Same! been playing mmorpg's since 2005 and have always preferred a sub fee over the "f2p" models. Every mmorpg that was "f2p" was extremeply "p2w". This is one of the worse models of p2w that exists as well and reminds me of those games back then. RIP we're in the dark age of mmorpg's.
@@Cavemanheartrock Well, why do you think there are milestones? And why is their goal to have a single global version? How naive do you have to be to think that they will remove the Korea pay 2 win elements? It will be more likely that more and more p2win elements will be added with the milestones. In a year at the latest, you will have the same version as in Korea. But the current players don't think that far. Instead of looking at the current version, you should look at the Korea version and the developers' aim of only having one global version in the long term.
It's all about the "likelihood to spend" now, whether it be cosmetics or progression. Both can eat you alive if the formula is right. The cosmetics are more dangerous for the wallet in this game.
Shiny game with mobile-game trading house. I'm guessing the upgrading/enchating/enhancing/crafting mechanic will also have chances with no pity system. So ultimately, only the whales will have access to fully capped gear.
Can you buy the materials to upgrade the gear though? Like I saw weapon growth stones. You can't buy the piece upgraded, but if you can buy the base and everything you need to do it, you kinda can though can't you? It just takes some extra steps in that case. So if that is the case, then I see the chance based upgrading system and get mobile game PTSD. Real money and chance based systems should never be combined if you have the least bit of respect for your playerbase. It screams I don't give a crap if you get value for your money or not, so that's when I'm out by default.
Thanks for mentioning that gear purchases from the AH can only be the base level 0 so whoever buys still has to put the work in.. A lot of creators don't mention that fact so peeps auto assume you can get fully upgraded purples and run around like headless chickens screaming P2W !
I saw something a while ago about a currency that lets you do dungeons. FTP players being able to run around 2 dungeons per day, and paying players around seven a day. Is that still a thing?
in a day you get 900 DCT points, once you enter the dungeon, you have to pay 450 DCT points to open the boss in the dungeon. and DCT points can be stacked up to 4500 DCT points. if you get blessing, you can stacked up to 6000. but you will recived 4500 DCT poin / day.
i can barely get the game to launch on steam but thats most likely a steam issue and not an issue with the game. Steam is such a shithole. only platform ive had trouble running games on.
The streamer that spent 50,000 to 100.000 to be the best and couldn't find orhers to pvp with as no one else was at his lvl in gear score. Diablo immortal
In general, paying raises your power floor quickly but the power ceiling is a slow grind from playtime for everyone paid or otherwise. So the pay to win aspects will be felt most on launch and taper with time, assuming things stay as they are now
Unless you're retired or play the game 8 hours a day to keep up. These games these days almost have no creativity to keep the gameplay interesting after 2 hours per day though.
@@MadDadQcwarframe is 1000% pay to Win lol just servers little to no purpose as it’s a pve game. You can literally buy everything with platinum bar 3 mods that are time gated
Took most of stuff from a failure game like New World (classes system, crafting, leveling, pvp) + more p2w. I see it is called "Lineage 3", yet it has 0 stuff from Lineage 2, which was one of the best mmos in terms of classes, leveling, progressing, crafting and pvp system. Game is a clutter of useless stuff, just to make you waste your time till u understand that it is just game of grinding same few things to upgrade your gear to be better at pvp which is pointless.
Anyone who has played a Ncsoft game can tell you.. This is going to be p2w. The more years it is playable, the more the p2w will go up. Every Ncsoft game has taken the same route. How to reach into your wallet and take a lot of money.
Pay to win for me is a pretty odd topic. People tend to throw this term around like it's nothing. A lot of games can be considered pay to win yet nobody argues what that winning means. In Lost Ark did I really care about whales? No, I just didn't accept obnoxiously high ilvl players in the party because I wanted to do the mechanics and not get carried, while in PvP gear wasn't a thing; the grinding was part of the game, I gave up on it because it was structured too much like a mobile game with short content that you had to repeat on multiple characters. You could argue EvE is p2w since you can just buy infusions for skills and just buy ships, yet nobody cares since the game is just a gankfest and you'll have schizo players that will obliterate you in lower tier ships, so nothing to win at. Same with Albion. This just looks like standard Korean mmo stuff, I don't know however if the game interests me that much since the class customization seems very bland at this moment. I don't see why I would play this over something like WoW, ESO or GW2. I am oddly enough more interested in Tarisland than this.
I think Pay To Win is a simple concept that many people tend to overlook and ignore for the sake of justifying their reason to play the game. There is no specific condition that needs to be met in order for the game to be P2W except for the reason that you are paying for advantages in the game. Most people argue and discuss the magnitude of each advantage in order to define if something is P2W or not, which is dishonest at best
They gave us a bunch of lucent for the open beta - if we spend that, do we keep anything that we purchase? I'm curious if I should spend it before I lose it... EDIT: I really hope they remove blueprints/recipes from the AH - that would balance it quite a lot in my opinion...
Everything in the Open Beta is getting wiped for release. Only the Founder's Pack and Drop Redemptions (like Twitch Drops) will be there on launch as far as I'm aware
Why they need to put lucent on shop why they cannot monetize on buy GAME TIME? Before the game time monetization is super good now the devs is super greedy.. the devs want to regain all their cost in just a month by milking players
becauae this makes more money short term, and its too hard ro compete with the subscription MMOs content scale. When income drops off, they will slam it with heavy P2W systems let it die and move on to the next game
P2W isn't a spectrum: a game either is or isn't P2W, people should stop trying to change this basic definition. Now that that's settled, we can discuss how bad the P2W is. Cheers
if only that would be the problem but the problem stays with the tap target ( fake action wanna be ) combat system. It will never take of because of that and i don't think they have time to change that.
Ok, but that's not a problem, but rather a matter of someone's taste. A big part of MMO community enjoys tab target, action combat and hybrid combat. I don't mind any of these as long as combat feels fluid.
What sucks the most in this type of progression is that, ok, it has p2w element, but it's an MMO so I can say fine, I'll commit some money for my char over time. But what happens with the balance? When meta shifts, when some weapons are going to be better than others, then you risk investing money in weak stuff. Now that's a deal breaker.
yea but u can do it in ways that makes it acceptable. example: u can sell the game for base price. they can add cosmetics, special ranks etc... instead they are selling the progression, this way if u are f2p u'll hit a wall eventually. unless ofcourse if u are a child and u do nothing else than play the game but be real, those players wont spend much.
![Quando Rondo - Life Goes On [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/eIf3fhMXAow/mqdefault.jpg)
On a scale from 1 - 10, how Pay-to-Win is Throne & Liberty?
1
1
Basically wow is more ptw
4, a live money auction house, rly bois? We accepting shit like this again in 2024?
1
Great explanation and very much appreciated. Seems balanced, in my opinion, especially if #3 under purchasable phases out over time.
Im local Korean resident. I do not recommend to play NC soft games^^
if they remove lucent and put monthly subscription with good updates then I will play it
Same! been playing mmorpg's since 2005 and have always preferred a sub fee over the "f2p" models. Every mmorpg that was "f2p" was extremeply "p2w". This is one of the worse models of p2w that exists as well and reminds me of those games back then. RIP we're in the dark age of mmorpg's.
@@Cavemanheartrock Well, why do you think there are milestones? And why is their goal to have a single global version? How naive do you have to be to think that they will remove the Korea pay 2 win elements? It will be more likely that more and more p2win elements will be added with the milestones. In a year at the latest, you will have the same version as in Korea. But the current players don't think that far.
Instead of looking at the current version, you should look at the Korea version and the developers' aim of only having one global version in the long term.
It's all about the "likelihood to spend" now, whether it be cosmetics or progression. Both can eat you alive if the formula is right. The cosmetics are more dangerous for the wallet in this game.
Shiny game with mobile-game trading house.
I'm guessing the upgrading/enchating/enhancing/crafting mechanic will also have chances with no pity system.
So ultimately, only the whales will have access to fully capped gear.
yes this game is going on the ignore list, and ppl where saying this a wow killer ROFL
Enhancing system is no-fail, so no.
Literally 1 minute in and heard enough. Paying for power is where i draw the line.
Can you buy the materials to upgrade the gear though? Like I saw weapon growth stones. You can't buy the piece upgraded, but if you can buy the base and everything you need to do it, you kinda can though can't you? It just takes some extra steps in that case. So if that is the case, then I see the chance based upgrading system and get mobile game PTSD. Real money and chance based systems should never be combined if you have the least bit of respect for your playerbase. It screams I don't give a crap if you get value for your money or not, so that's when I'm out by default.
Thanks for mentioning that gear purchases from the AH can only be the base level 0 so whoever buys still has to put the work in.. A lot of creators don't mention that fact so peeps auto assume you can get fully upgraded purples and run around like headless chickens screaming P2W !
I saw something a while ago about a currency that lets you do dungeons. FTP players being able to run around 2 dungeons per day, and paying players around seven a day. Is that still a thing?
in a day you get 900 DCT points, once you enter the dungeon, you have to pay 450 DCT points to open the boss in the dungeon. and DCT points can be stacked up to 4500 DCT points.
if you get blessing, you can stacked up to 6000.
but you will recived 4500 DCT poin / day.
As a previous dev how do I get the attention of the first descendant developers to fix Jaber since he’s bugged
Song and dance probably
you so full of crap
i can barely get the game to launch on steam but thats most likely a steam issue and not an issue with the game.
Steam is such a shithole. only platform ive had trouble running games on.
i have literally ran same games on another platform and i had no issues there. just steam always being a cuck.
who spends 30k in a Game to be Stronger than other people wtf
Tons of people dude…. Tons
Koreans. That's just their way of "playing" games.
The streamer that spent 50,000 to 100.000 to be the best and couldn't find orhers to pvp with as no one else was at his lvl in gear score.
Diablo immortal
Losers
Before I buy this game please tell me what percentage chance do I have to be at a player in pvp that spends 50k on day one, if we fight on day one?
ON day one? You’ll get smashed. But late game? It’s much more skill based then. It’s like pay-to-skip.
Is there a cap on power or does power increase infinitely as long as you spend like lost ark?
In general, paying raises your power floor quickly but the power ceiling is a slow grind from playtime for everyone paid or otherwise. So the pay to win aspects will be felt most on launch and taper with time, assuming things stay as they are now
@@DrybearGamersthis was brilliantly put, Ty for the explainer!
Cope immediately 😅 blending ptw ?? It either IS or ISN'T 😅
It IS.
Facts. This dude kept trying to make arguments for it not being pay to win.
All we need to know. Can you get all the gear and the items to max said gear without paying money from the store lol
in 2024 free to play always means pay to win.
free games arent free anymore.
Unless you're retired or play the game 8 hours a day to keep up. These games these days almost have no creativity to keep the gameplay interesting after 2 hours per day though.
Free to play players a just food for the whales. Period
Warframe f2p not p2w ❤️
@@scotty2344 In some/most cases, you can't even play 8-hours as they time-gate and cap everything.
@@MadDadQcwarframe is 1000% pay to Win lol just servers little to no purpose as it’s a pve game. You can literally buy everything with platinum bar 3 mods that are time gated
0:50 - 0:55 You're welcome.
One of the benefits of games woth heavy monetization- less children and snowflakes in the game
I kind of like how if you whale money it just goes to other players who got a lucky drop and threw the item on the market.
Took most of stuff from a failure game like New World (classes system, crafting, leveling, pvp) + more p2w. I see it is called "Lineage 3", yet it has 0 stuff from Lineage 2, which was one of the best mmos in terms of classes, leveling, progressing, crafting and pvp system. Game is a clutter of useless stuff, just to make you waste your time till u understand that it is just game of grinding same few things to upgrade your gear to be better at pvp which is pointless.
Anyone who has played a Ncsoft game can tell you.. This is going to be p2w. The more years it is playable, the more the p2w will go up. Every Ncsoft game has taken the same route. How to reach into your wallet and take a lot of money.
1 patch away from a full swipe game... nty
So on a scale from one to fuckn hard pass is it worth playing with the ptw horshit ?
If you hate any form of P2W trickery, this is HARD PASS.
Pay to win for me is a pretty odd topic. People tend to throw this term around like it's nothing. A lot of games can be considered pay to win yet nobody argues what that winning means. In Lost Ark did I really care about whales? No, I just didn't accept obnoxiously high ilvl players in the party because I wanted to do the mechanics and not get carried, while in PvP gear wasn't a thing; the grinding was part of the game, I gave up on it because it was structured too much like a mobile game with short content that you had to repeat on multiple characters.
You could argue EvE is p2w since you can just buy infusions for skills and just buy ships, yet nobody cares since the game is just a gankfest and you'll have schizo players that will obliterate you in lower tier ships, so nothing to win at. Same with Albion.
This just looks like standard Korean mmo stuff, I don't know however if the game interests me that much since the class customization seems very bland at this moment. I don't see why I would play this over something like WoW, ESO or GW2. I am oddly enough more interested in Tarisland than this.
I think Pay To Win is a simple concept that many people tend to overlook and ignore for the sake of justifying their reason to play the game. There is no specific condition that needs to be met in order for the game to be P2W except for the reason that you are paying for advantages in the game. Most people argue and discuss the magnitude of each advantage in order to define if something is P2W or not, which is dishonest at best
They gave us a bunch of lucent for the open beta - if we spend that, do we keep anything that we purchase? I'm curious if I should spend it before I lose it...
EDIT: I really hope they remove blueprints/recipes from the AH - that would balance it quite a lot in my opinion...
Everything in the Open Beta is getting wiped for release. Only the Founder's Pack and Drop Redemptions (like Twitch Drops) will be there on launch as far as I'm aware
Again BANG on thank so much for doing this I was worried about this game being Pay 2 win but I don't think its even closes really happy about this :)
Why they need to put lucent on shop why they cannot monetize on buy GAME TIME? Before the game time monetization is super good now the devs is super greedy.. the devs want to regain all their cost in just a month by milking players
Because there is a higher chance that people will try a free game and if they like it, they will buy skins and stuff.
I mean i wonder why won't they just add monthly subscription as ffxiv and just remove this p2w bs
becauae this makes more money short term, and its too hard ro compete with the subscription MMOs content scale.
When income drops off, they will slam it with heavy P2W systems let it die and move on to the next game
P2W isn't a spectrum: a game either is or isn't P2W, people should stop trying to change this basic definition. Now that that's settled, we can discuss how bad the P2W is. Cheers
Just another trash Korean MMO. It'll die in the US just like BDO and LA.
BDO never died lol
if only that would be the problem but the problem stays with the tap target ( fake action wanna be ) combat system. It will never take of because of that and i don't think they have time to change that.
Ok, but that's not a problem, but rather a matter of someone's taste. A big part of MMO community enjoys tab target, action combat and hybrid combat. I don't mind any of these as long as combat feels fluid.
14 fucking minutes to explain if it is PTW?
What sucks the most in this type of progression is that, ok, it has p2w element, but it's an MMO so I can say fine, I'll commit some money for my char over time.
But what happens with the balance? When meta shifts, when some weapons are going to be better than others, then you risk investing money in weak stuff. Now that's a deal breaker.
P2w.
you cant even buy the best stuff lmao
When you need to explain the level and difference currencies ..... Nope. i am out
15 fkin minutes to explain how ptw a game is? What a shitshow it seems like. And this is just the beginning. It will only get worse, never better.
Companies HAVE TO make money. Don't like it? Don't play.
yea but u can do it in ways that makes it acceptable. example: u can sell the game for base price. they can add cosmetics, special ranks etc... instead they are selling the progression, this way if u are f2p u'll hit a wall eventually. unless ofcourse if u are a child and u do nothing else than play the game but be real, those players wont spend much.
@@krisztianszommer3749cry more child
Defending p2w models by saying companies have to make money? Cope harder.
@TheyBenefit nobody is forcing you to pay or play though. I won't spend much but it's a business.
Why are people trying to boost this piece of garbish game?
seethe harder