From the look of the original damage, the bumper is to thin to take the flexing load from the long arm of the rack. All you have done is moved the area outwards. Given enough time, the same failure will occur. Remember, a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. As for your welding, I don't normally bag someone about their welding, but as you are doing it for reward and your customers may not know any better, you need to get a lot better before carrying out repairs that could allow items to be strewn across the highway when they fail. You are not a good enough welder to be carrying out repairs where failure could cause injury or death.
In addition to your strengthening up of the bumper I would suggest shimming the receiver to stop that whole rack from shaking. Thats what I would have mentioned in your opening dialog because that alone would have slowed down the weakening and fatigue that broke the bumper in the first place. I think your comments are very welcome if only folks knew how weak these bumpers are good job.
Great video most people have no idea how un safe this is. It would have been better to replace the 4" cheap thin stock bumper with a much thicker 5" square bumper channel available at most any metal supplier.
I carry 4 bikes on the back of my trailer, but I have the weight carried off the back wall my 2 cross-crossed ratchet straps. You need to take any movement out of the rack otherwise you will still have a failure of the rack and it bumper! I have over 3k miles on my setup and it's still solid.
I'm not a welder, but I've spent plenty of time around production welding and manufacturing welds. Looking at those welds, I wouldn't trust them to hold up around the block, let alone carrying stuff on a vacation road trip. If you have to grind your welds to make them look good, you're not a welder, you're a grinder.
It amazes me that I came across this video. Was outside today trying to figure out how to mount a bike rack over my spare tire. I have a very cheap bumper, it's only a channel not a tube. Will be replacing it after watching this. thanks for sharing.
Glad you saw my video, better safe than sorry. Good luck with your project. You may like my RV mods section on my website. raywhyte.ca Thanks for commenting.
Some travel trailer bumpers do have a heavier guage 4in. square tube. Building heavier isn't always better though. If you put on too heavy a square tube, and if there is a failure, for example you are rear ended, then the trailer frame would probably receive more damage, than the bumper, therefore resulting in a far more extensive and costly repairs.
jgeb k yes indeed. And particularly welding on a frame of something going down the open road. When it comes to frames you REALLY have to up your welding game. Former UAW. ;-)
I think all those bumpers were meant to carry was a sewer hose. However, you've given that bumper a whole new life...That was an outstanding repair. No RV shop would have put so much time and effort into the job. Good stuff!!!
+joey1127 The bumper is stronger than ever, despite the criticism about my welding. I agree the welds aren't pretty but after three passes, they are plenty strong. I think people can still use their bumpers to carry bikes as long as they tie them back to the frame rails as shown in the video. You have to make sure you take any possible whipping action out of the bike carrier. Thanks for commenting.
I've recently watched a bike rack fall off an RV. There was nothing I could do but get out of the way! No one got hurt and they pulled over. They must of had a rear view camera.
Great idea with the Eye Bolts and straps to the top of the bike rack. It will greatly reduce dynamic loading and metal fatigue on the bumper when the trailer travels over bumps or dips in the road surface. I imagine shocks on the trailer will also help.
Standard 4" square bumpers were not designed to take any weight at all. This is so common. The easiest and best solution is to use the 4SQUARE SafetyStruts to reinforce the bumper. With four bolts and 20 minutes of time, your bumper can be reinforced to hold 300lbs of weight and give you the peace of mind that your bumper will be secure. www.mount-n-lock.com
+Frank Fenneran You and I know that but it would appear the rest of the world doesn't, that's the purpose of the video. Help spread the word Frank, before someones debris hurts somebody. Thanks for your comment and suggestion.
I think you guys should have replaced the complete tube of the bumper with higher grade tubing, that seems very light and it will end breaking on patch edges all over again
I am not trying to critical but I agree with you. I have been restoring & building custom travel trailers for 41 rears - retired now - Yes these are not even bumpers but are meant to carry sewer hoses. I have seen these so called bumpers actually bend the light gage steel bumper - carrier - at the point of a bike mounted carrier when people use a 4 bike rack as I have know them to be. The leverage and twisting caused by 4 bikes that hand hang way out will do it every time. I would not have taken the time to repair the stock tube in my opinion like I stated the repaired tube might just bend in the middle even with your repair. I am 71 now and have seen most everything people do in regards to their RV's overtime. Thank You
+Ray Whyte I totally understand and hopefully they will not be back with their decision. By the way I have no issue what so ever with your repair and or welding. I have tried to express my opinions to customers in regards to some of their decisions but the customer is always right. You really did a nice repair and I thought as much in your case the customer gets what they pay for. Thank You & Cheers
My congratulations on your ability to "repair" the costly "mistake" or "misjudgment" of the capability of the bumper to hold something it wasn't designed to do. A man of your talent should be able to look at the bumper and realize it isn't designed to be carrying bikes (or anything else!) bouncing down the highway being stretched and stressed beyond its design. Perhaps, you could use your welding ability to finding something heavy duty and welding it to the RV frame; that way, you only have to worry about voiding your RV warranty (if it's still under warranty). Otherwise, find a RV that is offered with a "luggage system" from a mfg that will do what you want to do. Y'all Be Safe!
We had this exact problem. We paid $450 for a new bumper with bolsters, and the bumper they put on was not big enough inside for the hoses! The outside dimensions were perfect but, of course, the inside was not large enough because of the thicker walls. FAIL. We sucked it up and are going to put in a piece of PVC to hold them near the dump. I like the idea of strapping the bike rack to the frame to take out the wobble. I'm sure that's a huge factor.
Great video, my husband and I watched this together and he is also a very handy man. We are also RVers and are getting ready to purchase a hitch for a cargo carrier/bike rack or whatever we need. This was a very informative video and we appreciate you taking the time to create it. We learned a lot and you have given us some new great ideas. Thank you.
Thanks for this! Very helpful... Fortunately, I always carry a welding shop; a metal fabrication shop; a machine shop; and a CNC with me when I go boondocking. I like to be prepared because one never knows when one's rear bumper will snap off from overloading it with too much stuff......
Not to be rude but as a 10 years certified welder I can tell from the video you have no heat penetration in the bumper it's probably more dangerous cause your going to load equal or heavier stuff now that you think it's fiixed. That little Flux might welder is hard to do on metal with different thicknesses.
Thank you for warning people about this! I think the tin bumpers being unable to carry weight may also help prevent travel trailer owners from carrying heavy cargo thus losing tongue weight on the front which in turn "will" cause the trailer to sway and possibly crash. Any weight added to the rear must be compensated for and added to the front so the proper ball tongue weight is kept. Not doing this will be worse than the bumper failing.. Most manufactures will tell you not to carry loads on the rear of travel trailers because of this as many people already know..
I have to agree with other reviewers that the welds are at risk of cracking due to poor penetration. To minimize the wobble of bike rack on any PROPERLY installed car/truck/trailer receiver, search 'hitch anti-wobble' or 'hitch anti-rattle' for various solutions. I used a combination of the 'MaxxTow Anti-Rattle' and a 'Locking Silent Hitch Pin' to nearly eliminate movement of the hitch. The locking pin also reduces theft risk.
I would like to make a Cautionary Note about Holding Tanks in general. My understanding most are made from a polycarbonate or fiberglass material, (plastic). Most have a continuous flange around the top portion of the tank. Many are supported by the vehicle chassis frame from this flange. Don’t make the mistake I did thinking it was OK to travel with these tank partially or full. They will crack open and break at this location in due time, creating the worst mistake you made in a long time. Especially if you’re RV has a full metal covered under belly full of insulation? Play it smart, do it yourself or have your dealer inspect and or install additional supports to the tanks underbelly to take the heavy load of these flanges and really support the tanks. Happy travels
What I did to prevent the typical thin wall square tube bumper from failing was to remove it entirely and replace it with 4 inch channel iron welded firmly to the trailers 4 inch channel iron frame rails. Then I welded on a 2 inch i.d. receiver so now I have a slide in removable bike rack that isn't going anywhere. I mounted a 5"x5" square plastic fence post with end caps under the trailer for the sewer hose.
I planned on pulling a small trailer with a 4 wheeler and coolers behind my 5th wheel. I just got a piece of 4-inch angle iron that just fit in-between the inside of the frame. welded it to the frame and along with the square tubing. then welded a receiver for the hitch. Fairly cheap, easy and strong.
I have been hauling bikes on the back of three different travel trailers over a 35 year period. The bumper is not the problem. The bike rack is not the problem. The hitch is the problem. With the proper hitch there is no problem. If you want to help people tell them the truth. Never, ever use a bumper mounted hitch. I always make my own hitches. Frame mounts that have no impact on the bumper. You are correct that if you are using a bumper mounted hitch, you are headed for trouble.
You know what those travel trailers are using very thin metal steel for those bumpers. I think that is the major problems here. My Class A has huge thick metal frames and its connected to the back of the Class 5 hitch aint going nowhere with that. Good job on the weld and metal plate
A bumper should have a much heavier gauge steel tube stock. I replaced mine with 1/4 inch 4x4 stock and also the arms and cross member. You have to do this to get the same strength rating as the hitch assembly and when you tie them both together they share the load for towing or carrying gear in/on a rack.
10 out of 10 for your efforts & ideas. Your welding will improve with time. A welding course is highly recommended, it certainly helped me with my welding prowess. l enjoy welding & making/repairing things. After numerous welding courses l am now qualified as a Fitter/Welder. ( Fitter & Turner by trade ).
I liked the idea of the patch, also would have replaced the whole thing with a heavier metal bumper, but seeing as you don't own this and it is up to the owner to decide how much money to put into a repair or to just replace the bumper. I thought it was a decent looking job of welding, but hey, I am no expert. You did good Ray Whyte, you did what you were commissioned to do, repair the bumper.
Being aware of the potential stress on the bumpers, I have always used a strap to tie the rack back to the frame. I've never had a problem over 5 years with a large Yakima swing-away rack carrying three bikes. Luckily, my new (1 yr old) camper has the I-beam frame notched and supports the bumper underneath as well. I do still use the strap though!
I have often wondered how much weight you can cantilever way back behind the rear axle before it affects your steering. a lot of people seem to think that if you can attach it to the vehicle, it is all OK.A stationary vehicle has dead weight on the bumper, equal to the scale weight of the load. But when you hit a hole or dip, the dynamic weight of that same load can be multiplied several times. For instance, you may be able to pick up an anvil. But if someone throws you the same anvil from a second story window, you probably won't be able to hold off the ground. That is dynamic weight.
You have brought up an interesting question. There is obviously a point where too much weight will create handling problems. Without hiring an engineer to calculate that figure, caution is of the utmost importance. All I can do is relate my own experience and can offer no recommendations. I added a total of 60 lbs which included the supporting frame and lightweight aluminum box. I moved the spare tire to a spot under the trailer belly in front of the axles, that took off 30 lbs. see ruclips.net/video/wnhYriKkJoI/видео.html for this mod. I added about 80 lbs. of gear in the box. This sounds like a grade 7 math question but if you are following along, I have added approximately 110 lbs to the bumper. I travelled for a season and had no handling problems at all. The next season I modified my storage by moving the storage box to the right side of the bumper extension to make space for a generator weighting in at 175 lbs. see ruclips.net/video/sSSB1MqN99k/видео.html for this mod. BIG MISTAKE! The mod looked good, fit like a glove, and worked perfectly but was too much weight. It totally through out the handling and sent us into a uncontrolled sway when we were descending a steep hill. I crossed 2 oncoming lanes before gaining control by applying trailer brakes only. Needless to say you know what my next project was. The generator now travels in the pickup box.
You could probably calculate it in foot pounds. The owners manual usually gives maximum tow ball load down, not pulling. . Multiply each load by its distance from the axle to get foot pounds, and divide by distance from the axle to the tow ball. That will give you pounds of load at the ball. Do that for all your additional loads, and add them up. Compare with maximum ball load. But with each pound, your vehicle has less traction at the front wheels,which could be significant on gravel, ice, or less than dry-load steering situations. There will be a gradual change in steering, not sudden good/bad change. Have some fun with your calculator. LOL
These bumpers are light duty prestressed steel. Wap an eighth inch by at least four in wide strap and across the back a 1"×2 reinforcer tagged to the straps. Thats the way I would have fixed it. But yours is good. I would have pressed the strap between two heavy steel flat pieces in the vice, heated and bent it, the attached. Have had to do this with other things.
I work in fabrication in the oil industry, building drilling rigs. I've seen that patch hundreds of times though we didn't use it for that purpose. We used a huge hydraulic brake to form that part. Your interior support would still be iffy at best bending it while tacked down. occasionally, our welders would cheat it using a wooden block with some vices if the break didn't get it close enough(some of our dyes weren't able to get parts exactly how the prints asked for).
+Kevin Moore Thanks for your comment, my 50 ton brake press was at the cleaners, and this job just had to get done, so the old torch was all I had. LOL Thanks for watching.
I see people all the time do that with their bumpers. I saw a Honda EU3000 (150lbs) rip a bumper right off). I stick welded 3x3x 3/8" tube steel across to the the I-Beams then welded a 2" receiver to that, then shored it up with stiffener plates (full pin weld). It took about 45 minutes and $25 in remnant steel from the yard.
+Lenny Dearth It is a problem because there are no warnings to RV owners of the possibility of failure. Just help spread the word. Lenny thanks for your comment, good work on the repair.
It would be great to see a vid of what you did. I'm not a welder myself but my brother is and it'd be good to have something to show him and say 'can you do this for me?" :)
Nice job Ray ! I'm buying a little R- Pod and am a newbie. Retired Chief Lineman ,a handyman but not a welder (yet) but might take a course. This video is great for not only it's technical education but for safety also. I wouldn't have liked being behind someone that lost on the highway.
Nice vid. I am in the planning stages for full time rv living. I am an avid cyclist and will have 3-4 bikes with me that I will need to transport and store. This type of incident would have been $15,000+ of bikes bouncing across asphalt. Not a pleasant thought. I'm looking at a van and building a rack system in the rear of the cargo area, same thing in a capped pickup, converting a bunk area to bike storage in the RV, and some possible outside rack system on the RV. Will definitely look at beefing up the rear RV bumper if I go decide to transport bikes back there. Thanks for the heads up.
Thanks for this video. That's exactly what I was going to do with a 5 bike rack from Thule. I'll now pay close attention to the bumper and the play. Just bought a Travel Trailer and prepare for a 8 mo full-time trip (will be posting videos on RUclips).
+Keep Your Daydream Make sure you reinforce the bumper properly and that there is no whip in the bike rack. I would suggest you use a roof carrier on the tow vehicle if possible. to reduce the bumper weight. Five bikes is pushing it. Good luck and have a great trip. For more handy tips on preparing your new trailer, download my PDF e-book "ROUGHING IT SMOOTHLY" from my home page on my web site. It is free, no registration or obligation, just enjoy. www.raywhyte.ca
Whoa.... just found this video when researching stuff myself and I've been watching your channel for years haha, crazy to see a comment from a channel from years ago lol
I have been in the RV Business for 38 years. The back bumper is to hold a sewer hose and a spare tire, that is all. You would have been better off to replace the whole bumper with heavier material. Basically, you have spent a lot of time and have not accomplished much in the way making the bumper any stronger.
A reply to Dwight Stewart This actually happened as described in the video without any extra forces as you assume. There was no extra force on the bumper except for the whipping action of the poorly fitting bike carrier. This happened on an undulating highway and not some bush road. There were 4 bikes, 2 children's bikes and 2 adult light weight mountain bikes. I estimate the weight including the rack was 160 lbs. but that is just a guess. I inspected the bumpers torn holes and there were slight signs of rust and corrosion(I point this out in the video @ 3:03). This might indicate that the factory welds to the frame were not solid and protected enough with paint. This is simply a good example of the force that can be generated by a leaver. I'm not suggesting you use these bumpers for carrying bikes, generators, storage boxes, etc. without substantial reinforcement and by all means prevent the load from whipping while under way. You are responsible for securing your loads. Safety first!
It is called Metal Fatigue. Poor design and too much weight. A length of 2" HSS Square Tubing should be bolted to the bumper with a pair of long U bolts and run back under the trailer to a solid connection. Rack with over priced bicycle should be bolted to that. Get a MIG welder with Shielding.
I appreciate your video as a newbie who has added a bike carrier to my RV. I have shimmed the carrier hitch as Powder River suggested so that most of the wobble is gone, and I have only 2 bikes. Even so, I have observed that the length of the carrier could present a significant twisting force to the square tube.The square tubing is recessed into the RV sheet metal such that I am not able to add tie downs per your suggestions but I will see about fishing the tie downs under the sheet metal. It would be helpful to understand the time frame over which the failure occurred, and whether walk-arounds would have identified the problem before total failure. Thank you.
The failure of this bumper was a combination of 3 things. Number 1, there were signs of rust in behind the bumper at its original mounts. Number 2, the torque and weight of the bikes & rack was strong enough to peel the bumper off it's original welds. Number 3, the bumper was too thin to support the weight. In retrospect, I should have talked the owner into a heavier gauge steel bumper but he wanted it fixed with the original. Good Luck. Thanks for commenting.
Thank you for taking the time to make the video. I'm not a welder, so I can't comment on that....but I do appreciate the insight as to what can happen, and a good way to avoid that. My bumper is still intact....and may well stay that way thanks to your video. Thanks again!
I have a different setup and could put bikes on the back of mine but don't. Last trailer I owned had a 2" receiver. Perfect I thought! Put on the bike rack and off we went. The extra weight of 4 bikes behind the rear axle sure made for a bouncy ride! Never again. Bikes hang over the tailgate of the truck now. Extra weight now always sits over or in front of the axle whenever possible and depending on just how much weight etc.
Thank you for the video. I added a bumper receiver just yesterday and am thinking i'll add a couple of ratchet straps to either side of the bike rack and loop them around the bumper support beams to remove any wobble whatsoever until I get the bumper retrofitted. I also reversed the mount on the bumper so that the plate is on the front and inserted a small washer between the receiver and the hitch insert to help fill the gap between the two.
>First Rule: NEVER EVER attach anything to the sewer hose storage tube!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They call it a bumper because it will sometime push a folding chair or picnic table out of the way when u back into them.....lol! There are many types of adapters available that have a cross beam that attaches to the trailer frame with a light weight receiver. Most are bolt on so they can be easily installed, no welding, and can usually be moved to ur next RV!
The he would burn through that think metal. Is not hard to burn through that metal. Very thin and with heat is more apt to burn through as the welding continues.
I made the mistake of utilizing a better bike rack on a much stronger bumper set up and I also used the ratchet straps for additional support. It was a bad idea but I was lucky since I had a tent trailer I could see the bikes bouncing. The back of the trailer is like riding in the back of the bus. It's far bumpier (violent really) and you compound the problem with the ill fitting shaky bike rack (not your fault but the manufacturers design problems). If you have a trailer that size you can store the bikes in the trailer or mount them on the "A" frame at the front of the trailer or if you have a camper trailer bike racks fit nicely on the top. Never use the back of the trailer to mount anything. (once bitten twice shy...)
I have welded things, like tables and hand carts. I don't know what I am doing, learn as I go, I have gotten better but I still suck. But what I know is if one of my welds breaks it is no big deal, you sir, better be certain that your weld does not hurt someone if it drops off on the highway. Better have good insurance. If my loved one was injured by a jury rigged item on public roads, by an uncertified welder/tech, you can bet I would be standing before a jury, if you get my drift.
Thank you for your comment. I realize my welds are not pretty, but I have been doing this for many years and too many projects to count. Your concern for safety is noted. But this bumper is also bolted to the frame ensuring a failure will not happen. By the way, I have never had a weld fail as most people assume will happen.
There were likely more factors at play than simply the action of the bike mount-movement. storing your sewer hose is one I can think of, which would accelerate deterioration of those already poorly mounted bumper joints. Those should have been externally reinforced at the factory.
I am by no means knowlegeable in metal working, and have a few questions. Why not replace the old bumper with a newer one of heavier gauge steel and add extra support to that in the form of L-brackets welded to the bumper and bolted to the frame? Also if the original bumper was not damaged and you know of this situation, do two things. A: Add L-Brackets to the bumper and bolt them to the frame and B: Modify the mounting system for the mounting rack to stop the sway, say by putting wedges to take up too much room. Why did you not measure and pre-shape the repair plate before welding to the old bumper? Thank you for answering the question of an ignorant person.
I haven't read every comment but I want to put this out there. You have used your years of knowledge to reassure these owners of the trailer that it is okay to mount a trailer hitch to that bumper. Everyone knows or should know that you don't attach a trailer hitch to even a car bumper. Anyone that has bothered to read an owners manual knows that a trailer hitch HAS TO BE mounted to the frame of the vehicle. I learned that when I was 10 years old because i saw a bumper ripped off the back of a station wagon. What happens when these people put a trailer ball into the receiver and tow something on the back of this trailer. I hope you have good insurance or you are so poor that the people behind this set up decide not to sue you when this bike rack falls off in front of their vehicle. You remind me of my Dad. Find some parts around the house, a scrap here, a scrap there and make it work. That's fine if it's your vehicle but don't do it to others.The reason shops charge the big bucks to install these things is because they have to have liability insurance to pay the damages caused by people that don't understand that steel has its limits.. People see a 4 inch square of steel and think it is as rigid and strong as steel on a bridge or the steel post holding up their deck.. People don't realize just how much steel can bend. I was the same way until I talked to fabricators and they showed me how flimsy it is comparatively. You should have explained to them with the website of Thule, the bike rack manufacturer, that this model was meant for a mounted hitch assembly installed at the factory or at least by a competent business taking into consideration others on the road. A product that is engineered to give a certain strength based on the size and the quality of the steel used along with the use of high strength bolts that won't break as the Chinese products do. Then if they wanted to nickle rig it together anyway, you should have told them you wont do it because you don't want to be responsible for the death of the people driving behind them. They already had their warning how far were they going to push their luck. Don't tell me they were going to leave it in God's hands. I know you're proud of your work and it does work and was a cheap fix. Cowabunga dude, but it's not right for the customer. You missed out on a teaching moment.
+Tim Steinkamp Thanks for watching, you put a lot of thought into you comment. Be assured, they have been warned and are limiting the weight on the 4 place bike rack to two light weight bikes. They bought another carrier for the roof of the tow vehicle.
Well.... first of all, the RV's or Travel Trailer bumpers are nonhit else than a very thing sheet metal square tubing... I replaced the bumpre by a real Square Tubing attached with 1/4 in brackets, bolted directly to the RV's Chassis... now, you can hang anything you want from the bumper. Another important note is that everytime I place something on my hitch, I attached an anti-sway device. This will avoid the play than can eventualy break off your bumper.
The only thing I would store in the bumper is sand or concrete to give it rigidity as it stand take a hit in the arse end and the bumper would be totalled To be honest you should of scrapped the bumper because with the failure as it was the van was a write off.. From insurance perspective..
I had my bumper replaced with a heavier gage metal, then a doubler on the frame three feet forward and rehung the corner jacks to thicker mounting plates.IF you really want to use the bumper and not worry do it right
We nearly rolled over an 18' 1988 Prowler by putting a heavy bike rack with bikes on it. It was just heavy enough to take enough weight off the tongue that the rig turned into a sway nightmare. Keep your weight and balance in mind with smaller trailers! We later put this bike rack on a 1992 27' Wilderness 5th wheel. Unlike the Prowler, this newer rig had a much thinner bumper and it literally bent from the weight of the bikes and bike rack. I figured out a roof rack on the truck itself was the best option. Keeps the weight off the trailer and the bumper!
+Robert Bell Robert, bin there done that. We had a proper bumper setup to carry lots of weight(first mistake). Installed a 200 lb.generator and storage box on bumper setup(second mistake). Didn't gear down on steep grade(third mistake). Now the 7800 lb. trailer is pushing us faster and faster(fourth mistake). Now the whipping sway of the trailers is starting, the trailer is steering us(butt cheeks are at maximum tightness). The whole truck and trailer are crossing three lanes into the oncoming lanes(there is a God, no on coming traffic). Held the steering tight and straight while manually applying only the trailer brakes and finally brought everything into a controlled stop by applying all the brakes once it was slowed down and sway was under control.(first thing I did right). The vehicle behind me stopped to compliment me on my superb driving skill. He thought we were going upside down.(thanked him and said no big deal). Wiped the sweat from my brow, the air in the cab was still fresh.(no change of shorts required). Watch the weight back there people. You will never forget the sway of death ride.
Ray Whyte Sounds like my experience! We had the trailer up on one wheel and were in the median. The guy behind use was sure we were going to roll. I learned a few lessons that day: 1. Make sure the tow vehicle tow capacity is well above the trailer weight (we had a Toyota mini-truck with a 3,000 lb tow capacity and the Prowler weighed 3,000 lbs). 2. Check tongue weight, it should be 10-15% of the trailer weight. 3. If it's white knuckles on the wheel all the time, the lashup is no good. If you can't take your hands off the wheel, something isn't right. We have a Casita now, which weighs about 3,000 lbs and a Frontier which is rated for 6,500 lbs. It is a very stable lashup, even with a blowout. I don't attach things to the rear bumper of pull-behinds anymore. Even 100-200 lbs on the rear of a small trailer is enough to take an equivalent amount off the hitch, and result in a dynamically unstable rig. The Prowler handled better once we removed the bike rack. Handled perfectly once we bought an F-150 to tow it with....
+Robert Bell Thanks for your input, I'm afraid most new towers just hook up and go. Our licenses should need an endorsement showing some training. All to often people learn because of a tragedy. Or damage to their new trailer. It is no different for motor homes except for a required air ticket. Ya anybody can drive a bus?
Ray Whyte We've seen it all in our travels and also on I-95 which goes by our house. French Canadians in particular seem to look at tow ratings as mere suggestions. We've seen three-axle airstream trailers being towed by Chrysler minivans, Dodge Magnums, and even a Mercedes E-class wagon. None of which have a tow rating anywhere near the weight of those monsters. I guess we all have to learn the hard way!
Great work. Nice to see home fabricating which is a lost art!! Light weight trailers and heavy weight junk. The bumper is thin and super cheap..also, if poop pipe is carried inside there is more rust to deal with.
Interesting, and useful. Nicely done video. Our 5th wheel has a fiberglass rear cap, and as such has no bumper. I did order it with a trailer hitch which the manufacturer clearly states is for 100# or less. Nonetheless, we have friends who loaded theirs up with bikes and ultimately dragged them down the road when the jounce & metal fatigue won out. Short of having a craftsman fabricate something much more sturdy, we won't be using it! Thanks again. Cheers!
+Ball Coach Thank you, this is important information for Trailer owners. Spread the word and share this video. ruclips.net/video/YIwtglKiBwk/видео.html
Okay, the *trailer itself would have been ripped apart at the seams* long before rough terrain and a couple of lightweight mountain bicycles could have caused that amount of damage. The bumpers aren't that flimsy, so something else (far more weight on the bumper, kids repeatedly playing on the bike mount, etc) happened here.
I agree that the owners of the RV shouln't have over-stressed the bumper, and I admire your skills. But it seems to me that an RV's bumper should be made to support a couple bicycles, maybe even a small motorcycle.
OMG at 12:50 those welds "joining" the angle iron to the frame and bumper don't actually penetrate either! All you did was run a bead on the angle iron itself! Most of the rest of those welds look extremely cold.
Sorry about saying some one was an idiot for buying a bike at the price of $1800. It was not my place to judge the buying habits of another person. I've made what others might say why would you pay so much for this product. Sorry for what I did. Pleases forgive me. Thank you for your time in putting out a video that you thought was worth the effort .
Thank you James, and I owe an apology to my viewers as well. I was wrong to call it a mountain bike, I believe it was a road bike. Regardless of the type, it cost the owner a considerable sum as a result of a poorly designed bike carrier. I'm so tired of the crap they sell us in all areas of consumer products. Just today I purchased a counter top Hamilton Beach Toaster Oven at Walmart. I carefully unpacked it because I knew there would be a good chance it might be going back. After almost an hour of unpacking, finding an appropriate place for it, moving a tall cupboard where I wanted it and plugging it in behind the stand alone cupboard. I anxiously wanted to try out my new appliance. Wouldn't you know it the light that tells you the appliance is turned on, does not light up. This is a required feature, I don't want to leave home without knowing the oven is on. NOW THE RANT...Chinese people are among the smartest manufacturers in the world. Left to their own, I don't believe they would produce junk. We Westerners curse the products they make but little is it known that they are just producing to meet the price point the Western companies dictate to them, as fast and as cheap as they can do it. Donald Trump is fighting an uphill battle to bring manufacturing back to the USA and put quality back into products. You go for it Donald, because there is more than just me that wastes their breath cursing the crap major companies pass off, and you know they don't even care its all about the $ and where else are you going to buy it. Phew that felt good to get that out. Ray
I appreciate your time in making this video, but it would be a lot simpler to buy a new piece in a heaver gauge, no? Another good tip for travel trailer mounted bike racks is be sure bikes, etc. hang no lower than the top of the bumper. I've seen bikes destroyed while pulling the trailer through a dip or up a driveway, and the bike wheels drag, bend, ruined.
Thanks ...I'm new to single travel...my x and I traveled but he did all the hook ups and stuff and majority of the driving..now I'm going to venture out.i have a25ft trailer and the people I bought it from put a hitch on the back and had a big metal plate with sides on it that they carried camping gear and a generator...so that's going to be something I need to really check out as it looks unbalanced to me ..I don't know if I would use it ..without making it more stable..it's not hooked to the bumper like this trailer you did..I'm so new to this stuff it scares me...lol..
That bumper was scrap before it broke. I would have replaced it with a real piece of square metal. I had one made up for my pop up camper,never had a problem hauling bicycles on that type of carrier on my real bumper. Yes it is heavy,but it wouldnt ever fail like that. Sad if you ask me. All that work when a good square steel bumper wouldnt have cost all that much.
Thank you for the video. To all those who don't like you welding, SCREW them . Just ignore them, if you must reply tell them "thanks for watching and commenting" . Bada bing, bada boom. Your done with them. Cheers
I cant even finish watching. 3 passes to weld sheet metal? I don't know what to say, other than I hope your never in front of me, who knows what may "fall off" with your mad welding skills.
+John R Your right on John, most everything now a days is built so cheap it barely does the job. It is scary the crap they are building as RV's and charging 30 grand for them. Thanks for your comment.
You'd think anyone who can waste money on on $1800 bicycle would be able to afford to have alot stronger bumper built, instead of having that weak bumper repaired with "patches". Had it been my camper, I would've had it replaced with a new "fabricated" bumper using a 1/4" wall thickness, 4" sq. tube and heavy duty mounts to attach it to the frame.
Great fix and I understand people need to carry there stuff somewhere but I wont carry any weight that far back the rear of my trailer. I saw your nice box in your rv and wondered about this also.
Steve Nichols, you would be dangerous in any repair shop. If it can be welded, thus making more money, it should not be replaced! Why put a nice new shiny and durable bumper there, when you can have some old shite that will create a haven for youtube commenters like you and me?
From the look of the original damage, the bumper is to thin to take the flexing load from the long arm of the rack. All you have done is moved the area outwards. Given enough time, the same failure will occur. Remember, a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link. As for your welding, I don't normally bag someone about their welding, but as you are doing it for reward and your customers may not know any better, you need to get a lot better before carrying out repairs that could allow items to be strewn across the highway when they fail. You are not a good enough welder to be carrying out repairs where failure could cause injury or death.
In addition to your strengthening up of the bumper I would suggest shimming the receiver to stop that whole rack from shaking. Thats what I would have mentioned in your opening dialog because that alone would have slowed down the weakening and fatigue that broke the bumper in the first place. I think your comments are very welcome if only folks knew how weak these bumpers are good job.
Great video most people have no idea how un safe this is. It would have been better to replace the 4" cheap thin stock bumper with a much thicker 5" square bumper channel available at most any metal supplier.
Somebody put the wrong handlebars on that "mountain" bike.
I carry 4 bikes on the back of my trailer, but I have the weight carried off the back wall my 2 cross-crossed ratchet straps. You need to take any movement out of the rack otherwise you will still have a failure of the rack and it bumper! I have over 3k miles on my setup and it's still solid.
I'm not a welder, but I've spent plenty of time around production welding and manufacturing welds. Looking at those welds, I wouldn't trust them to hold up around the block, let alone carrying stuff on a vacation road trip. If you have to grind your welds to make them look good, you're not a welder, you're a grinder.
Amen C. Daisy
Why does watching this repair remind me of an 'Adventures with Bill' segment from the Red Green Show?
+Therevdon
HAHA, I remember that and it was hilarious.
It amazes me that I came across this video. Was outside today trying to figure out how to mount a bike rack over my spare tire. I have a very cheap bumper, it's only a channel not a tube. Will be replacing it after watching this. thanks for sharing.
Glad you saw my video, better safe than sorry. Good luck with your project. You may like my RV mods section on my website. raywhyte.ca Thanks for commenting.
Some travel trailer bumpers do have a heavier guage 4in. square tube. Building heavier isn't always better though. If you put on too heavy a square tube, and if there is a failure, for example you are rear ended, then the trailer frame would probably receive more damage, than the bumper, therefore resulting in a far more extensive and costly repairs.
those welds looked like they were done with JB Weld lol
Weld fail. Don't weld if you don't know what your doing. Sincerely, structural ironworker.
jgeb k yes indeed. And particularly welding on a frame of something going down the open road. When it comes to frames you REALLY have to up your welding game. Former UAW. ;-)
I think all those bumpers were meant to carry was a sewer hose. However, you've given that bumper a whole new life...That was an outstanding repair. No RV shop would have put so much time and effort into the job. Good stuff!!!
+joey1127 The bumper is stronger than ever, despite the criticism about my welding. I agree the welds aren't pretty but after three passes, they are plenty strong. I think people can still use their bumpers to carry bikes as long as they tie them back to the frame rails as shown in the video. You have to make sure you take any possible whipping action out of the bike carrier. Thanks for commenting.
I've recently watched a bike rack fall off an RV. There was nothing I could do but get out of the way! No one got hurt and they pulled over. They must of had a rear view camera.
Great idea with the Eye Bolts and straps to the top of the bike rack. It will greatly reduce dynamic loading and metal fatigue on the bumper when the trailer travels over bumps or dips in the road surface. I imagine shocks on the trailer will also help.
Standard 4" square bumpers were not designed to take any weight at all. This is so common. The easiest and best solution is to use the 4SQUARE SafetyStruts to reinforce the bumper. With four bolts and 20 minutes of time, your bumper can be reinforced to hold 300lbs of weight and give you the peace of mind that your bumper will be secure.
www.mount-n-lock.com
+Frank Fenneran You and I know that but it would appear the rest of the world doesn't, that's the purpose of the video. Help spread the word Frank, before someones debris hurts somebody. Thanks for your comment and suggestion.
I think you guys should have replaced the complete tube of the bumper with higher grade tubing, that seems very light and it will end breaking on patch edges all over again
I am not trying to critical but I agree with you. I have been restoring & building custom travel trailers for 41 rears - retired now - Yes these are not even bumpers but are meant to carry sewer hoses. I have seen these so called bumpers actually bend the light gage steel bumper - carrier - at the point of a bike mounted carrier when people use a 4 bike rack as I have know them to be. The leverage and twisting caused by 4 bikes that hand hang way out will do it every time. I would not have taken the time to repair the stock tube in my opinion like I stated the repaired tube might just bend in the middle even with your repair. I am 71 now and have seen most everything people do in regards to their RV's overtime. Thank You
+K-9 COOPER
Great comment, Thanks. T he owner wanted it repaired.
+Ray Whyte I totally understand and hopefully they will not be back with their decision. By the way I have no issue what so ever with your repair and or welding. I have tried to express my opinions to customers in regards to some of their decisions but the customer is always right. You really did a nice repair and I thought as much in your case the customer gets what they pay for. Thank You & Cheers
+Ray Whyte by the way I subbed to your channel I love watching others fix things & I can tell you know how to...Thank You again..
+camacho2 replacing the tube is right, but there is much more to it then just replacing the tube, read my reply to poster above
My congratulations on your ability to "repair" the costly "mistake" or "misjudgment" of the capability of the bumper to hold something it wasn't designed to do. A man of your talent should be able to look at the bumper and realize it isn't designed to be carrying bikes (or anything else!) bouncing down the highway being stretched and stressed beyond its design. Perhaps, you could use your welding ability to finding something heavy duty and welding it to the RV frame; that way, you only have to worry about voiding your RV warranty (if it's still under warranty). Otherwise, find a RV that is offered with a "luggage system" from a mfg that will do what you want to do. Y'all Be Safe!
We had this exact problem. We paid $450 for a new bumper with bolsters, and the bumper they put on was not big enough inside for the hoses! The outside dimensions were perfect but, of course, the inside was not large enough because of the thicker walls. FAIL. We sucked it up and are going to put in a piece of PVC to hold them near the dump. I like the idea of strapping the bike rack to the frame to take out the wobble. I'm sure that's a huge factor.
Great video, my husband and I watched this together and he is also a very handy man. We are also RVers and are getting ready to purchase a hitch for a cargo carrier/bike rack or whatever we need. This was a very informative video and we appreciate you taking the time to create it. We learned a lot and you have given us some new great ideas. Thank you.
Thanks for this! Very helpful...
Fortunately, I always carry a welding shop; a metal fabrication shop; a machine shop; and a CNC
with me when I go boondocking.
I like to be prepared because one never knows when one's rear bumper will snap off from overloading it
with too much stuff......
Not to be rude but as a 10 years certified welder I can tell from the video you have no heat penetration in the bumper it's probably more dangerous cause your going to load equal or heavier stuff now that you think it's fiixed. That little Flux might welder is hard to do on metal with different thicknesses.
Thank you for warning people about this! I think the tin bumpers being unable to carry weight may also help prevent travel trailer owners from carrying heavy cargo thus losing tongue weight on the front which in turn "will" cause the trailer to sway and possibly crash. Any weight added to the rear must be compensated for and added to the front so the proper ball tongue weight is kept. Not doing this will be worse than the bumper failing.. Most manufactures will tell you not to carry loads on the rear of travel trailers because of this as many people already know..
I have to agree with other reviewers that the welds are at risk of cracking due to poor penetration.
To minimize the wobble of bike rack on any PROPERLY installed car/truck/trailer receiver, search 'hitch anti-wobble' or 'hitch anti-rattle' for various solutions. I used a combination of the 'MaxxTow Anti-Rattle' and a 'Locking Silent Hitch Pin' to nearly eliminate movement of the hitch. The locking pin also reduces theft risk.
You should have used 7018 3/32 rod your weld job has to many pin holes
I would like to make a Cautionary Note about Holding Tanks in general. My understanding most are made from a polycarbonate or fiberglass material, (plastic). Most have a continuous flange around the top portion of the tank. Many are supported by the vehicle chassis frame from this flange. Don’t make the mistake I did thinking it was OK to travel with these tank partially or full. They will crack open and break at this location in due time, creating the worst mistake you made in a long time. Especially if you’re RV has a full metal covered under belly full of insulation? Play it smart, do it yourself or have your dealer inspect and or install additional supports to the tanks underbelly to take the heavy load of these flanges and really support the tanks.
Happy travels
If the bumper is that cheap, just think how the rest of the trailer is built!
What I did to prevent the typical thin wall square tube bumper from failing was to remove it entirely and replace it with 4 inch channel iron welded firmly to the trailers 4 inch channel iron frame rails. Then I welded on a 2 inch i.d. receiver so now I have a slide in removable bike rack that isn't going anywhere. I mounted a 5"x5" square plastic fence post with end caps under the trailer for the sewer hose.
I planned on pulling a small trailer with a 4 wheeler and coolers behind my 5th wheel. I just got a piece of 4-inch angle iron that just fit in-between the inside of the frame. welded it to the frame and along with the square tubing. then welded a receiver for the hitch. Fairly cheap, easy and strong.
I have been hauling bikes on the back of three different travel trailers over a 35 year period. The bumper is not the problem. The bike rack is not the problem. The hitch is the problem. With the proper hitch there is no problem. If you want to help people tell them the truth. Never, ever use a bumper mounted hitch. I always make my own hitches. Frame mounts that have no impact on the bumper. You are correct that if you are using a bumper mounted hitch, you are headed for trouble.
You know what those travel trailers are using very thin metal steel for those bumpers. I think that is the major problems here. My Class A has huge thick metal frames and its connected to the back of the Class 5 hitch aint going nowhere with that. Good job on the weld and metal plate
A bumper should have a much heavier gauge steel tube stock. I replaced mine with 1/4 inch 4x4 stock and also the arms and cross member. You have to do this to get the same strength rating as the hitch assembly and when you tie them both together they share the load for towing or carrying gear in/on a rack.
I like the patch idea..... but I'm sorry to say, your welds are not good.
no shit !
10 out of 10 for your efforts & ideas. Your welding will improve with time. A welding course is highly recommended, it certainly helped me with my welding prowess. l enjoy welding & making/repairing things. After numerous welding courses l am now qualified as a Fitter/Welder. ( Fitter & Turner by trade ).
I reinforced my rear bumper to the frame rail before installing a bike rack. I've towed over 10,000 miles with bikes on the back, no problems at all.
I liked the idea of the patch, also would have replaced the whole thing with a heavier metal bumper, but seeing as you don't own this and it is up to the owner to decide how much money to put into a repair or to just replace the bumper. I thought it was a decent looking job of welding, but hey, I am no expert. You did good Ray Whyte, you did what you were commissioned to do, repair the bumper.
Being aware of the potential stress on the bumpers, I have always used a strap to tie the rack back to the frame. I've never had a problem over 5 years with a large Yakima swing-away rack carrying three bikes. Luckily, my new (1 yr old) camper has the I-beam frame notched and supports the bumper underneath as well. I do still use the strap though!
I have often wondered how much weight you can cantilever way back behind the rear axle before it affects your steering. a lot of people seem to think that if you can attach it to the vehicle, it is all OK.A stationary vehicle has dead weight on the bumper, equal to the scale weight of the load. But when you hit a hole or dip, the dynamic weight of that same load can be multiplied several times. For instance, you may be able to pick up an anvil. But if someone throws you the same anvil from a second story window, you probably won't be able to hold off the ground. That is dynamic weight.
Excellent point, keep it light back there.
You have brought up an interesting question. There is obviously a point where too much weight will create handling problems. Without hiring an engineer to calculate that figure, caution is of the utmost importance.
All I can do is relate my own experience and can offer no recommendations.
I added a total of 60 lbs which included the supporting frame and lightweight aluminum box. I moved the spare tire to a spot under the trailer belly in front of the axles, that took off 30 lbs. see ruclips.net/video/wnhYriKkJoI/видео.html for this mod. I added about 80 lbs. of gear in the box. This sounds like a grade 7 math question but if you are following along, I have added approximately 110 lbs to the bumper. I travelled for a season and had no handling problems at all.
The next season I modified my storage by moving the storage box to the right side of the bumper extension to make space for a generator weighting in at 175 lbs. see ruclips.net/video/sSSB1MqN99k/видео.html for this mod.
BIG MISTAKE!
The mod looked good, fit like a glove, and worked perfectly but was too much weight. It totally through out the handling and sent us into a uncontrolled sway when we were descending a steep hill. I crossed 2 oncoming lanes before gaining control by applying trailer brakes only. Needless to say you know what my next project was. The generator now travels in the pickup box.
You could probably calculate it in foot pounds. The owners manual usually gives maximum tow ball load down, not pulling. . Multiply each load by its distance from the axle to get foot pounds, and divide by distance from the axle to the tow ball. That will give you pounds of load at the ball. Do that for all your additional loads, and add them up. Compare with maximum ball load. But with each pound, your vehicle has less traction at the front wheels,which could be significant on gravel, ice, or less than dry-load steering situations. There will be a gradual change in steering, not sudden good/bad change.
Have some fun with your calculator. LOL
These bumpers are light duty prestressed steel.
Wap an eighth inch by at least four in wide strap and across the back a 1"×2 reinforcer tagged to the straps.
Thats the way I would have fixed it.
But yours is good.
I would have pressed the strap between two heavy steel flat pieces in the vice, heated and bent it, the attached.
Have had to do this with other things.
I work in fabrication in the oil industry, building drilling rigs. I've seen that patch hundreds of times though we didn't use it for that purpose. We used a huge hydraulic brake to form that part. Your interior support would still be iffy at best bending it while tacked down. occasionally, our welders would cheat it using a wooden block with some vices if the break didn't get it close enough(some of our dyes weren't able to get parts exactly how the prints asked for).
+Kevin Moore Thanks for your comment, my 50 ton brake press was at the cleaners, and this job just had to get done, so the old torch was all I had. LOL Thanks for watching.
I see people all the time do that with their bumpers. I saw a Honda EU3000 (150lbs) rip a bumper right off). I stick welded 3x3x 3/8" tube steel across to the the I-Beams then welded a 2" receiver to that, then shored it up with stiffener plates (full pin weld). It took about 45 minutes and $25 in remnant steel from the yard.
+Lenny Dearth It is a problem because there are no warnings to RV owners of the possibility of failure. Just help spread the word. Lenny thanks for your comment, good work on the repair.
I only witnessed the generator rip off the bumper, that made me weld the set up I mentioned above to my rig. Again thanks for your time.
+Lenny Dearth Right back at you Lenny, thanks for participating.
It would be great to see a vid of what you did. I'm not a welder myself but my brother is and it'd be good to have something to show him and say 'can you do this for me?" :)
Nice job Ray ! I'm buying a little R- Pod and am a newbie. Retired Chief Lineman ,a handyman but not a welder (yet) but might take a course. This video is great for not only it's technical education but for safety also. I wouldn't have liked being behind someone that lost on the highway.
You have very handy survival skills. Well done! And thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.
I can not believe someone actually paid you for this!
Sorry Fella, that was hard to watch
Nice vid. I am in the planning stages for full time rv living. I am an avid cyclist and will have 3-4 bikes with me that I will need to transport and store. This type of incident would have been $15,000+ of bikes bouncing across asphalt. Not a pleasant thought. I'm looking at a van and building a rack system in the rear of the cargo area, same thing in a capped pickup, converting a bunk area to bike storage in the RV, and some possible outside rack system on the RV. Will definitely look at beefing up the rear RV bumper if I go decide to transport bikes back there. Thanks for the heads up.
Thanks for this video. That's exactly what I was going to do with a 5 bike rack from Thule. I'll now pay close attention to the bumper and the play. Just bought a Travel Trailer and prepare for a 8 mo full-time trip (will be posting videos on RUclips).
+Keep Your Daydream
Make sure you reinforce the bumper properly and that there is no whip in the bike rack. I would suggest you use a roof carrier on the tow vehicle if possible. to reduce the bumper weight. Five bikes is pushing it. Good luck and have a great trip. For more handy tips on preparing your new trailer, download my PDF e-book "ROUGHING IT SMOOTHLY" from my home page on my web site. It is free, no registration or obligation, just enjoy. www.raywhyte.ca
Whoa.... just found this video when researching stuff myself and I've been watching your channel for years haha, crazy to see a comment from a channel from years ago lol
I have been in the RV Business for 38 years. The back bumper is to hold a sewer hose and a spare tire, that is all. You would have been better off to replace the whole bumper with heavier material. Basically, you have spent a lot of time and have not accomplished much in the way making the bumper any stronger.
A reply to Dwight Stewart
This actually happened as described in the video without any extra forces as you assume. There was no extra force on the bumper except for the whipping action of the poorly fitting bike carrier. This happened on an undulating highway and not some bush road. There were 4 bikes, 2 children's bikes and 2 adult light weight mountain bikes. I estimate the weight including the rack was 160 lbs. but that is just a guess. I inspected the bumpers torn holes and there were slight signs of rust and corrosion(I point this out in the video @ 3:03). This might indicate that the factory welds to the frame were not solid and protected enough with paint. This is simply a good example of the force that can be generated by a leaver.
I'm not suggesting you use these bumpers for carrying bikes, generators, storage boxes, etc. without substantial reinforcement and by all means prevent the load from whipping while under way. You are responsible for securing your loads. Safety first!
It is called Metal Fatigue. Poor design and too much weight. A length of 2" HSS Square Tubing should be bolted to the bumper with a pair of long U bolts and run back under the trailer to a solid connection. Rack with over priced bicycle should be bolted to that. Get a MIG welder with Shielding.
i assume fracture from metal fatigue. and that it happened from several trips.
I appreciate your video as a newbie who has added a bike carrier to my RV. I have shimmed the carrier hitch as Powder River suggested so that most of the wobble is gone, and I have only 2 bikes. Even so, I have observed that the length of the carrier could present a significant twisting force to the square tube.The square tubing is recessed into the RV sheet metal such that I am not able to add tie downs per your suggestions but I will see about fishing the tie downs under the sheet metal. It would be helpful to understand the time frame over which the failure occurred, and whether walk-arounds would have identified the problem before total failure. Thank you.
The failure of this bumper was a combination of 3 things. Number 1, there were signs of rust in behind the bumper at its original mounts. Number 2, the torque and weight of the bikes & rack was strong enough to peel the bumper off it's original welds. Number 3, the bumper was too thin to support the weight. In retrospect, I should have talked the owner into a heavier gauge steel bumper but he wanted it fixed with the original. Good Luck. Thanks for commenting.
Thank you for taking the time to make the video. I'm not a welder, so I can't comment on that....but I do appreciate the insight as to what can happen, and a good way to avoid that. My bumper is still intact....and may well stay that way thanks to your video. Thanks again!
I'm sorry, but that's some sorry welding. I agree with others----Dangerous because you think it's fixed.
True that those are some dandy welds ROFLMAO
I have a different setup and could put bikes on the back of mine but don't. Last trailer I owned had a 2" receiver. Perfect I thought! Put on the bike rack and off we went. The extra weight of 4 bikes behind the rear axle sure made for a bouncy ride! Never again. Bikes hang over the tailgate of the truck now. Extra weight now always sits over or in front of the axle whenever possible and depending on just how much weight etc.
Thank you for the video. I added a bumper receiver just yesterday and am thinking i'll add a couple of ratchet straps to either side of the bike rack and loop them around the bumper support beams to remove any wobble whatsoever until I get the bumper retrofitted. I also reversed the mount on the bumper so that the plate is on the front and inserted a small washer between the receiver and the hitch insert to help fill the gap between the two.
Good job Vincent, I'm glad I made you aware of the safety concerns using a bike rack. Thanks for commenting.
Why didn't you just put angle iron on both sides of the frame?
It's skilled men like you that keep the world running. Thank God for skilled men like you.
Balls welding in shorts and short sleeves!
Wow, thanks for posting this. Good to keep in mind. We don't use our bumper for anything other than what it was intended for.
>First Rule: NEVER EVER attach anything to the sewer hose storage tube!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They call it a bumper because it will sometime push a folding chair or picnic table out of the way when u back into them.....lol!
There are many types of adapters available that have a cross beam that attaches to the trailer frame with a light weight receiver.
Most are bolt on so they can be easily installed, no welding, and can usually be moved to ur next RV!
Turn up the heat ... not enough penetration on those welds .
The he would burn through that think metal. Is not hard to burn through that metal. Very thin and with heat is more apt to burn through as the welding continues.
I just reinforce my bumper to comadate a bike rack. I was questioning my welds but after looking at yours, I thing I'm good.
I made the mistake of utilizing a better bike rack on a much stronger bumper set up and I also used the ratchet straps for additional support. It was a bad idea but I was lucky since I had a tent trailer I could see the bikes bouncing. The back of the trailer is like riding in the back of the bus. It's far bumpier (violent really) and you compound the problem with the ill fitting shaky bike rack (not your fault but the manufacturers design problems). If you have a trailer that size you can store the bikes in the trailer or mount them on the "A" frame at the front of the trailer or if you have a camper trailer bike racks fit nicely on the top. Never use the back of the trailer to mount anything. (once bitten twice shy...)
I have welded things, like tables and hand carts. I don't know what I am doing, learn as I go, I have gotten better but I still suck. But what I know is if one of my welds breaks it is no big deal, you sir, better be certain that your weld does not hurt someone if it drops off on the highway. Better have good insurance. If my loved one was injured by a jury rigged item on public roads, by an uncertified welder/tech, you can bet I would be standing before a jury, if you get my drift.
Thank you for your comment. I realize my welds are not pretty, but I have been doing this for many years and too many projects to count. Your concern for safety is noted. But this bumper is also bolted to the frame ensuring a failure will not happen. By the way, I have never had a weld fail as most people assume will happen.
There were likely more factors at play than simply the action of the bike mount-movement. storing your sewer hose is one I can think of, which would accelerate deterioration of those already poorly mounted bumper joints. Those should have been externally reinforced at the factory.
Good advice ,we’re replacing our Minnie bumper with a heavy duty option as we want to have options, and not be restrained.
I am by no means knowlegeable in metal working, and have a few questions.
Why not replace the old bumper with a newer one of heavier gauge steel and add extra support to that in the form of L-brackets welded to the bumper and bolted to the frame? Also if the original bumper was not damaged and you know of this situation, do two things.
A: Add L-Brackets to the bumper and bolt them to the frame and
B: Modify the mounting system for the mounting rack to stop the sway, say by putting wedges to take up too much room.
Why did you not measure and pre-shape the repair plate before welding to the old bumper?
Thank you for answering the question of an ignorant person.
I haven't read every comment but I want to put this out there. You have used your years of knowledge to reassure these owners of the trailer that it is okay to mount a trailer hitch to that bumper. Everyone knows or should know that you don't attach a trailer hitch to even a car bumper. Anyone that has bothered to read an owners manual knows that a trailer hitch HAS TO BE mounted to the frame of the vehicle. I learned that when I was 10 years old because i saw a bumper ripped off the back of a station wagon.
What happens when these people put a trailer ball into the receiver and tow something on the back of this trailer. I hope you have good insurance or you are so poor that the people behind this set up decide not to sue you when this bike rack falls off in front of their vehicle.
You remind me of my Dad. Find some parts around the house, a scrap here, a scrap there and make it work. That's fine if it's your vehicle but don't do it to others.The reason shops charge the big bucks to install these things is because they have to have liability insurance to pay the damages caused by people that don't understand that steel has its limits.. People see a 4 inch square of steel and think it is as rigid and strong as steel on a bridge or the steel post holding up their deck.. People don't realize just how much steel can bend. I was the same way until I talked to fabricators and they showed me how flimsy it is comparatively.
You should have explained to them with the website of Thule, the bike rack manufacturer, that this model was meant for a mounted hitch assembly installed at the factory or at least by a competent business taking into consideration others on the road. A product that is engineered to give a certain strength based on the size and the quality of the steel used along with the use of high strength bolts that won't break as the Chinese products do.
Then if they wanted to nickle rig it together anyway, you should have told them you wont do it because you don't want to be responsible for the death of the people driving behind them. They already had their warning how far were they going to push their luck. Don't tell me they were going to leave it in God's hands.
I know you're proud of your work and it does work and was a cheap fix. Cowabunga dude, but it's not right for the customer. You missed out on a teaching moment.
+Tim Steinkamp
Thanks for watching, you put a lot of thought into you comment. Be assured, they have been warned and are limiting the weight on the 4 place bike rack to two light weight bikes. They bought another carrier for the roof of the tow vehicle.
Well.... first of all, the RV's or Travel Trailer bumpers are nonhit else than a very thing sheet metal square tubing... I replaced the bumpre by a real Square Tubing attached with 1/4 in brackets, bolted directly to the RV's Chassis... now, you can hang anything you want from the bumper. Another important note is that everytime I place something on my hitch, I attached an anti-sway device. This will avoid the play than can eventualy break off your bumper.
1800 dollars for a bicycle was a bigger issue to me, than the bumper falling off...
Fools and their money...
RIPPER334 totally agree.
because it is looks like a bumper, but it's Not for bike rack, only for sewer hose
The only thing I would store in the bumper is sand or concrete to give it rigidity as it stand take a hit in the arse end and the bumper would be totalled
To be honest you should of scrapped the bumper because with the failure as it was the van was a write off.. From insurance perspective..
I had my bumper replaced with a heavier gage metal, then a doubler on the frame three feet forward and rehung the corner jacks to thicker mounting plates.IF you really want to use the bumper and not worry do it right
We nearly rolled over an 18' 1988 Prowler by putting a heavy bike rack with bikes on it. It was just heavy enough to take enough weight off the tongue that the rig turned into a sway nightmare. Keep your weight and balance in mind with smaller trailers!
We later put this bike rack on a 1992 27' Wilderness 5th wheel. Unlike the Prowler, this newer rig had a much thinner bumper and it literally bent from the weight of the bikes and bike rack.
I figured out a roof rack on the truck itself was the best option. Keeps the weight off the trailer and the bumper!
+Robert Bell
Robert, bin there done that. We had a proper bumper setup to carry lots of weight(first mistake). Installed a 200 lb.generator and storage box on bumper setup(second mistake). Didn't gear down on steep grade(third mistake). Now the 7800 lb. trailer is pushing us faster and faster(fourth mistake). Now the whipping sway of the trailers is starting, the trailer is steering us(butt cheeks are at maximum tightness). The whole truck and trailer are crossing three lanes into the oncoming lanes(there is a God, no on coming traffic). Held the steering tight and straight while manually applying only the trailer brakes and finally brought everything into a controlled stop by applying all the brakes once it was slowed down and sway was under control.(first thing I did right). The vehicle behind me stopped to compliment me on my superb driving skill. He thought we were going upside down.(thanked him and said no big deal). Wiped the sweat from my brow, the air in the cab was still fresh.(no change of shorts required). Watch the weight back there people. You will never forget the sway of death ride.
Ray Whyte
Sounds like my experience!
We had the trailer up on one wheel and were in the median. The guy behind use was sure we were going to roll. I learned a few lessons that day:
1. Make sure the tow vehicle tow capacity is well above the trailer weight (we had a Toyota mini-truck with a 3,000 lb tow capacity and the Prowler weighed 3,000 lbs).
2. Check tongue weight, it should be 10-15% of the trailer weight.
3. If it's white knuckles on the wheel all the time, the lashup is no good. If you can't take your hands off the wheel, something isn't right.
We have a Casita now, which weighs about 3,000 lbs and a Frontier which is rated for 6,500 lbs. It is a very stable lashup, even with a blowout.
I don't attach things to the rear bumper of pull-behinds anymore. Even 100-200 lbs on the rear of a small trailer is enough to take an equivalent amount off the hitch, and result in a dynamically unstable rig.
The Prowler handled better once we removed the bike rack. Handled perfectly once we bought an F-150 to tow it with....
+Robert Bell
Thanks for your input, I'm afraid most new towers just hook up and go. Our licenses should need an endorsement showing some training. All to often people learn because of a tragedy. Or damage to their new trailer. It is no different for motor homes except for a required air ticket. Ya anybody can drive a bus?
Ray Whyte
We've seen it all in our travels and also on I-95 which goes by our house. French Canadians in particular seem to look at tow ratings as mere suggestions.
We've seen three-axle airstream trailers being towed by Chrysler minivans, Dodge Magnums, and even a Mercedes E-class wagon. None of which have a tow rating anywhere near the weight of those monsters.
I guess we all have to learn the hard way!
Some education is needed regarding towing.
Great work. Nice to see home fabricating which is a lost art!! Light weight trailers and heavy weight junk. The bumper is thin and super cheap..also, if poop pipe is carried inside there is more rust to deal with.
I would have just bought a new bumper. That one was all rusty inside and I'm sure that had something to do with the original problem.
I really like the tie down suggestion. This makes tons of sense and will help . Thanks for the tip and the post.
Interesting, and useful. Nicely done video. Our 5th wheel has a fiberglass rear cap, and as such has no bumper. I did order it with a trailer hitch which the manufacturer clearly states is for 100# or less. Nonetheless, we have friends who loaded theirs up with bikes and ultimately dragged them down the road when the jounce & metal fatigue won out. Short of having a craftsman fabricate something much more sturdy, we won't be using it! Thanks again. Cheers!
Glad you got something out of the video, thanks for your comment.
When you have way more time than money or sense
Well done Mr. Whyte! I appreciate your attention to detail and the way you explain what you're doing and why.
+Ball Coach
Thank you, this is important information for Trailer owners. Spread the word and share this video. ruclips.net/video/YIwtglKiBwk/видео.html
Okay, the *trailer itself would have been ripped apart at the seams* long before rough terrain and a couple of lightweight mountain bicycles could have caused that amount of damage. The bumpers aren't that flimsy, so something else (far more weight on the bumper, kids repeatedly playing on the bike mount, etc) happened here.
Thanks for the video I just put one of those bike racks on our camper last weekend will be reinforcing this weekend👍🏽
I agree that the owners of the RV shouln't have over-stressed the bumper, and I admire your skills. But it seems to me that an RV's bumper should be made to support a couple bicycles, maybe even a small motorcycle.
This is why we do not put anything in the back!! And why not all extra gear in the bed of the truck!?
OMG at 12:50 those welds "joining" the angle iron to the frame and bumper don't actually penetrate either! All you did was run a bead on the angle iron itself! Most of the rest of those welds look extremely cold.
It's been cracking for a while, inspect your trailer once in a while folks.
I am no welder, but even I thought some some of weld joints looked a bit rough
Sorry about saying some one was an idiot for buying a bike at the price of $1800. It was not my place to judge the buying habits of another person. I've made what others might say why would you pay so much for this product. Sorry for what I did. Pleases forgive me. Thank you for your time in putting out a video that you thought was worth the effort .
Thank you James, and I owe an apology to my viewers as well. I was wrong to call it a mountain bike, I believe it was a road bike. Regardless of the type, it cost the owner a considerable sum as a result of a poorly designed bike carrier. I'm so tired of the crap they sell us in all areas of consumer products. Just today I purchased a counter top Hamilton Beach Toaster Oven at Walmart. I carefully unpacked it because I knew there would be a good chance it might be going back. After almost an hour of unpacking, finding an appropriate place for it, moving a tall cupboard where I wanted it and plugging it in behind the stand alone cupboard. I anxiously wanted to try out my new appliance.
Wouldn't you know it the light that tells you the appliance is turned on, does not light up. This is a required feature, I don't want to leave home without knowing the oven is on. NOW THE RANT...Chinese people are among the smartest manufacturers in the world. Left to their own, I don't believe they would produce junk. We Westerners curse the products they make but little is it known that they are just producing to meet the price point the Western companies dictate to them, as fast and as cheap as they can do it.
Donald Trump is fighting an uphill battle to bring manufacturing back to the USA and put quality back into products. You go for it Donald, because there is more than just me that wastes their breath cursing the crap major companies pass off, and you know they don't even care its all about the $ and where else are you going to buy it. Phew that felt good to get that out.
Ray
I appreciate your time in making this video, but it would be a lot simpler to buy a new piece in a heaver gauge, no?
Another good tip for travel trailer mounted bike racks is be sure bikes, etc. hang no lower than the top of the bumper. I've seen
bikes destroyed while pulling the trailer through a dip or up a driveway, and the bike wheels drag, bend, ruined.
you can use a u bolt clamp to hold bike rack firm to the hitch or buy on amazon
i would of tapered both ends down to a dull point, that way its a gradual beefing up....not a blunt big wrapped piece....🔶
Thanks ...I'm new to single travel...my x and I traveled but he did all the hook ups and stuff and majority of the driving..now I'm going to venture out.i have a25ft trailer and the people I bought it from put a hitch on the back and had a big metal plate with sides on it that they carried camping gear and a generator...so that's going to be something I need to really check out as it looks unbalanced to me ..I don't know if I would use it ..without making it more stable..it's not hooked to the bumper like this trailer you did..I'm so new to this stuff it scares me...lol..
That bumper was scrap before it broke. I would have replaced it with a real piece of square metal. I had one made up for my pop up camper,never had a problem hauling bicycles on that type of carrier on my real bumper. Yes it is heavy,but it wouldnt ever fail like that. Sad if you ask me. All that work when a good square steel bumper wouldnt have cost all that much.
that bumper looks like its made from cola cans,lol
Thank you for the video. To all those who don't like you welding, SCREW them . Just ignore them, if you must reply tell them "thanks for watching and commenting" . Bada bing, bada boom. Your done with them. Cheers
I cant even finish watching.
3 passes to weld sheet metal?
I don't know what to say, other than I hope your never in front of me, who knows what may "fall off" with your mad welding skills.
Problem is, the frames on most trailers aren't much heavier than the bumper. You can make an real heavy bumper and break the frame.
+John R
Your right on John, most everything now a days is built so cheap it barely does the job. It is scary the crap they are building as RV's and charging 30 grand for them. Thanks for your comment.
You'd think anyone who can waste money on on $1800 bicycle would be able to afford to have alot stronger bumper built, instead of having that weak bumper repaired with "patches". Had it been my camper, I would've had it replaced with a new "fabricated" bumper using a 1/4" wall thickness, 4" sq. tube and heavy duty mounts to attach it to the frame.
Great fix and I understand people need to carry there stuff somewhere but I wont carry any weight that far back the rear of my trailer. I saw your nice box in your rv and wondered about this also.
Mark a storage box on the rear of your trailer is a great idea, but be careful of the weight you put in it.
Why spend all that time to repair a square tube when for far less, you could replace with a new and stronger one?
BINGO we have a winner here..
Steve Nichols, you would be dangerous in any repair shop. If it can be welded, thus making more money, it should not be replaced! Why put a nice new shiny and durable bumper there, when you can have some old shite that will create a haven for youtube commenters like you and me?
Hey Ray, Despite all the negative comments, I enjoyed your segment.
I pray to the lord above that I am never behind anything you have "repaired".