I have commented this another time, but would love any knowledge you have on Proto Indo-European myths and stories with any connection to the stars, like the great hunter story for example. Your channel is so awesome I am so grateful to have found such a Great educator
It’s often difficult to find easily consumed information on the PIE cultural sphere without it being covered in a lot of misrepresentation, and pseudo historical nonsense inspired by dangerous ideology. Your relaxing voice and honesty in representing the evidence has made you a really great channel to listen to. Keep up the great work man looking forward to continuing my listening!
"From the mouth there was speech and from the speech there was fire" And from the fire was the first rap song. From the song was more fire so fire that the universe burned down and started over again. I'd make a great anthropologist.
I'm a little more basic about all of this... in the glasshouse mountains there is a formation I call the gorilla. This is because it looks like a gorilla. Similarly in Hungary there is a mountain range called locally "the sleeping witch" because it looks like a female outline. This seems the easiest explanation of why the world is made of body parts. If you know the rough area where this myth started, maybe if you just went there and looked at the landscape you may see mountain ranges in the form of heads, hands and feet?
We should not underestimate our ancestor's worldview (especially concerning Death and Birth). Although we have a modern scientific understanding of the material reality, being grounded in a symbolic understanding of reality is very important for us individually and for us as a species. Thousands and thousands of years of human wisdom should not be discarded just because they are not scientifically valid. We have to look at the objective truth behind these ancient stories.
The Seven "Planets" (e.g. 'wanderers') of the Ancients (Romans & Greeks & Others): 1. Sun, 2. Moon, 3. Mercury, 4. Venus, 5. Mars 6. Jupiter & 7. Saturn These could all be seen in the sky with the naked eye. They were not "fixed" in the sky (like stars) but 'wandered' around. Usually, each had a representative god/goddess. Each had qualities & myths associated with them. It was not recognized that the Earth was also a "planet." The Earth was the center of everything.
Even today we have historians who don't get this and take myths literally and still interpret them with wild abandon. Similar to eastern alchemy which many think was a thing where mystics were trying to turn mercury and lead into gold, when in actuality they were referring to changing the body, lead, and the liquid mercury, the untrained mind, into gold, the enlightened mind.
It's amazing how even before modern science we had an innate understanding of our shared relationship with the universe and the cycles of matter as well as life and death. Of course the myths are just interpretations, but they so intimately understood the deeper truths without even realizing it
Hi, I just found your channel and I love the stories discussed her, it's amazing to think how far this stories have traveled. There is one that I like from Mexico that also exists in japan, an old man walking on earth getting tired and wanting to eat, in the Mexican version the rabbit offers some grass and then offers himself and Quetzalcoatl shows himself to be a the god and as a reward puts the silouette of the rabbit in the moon for everyone to know. I read that they are believed to be non related to the Asians one and just to be coincidences but I love how coincidental they are. Amazing topics for these videos
That sounds interesting, I will see if there is any academic work on that link, and will do videos about those stories on the others one of the world as soon as I can. Thanks for watching and your support :)
I think the idea expressed by the creation of the world represented as the separation of a primordial body is related, not only to the creation of the earth, but to the creation of nations and the interpersonal relationships it results from. In other words, a group or nation comes together when groups of similar people come together then breaks apart when the people separate. I.e., strife separates and common good brings together. I think this idea is an important aspect in myth making. It helps explain how specific groups for whom the myths are important were created from the breaking apart of older civilizations for the intrinsic betterment of the resulting groupsp. In a way, each people's myth is saying, "The old group separated into parts of which we are one and our people are special because we separated from that old group." I don't know if this makes any sense, but to me, it fills a psychological gap between "the primordial body separated into parts and created the world" and "we, as a group, are special because of it".
Another great video! Could you make a video on the Æsir/Vanir war in Norse mythology? I always found this story one of the most exciting. Recently I came across an article that argued that Æsir/Vanir distinction and war was made up or at least accentuated by Snorri Snorasson. I can't link to the article because my comment gets removed then. Anyway, the paper makes a pretty convincing argument but does not evaluate if any comparable myths from other religions exist. If any such exits, it would surely be a major blow to the Snorri hypothesis that the author presents. Do you have thoughts or comments on this? The mentioned paper is by Rudolf Simek and called: 'The Vanir: An obituary' Thanks again for a great channel.
Thanks. I found this very interesting, especially the chart at minute fifteen. I never heard of the Dove King. Might be interesting to do another video where you give the background for the sources. The who, where, when behind the writings.
Fantastic stuff. I’ve been studying Anthropology, with a lot of interest in our pre-Sapiens relatives, but I’ve become more interested in the Cultural side recently. You probably know that the excavation team at the Rising Star Cave in South Africa have now found cultural materials. Apparently H. Naledi had fires burning at nearly every intersection in the cave. Naledi is small brained. This is a possible indication that brain size isn’t as important to intelligence as we have thought. I have a bunch of speculations about what the fires mean, which I’m going to record shortly.
We have seen fire used in rituals pre-homo sapien migration to Europe, so approximately 130k years ago if my memory serves me correctly. And so fire rituals are certainly a possibility, although that hypothesis is based on the fact that no other artefacts were found at the sites. It’ll be interesting to read the full report from the dig, and I will certainly do that before I can make any ascertations about what it means.
@@Crecganford It’s easier on the mechanical side. They didn’t announce tool finds, however the fuel used would have needed to have a high energy density, so we are probably talking hardwoods. Hardwoods imply stone tools to cut, so I expect now they know where to look they will find some. Considering the narrow passages the wood would have needed to be taken through, we can guess that they cut the pieces relatively short, again implying stone tools. The big question is what type of stone tool technology did they use? That’s huge, since we have no evidence for any other populations in SA at the time, and due to topography I doubt there were any - but more exploration needs to be done.
Hey, I was wondering if you have any opinions on theogonical authors such as Hesiod and Pherecydes. How close do you think they are to the original Proto-Indo-European myths?
They are useful in terms of academia, and I think I may have touched on this briefly in the Greek myth video. But some of them are Indo European in origin. And I'll talk more about this soon as it is an interesting subject.
There is only this version, but some passages I record a couple of times as I soemtimes go off topic or correct myself if I know I made a mistake or if I'm not clear
The same with the Nart(Circassians) and Lady Tree. My hair reaches up into the heavens, so that I know all the stars and I shall give to you also knowledge of them. My roots reach deep down into the earth, so that I know all the life that springs therefrom, and I shall place in your arms all this life. My trunk stands in the world, so that I know the earth has no edge and I shall give to you all the treasure that is on the surface of the earth
I love your videos! But I have a question: How do researchers conclude that these homologies and other ideas are influenced from a single source, as opposed to concluding that humans are just naturally inclined to view the cosmos as anthropomorphic, and therefore to view the wind as breath, trees as hair, etc.? I take it it has to do with the sheer numbers of similarities and the uncanniness of some of them, particularly names.
With regards to the Proto Indo-European cultures, it as as much to do with knowing the language and cultures are from the same source, and so the stories probably are too. Although with the stories even the names are often the same, from India to Scandinavia. But I will talk about this more soon, as it should be challenged.
In Iroquois mythology there's a creation myth with two twins, one of them killing their own mother and the other one create the world from the mother's body. Is the dismembering of a primeval being motif more ancient than the proto-indo-european myth?
On the divinity of conception and venus figures. I do not think spirituality or belief in the supernatural is necessarily required to have worship or admiration. Even then, we know we come from our mothers, we know it happens sometimes after intercourse. We know we need children to continue on and some children will not reach adulthood. It is only natural to worship the female form, especially in bigger forms, symbolizing excess and health.
Hi! great program! Just a question, it seems, since there are only males in the creation myth, that the reproduction (a female) it was not an issue to consider. There is any consideration about that? Best regards
Yes, I touch on this exact point in my video on the "oldest creation myth?". Mythology tended to be carried by men, about men, for men, and so we see this bias, and this is shown in Adam creating Eve, but also in the oldest myths of man producing material to make the earth, not woman. Worth a watch if you want to know more.
In the Bible (Old Testament/Torah) Seven is the number of "Completion." (A full set.) The Heavens & the Earth are made in six days. On the Seventh Day (the Day of Completion) God rested!
Perhaps the Corded Ware culture was the first Indo-Europeanized population in Europe, and they spoke a pre-proto-Germanic language? Subsequently, as the IE influences diffused farther west (Bell Beaker, pre-proto-Celtic?) and south (pre-proto-Italic, Hellenic, Anatolian), the IE mythic elements merged and accreted with more & more prior elements, resulting in the greater complexity & diversity of myths from those regions? Such could seemingly explain why Germanic sources are the most primitive representations of IE influences, and would also, in turn, support the Yamnaya Kurgan hypothesis.
And this may be where the arrogance and hubris of mankind comes from. We don't give other animals any credit for being connected to the cosmos, even though they have bones, breath, hair, brains, etc. It is the mighty human being that is homologous to the cosmos, and vice versa.
20:16 (looking forward to the episode about Aphrodite and the Venus figures :) OK - Adam, man, he, Adam - time after time after time. so, okay, maybe in the original this means humankind not “man”. except for a man’s body definitely being used to create the world. then we get to this one where all that matters is semen - man’s seeds. so where the blank are women? we’re the ones who actually create life. we’re not male sea horses. so very few myths have woman being creators!!!! do you have any idea what this makes me feel in this day and age ? - angry as hell. in ancient times, did women feel they were just another animal for man to rule over? and, sweetie person, even you denigrated the female mother figures as being nothing but charms people (men, i guess) carried around. arghhh!!!!! to say the least!!! i am not p.o.’d at you, i’m just p.o’d. one thing i have just found out about, is that original text of the Hebrew in the Torah, has N o t been properly translated. Eve was made from half of Adam as an equal partner. she was not made as a little aside from a rib!!!! and, as you have said, she did Not Tempt Adam to eat the fruit (probably a pomegranate), he just ate it, too. Chaucer thought women were strong and so did the Vikings. Are there Any Myths where women are main characters? this really is upsetting!!! thanks, Jon, and i do love your work and thoughts. be safe :) 🌷🪻🌱
I do mention this in a couple of my videos, that the mythology and cosmogony that was recorded was recorded by men, and so we have the male opinion. And that is why much seems skewed that way, and I wish I could fix that because the myths told by the other half of the world would have been just as amazing.
You’re brilliant! You know so darned much about this stuff. i especially love learning the similarities among the myths and legends. so glad i can at least say “thanks” once in a while. you be safe, too :) 🌷🪻🌱
![Twenty One Pilots - The Line (from Arcane Season 2) [Official Audio]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/XCz7WUotXs8/mqdefault.jpg)
Are there any parts of the myth you would like to understand better?
Please do indo European india please
I have commented this another time, but would love any knowledge you have on Proto Indo-European myths and stories with any connection to the stars, like the great hunter story for example. Your channel is so awesome I am so grateful to have found such a Great educator
@@briananderson2219 They'll be some coming in future videos. Thanks for watching and your support.
I‘d like to see a video about Tyr and his origins from deus pater and his similar variants like in the luwian mythology
@@rebu1483 Yes! A good request. I am working on this, it is very complicated, but probably a video next month will start the journey into this.
It’s often difficult to find easily consumed information on the PIE cultural sphere without it being covered in a lot of misrepresentation, and pseudo historical nonsense inspired by dangerous ideology.
Your relaxing voice and honesty in representing the evidence has made you a really great channel to listen to. Keep up the great work man looking forward to continuing my listening!
Thank you, I appreciate those kind words.
What if the indo European creation myth was just some dude who discovered cow milk not wanting to look weird for tasting it
🤔😆😎
A good question, and I touch on this in the next video :)
@@Crecganford unfortunately I'll have to miss the next video but I'll be able to see it after bootcamp
@@copperhead3703 It always be here to watch anytime in the future
"From the mouth there was speech and from the speech there was fire"
And from the fire was the first rap song. From the song was more fire so fire that the universe burned down and started over again.
I'd make a great anthropologist.
I'm a little more basic about all of this... in the glasshouse mountains there is a formation I call the gorilla. This is because it looks like a gorilla. Similarly in Hungary there is a mountain range called locally "the sleeping witch" because it looks like a female outline. This seems the easiest explanation of why the world is made of body parts. If you know the rough area where this myth started, maybe if you just went there and looked at the landscape you may see mountain ranges in the form of heads, hands and feet?
I just found you channel. Thank you for all the great content. I’ve been binge watching while crocheting my Christmas projects.
You ended on a stellar note! Loved it!
We should not underestimate our ancestor's worldview (especially concerning Death and Birth). Although we have a modern scientific understanding of the material reality, being grounded in a symbolic understanding of reality is very important for us individually and for us as a species.
Thousands and thousands of years of human wisdom should not be discarded just because they are not scientifically valid. We have to look at the objective truth behind these ancient stories.
Exactly, and this is one of the reasons I like studying these mythologies, to get a better understanding of these beliefs.
The Seven "Planets" (e.g. 'wanderers') of the Ancients (Romans & Greeks & Others):
1. Sun,
2. Moon,
3. Mercury,
4. Venus,
5. Mars
6. Jupiter &
7. Saturn
These could all be seen in the sky with the naked eye. They were not "fixed" in the sky (like stars) but 'wandered' around. Usually, each had a representative god/goddess. Each had qualities & myths associated with them.
It was not recognized that the Earth was also a "planet." The Earth was the center of everything.
Even today we have historians who don't get this and take myths literally and still interpret them with wild abandon. Similar to eastern alchemy which many think was a thing where mystics were trying to turn mercury and lead into gold, when in actuality they were referring to changing the body, lead, and the liquid mercury, the untrained mind, into gold, the enlightened mind.
The Cruel Sea's "Black Stick" song will never be the same for me again.
It's amazing how even before modern science we had an innate understanding of our shared relationship with the universe and the cycles of matter as well as life and death. Of course the myths are just interpretations, but they so intimately understood the deeper truths without even realizing it
I agree, this is one of the motifs that really made me think they had an understanding of the cosmos that really worked for them.
Hi, I just found your channel and I love the stories discussed her, it's amazing to think how far this stories have traveled. There is one that I like from Mexico that also exists in japan, an old man walking on earth getting tired and wanting to eat, in the Mexican version the rabbit offers some grass and then offers himself and Quetzalcoatl shows himself to be a the god and as a reward puts the silouette of the rabbit in the moon for everyone to know. I read that they are believed to be non related to the Asians one and just to be coincidences but I love how coincidental they are. Amazing topics for these videos
That sounds interesting, I will see if there is any academic work on that link, and will do videos about those stories on the others one of the world as soon as I can. Thanks for watching and your support :)
very fascinating all of this, always been interested in comparative mythology, great to see such a detailed study and analysis :)
Thank you very much!
I think the idea expressed by the creation of the world represented as the separation of a primordial body is related, not only to the creation of the earth, but to the creation of nations and the interpersonal relationships it results from.
In other words, a group or nation comes together when groups of similar people come together then breaks apart when the people separate. I.e., strife separates and common good brings together.
I think this idea is an important aspect in myth making. It helps explain how specific groups for whom the myths are important were created from the breaking apart of older civilizations for the intrinsic betterment of the resulting groupsp. In a way, each people's myth is saying, "The old group separated into parts of which we are one and our people are special because we separated from that old group."
I don't know if this makes any sense, but to me, it fills a psychological gap between "the primordial body separated into parts and created the world" and "we, as a group, are special because of it".
Another great video!
Could you make a video on the Æsir/Vanir war in Norse mythology? I always found this story one of the most exciting.
Recently I came across an article that argued that Æsir/Vanir distinction and war was made up or at least accentuated by Snorri Snorasson. I can't link to the article because my comment gets removed then. Anyway, the paper makes a pretty convincing argument but does not evaluate if any comparable myths from other religions exist. If any such exits, it would surely be a major blow to the Snorri hypothesis that the author presents. Do you have thoughts or comments on this?
The mentioned paper is by Rudolf Simek and called: 'The Vanir: An obituary'
Thanks again for a great channel.
That is a great suggestion, and one I will definitely do. But it may not be for a few months, so watch this space as it will happen :)
Thanks. I found this very interesting, especially the chart at minute fifteen. I never heard of the Dove King. Might be interesting to do another video where you give the background for the sources. The who, where, when behind the writings.
Thats a good idea, thank you
Extremely interesting! Thank you for such fascinating insights!
And thank you for watching.
Fantastic stuff. I’ve been studying Anthropology, with a lot of interest in our pre-Sapiens relatives, but I’ve become more interested in the Cultural side recently.
You probably know that the excavation team at the Rising Star Cave in South Africa have now found cultural materials. Apparently H. Naledi had fires burning at nearly every intersection in the cave.
Naledi is small brained. This is a possible indication that brain size isn’t as important to intelligence as we have thought.
I have a bunch of speculations about what the fires mean, which I’m going to record shortly.
We have seen fire used in rituals pre-homo sapien migration to Europe, so approximately 130k years ago if my memory serves me correctly. And so fire rituals are certainly a possibility, although that hypothesis is based on the fact that no other artefacts were found at the sites. It’ll be interesting to read the full report from the dig, and I will certainly do that before I can make any ascertations about what it means.
@@Crecganford
It’s easier on the mechanical side. They didn’t announce tool finds, however the fuel used would have needed to have a high energy density, so we are probably talking hardwoods.
Hardwoods imply stone tools to cut, so I expect now they know where to look they will find some.
Considering the narrow passages the wood would have needed to be taken through, we can guess that they cut the pieces relatively short, again implying stone tools.
The big question is what type of stone tool technology did they use? That’s huge, since we have no evidence for any other populations in SA at the time, and due to topography I doubt there were any - but more exploration needs to be done.
Amazing great reccomendation crecganford im suprised i hadnt seen this gem yet
Hey, I was wondering if you have any opinions on theogonical authors such as Hesiod and Pherecydes. How close do you think they are to the original Proto-Indo-European myths?
They are useful in terms of academia, and I think I may have touched on this briefly in the Greek myth video. But some of them are Indo European in origin. And I'll talk more about this soon as it is an interesting subject.
How many versions of this video have you made already?
There is only this version, but some passages I record a couple of times as I soemtimes go off topic or correct myself if I know I made a mistake or if I'm not clear
The same with the Nart(Circassians) and Lady Tree. My hair reaches up into the heavens, so that I know all the stars and I shall give to you also knowledge of them. My roots reach deep down into the earth, so that I know all the life that springs therefrom, and I shall place in your arms all this life. My trunk stands in the world, so that I know the earth has no edge and I shall give to you all the treasure that is on the surface of the earth
Yes! Exactly
My good sir, where did you get those awesome Venus dolls?
I have a friend who works in a museum in Europe, and he takes casts of certain items :)
@@Crecganford are they original and he steels them?
I love your videos! But I have a question: How do researchers conclude that these homologies and other ideas are influenced from a single source, as opposed to concluding that humans are just naturally inclined to view the cosmos as anthropomorphic, and therefore to view the wind as breath, trees as hair, etc.? I take it it has to do with the sheer numbers of similarities and the uncanniness of some of them, particularly names.
With regards to the Proto Indo-European cultures, it as as much to do with knowing the language and cultures are from the same source, and so the stories probably are too. Although with the stories even the names are often the same, from India to Scandinavia. But I will talk about this more soon, as it should be challenged.
In Iroquois mythology there's a creation myth with two twins, one of them killing their own mother and the other one create the world from the mother's body. Is the dismembering of a primeval being motif more ancient than the proto-indo-european myth?
phenomenal information
Thank you
On the divinity of conception and venus figures. I do not think spirituality or belief in the supernatural is necessarily required to have worship or admiration. Even then, we know we come from our mothers, we know it happens sometimes after intercourse. We know we need children to continue on and some children will not reach adulthood. It is only natural to worship the female form, especially in bigger forms, symbolizing excess and health.
Hi! great program! Just a question, it seems, since there are only males in the creation myth, that the reproduction (a female) it was not an issue to consider. There is any consideration about that? Best regards
Yes, I touch on this exact point in my video on the "oldest creation myth?". Mythology tended to be carried by men, about men, for men, and so we see this bias, and this is shown in Adam creating Eve, but also in the oldest myths of man producing material to make the earth, not woman. Worth a watch if you want to know more.
great as usual.
In the Bible (Old Testament/Torah) Seven is the number of "Completion." (A full set.) The Heavens & the Earth are made in six days. On the Seventh Day (the Day of Completion) God rested!
Perhaps the Corded Ware culture was the first Indo-Europeanized population in Europe, and they spoke a pre-proto-Germanic language? Subsequently, as the IE influences diffused farther west (Bell Beaker, pre-proto-Celtic?) and south (pre-proto-Italic, Hellenic, Anatolian), the IE mythic elements merged and accreted with more & more prior elements, resulting in the greater complexity & diversity of myths from those regions?
Such could seemingly explain why Germanic sources are the most primitive representations of IE influences, and would also, in turn, support the Yamnaya Kurgan hypothesis.
More indo European india please
Of course! :)
I wonder which part was made from the toenails.
You have too much time on your hands :)
And this may be where the arrogance and hubris of mankind comes from. We don't give other animals any credit for being connected to the cosmos, even though they have bones, breath, hair, brains, etc. It is the mighty human being that is homologous to the cosmos, and vice versa.
Aiterya Upanishad is my favourite personally. It's the most life affirming and blooming text. One of the best of Ancient Literature.
Pattern recognition
If the vault of the sky = cranial vault of the skull, then clouds = brains = thoughts?
Sometimes we do see that analogy, but equally because the head is in the sky (or highest part of the body) and that is where the clouds are.
Please make a special on Ukraine and its history and mythology ✊
I am looking into this, my artist for this channel is Ukrainian and she is desperate for help and support
All I got from this is that farts cause death.
20:16 (looking forward to the episode about Aphrodite and the Venus figures :)
OK - Adam, man, he, Adam - time after time after time.
so, okay, maybe in the original this means humankind not “man”. except for a man’s body definitely being used to create the world. then we get to this one where all that matters is semen - man’s seeds.
so where the blank are women? we’re the ones who actually create life. we’re not male sea horses. so very few myths have woman being creators!!!! do you have any idea what this makes me feel in this day and age ? - angry as hell. in ancient times, did women feel they were just another animal for man to rule over?
and, sweetie person, even you denigrated the female mother figures as being nothing but charms people (men, i guess) carried around. arghhh!!!!! to say the least!!!
i am not p.o.’d at you, i’m just p.o’d.
one thing i have just found out about, is that original text of the Hebrew in the Torah, has N o t been properly translated. Eve was made from half of Adam as an equal partner. she was not made as a little aside from a rib!!!! and, as you have said, she did Not Tempt Adam to eat the fruit (probably a pomegranate), he just ate it, too. Chaucer thought women were strong and so did the Vikings. Are there Any Myths where women are main characters? this really is upsetting!!! thanks, Jon, and i do love your work and thoughts. be safe :) 🌷🪻🌱
I do mention this in a couple of my videos, that the mythology and cosmogony that was recorded was recorded by men, and so we have the male opinion. And that is why much seems skewed that way, and I wish I could fix that because the myths told by the other half of the world would have been just as amazing.
You’re brilliant! You know so darned much about this stuff. i especially love learning the similarities among the myths and legends. so glad i can at least say “thanks” once in a while. you be safe, too :) 🌷🪻🌱
Thank you so much for your kind words and support, it is very much appreciated.