I've been on the TT scene since the late 1950s. When I saw this pop up, I didn't have to think about the question, Zhang Yining was the immediate answer in my head.
Around 2006, Zhang Yining came here to UW-Madison to study. I had a friend who tutored her English. He asked her to play but she declined because she said she hated the sport. I’m sure she still enjoys it to some degree, but quite an interesting that she’s over burnt from TT. She also said that she does not wish her kids to play table tennis because it is too tough of a life.
Zhang Yining all the way. It's not only about their achievments, its about how she was basically destroying everybody. Sometimes you see a final against Wang Nan or guo yue or whatever other opponent have reached the final alongside her, you can consider a 4:2 win from Zhang Yining already close because a random 4:0 sweep in other finals were pretty common. It felt like a 1st league player playing a 2nd league player. Sometime the 2nd league player can win yes if many conditions are aligning but overall the 1st league player is just better and Zhang brought this concept into the top 5 of the world with her reigning on number 1 basically all the way from 2003 to her retirement in 2009 with only two weeks not being number 1. She also she retired at the age of 28. For Deng Yaping to succeed her in the same timeframe she would've to win basically every single tournament in the following 4 years.
My view is that Li Xiaoxia is the greatest female table tennis player of all-time, based on how undefeatable she was. Zhang Yining had an Achilles heel - Hong Kong's Jiang Huajun has beaten Zhang Yining more times than the other way round. Same goes for Wang Nan, who lost to Singapore's Li Jiawei quite a number of times, and Ding Ning, who had a lot of trouble with Mima Ito.
Can you recall Deng lost to a 30??? year-old ousted Chinese national player, He Zhi Li? He Zhi Li did not compete for almost 6 years and she handled Deng like a toddler. He Zhi Li used to compete for her native Shanghai province, she was a constant 2nd player to the Greatest of modern TT era, Cao Yan Hua. If we can manipulate time to set up a peak Cao Yan Hua competes against a peak Deng Ya Ping. Cao would handle Deng like a baby.
Thanks my friend for this great work. Players are forgotten as soon as their reigns are over. However videos such as these help the current generation aspire for greater things. Through this video one could clearly say that sun Yingsha, Cheng Meng, Wang Manyu and the rest are only scratching the surface of greatness.
I think one thing that you missed which plays into the discussion is that Deng Yaping was ranked world number 1 for 8 consecutive years from 1991 to 1999. She was also considered ‘too short’ to ever be good at table tennis at just 4’11 but proved them all wrong. I think even cutting her career short at 24, even had there been more world cups during her career she would have won many more also even if she had still retired early. Just some extra food for thought.
@@TableTenniswithAsh How on Earth the most talented player lose to an old lady who had not competed for 6 years? She lost convincingly to He Zhi Li. There is a legitimate argument that He Zhi Li would have been a much better player than Deng Ya Ping if she was not expelled from the Chinese National Team.
Deng Yaping is a grand slam champion having single titles: World Cup Hong Kong 1996, World Championships: Thiba 1991, Tianjin 1995, Manchester 1997, Olimpics: Barcelona 1992, Atlanta 1996. Considering all her team/doubles titles she was the most decorated table tennis player before Ma Long. That's why she's called the best table tennis player of XX century in China. Zhang Yining is a grand slam champion as well, she won 4 World Cups in singles, 2 Olympics and 2 World Championships, before Ma Long she was the second most decorated table tennis player, so she's the third right now
Been following tt for a long time and agree with the conclusion. Even when she retired, she did not taper , no other woman was in her class with consistency.
Zhang, followed by Deng..... it's more than stats or win numbers, it's how the players get those stats and wins. Zhang just put fear in her opponents, destroy everything.....
@@raulisaunamaki8512 din had problem with ito, her style just aint good enough to beat ito. Thats one of the reasons she had to retire. Sha sha is waaay better against any non-chinese player
@@yongdeng1813 Maybe so, but as we can see now that the players have learned the damn racket, he's not that good anymore. Kun ajattelen Ningin aikaisia vastustajia ne olivat kovia ja hän voitti ne kaikki.
Good analysis, but I’d argue Deng Ya Ping is the better player. She only had one opportunity to participate in the women’s singles World Cup, then retiring, otherwise, I’d think she will surpass Zhang’s 19 world titles because she was sitting at 18 when her career ended. Although she did not have the longevity, mainly due to her pip backhand style of play, she was the more dominant player in their respective eras. Zhang lost a lot more games in her earlier career to Wang Nan and even in her prime she had more loses than Deng did when she was in her Prime.
@@TableTenniswithAsh Also I forgot to mention, Deng Yaping is the first player to achieve what the Chinese team refer to as full grand slam in singles (Ma Long being the second to do so), winning gold in the Olympics, WTTC, World Cup, Asian Games, Asian Championships, Asian cup, World Tour Grand finals, Chinese national Championships, and Chinese National Games. Wang Nan is missing an Asian Championships title and Zhang Yining is missing an Asian Cup title. On top of that, the world tour grand final and World Cup singles event were both implemented right before Deng’s retirement, I believe she could’ve easily won more of those titles. Furthermore, she’s the longest highest ranking female player to date. Her 1st place ranking continued for almost a year after her retirement >_
We are comparing players from the modern TT era. Since the 1960s, the players mentioned are great in their own rights. Along with accomplishments, a good player must possess skills and mental toughness. They all have skills but mental toughness separates the greatest from the best. No player other than Cao Yan Hua deserves this title, GOAT. Cao Yan Hua demonstrated in the 1982 Asian Games and 1983 WTTC World Championships. The Chinese players completely faltered against a Korean player, Yang Young Ja. But poor Yang encountered the indomitable player from Shanghai, China, and naturally finished 2nd twice. For the video's author or readers, Cao Yan Hua started competing in the 1979 WTTC Singles. She was told to lose to one of her teammates. In the 1981 WTTC Singles Final, Cao lost to another Chinese player by design. This player had never beaten Cao Yan Hua before and after. Cao won the 1983 WTTC Singles because all other Chinese players dropped like flies and Miss Cao saved the Chinese team. Of course, Cao also won the 1985 WTTC Singles. She was then around 23 years old and indirectly forced to retire from the Chinese team. Because the Chinese TT Team then was controlled by a few incompetent as......les. They did the same thing to another player, He Zhi Li, in 1989.
Thank you for this comment. There are many ways to measure greatness, and overcoming adversity and mental toughness make some players achievements greater than others. I didn't go into Angelica Rozeanu's life, but she faced a lot.
Nonsense of the three chinese including short dengdoesn't win 6 world champion ships single consecutive, world women's double & worlds mixed double. Angelica Rozeanu. What talking you...nothing of the chinese come close. We have to take in mind the balls are much faster then now. World Cup or olympic doesnt meant anything. A world champion in all areas is an all round champion and not only a single events and brag. All these ladies or even guys doesn't need to go through wars isn't it? but the above has to. different level to begin with.
Rozeanu was unable to play table tennis for 4 years during the second world war due to her Jewish heritage. She definitely didn't have an easy route to the top for sure.
@@TableTenniswithAsh So please don't say any of the Chinese ladies are best. They ain't as fact proven above. Non of them have won more world champion in every category Single, mixed double, women doubles and teams. (Even discounting 4 years as u mentioned). The World Cup and Olympic is the chinese trying to make a case of themselves only to look good. But world championship is pinnacle nothing else. World Cup or Olympic is just an event nothing compare to world championship. Also to note, last time world champion have to play all events together at a go and it is more difficult physically and mentally than modern ladies who only have it broken in to small parts and slow plastic ball. So their feat ain't that great except mouth saying it is great. Likewise we can come to a conclusion as well that men are not Chinese is the best in terms of records. You can redo your video putting fact right without citing myths or self boasting which is untrue.
@@keekengho-jq1qe it is just an opinion. World Championships were held annually in Rozeanu's time so it would have been easier to win 6 consecutive world championships. 6 now would be over 12 years. There is definitely a case for Rozeanu to be considered the greatest but it depends on what you define as being great, how you assess the different eras.
@@TableTenniswithAsh Such opinion sound more like a scam or misplace myth which made the game low grade. As in people believe in nonsense rather than facts. There is no whose era bcos any eras doesn't belong to anyone. Everyone in the world has a fair chance. Not saying it is who's era but a time space where they ply their trade in. Everyones play within what is available to them. It is more difficult to play ALL events and win all events for consecutive 6 back to back or more worlds champs. It is all events not single only for the Chinese. It is different class... let alone 4 years of wars which non of the modern chinese man or women been through. There is no argument all.
@@keekengho-jq1qe agressive, rude and uninformed. no argument? Zhang YiNing has more titles, was dominant for longer and did it against actual professional players. She is possibly number 1 but there is definatly a discussion here
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I've been on the TT scene since the late 1950s. When I saw this pop up, I didn't have to think about the question, Zhang Yining was the immediate answer in my head.
Zhang Yining is unmatched
Absolutely!
Deng yaping
Around 2006, Zhang Yining came here to UW-Madison to study. I had a friend who tutored her English. He asked her to play but she declined because she said she hated the sport. I’m sure she still enjoys it to some degree, but quite an interesting that she’s over burnt from TT. She also said that she does not wish her kids to play table tennis because it is too tough of a life.
@@twenty4seven368 very interesting! Elite sport can be pretty brutal
Zhang Yining all the way. It's not only about their achievments, its about how she was basically destroying everybody. Sometimes you see a final against Wang Nan or guo yue or whatever other opponent have reached the final alongside her, you can consider a 4:2 win from Zhang Yining already close because a random 4:0 sweep in other finals were pretty common. It felt like a 1st league player playing a 2nd league player. Sometime the 2nd league player can win yes if many conditions are aligning but overall the 1st league player is just better and Zhang brought this concept into the top 5 of the world with her reigning on number 1 basically all the way from 2003 to her retirement in 2009 with only two weeks not being number 1. She also she retired at the age of 28. For Deng Yaping to succeed her in the same timeframe she would've to win basically every single tournament in the following 4 years.
My view is that Li Xiaoxia is the greatest female table tennis player of all-time, based on how undefeatable she was.
Zhang Yining had an Achilles heel - Hong Kong's Jiang Huajun has beaten Zhang Yining more times than the other way round.
Same goes for Wang Nan, who lost to Singapore's Li Jiawei quite a number of times, and Ding Ning, who had a lot of trouble with Mima Ito.
Zhang Yining is widely considered to be the GOAT in China.
Great video! For me it's Deng Yaping, because she was just so cool and dominant during her period. Objectively you're probably right tho
Thanks! Greatness is subjective, so everyone is right in a way. Deng Yaping is definitely cool.
Can you recall Deng lost to a 30??? year-old ousted Chinese national player, He Zhi Li? He Zhi Li did not compete for almost 6 years and she handled Deng like a toddler. He Zhi Li used to compete for her native Shanghai province, she was a constant 2nd player to the Greatest of modern TT era, Cao Yan Hua.
If we can manipulate time to set up a peak Cao Yan Hua competes against a peak Deng Ya Ping. Cao would handle Deng like a baby.
张怡宁 Zhang Yining , the emotionless attack machine .
Thanks my friend for this great work. Players are forgotten as soon as their reigns are over. However videos such as these help the current generation aspire for greater things. Through this video one could clearly say that sun Yingsha, Cheng Meng, Wang Manyu and the rest are only scratching the surface of greatness.
Thanks for your kind comment. Sun Yingsha is early into her career so she has time, perhaps?
@@TableTenniswithAsh time will tell
Either Zhang Yining or Deng Yaping. No contest aside from the two
I think one thing that you missed which plays into the discussion is that Deng Yaping was ranked world number 1 for 8 consecutive years from 1991 to 1999. She was also considered ‘too short’ to ever be good at table tennis at just 4’11 but proved them all wrong. I think even cutting her career short at 24, even had there been more world cups during her career she would have won many more also even if she had still retired early. Just some extra food for thought.
@@MHTableTennis Thanks for the comment. There is a case to be that she was the most talented player ever!
@@TableTenniswithAsh
How on Earth the most talented player lose to an old lady who had not competed for 6 years? She lost convincingly to He Zhi Li. There is a legitimate argument that He Zhi Li would have been a much better player than Deng Ya Ping if she was not expelled from the Chinese National Team.
@@benthekeeshond545 because the most talented woman deng is human doesnt mean that nobody can defeat you.
Deng Yaping is a grand slam champion having single titles: World Cup Hong Kong 1996, World Championships: Thiba 1991, Tianjin 1995, Manchester 1997, Olimpics: Barcelona 1992, Atlanta 1996. Considering all her team/doubles titles she was the most decorated table tennis player before Ma Long. That's why she's called the best table tennis player of XX century in China. Zhang Yining is a grand slam champion as well, she won 4 World Cups in singles, 2 Olympics and 2 World Championships, before Ma Long she was the second most decorated table tennis player, so she's the third right now
and now we will potentially have Sun Yingsha
@@jameswoods832 if she wins gold in Paris, she is on her way!
zhang yining, theres no debate
Deng is 2 times olympic gold 3 times world champion nad zhang no.
Been following tt for a long time and agree with the conclusion. Even when she retired, she did not taper , no other woman was in her class with consistency.
@@5441lance it amazes me that anyone can be so consistently better than everyone else for so long
Zhang, followed by Deng..... it's more than stats or win numbers, it's how the players get those stats and wins. Zhang just put fear in her opponents, destroy everything.....
Will Sun Yingsha equal - and even surpass - Zhang Yining's phenomenal record?
@@manasg.a.202 I have thought about this. If she wins Olympic Gold in Paris, it's possible. She has had an impressive last 12 months
Unlikely. But she is still young, theres a possibility.
I think Ding Ning would have won all of these in the end
@@raulisaunamaki8512 din had problem with ito, her style just aint good enough to beat ito. Thats one of the reasons she had to retire. Sha sha is waaay better against any non-chinese player
@@yongdeng1813 Maybe so, but as we can see now that the players have learned the damn racket, he's not that good anymore. Kun ajattelen Ningin aikaisia vastustajia ne olivat kovia ja hän voitti ne kaikki.
Chen Meng for sure.
@@ncrean66 she's in the conversation now!
Great thanks
Good analysis, but I’d argue Deng Ya Ping is the better player. She only had one opportunity to participate in the women’s singles World Cup, then retiring, otherwise, I’d think she will surpass Zhang’s 19 world titles because she was sitting at 18 when her career ended. Although she did not have the longevity, mainly due to her pip backhand style of play, she was the more dominant player in their respective eras. Zhang lost a lot more games in her earlier career to Wang Nan and even in her prime she had more loses than Deng did when she was in her Prime.
@@shingoukiex Deng Yaping is definitely a contender!
@@TableTenniswithAsh Also I forgot to mention, Deng Yaping is the first player to achieve what the Chinese team refer to as full grand slam in singles (Ma Long being the second to do so), winning gold in the Olympics, WTTC, World Cup, Asian Games, Asian Championships, Asian cup, World Tour Grand finals, Chinese national Championships, and Chinese National Games. Wang Nan is missing an Asian Championships title and Zhang Yining is missing an Asian Cup title. On top of that, the world tour grand final and World Cup singles event were both implemented right before Deng’s retirement, I believe she could’ve easily won more of those titles. Furthermore, she’s the longest highest ranking female player to date. Her 1st place ranking continued for almost a year after her retirement >_
Zhang Yining
We are comparing players from the modern TT era. Since the 1960s, the players mentioned are great in their own rights. Along with accomplishments, a good player must possess skills and mental toughness. They all have skills but mental toughness separates the greatest from the best. No player other than Cao Yan Hua deserves this title, GOAT. Cao Yan Hua demonstrated in the 1982 Asian Games and 1983 WTTC World Championships. The Chinese players completely faltered against a Korean player, Yang Young Ja. But poor Yang encountered the indomitable player from Shanghai, China, and naturally finished 2nd twice.
For the video's author or readers,
Cao Yan Hua started competing in the 1979 WTTC Singles. She was told to lose to one of her teammates. In the 1981 WTTC Singles Final, Cao lost to another Chinese player by design. This player had never beaten Cao Yan Hua before and after. Cao won the 1983 WTTC Singles because all other Chinese players dropped like flies and Miss Cao saved the Chinese team. Of course, Cao also won the 1985 WTTC Singles. She was then around 23 years old and indirectly forced to retire from the Chinese team. Because the Chinese TT Team then was controlled by a few incompetent as......les. They did the same thing to another player, He Zhi Li, in 1989.
Thank you for this comment. There are many ways to measure greatness, and overcoming adversity and mental toughness make some players achievements greater than others. I didn't go into Angelica Rozeanu's life, but she faced a lot.
Zhang yining.
It seems to be the consensus!
@@TableTenniswithAsh only those from her generation n those who saw her live can understand.
tin tin ho is my personal favourite
She's out there playing doing her thing for England/Britain!
She is your oersonal favorite, we talking about g.o.a.t here
@@yongdeng1813 I understand but I was just stating one that could be considered a candidate and my personal favorite.
Nonsense of the three chinese including short dengdoesn't win 6 world champion ships single consecutive, world women's double & worlds mixed double. Angelica Rozeanu. What talking you...nothing of the chinese come close. We have to take in mind the balls are much faster then now. World Cup or olympic doesnt meant anything. A world champion in all areas is an all round champion and not only a single events and brag. All these ladies or even guys doesn't need to go through wars isn't it? but the above has to. different level to begin with.
Rozeanu was unable to play table tennis for 4 years during the second world war due to her Jewish heritage. She definitely didn't have an easy route to the top for sure.
@@TableTenniswithAsh So please don't say any of the Chinese ladies are best. They ain't as fact proven above. Non of them have won more world champion in every category Single, mixed double, women doubles and teams. (Even discounting 4 years as u mentioned). The World Cup and Olympic is the chinese trying to make a case of themselves only to look good. But world championship is pinnacle nothing else. World Cup or Olympic is just an event nothing compare to world championship. Also to note, last time world champion have to play all events together at a go and it is more difficult physically and mentally than modern ladies who only have it broken in to small parts and slow plastic ball. So their feat ain't that great except mouth saying it is great. Likewise we can come to a conclusion as well that men are not Chinese is the best in terms of records. You can redo your video putting fact right without citing myths or self boasting which is untrue.
@@keekengho-jq1qe it is just an opinion. World Championships were held annually in Rozeanu's time so it would have been easier to win 6 consecutive world championships. 6 now would be over 12 years. There is definitely a case for Rozeanu to be considered the greatest but it depends on what you define as being great, how you assess the different eras.
@@TableTenniswithAsh Such opinion sound more like a scam or misplace myth which made the game low grade. As in people believe in nonsense rather than facts. There is no whose era bcos any eras doesn't belong to anyone. Everyone in the world has a fair chance. Not saying it is who's era but a time space where they ply their trade in. Everyones play within what is available to them. It is more difficult to play ALL events and win all events for consecutive 6 back to back or more worlds champs. It is all events not single only for the Chinese. It is different class... let alone 4 years of wars which non of the modern chinese man or women been through. There is no argument all.
@@keekengho-jq1qe agressive, rude and uninformed. no argument? Zhang YiNing has more titles, was dominant for longer and did it against actual professional players. She is possibly number 1 but there is definatly a discussion here