This is both wonderfully witty and incisively insightful! I'm a psychiatrist working with several young adults, searching for answers. I happened upon the concept of PDA; finding very little research (virtually nothing in the US), I've arrived at RUclips and found these wonderful videos! I'm learning and loving it! Thank you.
I am sharing this and tagging EVERY teacher and academic staff member I know. Add to that burden is that kids today are already being buried in too much homework as it is, and even neurotypical kids struggle to keep up. It's a set up for failure for neurodivergent students.
Amazing video, helping clear up a lot of stuff and figure out what is what (neurodivergent with neurodivergent family here) You described what these are like very well. Love your use of language too
I’m pausing the video to get this thought down (ADHDer here, don’t want to forget by the end) so I apologize if you end up covering this point. One big difference I see between PDA and ADHD, from what you’re saying, in completing a task, is, the stronger the sense of pressure as a deadline approaches, say, the more the PDAer will refuse to do it, whereas (for me at least) it is that bumping right up against a deadline, intense pressure that finally causes me to hyperfocus on the required task and get it done. Until it’s the very last minute, it just isn’t compelling enough. Of course it’s always horribly stressful and exhausting at that point, so I avoid commitments and things with hard deadlines or even social indebtedness involved. But my point is the effect of the intense pressure/demand seems to be opposite in PDA vs ADHD. I hope that makes sense?
Fascinating subjects that you discuss, presented in such an accessible format. I seem to learn more about myself each time, I’m not a PDAer but ADHD-EDer…I’m from before a time where they tested kids for this stuff: explains so much.
😂 Laughing out loud at this one!!! Thanks for covering these areas. I have had several procrastinated debates on Twitter around ED and Monotropism and why these cannot explain avoidance in PDA. Glad that you have given your perspective in these areas. It helps to counter some academic perspectives related to PDA.
@@HarryThompsonPDAExtraordinaire Another area of debate has been around central coherence. Although, as you referred to in a previous video, intense focus on interests can increase DA, difficulty around central coherence is, not in itself the cause of DA in PDA. This is very complex to explain to academics looking from the outside in, who make a past time of trying to disprove PDAs existence! I am sure you could define it much more eloquently than me!!
The novelty wearing off a routine and having to start a new one is literally has been my whole life. What yoh said after reminded me one day i decided I'd rather run away from home than take out the rubbish. That was rough.
For me, this is your best vid to date. There is so much explanation here and such clarity between the different modes of stuck. I will be sharing this with our professionals Harry. Hearing how things feel on the inside for you/ my daughter are most helpful to me and really gets the the center of what I'm searching for to fully understand my girl. As she grows, she is better able to confirm things for me, but will not answer my questions if I ask too many 'stupid' ones. Thanks as always.
EXACTLY!!! YOU HIT THE TARGET SIR, OUTSTANDING JOB!!! I believe every great thinker and inventor would be identified as "PDA, ADHD!"* Please continue posting and sharing, THANK YOU!!! :)
This is so so soooo interesting! Thank you! I was diagnosed with Autism in September last year, given a leaflet and then just shown out of the door. I have been left completely lost as to what I can do to help myself as I don’t understand exactly what my diagnosis means. Through research I have found my autism has affected me a lot more than what I first thought, obviously leading to a “foggy” brain. I haven’t been able to work for about a year because of my struggles. I had heard of PDA a couple of weeks ago but didn’t resonate with it.... this video has made me realise it’s one of the (if not the biggest) battle I have with myself at this point in time! I don’t really know what to do with the information now haha but thank you so much for taking the time to go into detail about it! 💕
Hi ItsjustHhere. Thank you for your honest comment! Keep learning! The more you study you from the inside and outside, the clearer things will be, the easier life will be and the happier you will be. Being this way is a gift; however bleak it may seem sometimes.
Don’t get me wrong I’m super proud to be Autistic and my diagnosis has certainly made me realise my own mental strength, even though I feel like a duck in water (seemingly calm on the outside but very much paddling like mad underneath haha) Will deffo give your other videos a watch, have subscribed and excited to learn more 😊
Only now in early 2021 am I getting to know your broadcasts ... so I'm investigating your past ones a bit now: love this one. What a great term you've coined 'the inner curriculum'; and I'm learning previous terms new to me, like 'monotropism'. The end part about selective mutism/public speaking resonated strongly with me: I'm just like that. I'm 'happy' with my recent diagnosis of Asperger's/Level 1 autism, but I wouldn't be surprised if I 'have' what could be labelled PDA ... however I suspect (well, know, really) that given the pandemic, and the restricted services at this time, it will be difficult reconnecting with my local pressurized service to delve into my diagnosis in more detail. Thanks for all these instructive and engaging videos, Harry.
Thank you, THANK YOU for this video. I’m sending it to everyone! Your knowledge, experience and succinct description of what behaviours feel and look like are helping me understand my children and myself so much better. Also I feel able to parent better because of your and other contributors content. Don’t know if it’s possible to add a profanity ⚠️ ‘beep’ in my RUclips settings though...my 6 year old doesn’t need an explanation of the F word just yet 😂 I’ve no problem with it though; you’re speaking honestly. I could especially relate to the forgotten homework “SHIT!” Great work! 😊
My pleasure, Lucy Watts! Glad I can be of service to you. Ah yes, I did profane once or twice in this video... I was getting so into it haha! I do try and keep my vids as child friendly as possible because I'm aware parents show their children, but sometimes I just can't help myself. Thank you for the kind words :)
Chris Baines that's quite rude, not sure if you meant it that way. Also a spectrum is not a line - one of the videos on your channel mentions different ends but it's much more like an equaliser...this is a good image to demonstrate goo.gl/images/aJJ7dW
Thanks, Harry. Your stance that PDA = instinctive need to be free, rather than anxiety driven need for control tallies with my own view of the PDA mechanism. It's all so fascinating to figure out, isn't it? :)
This is so interesting! In regards to inertia, I love your way of explaining. When I had less language to put to my emotions, I googled 'disacoiation', in order to find what I was feeling!
If someone was Autistic, PDA & ADHD and very late diagnosed (40 years) and highly traumatized by their life trying to exist with no knowledge of their neurotype in a highly inappropriate family environment, and were now experiencing a continual combination of all these in debilitating ways, due to a complete burnout and lack of support, is there a difference, and how could you tell, between this and Catatonia, which 1 in 5 Autistic people experience? Because there is a lot of crossover in "ways of being stuck" and if there was also medical Catatonia, that is a motor disorder and can be treated (often very successfully). That would still leave the person with their innate different ways of not doing things, but with less, or less severely disabling motor features. Just to clarify I am not talking about "fixing" the person of who they innately are, but repairing faulty motor pathways that can make impair movement, if that is indeed a contributing factor. I would be very interested if you have any knowledge on these topics.
Thank you so much for this! PDA is a new term but absolutely something I sometimes run in to (and have described as "my inner 2 year old": it's good for me or I'll enjoy it don't matter. I'm expected to do it therefore it is the WORST THING EVER. Even when the expectation is just from myself.) Currently I'm searching for tips on dealing with autistic inertia, so that was a happy accident. Also the first time I've heard a description for selective mutism; turns out that does apply to me. I previously thought it was... more dramatic I guess?
Once again, I find myself in your descriptions. I do often sincerely forget obligations due to being more interested in something else; but I also remember being lectured, at about age 12, about taking responsibility and completing tasks "because it will be important to you in later life" to do homework for her class. And I responded accurately that I would be just fine, and she only cared because my failure to turn in homework negatively affected her work review. (Is it obvious that I didn't like the woman?) My brother, many years before, once told one of our sisters that he didn't do homework for a certain class because "she doesn't _deserve_ my homework," so I guess it runs in the family....
Hi Harry, I've just come back again here from your video "The importance of freedom (PDA)", under which you wrote that PDA people are apathetic because they cannot derive a lot of meaning from the world (you express it a bit differently, but that is the basic point). Neurotypic people derive a lot of meaning in the world by their cognitive empathy. This meaning is an extremely powerful motivator and provides a strong guideline when it comes to our preferences for what we like to do. On the other hand the lack of cognitive empathy would mean ending up in a severe lack of motivation for what should reasonably be done (or not done). So couldn't PDA in a way be an executive functioning deficit on a higher level (the level of cognitive empathy) as opposed to an executive functioning deficit on a lower level (cognitively sorting out how to proceed in getting a task done)?
Hi Eva. Thank you for you comment. You make a very beautiful and well thought out point; it was riveting and intellectually stimulating to read, so thank you. People with PDA happen to have a lot of cognitive empathy as, like psychopaths, they demonstrate a high level of understanding of emotions as to how to identify and manipulate them. The urge to avoid that which is imposed upon the PDAer is a survival instinct arising from the loss of sense of control or personal freedom. The PDAer's emotional or affective empathy fluctuates and mirrors their sense of control or personal freedom.
That is one of the services I offer! If you would like me to attend, please shoot me an email (my email address is in the video description). Thank you :)
I relate to ALL of this. What the fuck do I do? Am I just screwed? 🤣 😝. I was diagnosed adhd in grade school, and recently received a "billing code" diagnosis for autism. But it still kinda feels like there's something missing and it feels like some level of pda type demand avoidance explains a lot. I also wonder if my possibly pda tendencies were masked by childhood abuse. Meaning repeated attempted compliance due to fear of punishment while simultaneously metaphorically stuck in quicksand because why the fuck do I have to do this? (For example, in childhood, resulting in taking 3 hours to get the dishes done, or hours upon hours to clean my room.) Are there varying degrees of pda presentation and experience?
Hello from the other side of the Atlantic! Very thankful for your videos and the insights you provide! Have a question that I hope you can address in a future video. My son has retreated into fantasy through online role play games. This is largely due to our not understanding until recently that he has PDA and using a directed/demand based approach that many therapist and school counselors use with those on the spectrum. We are working to correct things and have a question about role play games and computer games in general. Should we facilitate his indulgence in the role play games? And is this something you gravitated to in the course of your journey?
Hi Kent Wilke. Thank you very much for the question. Yes, this is something I have gravitated towards (and still do to a certain extent!); I will aim to address this in a future video :)
I found this written explanation of Autistic Inertia also helpful: www.altogetherautism.org.nz/using-the-maori-creation-story-to-navigate-autistic-inertia/
Mum saw u today it's tom u sighed ur book for me thank u n to cope I just smoke weed n tbf it really does help it makes me not so stressed which makes me not so aniixous witch makes me more happy😊and also the only reason n haven't thought drink to help cause it's obviously leagal n weed isn't cause ino if I have a joint everyday from now for the rest of my life I'll be healthy obviously not as healthy as a none smoker but u get me but if I did the same with achol all loads of promblems could happen further on in my life to do with my liver kidneys etc I do have depression aswell but the thing is I don't wanna die no more I'm happy with the person I am I may have my ups n downs but ino I am a good person
This is both wonderfully witty and incisively insightful! I'm a psychiatrist working with several young adults, searching for answers. I happened upon the concept of PDA; finding very little research (virtually nothing in the US), I've arrived at RUclips and found these wonderful videos! I'm learning and loving it! Thank you.
I do prefer your way of defining PDA as:
'An instinctual desire to be free rather than an anxiety driven need to remain in control'
I am sharing this and tagging EVERY teacher and academic staff member I know. Add to that burden is that kids today are already being buried in too much homework as it is, and even neurotypical kids struggle to keep up. It's a set up for failure for neurodivergent students.
Thank you so much, Dallas B! Very grateful for your support, and that you are championing for this noble cause!
Amazing video, helping clear up a lot of stuff and figure out what is what (neurodivergent with neurodivergent family here)
You described what these are like very well. Love your use of language too
Some fight some flight some freeze and some fall asleep… I definitely fall asleep. Really enjoying your content
I’m pausing the video to get this thought down (ADHDer here, don’t want to forget by the end) so I apologize if you end up covering this point. One big difference I see between PDA and ADHD, from what you’re saying, in completing a task, is, the stronger the sense of pressure as a deadline approaches, say, the more the PDAer will refuse to do it, whereas (for me at least) it is that bumping right up against a deadline, intense pressure that finally causes me to hyperfocus on the required task and get it done. Until it’s the very last minute, it just isn’t compelling enough. Of course it’s always horribly stressful and exhausting at that point, so I avoid commitments and things with hard deadlines or even social indebtedness involved. But my point is the effect of the intense pressure/demand seems to be opposite in PDA vs ADHD. I hope that makes sense?
This makes total sense and a very good observation. I wish I mentioned this in the video!
Fascinating subjects that you discuss, presented in such an accessible format. I seem to learn more about myself each time, I’m not a PDAer but ADHD-EDer…I’m from before a time where they tested kids for this stuff: explains so much.
😂 Laughing out loud at this one!!!
Thanks for covering these areas. I have had several procrastinated debates on Twitter around ED and Monotropism and why these cannot explain avoidance in PDA.
Glad that you have given your perspective in these areas.
It helps to counter some academic perspectives related to PDA.
"It helps to counter some academic perspectives related to PDA." That was my aim! Thank you :)
@@HarryThompsonPDAExtraordinaire Another area of debate has been around central coherence.
Although, as you referred to in a previous video, intense focus on interests can increase DA, difficulty around central coherence is, not in itself the cause of DA in PDA.
This is very complex to explain to academics looking from the outside in, who make a past time of trying to disprove PDAs existence!
I am sure you could define it much more eloquently than me!!
@@cassandradavies7956 challenge accepted ;)
@@HarryThompsonPDAExtraordinaire Great! Look forward to seeing the outcome!
The novelty wearing off a routine and having to start a new one is literally has been my whole life. What yoh said after reminded me one day i decided I'd rather run away from home than take out the rubbish. That was rough.
For me, this is your best vid to date. There is so much explanation here and such clarity between the different modes of stuck. I will be sharing this with our professionals Harry. Hearing how things feel on the inside for you/ my daughter are most helpful to me and really gets the the center of what I'm searching for to fully understand my girl. As she grows, she is better able to confirm things for me, but will not answer my questions if I ask too many 'stupid' ones. Thanks as always.
I love the precise way you cover these topics.
You're doing a great job I reckon, thanks :)
Thank YOU, Fred!
EXACTLY!!! YOU HIT THE TARGET SIR, OUTSTANDING JOB!!! I believe every great thinker and inventor would be identified as "PDA, ADHD!"* Please continue posting and sharing, THANK YOU!!! :)
Thank you for all this excellent information and perspective.
This is so so soooo interesting! Thank you!
I was diagnosed with Autism in September last year, given a leaflet and then just shown out of the door.
I have been left completely lost as to what I can do to help myself as I don’t understand exactly what my diagnosis means.
Through research I have found my autism has affected me a lot more than what I first thought, obviously leading to a “foggy” brain.
I haven’t been able to work for about a year because of my struggles.
I had heard of PDA a couple of weeks ago but didn’t resonate with it.... this video has made me realise it’s one of the (if not the biggest) battle I have with myself at this point in time!
I don’t really know what to do with the information now haha but thank you so much for taking the time to go into detail about it! 💕
Hi ItsjustHhere. Thank you for your honest comment! Keep learning! The more you study you from the inside and outside, the clearer things will be, the easier life will be and the happier you will be. Being this way is a gift; however bleak it may seem sometimes.
Don’t get me wrong I’m super proud to be Autistic and my diagnosis has certainly made me realise my own mental strength, even though I feel like a duck in water (seemingly calm on the outside but very much paddling like mad underneath haha)
Will deffo give your other videos a watch, have subscribed and excited to learn more 😊
@@itsjusthhere1845 glad to hear it! Love the analogy (I love ducks)! Thanks!
Only now in early 2021 am I getting to know your broadcasts ... so I'm investigating your past ones a bit now: love this one. What a great term you've coined 'the inner curriculum'; and I'm learning previous terms new to me, like 'monotropism'. The end part about selective mutism/public speaking resonated strongly with me: I'm just like that. I'm 'happy' with my recent diagnosis of Asperger's/Level 1 autism, but I wouldn't be surprised if I 'have' what could be labelled PDA ... however I suspect (well, know, really) that given the pandemic, and the restricted services at this time, it will be difficult reconnecting with my local pressurized service to delve into my diagnosis in more detail. Thanks for all these instructive and engaging videos, Harry.
Thank you, THANK YOU for this video. I’m sending it to everyone! Your knowledge, experience and succinct description of what behaviours feel and look like are helping me understand my children and myself so much better. Also I feel able to parent better because of your and other contributors content. Don’t know if it’s possible to add a profanity ⚠️ ‘beep’ in my RUclips settings though...my 6 year old doesn’t need an explanation of the F word just yet 😂 I’ve no problem with it though; you’re speaking honestly. I could especially relate to the forgotten homework “SHIT!”
Great work! 😊
My pleasure, Lucy Watts! Glad I can be of service to you. Ah yes, I did profane once or twice in this video... I was getting so into it haha! I do try and keep my vids as child friendly as possible because I'm aware parents show their children, but sometimes I just can't help myself. Thank you for the kind words :)
Yes. This channel is a valuable resource. I especially like the dark rings around Harry's eyes in earlier videos: they sort of add to his character.
Chris Baines that's quite rude, not sure if you meant it that way. Also a spectrum is not a line - one of the videos on your channel mentions different ends but it's much more like an equaliser...this is a good image to demonstrate goo.gl/images/aJJ7dW
Thanks, Harry. Your stance that PDA = instinctive need to be free, rather than anxiety driven need for control tallies with my own view of the PDA mechanism. It's all so fascinating to figure out, isn't it? :)
This is so interesting! In regards to inertia, I love your way of explaining.
When I had less language to put to my emotions, I googled 'disacoiation', in order to find what I was feeling!
I've often said that I'm allergic to expectations...
If someone was Autistic, PDA & ADHD and very late diagnosed (40 years) and highly traumatized by their life trying to exist with no knowledge of their neurotype in a highly inappropriate family environment, and were now experiencing a continual combination of all these in debilitating ways, due to a complete burnout and lack of support, is there a difference, and how could you tell, between this and Catatonia, which 1 in 5 Autistic people experience? Because there is a lot of crossover in "ways of being stuck" and if there was also medical Catatonia, that is a motor disorder and can be treated (often very successfully). That would still leave the person with their innate different ways of not doing things, but with less, or less severely disabling motor features. Just to clarify I am not talking about "fixing" the person of who they innately are, but repairing faulty motor pathways that can make impair movement, if that is indeed a contributing factor. I would be very interested if you have any knowledge on these topics.
Thank you so much for this! PDA is a new term but absolutely something I sometimes run in to (and have described as "my inner 2 year old": it's good for me or I'll enjoy it don't matter. I'm expected to do it therefore it is the WORST THING EVER. Even when the expectation is just from myself.)
Currently I'm searching for tips on dealing with autistic inertia, so that was a happy accident.
Also the first time I've heard a description for selective mutism; turns out that does apply to me. I previously thought it was... more dramatic I guess?
Once again, I find myself in your descriptions. I do often sincerely forget obligations due to being more interested in something else; but I also remember being lectured, at about age 12, about taking responsibility and completing tasks "because it will be important to you in later life" to do homework for her class. And I responded accurately that I would be just fine, and she only cared because my failure to turn in homework negatively affected her work review. (Is it obvious that I didn't like the woman?)
My brother, many years before, once told one of our sisters that he didn't do homework for a certain class because "she doesn't _deserve_ my homework," so I guess it runs in the family....
I only heard the "deserving" story after I told on myself for the woman's bad review....
Hi Harry, I've just come back again here from your video "The importance of freedom (PDA)", under which you wrote that PDA people are apathetic because they cannot derive a lot of meaning from the world (you express it a bit differently, but that is the basic point). Neurotypic people derive a lot of meaning in the world by their cognitive empathy. This meaning is an extremely powerful motivator and provides a strong guideline when it comes to our preferences for what we like to do. On the other hand the lack of cognitive empathy would mean ending up in a severe lack of motivation for what should reasonably be done (or not done). So couldn't PDA in a way be an executive functioning deficit on a higher level (the level of cognitive empathy) as opposed to an executive functioning deficit on a lower level (cognitively sorting out how to proceed in getting a task done)?
Hi Eva. Thank you for you comment. You make a very beautiful and well thought out point; it was riveting and intellectually stimulating to read, so thank you.
People with PDA happen to have a lot of cognitive empathy as, like psychopaths, they demonstrate a high level of understanding of emotions as to how to identify and manipulate them.
The urge to avoid that which is imposed upon the PDAer is a survival instinct arising from the loss of sense of control or personal freedom. The PDAer's emotional or affective empathy fluctuates and mirrors their sense of control or personal freedom.
Great video dude, thats a meticulous master study right here. can relate to nearly everything
Thank you Harry, another great video. I will be in touch, lots of stress at home currently. Best wishes Bev
Looking forward to hearing from you :)
oh Harry thanks so much for explaining this so clearly....pretty much could do with you at our DD’s school meetings!
That is one of the services I offer! If you would like me to attend, please shoot me an email (my email address is in the video description). Thank you :)
Harry Thompson thanks so much x
I relate to ALL of this. What the fuck do I do? Am I just screwed? 🤣 😝. I was diagnosed adhd in grade school, and recently received a "billing code" diagnosis for autism. But it still kinda feels like there's something missing and it feels like some level of pda type demand avoidance explains a lot.
I also wonder if my possibly pda tendencies were masked by childhood abuse. Meaning repeated attempted compliance due to fear of punishment while simultaneously metaphorically stuck in quicksand because why the fuck do I have to do this? (For example, in childhood, resulting in taking 3 hours to get the dishes done, or hours upon hours to clean my room.) Are there varying degrees of pda presentation and experience?
I'm gob smacked. The things you describe I can see in my own life on the big TV in my head. 🤯 Need more input.
Once again such a great video! 💗💗💗
Thanks, whatjenren peterson!
Harry Thompson thank you!!!
Hello from the other side of the Atlantic! Very thankful for your videos and the insights you provide! Have a question that I hope you can address in a future video. My son has retreated into fantasy through online role play games. This is largely due to our not understanding until recently that he has PDA and using a directed/demand based approach that many therapist and school counselors use with those on the spectrum. We are working to correct things and have a question about role play games and computer games in general. Should we facilitate his indulgence in the role play games? And is this something you gravitated to in the course of your journey?
Hi Kent Wilke. Thank you very much for the question. Yes, this is something I have gravitated towards (and still do to a certain extent!); I will aim to address this in a future video :)
Watching this while avoiding an assignment lol
Watching this while hitting a wall and not being able to go to work today (metaphoric wall)
never had the same job longer then 6 weeks 😂 Ive worked in many places
I wonder if I can cope with the demands of the length of this video.
My first thought
I always do that. This video was worth it
I found this written explanation of Autistic Inertia also helpful:
www.altogetherautism.org.nz/using-the-maori-creation-story-to-navigate-autistic-inertia/
I am either fight or sleep. There is no in between 😂
Haha! Love it, Dallas B 😂
Thanks, Harry, you are describing me here LOL
Mum saw u today it's tom u sighed ur book for me thank u n to cope I just smoke weed n tbf it really does help it makes me not so stressed which makes me not so aniixous witch makes me more happy😊and also the only reason n haven't thought drink to help cause it's obviously leagal n weed isn't cause ino if I have a joint everyday from now for the rest of my life I'll be healthy obviously not as healthy as a none smoker but u get me but if I did the same with achol all loads of promblems could happen further on in my life to do with my liver kidneys etc I do have depression aswell but the thing is I don't wanna die no more I'm happy with the person I am I may have my ups n downs but ino I am a good person
fuu, sounds to me like u could use a little harder look at urself.. :/ i like to smoke too,but i know it has its cost too.
🤣 excellent 👌