I remember reading Mo's writings on ratios a while back. Playing with drilling has been a pretty fun part of bowling. One of my favourites lately is on my Brutal Collision. I have a small angle sum (65*) combined with a low ratio (25:40). It really helps me keep the ball in front of me on wet/dry conditions when I still need to give away the pocket a bit, as I like to use it in situations where my big tank balls, like the Method Solid or Innovator Solid might be too strong or slow due to the covers. Really threw my PSO for a loop. Haha.
You can't stress enough the last part about the relationship with the "N" numbers and high/low tilt releases. As someone with a higher tilt release (approx 20-22 degrees), the "max flip" layout on the drill sheet has been awful on every ball I tried it on. Conversely, the "midlane hook" (40° x 4 ¼” x 75°) layout has been borderline amazing for me. It's nice seeing what I learned on my own is confirmed, and hearing the reason as to why that is. Ironically I just watched and old Mikey Pinel video yesterday and he said the same thing about high tilt bowlers should stay away from the max flip layout.
makes sense to me! with that level of tilt, you can shift the categories. midlane hook on the sheet becomes your smooth motion, smooth motion becomes your most versatile, most versatile becomes your max flip.
@@BowlingBuckosh I think a more in depth video about how tilt plays into selecting a layout would be really beneficial. A lot of league bowlers fall into this category, yet you never really see it discussed anywhere. I went to a pro shop seminar put on by another company and it was never discussed, other than "put the bowlers specs in this program and it will spit out the desired layout".
@@dustinfalconer8793 I don't think it matters a whole lot unless you go to extremes. Something like a 20 x 5 x 20 would probably be awful for most players, as would 120 x 5 x 60. I personally like the "short pin" layout of 90 x 2 1/4 x 45 (135°) but that is most likely because the short pin distance is stabilizing the core. I have been wanting to try that layout with a longer pin though, just to see what happens.
So good! It's been a few years since I've watched Mo's video and this was refreshing and educational thank you Mr. Buckosh I hope you do more of these in the future.
@@BowlingBuckosh Yes that little piece at the end of the video was really good and started to touch on it, which triggered my response. Anymore information on this topic would be greatly appreciated and could further explain how to better achieve optimal ball motion using different layouts.
I drilled a ball 20 x 4 x 20. Early rolling, smooth and lots of flare with a controllable back end. Liked It so much I drilled two more with Identical layouts.
I’m 6’2 and 245 lbs and strong I throw straight up the back and fast very fast. I have a press setup and drill my own balls I wish I knew a good drill to start up asap and max hook as I’ve never had a ball could roll out. I’m thinking pin under and the cg kicked a little.
Thanks for all the vids and info. Love the content. Quick question: my layout is 55x4.5x30 and I want more length, would you increase the drill angle or pin-pap?
It would be nice to see these balls on the lane, thrown by throbot. So several styles (low rev, high rev or speed dominant and rev dominant) can see its reaction on the lane.
If by apply, you mean do the after drilling numbers apply? No. The numbers after drilling depend on the internal densities of the ball in question, so apply specifically to the ball on the sheet. If you mean do the described motions and use cases apply, then yes, I do believe they, in general, describe the expected motion from any ball.
@@hackprefect yes. I should have clarified. The suggested layouts for sym/asym (usually page 2 of the sheets) have categories like "Maximum Flip", "Most versatile", etc
@@BowlingBuckosh I've been doing comparisons between the current in the box Radical drill sheets and the Radical drill sheets from some years back that breaks out high/medium/low track drill suggestions (radicalbowling.com/uploads/downloads/Layouts/radical-layouts.pdf ). I'm a very high track player. Should I favor the older sheet's drill patterns for High Track (Sharper Breakpoint, Midlane, Control) or the current in the box patterns (likely sticking to Max Flip/Most versatile/Smaller Hook)?
On an Asym ball longer pin to PAP distances cause the ball to roll forward more, and shorted distances create more side to side roll. Longer distances flare more as well. The N dictates the shape, the pin to pap adjusts the overall continuation of that shape.
@@deadpolymers3416 This is true on a symmetric ball but not quite the same on asymmetrical. Longer pin-pap on asym cause the ball to roll forward sooner.
@@dustinmabie4909my fault, I read my notes wrong when replying. I literally quoted the sym pin to pap reactions. I’ll edit my response when I get a few minutes.
the pin is measured from the grip center, it's in the 7: 30 clock position (45* from the grip line, next to the thumb). the pin distance from the grip center determines flare. 3.5" (smoothest) to 5" (strongest). MB in the area of the fingers for stronger motion, and right of the fingers for sharper motion
So so interesting but I’m lost a bit understanding all this. I do kinda understand some but the rest is way out of my league but I will watch more of your videos thanks for all
they are a system that work together. surface and cover dominate the transition from skid to hook, and layouts dominate the shape and distance of the hook phase.
the pin is measured from the grip center, it's in the 7: 30 clock position (45* from the grip line, next to the thumb). the pin distance from the grip center determines flare. 3.5" (smoothest) to 5" (strongest). MB in the area of the fingers for stronger motion, and right of the fingers for sharper motion
@@BowlingBuckosh I did not know it was possible to place the pin further away from the Bridge than 3 3/8". So it is safe to go to 4 or even 5 inches away? And when you say 5" is strongest, do you mean the most flare, or the most backend reaction? Thanks.
@@nordattack this is from the grip center, not the bridge center, just so we're clear. 5" will flare more than 3.375", and can be stronger with the MB near the fingers, or sharper with the MB in line through the grip center.
Great update to the original Rule of N video. I never understood how the pin to spin line worked before, but now can I see it.
I remember reading Mo's writings on ratios a while back. Playing with drilling has been a pretty fun part of bowling. One of my favourites lately is on my Brutal Collision. I have a small angle sum (65*) combined with a low ratio (25:40). It really helps me keep the ball in front of me on wet/dry conditions when I still need to give away the pocket a bit, as I like to use it in situations where my big tank balls, like the Method Solid or Innovator Solid might be too strong or slow due to the covers. Really threw my PSO for a loop. Haha.
Excited to see Bryan as he gains more confidence and comfort in front of the camera
Glad to see you in videos Bryan!
Thanks Bryan. Lots of great info.
You can't stress enough the last part about the relationship with the "N" numbers and high/low tilt releases. As someone with a higher tilt release (approx 20-22 degrees), the "max flip" layout on the drill sheet has been awful on every ball I tried it on. Conversely, the "midlane hook" (40° x 4 ¼” x 75°) layout has been borderline amazing for me. It's nice seeing what I learned on my own is confirmed, and hearing the reason as to why that is. Ironically I just watched and old Mikey Pinel video yesterday and he said the same thing about high tilt bowlers should stay away from the max flip layout.
makes sense to me! with that level of tilt, you can shift the categories. midlane hook on the sheet becomes your smooth motion, smooth motion becomes your most versatile, most versatile becomes your max flip.
@@BowlingBuckosh I think a more in depth video about how tilt plays into selecting a layout would be really beneficial. A lot of league bowlers fall into this category, yet you never really see it discussed anywhere. I went to a pro shop seminar put on by another company and it was never discussed, other than "put the bowlers specs in this program and it will spit out the desired layout".
What about angles that don't equal 90 degrees? Like well say 50 × 5 × 60. Or 70 X 5 X 30?
@@dustinfalconer8793 I don't think it matters a whole lot unless you go to extremes. Something like a 20 x 5 x 20 would probably be awful for most players, as would 120 x 5 x 60. I personally like the "short pin" layout of 90 x 2 1/4 x 45 (135°) but that is most likely because the short pin distance is stabilizing the core. I have been wanting to try that layout with a longer pin though, just to see what happens.
So good! It's been a few years since I've watched Mo's video and this was refreshing and educational thank you Mr. Buckosh I hope you do more of these in the future.
excellent information
Great information. Just for fun it would great to get a video that explains core migration and how to take advantage of it, based on a bowler’s specs.
thanks! the discussion on tilt at the end touches on this. may we can talk in more detail on this in the future.
@@BowlingBuckosh Yes that little piece at the end of the video was really good and started to touch on it, which triggered my response. Anymore information on this topic would be greatly appreciated and could further explain how to better achieve optimal ball motion using different layouts.
Great Video!!
I drilled a ball 20 x 4 x 20. Early rolling, smooth and lots of flare with a controllable back end. Liked It so much I drilled two more with Identical layouts.
I’m 6’2 and 245 lbs and strong I throw straight up the back and fast very fast. I have a press setup and drill my own balls I wish I knew a good drill to start up asap and max hook as I’ve never had a ball could roll out. I’m thinking pin under and the cg kicked a little.
Thanks for all the vids and info. Love the content. Quick question: my layout is 55x4.5x30 and I want more length, would you increase the drill angle or pin-pap?
It would be nice to see these balls on the lane, thrown by throbot. So several styles (low rev, high rev or speed dominant and rev dominant) can see its reaction on the lane.
Would the small angle ratios smooth out the wet dry house patterns better?
What does faster transition mean? Smaller hook phase?
in this context, the full transition through all 3 phases of ball motion - skid, hook, roll.
What range of angles would work for a high track player? I'm currently using 60x5x20, but I still go over my thumb periodically
Cool video talk tech bowling ball
Do Radical's drill sheets for Suggested Layouts for Sym/Asym Cores apply to all balls or just Radical balls?
If by apply, you mean do the after drilling numbers apply? No. The numbers after drilling depend on the internal densities of the ball in question, so apply specifically to the ball on the sheet. If you mean do the described motions and use cases apply, then yes, I do believe they, in general, describe the expected motion from any ball.
@@hackprefect yes. I should have clarified. The suggested layouts for sym/asym (usually page 2 of the sheets) have categories like "Maximum Flip", "Most versatile", etc
the general trends will apply, but the differences in drilled numbers will be different, sometimes substantially different.
@@BowlingBuckosh I've been doing comparisons between the current in the box Radical drill sheets and the Radical drill sheets from some years back that breaks out high/medium/low track drill suggestions (radicalbowling.com/uploads/downloads/Layouts/radical-layouts.pdf ). I'm a very high track player. Should I favor the older sheet's drill patterns for High Track (Sharper Breakpoint, Midlane, Control) or the current in the box patterns (likely sticking to Max Flip/Most versatile/Smaller Hook)?
My question is what happens when you make the pin distances different? Longer than 4'' or shorter than 4''
I thought the 3 to 4 range was around the dead zone. Where you get inconsistent roll.
On an Asym ball longer pin to PAP distances cause the ball to roll forward more, and shorted distances create more side to side roll. Longer distances flare more as well. The N dictates the shape, the pin to pap adjusts the overall continuation of that shape.
@@deadpolymers3416 This is true on a symmetric ball but not quite the same on asymmetrical. Longer pin-pap on asym cause the ball to roll forward sooner.
@@dustinmabie4909my fault, I read my notes wrong when replying. I literally quoted the sym pin to pap reactions. I’ll edit my response when I get a few minutes.
@@deadpolymers3416 Not an issue, we all make mistakes. I'm on mistake 17 and it's not even lunch😁
Hello Bryan, I am a full roller. Are there any different layouts I can try? Thank you.
the pin is measured from the grip center, it's in the 7: 30 clock position (45* from the grip line, next to the thumb). the pin distance from the grip center determines flare. 3.5" (smoothest) to 5" (strongest). MB in the area of the fingers for stronger motion, and right of the fingers for sharper motion
So so interesting but I’m lost a bit understanding all this. I do kinda understand some but the rest is way out of my league but I will watch more of your videos thanks for all
Which one is more important? Layout or surface.
they are a system that work together. surface and cover dominate the transition from skid to hook, and layouts dominate the shape and distance of the hook phase.
@@BowlingBuckoshThank you for that. I’m envisioning that w my hand in the air. I can see it
Would love to see these balls on the lanes
Is their a technique like this for Full Roller layouts?
the pin is measured from the grip center, it's in the 7: 30 clock position (45* from the grip line, next to the thumb). the pin distance from the grip center determines flare. 3.5" (smoothest) to 5" (strongest). MB in the area of the fingers for stronger motion, and right of the fingers for sharper motion
@@BowlingBuckosh I did not know it was possible to place the pin further away from the Bridge than 3 3/8". So it is safe to go to 4 or even 5 inches away? And when you say 5" is strongest, do you mean the most flare, or the most backend reaction? Thanks.
@@nordattack this is from the grip center, not the bridge center, just so we're clear. 5" will flare more than 3.375", and can be stronger with the MB near the fingers, or sharper with the MB in line through the grip center.
Id love a video on a bowlers sweet spot.. i know its on wiki but i get muself confused
Now you drill them up and throw all 3 balls and let us see the difference of the ball Motion.
Keep up the good work
I get lost in the numbers 😔
So if I throw 20 mph @480 rpm which route would be a good start for me?