Dissidia: Duodecim - Cloud vs Level 255 Feral Chaos

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  • Опубликовано: 18 янв 2025

Комментарии • 496

  • @V0idHunt3r
    @V0idHunt3r 11 лет назад +180

    Kills Choas "Figures. What a pain."

    • @darksea6
      @darksea6 6 лет назад +5

      😂😂😂😂😂😂

  • @Alex-ti7zb
    @Alex-ti7zb 4 года назад +28

    I still remember this, it was so damn difficult to beat him so you could unlock his character, good memories 😅

  • @jamiLaVida
    @jamiLaVida 12 лет назад +32

    cloud is very easy to use, in ex-mode all of his attacks can break through any guard, and since he has two branching HP attacks, you can totally deal massive damage pronto.

    • @dethkruzer
      @dethkruzer Год назад +2

      Not quite. His EX mode gives his melee attacks high priority. But both Jecht Blocn and Omni Guard have higher priority and can thus block Cloud.

    • @Blackdragon21
      @Blackdragon21 6 месяцев назад

      ​Exdeath can doing this

  • @travisosier7823
    @travisosier7823 12 лет назад +33

    "I can handle this"
    Whelp, I guess he was right.

  • @Gears360net
    @Gears360net  12 лет назад +16

    Yeah, I have one of those too. "How to turn feral chaos into a joke". This video wasn't uploaded for a skill showcase as much as for suspense and a reason to use the music. There is also a difference between the Level 130 version and the 255 version in that he is far more aggressive in his HP damage attacks than he otherwise would be, and it takes forever to whittle him down, since you can't build up your bravery.

  • @ShovelFighter12
    @ShovelFighter12 8 лет назад +72

    Breaking my limits!

  • @Mc.Scrumpy
    @Mc.Scrumpy 5 лет назад +10

    I used to be so good at this game that I tried syncing the battle with the music, "into the abyss" either when cloud limit breaks and wins or when feral chaos shuts off the screen, uugh I need to post them

  • @Singysinger7722
    @Singysinger7722 12 лет назад +39

    Lol, bravery swap backfired on him.

  • @hacksign5
    @hacksign5 10 лет назад +38

    Onion Knight is still the easiest to beat Feral with... Comet spam for an hour and all Feral will try to do is dodge and get pinned by the barrage once you got him against a wall.

    • @kanishqamogh4205
      @kanishqamogh4205 4 года назад +1

      Finished him with kefka's trine

    • @bondrewdthebeloved6600
      @bondrewdthebeloved6600 4 года назад +1

      Kujas ultima, if you over him

    • @drmobiandoom
      @drmobiandoom 4 года назад +1

      @@bondrewdthebeloved6600 Yuna's Mega Flare as well

    • @juliusbryanbulawan6710
      @juliusbryanbulawan6710 4 года назад +2

      Apparently all characters WITH branched HP attacks are the best choice.

    • @kanishqamogh4205
      @kanishqamogh4205 4 года назад

      @@juliusbryanbulawan6710 that is true but still found it pretty hard with clouds omnislash version 5

  • @angeldayzer4690
    @angeldayzer4690 8 лет назад +11

    That was good Cloud looks real calm in this fight

  • @Palkiafan08
    @Palkiafan08 12 лет назад +1

    The music that are playing is distant worlds versions of Terra's theme, bombing mission, Jenova, Man with the machine gun, Don't Be Afraid, Some version of X's battle theme that i haven't heard before, To Zanarkand, um i don't know.. and of course The Victory Theme :)

  • @juggalo_ninja0255
    @juggalo_ninja0255 5 лет назад +31

    I used to love playing this game this was one of my favorites it still is I just don't have the system anymore to play but God damn that battle was fucking intense I was on the edge of my seat the whole time😳😲😲😯😯

    • @eugenio3048
      @eugenio3048 5 лет назад +2

      lol i have it emulated with ppsspp on my phone :)

    • @Lun4rS0ulz_
      @Lun4rS0ulz_ 5 лет назад

      I used to play this game all the time as a little kid. Believe it or not, I was kicking ass like John Wick in a LEGO movie. Ah, good times...

    • @johnaggasid9369
      @johnaggasid9369 5 лет назад

      I still play it rn with an emulator on my pc. Just hope people still play it online because this game is AMAZING!

    • @Kami_North
      @Kami_North 5 лет назад +5

      The community is still really active, look up Dissidia Discord @John

    • @johnaggasid9369
      @johnaggasid9369 5 лет назад +2

      @@Kami_North Wow it really is! Thanks!

  • @__luc
    @__luc 10 лет назад +35

    This Chaos looks much easier then the original dissidia's one...
    Still epic fight!

    • @zoheezus
      @zoheezus 4 года назад +1

      right?! og dissidia chaos would attack nonstop, where as feral chaos atleast pauses from time to time.

    • @God-KingDarius
      @God-KingDarius 3 года назад

      @@zoheezus ok but I dont think fighting something with 133k hp is as easy as beating something with 9999 x 3 hp

    • @TheHeavieKiwie
      @TheHeavieKiwie 3 года назад +1

      @@God-KingDarius Unless if Chaos could get more HP he'd be even more harder then.

    • @TheHeavieKiwie
      @TheHeavieKiwie 3 года назад +1

      @@God-KingDarius Other than that, the other Chaos seem to have a higher overall difficulty.

  • @DrEvolification
    @DrEvolification 12 лет назад +6

    You have to master the *Slashing Blow* skill first(is Cloud`s 1st air bravery attack) then you will get the *Omnislash Version 5* skill.The same goes for *Finishing Touch* to get that u need to master skill called *Sonic Break*,Cloud will learn this skill at lvl 13.

  • @bae7589
    @bae7589 6 лет назад +4

    Gosh i remember my hands were all sweaty at that time. When i was playing with chaos

  • @DovahZeux
    @DovahZeux 7 месяцев назад +1

    7:10 After all that epic struggling against Feral Chaos, when it played Final Fantasy 9's "Living by the Sword" at this point (the music from the friendly battle from the theatrical performance at the beginning of FF9), I just cried... 😭🥳🎉❤⚔

  • @AidanTanguis
    @AidanTanguis 12 лет назад +2

    GOD after 10:00 The music gets so FFX EPIC and the battles coming to an end!

  • @Lakword2
    @Lakword2 12 лет назад

    THANK YOU!!! :) You dont have any idea how much Ive been looking for it and dint find it. Almost all which were appearing were either Jenova or Sephiroth

  • @amirulakmal1321
    @amirulakmal1321 5 лет назад +1

    11:21 That music timing is perfect...

  • @innenkosnarukami2450
    @innenkosnarukami2450 10 лет назад +71

    I would have probably been alot more impressed by this if the game's AI for Feral wasn't so laughably lame.

    • @MRAxel1900
      @MRAxel1900 6 лет назад +5

      Is like a big Baby with a shotgun, but Baby in the end

    • @QuantemDeconstructor
      @QuantemDeconstructor 4 года назад +1

      if FC actually had Condemn instead of Deus Iratus it would be a lot harder immediately

  • @ДенисАрхипов-е8и
    @ДенисАрхипов-е8и 10 лет назад +5

    Cloud`s omnislash is still looking awesome

  • @Gears360net
    @Gears360net  12 лет назад +2

    Interesting, I wasn't aware of such a feature was available for the player's character. I will have to look into that.

  • @Consequentiality
    @Consequentiality 12 лет назад +13

    Whenever his EX mode runs out during a combo, and he'll leave EX mode afterwards, why doesn't he ever use his EX attack for some extra damage? ._.

    • @MrJostur
      @MrJostur 4 года назад +2

      Very, very old comment, but:
      It's basically to make the ending more flashy.

  • @bl_nderscore
    @bl_nderscore 12 лет назад +8

    "I used to be a whale.." "Hit him again!"
    Am I close?

  • @Vincentre
    @Vincentre 13 лет назад

    @Shadowcynder1830
    I don't know if you've played it but, 2 out of 3 are from Distant World's rendition of Final Fantasy VIII's themes.
    4:13 - Orchestrated version of Man with the Machine Gun (Laguna's Theme) from Final Fantasy VIII
    6:01 - Orchestrated version of Don't Be Afraid (Battle Theme ) from Final Fantasy VIII
    11:22 - No idea.

  • @kuronoroux8864
    @kuronoroux8864 10 лет назад +4

    And thus Cloud got his revenge.

  • @Leafia_Barrett
    @Leafia_Barrett 10 лет назад +4

    HaloMaster105 You said the music was all from Distant Worlds. What about the reorchestrated version of the FFX battle theme that kicks in at 8:08? I've yet to find that ANYWHERE.

    • @Leafia_Barrett
      @Leafia_Barrett 7 лет назад +3

      To this day I still have not located that remix...

    • @Omnishredder
      @Omnishredder 6 лет назад

      Don't forget the one winged angel from moabi 45 minutes long medley

    • @Nikita-ze8ii
      @Nikita-ze8ii 5 лет назад

      Couldnt find it either butttt have this: ruclips.net/video/sOzM4ClFG1o/видео.html

  • @teraspeXt
    @teraspeXt 8 лет назад +19

    8:20 til the end...
    Video: (nusic..)
    Me: 💭These musics sound sooo familiar

    • @teraspeXt
      @teraspeXt 8 лет назад +1

      Reply/Like
      If you agree

    • @Ninetails2000
      @Ninetails2000 6 лет назад

      It's a remix of the battle theme from FFX.

  • @Masuo15
    @Masuo15 12 лет назад

    Yes, he is Feral Chaos and I already unlocked him, but if I recall well, the lvl 255 is a hacked version of Feral Chaos, wich is the strongest one because it use accesorys from the labiryth (whatever you spell that) to make his HP go higher and his ATK/DEF to be stronger.

  • @bae7589
    @bae7589 6 лет назад +4

    If you wanna beat this thing you need this team comp. Cloud - W.o.L - Squall - Bartz/ Zidane - Any character that follows up an Hp Attack.

  • @NarrisNor
    @NarrisNor 12 лет назад

    It should say in the Ability screen, just land the Bravery attack that lets you crossover into the HP attack and try mashing the square button at different times. Once you get the timing down it'll be a snap to use.

  • @PrinceDoebler
    @PrinceDoebler 13 лет назад

    @Anemite His max HP is 10,299, and the attacks are doing around 2K damage; bravery total plus hit bonus.

  • @nickhalden374
    @nickhalden374 9 лет назад +19

    cancelling the burst when chaos was at like 100 bravery and stage brv was at 1800 made me cringe

  • @PrinceDoebler
    @PrinceDoebler 12 лет назад +1

    Wow. Feral Chaos handed you that victory thanks to those Shinryu summons.

  • @PrinceDoebler
    @PrinceDoebler 13 лет назад

    @Anemite First, he hit FC for 1100 + 605, for a total of 1705. As for why he's recovering so much health, I'm guessing he's equipped with weapons/accessories that boost the EXP earned. Excalibur II has the EXP +100% effect.

  • @Jochira_VTuber
    @Jochira_VTuber 12 лет назад

    in this game so must you does you build up your HP attacks (special attacks and reduces enemies HP) by using bravery attacks (normal attacks), but your bravery re-sets after using a successful HP attack (that includes even times like when Terra gets hit by her own Meltdown and Emperor by his own Blue Flare)

  • @searchman93
    @searchman93 12 лет назад +3

    very impressive, this obviously take a lot of pure skills to take this guy on like that. although i have two questions.
    1. were do you fight this "lvl 255" feral chaos?
    2. what accesories did you use for getting your EX gauge up so quickly?

    • @izayoinexus3282
      @izayoinexus3282 2 года назад +1

      Waaaay late but after you beat the game there is an after story like quest. Let's just say I see why chaos couldn't kill F. Chaos

  • @jokerswylde8907
    @jokerswylde8907 11 лет назад +1

    ive never understood the combat system in this game so this is just OOO PRETTY!

  • @samuelebumbaca1625
    @samuelebumbaca1625 9 лет назад +4

    it's called the song the minute 11:22?

  • @Bsaiyan94
    @Bsaiyan94 13 лет назад

    Beautiful music the ending music was so beast it was using FFX's sad theme then got all hype as soon as he Cloud and Chaos switched Bravery and then Bam OWNED!

  • @albertoespejo7121
    @albertoespejo7121 10 лет назад +2

    i just really love final fantasies music...

  • @everettwatsonrazorearcwolf6553
    @everettwatsonrazorearcwolf6553 8 лет назад +3

    When To Zanakard start playing it gave him hope

    • @MrJostur
      @MrJostur 4 года назад +1

      _It gave _*_all of us_*_ hope._

  • @awesomeerr8765
    @awesomeerr8765 8 лет назад +26

    who cares if you spam omni v5. its a game. i spammed it all the time to win. i didnt care about not being a so called noob its a fucking game jeez.

  • @kleavennklvz4572
    @kleavennklvz4572 7 лет назад +3

    You know what I was thinking while watching this?
    If the Feral Chaos in the 'tutorial' stage the starting section of a new game is defeatable.
    Do Lightning level 1 no equip, acc & summons vs the Lv 255 Feral Chaos?

    • @Riki-Ryugasaki
      @Riki-Ryugasaki 6 лет назад

      But cloud strife do alot of damge and he has more than acc and equepment and summon cause his attacks help more than lightning and he has boost ground evasoin and boost midiar evaision and boost in speed air dash and his hp attacks lvl 1 do bravy damage and lightning attacks lvl 1 has no bravy damage just hp and he has invincibility because the boost of the evaision

    • @RafaelRodriguesAxelyexNobody
      @RafaelRodriguesAxelyexNobody 6 лет назад

      KleaVenn well, yes it is possible for lightning to defeat feral chaos lvl 255. The AI for feral chaos in custom battles is not the same as in campaign mode also in custom games his summon can swap bravery and even freeze bravery i think. You would need a bit of luck and a lot of time to do it, but yes, it is possible.

  • @jhonxiolon
    @jhonxiolon 7 лет назад +3

    Here's my custom replay button: 11:21

  • @wvmy
    @wvmy 5 лет назад

    That music end tho 👀

  • @TehSephirothSpirit
    @TehSephirothSpirit 13 лет назад

    I admire your patience. This is quite the hard challenge.

  • @MarcoATNO
    @MarcoATNO 9 лет назад +3

    What's the name of the song at 11:21?

  • @XSparksterX556
    @XSparksterX556 9 лет назад +2

    dude your freaking good! amazing job!

  • @NaglTheGreat
    @NaglTheGreat 12 лет назад

    Once you master his bravery attacks that have a little yellow diamond on the side, you can equip/use them.

  • @coelloello
    @coelloello 12 лет назад +1

    I've realised 3 things watching these 12 minutes of AWESOME:
    1) Just how BOSS Cloud really is :P
    2) How much of a complete NOOB I still am despite beating Chaos a couple of days ago and thinking to myself at the time 'DAMN I'M GOOD!'
    3) How much I really do LOVE the music of Final Fantasy. Seriously, there is no equal.

  • @Bunchdude
    @Bunchdude 11 лет назад

    Man I remember when I had Dissidia, it's still my favorite game of all time. I used to be this good but I havn't played for years so i probably suck now. props man

  • @Gears360net
    @Gears360net  12 лет назад +3

    I have a level 1 vs 100 Sephiroth from the first game and from my experience with that, it's monotonous to watch/play, due to having to spam the same few moves over and over since those are the only ones you have. Cloud's nerfed braver would also makes this difficult to achieve, although its much more impressive.
    I generally tried to copy the feel of the hero gets beaten down before being triumphant like you see in movies, and some of my videos show it far better than others.

  • @BohepansTheThird
    @BohepansTheThird 12 лет назад

    I also have a level 1 character versus Level 100 Sephiroth video on my channel, from original Dissidia. Interesting! Who did you choose to play as?
    And, granted, the one video I saw of someone doing that, that is, a level 1 character against Feral Chaos, it took over 20 minutes - but Adjust Level does allow you to keep all your moves and learned abilities; it just puts your stats at what they would be at the chosen level, and changes what equipment you can equip to also match the chosen level.

  • @EpiKerCovers
    @EpiKerCovers 11 лет назад +2

    I just love Terra's theme in the background...

  • @BohepansTheThird
    @BohepansTheThird 12 лет назад

    It's mostly useful for KP grinding, due to the Bonus Lines on dungeons starting with Scenario 013 being unlocked. A shame original Dissidia didn't have that function, on Duodecim, but I guess before Duodecim, there would have been no need for it so it wasn't thought of yet.

  • @chrysshawkey3158
    @chrysshawkey3158 12 лет назад

    In the 000 story, its actually 5 on 1, but i usually see it done with 3 at most.

  • @Jonnycastaway32
    @Jonnycastaway32 12 лет назад

    I want an mp3 of this song. I know it's just a bunch of different songs transitioning but I want it.

  • @weaponsofsalvation
    @weaponsofsalvation 11 лет назад +15

    Squall is overpowered, and we all love that.
    HOW DO YA LIKE THI- This... IS I-! YOU'RE GON-! TAKE THI-!
    Spamming.

  • @kewldude475
    @kewldude475 13 лет назад

    @sk8terforlife1234 Wait...from KH BBS? I can't watch the video now so I don't remmber. I've played BBS so many times i should know, lol.
    Or Terra from FFVI?

  • @austinuchiha2931
    @austinuchiha2931 9 лет назад +1

    That HP of Feral Chaos though

  • @balrog0444
    @balrog0444 12 лет назад

    And that is why you never comment until you've watched the whole video xD This guy is legitimately one of the best players I've ever seen, if not THE best.

  • @rOvertJustice
    @rOvertJustice 12 лет назад +1

    LOL. Cloud: "I can handle this." --> Major pwnage ensues.

  • @HaloMaster105
    @HaloMaster105 11 лет назад

    The songs are from the Distant Worlds playlist.

  • @tsutl84
    @tsutl84 12 лет назад

    Did you not see him show that he was using Exp to HP ability? In Dissidia your exp is given per successful HP damage hit, not all at the end of the battle. That is why you can regain so much HP so quickly if you are good at fighting.

  • @wtfnohackerspls
    @wtfnohackerspls 8 лет назад +5

    A lvl 255 feral chaos vs a lvl 255 chaos normal form who would win

    • @0axis771
      @0axis771 8 лет назад +8

      Normal Chaos because he has 3 fight versions. XD

  • @KidoKat
    @KidoKat 4 года назад

    I nailed this with cloud spamming omnislash and squall lightning magic and fated circle. Never doing this again

  • @silversunset23
    @silversunset23 12 лет назад

    So, it's not just one long track with different pieces of songs in it, its just good editing?

  • @cyberjf2
    @cyberjf2 12 лет назад

    Thats the final boss from the last chapter of the game which i completly forgot the name ._.
    If you manage to win it you can use it as a playable character unlike Chaos.

  • @fgriese52
    @fgriese52 12 лет назад

    this is a updated version of The Song of the Esper from FFX

  • @Chayraz2
    @Chayraz2 12 лет назад

    All character regain health in EX mode unless you use the ability bravery regen, which converts the extra health into bravery.

  • @TheNinjaofShadows
    @TheNinjaofShadows 13 лет назад

    @CrimsonVermillioneye apparently you dont go to the labyrinth do you

  • @eileocallyxi
    @eileocallyxi 12 лет назад

    Does anyone know what song this is that is playing? I must find it. O,..,O it's too glorious.

  • @PrinceDoebler
    @PrinceDoebler 12 лет назад

    He's using a bunch of the tracks from the Distant Worlds albums. I recognize the orchestral arrangements of J-E-N-O-V-A, The Man with the Machine Gun, etc.

  • @Khrene
    @Khrene 12 лет назад

    Well it's their "Bravery" and doesn't reflect their health
    You can attack in two ways: one to deal damage to your opponents health or HP (meter in blue) and another to raise your own "Bravery" and lower your opponents.
    The you have more Bravery you have, the more damage you do when you attack the opponents HP.
    So the numbers above the Health bar are their potential to do damage to each other, and whenever you see an attack with name box in the top, its an HP attack.

  • @Maxisamo1
    @Maxisamo1 11 лет назад +1

    What's with the music in the backround?

  • @Lakword2
    @Lakword2 12 лет назад

    Whats the title of music what plays at start? I cant find it anywhere and I so love it

  • @jeffthekiller628
    @jeffthekiller628 9 лет назад +16

    You're good holy shit...you're fucking god

  • @Leafia_Barrett
    @Leafia_Barrett 12 лет назад

    Hey, um, where did you get that remix of the standard battle theme of FFX? The one that starts at 8:10. :

  • @spoogiwoogi
    @spoogiwoogi 5 лет назад

    Ah I remember this, I had fun on killing Feral Chaos over and over again with Iai Strike. The times.

  • @miloseagle7310
    @miloseagle7310 4 года назад

    I remember finishing that fight with save state and load states haha

  • @xXTh3W0lfXx
    @xXTh3W0lfXx 9 лет назад +3

    Nice battle. But seriously, I know that you used some spezial items and you were good equiped. But you were a bit lucky too. (At least 1 time)

  • @blazetrinity9462
    @blazetrinity9462 2 месяца назад

    Feral chaos felt way easier to fight compared to OG Chaos. Also, why the Ultimecia assist? I would use kuja for easier cheese lol.

  • @SushiBurritoPapi
    @SushiBurritoPapi 4 года назад +2

    NT’s massive failure brought me here

  • @1Zackdark2
    @1Zackdark2 12 лет назад

    Como conseguiste esas canciones...? Te agradeceria mucho si me dijeras porfas!!! :)

  • @Freesiappe
    @Freesiappe 10 лет назад +5

    Guys,what's the name of this song?

    • @vjopepirozhok
      @vjopepirozhok 10 лет назад +9

      Darude - sandstorm.

    • @joes.6448
      @joes.6448 9 лет назад +2

      Rythli Drake Fuck, quit spreading bunk info, people hate fuckers like you that do that. It's ACTUALLY Darude - Sandstorm, like someone else already mentioned.

    • @DarkAnsem88
      @DarkAnsem88 9 лет назад

      Joe S. No it's not.

    • @Mettalus
      @Mettalus 9 лет назад

      Joe S. No, your spreading the bullshit. Its obviously Sandstorm - Darude!

    • @Reitenshii
      @Reitenshii 9 лет назад

      EpicNolegs What is Sandstorm - Darude?
      I only heard about Darude - Sandstorm.

  • @Shadowcynder1830
    @Shadowcynder1830 13 лет назад

    O.o Wow... I would never be able to do that. Nice battle!
    Btw... What's the music that starts at 4:13 , 6:01 and 11:22?

  • @angryshift4658
    @angryshift4658 3 года назад

    Well played, but what difficulty was it on🤔?

  • @Leafia_Barrett
    @Leafia_Barrett 12 лет назад

    Where did you get that remix of FFX's normal battle theme?

  • @cloud6742
    @cloud6742 8 лет назад +1

    Wait is this in the story mode or just quick battle

  • @ADRICAZALLA6
    @ADRICAZALLA6 12 лет назад +1

    what is the first music 0:20 - 1:10

  • @Demonboy007
    @Demonboy007 12 лет назад +1

    The theme sounds like an orchestra version of Terra's theme. Am I correct?

  • @Anemite
    @Anemite 13 лет назад

    @PrinceDoebler i forgot about exp+ items, but still recovering more than the damage deal doesnt sound logic to me, i guess i should try a exp+ build to try it out and check from myself if he indeed cheat or use a really useful build

  • @awww-x9z
    @awww-x9z 6 лет назад

    7:35 good saving 😘

  • @RedStriker212
    @RedStriker212 12 лет назад

    What theme is it that's playing throughout this battle? I know it is a medley of sorts, but as for the name of it....

  • @JBlackJay
    @JBlackJay 12 лет назад

    Dude...AMAZING!!! Also songs used please?

  • @LovecraftsCatName
    @LovecraftsCatName 12 лет назад +1

    So i guess that Cloud has no .... hard feelings

  • @elogano
    @elogano 9 лет назад +19

    Those who ask for the background music... are not true fans of the saga xD

    • @rocketdog734
      @rocketdog734 8 лет назад +3

      I've only played FF3, 4, and Ex. 6 and a half minutes in, and I can already point out the FF6 boss theme and the FF8 battle theme. XD
      I wasn't paying attention to the first few minutes, though

    • @elogano
      @elogano 8 лет назад +3

      +Masao “Game Master” Uchiha cool bro

  • @ssbbdiego
    @ssbbdiego 8 лет назад +1

    Sound track of these plz.

  • @ArmoredChocoboLPs
    @ArmoredChocoboLPs 5 лет назад +2

    I hate Chaos so much.
    Cloud's definitely the best option, though. He can EX fast and his EX mode is a guard-breaker. All his best bravery attacks chain into HP attacks very easily.

    • @Kizur13
      @Kizur13 4 года назад

      I remember when I fought him I went through 4 other characters, only having Sephiroth left. I won, but it still sucked something awful. I'd imagine Exdeath or Jecht would be really easy to beat him with as long as you can utilize their defenses right.