrown absolutely everything into a pursuit and eradication. How many horses did Napoleon lose in surrounding and capturing an entire Austrian army at Ulm in 1805? How many horses did he lose pursuing and annihilating the Prussian army after the twin victories of Jena-Auerstadt in 1806? No one cares.
Meade was a fool to not push his forces to the limit in trapping Lee on the banks of the Potomac River after a major defeat for Lee at Gettysburg. Whining about horses and mules is a level of ridiculous worthy of George McClellan. For Heaven's sakes, it was July in some of the richest farmland in America; the Pennsylvania- Maryland border land south of Gettysburg. This wasn't the Shenandoah Valley of 1865, the land had barely been touched in comparison. If the Union Army had been under Stonewall Jackson, Lee would have been in dire straits rather than having a leisurely 68 hours of unimpeded pontoon bridge building.
Assume this headlong pursuit failed. Would Lee and his badly battered, likewise low on supplies, demoralized army, have been a real threat to all the fortresses guarding Washington DC? To Baltimore? Meade had a chance to devastate an army of irreplaceable soldiers with one that was fielding Irish right off the boat and and would soon be filled out with draftees. Meade was a good tactician, but he was no strategist.
Thank you for elevating Mead - his small statue in DC is the tiniest token to this great man.
Grants decision to keep Meade in command after he took charge of the entire army speaks volumes.
He kept Meade because he knew the Army best. But Grant quickly took overall command after the wilderness. Meade second fiddle once the 1864 campaign season got going.
Meade was promoted sideways, a military insult.
Meade never got the respect hr deserves and demands. Grant was no better that’s for sure.
@revolutionoutdoorsandstuff5846
Meade only survived Gettysburg and there was no counterattack after Picketts charge or any attack on the 4th and let Lee reteart in good order back to Virginia!
Meade had the McClellan slows, 10 months after Gettysburg Lee was not seriously engaged until may of 1864 and only because Grant said where Lee goes you go.
@@danielkitchens4512 no disrespect, but your comment shows barely a surface level knowledge of the battle. The union army was in no shape for a pursuit of the army of Northern Virginia. They took massive casualties and barely had food or water for days. There was zero chance the army was in any condition to pursue.
Thanks again. Bravo Kent. This is one of the best talks I have heard with an abundance of helpful information.
This was terrific
Kent thank you for your video. I remember over 10 years ago hearing you give a talk on the Antietam campaign in western Maryland. Kent nobody does such an exemplary job of pointing out the logistics and supply sides of these battles. I am enjoying another fine civil war talk of yours. I wish you and your family well with peace health and happiness.
Fascinating lecture, the only one to mention the problems of logistics which Meade faced. I've read a lot about the battle (and visited the battlefield) but hadn't realised the supply position was as bad as it was. Only one point, it's not really an Army Commander's job to send Brigades into action - shouldn't that have been left to Corps and Divisional commanders under Meade's orders?
Napoleon commanded individual gun batteries at times, it really is not so strictly defined where exactly a good commander delegates or takes command.
Because the line is in how necessary and well received the command is rather. So saying what the "job" of an army commander would be in the same situation is only up to his direct superiors and not something that is objective across all armies battlefields and situations.
If everything under his command is his responsibility then everything he commands he should be personally responsible for. To that end, it should be left up to lower commanders only if those commanders are able to bear that portion of responsibility.
Recognizing when your subordinates are unable to do the job and helping them to get to that point by teaching, showing, and doing, is absolutely the commanders job.
All that said he could have just been a micromanager or tradition had not yet empowered lower level commanders with those kinds of decisions.
A modern private can make decisions generals of old were never allowed to after all.
Interesting and I think fair comment, especially as a cause of Lee's failure was because he failed to coordinate the attacks on the second day. @@BeKindToBirds
A commander's job is to be at the point of decision, and to take the most critical actions. At that point those brigades were what would win or lose the battle. In addition, Meade had just had Sickles ignore or confuse his orders. He would not have allowed that to happen again, exactly as the enemy - at full strength - was beginning his attack against a defense not yet established. We've seen Patton directing traffic at a single road intersection, because restoring movement was the most important task at the moment. This is much the same.
Not really- it's a rule of thumb that a commander concerns himself with the dispositions of up to three echelons below him. For a Civil War Army commander that would be Corp/Division/Brigade.
Outstanding seminar. Excellent in every way.
FASCINATING. Your talk has opened up for me critical dimensions of the campaign and battle that ive not known about heretofore. 👏
Good grief! Actually going to the National Archives and holding in your hands the letters taken form General Reynold's pockets! That is what I call scholarship. Kind of reminds me of Gandalf riding to Minas Tirith and looking through the ancient documents written by Isuldur pertaining to the One Ring. Well done!
I was touched by the story of his horse Old Baldy.
I don’t think there is enough presented on the topological engineers, they were the best and brightest, chosen especially to map the U.S. . Meade was one. He was the only Union commander to face Lee with numerical parity when Lee had many of his best commanders still with him. Meade ranked 30th in line for command though well respected by his fellow officers that were not totally politicized, surviving unending personal assaults even after passing. If I understand, his friend and fellow Pennsylvanian John Reynolds refused command demanding a free hand. He gladly worked with Meade. I wish I could find more information on how Lincoln chose Meade. The only reference I could find was something like a fly would be more likely to defend its food source, pretty harsh. July 3 after Pickett’s charge Meade tried to reorganize for a counterattack but losses in officers he trusted and mixed units prevented that. He is quoted as calling Lee the greatest counter puncher and he couldn’t know how badly Lee was hurt and could not risk the potential response if he attacked disorganized. Fairly recently the confederate retreat and subsequent campaign has been well documented supporting Meade’s decisions. Thank you for the added insights
i think you have found all there is to find about why Lincoln picked Meade ... and at that point in the war, the General Officer pickings in the AOP were pretty slim ... when Reynolds said "no thanks," Meade was the only good candidate.
All of the corps commander (except Sickles) recommended Meade for commander of the Army of the Potomac. Lincoln and Stanton had run out of time, so they ordered Meade to command.
Lincoln didn't like Meade.
@@marknewton6984
That was part of the problem with the Union Army to begin with. Lincoln had too much influence over his General Staff and hence making the General Staff extremely politicized. As we know from history (Vietnam in particular) politician’s making decisions for field Commanders, never works. This was a great lecture and he has truly changed my outlook of Gettysburg. However, when the historical FACTS outweigh tradition? One must be willing to change their opinions when presented with historical facts in a manner that we didn’t know 20-30 years ago. We now know that General Longstreet was an excellent field commander. Longstreet didn’t want any part of fighting at Gettysburg and he was right. But the South needed a scapegoat. Now we know why General Meade didn’t immediately “reach out and grab the Army of Northern Virginia.” As he pointed out, “Chase General Lee with what?!” Why did General Buford dismount his Calvary and not simply report back to General Meade where the Rebels were and what they were doing? The Town held no military value whatsoever. It was like everything these Generals were taught at West Point and were told what to do by their Commander officer went out the window? Dan Sickles was a glory hound and he put General Meade’s entire Army at risk with his shenanigans! Dan Sickles reminds me of another lousy American General and that General is Mark Clark. Who was another glory hound instead of doing his job! Unfortunately, a lot of the Yankee Commanders were glory hounds. As a Yankee myself, it’s unfortunate so many people (on both sides) had to die because of their Commanders mistakes.
I still think Longstreet was slow on Day 2. He gave an assignment clown like Sickles a path to "glory." Meade was probably smart not to pursue Lee. Lincoln did not like it but that's war.
That was a very good defense of Meade. I think most people just accept what Lincoln said without putting much thought into whether it was reasonable or not.
You forgot to mention that Meade had been seriously wounded and had come back from 55 days recuperation. He was still dealing with the wound.
I learned a lot.
I agree Meade was underappreciated. He completely outsmarted Lee at Gettysburg. However I'm pretty sure it was Warren who was responsible for putting troops on little round top just in the nick of time.
Some academics, including a famous Gettysburg scholar, seem to continue to work Meade over. Meade was reactionary, not proactive at Gettysburg. Meade's Corp commanders saved the day. True to a point, but a few of these generals turned Lincoln down when asked to replace Fighting Joe. Hence, Meade takes command. Everyone, but Meade, gets credit. Masterson Brown, in a small way, is doing for Meade what Chernow has done for Grant.
This was excellent
Great information and analysis
Thank you!!!
Great listen!
Truly amazing how someone so dedicated to understanding these conflicts would "happen upon" so many pertinent historical documents of tha time. Its as though a giant hand has been helping him to gain understanding that he could give to others.
Or he just did a ton of research work.
Stuart's raid pre-Gettysburg included taking 125 wagons of Meade's supplies, cutting Meade's telegraph communications with Washington and destroying the Army of the Potomac's railroad supply lines .... should have mitigated somewhat Lee's ire at Stuart for his absence once the battle commenced
when you don't execute your primary mission, you get no points for wagons or cut telegraph lines ... Stuart's mission was to screen the ANV and keep the commanding general informed of the AOP's location -- he did not do that.
@@markharnitchek9205 But the Army of the Potomac didn't launch a surprise attack on the ANV : Lee 's force wasn't 'ambushed' for want of Stuart's intelligence about his enemy's location. After Heth's division found the Federals at Gettysburg, Lee chose to fight Meade there. I think Lee's decision-making was badly flawed at Gettysburg - verging on arrogance - and Day 3 suggests he was near to unbalanced.
@Baskerville22 Lee wasn't ambushed, but he certainly didn't realize what he was walking into before it was already underway. I see it like a blind man stumbling around and eventually bumping into someone, his eyes were not doing their primary job. Yes the raids on the AOP hurt them, but can that really make up for the failure to inform Lee? I'm not an expert on the Gettysburg campaign, so correct me if I'm wrong.
Not to mention it was pouring down rain making the roads muddy and difficult to traverse
Many don't realize how effective Meade really was. He had just assumed control of the Army of the Potomac, 3 or 4 days before the Battle of Gettysburg's beginning. That's pretty freaking amazing considering AOP was two steps behind Lee's strategy. We'd be hard pressed to find another Union General that could have pivoted and adapted si quickly. Grant, the only one I believe would possibly surpass Meade's amazing pivot and adaptation.
It's easy, from the lens of history, to condemn Meade's failure to follow through and pursue Lee. I view it instead that many of the Army Senior Staff, had not accepted that the only way to end the war, would be to decisively defeat the Confederate Army to the point they had no will, nor means to continue the fight. Grant, was one of the few that realized and accepted this was the only way the North would triumph.
Why there is no roads and status named after Mead and all about Lee?
3:50 Yes Sir, your dad would be proud. Well done.
Great Talk. I know very little about horses, but why could they not eat grass in the surrounding area?
There is simply not enough grass. Horses and mules are hell on the grasses that make up North American pastures. They need approx 3 acres per horse or mule. That is approximately 450 square miles of just pasture. That is about a rectangle 20 miles by 22 miles, if there are no roads, trees, fences, tents etc on the land.
Grasses have different nutritional values for the horses and mules. One army manual for cavalry specified what grasses to obtain, if possible while on the march. Sometimes supply officers far in advance of the columns would buy an entire crop of oats, corn or hay ready for harvest and have it ready when the army got to it.
Horses also require oats to be properly fed. Between 1-2 million horses and mules died in the civil war. The average life expectancy for the horse in the field was 7 months
One of my fav ACW generals
Getting ready to run the ballast , your tips really help charlie thanks ! 😂 Dlg
A very gripping and exciting account. Did read write to LIncoln and explain the situation? Did he explain to Lincoln that his animals were starving and modt had died, his mules had also died, and his men were starving? And that why he could not advance immediately to follow Lee? He should have defended himself and explained the situation to Lincoln. Did he?
I'm reading the book. It's a great insight into what a commanding General has to do. It's not just waving an arm and telling the right wing to attack. Coordinating and running a giant army is extremely difficult.
Can Meede use both maps?
Great lecture but it would have been nice to see the maps.
Brilliant!
Excellent.
‘a study in command is the Gettysburg Bible - Gettysburg park guide
We would really need to know the condition of Lee's army and how bad of shape it was in after Gettysburg. Its usually easier to defend to attack but I can't believe that Lee's troops were in very good shape after loosing the battle and I assume poorly supplied
Good lecture, but if anything strengthens the argument that Lee should have forced him to maneuver after the first day. That would have strained his assets further. But it didn’t happen that way.
It’s “ensured” not “insured”
Bugs me too, though I'm like that. At one point my Twitter bio was "You almost certainly mean 'complement.'"
To be fair, Sickles moved forward because he didn't want the enemy using the Peach Orchard as an artillery platform like they did @ Chancellorsville with Hagels Grove (which, when ordered to withdrawal and give it up without a fight, he disgruntledly obeyed). Of course, he should have talked this over first with his Commander. Also why Sickles didn't bring up any artillery to support his troops seems suspect. I'm almost certain he told some to leave their position at Cemetary Ridge but i will have to look into this... I find Meade a fascinating character as well and this is some solid research.
Sickles was considered nuts, even by the North.
Do a little more reading. Ok, lets be honest.....a LOT more reading @bc3350
@@shellysmith1037 Sickles brought up 5 batteries to support his position so this claim that Sickles had no artillery support is false. Your thoughts?
Thank you. sir. This was a great lesson
The lack of grain and forage for the army chasing the Cheyenne and Sioux after the Battle of Little Big Horn is known as the "Horse Meat Campaign." Horses were breaking down by the dozens from lack of food and being eaten by the soldiers. At the time each horse required 6 lbs of grain and as much grazing as possible daily. The retreating Native Americans fired the prairies for hundreds of square miles, preventing grazing. It was a relief column of farmers and townspeople with a wagon train from Deadwood which saved the remaining horses, mules and men. The firing of the prairies also changed the weather. One official reading in a tent in July 1876 was 117 degrees, three weeks later four inches of snow fell on the army overnight: (On the Border with Crook).
"TAW-nee-town." hon!
Brown's information was fascinating, but his maps were absolutely lousy. I couldn't read the town names on my 32" TV even up up close to the screen. On another note, both my daughter, husband and their oldest are graduates of Centre College, the younger sister is a current sophomore, and I live in Danville, Ky, the location of the college. Brown is Center class of '71.
If Lee foraged his way to Gettysburg and was observed to have some 1000s of livestock fattening his troops - would that not factor into a counterattack? Nothing would be a greater incentive to rise from the defensive position and attack than the knowledge that a fine repast awaited the attacking federal troops if victorious. I suppose that troops feasting on captured reb supplies would be discouraged by leadership. But it clearly did not stop Grant from picking the Shenandoah valley clean later on.
Great job!
Poor Reynolds. Buford and him decided to fight like the devil. Reynolds bravery cost him his life.
I wonder if any Union general would have fared better if they were in Meade’s place 😮
Got to give Mr. Masterson credit for finding the evidence that would have put paid to Dan Syckles' career besmirching claims about Gen. George Mead post Gettysburg. Great content, but a might slow-in-the-flow.
This settles the controversy of why Meade could not pursue the enemy, all Armies have to eat!, exposure, stress and weather. Life eats other life. God Bless General George Meade. These horses must be somewhere in the soils; or paved over? Disagree with last signopsys, of Lee's advantage with food and medical on the retreat, he suffered too greatly at Gettysburg, and since the war to recover from the loss of life in the Army; and then Lincoln won in 1864.
Abraham Lincoln was a surveyor when he was 25 years old. I'm sure he understood the value in topographic knowledge, high ground and water sources during battles.
GREAT TALK. A bit heavy on the "I don't know if a commander ever faced what Meade faced". LOL. M'Kay. A guy named Paulus comes to mind. Just for starters.
I suppose McClellan is justified in his inaction. A single movement could have crippled his own army!
It took a man of action, foresight, and extreme organization to tackle Lee’s army. That man was Meade!
Takes Lincoln a half notch down for the Meade Gettysburg rebuke.
People forget that Lincoln never sent the letter to Meade, it was found afterward. Also, Lincoln never did replace Meade even though there was political pressure to do it.
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You always hear how General Sickles pushes too far forward….was it really that big of a mistake?
Gettysburg was that first Union victory in how long?
You’re closed minded to think if Sickles followed orders the outcome would’ve been better.
We will never know….
But, Sickles arrogance/whatever, played its role in the Federal victory.
I’m open to rebuttals.
Yeah I don't want my enemy spread out and in transit!??!???!
From like 35:00 onwards he literally spends 5 minutes saying: “He disobeyed orders and advanced anyways.”
Brevity being the soul of wit is lost on this guy. Extremely tedious lecture
If any one should have been arrested it was McClellan.
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#nikkobriteramos
Its true Meade did well in the fight. But all he had to do was counter-punch on the 3rd. Lee would have been forced to rout/skedaddle and/or lose his artillery guns or surrender. He was deep in hostile territory with no high ground for defense; little or no artillery ammo; depleted manpower; and, in big trouble overburdened with wounded. At the very least Meade should have made an attempt to test Lee's strength. Letting Lee retreat unharassed cost Meade his reputation.
My questions are, (and I don't know the answers): 1.) In what condition were his Cavalry? 2.) What intelligence did he have? 3.) In what state were his logistics? 4.) In what condition was his command structure? If any of these were in a state of disarray after the battle, then without the benefit of 160 years of hindsight, but based upon what Meade knew at the time, does this change our perception of the choices available to him?
Edit: spelling error.
Good questions. I guess one just has to go with what Lee expected. He fully expected a counter-punch but it never came. It's just as well to be cautious - the rebs had already had their fun messing with my distant relative General Milroy at Winchester on the way to Gettysburg. Although, that very depressing union defeat was likely a big part of why Lincoln replaced McClellan with Meade 3 days later just before Gettysburg. Meade had just suffered 3 attacks successfully - why push one's luck?@@jonpick5045
Monday morning quarterbacks.
The issue being that Meade was in as bad and in some ways worse shape then Lee by the 3rd. The Army of the Potomac is short on artillery and musket ammunition, it’s extremely short on rations, it’s extremely short on fodder, and the men have spent the entire last week either on forced marches, digging fighting positions or in combat. Meanwhile the Army of Northern Virginia has captured a large amount of the Army of the Potomac’s supplies both from depots such as Carlisle Barracks and wagon trains. The Army of Northern Virginia has also seriously compromised the Army of the Potomac’s lines of communications which make requisitioning and getting supplies in a timely manor to be able to effectively pursue the Army of Northern Virginia impossible.
@@kiloalphasierra Concise, well- written summary of closing comments of this video.
Lectern! You place your notes on and stand behind a lectern.a podium is the low platform you stand on. podiatrist is a foot doctor not a speech counselor. Eight feet is an octo podes,Greek for octopus. You stand on a podium.
Wow, just wow.
In the United States, "podium" and "lectern" can be synonyms in modern educated usage.
In modern usage, "podium" and "lectern" can be synonyms, as per the secondary definition below:
po•di•um \"po-de-em\ n, pl podiums or po•dia \-de-e\ 1 : a dais esp. for an orchestral conductor 2 : lectern
(c)2000 Zane Publishing, Inc. and Merriam-Webster, Incorporated. All rights reserved
Good research, much more in-depth than Sear's book (which of course, had a wider scope), but what a very poor verbal presentation.
Old Baldy!
I'm glad Dan Sickles took a major leadership role in organizing the GAR and battlefield memorials. Conversely, his desire to defend his inept 3rd Corp Generalship at Gettysburg, at the expense of a dead Meade is totally disgusting. All those fingerpointing memoirs, editorials, and Lost Cause writings become tiresome and unreadable.
M8 do you realise that we cannot hear what the questions from the audience are...? Sack your sound "engineer ". Apart from that I totally enjoyed your speech.
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Poor Meade had logistical problems and Lee was having a field day with way too much for his army, right?
Meade was not aware of the first day of Gettysburg, barely knew of the second day and he asked his generals if they didn't want to flee, and he learned about Pickett charge after it was repulsed.
Meade was so on top of everything than most if not all the troop movements each day, when battle was engaged, were done without him having a clue about it.
way too long to get message across.
That's the poy
Did you listen to the entire presentation?
This was about General Mead and how he pursued the battle of Gettysburg. I think it was covered very well.
lol if you want the cliff notes version then go to Wikipedia
This author is a hack