Electrical Audio How-To: Overdubbing and Punching In On Tape
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- Опубликовано: 19 апр 2020
- Wizened Studio Sage (TM) Steve Albini shows how to punch-in on a tape recording, and some of the principles behind the operation and useful practices, during a session with Wizened Music Sage (TM) Tim Midyett's project Mint Mile.
You can find the new board game The Wizened Sages of Chicago Music (TM) in our online gift shop. 1.8% off during pandemic. Look for the digital version by Zynga in 2022 on iPhone and Android.
www.electricalaudio.com
Shot and edited by Jeff Perlman.
![Recording Drums With Steve Albini [Third Circle Recordings]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kmP9z-xTRz0/mqdefault.jpg)
As a fifteen-year veteran of watching RUclips videos of Steve Albini I can say with confidence that these videos are good.
Satisfying.
rewatching all of this man's videos. can't believe he's gone. rest in peace, steve albini
Same here. It feels unreal that he's no longer with us.
“This prevents me from making catastrophic errors. I very much like this feature, because I am very prone to error.” My new favorite quote
I can't help but think Steve's going to start speaking in Fake Italian at any moment
Steve Albini is seriously one of the coolest human beings alive
Steve: "What are we gonna wear to the Grammy's?"
T-Bone: "...Nice...a nice dress"
two men in one dress.
What a goddamn treasure this man was. I love seeing his goofy side so much. Rest In Peace Steve Albini ❤
Albini is so full of raw punk energy.
This is the most playful I've ever seen Steve Albini
True he has been enjoying it immensely lately
for real, he looks so happy. Good for him!
He is more bubbly in his midlife, but he always seemed playfully funny to me going back to the days of the Big Black liner notes. Love the bands, but those liner notes hooked me on Steve.
whoa!!! where did Steve go!?? HE MOVED SO FAST!!!!!
This sentence has gained a new meaning.
@@Lamadesbois Live fast. Die young as they say.
He was a one of a kind speedster.
Oh man.. Love this video. RIP Steve. :(
Holly crap! That's Tim from Silkworm! He sounds so different!
I'm so happy for Steve and electrical finally doing this content in a first party fashion
I can’t believe these videos are free and the channel only has 27K subs. Steve Albini and Eric Valentine’s channels are goldmines for recording and mixing knowledge.
RIP to an absolute legend
Steve is so well spoken, sounds like a professor.
With that being said, thank God for digital even if analog sounds better. That process looks like an absolute pain in the ass.
Love how Steve always wears coveralls. A true professional!
Just like Pete Townsend in the mid days, very serious 🧐
Seeing an artisan at work in his studio, surrounded by the tools he knows. Steve Albini is a dedicated workman in his element. This is great.
Thanks a lot for this as usual very usefull (and funny) tutorial. I didn't know Steve was a so talented stunt man !! I really hope you guys and your families are safe during this weird periode. (Please, manage to keep yourselves away from this unmusical virus)... Take care !! Best regards from France !
I imagine these vids are extremely helpful for those recording on analog equipment, but outside of the intended purpose this one is simply ADORABLE. I love it, and I love Steve n Tim ❤
It’s always a pleasure seeing Steve have fun.
Thanks Steve and Tim!!
7:30 I like how Tim shakes his head lol
Love this!! Thanks Steve!
I love this. Steve is so down to earth.
Great videos!
I LOVE this video!
This is awesome. Thank you Steve
This is great Steve !!
Fantastic
Brilliant stuff, thanks to ya both.
Really cool!
These vids are so good!
very interesting! thank you
Greatr work and great song! Thank you, always.
Steve, your the best. Thanks
“On your bike!” I suspect Steve is quoting the great Tony G here.
Thanks for the vids Steve, from a fellow poker and music lover.
Nice one.
Love the cheese factor
Steve is hilarious! I never knew!
Love these videos man 🎤🎸🎸🎤
BEST SHOW EVER! see you at the Emmies ;)
Steve’s such a character, I love him ❤️
This channel is audio gold dust
Steve is the prince of the punch-in. Saved me many times!
Cheers Steve
Really enjoyed this audio engineering guide and im not even in the field! Please keep making them Steve!
Thumb up! Love the Sesame Street Style video cuts
Thank you so much for taking the time to do this Steve!. You have been in my brain for most of my "career" with your views on producing. And now I have an A827 with no idea what I am doing, so this is so useful to me!
How did this entire series escape my notice? Great explanation of the tape machine operation.
Steve rules.
Pleas do more!!!!! For example How-to: print an effects while mixing on tape!
I have leaned more In the last few days watching all Steve's videos than i did at college and 20 odd years of recording my band/ my old band & myself. I'm self taught & a terrible teacher. Steve was not. Damn it.
Sleep deep,
narky prince.
Enjoy the complete lack of bullshit.
Cutting T-Bone off at 10:10 was a masterpiece of comedic timing.
Sick!
Really nice to have discovered this channel totally randomly the same day I decided to invest for the producer I work with in Ecuador to buy a tape recording unit! Although the model differs, I am guessing that some of these great word of advices may apply to it, I will share the link to this channel with him. We got the TEAC TASCAM 2340 series 1556, it may not be at the level of what you own, but I am reading good reviews about it and it may be a great way to start with such type of equipment I guess (he is used to this type of equipment more than me and he was telling me how good it was). Thanks Steve for sharing your great knowledge, you are awesome! Make sure that you and your loved ones stay safe and healthy during these crazy pandemic times! Best Regards from your friend François in Montreal, Canada! 🎼🃏🎶🎵💯🌠
Now this is good information!
I would like to understand work flow for tracking and mixing with an analog console using “tape” inputs. My console has relay switching for “MULTI, 2TRACK, and MIXDOWN”. I wish I knew the designer’s concepts regarding this.
Fun!
The Paesano needs his own TV SERIES !!😁👍
Lord Albini can punch-in me any day.
What a buncha' goofs. Love Electrical Audio.
very good thank you steve !! and now video for recording guitar ? :-)
I was wondering about this... So a consumer grade tape machine's erase head I'm guessing doesn't compare to this pro-level tape machine. I had a TEAC 3340S years ago and pretty sure overdubs on tape tracks that had already been recorded on would contain artifacts of the original takes. What would be really helpful would be a video discussing how to interpret microphone specs. Like what is THD, what is Sensitivity, polar patterns, all that... Or a video on how to hook up a compressor or outboard gear to a mixer...
Hey Steve Albini, you’re cool
Awesome , didn't know studers had that preset feature. I know you've touched upon the mic locker in other videos but a really in depth video on mics and possible uses would be real cool.
Thanks for the suggestion! We're rebuilding our website at present, and are hoping to integrate some content on each of the mics (audio samples, namely, but video is a good idea).
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial
Eccellente! Hope you guys are doing well thru current events.
works also very well with Tascam MS-16 for all those semi pros out there :)
I just picked up a Sony tc 252 and a bunch of 7” and three videos are based af
The Julius Sumner Miller of the audio engineering world.
mint mile rule so much
“On yer BIKE!”
Nice. Keep 'em coming if you can. Would you entertain a request for a Tracking tutorial?
Thanks for the suggestion. That's a pretty big topic for the RUclips attention span. We have started work on a book that will cover tracking in extreme, excruciating depth.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial I'd expect nothing less than extreme, excruciating depth.
I duno if you've seen this : ruclips.net/video/p-uziD9AvrI/видео.html
@@kieranniemand2939 I have seen it, thanks. It's a great, but what I meant was I'd like a similar tutorial on tracking rather than mixing.
Its my dream to do some recordings there and goddamn imma do it before i die
Hi!
1. Does the talent hear only input or input AND tape prior to punch-in ?
2. Does the console gets split? One part to inputs another part to tape returns ?
I don't know
Are there cases where you have to worry about the distance between the erase head and the record/monitor head? I guess if you don't have a lot of air before the punch, then you'd need to be really precise on the timing of hitting record.
see the reply above.
"..what are we gonna wear to the Grammy's?.." classic!
ruclips.net/video/uewOIcsqvIU/видео.html
This is good one. If you do your recording in repro by accident, how would you put it back in time.
You can't, unfortunately. At the mixdown stage, if your machine has individual control of the heads, you could have all the "normal" channels set to play back from the repro head, and the overdubbed channel set to play back from the sync head. That will put everything in sync for the moment, but it will still be in the wrong place on the tape and you'd need to do that whenever you played that master.
@@stevealbini402 It all depends on how many tracks you have available. If you do it is possible to get it back into time. Take the tape to the end and turn it upside down and them imagine the desk is the opposite way way round and bounce the mistake to another channel in repro and bingo, its back in time. Were always leaning. Peace
@@simonirvine1628 Ah yeah, that works if you can suffer the generation.
@Steve Albini Steven, there will be only one or two that will know, plus you have room to tweak any issue if there is any issue. The mass's will not know, nor care if they did. Your a good guy, I'm on your side....
Do you still have this set?
What’s the osciloscópe for ?
00:11 LOL!
Hey, I'm Ron ... why is the signal being monitored by the oscilloscope? What is it telling you?
Steve, is the Klark Tech in the rack the one from your basement studio?
Steve doesn't "do RUclips," but... we have 2, I imagine one is from the old basement studio, yes!
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial I figured as much. I can't imagine Steve would have abandoned his original one.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial How long ago did Steve quit smoking? Over 5 years here.
i just want to annoy steve with my knowledge of his work
"What are we going to wear to the Grammy's?" LMAO
What about the inch between the erase and record heads? Won't that limit the absolute accuracy possible for the punch in? i.e. assuming one inch exactly and 30ips tape speed then 1/30th of a second (33ms) between the erasure of the old and the insertion of the new program material?
Yes, you need to slightly anticipate the moment you want the punch-in to begin, but this becomes second-nature in practice. Modern tape machines all have some compensation for this physical gap between heads. It's built into the timing of actions when you punch in or out. Each company implemented it in a different way, but when you hit "record," a whole little ballet gets underway. First the erase head is energized, but not all at once, there's a ramping-up of the erase current, which causes a soft edge to the erased boundary, like a short fade-out. Next, the tape travels an inch or so and the record head is activated by sending the audio and bias signal through it, but these also "ramp" on a timing cycle determined to cover the little gap you describe. When you punch out, the same thing happens in reverse, first the erase head tapers off then the record signal tapers off. In the crudest implementation the edges of these regions are harder than the more elegant ones, but the Studer timing cycle is particularly forgiving, covering many engineering indelicacies. There is a button to defeat this timing network, called "delay inhibit," and for some very tight punches in rhythmic material this will sound better in one mode or another. I normally leave the inhibit on, and if the punch sounds weird then I'll try it the other way. We actually had a whole section on this in the video but we took it out because it was arcane and took a very long time to adequately describe.
@@stevealbini402 thank you very much for that detailed explanation! 🙏
@@stevealbini402 A slightly less modern machine, the Stephens 821b, does the fade in and out on erase and bias at the same time, but that particular machine puts the erase and record head as physically close as possible. The backs of the heads are almost touching, it still punches well, the anticipation has to be about 1/10 of a second on that machine for the bias/erase ramp. It’s very machine specific, my Ampex 440c has several inches between erase and record and punches on it really suck. If I need a punch point to be very precise (say, punching in a snare hit or a single bass note), I like to set the punch-in on my Lynx synchronizer, then I’ll adjust the punch points for that delay. If I am a bit nervous about getting that delay compensated for (the punch is in a tight spot), I’ll record the new part on a two track half inch that is synced up, then do the real punch off line using the Lynx using a punch in point that’s a bit too late, then adjusting it to get it ‘just right’.
Could someone please name the model of the mic Tim was singing into? Thanks in advance.
It's a Neumann cmv 563 with an m7 capsule.
@@ElectricalAudioOfficial Thanks.
Is it possible to set up an auto punch on an 820 or 827 so I can punch when Steve Albini goes out for a smoke and I want to record myself
Steve does not smoke, but yes.
What is the oscilloscope monitoring?
The stereo output of the desk, in a Lissajous pattern.
I’m curious, how is that part to be punched in erased, with the erase head ahead of the record?
It makes sense think of the orientation of the heads and which direction the tape runs
@@joelglanton6531 I get that, just wondering how/when the erase engages, when dropping in real time.
Because it's Albini: I dunno about analog tape. I don't think the sound is as warm as wax or foil cylinders, dude. Sure it has multitrack capabilities, but I still work by mule driven multi- wax or foil cylinder synchronization.
One Badass Musical Human - A Mixture Of Uber Serious, Yet - Ahh Feck It, It'll Do : - All At The Same Time......?. *Watch + Learn Kids!!*.
By the way. How the tape machine is patched (I mean wired up) with the mixing console? As far as I understand what You are talking about I guess that an input of the tape is connected to some kind of insert but placed after 'regular insert', preamp, EQ, bus routing but before main bus fader. I am right? Some analogue consoles I worked with, have direct output but this is record only output w/o any return. Here You can either listen to the signal coming from the source mike or listen the recording of this mike immediately just by pressing a button on a remote.
Our desks are inline architecture, meaning each channel has two full paths, a "channel path" and a "monitor path." Each channel has multiple inputs, and you have some facility for choosing which path gets what input. The channel path takes a mic or line input and ends at the multitrack busses and direct outputs (mic inputs go through the mic preamp). The monitor path takes a line input and ends at the 2-mix, which is normalled to the control room speaker outputs, and any stereo recorders in the studio (stereo tape machine, CD recorder, DAT deck, and cassette recorder).
By default you are monitoring the two-mix, which is fed by the line inputs coming back from the multitrack (tape or DAW). You can listen to the input "source" on our consoles by using the "channel solo" button, which replaces the 2-mix with a channel or channels that are soloed straight from the channel path input.
Is Steve medicated?
I feel like he's gotten progressively less and less guarded ever since the Lil Bub video, there's no way he's not a bit of a goofy fuck in real life and it's nice to see a lil bit of it and learn some interesting shit at the same time.
The overdub explanation with the two heads makes complete sense to me, but the punch in use of the two heads....I can't understand 😂
Bear in mind: there are three monitoring sources/ modes that you can select globally or locally (channel-by-channel): input- whatever is fed to the input of the channel is fed straight to the output, bypassing the tape completely, you don't hear the recording from tape; sync, where you monitor from the record head, though you CANNOT monitor from the record head and record to that head at the same time; repro, where you monitor from a dedicated playback head.
Usually when you are recording, you use a mode called "auto-input" monitoring (same thing in Pro Tools) where when you are recording, the machine automatically switches the channel you are recording to "input" monitoring. If you are monitoring from the repro head and start recording, you will hear a delay because the musician will be monitoring input for the channel they are recording, but the remaining channels are delayed because of the physical separation between the record (sync) and play (repro) heads.
So we punch and overdub with "sync" monitoring for all channels that are not being recorded. This way, there is no delay between input and tape playback because we are monitoring from the record head. In auto-input monitoring mode, the machine automatically switches an armed track from sync monitoring to input when you hit "record," and back to sync when you stop recording. You could also just leave that track in input monitoring, but you the engineer may not know exactly when to punch, and monitoring the punch in that way you won't have a sense of whether it was successful, because you won't know if it blended with the original performance you are punching onto.
Hope that helps.
Steve drives a White 1974 Dodge Tradesman van.
couple of things, & far be it from me to... well, whatever.... but these things bothered me-
why not have the musician hear a direct feed of his contribution *mixed* with the signal from the sync head all the way up to when you drop in, so's he can find pitch & match his delivery nuances to the previous take for a greater period? especially a singer who may be using a particular part of his voice's character & struggle to match it in the short time he can hear it back....
also, you don't discuss the timing of the erase head being switched on & off during *manual* punch-ins..... if they're automated (& locked to smpte, say) then the erase head can be ramped up "an inch or so" ahead of the record head being energised & you'll get a clean transition. at 15 ips the difference would be perceptible, at 30ips a bit less so. maybe less of an issue with some sounds than others, of course.
Our multitrack machines (Studer A820) have a delay inhibit feature that compensates for the delay/ gap between the erase and record heads. If you're punching on a machine that doesn't have this, yeah, you'd have to learn the timing of the punch, which would vary based on the speed you're recording at, etc.
In order to setup a punch to allow a musician to hear the old performance and the new performance simultaneously, you'd have to erase the portion of the performance being punched on the old track, or place that track in input at the moment of the punch so the performer wouldn't hear both at the moment of the repair (most of the time performers don't want to hear material that needs to be repaired while they're repairing it); you would also have to use an extra track to record the punch, which also means committing to bouncing or having multiple faders open for the vocal during the remainder of the session... For every punch. You can imagine how cumbersome that would be.
I know that Steve is against daws. But this shit is freaking complicated. I used to cut tape and record on it. Pro tools is so much better as a writing tool for a lone musician. No undo button on a tape machine
yo steve i need a little more punch from your fart slate
2:03 he touched the head lmao, look at the meters
Ha! I might have, but the heads would see the driver moving near them without touching. If I did touch the heads, they are hard enough that it would be difficult to damage them without making a project out of it. Good catch!
Singer sounds A LOT like David Bowie (as do his songs), I mean this in a good way.....
Check out Silkworm
Studers are beautiful but I don’t want a machine without ACTUAL VU meters. Sorry not sorry, classic VU’s rock
The A820 has VU metering- VU is a type of metering that uses RMS and a certain scale where 0dB is calibrated to a specific reference, in pro studios +4dBu. It can also do peak/ ppm metering, and we go back and forth all the time.
Also! VU metering is pretty bad! We get tapes in for transfer all the time where drums are way compressed and distorted because the engineer was clearly looking at 0dBVU as the "target" for drum levels. RMS metering gives you no real sense of the peak level of a signal, and so is not a good "window" into transient-dominant material. If you target 0dB VU for drums, sometimes your transients are up to like 15-20dB higher, so it's good to have a ppm meter somewhere on or before your tape machine!
I cringed big-time when he pulled the steel tweaker to point out the different heads and such -