Hi Everyone. Just wanted to chime in and say a big THANK YOU to everyone who’s replied to my original comment on the subject that the OG Phill posted in this episode. A big thank you to you Phill for the great work you do and the way in which you do it. You’re so non-judgemental, (unlike myself 😅) on the subject and you do a great job in educating me personally. Our industry needs more people like you and we’re all of us lucky to have you. I didn’t see anything from you in my IG DM’s which is okay but just letting you know once agin that you have an open invitation to chat and exchange views via FaceTime as I’m sure there are some who my question that it’s actually me. As I mentioned above, I wanted to thank all of you that have replied to my original comment. You’ve all said the nicest things about me and I’m humbled. Sorry I haven’t responded to each of you individually but I just wanted you to know that I’ve acknowledged all of your views in response and that I appreciate you all took the time to do so. It’s seems that as a whole we’re in collective agreement with regard to the integrity of this art form that we’re all so privileged to be a part of, no matter the capacity or level in which we do so. I know that I have been so lucky to have found my purpose very early on in music and I’d even go as far as to say that I don’t think I would’ve made it through life if it hadn’t found me. The wonderful accolades I’ve been fortunate to experience in this journey have all been nice, don’t get me wrong but when all’s said and done, it’s the ‘journey’, the hard graft, the low points that seemed like failing at the time are what I hold closest to my heart. So I guess it’s down to us now to keep fighting the good fight. No we’re not neurosurgeons or curing cancer but we are in our own way healing the world through our music. Here’s to ‘US’ and never giving up in our quest to preserve the integrity of our beloved art form. -Seal
@@bobfrankish8883 Aww 🥰 thank you Brother. It’s feedback like the one you give that in turn gives me the reason to continue making and performing music. ✌🏾&💜
Thanks for that. I'm the bass guitarist and MD in Cyndi's band and I can at least tell you that we had a LOT of monitor issues at Glasto. But yes, everything we played and sang was 100% live.
@weedywet and all power to you and the band for working through that. Seems to have been an issue for quite a few at Glasto this year. That said, I’d still rather get an imperfect live performance than a ‘playback’ with barely anything live happening. That’s how we learnt and got better! I feel sorry for anyone that hasn’t experienced a proper ‘live’ concert.
Back in the day you went to live concerts because you wanted to get a different take on each performance. That was part of the fun of it. It's what you couldn't hear on the radio. Extended versions, amazing guitar or drum solos, raw emotion. People don't know what they are missing. I saw Santana, Chicago, Kiss, Deep Purple, Elvis and more all in the mid 70's through early 80's and they were worth every penny.
ABSOLUTELY!!! When I was a kid I used to think live albums were awful because they didn't sound exactly like what I was used to (the studio versions) but thankfully I very quickly came to appreciate the differences in sound, both subtle and profound and now prefer live recordings for the most part! And that was the exact reason to go to a concert, to see how the artists were presenting material they'd now been exercising on the road. For sure!
That's because you were listening to rock bands and not trashy pop music. You're not going to find this from most of the acts playing at, say, Wacken Open Air, because in the worlds of rock and metal, the skill of the instrumentalists is every bit as important as the vocals.
@@mikedtw Oh, I did love live albums because well back then without a "safety net" you got to hear maybe a missing word or usually the beat was almost always so much faster than the original it lent itself to me just feeling as if i was there - which from 10years old or so I was there & I've the albums though no turntable which with what's out today is much needed in my home. 75 years old, am a singer (not active) I'll pick up my hairbrush mic. Wait, I have real mics now. lol
And penny's they were. I once saw ZZ TOP, Blue Oyster Cult, Savoy Brown, Billy Preston, and Deep Purple for $6.00 advanced $6.50 day of the show. I recently found the ticket, it's why I remembered .
Hi Brother, this is Seal here, (recording artist) and I just want to say a big thank you for what you’re doing. You’re very diplomatic/politically correct when breaking down these performances ….much more so than I 🤬😂. The reality is that the bar is way lower than that of my generation of singers and those who came before me, those whom I looked up to. I often ask myself the question, if I was starting out today would I aspire to be like the artists in this video given what we all know of their performances? The answer is a resounding NFW!! When I was coming up, my heroes were Marvin, Stevie, Joni, Carol. That was the bar then. So it’s really difficult for me to respect any of what I hear coming from these artists today both in terms of live performance AND actual song writing which is a whole other subject entirely. When I was recording my earlier records such as the ones with Kiss From A Rose, Crazy, Love’s Divine etc, auto tune existed but we just didn’t use it as it was frowned upon by my mentor the great Trevor Horn who made me sing it over and over again until I got the fkn thing right. Then he’d make me stack up my harmonies eight times per harmony! So give me flat or sharp notes in a live performance any day over some homogenised, lifeless pitch-corrected version. I just don’t understand the point of faking it live. Where’s the artistry? Where’s the challenge? Where’s the understanding of history? Where’s the f****ing dignity and artistic self-respect?? Anyway, end of rant -Seal
@@MG53v8Honestly I just don’t know what it is and I really don’t wanna sound like one of those ‘oh back in my day’ types but recently some well known rappers came up to my home in LA where I have a studio. They wanted me to do a a-hmm ‘top line’ on something they were making. Now I’m always flattered whenever someone wants me to work with them as collaboration has always been my favourite aspect of music. So I came up with something that I actually thought was okay but not great, anyway I digress. They were happy with it so then I decided to do what I do when approaching my own music which was to; 1. Sing the line until I got one pass right. That means in tune, in time, correct phrasing and most importantly right emotion and feel. 2. Start adding the first of a three part harmony to the main line. Once I got the first harmony right which involved matching the main line and singing it in tune, I then muted the main line and started singing three more passes to the new harmony line, each time muting the previous attempt so that they don’t all stack up while I’m doing them. This way you avoid getting sloppy and you’re best able to maintain critical accuracy. 3. I then repeated the process for the other two harmonies. When I’d completed, I looked over and they were completely gobsmacked and couldn’t if their lives depended on it, figure out why I just didn’t get the computer, ie melodime or whatever it’s called to just automatically spit out the harmonies based off of the original lead line I sang!! To me it was another day at the office because that’s the way I was taught. That’s the way you make ‘RECORDS’ that hopefully withstand the test of time so that when the listener listens to said record for the 100th time, they hear something on the recording that they never heard before. That artform seems all but lost and my heart sinks 😢. I’m not saying this because I’m trying to boast about my work ethic, I’m a very good singer, not great in my opinion. I’m saying this because that’s how ‘WE ALL MADE RECORDS’ when I started out! The recording studio was hallowed ground and you had to earn the respect of your piers to be in it!! Now people make ‘beats’ in a fkn laptop and call themselves producers when most of them couldn’t produce a blow-**b in a brothel!! Gimme a break 🤬 That same laziness and instant gratification is inherent in the live performance. Why sing it in tune when you can use autotune live? Sorry for the rant. 😅
I watched Taylor's concert film to see what the fuss was about so perfect such good visuals such on and off lip synching why have people wasted hundreds to see her live as a dot in the distance or projected on a screen watch the film and have better visuals of her combo live and lip synching show, turning point for me was the Stones in 96 came out asking friends if I had seen the stones or just lots of special effects so different to when I saw them in 82. best recent concerts Suzi Quattro and Bonnie Raitt they sing live, and they use no gimmicky effects. The drive to big arena concerts has been a big factor in the rise of lip synched shows
Hear, hear. And when you catch a live act that truly manages to echo, if not duplicate, their recorded sound you know you're experiencing something special. Those types of shows have long been my favorite.
No two actual live performances of any song will ever match - and that is the beauty of seeing artists performing live. If I want to hear the studio recording, I'll listen to it at home.
Maybe to some people. But I don't see any reason to bother with a live performance that is just like the original recording. I call it a recital and I'd rather just stay home.
@@paulperkins1615the way I interpret "they sound the same as they do on record" is not that they're mimicking the original version exactly, but that the band is as tight and proficient as in the record and the engineering of the audio is on par with the studio sound, but of course the performances differ, maybe the stuff is played faster, the guitar solo is a bit different, the vocals are less perfect. The band recorded material in a studio and is good enough they can play that same material on a live setting
@@CoTeCiOtmIt’s great when the band is tight and has practiced versions of songs that are a little different from the record. It makes you feel lucky to be there.
Amazing that the women whose voices have gone through aging, illness, lifestyle challenges, etc., are the ones CHOOSING to do it authentically. Thanks again, Fil!
I’m a singer, after I got Covid I started having heart, lung and kidney problems. I’m beginning to lose my voice. It’s all I have and if I lose that I will have nothing.
I mean it would look weird if these old women were to do lip syncing with the voices they had in like the 80s, so they kinda had no choice but to sing with their actual voice
The performances on MTV Unplugged were always the best performances from any artist who went on there. Just a small venue, real instruments, and real voices.
Alice in Chains is still my favorite. Layne starts to sing the wrong song but he is a human being so that's fine. Also he's had some.. refreshments, so he's kind of out of it, but it's still sooo good
As a singer myself I can’t imagine using studio recordings in the mix, it’s like these artists are doing karaoke of themselves. The magic happens between the notes when performing live, and the rush of synergy with the band is unbeatable.
Ever since I saw the video when I think of live music I think of Tracy Chapman in June 1988 playing “Fast Car” with nothing but a microphone and a guitar. No software, no backing track, pure music and all the feels.
I saw Laura Marling do the same in Edinburgh. Her band all had the flu so rather than cancel the gig, it was just Laura with a guitar and a mic. It was wonderful.
Hi Fil, I'm a retired live sound engineer from New Zealand, having mixed at least 1000 shows; everything from a solo artist in a bar to international artists at festivals. I am appalled at the quality of sound engineering I often hear at contemporary concerts. At the Big Day out, an historical NZ and Australian series of annual events with major and up and coming international and local artists (on which I managed front of house sound for the second tier stage), it was extremely rare for an artist to have monitor issues like Cynidi has in your video. Recently, I have noticed some sound engineers looking at the screen of their digital mixing console and obviously not listening to the sound they are supposed to be mixing. I appreciaqte what you do on this channel, thanks.
All digital mixer, but no dedicated controls. Because scrolling through menus to find the eq for the backing vocals is so much more fun and easier than just reaching and adjusting
As a musician of too many years standing! I've found that most "sound engineers" aren't very good. Good ones are like hens' teeth and always get the good gigs.
When I saw this vid I also saw a suggestion on my feed for Rick Astley at Glastonbury in 2023 performing Never gonna give you up. That's actually live. Rick nails the vocals, talks to the crowd, introduces each member of the band, lets them play a solo each, then closes out his set with one last chorus of Never Gonna give You up. When the band drops in and out with their solos you can hear them adjust and listen to each other. There's no mistaking that it was a live performance.
More proof Glastonbury is never to be taken seriously (as if we didn't know) when a S/A/W teaboy's soppy 1987 factory-made signature 'tune' is happily welcomed on. And to think he was likely the best thing there, which says it ALL about where we are today in the long dead music scene!
@@kyachdistent1301 Aaahh, I take it you are the font of all musical authority, on what passes as "worthy"? Sure, I don't like the stuff Glasto has on these days. I'm not keen on Rick Astley, but dude is a musician. He's kept performing and playing, even when he wasn't a household name. Sure. His hit was designed as a by the numbers hit. Guess what. That's been happening for as long as the recording industry has existed. Glasto is a buisness. It's always going to pick artists that bring in the money. That's ALWAYS been Glasto. That money doesn't come from ticket sales. Unfortunately, younger audiences are used to pitch perfect recordings, & karioke "live" sets, and I guess modern singers either don't have the confidence to perform live, or they/the record label don't want out of key footage around "damaging" the song. After all, you are never going to leave a Dua Lipa set thinking "gosh, she performed really badly today. Her voice was so off!" Fans are always going to get the "performance" they expect.
We probably have similar tastes. Last year I saw Culture Club, Howard Jones and Berlin. This year it'll be OMD, 10cc and ELO with probably Greenday too. Maybe our generations were spoiled because there are precious few modern artists that I respect, with the notable exception of Ren (amazing artist if you haven't heard him).
It's called performing playback. I'm born in the 90's and back then it was considered lazy and pathetic to perform playback, it has become more and more common. It's great to see some bands actually play and sing on the gig. Also I think this kind of video shouldn't get copyright flagged, you are literally educating us about history and changes about the culture of performing live.
It absolutely shouldn't be copyright struck, it falls neatly into the realm of "fair use". Unfortunately though, copyright claim systems on RUclips are automated and will thus flag things that realistically shouldn't. One can argue the claim, but usually the damage is already done even if the claim actually gets removed. One could also sue in court for damages theoretically, but it's too expensive for it to be worth it
Saw the same thing with Debbie Harry (blondie) last year. She clearly had a problem with her in ear audio and was singing flat, she literally said ‘up up up’ multiple times during the gig. But everyone saying, poor old birds lost her voice. Plus she was 78 years old at the time ffs. Still rocking hard
@@JimNortonsAlcoholism Paul McCartney at Glastonbury a few years ago lol. Then with people getting on in age, Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham are pitch perfect still. Rick Astley and then lots of people in their 50s who have been singing for years at a very high level. Josh Homme has been performing in bands for 38 years at this point and he sounds better than ever. So not sure why Cindie is getting the kid gloves, someone with less notoriety would be absolutely crapped on for such a performance. Like Ellie Rowsell getting flak for basically singing without being able to hear when her in ears were a disaster during a Glastonbury set.
I read some news articles where they really slagged Lauper off for her voice, and fawned over Lipa. The press have been bad at pushing this autotuned "perfection".
Does anyone even know what's going on in the buisness. Gotta be honest if not for Fil I wouldn't know how prevalent it's become. And being a product of the 70s and a tad stupid, thinking how cool it was to stand in front of those huge Marshals, my hearing isn't what it used to be.
And that is why so many artists are leaning on autotune and backing tracks now. The expectation now for both fans and the press is that your live performances will sound exactly like your studio versions
I've been discussing pitch correction with a young (29) co-worker and his argument is that you want the performance to be "perfect." Why would you want to hear something that's not "perfect." And I can't seem to make him see that perfection is the enemy of the music's soul. Perfection is lifeless. It's fake. I have learned so much from your videos about what's wrong with most of the music today. I'll keep my music with all the minor flaws there but also the passion and the glory. Now, I wish you would do an analysis of a singer that I consider one of the greatest voices of all time -- Shawn Phillips, circa 1971. He's 80 now and still does some performing and the control and the breath aren't always there, but he can still SING. And no one sings with more joy than Shawn.
"Perfection" is an interesting one. Because it's kind of bland in a weird way, it's something for everyone. The changes to nuance, pronunciation, pause etc gives more personality. I do wonder if those "imperfections" will be introduced into music production software.
@@jeanpommesAI isn't fighting us. We haven't developed AI that can fight us. The sort of generative AI that came in the scene several years ago needs to be trained with training data, and there are potential problems with training AI models on the output of another. It's like inbreeding or copying audio or video tape. People said the same thing about electronic instruments, all sorts of recorded media, etc. Music is still alive, and we (at least for the time being) have the advantage of "training" on life experience.
Not sure how this thread devolved into AI talk, but to get back on track - take it from another 29 year old that not everyone wants perfection in a recording. The voice is the instrument most inherently capable of communicating emotion, feeling, and intent. When a performer's voice cracks into a cry, you hear what they are feeling at that moment in time. It's a connection that makes music powerful. Stripping all of that away just turns the song into so much less than it could be. Thankfully it's a fad that even among younger generations doesn't affect all bands, genres, etc. My optimistic view of it is that a prerecorded backing track can help preserve a vocalist's voice. IMHO the 'right' way to do marathon singing sessions would be alter the melodies and performance to reduce vocal strain, but I'm also not up there singing as much and as long as a pop star, so my take is gonna be an uninformed one.
It's like the argument made by people who go to a theater with 500 other people and then want everyone to remain completely silent rather than share a crowd experience together. With the audience silent, it's about the same was watching it on your 75" TV from your couch (and then most say they prefer that way over the theater).
Cyndi's always sang "off the lines". That's what makes Cyndi, Cyndi. It's called emotion....:) That's what makes live performances enjoyable. Drum sticks lost or broken. Cymbals falling over. Drum heads breaking with the stage hands scrambling. It all adds to the excitement and uniqueness of watching live. You can say, I was there when that happened. I'll stay home if I want to hear the studio version. Great review Fil....
This! There’s something so unique about a live performance that I love. Like a fingerprint, not a one exactly like the other. I listen for the moment the artist takes a chance, does something a little different than the studio version. That’s the whole reason I love live. That, and the emotional infusion into the song at any particular moment. What would be the point of paying for a “live” concert for anything other than that? I’d rather just watch that at home on a big screen to go along with the “perfect” studio version on Spotify.
So...Milli Vanilli were just "ahead of their time". There's no difference between the "live performance" Milli Vanilli perpetrated in Connecticut in 1989 which ultimately led to their downfall, and what Dua Lipa did at Glastonbury. Well, there IS a difference...audience standards and expectations have slid so low that people under 30 years of age can't notice a difference AND don't even care that the "performers" are doing nothing more than moving about like animatronics. Glastonbury has become akin to an expensive adult oriented Chuck E. Cheese.
@@vaderladyl I agree in principle. However, nobody showed up at the Ed Sullivan show thinking they were getting a "live concert" experience, nor did they pay exorbitant fees to do so.
I went to see a band called Crowded House when I was in my 20s. I had been listening since I was a child, I fell in love with the lyrics and the melody. Seeing them live, they didn't sound EXACTLY the same. The lead singer was white-haired, older, smooth, but a polished voice from a long career of doing this live. I sobbed. Like I was a grown woman just sobbing during some songs because it was such a deeply emotional moment. And you have that magic moment in live concerts, where the crowd is into it and you can FEEL the energy of the performer and it is clear they can feel your energy and there is this back and forth. I feel sorry for younger generations because it was such a beautiful experience that might be harder for them to have. To hear the raw sound of art, still honed. Like the beauty of an old arrow-head. It may seem aged and ragged, but it was honed to a fine point and maintains that same value. If that makes any sense, I'm not great with metaphors.
@imjustsomeguy72 He was my first celebrity crush. I was a little kid and my mum was like "ew no, he's not good looking" but I could NOT be convinced. His words....his voice...the melody. I still have amazing taste in men, unlike my mother 💅
I totally agree! When I first my favorite band do an album on stage it was SO thrilling! Hear the vocals live and how they recreated the album sound so it sounded better live!!
Absolutely. I once saw a concert by some really big metal band. Can't quite remember which one. And about 20 seconds into the song, the singer looked really puzzled and stopped singing. He'd forgotten the lyrics mid-song. So the crowd started chanting the lyrics at him, his face lit up with a broad smile and they just restarted the song with some real power. Was a great and fun experience.
I'm sorry but that's not exactly true. Even going way back, some really talented bands just couldn't reproduce the genius of their studio recordings. I remember being very disappointed when I saw the Moody Blues live. They just didn't capture their exquisitely produced songs live. So as in most things in life, I would say it depends. I also saw Van Morrison live. He was so drunk he couldn't even sing his songs.
It's not false. I'll do some apology for pop shows such as our much loved TS or Dua, where most people have a cell phone nowadays and are recording their own version of the show. In fact, you get such show live on RUclips if you look far enough, all thanks to people with what boils down to portable 4K/60 cameras. People, in pop, expect perfection, expect a dynamic show, people running around, pyros, costume changes, name it, all while being perfect for everyone's cameras as a small bit of baby fat or imperfect mascara will get slammed down. Is it entertaining? OF COURSE it's entertaining, and I recommend these shows all the time. This is not what is expected from old show foggies, or 1st parts, or newcomers. 3 hours worth of Rush (R40 was awesome), Rammstein, Pink Floyd, it's different, it's instrumental at times, it's expected to be less Physical (pun on Dua) for the artists. Cindy, she has the grand luxury of not caring anymore. She's a legend. But she's also not running around the stage doing acrobatics like a P!nk, Halsey, Queen B. Metallica can take smoke breaks and play instruments while posing, it's not their name in the middle of the place (it's their brand, though). Depeche Mode can have Gore play some songs as he's a talented vocalist. No one can play TS, she's the front and only person anyone wants to see in hundreds of shows per year, YET she still plays some live. And Again, Cindy, she earned her live act. -- TL;DR: you are exactly right. Performing rather than Presenting. And IMHO it's sad reality but all right.
Your point about the dancing being more important than the singing is well-made. When I watch performers doing all that frenetic dancing, I just think there's absolutely no way they'd be able to sing and dance like that --- they'd simply be too out of breath, let alone able to control their voices, in such circumstances.
It's done all the time in live theater. We dance hard and are expected to sing as well as if we were standing still. Just saying that's why singers run on treadmills and sing
Madonna did it on her "Blonde Ambition" tour back in the 80's. The dancing was just as strenuous as anything today. Wireless headset mics became fashionable because of her.
The grin on your face as Cyndi went for it! She's so underrated, and I'm old enough to have been a fan since She's So Unusual. That was an incredible moment! Absolute chills!
But it's not, it's Dua singing live, with the record in the mix. What you're thinking of is Top of the Tops, where they mimed to the record. It's plain from this video that Dua is nailing it, live.
I'm playing 2 gigs and a recording session this week. No tricks, no pitch corrections, simply real instruments and voices performing music. It feels like the end of an era, of something that mattered. I'm 75, and I don't know any other way to be, warts, clunkers and all.
With ya! I gig without correctors and a fully live band. Yes we make mistakes, who doesn't. I do feel though either we are forgiven or they are so slight the audience doesn't hear them.
With 22 years as the ops mgr for an audio company behind me now, I have had more engineers say how great Cyndi is live much more than any other artist.
Exactly! I listen to a lot of Japanese bands and their lives are always slightly different, which I love. I even prefer live singing in some cases to studio performances.
I met a 25-year-old the other day that had never heard of Guns’n’Roses, I can almost guarantee she’s never heard of David Bowie either. Edit: Nope, she hadn’t. She asked if he was one of the Beatles.
A teenage runaway from an abusive home who though pure dedication and talent and standing up for her bands fought through years of poverty and struggle to be one of the biggest pop acts in the world, winning a Grammy and selling over 50 million albums. She was at one point big in the pro wrestling scene, too. But as she got older unlike some of her peers she didn’t keep grasping at being young - she mellowed and made more adult contemporary music, won a Tony for a Broadway musical, stuff like that. So she’s been much less famous, much less on the map, but still has a lot of fans. She was sort of seen as the “Madonna alternative” - at one point they were seen as peers but took very different roads. Madonna was the dancer and the spectacle and image, Cyndi Lauper was more the pure singer and musician. They both had and still have very big, distinct personal style and dress, too, but on different levels.
What I love about live concerts is hearing the artist perform. Sometimes, it's "perfect," and sometimes, it's "less" than perfect. Both sound awesome to me. I know what it would sound like if they were in a controlled studio; I've probably already bought the album, but I'm not there for the studio. I'm there at the live concert to hear what they're gonna do that night, whatever it's gonna be.
My band was Faces and they were hilarious live. Start off out of tune, have an argument about who's out of tune, then speed up half way through a song, then realise and slow down, all the while Stewart is singing from a screwed up piece of paper he has brought out of his pocket with the lyrics on. Then suddenly, as if by some divine intervention...magic happens! They all come together as one and it sounds brilliant until the brandy takes over and it falls apart again. Now that's playing live!
Yes! That’s the experience of live music. You feel part of the moment and it’s memorable and fleeting and unrepeatable. Who cares if they f**k up - it’s all part of the fun and it’s evidence that they are human beings.
I love Dua Lipa but when Cyndi belted that note it gave me shivers down my neck. It is a completely different sort of emotional involvement you get when a singer is singing live.
OH, man I'm the opposite I can't Lipa. Every thing even her so called "Live" on Instagram is edited, enhanced, auto tuned. On tv appearances she literally is lip syncing (which better much lip sync has been done on Drag Race). But she always says it's "live". It's the lying about her performances that's a turn off.
Dua Lipa is the personification of today's music: "Interpolating" old hits (formerly known as "stealing") and using a lot of technology to even scam the live viewers. Creativity and authenticity have just left the building.
Live over a prerecorded track does not equal live. You mention the drum balance is different in another post but that would be due to the "live" recording being recorded through the stage equipment.
@@Fadingfool No, it's not due to it being recorded differently. I've lined the tracks up in my DAW and compared them. The drum hits are different. Sometimes the kick (loudest drum part) is a bit later in the live version, other times it's a bit later in the studio versions. These are 100% different drum recordings. Also, you can compare these drum sounds to the drum sounds from other songs from the same performance and you clearly hear that these are live drums.
Except Dua can actually sing and youre objectively wrong if you think otherwise. Listen to her Live Spotify sessions album and if you think she cant sing then youre deaf
What a management team decides to do at a live show doesn't equate to what the performer is capable of. Like the guy above said, watch her smaller live performances on RUclips
To say Dua Lipa is marketing is ignorant. Cyndi was probably more marketed coming out than just about anyone in the 1980s. She was not your typical pop singer so they had to push an image for stations to even play her. They had to pay stations to play her. Yes, her quirky personality was a hit, but it was not without heavy heavy marketing. Get out of here with this bs.
@@WillyJunior Exactly. Putting on a live entertainment show is not just always sitting in front of a mic and singing. Actually that is what happens when you can't do anything else.
Years ago, I was one of the sound engineers ( mixer ) on the Glastonbury Jazz World Stage, live then was live, no backing tracks, the sound was all the bands instruments and the singers voice. It could be nerve wracking when things went a little wrong, and you always felt that you were the last link that HAD to get it right, but the shows were so much more enjoyable than they are today.
As someone who saw Cyndi Lauper opening for Rod Stewart in Australia last year, she doesn't walk around the stage that much but she has stage presence and still has goddamned impressive vocal range for her age. She was utterly fabulous.
I got to see Cyndi live in a smaller venue not too long ago. She sounded amazing. Aging vocal chords notwithstanding, she put everything into her performance. She even came into the crowd while singing. Super authentic, quakity sound, and a wonderful, beautiful experience. On the other side, with Axe Rose last year, while he sounded horrible and Cyndi didn't, I could feel his passion for it like her performance. He gave his all and earned my respect.
The longer I live the more I appreciate that I was around in the 80s and 90s to experience truely life and great music instead of the unbelievably boring mush that's called popular music today. And the longer I live, the more I love Cindy Lauper!
As someone who survived the 80s and 90s I remember how much unbelievably boring mush was played on the radio back then. Please throw away your rose tinted earphones.
Another jaw dropping reveal of what kind of trickery goes on today. All credit to Cyndi!. I was privileged to see Cyndi Lauper and Maria McKee sing acapella, back in the eighties. It was at Maria McKee's show, in London, there was a power failure. Cyndi was obviously backstage. Instead of Maria going off, they stood out there together and sang old standards and gospel stuff for about 20 minutes until the problem was fixed. Absolutely spine tingling.
Wow. McKee has one of the finest voices ever, and while I’ve never liked Lauper she certainly is a great singer. That was something very special. I’m very jealous!
McKee is highly underrated, damn near forgotten these days. I loved Lone Justice (yeah, the revolving line-up may have hurt their becoming more popular), but Maria truly came into her own with those first three solo rekkids in addition to being a session musician and song writer. No backing/accompanying tracks in her live catalogue, that's for damn sure.
Part of the thrill of a great performance is knowing that, like a skilled trapeze artist, there's no safety net underneath. The part that you don't see with Cindy is that, although she's obviously gifted with gorgeous pipes, she apparently has also worked hard to train and nurture her voice to keep it in great shape. It would be easy enough for her to ride the nostalgia gravy train and people would likely still love and respect her for her original artistry. Kudos to her for putting the hard work in, and having the courage to walk on the high wire.
Agree. And not just in terms of performance, but also about the risks they take with the material and where they take it, how free they are with it. I can listen to different recordings of Dire Straits songs because the mixes and the guitar solos are so different each time, such a pleasure.
As someone who mixes a lot of live audio. This is right on. Half the audio is just bail out tracking played loud, maybe add some verb for a touch of live feel. Only thing worse than this is like having to work a DJ show, where this guy trucks in a huge table of gear and is up there acting it out and moving knobs and spinning disks, and typing on keypads on gear thats not even patched in....while a playlist runs on a laptop under the table.
I love these present time eighties pop-stars live performances. Especially because in that eighties era, at that moment, coming from the seventies rock era, those synth-pop style stars had a bit of a reputation of being "fake" because of the abundance of synths and drummachines. And now they're nailing it big time compared to the present day pop stars. Cindy hitting those big notes is just wonderful and her voice being a bit sharp or flat in the run-up makes it even more beautiful.
True, but in the 80s there was always a distinction between the groups that could pull it off live and those that couldn't, at least for people who went to shows and cared about the music, not just the "spectacle." Today it seems like a lot of concert-goers fall into the latter category.
You can't compare them - one is a live performance, and one is glorified karaoke. Less than karaoke even, it's just singing along to the track. Which would be OK if it was billed as such, but it isn't.
At least when you do karaoke you are actually physically singing into a microphone. Still counts as a live performance... it's just a live 'vocal' performance. Even if you suck at singing... you are still actually physically doing the singing, with your lungs physically pushing air through your vocal folds and mouth and into the microphone... and then said microphone converts that into an electrical signal... which is then amplified and sent to the loudspeakers so the audience can hear it! :)) Lip syncing is entirely different obviously... not even close to karaoke.
@@matthewphilip1977 Yes... did I imply anywhere that she was lip syncing in my comment? I was merely addressing the somewhat-implied criticism of of karaoke in the initial comment... "It's just glorified karaoke, not a live performance" or whatever they said. To which I would respond, "umm, karaoke still counts as a live performance". Karaoke is still a live performance even though backing tracks are used instead of a real live band. And that this is unlike lip syncing, which is what should really be getting all the criticism because lip syncing is just not a live performance at all, in any way.
Fabulous analysis! Life long musician here myself. To me the difference is this: you have Dua Lipa constrained by a live track, who might be an S-tier performer but can’t reach their full potential because they’re locked into the playback; vs. Cyndi, a legend who insists on going in raw and risking a few rough spots because of tech issues but willing to risk it for the real deal!
I haven t listened to Cindy in quite a while, and she did a very respectable job here, with flaws here and there, but within logical limits. And she is 71!! Wow!
It was a shame for Cyndi that she had monitoring issues - that's on the sound team, but festival audio is notoriously hard to get right because there's less time to soundcheck etc. Cyndi is still an absolutely awesome vocalist. That belted high note proves it. Goosebumps!
I saw Cindy Lauper live in a small club sometime in the 90’s and I was blown away by how great she really was. I’m quite happy to see her still doing it, and still killing it.
The late Olivia Newton John had a fabulous live voice. We caught her sound check at West Hollywood Pride early that morning. At the time she was around 60-63. Olivia ran through Xanadu even stronger than the album version.
Your channel just popped up on my feed. I love this comparison. I used to sing and have no idea how they manage with ear pieces. I much preferred the old monitors, because, when singing, you can't hear!? I saw Stevie Nicks on Tuesday in Manchester and she was brilliant. She can still belt it out. The songs had been rearranged to suit her voice now, at 76. No auto tune. Brilliant!
Cyndi will never lip sync a performance like this because singing is her religion. You can't make that personal connection with the audience if you're lip syncing, and that connection is what she's there for. Check out her performance of 'Boy Blue' from the Live From Paris video. The song is about one of her closest friends who died from AIDS while she was working on the True Colors album. She absolutely cuts a vein. It's something we'll probably never see again.
Well explained video, Cindi was amazing, 71 and totally live, could not hear herself due to poor mix. Also that’s Emily Estefan, Gloria Estefan’s daughter on percussion for Cindi
The natural joy on his face when listening to Cyndi is the only example you need of why pure live is infinitely better than karaoke version. It has nothing to do with how perfect their vocals are, it has to do with the rawness and beauty of music being performed.
Cyndi sounded great. Heaven knows I am no Britney Spears fan but I did feel sorry for her when she was dragged through the mud for a very out of tune performance many years ago. Most people (ie non-musicians) would not realise that if you can't hear yourself in the monitor, vocal or other instrument, then you are screwed. I know from experience...
I am a thereminist and it is literally impossible for me to play without adequate monitoring (hearing the pitch coming out is the only reference on my instrument as there is no physical reference and the field of the instrument is never exactly the same, so you can’t rely on physical memory if you can’t hear yourself). I have had so many bad experiences with live monitoring I have started to take my own headphones to gigs as a backup, which is not ideal but has just about saved me a bunch of times. I wish people understood this about performers
i was there, it didnt sound great, it sounded awful, but not because of any of the musicians performance onstage, we could barely hear Cyndi. there was something wrong in the mixing for sure. i saw other bands on the same stage and the sound was great. she kept fiddling with her mic/talking backstage to the crew etc. it was clear everyone knew there was a sound problem but they had to soldier on.
It happens often in festivals that only allow a quick line check with the lessor bands. They can usually get things "reasonably" figured out sometime into the first song but sometimes never. You'd think Cyndi would have gotten more of a sound check, but by the comments it doesn't look that way.
@@gertietheduck I wonder what Clara Rockmore did before monitors playing the theremin. That would interesting to find out. Maybe the had monitors then don't know but people definitely trained differently before the 60s when performing. You had to be able to project to the back of the theater as a singer for example. Now people had head mics and stuff.
@@popoff7808 she did what most modern-day therminists still do when they aren’t going through a PA, which is have a dedicated amp behind you. Even with a monitor/PA, it’s still best to have an amp behind you too (but I am limited in what I can carry to gigs as I don’t drive, and my little amp is not loud enough if I am playing on larger stages with a lot of other musicians). especially because you need to hear the dry sound without any effects , loops, etc and with no other instruments. You would place it at head height and use it as your main monitoring system. The idea is that you’d be able to hear yourself louder and before the audience could hear you as the sound would reach your ears first, so you can correct/adjust your playing as you go, especially when you have to come in after a break, because there will always be a tiny, split second adjustment needed to the pitch, if you are coming in cold. If you play quietly enough that you can hear but others can’t you can adjust almost instantaneously before others’ ears pick it up. But yeah, you cannot play accurately on a theremin without hearing yourself. Not even Clara.
There would be outrage, were this Woodstock, Live Aid or nearly or any venue of even one generation ago. The fact there is not, tells us a ton about what has become of the industry 😢
@@Lilah1754 .... The huge venues will certainly be gone, but I think out of the ashes, will arise smaller bands that will form as touring buddies and travel around to play medium sized venues and play authentic music, just like heard at those monster events. Music is changing and there will always be those garage bands, they just wont reach Rolling Stones, Beatles or The Who levels any longer. . Music will survive 🤘can The Kitty get a Bonk for Tunz?🐈😸
There was outrage when Brittney Spears got caught doing the same thing, semi-miming through concerts. People weren’t as willing to accept the excuse back then that the dancing and showmanship mattered more than live singing.
You could go to the opera, you know. No autotune, no pitch correct, not even a mic. Just a single voice, often singing over a full orchestra, filling a hall of a thousand people or so. Real musicianship too.
@@Wyl7 ... Yup. We have seen some big issues made of failed lip syncing and Milli Vanilli comes to mind. Of course, they didn't even sing their own songs in the studio, but authenticity of the artist, rightfully carried more weight than if they had good dance moves. I have little doubt that people like Michael Jackson would lip sync parts at least, but we go back to the mega R&B groups, for great singing and modest dancing. . Many music "artists" today are sold specifically on appearance, charisma and ability to dance in unison with others. If people know that is what they pay for... no problem at all.
I remember watching a Ric Beato video about how concerts and live shows are now more popular than ever, or at least more common. My reasoning was immediately "well yeah, they can do more shows because they're likely just doing playback/lipsync". So by doing lipsync they don't wear out their voices or tire themselves out the way someone doing it for real would. So that means they can do more shows
@@DaveMcIroy I assume you were being ironic there - you do know that it was a comedian that said that, and that no one with any musical knowledge has ever said that?
Thanks for this Fil. I'm glad that I've seen the artists playing live all the way through. As my t shirt says, " I may be old, but I've seen all the great concerts." You have done a great job in teaching what is going on in music.
Not in my wildest dreams would I or anyone from my generation lip sync at a ‘Live Concert’ and it wouldn’t be for fear of being caught because quite frankly ‘todays news wraps tomorrow’s fish’, in other words it’ll all be forgotten. No, the reason why we wouldn’t dream of doing it is out of respect for those that came before us and out of respect for the craft and the audience …out of self respect! We aspired to be like the greats who inspired us and it would’ve been considered ‘lame’ and ‘pathetic’ to fake it to a hard-earned, money paying audience. Sing out of tune, sing with a ropey voice if you have to, who cares ?? It’s LIVE!! I remember back in the day watching the great Al Green perform on a TV show. He had just finished doing some festival gig and his voice was so worn, he could barely speak. That man got up and did one of the greatest live performances of ‘Let’s Stay Together’ that I’ve ever heard. He performed the crap out of that song, he got the audience engaged and you would never have known his voice was in rough shape. I learned something very valuable that day, I learned what it was like and what it takes to be a pro. ✌🏾&💜
Back in the 1980s I had to interview my father for a class assignment, using a lot of set questions and taking notes. He had been born in the 1930s and the majority of the music he liked was pre-1960s. At one point I asked him his opinion of modern Pop music. Dad‘s response is that he noticed a lot of singers really didn’t seem to have a good, strong voice. I remember he said something like “you have all these performance who have a little tiny voice, and then they put it through a microphone and an amplifier.” I shudder to think what he’d think about voice correction, “semi live” almost karaoke, performances, etc. He grew up on Ella Fitzgerald and Frank Sinatra.
Sinatra, Crosby and others were crooners who relied on close mic technique, not by having strong voices like opera singers. They relied on technology a lot. And karaoke singers are all live, however terrible.
When you mentioned at the livestream last night you were going to be talking about Glastonbury, I figured it was Dua Lipa. There was a lot of talk about her miming, and she just said she doesn't mime, but obviously she is just singing along to a backing track which includes multiple vocal tracks. So many artists were having technical problems at Glastonbury, and somehow she wasn't. I am glad you are calling this out, because I think people don't realize that it is not an all or nothing type of thing. I think Avril Lavigne was singing live as well, and had a good set also.
Yes! She was singing live. And she is trying to be ironic and cool while she is singing for dome reason. Well I have seen worse. However so dod she have pre-recorded backning track of her voice on the chorus.
Dua uses studio recorded and manipulated "live" vocals with an active mic. I worked a gig a couple of years back and she was one of the headline acts, and her vocal mix, (with pitch correction), failed. Hearing her ACTUALLY signing live was the longest and most painful 30 minutes of my life; and I've had kidney stones AND viral meningitis.
Maybe I'm just too optimistic but I think most artists actually do most things live, and Dua Lipa is more of an outlier than a rule. At least from the artists I am familiar with, although I do admit I don't pay attention to most popular acts.
My god, I was wondering. I thought she was like 60 though. Now you're making me feel old! I was 8 or so when She's So Unusual came out, and I just fell in love. I have nothing but respect for that woman. Such a vocal talent, a strong advocate for human rights and just so much fun. She made it okay to be weird and different!
Being older, I'm pretty sure every band I saw play and sing live actually did it. I rarely heard a band play a song live the same way it was on the radio. Sometimes that was good, other times not, but the feeling and electricity of the performance never disappointed.
Dua Lipa is fine at what she does, and if this was a Radio 1 or Capital Radio event, nobody would be bothered, but if anything it's the credibility of Glastonbury which is slightly tarnished by having such "non live" live acts performing.
At what she does. And what she does is dance on a stage wiggling her yahoo and pretending to sing but, you know, not really. And when you do her her actual voice, well, let's be honest. That's barely MID on her best day...which is obviously in the studio and not live.
I get all sorts of blowback when I write on social media that Taylor Swift is singing to prerecorded music despite the fact that her band is strumming their instruments on the side of the stage.
Haha, i was watching the eras tour with my wife and was pointing out all the times she was lip syncing and when she was playing/singing live. You can tell because she stops moving on the stage, and focuses way more on her instrument. It's not necessarily a dig, the production of her show is insane. And to do a 3 hour concert every other day for 2 years straight is not attainable if the whole thing was live.
Of course she’s lip syncing parts of the show! She’s has been doing a three-and-a-half hour show for four or five days per week for over a year now. With choreography. No amount of training is going to allow a person’s voice to hold up to that.
As a concert goer of the 80s, I saw artists like Lionel Richie, Survivor, Van Halen, Styx, Journey, Hall and Oates, and several others. Their sound was different from the recordings but it was obvious that they were really singing and playing. It was amazing! Daryl Hall with his live version of Sara Smile gave me chills. Renegade live by Styx was an absolute gem. Today's "musicians" have a tough time replicating the talent of yesteryear. Seal mentioned in his comment that it seems like these performers aren't really challenging themselves. I agree. There are very few musicians today that deserve the title of musician.
What I haven’t seen mentioned yet (and apologies if it has) is how much of this is ‘required’ by the artist’s label (i.e. possibly against the wishes of the artist to perform everything live) to protect the artist’s ‘brand’. If you’ve invested a boatload of cash into an artist and their current album, you may reasonably want to take steps to not jeopardise your return on that investment from the current (and any future) album or tour, by giving a sub-par (or worse) performance. I’ve no issues with a band playing along to a click track (if they need to sync with samples/triggers or tie into elaborate lighting/video effects, to pull in some BVs to thicken up their choruses, or simply to defend against runaway tempos due to adrenalin and give some consistency to their live pacing), but I still want the band to play their instruments and sing.
Fil. I drive my girl friend crazy when I tell her they are not singing live !! :) She says how do you know ?? I told her I just do. Nobody sounds exactly like the original recording live, no matter how good you are :)
@@wout123100 Those professional singers may do a really good job, but do they sound absolutely identical at every performance? In the case of Pink Floyd I've definitely heard several live recordings where they sounded substantially worse than on their albums. Which is quite surprising because when the recordings are that bad they can actually cheat and fix them up afterwards.
This is so refreshing to see! As a lead vocalist in a local blues band, I appreciate you pointing out what goes into a “live” performance of some of the biggest stars. I’m definitely not ever pitch perfect, but I love live music. I love chasing the drummer around if he speeds up or slows down, the little knowing grins between singer and lead guitarist when the bass player missed a bar, the fact that everyone just has to go with the flow. That’s live music and that is what makes it lived in, real, and relatable. Thanks Fil!
Cyndi Lauper: absolutely EPIC the way she hit that high note with everything she got! Clear and sonorous. True artist! I'd be clapping non-stop. This is what live music is supposed to be! If I wanted to listen to the song, I'd just sit at home and play the cd/spotify etc instead of spending my very hard-earned cash for "playback".
I am sixty3 and the 70's and 80's was a great time for live music, the bands never sounded like the records they're not supposed to, forgotten lyrics etc.
Great analysis. I've heard this phenomenon for years, but this video really proves the point. I very much noticed backing tracks at a Coldplay concert in 2017. 95% of the instrumentation of their main hits was pre-recorded. But then, they did have an authentic part of the set, as if to prove they can really play.
Who's going to rush to see the video of Cindy? Of course an amazing artiste, but great to see she can still rock it with her voice and emotion. A true professional.
Liked your use of studio release sync-up, revealing recorded vocals as well as band's backing tracks in Lipa performance. Kudos to Lauper and band for their live "live" performannce!
I can remember playing good sized venues in the 80's.. No click tracks, monitors all over the stage, etc.. all live. You would sound check hours earlier getting the mix as good as possible, only to open the doors, let a few thousand people fill up the arena, and completely mess up the mix you had when it was empty.. The first song was always good and loud, but usually had that dreaded deep low-end hum, feedback here and there, and for some reason, the vocals were always way too low for the first few lines... It was amazing! Ha! Great analysis, sir
I love videos like this SIr! I've been backing Elvis Tribute artists for 25 years now, and the band I'm in has NEVER used a click track or backing track for an "Elvis". We have used the track for the 2001 show intro (but have also used a full symphony orchestra too), Everything we do is LIVE and is what it is what we are doing on stage, mistakes and all!! Way to go Ms. Lauper for what she does!! I love you exposing FAKE BANDS AND SINGERS!!!
Thanks mate for doing this for all of us real music lovers. Appreciate the work you put in. Done with integrity and sincerity. And great fun to watch too!
I remember seeing Mick Hucknall in last year's Radio 2 In The Park. It was obvious that in his first song he couldn't hear an instrument to pitch to and he was off key (but in tune with himself), then suddenly something changed in his ear monitor and he was bang on key for the rest of the performance like the professional he is. Later on we were "treated" to Kylie basically doing the same as Dua Lipa at Glastonbury, but not before the brilliant Beverley Knight showed how a live performance should be done, the way Mick, Cindy and other real performers do.
I mentioned before that I saw Burton Cummings in concert 1 July 24. He sang within his 77 year old range. It was a great performance. I notice these things now which is thanks to you educating me. Thank you for this. Cindy rocks.
This is why bands like Pearl Jam absolutely rock in concert...Eddie doesn't hit every note all the time (and even forgets some of lyrics, he laughs and goes on), does the audience care? Hell no!! It's live, no backing tracks, no autotune! Authentic!!
Glastonbury used to be more of a rock festival. Now it seems to be a heap of pop "PA's" (personal appearances) with backing tracks and formation dances.
It is ironic when the kpop performances at Glastonbury, which are as much dance performance as they are music, are actually sang live more than some of the other artists.
It was never a "rock" festival. It was always a festival of contemporary music. "Contemporary" music has obviously changed a lot in 50 years. It was never a genre festival
To be fair they had had many many ‘oldies’ playing there Cat Stevens last year, Elton John, Paul McCartney and many others. There are less of the Dua Lipa’s than the older artists. But Dua Lipa is - in my mind - a recording artist not a live performer? I’d go for the oldies!
I have learned more about mucic in 3 months of watching your videos than in every music class i had at school conbined. I appreciate music more now thanks to you. Keep up the great work
I wish conversations about this topic among kpop fans were this civilised. Lyp syncing or heavily relying on the backing track is so prelevant there that it's the norm now tbh and it often isn't even the artists choice. I wish someone who doesn't have a bias towards certain groups could research this topic and dissect all the reasons why it happends. Cuz rn fans argue and end up dragging idols that aren't singing live for being weak and those who sign live for not being as perfect as the studio version. Annoys tf out of me. Also would be cool to compare how often this happends in different industries (western music vs kpop, usa vs europe or asia) and music genres (pop, rock... does it even happen in metal or idk blues?). It's a fascinating topic, both comparing how the artists function in different circumstances as well as what is expected of them and how audience reacts.
It's fascinating to see people boldly assert that all of the supposed "singing" that is happening during insane and prolonged choreography is truly live, pitch perfect, and virtually identical to the studio recording. But I suppose admitting it isn't would shatter the illusion of the whole thing.
I couldn't agree more. Having been to concerts from the late 70s up to the early 2000, I could see/hear the change and stopped going. The music started sounding pre-recorded and overproduced in a live setting. And Fil, you are really lovely about the artists - you don't slag on them, you just point out the differences or problems without getting nasty or personal.
yes - thank you for thanking Phil/Fil(??) - it is important not to slag the individual artists off (unless maybe you know them personally/professionally - but then again maybe you should keep this to yourself ha ha!!). If you aren't already an established artist with some clout you probably don't get offered a choice. You are here to sell songs - the song writer doesn't want their song 'messed up', the record company doesn't want their artist to deliver a less than perfect 'product'. There are very few brave souls in the entertainment industry but I won't blame the artist unduly.
![KAYTRANADA - Witchy (feat. Childish Gambino) [Official Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jGK3YVmGZ3Y/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi Everyone. Just wanted to chime in and say a big THANK YOU to everyone who’s replied to my original comment on the subject that the OG Phill posted in this episode. A big thank you to you Phill for the great work you do and the way in which you do it. You’re so non-judgemental, (unlike myself 😅) on the subject and you do a great job in educating me personally. Our industry needs more people like you and we’re all of us lucky to have you. I didn’t see anything from you in my IG DM’s which is okay but just letting you know once agin that you have an open invitation to chat and exchange views via FaceTime as I’m sure there are some who my question that it’s actually me.
As I mentioned above, I wanted to thank all of you that have replied to my original comment. You’ve all said the nicest things about me and I’m humbled. Sorry I haven’t responded to each of you individually but I just wanted you to know that I’ve acknowledged all of your views in response and that I appreciate you all took the time to do so. It’s seems that as a whole we’re in collective agreement with regard to the integrity of this art form that we’re all so privileged to be a part of, no matter the capacity or level in which we do so. I know that I have been so lucky to have found my purpose very early on in music and I’d even go as far as to say that I don’t think I would’ve made it through life if it hadn’t found me. The wonderful accolades I’ve been fortunate to experience in this journey have all been nice, don’t get me wrong but when all’s said and done, it’s the ‘journey’, the hard graft, the low points that seemed like failing at the time are what I hold closest to my heart.
So I guess it’s down to us now to keep fighting the good fight. No we’re not neurosurgeons or curing cancer but we are in our own way healing the world through our music. Here’s to ‘US’ and never giving up in our quest to preserve the integrity of our beloved art form.
-Seal
I've sent over a message via Instagram 🙂
Seal?! As if!! I am 71 now, and you are still one of my all-time favourite artists. Thank you so much for the joy you have given me and many others.
@@bobfrankish8883 Aww 🥰 thank you Brother. It’s feedback like the one you give that in turn gives me the reason to continue making and performing music. ✌🏾&💜
Sir?! thank you for not only for the art you create and created...but also the courage to defend that "art".. I love your work! ❤
The only reason i questioned if it was you was your channel is empty, I was assuming there would be something of you there, which would be nice.
Thanks for that. I'm the bass guitarist and MD in Cyndi's band and I can at least tell you that we had a LOT of monitor issues at Glasto.
But yes, everything we played and sang was 100% live.
we could all see that and all credit to you , i personally enjoyed the set nontheless
@weedywet and all power to you and the band for working through that. Seems to have been an issue for quite a few at Glasto this year. That said, I’d still rather get an imperfect live performance than a ‘playback’ with barely anything live happening. That’s how we learnt and got better! I feel sorry for anyone that hasn’t experienced a proper ‘live’ concert.
Are you going to play with her on the final tour? Can't wait to see it live.
It is so obviously live and all the better for it.
I saw her at RAH and I loved it!
It was one big party and I really really love her.
Back in the day you went to live concerts because you wanted to get a different take on each performance. That was part of the fun of it. It's what you couldn't hear on the radio. Extended versions, amazing guitar or drum solos, raw emotion. People don't know what they are missing. I saw Santana, Chicago, Kiss, Deep Purple, Elvis and more all in the mid 70's through early 80's and they were worth every penny.
Totally agree. Those bands that just played it exactly like the record were criticised. We, the audience wanted it real and a new take.
ABSOLUTELY!!! When I was a kid I used to think live albums were awful because they didn't sound exactly like what I was used to (the studio versions) but thankfully I very quickly came to appreciate the differences in sound, both subtle and profound and now prefer live recordings for the most part! And that was the exact reason to go to a concert, to see how the artists were presenting material they'd now been exercising on the road. For sure!
That's because you were listening to rock bands and not trashy pop music. You're not going to find this from most of the acts playing at, say, Wacken Open Air, because in the worlds of rock and metal, the skill of the instrumentalists is every bit as important as the vocals.
@@mikedtw Oh, I did love live albums because well back then without a "safety net" you got to hear maybe a missing word or usually the beat was almost always so much faster than the original it lent itself to me just feeling as if i was there - which from 10years old or so I was there & I've the albums though no turntable which with what's out today is much needed in my home. 75 years old, am a singer (not active) I'll pick up my hairbrush mic. Wait, I have real mics now. lol
And penny's they were. I once saw ZZ TOP, Blue Oyster Cult, Savoy Brown, Billy Preston, and Deep Purple for $6.00 advanced $6.50 day of the show. I recently found the ticket, it's why I remembered .
I just keep hearing Prince saying “real music by real musicians” in my head over and over again.
Legendary quote from an absolute legend in every way
Same!
❤
Not sure Prince is a good example. You take away the effects pedals and the amps and you have a tinny little toy guitar sound.
Prince was a highly-skilled multi-instrumentalist, vocalist, and songwriter. Regardless of whether you like his songs, his talent was phenomenal.
Hi Brother, this is Seal here, (recording artist) and I just want to say a big thank you for what you’re doing. You’re very diplomatic/politically correct when breaking down these performances ….much more so than I 🤬😂.
The reality is that the bar is way lower than that of my generation of singers and those who came before me, those whom I looked up to. I often ask myself the question, if I was starting out today would I aspire to be like the artists in this video given what we all know of their performances? The answer is a resounding NFW!!
When I was coming up, my heroes were Marvin, Stevie, Joni, Carol. That was the bar then. So it’s really difficult for me to respect any of what I hear coming from these artists today both in terms of live performance AND actual song writing which is a whole other subject entirely.
When I was recording my earlier records such as the ones with Kiss From A Rose, Crazy, Love’s Divine etc, auto tune existed but we just didn’t use it as it was frowned upon by my mentor the great Trevor Horn who made me sing it over and over again until I got the fkn thing right. Then he’d make me stack up my harmonies eight times per harmony! So give me flat or sharp notes in a live performance any day over some homogenised, lifeless pitch-corrected version. I just don’t understand the point of faking it live. Where’s the artistry?
Where’s the challenge?
Where’s the understanding of history?
Where’s the f****ing dignity and artistic self-respect??
Anyway, end of rant
-Seal
Wait, it's you? I remember Kiss from a Rose. Great song. I also agree with everything you've said.
Perfectly stated, thank you.
Absolutely correct, wonderfully said, by the way I love your music!!!
I think its because image and followers first , then fix the rest later.
@@MG53v8Honestly I just don’t know what it is and I really don’t wanna sound like one of those ‘oh back in my day’ types but recently some well known rappers came up to my home in LA where I have a studio. They wanted me to do a a-hmm ‘top line’ on something they were making. Now I’m always flattered whenever someone wants me to work with them as collaboration has always been my favourite aspect of music. So I came up with something that I actually thought was okay but not great, anyway I digress. They were happy with it so then I decided to do what I do when approaching my own music which was to;
1. Sing the line until I got one pass right. That means in tune, in time, correct phrasing and most importantly right emotion and feel.
2. Start adding the first of a three part harmony to the main line. Once I got the first harmony right which involved matching the main line and singing it in tune, I then muted the main line and started singing three more passes to the new harmony line, each time muting the previous attempt so that they don’t all stack up while I’m doing them. This way you avoid getting sloppy and you’re best able to maintain critical accuracy.
3. I then repeated the process for the other two harmonies.
When I’d completed, I looked over and they were completely gobsmacked and couldn’t if their lives depended on it, figure out why I just didn’t get the computer, ie melodime or whatever it’s called to just automatically spit out the harmonies based off of the original lead line I sang!!
To me it was another day at the office because that’s the way I was taught. That’s the way you make ‘RECORDS’ that hopefully withstand the test of time so that when the listener listens to said record for the 100th time, they hear something on the recording that they never heard before.
That artform seems all but lost and my heart sinks 😢. I’m not saying this because I’m trying to boast about my work ethic, I’m a very good singer, not great in my opinion. I’m saying this because that’s how ‘WE ALL MADE RECORDS’ when I started out! The recording studio was hallowed ground and you had to earn the respect of your piers to be in it!!
Now people make ‘beats’ in a fkn laptop and call themselves producers when most of them couldn’t produce a blow-**b in a brothel!! Gimme a break 🤬
That same laziness and instant gratification is inherent in the live performance. Why sing it in tune when you can use autotune live?
Sorry for the rant. 😅
I would rather pay to see an imperfect live performance from a true talent like Cyndi, than what amounts to a download from Spotify, any day.
Imperfect is human. Perfect is silly.
I watched Taylor's concert film to see what the fuss was about so perfect such good visuals such on and off lip synching why have people wasted hundreds to see her live as a dot in the distance or projected on a screen watch the film and have better visuals of her combo live and lip synching show, turning point for me was the Stones in 96 came out asking friends if I had seen the stones or just lots of special effects so different to when I saw them in 82. best recent concerts Suzi Quattro and Bonnie Raitt they sing live, and they use no gimmicky effects. The drive to big arena concerts has been a big factor in the rise of lip synched shows
@@nellie371I think you might be making a good point but it's barely readable
If I wanted a perfect performance, I could stay in the comfort of my easy chair and listen to a recording.
Hear, hear. And when you catch a live act that truly manages to echo, if not duplicate, their recorded sound you know you're experiencing something special. Those types of shows have long been my favorite.
No two actual live performances of any song will ever match - and that is the beauty of seeing artists performing live.
If I want to hear the studio recording, I'll listen to it at home.
@@zxccxz164 as long as it is pop.
the album is cheaper and you can repeat a song, or pause.. :))
"they sound the same live as they do on the record..." - this used to be a compliment
Maybe to some people. But I don't see any reason to bother with a live performance that is just like the original recording. I call it a recital and I'd rather just stay home.
People always said Steve Perry of Journey sounded better live than in studio. That's a compliment not sounding the same.
@@MsJimmysgirl I always hated the way Steve Perry sounded on those Journey records. If he sounded different live, then good for him.
@@paulperkins1615the way I interpret "they sound the same as they do on record" is not that they're mimicking the original version exactly, but that the band is as tight and proficient as in the record and the engineering of the audio is on par with the studio sound, but of course the performances differ, maybe the stuff is played faster, the guitar solo is a bit different, the vocals are less perfect. The band recorded material in a studio and is good enough they can play that same material on a live setting
@@CoTeCiOtmIt’s great when the band is tight and has practiced versions of songs that are a little different from the record. It makes you feel lucky to be there.
Amazing that the women whose voices have gone through aging, illness, lifestyle challenges, etc., are the ones CHOOSING to do it authentically. Thanks again, Fil!
Forgot throat cancer in cyndi's case.
@RetroQueenGamer
Pretty sure that throat cancer counts as an illness.
I’m a singer, after I got Covid I started having heart, lung and kidney problems. I’m beginning to lose my voice. It’s all I have and if I lose that I will have nothing.
Singing is such an wonderful feeling.
I mean it would look weird if these old women were to do lip syncing with the voices they had in like the 80s, so they kinda had no choice but to sing with their actual voice
The performances on MTV Unplugged were always the best performances from any artist who went on there. Just a small venue, real instruments, and real voices.
Yep. Mariah singing before she went crazy was heaven.
Alice in Chains is still my favorite. Layne starts to sing the wrong song but he is a human being so that's fine. Also he's had some.. refreshments, so he's kind of out of it, but it's still sooo good
My favorite Nirvana album was from MTV unplugged.
Oh yeah!
And back then the “real artists” were complaining about MTV!
Well, on second thought, I think “Unplugged” may have been a reaction to that.
@@YtCondonesAnimalAbuseDown In a Hole Unplugged is simply haunting
As a singer myself I can’t imagine using studio recordings in the mix, it’s like these artists are doing karaoke of themselves. The magic happens between the notes when performing live, and the rush of synergy with the band is unbeatable.
Well that's an opinion. Backing vocals have always been a thing
@@DistantCousin Sung live by backing vocalists, not from a recording.
it's not even that. At least in a karaoke bar the person singing is actually singing.
@@patwilson2546 The is Ru Pauls Drag Race lip-sync for your life. LOL!
@@patwilson2546 there were 4 people singing backing vocals on that stage
Ever since I saw the video when I think of live music I think of Tracy Chapman in June 1988 playing “Fast Car” with nothing but a microphone and a guitar. No software, no backing track, pure music and all the feels.
I was at Tracey’s concert in Australia in 88 it was just her and her guitar I was in 6th grade , it was incredible ❤
I saw Laura Marling do the same in Edinburgh. Her band all had the flu so rather than cancel the gig, it was just Laura with a guitar and a mic. It was wonderful.
Tracy could sing a phone directory and it would fantastic. She's so great.
@@Frozy_lolipop Gah! I'm so jealous! I've loved Tracey since I was a kid ❤
@@TheKevinGHutton I don't know who she is, but that is epic! Much respect to Laura and the band 🤗
Hi Fil, I'm a retired live sound engineer from New Zealand, having mixed at least 1000 shows; everything from a solo artist in a bar to international artists at festivals. I am appalled at the quality of sound engineering I often hear at contemporary concerts. At the Big Day out, an historical NZ and Australian series of annual events with major and up and coming international and local artists (on which I managed front of house sound for the second tier stage), it was extremely rare for an artist to have monitor issues like Cynidi has in your video. Recently, I have noticed some sound engineers looking at the screen of their digital mixing console and obviously not listening to the sound they are supposed to be mixing. I appreciaqte what you do on this channel, thanks.
At least these sound engineers have the right political stance to be mixing this festival.
All digital mixer, but no dedicated controls.
Because scrolling through menus to find the eq for the backing vocals is so much more fun and easier than just reaching and adjusting
As a musician of too many years standing! I've found that most "sound engineers" aren't very good. Good ones are like hens' teeth and always get the good gigs.
@@hardlines5472 definitely, alas it is too often about who you know, not what you know
@@hardlines5472 In my experience the majority of rigs are good enough, not so the majority of engineers.
When I saw this vid I also saw a suggestion on my feed for Rick Astley at Glastonbury in 2023 performing Never gonna give you up. That's actually live. Rick nails the vocals, talks to the crowd, introduces each member of the band, lets them play a solo each, then closes out his set with one last chorus of Never Gonna give You up. When the band drops in and out with their solos you can hear them adjust and listen to each other. There's no mistaking that it was a live performance.
I loved that performance! Even the security guards were getting into it.
and he plays drums
More proof Glastonbury is never to be taken seriously (as if we didn't know) when a S/A/W teaboy's soppy 1987 factory-made signature 'tune' is happily welcomed on. And to think he was likely the best thing there, which says it ALL about where we are today in the long dead music scene!
@@kyachdistent1301 Aaahh, I take it you are the font of all musical authority, on what passes as "worthy"?
Sure, I don't like the stuff Glasto has on these days.
I'm not keen on Rick Astley, but dude is a musician. He's kept performing and playing, even when he wasn't a household name. Sure. His hit was designed as a by the numbers hit. Guess what. That's been happening for as long as the recording industry has existed.
Glasto is a buisness. It's always going to pick artists that bring in the money. That's ALWAYS been Glasto.
That money doesn't come from ticket sales.
Unfortunately, younger audiences are used to pitch perfect recordings, & karioke "live" sets, and I guess modern singers either don't have the confidence to perform live, or they/the record label don't want out of key footage around "damaging" the song. After all, you are never going to leave a Dua Lipa set thinking "gosh, she performed really badly today. Her voice was so off!" Fans are always going to get the "performance" they expect.
We probably have similar tastes. Last year I saw Culture Club, Howard Jones and Berlin. This year it'll be OMD, 10cc and ELO with probably Greenday too. Maybe our generations were spoiled because there are precious few modern artists that I respect, with the notable exception of Ren (amazing artist if you haven't heard him).
Blows my mind that Cindy is 71. Absolute legend.
She's good enough for me.
Why does it?
She’s starting he final tour this year. ❤😊 1:22
She wasn't a kid when she broke out.
@@michael3728you goonie!
It's called performing playback. I'm born in the 90's and back then it was considered lazy and pathetic to perform playback, it has become more and more common. It's great to see some bands actually play and sing on the gig.
Also I think this kind of video shouldn't get copyright flagged, you are literally educating us about history and changes about the culture of performing live.
Tis lazy
It absolutely shouldn't be copyright struck, it falls neatly into the realm of "fair use". Unfortunately though, copyright claim systems on RUclips are automated and will thus flag things that realistically shouldn't. One can argue the claim, but usually the damage is already done even if the claim actually gets removed. One could also sue in court for damages theoretically, but it's too expensive for it to be worth it
Same and I have a distinct memory of my family criticizing Britney Spears for this exact thing. Now it’s become the norm.
Thank you for highlighting Cyndi, it drvies me bonkers people trying to drag her vocals, she's working hard at 71 :)
Saw the same thing with Debbie Harry (blondie) last year. She clearly had a problem with her in ear audio and was singing flat, she literally said ‘up up up’ multiple times during the gig. But everyone saying, poor old birds lost her voice. Plus she was 78 years old at the time ffs. Still rocking hard
I hope I sound as good singing at 71!
I mean there are better examples of artists in their 80s and 90s nailing the vocals tbh.
@@tecnoguy1136who?
@@JimNortonsAlcoholism Paul McCartney at Glastonbury a few years ago lol.
Then with people getting on in age, Stevie Nicks and Lindsay Buckingham are pitch perfect still. Rick Astley and then lots of people in their 50s who have been singing for years at a very high level. Josh Homme has been performing in bands for 38 years at this point and he sounds better than ever. So not sure why Cindie is getting the kid gloves, someone with less notoriety would be absolutely crapped on for such a performance. Like Ellie Rowsell getting flak for basically singing without being able to hear when her in ears were a disaster during a Glastonbury set.
I read some news articles where they really slagged Lauper off for her voice, and fawned over Lipa. The press have been bad at pushing this autotuned "perfection".
The British press is usually terrible about anything good.
Does anyone even know what's going on in the buisness. Gotta be honest if not for Fil I wouldn't know how prevalent it's become. And being a product of the 70s and a tad stupid, thinking how cool it was to stand in front of those huge Marshals, my hearing isn't what it used to be.
@@davidwhitfield6432- I'm a product of the 90s and maybe the last generation silly enough to stand in front of massive Marshals 😅
They build up who they want…untalented women who just shake their bodies…It’s singing and the music I want. Not your butt or boobs!
And that is why so many artists are leaning on autotune and backing tracks now. The expectation now for both fans and the press is that your live performances will sound exactly like your studio versions
I've been discussing pitch correction with a young (29) co-worker and his argument is that you want the performance to be "perfect." Why would you want to hear something that's not "perfect." And I can't seem to make him see that perfection is the enemy of the music's soul. Perfection is lifeless. It's fake. I have learned so much from your videos about what's wrong with most of the music today. I'll keep my music with all the minor flaws there but also the passion and the glory. Now, I wish you would do an analysis of a singer that I consider one of the greatest voices of all time -- Shawn Phillips, circa 1971. He's 80 now and still does some performing and the control and the breath aren't always there, but he can still SING. And no one sings with more joy than Shawn.
This is why AI music will lose.
"Perfection" is an interesting one. Because it's kind of bland in a weird way, it's something for everyone. The changes to nuance, pronunciation, pause etc gives more personality. I do wonder if those "imperfections" will be introduced into music production software.
@@jeanpommesAI isn't fighting us. We haven't developed AI that can fight us. The sort of generative AI that came in the scene several years ago needs to be trained with training data, and there are potential problems with training AI models on the output of another. It's like inbreeding or copying audio or video tape.
People said the same thing about electronic instruments, all sorts of recorded media, etc.
Music is still alive, and we (at least for the time being) have the advantage of "training" on life experience.
Not sure how this thread devolved into AI talk, but to get back on track - take it from another 29 year old that not everyone wants perfection in a recording. The voice is the instrument most inherently capable of communicating emotion, feeling, and intent. When a performer's voice cracks into a cry, you hear what they are feeling at that moment in time. It's a connection that makes music powerful. Stripping all of that away just turns the song into so much less than it could be.
Thankfully it's a fad that even among younger generations doesn't affect all bands, genres, etc. My optimistic view of it is that a prerecorded backing track can help preserve a vocalist's voice. IMHO the 'right' way to do marathon singing sessions would be alter the melodies and performance to reduce vocal strain, but I'm also not up there singing as much and as long as a pop star, so my take is gonna be an uninformed one.
It's like the argument made by people who go to a theater with 500 other people and then want everyone to remain completely silent rather than share a crowd experience together.
With the audience silent, it's about the same was watching it on your 75" TV from your couch (and then most say they prefer that way over the theater).
Cyndi's always sang "off the lines". That's what makes Cyndi, Cyndi.
It's called emotion....:)
That's what makes live performances enjoyable.
Drum sticks lost or broken. Cymbals falling over. Drum heads breaking with the stage hands scrambling.
It all adds to the excitement and uniqueness of watching live. You can say, I was there when that happened.
I'll stay home if I want to hear the studio version.
Great review Fil....
This! There’s something so unique about a live performance that I love. Like a fingerprint, not a one exactly like the other. I listen for the moment the artist takes a chance, does something a little different than the studio version. That’s the whole reason I love live. That, and the emotional infusion into the song at any particular moment. What would be the point of paying for a “live” concert for anything other than that? I’d rather just watch that at home on a big screen to go along with the “perfect” studio version on Spotify.
Sort of. Pretty sure she wasn’t doing it all intentionally. They clearly had monitoring problems.
Stay home. No more grumpy arm crossers at shows.
So...Milli Vanilli were just "ahead of their time".
There's no difference between the "live performance" Milli Vanilli perpetrated in Connecticut in 1989 which ultimately led to their downfall, and what Dua Lipa did at Glastonbury.
Well, there IS a difference...audience standards and expectations have slid so low that people under 30 years of age can't notice a difference AND don't even care that the "performers" are doing nothing more than moving about like animatronics.
Glastonbury has become akin to an expensive adult oriented Chuck E. Cheese.
Have said this for years now. Milli Vanilli were simply pioneers of what people wanted (or were satisfied with) from popular music... ;o)
Well said.
I don't know but this was common on TV shows back in the day.
@@vaderladyl I agree in principle. However, nobody showed up at the Ed Sullivan show thinking they were getting a "live concert" experience, nor did they pay exorbitant fees to do so.
It's TOTALLY different! Milli Vanilli DID NOT do the actual singing on their recordings. All the vocals were done by session musicians, not the duo.
I went to see a band called Crowded House when I was in my 20s. I had been listening since I was a child, I fell in love with the lyrics and the melody. Seeing them live, they didn't sound EXACTLY the same. The lead singer was white-haired, older, smooth, but a polished voice from a long career of doing this live.
I sobbed. Like I was a grown woman just sobbing during some songs because it was such a deeply emotional moment.
And you have that magic moment in live concerts, where the crowd is into it and you can FEEL the energy of the performer and it is clear they can feel your energy and there is this back and forth.
I feel sorry for younger generations because it was such a beautiful experience that might be harder for them to have. To hear the raw sound of art, still honed. Like the beauty of an old arrow-head. It may seem aged and ragged, but it was honed to a fine point and maintains that same value. If that makes any sense, I'm not great with metaphors.
They were and are a great group! I loved singing 'Dont Dream, it's Over' at work...hey now hey now.....😂
I just saw Crowded House last year. They’re still so good!
Neil still has it. I think they've either just finished or are currently touring a new album. Neil's voice still rings like a bell.
@imjustsomeguy72 He was my first celebrity crush. I was a little kid and my mum was like "ew no, he's not good looking" but I could NOT be convinced. His words....his voice...the melody. I still have amazing taste in men, unlike my mother 💅
This experience is still available to switched on people who seek out indie music, those shows are much cheaper or even free
Live should just be live. No safety net, warts and all. That’s what we want, and real talent always delivers.
I totally agree! When I first my favorite band do an album on stage it was SO thrilling! Hear the vocals live and how they recreated the album sound so it sounded better live!!
Absolutely. I once saw a concert by some really big metal band. Can't quite remember which one.
And about 20 seconds into the song, the singer looked really puzzled and stopped singing. He'd forgotten the lyrics mid-song. So the crowd started chanting the lyrics at him, his face lit up with a broad smile and they just restarted the song with some real power. Was a great and fun experience.
I'm sorry but that's not exactly true. Even going way back, some really talented bands just couldn't reproduce the genius of their studio recordings. I remember being very disappointed when I saw the Moody Blues live. They just didn't capture their exquisitely produced songs live. So as in most things in life, I would say it depends. I also saw Van Morrison live. He was so drunk he couldn't even sing his songs.
The Roots are one of those bands. World class, beyond talent, live shows are their perfected skill.
and that's what we pay for
Cyndi is performing rather than presenting. That is the difference.
It's not false. I'll do some apology for pop shows such as our much loved TS or Dua, where most people have a cell phone nowadays and are recording their own version of the show. In fact, you get such show live on RUclips if you look far enough, all thanks to people with what boils down to portable 4K/60 cameras. People, in pop, expect perfection, expect a dynamic show, people running around, pyros, costume changes, name it, all while being perfect for everyone's cameras as a small bit of baby fat or imperfect mascara will get slammed down. Is it entertaining? OF COURSE it's entertaining, and I recommend these shows all the time. This is not what is expected from old show foggies, or 1st parts, or newcomers. 3 hours worth of Rush (R40 was awesome), Rammstein, Pink Floyd, it's different, it's instrumental at times, it's expected to be less Physical (pun on Dua) for the artists. Cindy, she has the grand luxury of not caring anymore. She's a legend. But she's also not running around the stage doing acrobatics like a P!nk, Halsey, Queen B. Metallica can take smoke breaks and play instruments while posing, it's not their name in the middle of the place (it's their brand, though). Depeche Mode can have Gore play some songs as he's a talented vocalist. No one can play TS, she's the front and only person anyone wants to see in hundreds of shows per year, YET she still plays some live. And Again, Cindy, she earned her live act. -- TL;DR: you are exactly right. Performing rather than Presenting. And IMHO it's sad reality but all right.
Doh. of course Dua is performing too. You're talking rubbish. She performed her arse off
Good observation
@@DistantCousin Her backing track is performing, idk what Dua was doing the no talent slag
@@shootinputin6332woah! Strong feelings for dus lips there! lol
George Michael live was incredible and he just used his backing singers to help him harmonise and literally back up
highly underrated vocalist
No, there was huge amount of processing on his live vocals.
Don't talk stupid@@EmsXGuitar
Your point about the dancing being more important than the singing is well-made. When I watch performers doing all that frenetic dancing, I just think there's absolutely no way they'd be able to sing and dance like that --- they'd simply be too out of breath, let alone able to control their voices, in such circumstances.
That's exactly what I thought.
Then they should just be dancers only. Otherwise they're just charlatans.
It's done all the time in live theater. We dance hard and are expected to sing as well as if we were standing still. Just saying that's why singers run on treadmills and sing
I'd like to see an analysis of Janet Jackson in the Rhythm Nation days. She danced and sang and YES she was often out of breath.
Madonna did it on her "Blonde Ambition" tour back in the 80's. The dancing was just as strenuous as anything today. Wireless headset mics became fashionable because of her.
The grin on your face as Cyndi went for it! She's so underrated, and I'm old enough to have been a fan since She's So Unusual. That was an incredible moment! Absolute chills!
I came here to say the same thing. Fil was giddy lol. (I'm old too :) )
I had her album with Blue Angel on vinyl... She was/is amazing.
As we said back in the day, if it sounds just like the record, it is the record.
But it's not, it's Dua singing live, with the record in the mix. What you're thinking of is Top of the Tops, where they mimed to the record. It's plain from this video that Dua is nailing it, live.
@matthewphilip1977 did we watch two different videos?
@@matthewphilip1977 Not even Freddy Mercury was able to sound the same live as in the studio. If a legend like him couldn't do it, no one can.
I'm playing 2 gigs and a recording session this week. No tricks, no pitch corrections, simply real instruments and voices performing music. It feels like the end of an era, of something that mattered. I'm 75, and I don't know any other way to be, warts, clunkers and all.
Good for you.👍
I appreciate an artist that really performs and cares.
With ya! I gig without correctors and a fully live band. Yes we make mistakes, who doesn't. I do feel though either we are forgiven or they are so slight the audience doesn't hear them.
RESPECT
@@tonywardle4764 Making the occasional mistake tells the audience you are real and live, and putting in the work.
With 22 years as the ops mgr for an audio company behind me now, I have had more engineers say how great Cyndi is live much more than any other artist.
Bowie was also a legend live. He always changed his songs, which was part of the fun of live recordings.
Exactly! I listen to a lot of Japanese bands and their lives are always slightly different, which I love. I even prefer live singing in some cases to studio performances.
Thanks for the information, I've never heard of this Bowie band, so grateful to get obscure recommendations, thanks for being original.
@@jacktadash You must be fun at parties... And your retort didn't even make sense.
I met a 25-year-old the other day that had never heard of Guns’n’Roses, I can almost guarantee she’s never heard of David Bowie either.
Edit: Nope, she hadn’t. She asked if he was one of the Beatles.
@@lucasthompson1650 Cheesus Crisp! *throws chair out for the 10th floor* WHAT?!
Cyndi Lauper, forever a legend.
Who that?
A teenage runaway from an abusive home who though pure dedication and talent and standing up for her bands fought through years of poverty and struggle to be one of the biggest pop acts in the world, winning a Grammy and selling over 50 million albums. She was at one point big in the pro wrestling scene, too.
But as she got older unlike some of her peers she didn’t keep grasping at being young - she mellowed and made more adult contemporary music, won a Tony for a Broadway musical, stuff like that. So she’s been much less famous, much less on the map, but still has a lot of fans.
She was sort of seen as the “Madonna alternative” - at one point they were seen as peers but took very different roads. Madonna was the dancer and the spectacle and image, Cyndi Lauper was more the pure singer and musician. They both had and still have very big, distinct personal style and dress, too, but on different levels.
@@fenzelian i aint reading all of that
What I love about live concerts is hearing the artist perform. Sometimes, it's "perfect," and sometimes, it's "less" than perfect. Both sound awesome to me. I know what it would sound like if they were in a controlled studio; I've probably already bought the album, but I'm not there for the studio. I'm there at the live concert to hear what they're gonna do that night, whatever it's gonna be.
My band was Faces and they were hilarious live. Start off out of tune, have an argument about who's out of tune, then speed up half way through a song, then realise and slow down, all the while Stewart is singing from a screwed up piece of paper he has brought out of his pocket with the lyrics on. Then suddenly, as if by some divine intervention...magic happens! They all come together as one and it sounds brilliant until the brandy takes over and it falls apart again. Now that's playing live!
Great comment! I wasn't a fan but that makes me wish I'd seen them.
Yes! That’s the experience of live music. You feel part of the moment and it’s memorable and fleeting and unrepeatable. Who cares if they f**k up - it’s all part of the fun and it’s evidence that they are human beings.
Like when you have a 30 minute set list, but the drummer is so efficient the band powers through it in 25.
❤your a lucky man Ross....
And that's rock'n'roll!! Exactly how it should be 🖤
I love Dua Lipa but when Cyndi belted that note it gave me shivers down my neck. It is a completely different sort of emotional involvement you get when a singer is singing live.
Don't understand how anyone can like Dua Lipa she's awful, I'd rather they had the Spice Girls 😂😂
@@adamknight7041 Beautiful mouth piece. That's it.
@@adamknight7041I agree!! Her music is obnoxious party girl music 🙄
OH, man I'm the opposite I can't Lipa. Every thing even her so called "Live" on Instagram is edited, enhanced, auto tuned. On tv appearances she literally is lip syncing (which better much lip sync has been done on Drag Race). But she always says it's "live". It's the lying about her performances that's a turn off.
@@adamknight7041 It might surprise you but people have different taste in music and that's okay (and before you say anything, I'm a punk)
Dua Lipa is the personification of today's music: "Interpolating" old hits (formerly known as "stealing") and using a lot of technology to even scam the live viewers. Creativity and authenticity have just left the building.
She is a great singer live. I suggest you actually go and watch a live performance of hers.
😂
Cyndi was dogged by the press for singing out of time; but how many included that she had sound issues for her entire set
Part of Cyndi's style was to always sing off the beat,today's music scene can't handle that
@@whenimeetgod She was so far behind the beat the next band had already started playing.
@@MGrayl-ib5fo 🤣🤣🤣
@@whenimeetgod she's one that lives to her own beat.
IIRC she said that her in ear monitors were lagging
This is so well explained. Cyndi Lauper is the real thing...and the band as well. A truly live performance...
So was Dua Lipa. It's live. Most of it at least. it's very clear when you watch other songs from the same performance.
Cyndi is great but she's just walking around.
Live over a prerecorded track does not equal live. You mention the drum balance is different in another post but that would be due to the "live" recording being recorded through the stage equipment.
@@jorellhshe is 71 do expect wild antics now. She was great.
@@Fadingfool No, it's not due to it being recorded differently. I've lined the tracks up in my DAW and compared them. The drum hits are different. Sometimes the kick (loudest drum part) is a bit later in the live version, other times it's a bit later in the studio versions. These are 100% different drum recordings. Also, you can compare these drum sounds to the drum sounds from other songs from the same performance and you clearly hear that these are live drums.
Cyndi Lauper = Talent. Dua Lipa = Marketing
Except Dua can actually sing and youre objectively wrong if you think otherwise. Listen to her Live Spotify sessions album and if you think she cant sing then youre deaf
What a management team decides to do at a live show doesn't equate to what the performer is capable of. Like the guy above said, watch her smaller live performances on RUclips
To say Dua Lipa is marketing is ignorant. Cyndi was probably more marketed coming out than just about anyone in the 1980s. She was not your typical pop singer so they had to push an image for stations to even play her. They had to pay stations to play her. Yes, her quirky personality was a hit, but it was not without heavy heavy marketing. Get out of here with this bs.
@@WillyJunior Exactly. Putting on a live entertainment show is not just always sitting in front of a mic and singing. Actually that is what happens when you can't do anything else.
Nonsense. She sucks. @@ShadowsP40
Years ago, I was one of the sound engineers ( mixer ) on the Glastonbury Jazz World Stage, live then was live, no backing tracks, the sound was all the bands instruments and the singers voice.
It could be nerve wracking when things went a little wrong, and you always felt that you were the last link that HAD to get it right, but the shows were so much more enjoyable than they are today.
As someone who saw Cyndi Lauper opening for Rod Stewart in Australia last year, she doesn't walk around the stage that much but she has stage presence and still has goddamned impressive vocal range for her age. She was utterly fabulous.
I got to see Cyndi live in a smaller venue not too long ago. She sounded amazing. Aging vocal chords notwithstanding, she put everything into her performance. She even came into the crowd while singing. Super authentic, quakity sound, and a wonderful, beautiful experience.
On the other side, with Axe Rose last year, while he sounded horrible and Cyndi didn't, I could feel his passion for it like her performance. He gave his all and earned my respect.
The longer I live the more I appreciate that I was around in the 80s and 90s to experience truely life and great music instead of the unbelievably boring mush that's called popular music today. And the longer I live, the more I love Cindy Lauper!
Are the great genuine 80's-90's sound of Milli Vanilli and mimed tv performances.
Me too!
@sergiovogel2449 I love her too - and it comes through her creativity. I want to be her friend. : )
Modern pop is totally boring now
As someone who survived the 80s and 90s I remember how much unbelievably boring mush was played on the radio back then. Please throw away your rose tinted earphones.
Another jaw dropping reveal of what kind of trickery goes on today. All credit to Cyndi!. I was privileged to see Cyndi Lauper and Maria McKee sing acapella, back in the eighties. It was at Maria McKee's show, in London, there was a power failure. Cyndi was obviously backstage. Instead of Maria going off, they stood out there together and sang old standards and gospel stuff for about 20 minutes until the problem was fixed. Absolutely spine tingling.
Wow. McKee has one of the finest voices ever, and while I’ve never liked Lauper she certainly is a great singer. That was something very special. I’m very jealous!
Do you remember the year?
@@europatelemakos2819 It might have been Duke of York Theatre which would put it in 1989. Hope that helps.
WOW that would be epic! They are both incredibly talented! ❤❤
McKee is highly underrated, damn near forgotten these days. I loved Lone Justice (yeah, the revolving line-up may have hurt their becoming more popular), but Maria truly came into her own with those first three solo rekkids in addition to being a session musician and song writer.
No backing/accompanying tracks in her live catalogue, that's for damn sure.
ever notice that everyone smiles with pleasure when Cyndi holds those notes ?
Cyndi is a true beauty, barefoot in a red dress in 1989 and now 71 years old in Glastonbury in 2024. Long live Cyndi!
Oh yes, she really is. She’s a doll *and* a sweetheart
Part of the thrill of a great performance is knowing that, like a skilled trapeze artist, there's no safety net underneath. The part that you don't see with Cindy is that, although she's obviously gifted with gorgeous pipes, she apparently has also worked hard to train and nurture her voice to keep it in great shape. It would be easy enough for her to ride the nostalgia gravy train and people would likely still love and respect her for her original artistry. Kudos to her for putting the hard work in, and having the courage to walk on the high wire.
Great comment. Agree 💯
Agree. And not just in terms of performance, but also about the risks they take with the material and where they take it, how free they are with it. I can listen to different recordings of Dire Straits songs because the mixes and the guitar solos are so different each time, such a pleasure.
Precisely! ❤
As someone who mixes a lot of live audio. This is right on. Half the audio is just bail out tracking played loud, maybe add some verb for a touch of live feel. Only thing worse than this is like having to work a DJ show, where this guy trucks in a huge table of gear and is up there acting it out and moving knobs and spinning disks, and typing on keypads on gear thats not even patched in....while a playlist runs on a laptop under the table.
I love these present time eighties pop-stars live performances. Especially because in that eighties era, at that moment, coming from the seventies rock era, those synth-pop style stars had a bit of a reputation of being "fake" because of the abundance of synths and drummachines. And now they're nailing it big time compared to the present day pop stars. Cindy hitting those big notes is just wonderful and her voice being a bit sharp or flat in the run-up makes it even more beautiful.
True, but in the 80s there was always a distinction between the groups that could pull it off live and those that couldn't, at least for people who went to shows and cared about the music, not just the "spectacle." Today it seems like a lot of concert-goers fall into the latter category.
You can't compare them - one is a live performance, and one is glorified karaoke. Less than karaoke even, it's just singing along to the track. Which would be OK if it was billed as such, but it isn't.
At least when you do karaoke you are actually physically singing into a microphone. Still counts as a live performance... it's just a live 'vocal' performance. Even if you suck at singing... you are still actually physically doing the singing, with your lungs physically pushing air through your vocal folds and mouth and into the microphone... and then said microphone converts that into an electrical signal... which is then amplified and sent to the loudspeakers so the audience can hear it! :)) Lip syncing is entirely different obviously... not even close to karaoke.
Let's also take a moment to say Dua Lipa's songs are crap and totally unmemorable unlike Cyndi Laupa's.
Ozzy's last tour he had another guy off stage singing his parts, what would you call that other that Sharron is a Shekel Grubber?
@@justinnaramor6050 But she's not lip synching, she's singing live, and nailing it, as the guy in this video demonstrated.
@@matthewphilip1977 Yes... did I imply anywhere that she was lip syncing in my comment? I was merely addressing the somewhat-implied criticism of of karaoke in the initial comment... "It's just glorified karaoke, not a live performance" or whatever they said. To which I would respond, "umm, karaoke still counts as a live performance". Karaoke is still a live performance even though backing tracks are used instead of a real live band. And that this is unlike lip syncing, which is what should really be getting all the criticism because lip syncing is just not a live performance at all, in any way.
Fabulous analysis! Life long musician here myself. To me the difference is this: you have Dua Lipa constrained by a live track, who might be an S-tier performer but can’t reach their full potential because they’re locked into the playback; vs. Cyndi, a legend who insists on going in raw and risking a few rough spots because of tech issues but willing to risk it for the real deal!
I haven t listened to Cindy in quite a while, and she did a very respectable job here, with flaws here and there, but within logical limits. And she is 71!! Wow!
Cyndi makes this video worth watching. She's real!
It was a shame for Cyndi that she had monitoring issues - that's on the sound team, but festival audio is notoriously hard to get right because there's less time to soundcheck etc.
Cyndi is still an absolutely awesome vocalist. That belted high note proves it. Goosebumps!
I saw Cindy Lauper live in a small club sometime in the 90’s and I was blown away by how great she really was. I’m quite happy to see her still doing it, and still killing it.
The late Olivia Newton John had a fabulous live voice. We caught her sound check at West Hollywood Pride early that morning. At the time she was around 60-63. Olivia ran through Xanadu even stronger than the album version.
Your channel just popped up on my feed. I love this comparison. I used to sing and have no idea how they manage with ear pieces. I much preferred the old monitors, because, when singing, you can't hear!? I saw Stevie Nicks on Tuesday in Manchester and she was brilliant. She can still belt it out. The songs had been rearranged to suit her voice now, at 76. No auto tune. Brilliant!
Cyndi will never lip sync a performance like this because singing is her religion. You can't make that personal connection with the audience if you're lip syncing, and that connection is what she's there for. Check out her performance of 'Boy Blue' from the Live From Paris video. The song is about one of her closest friends who died from AIDS while she was working on the True Colors album. She absolutely cuts a vein. It's something we'll probably never see again.
nicely said.
Well explained video, Cindi was amazing, 71 and totally live, could not hear herself due to poor mix.
Also that’s Emily Estefan, Gloria Estefan’s daughter on percussion for Cindi
The natural joy on his face when listening to Cyndi is the only example you need of why pure live is infinitely better than karaoke version. It has nothing to do with how perfect their vocals are, it has to do with the rawness and beauty of music being performed.
Cyndi sounded great. Heaven knows I am no Britney Spears fan but I did feel sorry for her when she was dragged through the mud for a very out of tune performance many years ago. Most people (ie non-musicians) would not realise that if you can't hear yourself in the monitor, vocal or other instrument, then you are screwed. I know from experience...
I am a thereminist and it is literally impossible for me to play without adequate monitoring (hearing the pitch coming out is the only reference on my instrument as there is no physical reference and the field of the instrument is never exactly the same, so you can’t rely on physical memory if you can’t hear yourself). I have had so many bad experiences with live monitoring I have started to take my own headphones to gigs as a backup, which is not ideal but has just about saved me a bunch of times. I wish people understood this about performers
i was there, it didnt sound great, it sounded awful, but not because of any of the musicians performance onstage, we could barely hear Cyndi. there was something wrong in the mixing for sure. i saw other bands on the same stage and the sound was great. she kept fiddling with her mic/talking backstage to the crew etc. it was clear everyone knew there was a sound problem but they had to soldier on.
It happens often in festivals that only allow a quick line check with the lessor bands. They can usually get things "reasonably" figured out sometime into the first song but sometimes never. You'd think Cyndi would have gotten more of a sound check, but by the comments it doesn't look that way.
@@gertietheduck I wonder what Clara Rockmore did before monitors playing the theremin. That would interesting to find out. Maybe the had monitors then don't know but people definitely trained differently before the 60s when performing. You had to be able to project to the back of the theater as a singer for example. Now people had head mics and stuff.
@@popoff7808 she did what most modern-day therminists still do when they aren’t going through a PA, which is have a dedicated amp behind you. Even with a monitor/PA, it’s still best to have an amp behind you too (but I am limited in what I can carry to gigs as I don’t drive, and my little amp is not loud enough if I am playing on larger stages with a lot of other musicians). especially because you need to hear the dry sound without any effects , loops, etc and with no other instruments. You would place it at head height and use it as your main monitoring system. The idea is that you’d be able to hear yourself louder and before the audience could hear you as the sound would reach your ears first, so you can correct/adjust your playing as you go, especially when you have to come in after a break, because there will always be a tiny, split second adjustment needed to the pitch, if you are coming in cold. If you play quietly enough that you can hear but others can’t you can adjust almost instantaneously before others’ ears pick it up. But yeah, you cannot play accurately on a theremin without hearing yourself. Not even Clara.
There would be outrage, were this Woodstock, Live Aid or nearly or any venue of even one generation ago. The fact there is not, tells us a ton about what has become of the industry 😢
I doubt there will ever be live concerts like those two again. At least not in my lifetime!! Maybe one day, but I doubt it!
@@Lilah1754 .... The huge venues will certainly be gone, but I think out of the ashes, will arise smaller bands that will form as touring buddies and travel around to play medium sized venues and play authentic music, just like heard at those monster events. Music is changing and there will always be those garage bands, they just wont reach Rolling Stones, Beatles or The Who levels any longer.
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Music will survive 🤘can The Kitty get a Bonk for Tunz?🐈😸
There was outrage when Brittney Spears got caught doing the same thing, semi-miming through concerts. People weren’t as willing to accept the excuse back then that the dancing and showmanship mattered more than live singing.
You could go to the opera, you know. No autotune, no pitch correct, not even a mic. Just a single voice, often singing over a full orchestra, filling a hall of a thousand people or so. Real musicianship too.
@@Wyl7 ... Yup. We have seen some big issues made of failed lip syncing and Milli Vanilli comes to mind. Of course, they didn't even sing their own songs in the studio, but authenticity of the artist, rightfully carried more weight than if they had good dance moves. I have little doubt that people like Michael Jackson would lip sync parts at least, but we go back to the mega R&B groups, for great singing and modest dancing.
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Many music "artists" today are sold specifically on appearance, charisma and ability to dance in unison with others. If people know that is what they pay for... no problem at all.
I remember watching a Ric Beato video about how concerts and live shows are now more popular than ever, or at least more common. My reasoning was immediately "well yeah, they can do more shows because they're likely just doing playback/lipsync". So by doing lipsync they don't wear out their voices or tire themselves out the way someone doing it for real would. So that means they can do more shows
Ringo Starr (mid-1990s) "I'm the f**king click track!"
Despite him not even being the best drummer in The Beatles.
@@DaveMcIroy I assume you were being ironic there - you do know that it was a comedian that said that, and that no one with any musical knowledge has ever said that?
@@annamariaisland1960, a couple of musicians said that. 🤷🏻♂️
@@DaveMcIroy Imagine how John felt. He wasn't the best drummer, lead guitarist, bassist or singer.
@@darthminogue, guess why he killed Paul and replaced him with Billy!
Thanks for this Fil. I'm glad that I've seen the artists playing live all the way through. As my t shirt says, " I may be old, but I've seen all the great concerts." You have done a great job in teaching what is going on in music.
Not in my wildest dreams would I or anyone from my generation lip sync at a ‘Live Concert’ and it wouldn’t be for fear of being caught because quite frankly ‘todays news wraps tomorrow’s fish’, in other words it’ll all be forgotten. No, the reason why we wouldn’t dream of doing it is out of respect for those that came before us and out of respect for the craft and the audience …out of self respect! We aspired to be like the greats who inspired us and it would’ve been considered ‘lame’ and ‘pathetic’ to fake it to a hard-earned, money paying audience.
Sing out of tune, sing with a ropey voice if you have to, who cares ?? It’s LIVE!!
I remember back in the day watching the great Al Green perform on a TV show. He had just finished doing some festival gig and his voice was so worn, he could barely speak. That man got up and did one of the greatest live performances of ‘Let’s Stay Together’ that I’ve ever heard. He performed the crap out of that song, he got the audience engaged and you would never have known his voice was in rough shape. I learned something very valuable that day, I learned what it was like and what it takes to be a pro.
✌🏾&💜
@@seal-nowweretalking6753 you’ve always been a man of integrity and we thank you for that 🫶💕
Back in the 1980s I had to interview my father for a class assignment, using a lot of set questions and taking notes. He had been born in the 1930s and the majority of the music he liked was pre-1960s. At one point I asked him his opinion of modern Pop music. Dad‘s response is that he noticed a lot of singers really didn’t seem to have a good, strong voice. I remember he said something like “you have all these performance who have a little tiny voice, and then they put it through a microphone and an amplifier.” I shudder to think what he’d think about voice correction, “semi live” almost karaoke, performances, etc. He grew up on Ella Fitzgerald and Frank Sinatra.
Sinatra, Crosby and others were crooners who relied on close mic technique, not by having strong voices like opera singers. They relied on technology a lot. And karaoke singers are all live, however terrible.
When you mentioned at the livestream last night you were going to be talking about Glastonbury, I figured it was Dua Lipa. There was a lot of talk about her miming, and she just said she doesn't mime, but obviously she is just singing along to a backing track which includes multiple vocal tracks. So many artists were having technical problems at Glastonbury, and somehow she wasn't. I am glad you are calling this out, because I think people don't realize that it is not an all or nothing type of thing. I think Avril Lavigne was singing live as well, and had a good set also.
Yes! She was singing live. And she is trying to be ironic and cool while she is singing for dome reason. Well I have seen worse. However so dod she have pre-recorded backning track of her voice on the chorus.
Beth ditto of gossip didn't have a problem singing live. She was fantastic
So in essence what Dua Lipa is doing on stage is actually Karaoke (singing to a pre-recorded backing track) rather than a ‘live’ performance.
Dua uses studio recorded and manipulated "live" vocals with an active mic.
I worked a gig a couple of years back and she was one of the headline acts, and her vocal mix, (with pitch correction), failed.
Hearing her ACTUALLY signing live was the longest and most painful 30 minutes of my life; and I've had kidney stones AND viral meningitis.
Maybe I'm just too optimistic but I think most artists actually do most things live, and Dua Lipa is more of an outlier than a rule. At least from the artists I am familiar with, although I do admit I don't pay attention to most popular acts.
This is one of the reason why i listen to rock and metal music. The vocals dont always sound perfect live but at least it is live, it has integrity.
Also keep in mind that Dua Lipa is 28, and Cyndi Lauper is 71. I'll take the senior citizen doing it by herself anyday!
Please stop saying Cyndi's age, it's making me feel incredibly old 😅
My god, I was wondering. I thought she was like 60 though. Now you're making me feel old! I was 8 or so when She's So Unusual came out, and I just fell in love. I have nothing but respect for that woman. Such a vocal talent, a strong advocate for human rights and just so much fun. She made it okay to be weird and different!
Being older, I'm pretty sure every band I saw play and sing live actually did it. I rarely heard a band play a song live the same way it was on the radio. Sometimes that was good, other times not, but the feeling and electricity of the performance never disappointed.
Recently saw The Guess Who live. Old School amps on stage, full drum kit, and minimalist set up. Best concert ever.
Dua Lipa is fine at what she does, and if this was a Radio 1 or Capital Radio event, nobody would be bothered, but if anything it's the credibility of Glastonbury which is slightly tarnished by having such "non live" live acts performing.
The credibility of Glastonbury hasn't existed for at least 2 decades. I would rather pay for a completely unnecessary dental extraction.
Credibility of Glastonbury is long gone.
At what she does. And what she does is dance on a stage wiggling her yahoo and pretending to sing but, you know, not really. And when you do her her actual voice, well, let's be honest. That's barely MID on her best day...which is obviously in the studio and not live.
Being fine at picking your nose is nothing to be admired.
She's an auto tuned fraud who created forgettable dreck.
@@jungatheart6359 What, you mean Glastonbury isn't a bunch of stoned hippies lost in some field any more? Noooooooooo!
I get all sorts of blowback when I write on social media that Taylor Swift is singing to prerecorded music despite the fact that her band is strumming their instruments on the side of the stage.
Funny considering all her song are so easy to "sing" since she's basically just talking in all of them, sing-talking I call it
She's manufactured, bottom to top. That anyone fails to notice co tinues to astound me.
Haha, i was watching the eras tour with my wife and was pointing out all the times she was lip syncing and when she was playing/singing live. You can tell because she stops moving on the stage, and focuses way more on her instrument.
It's not necessarily a dig, the production of her show is insane. And to do a 3 hour concert every other day for 2 years straight is not attainable if the whole thing was live.
you admit to using social media, and talk about it like it's somehow normal?
Of course she’s lip syncing parts of the show! She’s has been doing a three-and-a-half hour show for four or five days per week for over a year now. With choreography. No amount of training is going to allow a person’s voice to hold up to that.
As a concert goer of the 80s, I saw artists like Lionel Richie, Survivor, Van Halen, Styx, Journey, Hall and Oates, and several others. Their sound was different from the recordings but it was obvious that they were really singing and playing. It was amazing! Daryl Hall with his live version of Sara Smile gave me chills. Renegade live by Styx was an absolute gem. Today's "musicians" have a tough time replicating the talent of yesteryear. Seal mentioned in his comment that it seems like these performers aren't really challenging themselves. I agree. There are very few musicians today that deserve the title of musician.
What I haven’t seen mentioned yet (and apologies if it has) is how much of this is ‘required’ by the artist’s label (i.e. possibly against the wishes of the artist to perform everything live) to protect the artist’s ‘brand’. If you’ve invested a boatload of cash into an artist and their current album, you may reasonably want to take steps to not jeopardise your return on that investment from the current (and any future) album or tour, by giving a sub-par (or worse) performance. I’ve no issues with a band playing along to a click track (if they need to sync with samples/triggers or tie into elaborate lighting/video effects, to pull in some BVs to thicken up their choruses, or simply to defend against runaway tempos due to adrenalin and give some consistency to their live pacing), but I still want the band to play their instruments and sing.
Fil. I drive my girl friend crazy when I tell her they are not singing live !! :) She says how do you know ?? I told her I just do. Nobody sounds exactly like the original recording live, no matter how good you are :)
well, ever hear profession oparasingers and soloartists? and what about pinkfloyd, they sound better live than on the albums.
The give away here is that no one can dance and singe so CLEAN at the same time. It’s just impossible
You are correct. I tried to listen to Dua Lipa's Glasto bit and I instantly switched off coz I could tell she was NOT singing live. She simply wasn't.
@@wout123100 Those professional singers may do a really good job, but do they sound absolutely identical at every performance? In the case of Pink Floyd I've definitely heard several live recordings where they sounded substantially worse than on their albums. Which is quite surprising because when the recordings are that bad they can actually cheat and fix them up afterwards.
This is so refreshing to see! As a lead vocalist in a local blues band, I appreciate you pointing out what goes into a “live” performance of some of the biggest stars.
I’m definitely not ever pitch perfect, but I love live music. I love chasing the drummer around if he speeds up or slows down, the little knowing grins between singer and lead guitarist when the bass player missed a bar, the fact that everyone just has to go with the flow. That’s live music and that is what makes it lived in, real, and relatable. Thanks Fil!
Its the reason 70s music touches your soul so deeply. The human & soul connection.
Cyndi Lauper: absolutely EPIC the way she hit that high note with everything she got! Clear and sonorous. True artist! I'd be clapping non-stop.
This is what live music is supposed to be! If I wanted to listen to the song, I'd just sit at home and play the cd/spotify etc instead of spending my very hard-earned cash for "playback".
Cyndi Lauper is a freakin legend!
I am sixty3 and the 70's and 80's was a great time for live music, the bands never sounded like the records they're not supposed to, forgotten lyrics etc.
Usually because the guys on the records weren't the guys on stage!!
@@jonchilds1637so true man
@@michaelwills1926 Is it, what a fanny.
@@jonchilds1637 Well, Milli Vanilli for one. There weren't many others.
@@RebeccaTurner-ny1xx don’t recall seeing much of Milli Vanilli in the 70’s!!
Just hearing Cyndi "count down" the band sounds good to me!
Great analysis. I've heard this phenomenon for years, but this video really proves the point. I very much noticed backing tracks at a Coldplay concert in 2017. 95% of the instrumentation of their main hits was pre-recorded. But then, they did have an authentic part of the set, as if to prove they can really play.
Cyndi Lauper still has her touch. She's better than Madona without a doub!
Madonna was always a better dancer than singer.
I've loved Cyndi Lauper since the '80s. This kind of thing just makes me love her more. Thanks, Fil. :)
Also a nice study to see how Dua Lipa is more or less exposed with hardly a single negative word used.
She has to wear less to divert the audience from the "singing".
Who's going to rush to see the video of Cindy? Of course an amazing artiste, but great to see she can still rock it with her voice and emotion. A true professional.
I just did that. She was amazing. And yet the critics tore into her.
Yes, but she has signed on to do an avatar like ABBA Voyage (she made a video about it a few months ago) and that disappoints me on some level.
@@jimandlizhudson2501it sounded awful to the crowd. There may have been reasons, but nonetheless it didn’t sound good,
Liked your use of studio release sync-up, revealing recorded vocals as well as band's backing tracks in Lipa performance.
Kudos to Lauper and band for their live "live" performannce!
I can remember playing good sized venues in the 80's.. No click tracks, monitors all over the stage, etc.. all live. You would sound check hours earlier getting the mix as good as possible, only to open the doors, let a few thousand people fill up the arena, and completely mess up the mix you had when it was empty.. The first song was always good and loud, but usually had that dreaded deep low-end hum, feedback here and there, and for some reason, the vocals were always way too low for the first few lines... It was amazing! Ha! Great analysis, sir
I love videos like this SIr! I've been backing Elvis Tribute artists for 25 years now, and the band I'm in has NEVER used a click track or backing track for an "Elvis". We have used the track for the 2001 show intro (but have also used a full symphony orchestra too), Everything we do is LIVE and is what it is what we are doing on stage, mistakes and all!! Way to go Ms. Lauper for what she does!! I love you exposing FAKE BANDS AND SINGERS!!!
Thanks mate for doing this for all of us real music lovers. Appreciate the work you put in. Done with integrity and sincerity. And great fun to watch too!
I remember seeing Mick Hucknall in last year's Radio 2 In The Park. It was obvious that in his first song he couldn't hear an instrument to pitch to and he was off key (but in tune with himself), then suddenly something changed in his ear monitor and he was bang on key for the rest of the performance like the professional he is. Later on we were "treated" to Kylie basically doing the same as Dua Lipa at Glastonbury, but not before the brilliant Beverley Knight showed how a live performance should be done, the way Mick, Cindy and other real performers do.
I mentioned before that I saw Burton Cummings in concert 1 July 24. He sang within his 77 year old range. It was a great performance. I notice these things now which is thanks to you educating me. Thank you for this. Cindy rocks.
Lip Syncing was a real setback for poor Ashley Simpson. Now it is cool.
This is why bands like Pearl Jam absolutely rock in concert...Eddie doesn't hit every note all the time (and even forgets some of lyrics, he laughs and goes on), does the audience care? Hell no!! It's live, no backing tracks, no autotune! Authentic!!
Glastonbury used to be more of a rock festival. Now it seems to be a heap of pop "PA's" (personal appearances) with backing tracks and formation dances.
Dancing is a valid art form. Trends come and go.
Call it a dance festival then, certainly wasn’t a music one.
It is ironic when the kpop performances at Glastonbury, which are as much dance performance as they are music, are actually sang live more than some of the other artists.
It was never a "rock" festival. It was always a festival of contemporary music. "Contemporary" music has obviously changed a lot in 50 years. It was never a genre festival
To be fair they had had many many ‘oldies’ playing there Cat Stevens last year, Elton John, Paul McCartney and many others. There are less of the Dua Lipa’s than the older artists. But Dua Lipa is - in my mind - a recording artist not a live performer? I’d go for the oldies!
I have learned more about mucic in 3 months of watching your videos than in every music class i had at school conbined. I appreciate music more now thanks to you. Keep up the great work
I wish conversations about this topic among kpop fans were this civilised. Lyp syncing or heavily relying on the backing track is so prelevant there that it's the norm now tbh and it often isn't even the artists choice. I wish someone who doesn't have a bias towards certain groups could research this topic and dissect all the reasons why it happends. Cuz rn fans argue and end up dragging idols that aren't singing live for being weak and those who sign live for not being as perfect as the studio version. Annoys tf out of me.
Also would be cool to compare how often this happends in different industries (western music vs kpop, usa vs europe or asia) and music genres (pop, rock... does it even happen in metal or idk blues?). It's a fascinating topic, both comparing how the artists function in different circumstances as well as what is expected of them and how audience reacts.
It's fascinating to see people boldly assert that all of the supposed "singing" that is happening during insane and prolonged choreography is truly live, pitch perfect, and virtually identical to the studio recording. But I suppose admitting it isn't would shatter the illusion of the whole thing.
I couldn't agree more. Having been to concerts from the late 70s up to the early 2000, I could see/hear the change and stopped going. The music started sounding pre-recorded and overproduced in a live setting. And Fil, you are really lovely about the artists - you don't slag on them, you just point out the differences or problems without getting nasty or personal.
yes - thank you for thanking Phil/Fil(??) - it is important not to slag the individual artists off (unless maybe you know them personally/professionally - but then again maybe you should keep this to yourself ha ha!!). If you aren't already an established artist with some clout you probably don't get offered a choice. You are here to sell songs - the song writer doesn't want their song 'messed up', the record company doesn't want their artist to deliver a less than perfect 'product'. There are very few brave souls in the entertainment industry but I won't blame the artist unduly.