Good to know about Moving Kings. I did like The Netanyahus pretty well, so I was contemplating picking up something else by him, but wasn’t sure he had much to say. I have yet to pick up Kang despite having The Vegetarian on the shelf for ages.
I LOVE Kang's novels....i've read 3 that are published in English....filigree is a great description of her prose....and of course Marias one of my faves, ...all is novels are variations on each other, which for some can be tedious or repetitive...for me, brilliant gorgeous and as realized a world as any...and for me, the towering novel is his trilogy...i think you mentioned having read it......i'll watch the rest when home....cheers
That's a very fair summary of the strengths of the Marias. Thanks for getting me to read it. Steve was mightily impressed by Nevinson so I will have to get to that at some point. Good news about Han Kang's latest. I was intrigued by your thoughts about American Jewish authors but feel like a bystander and won't comment.
I enjoyed your discussion - I have only read Everything is illuminated by JSF which I remember quite enjoying but not read the others you mentioned. But I did think Horse walks into a bar by Grossman was amazing. I read Marias’ Heart so White 25 years ago! And I can still remember that opening chapter and I gave it 4 stars! The other book by him that I really enjoyed was Tomorrow in the Battle. His meandering style is characteristic but he does sometimes conjure some dramatic set pieces, and as you said he covers some interesting ideas. I haven’t read his trilogy yet and he has a new one just out, though sadly he died of Covid last year.
Illuminated is good, why? Because it's about European Jewry not New York! I have Tomorrow In Battle to read and am looking forward to Nevinson coming out in paperback. Didn't realise he'd died last year and from COVID too. Ugh
Very interesting discussion on Cohen's Moving Kings. I was looking forward to reading it when it eas first issued. Thought it might ne different and a bit faster moving too. But it left me a bit disappointed really. I couldn't see where it was going and maybe i was naively expecting more action or something.
Great reviews! Greek Lessons sounds right up my alley! (Almost took an online Ancient Greek class this summer). The way you described Marias’ writing remined me a bit of Thomas Bernhard. Even before you mentioned the Marx Brothers scene, I thought “Marx Brothers” lol. I hear you about how Vonnegut hasn’t aged as well as some other folks.
Yeah i have that one to read. I love the audacity of "The Great American Novel" and of course the panoramic scope of "American Pastoral". Thin king about it, he could have swapped those titles around for the two books!?
Glad Han Kang’s new novel was a success for you Mark, there is always the fear with an author you like that the next book won’t be as good. Great discussion on the Jewish American author question. I must admit I’d rather read Amos Oz or authors like Iddo Geffen or Eshkol Nevo than American Jewish voices although that’s more about reading outside of America generally than anything else.
I loved your discussion about the way this current generation of American Jewish authors is addressing their relationship to Israel in a way that the previous generation, perhaps with the exception of Roth, utterly failed to do. I spoke about the same thing when I reviewed The Netanyahus last year. I read Moving Kings first and found it fairly insufferable, although to this parent of Israeli conscripts those aspects of the novel rang true. I don't think the Israeli characters in the novel were ambivalent about having served in the occupation. I think it was part of their motivation to spend time on the other side of the world, but I agree that the connection between their work as movers in NY and their time in the IDF was clumsily presented. I heard Joshua Cohen speak last year and he is also fairly insufferable, but he is NOT a fan of the Netanyahus or any kind of right-wing Zionism. Nor is Safran Foer. Nor is Nicole Krauss. Nor is Nathan Englander. They are all the children of Roth AND David Grossman. I see this generation of American Jews having seen their parent refrain from foregrounding their religion, looking at a generation of Israelis that seen no need to apologize ever for being Jews. I think you would really enjoy The Netanyahus. It's a brilliant work that holds the pugnacious, right-wing Zionism of Benzion Netanyahu and its legacy in Bibi's Likud, up for ridicule, while simultaneously offering a withering look at assimilationist diaspora Jews who, even as they tried to emulate their WASPish neighbours, find themselves pointed at, patronized and excluded. The book is NOT a defence of any kind of Zionism and certainly not biblical Zionism. It's very current and it's very funny.
I never thought Joshua Cohen was pro-RW nationalism, but I just don't understand the tendency to want to talk about Israel in the form of Israelis abroad in America and then really fail to address any of the issues implicit in bringing the two together in juxtaposition. I do find it interesting what you say about American jews looking at Israelis who feel no need to apologise for who they are. I'm going to ponder on that further.
Marc, regarding your analysis of 'jewish writers,', I might suggest that you have chosen or by dint of poor luck, have read 3 writers (in my own opinion) of Jewish writers who, all three, are self-loving, privileged, wealthy folk...and for me, tediously borning....so, im going to suggest a couple of jewish writers are are completely different and exciting, challenging writers, in no particular order : a) Gary Shteyngart, b) Adam Levin, c) Nicole Krauss, d) michael Chabon, e)Nathan Englander, f) Dara Horn, by Rivka Galchen, and THE EXTRAORDINARY Deborah Eisenberg (PLEASE READ HER)....so, id say with all due respect your analysis is off basis...i think jewish american writers writing today are just as interesting and write powerful...but like all generations (regardless of religion, culture, background, gender, etc) are as complex....it is true that anti-semitism and the questions of anti-semitism and the shoah weight a huge weight and baring on the american writers of the 40s, 50, 60s, 70s and 80s....as well as the questions of Israel as well...but lots of those questions still exist...just as the complexity...just as the great israeli writers (grossman, Oz, Yehoshua, Appelfeld and Etgar Keret )are amazing but there are lots of shitty writers in israeli too....anyway....cheers :)
@@MarcNash i totally understand....lol..i know chabon....personally...he dated my best friend in hs's sister ;) hahahah...he was the reason i first went to U of Pitt, because i met him in hs...hahaha...and he tends to overwrite, but i did love The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay....but Eisenberg really is genius....btw, Safran Foer ex wife is a much much better, and much more interesting, novelist ...Nicole Krauss....anyway, give Eisenberg a shot :)
Corona\samizdat is a publisher...
Good to know about Moving Kings. I did like The Netanyahus pretty well, so I was contemplating picking up something else by him, but wasn’t sure he had much to say.
I have yet to pick up Kang despite having The Vegetarian on the shelf for ages.
I LOVE Kang's novels....i've read 3 that are published in English....filigree is a great description of her prose....and of course Marias one of my faves, ...all is novels are variations on each other, which for some can be tedious or repetitive...for me, brilliant gorgeous and as realized a world as any...and for me, the towering novel is his trilogy...i think you mentioned having read it......i'll watch the rest when home....cheers
That's a very fair summary of the strengths of the Marias. Thanks for getting me to read it. Steve was mightily impressed by Nevinson so I will have to get to that at some point. Good news about Han Kang's latest. I was intrigued by your thoughts about American Jewish authors but feel like a bystander and won't comment.
I enjoyed your discussion - I have only read Everything is illuminated by JSF which I remember quite enjoying but not read the others you mentioned. But I did think Horse walks into a bar by Grossman was amazing. I read Marias’ Heart so White 25 years ago! And I can still remember that opening chapter and I gave it 4 stars! The other book by him that I really enjoyed was Tomorrow in the Battle. His meandering style is characteristic but he does sometimes conjure some dramatic set pieces, and as you said he covers some interesting ideas. I haven’t read his trilogy yet and he has a new one just out, though sadly he died of Covid last year.
Illuminated is good, why? Because it's about European Jewry not New York! I have Tomorrow In Battle to read and am looking forward to Nevinson coming out in paperback. Didn't realise he'd died last year and from COVID too. Ugh
Very interesting discussion on Cohen's Moving Kings. I was looking forward to reading it when it eas first issued. Thought it might ne different and a bit faster moving too. But it left me a bit disappointed really. I couldn't see where it was going and maybe i was naively expecting more action or something.
Great reviews! Greek Lessons sounds right up my alley! (Almost took an online Ancient Greek class this summer). The way you described Marias’ writing remined me a bit of Thomas Bernhard. Even before you mentioned the Marx Brothers scene, I thought “Marx Brothers” lol. I hear you about how Vonnegut hasn’t aged as well as some other folks.
I think maybe Vonnegut's style isn't literary enough to stand the test of time?
Great discussion Marc, I think you might get a kick out of The Netanyahus. By the way, favorite P. Roth? Mine's Sabbath's Theater
Yeah i have that one to read. I love the audacity of "The Great American Novel" and of course the panoramic scope of "American Pastoral". Thin king about it, he could have swapped those titles around for the two books!?
Looking forward to my first Han Kang novel even more now.
Which one do you have, as I'm not sure this is necessarily the best place to start with her?
@@MarcNash Human Acts. I was able to get a copy for a dollar on my kindle.
@@BookishTexan Yeah, like all her books it's very good. But maybe not representative of her later books as not quite as filagree writing
Glad Han Kang’s new novel was a success for you Mark, there is always the fear with an author you like that the next book won’t be as good. Great discussion on the Jewish American author question. I must admit I’d rather read Amos Oz or authors like Iddo Geffen or Eshkol Nevo than American Jewish voices although that’s more about reading outside of America generally than anything else.
I don't think Han Kang could ever write a bad book Jo!
I loved your discussion about the way this current generation of American Jewish authors is addressing their relationship to Israel in a way that the previous generation, perhaps with the exception of Roth, utterly failed to do. I spoke about the same thing when I reviewed The Netanyahus last year. I read Moving Kings first and found it fairly insufferable, although to this parent of Israeli conscripts those aspects of the novel rang true. I don't think the Israeli characters in the novel were ambivalent about having served in the occupation. I think it was part of their motivation to spend time on the other side of the world, but I agree that the connection between their work as movers in NY and their time in the IDF was clumsily presented. I heard Joshua Cohen speak last year and he is also fairly insufferable, but he is NOT a fan of the Netanyahus or any kind of right-wing Zionism. Nor is Safran Foer. Nor is Nicole Krauss. Nor is Nathan Englander. They are all the children of Roth AND David Grossman. I see this generation of American Jews having seen their parent refrain from foregrounding their religion, looking at a generation of Israelis that seen no need to apologize ever for being Jews.
I think you would really enjoy The Netanyahus. It's a brilliant work that holds the pugnacious, right-wing Zionism of Benzion Netanyahu and its legacy in Bibi's Likud, up for ridicule, while simultaneously offering a withering look at assimilationist diaspora Jews who, even as they tried to emulate their WASPish neighbours, find themselves pointed at, patronized and excluded. The book is NOT a defence of any kind of Zionism and certainly not biblical Zionism. It's very current and it's very funny.
I never thought Joshua Cohen was pro-RW nationalism, but I just don't understand the tendency to want to talk about Israel in the form of Israelis abroad in America and then really fail to address any of the issues implicit in bringing the two together in juxtaposition. I do find it interesting what you say about American jews looking at Israelis who feel no need to apologise for who they are. I'm going to ponder on that further.
Marc, regarding your analysis of 'jewish writers,', I might suggest that you have chosen or by dint of poor luck, have read 3 writers (in my own opinion) of Jewish writers who, all three, are self-loving, privileged, wealthy folk...and for me, tediously borning....so, im going to suggest a couple of jewish writers are are completely different and exciting, challenging writers, in no particular order : a) Gary Shteyngart, b) Adam Levin, c) Nicole Krauss, d) michael Chabon, e)Nathan Englander, f) Dara Horn, by Rivka Galchen, and THE EXTRAORDINARY Deborah Eisenberg (PLEASE READ HER)....so, id say with all due respect your analysis is off basis...i think jewish american writers writing today are just as interesting and write powerful...but like all generations (regardless of religion, culture, background, gender, etc) are as complex....it is true that anti-semitism and the questions of anti-semitism and the shoah weight a huge weight and baring on the american writers of the 40s, 50, 60s, 70s and 80s....as well as the questions of Israel as well...but lots of those questions still exist...just as the complexity...just as the great israeli writers (grossman, Oz, Yehoshua, Appelfeld and Etgar Keret )are amazing but there are lots of shitty writers in israeli too....anyway....cheers :)
I don't fare well with Michael Chabon. I'll look up Eisenberg
@@MarcNash i totally understand....lol..i know chabon....personally...he dated my best friend in hs's sister ;) hahahah...he was the reason i first went to U of Pitt, because i met him in hs...hahaha...and he tends to overwrite, but i did love The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier & Clay....but Eisenberg really is genius....btw, Safran Foer ex wife is a much much better, and much more interesting, novelist ...Nicole Krauss....anyway, give Eisenberg a shot :)
@@bluewordsme2 Does she only write short stories?
@@MarcNash yes, only stories....and essays