I mean, people were angry af that The Weeknd canceled mid-show because his VOICE went out. Like he literally couldn’t sing and people were pissed at him. He came out to face 70k people and told them what happened, which I respect him so much for. He was in tears walking off the stage. He promised them refunds and a new show. They all got refunds and TWO new shows to close out his tour. People still wanted refunds for food, beer, travel expenses, and MERCH which is the stupidest one. Many of them said he should just lip sync. Which he would never do, therefore they weren’t set up for something like that. Just using this as an example of how ridiculous and demanding fans can be of these artists, as if they aren’t human and shit doesn’t happen. I will say that it doesn’t help that Ronnie has had to cancel quite a few shows this tour. But again, after three years of not playing live because of the pandemic, I’m giving all these artists a lot more room to get back into the groove of things before I become super critical.
I was using backing and click tracks 8 years ago in church bands because no, we didn't have a full orchestra but it sounded like we did. None of the guitars, drums, or vocals were in the tracks. It helped us practice and sound more professional because that's what they wanted. It wasn't a cop-out, it actually made us sound better. It also made it painfully obvious when we weren't on beat.
That's also what a lot of the oldschool bands and artists don't recognize: playing consistently to a click track is way, way harder. Bands like Polyphia wouldn't be able to perform without them.
@@snooginsivmf Musicians naturally drag or rush tempo. Lots of factors at play. Nerves, room temp, how you’re feeling that day can all affect how you perform. Click tracks keep you honest. That’s why when I hear a good drummer that naturally keeps perfect time (rare) I say “that guy is a metronome”. Even if a band isn’t using tracks, you can bet your ass the drummer probably has a click in his ear.
@@elliscody06 I get that. The metal band I used to play with we changed tempo alot in our style. It helped hide slowing and speeding up. When i play with the church tho, the drummer has a click track. In church we rotate musicians and songs so the click helps there vs in the metal band we had a set of songs and a solid line up.
When I pay for a concert I just want a great sounding show. If a band needs/wants backing tracks to best reproduce their music in a live setting I’m all for it.
I have no problem with bands using tracks. But, they should be able to play some of their stuff without it. Instead of cancelling all together. And just explained to the crowd.
@Tan Jenner The issue is it's more than just backing tracks. It's their preset lighting, their preset pitch shifts, their musical and vocal effect shifts, screen shows, etc... You can't just pull a crew out of nowhere to do all that for you last minute so you sound like you should.
"Back in my day" blah blah blah. The music industry and technology have alwayz been at odds, going back to the invention of the CD. Napster was an even bigger shock that the industry STILL hasn't figured out. Embrace tech, or become obsolete, like BAS 🦇🕷🕸🤘 -J.s.
@@scottbulinski5450 And if a band has electronic parts like Linkin Park, Bad Omens, Bring me the Horizon, etc? Can’t replicate synths or 808’s live. Exactly.
There was another show FIR did recently where the backing track for Popular Monster wasn't working, so the guitar players and the bassist began singing the synthesizer/bass parts acapella while Ronnie rapped. Then they got the track to work, so they started all over again. It was pretty funny.
Thank you for clarifying this. I’m ‘old school’ & was really disappointed in Ronnie (who I think is awesome btw) but now I understand that tracks & lip syncing are completely different. And why they cancelled. Cheers Tank!
I'm old school as well but was in a band for a while in my younger days. "Tracks" are a normal part of live music. Even Bach uses them. He is just such a dumbass that he cant understand the concept. He is just being a bully and Ronnie isnt putting up with it. Falling in Reverse isnt my thing but I completely understand why he would defend his band from that fuckass. I never hear anything good about Bach anymore. He needs to stand up from his lawn chair, go inside and quit trying to gatekeep metal. No kids are on his lawn and he is pissed about it.
People should not jump to conclusions and follow some nitwit screamers like a Sebastian Bach ( how can you take a dude with that name serious?) This is typical American and does not happen in Europe. I am an old skool banger too and very aware we, fans, are more and more demanding and backing tracks are normal these days. I hardly know bands who don't use them. Negative bs like this is so NOT metal.
@@monicacarolina6480 I wanted to defend him and say it's his parents fault and a normal German name, but that's a stage name? Why would he do that?? Delusions of grandeur 😂 At least his normal name is also German and nature related - and hard for US Americans to pronounce.
Even Queen used "Backing Tracks" in the 1970s when they played Bohemian Rhapsody in the "Opera Section". They probably used tape back then. If they had played that section live, they would have needed to tour with a full choir just to perform for a few minutes.
14 years ago I saw Manowar perform a record breaking 5 hour show in my country. It was all kinds of awesome, but there were a lot of technical problems - one of them was when the backing track with Orson Welles' voice that they used for "Defender" didn't start on time for some reason, so they had to stop and start playing the song from the beginning. I said it under your previous video covering this matter, and I'll say it again - people who complain about backing tracks often have no idea what they're talking about. No, Metallica don't bring a child actor on stage for "Enter Sandman". No, Manowar can't raise Orson Welles from the dead for "Defender" or "Dark Avenger". (Also, during their tour in 2019, Manowar had a keyboardist for their shows in Europe, but he couldn't go to Mexico, so they used a backing track for his parts. Just mentioning.) No, epic power metal bands don't bring full orchestras in the clubs they perform in. No, Iron Maiden don't bring a voice actor on stage to read that passage from The Book of Revelations in the beginning of "The Number of the Beast". And so on. If you hear something that is not on stage, it is likely a backing track - and there is nothing wrong with this, as long as the backing track isn't there to replace the performance.
Dave mustaine from Metallica was dead set against backing vocals or backing of any kind and still is he's okay if they're used like for the amps and the equipment but not for vocals and music. For the most part Metallica does bring back up singers and extra musicians to play in the background but you're absolutely correct I don't think they could have done Master of Puppets as a whole without backing tracks. But also be fair, I have no idea how the other members of Metallica feel about backing tracks I don't know if they've ever been as vocal about them as Dave was I can't recall Lars or James saying anything.
I mean, I'm a huge Devin Townsend fan, and as talented as he is, he couldn't tour without either using backing tracks or radically rearranging his songs. It's kind of what happens when you've got about 20 things going on at the same time in a song.
@@BeachDreamere No one says Dave Mustaine from Metallica. MEGADEATH has been around since 1983 that is 40 years. Not as commercially successful as Metallica but in the Metal community they are top tier.
And Powerwolf. Their bass is a backing track, because they have no bass player. One of the guitarists plays the bass on their recordings and also pre records his bass for the live shows. He just prefers to play the guitar for the effect and sound of another live guitar. Not to mention the orchestra and chorus backing tracks they have too.
@@corythompson8508 I thought it was a little weird as well but it isn't like he just pulled Mustaine being in Metallica out of his ass as he was a founding member. I don't know anyone else who has phrased it that way before, though lol
I can't ever imagine Nightwish performing The Greatest Show on Earth without time-coded fireworks in key moments. Mate... The Big Bang! The wow factor! Why the hell not!? I hope there's no one out there trying to make a claim that Nightwish members don't know their musicianship because of this.
Just imagine bands like EPICA, Nightwish, Wintersun or other death metal/symphonic metal bands without backing tracks playing live will be almost impossible. Judas Priest use backing trakcs to...
The Milli Vanilli incident really changed a lot of things. Lip syncing is like cheating to me. But backing tracks has never bothered me because no one is pretending the main part of the song. What Im most impressed with is the sound people that mix live playing and backing tracks together to sound perfect.
As a pure consumer of music (or non-musician) I really don't care how a live show becomes the awesome experience that I love to have. If they use tracks or whatever to get a crowd having fun with them then that's how it is. And if a band says that they can't produce a certain feeling at their live shows without certain equipment and feeling themselves something it's missing, then I think it's okay to say "nope, can't do it". Sure, it's bad for me, since I don't get my concert at this specific day, but I rather wait for another time to see the bands I want to see with their best performance possible. Modern concerts are way beyond just instruments and amplifiers. In my opinion concerts are more a place for a musical experience that includes more than just the music itself (lights, the band interacting with the crowd etc). If I just want "the music" I can listen to that at home. But at a concert/show I want to experience more than that.
If the technology is necessary to replace it exactly like the album you don't really even need the band, just play a laptop and a light show like a rave and have at it. The subtle differences a band playing live without a click or backing tracks to replicate the exact sound of the album is why I play and watch bands . I never want to pay to see Stadium shows ever again.
@@bassicly4250 I do get where you're coming from - would it be fair to guess that you especially like acoustic tours from bands? What I don't think is that most bands try to 'exactly replicate' their studio versions of the tracks, but certain elements that are maybe kinda iconic to their songs. For example AC/DC does bring their "bell" sometimes with them, but when they start playling "Hell's Bells", that bell doesn't do the sound. Or take maybe M.I.A. with "Paper planes" and the cashier box sound that's a central element of the song. Or think of Eminem with "Stan" - that rain sound is iconic and not that easily replicated in an analog way. Regarding the stadium shows I'd like to know more of what you don't like about them. 'Just' the higher chance of back/click tracks or is there more to it that bothers you?
Ronnie is a perfectionist and prefers to skip a show if something doesn't fit. He has proven often enough that he is a good singer and has a great and talented band behind him. I have absolutely no problem with a band using backing tracks. Greetings from Germany :)
I think of it this way: does anyone actually think Lorna Shore or Shadow of Intent travel with an orchestra and a choir? Of course not! So why the hell does anyone think a modern band can put on a show without these backing tracks? Think of all the electronic effects that go into Falling in Reverse songs...how do these people think FIR would make a live show work without this?
I second that. People (ESPECIALLY music boomers) ought to understand that that's how the biz runs nowadays. You CANNOT play music without backing tracks, laptops and the whole shenanigans to HELP the band doing what they need to do.
Do those band's songs fall apart and become unlistenable without the backing tracks, though? Most good songs can be arranged differently and still sound great. Did Johnny Cash's cover of "Hurt" suck because it didn't have all the electronic effects Reznor used? I don't have an issue with bands using tracks, but when you're cancelling shows because you don't have access to them, it makes it look like you're using them as a crutch instead of a tool.
@@mattb.2740 I got your point, but I still disagree with it. Bands can work without all those backing tracks, but depending on what kind of a concert a band wants to show, the kind of experience the band wants their audience to feel, the backing tracks are a must have. The example you gave, "Hurt", works really good as an simple acoustic version. But a song like "Zombified", for example, must have the backing tracks to fulfill the ambience the song originally has. It's not just an issue of "is this band capable enough to play really good without any backing tracks?", it's more of "how this song would sound and how the crowd would feel if we play the same song without all that ambience we added on studio version?".
@@mattb.2740 I imagine if they had time to rehearse WITHOUT the backing tracks they could most def pull it off, but when they had zero time to practice the songs without them, as I imagine they'd have to rearrange some of them, then yes I understand cancelling the show. I honestly don't even know if I have heard a song by these guys, but realistically I agree with what they did and having to cancel. That being said how stupid to have both the main and back up laptops in the same place lol
I saw Falling in Reverse live at Inkcarceration earlier this year and genuinely had fun listening to them. I think they could have still put on a good show without the computers, but they probably wouldn't have been satisfied with the performance, and if the band isn't happy nobody will be happy.
@@sebastianrawk I literally said "they could have put on a good show without the computers" where did you get that I said they wouldn't put on a decent show?
@@sebastianrawk I believe you are a musician, try to replicate one of those last 3 songs Falling in reverse did. I believe you can’t. Why? Try it. Those songs are performable live in a decent form, but you need preparation and lots of extra gear to do it. There’s no way they could have get all the gear needed on time. Not mentioning a shit load of more Roadies for lighting and pyros at the right time… moving platforms etc…
The biggest issue is the lack of data backup. Cancelation for missing equipment is fair, but certain bands entire live show can be completely destroyed if important part of their equipment went missing. Data loss is annoying but also avoidable. Look at Einstürzende Neubauten, they have very unique self made instruments, if those were ever stolen, the can't play certain songs live.
From what I heard, it was both the main laptop - and back-up laptop - which, were found in a different state. If that is true.. I’d have SO MANY various ways to access whatever is needed, to run said show - one of which, kept on me, at all times. Perhaps it’s overkill, though, these “never happened before” instances are entirely avoidable; and if the entire show runs on something such as this - overkill is necessary. However, it’s an important lesson for Ronnie - and perhaps he’ll come to understand HIS responsibility, in all of this - as well as it provided everyone with some great entertainment and content/conversation material. So, it’s still a win/win, in my eyes. Lol
After your last video about tracks I was hoping you'd make this video. Thank you for this! The true story about why bands do use tracks and why it has absolutely nothing to do with lip-synching or ripping off their audiences - quiet the contrary - needs to be spread.
One of my favorite bands Ice Nine Kills, during their song Hip to be Scared, they have an 80’s synth before the breakdown. And in a live setting, they have it as a backing track and Spencer Charnas does the talking during that segment live but once he starts using the axe before the breakdown, his microphone is away from his mouth and you can hear the backing track finish the verse. It definitely adds to the theatrical setting.
With "watch the world burn" out now I feel like this whole charade has aged like wine for Ronnie. Couldn't have more respect to a man with his own principles. I'll always root for those that stay true to their principles.
Yeah, and they would have to spend a lot of money to feed them and have somewhere for them to sleep. It would be too inconvenient and expensive for them to hire a full orchestra. Pulse what if they're playing in a small venue where would they have the room.
For me the best example of how much laptops and backing tracks can elevate the show is Lorna Shore. Imagine Lorna shore without the epic orchestra background. I see how FIR can be like, it wouldn't sound like FIR and we don't want to give a bad experience to fans, but yes, they should have at least 5 backups and then hace backups of those backups.
Hey man, I'm SO glad I found your channel!! I also, had my "15 MIN of fame" back in the early 2000's, being a fill in drummer for a touring opening act, while the band's drummer hand was healing, from driving a screwdriver thru it....long story lol Anyway, love, LOVE the stories brother, keep up the good work and much success!!!
Basically Bach is at the point that even if he realizes he might be wrong, he is not going to apologize at all. I also don't think I have ever been to a concert that has not used some form of track at all. Plenty of bands have fancy openers are crazy video/light shows.
Nothing to do with vocals, imagine a Falling in Reverse show without Popular Monster, Drugs, voices in my head or any song with Hip Hop beats section in a Setlist. I think people would be more pissed about that than having the show cancel.
Thank you for this explanation! I have actually wondered about some of my favorite artists when they have a violin or keyboard part/intro/bridge and thought "well it won't sound like that at a live show because they're not going to have a keyboard player or violinist accompanying them on tour for those tiny little bits." I never even thought about those parts being backing tracks! It makes sense now how a band like Orbit Culture or Amon Amarth can sound so much like their albums live!!!!
Glad you jumped in on this, I've been DYING while watching them go at it. Ronnie is actually taking this on better than I would if I were in his position. Yes tracks have gone out mid show and yes bands had to adjust and keep going, but how did the quality of that song/show go? People lose their minds and bash bands when a scream is missed, or a solo sounds different. So you're supposed to walk in to a show knowing, no intros, no outros, back effects, zero time to rehearse an entirely new set, grenade your whole performance as a headliner? Ugh I can type for hours, but props to Ronnie for making the tough decision and telling the TRUTH about why. Also saw FIR in July, one of the best shows I have ever been to. Don't know anyone that has been to a Sebastian BitchBach concert lol.
I have no issues with bands using tracks. At the same time, I can't support a band cancelling as a festival headliner the day before the show because they lost their laptops with their tracks. The festival they signed a contract to play now has to deal with a horde of ticked off ticket buyers. The festival also has no chance to book an adequate replacement with such short notice. That hurts their reputation and can cost them repeat business. It's the band's responsibility to make sure their gear makes it to the next show. It's also the band's responsibility to make sure they have more than one backup for a piece of gear so integral to their show that they would have to consider cancelling if it failed or was lost. Instead of the band dealing with their negligence head on and playing without the tracks and putting their reputation on the line, they decided to save their own reputation at the expense of the festival's. Not cool.
Thanks for the counter, I totally understand and get your point. I had tickets to a concert at a casino for New Year’s Eve and the band canceled on the morning of the show. Its just the artists side versus the fans side. For this one I still gotta stay with FIR. You can always make it up to the venue and fans by doing another gig, maybe a bigger better one, cancelations happen all the time. You can’t un-do a crappy altered shortened show that you made fans pay to see. When you are at such an unbelievably high level of fans, views, and expectations I just don’t think you can serve up anything less than perfect. They only made the mistake of having no backups other than what the crew lost, they’ll never make it again I’m sure. 2 sides to that coin, but for old antique rockers to challenge their talent, creativity and call them not real musicians is petty and low. Numbers speak for themselves there.
@@mattb.2740 what are they supposed to do in your opinion? Play the show anyways without tracks and (possibly) all the infrastructure coming with them? Tracks are not all audible you know? Timecodes controlling lights, videos and even the effect racks of the musicians are also tracks for example. You don't know what else they are using this technology for and if Ronnie says "driving a car without an engine" it sounds like A LOT. You can criticize the lack of backup but a cancellation was probably the best and only option. Just for perspective: what would you do if half the band called in sick on the day of the show? Let's say drummer, one guitar player and Ronnie himself have covid or whatever. How is that show supposed to work in that scenario? It doesn't. Things happen and shows get cancelled. It is called "live" for a reason you know? 😉
I saw Cold years ago. It was probably my 3rd time seeing them. They played a series of smaller shows but one place (my show) was so small, they couldn't fit all their equipment in and set up. They gave us an acoustic set (unpracticed) instead and Scooter kept apologizing but it, IMO (and my friends) was one of the best shows of theirs and a great experience others on that same tour didn't get to see. My drummer was in the air force and got sent over seas while we were at the end of a small tour and the rest of us did the acoustic thing for the last shows too. Not trying to take anything from FIR. I TOTALLY understand. Thats a hard choice to make but you have to do what you feel is best and Ronnie did.
People losing their minds over a solo sounding different is the problem. A whole generation who has been raised to go to concerts to see a perfect reproduction of an album is something we only associate with pop music.
As you said, for a lot of people the term "track" refers solely to audio, be it vocals or instruments. I only learned that there was far more to it from your videos and still have a bit of a hard time associating stuff like lightning with it. A layman like me would file that more under programming, which in turn carries associations like batch or routine. Or maybe it's the fault of Windows Media Player, which IIRC used to label all songs off an imported CD as tracks. :D
Sebastian trying to be relevant...again 🤦♀️ People saying how Falling in Reverse should have just played anyway, and then those same people would be talking about what a shit show it was. Can't win...people just need some common sense. Just saw Epica in concert, can't even imagine how that would have sounded without backing tracks.
I actually like tracks at live shows. All of the times I've heard them, they've improved the show. Intro music, parts from albums that can't simply be replicated on stage, instruments that you'd just need for one song and therefore can't just bring another artist... So I don't mind at all. Sure, lip synching would suck, but I missed that panic so I don't really expect that to happen. A cool story about not using tracks where they were probably planned: In 2007 I saw Ensiferum live in Switzerland and their biggest song at that time was Victory Song. That song definetly needs a track, as a major part of it is instrumentals that are not guitars and it's a pretty long intro section of that. They were touring with Chthonic (from Taiwan, great band, check them out) and one of their members plays the Erhu (oriental two-string violin). So things happened and we got the intro from this Erhu instead of a track, changing the sound of it a lot (the Erhu sounds wery melancholic and sad), but also making it really, really great!
It blows my mind that me, a person who just loves music and isn't a musician at all, knows how prevalent tracks are, but a musician that has been playing shows longer than I've been alive doesn't know this
Sebastian Bach was part of an 80s hair band called Skid Row. If you listen to their music, they never used any type of backing tracks. Musically, it was simpler and less complex sounding. There big hit were "I Remember You" and "18 and Life". They were around during the Milli Vanilli lip syncing scandal, which for those who didn't use baking tracks they think they are the samething they aren't. In comparison, Skid Rowe came out in 1989, Guns N Roses in 1985 used backing tracks. Def Leppard never used backing tracks until their drummer was in a car accident and lost his arm. Starting in 1984 when they were on tour they were using backing tracks to make their sound more stronger and more robust than what it was but if you also compare the music to before the accident and after you can also see how their sound changed as a whole. But Skid Rowe were purists and there's nothing wrong with that but not understanding how technology works is kind of unexcusable. Without backing tracks Queen would have never of been able to perform "Bohemian Rhapsody" live, there are about 180 vocal dubs in that song. Extremely impressive, for the day and by today's standards as well.
@@latentsea How is it a cop out? The bands are still playing live? They are not talking about tracks REPLACING what the band is playing or singing, they are click tracks, added orchestra's, time changes, effects changes etc. How is it sneaky bullshit? Or somehow a guitarist changing i=his own effct make sit REAL or some bullshit. Man people are weird.....
@@suffersystemstudios I agree with you. So many bands use backing tracks live and the concert goers never know. Do people think Metallica dragged a little kid around to recite the Lord's Prayer in "Enter Sandman"? To me it's an insane argument. To me backing tracks & backing vocals only add to the overall sound of a band in concert. A lot of lead singers harmonize with themselves in studio and layer their voices so while holding a note, a word or a line is quickly said you can hear it on the album. I automatically thought of Amy Lee of Evanescence and the song "All of Me" just listening to the song you can hear her harmonizing and layering her vocals. She's a brilliant singer with a fantastic voice and she show cases it beautifully. Linkin Park Chester and Mike were masterminds all brought to you live with backing tracks and their live show was phenomenal.
@@BeachDreamere It really blows my mind how this blew up as big as it did and how much of a big deal people are making it into. I mean In could understand if it was still the 80's and this was Milli Vanilli, but most every single band using them is not using them for that purpose. backing tracks do not mean lip syncing any more, and really hasn't for a long time, if it ever truly was in the first place. NIN, Ministry, Rammstein, Queen, etc etc etc all use them. What's next, people goign to start freaking out when they realize bands are not using every single one of the 20 guitar cabinets on stage and they are actually empty cabs? Oh NOES!!!
@@suffersystemstudios I'm calling myself out, I'm 53, a child of the 80s and was there for the Milli Vanilli incident. I'm a music junkie and love all kinds of music and I understand the difference between lip syncing, backing tracks and backing tracks with back vocals. I'm not a musician, I work with computers. Backing tracks were taking place in the 70s with Deep Purple, CCR, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Elton John just to name a few. GNR has always used them and they started in 1985, at 15 they blew my mind. Van Halen used them. FIR is a great band and put out some great music. Just because I'm 53 doesn't mean I love under a rock and don't appreciate music as a whole, including today's music. Like everyone, I have my favorites. But this blowing up like this, is just mind blowing. The comments here, some are so laughable. Reading some of Ronnie Radke's responses have been hysterical especially the ones showing Sebastian Bach hypocrisy and Skid Row's obvious use of backing tracks. That man will never admit it and it's completely unbelievable. I wish people would educate themselves.
I like symphonic death/black metal bands that record albums with full orchestras. I thing it would be impossible for them to tour live without backing tracks, since I do not think that touring with a full orchestra is really possible.
*I understand both sides of the argument here. Old school is like "WTF? We managed our whole careers without this crap and you have to cancel your show?!" I think the point about "real bands", Aerosmith, etc.. was that even if those bands use backing tracks too, if something went wrong, they could still manage to put on a show without it. They wouldn't just cancel as that being the only solution. Old school (Sebastian) feels like new school (Ronnie) relies so much on studio and digital effects that a lot of their sound comes from technology itself instead of actual talent. I think that was Sebastian's argument and why he was focusing on vocals and all that. Todays bands rely heavily on technology for just about every song and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you're going to rely so heavily on back tracks to the point that without them you can't perform... then you might want to start having a plan B and C in place for it.*
Saw this happen to jelly roll during a rock on the range set. It was raining, lost power, killed their laptop. They couldn't play live. they stood on stage drinking during their set to kill time.
Bands that use a lot of tech should really always have "no tech" version of their set. I've played shows where the laptop tech all died mid set and it was fucking embarrassing. We switched things up a bit after that and learned stripped down versions of most of our existing set. We played half the songs synced to automation (clicks+samples) and the other half freetime. As is "sods law" once we had backup and stripped down versions of songs the gear never failed, but it did once and that was a life changing miserable gig where we felt like fakes. Shit was not cash.
The conversation shifted from using tracks to where it should have gone is why did they have to cancel. You said that during shows, many times the tracks have gone out. Did the show suddenly stop and everyone leave, or did they continue and just used the live vox and instruments? Did Freddie sing that the show had to end because their harmonization went out? In the immortal words of Bill O'Reilly, "F it! We'll do it live!"
Yeah but it's the difference is they are mid show. Last thing you wanna do is give an audience a bad representation or at least a lesser representation of their live shows than normal
@@prodigalbrock yea I was gonna say, mid show, you kinda gotta keep rolling, but if your whole show is missing in the form of their laptops, they won't want to perform a barebones show that is just super bland and boring.
@@thatguy_5240 Well, they COULD ask the audience if they want to see a stripped down version (kinda what Nightwish did back in the day in Denver). But I understand it can be *very* difficult since you've only practiced with the tracks (and effects etc.), so it could be a total disaster too (I'm not sure if NW would have done it without their tracks... a singer that in realty was already on her way out was another thing 😂)
@@prodigalbrock One time I saw King Diamond in NYC. Before his set, he came out and said he wasn't feeling well and that he couldn't do his falsetto. (They're normally harmonized by a female backup singer.) He went on to state that if anyone wanted to leave, they could for a full refund. Everyone stayed. He still killed. Be a professional. Find a way around the issue.
@@Garbox80 I forget what festival it was, but Manowar pulled out and Sabaton agreed to do double duty. They played another full set, but Joakim had messed up his voice. Everyone was treated to a one-off set with Tommy handling vox. Be a professional. Find a way around.
In this case I'm siding with ronnie. Just a few weeks ago I saw Heaven Shall Burn letting the crowd chant Blind Guardians Valhalla because their Introtracks couldn't play. And I dont think Falling in Reverse had an easy decision with canceling that show. Can we please all go back to listening to music and enjoying shows without getting offended by everything and fight what real music is or who is bigger, better and whatever. Just listen to what you like. Thanks for sharing that video, have a nice day Tank and stay safe 😁
Back in the 90s I've been at a Manowar show in vienna. The audience wanted a "Zugabe" (I think it's encore in english). The band never came back onstage, but played a tape. I was furious. So much for "real oldschool metalbands". Today I don't think I would enjoy bands like tool or lorna shore live without tracks.
I was a stage hand (and sometimes audio engineer) in Germany at a bunch of conventions with live music acts from Japan. 20 years ago, one of those bands was not able to bring their drummer, so our sound engineer got a mini disc player from the band with all the drum tracks on it. Some of the idol bands were just singing and the music had to come from tracks. Other bands brought synth parts and backing vocals on tracks. But I've never seen full playback at these events, though i have seen half playback of the vocals (you can hear the vocals at 25% volume when the singer is not singing) on rare occasions (like when the singer is so drunk, he does not remember all the lyrics or when the song is so new, that the singer is not fully sure of himself yet).
As long as it’s not a Milli Vanilli situation I don’t care if a band uses tracks. What I’m concerned about is why don’t they have backups to prevent having to cancel.
Even with data backups it would have been impossible to get new laptops setup in time. These computers take days for computer and musical engineers to setup. It's not like loosing the data on your laptop and hitting restore and a little while later, there's your stuff. But even with those backups and restores, something inevitably goes wrong and most people end up with something missing. Also the replacement laptops have to be very robust, they look like regular laptops but there's a lot more power in those laptops then your regular laptop has and even more so than a gamers laptop even has. Then there's the amount of software that has to be loaded onto those laptops and the data as a whole. They had a 24 hour window, there is no way it could have happened.
This Video was needed. Thank you!! It's simple, it's evolution. Studio tracks can have all the bells and whistles a band wants to express an emotion, people get used to hearing certain elements and in concert it's often difficult to duplicate. Some of the Old Schoolers are tech resistant, but, again, its evolution and the quality of the show is what the bands are striving for.
I also think the bigger issue is you cancel a show because your tracks go down. So the band absolutely cannot play songs without all of those things in tracks. I mean could they not play some songs without all of the tracks?
No, they couldn't. Most of FiR set is their newer songs and most of them have rap verses or\and a lot of synths and effects, it's physically impossible to play those songs without tracks. And it's not bad at all. It's just a matter of genre and style and it makes absolutely no sense to call the band "fake" or "untalented", especially when they have Luke Holland on drums.
@@its_not_fair9866 Fair enough, I don't listen to FIR as its not my cup of tea. Who cares what others really have to say at the end of the day, everyone is just bitching about opinions. This is why social media has ruined society, everyone is just trying to convince someone else that their opinion is the only correct one. If I was in the band I would have a few back up songs we could play without tracks because when people pay money to see a show they should get to see one and I would respect them for doing so if I bought a ticket to see them. But like I said this is my opinion and I am just some dude on the internet who is a music fan.
And another reason they couldn't just change the set list is the fact, they only had one day for rehearsal. Even though the songs are their own, if you haven't played a song in a while you get rusty on it and one day might not be enough to get all the songs back into memory, especially if you have to perform it as a band and you also have a certain stage show planned for the songs. And I don't know about Falling in Reverse, but they might have had band member changes or touring members only, who don't know the full catalog.
@@Wollestar I can understand what you posted but, most bands rehearse before tour, while rehearsing you can have, say a few songs you could do without all of the production and give the fans something in case something like this happens. I am sure if Ronnie would have asked the crowd, hey our laptops are screwed and we can't perform a full set today but how about a few songs,? I am sure the fans would have been thrilled. I don't blame them nor am I mad about it in anyway, I am just stating things that could be done. As a programmer I can tell you laptops have many failure points and I would not rely on laptops to always work.
@@randyblankenship8781 bands don’t offhandedly remember every song they made and it’s not like they had a full set list of things that don’t require tracks (of which FiR might have like maybe a handful). I’m going to take Ronnie’s word for it that the show is just fucked instead of just throw random assumptions and guesses of how he’s wrong.
I have no problem with using backing tracks but I do have a problem with canceling the show because you don't have your laptops. You are supposed to be musicians, whatever happened to the mantra, the show must go on? I don't care if this doesn't sound exactly like the album, that's why I'm there to see a live show. I expected not to sound like the album.
"The show must go on" is good and all, but whether a band can let the show go on or not depends on the music they play. An "oldschool" Metal Band, sure, they can play with or without their backing tracks. it's gonna sound different, maybe slightly worse than usual, but it won't ruin anything. A Band like Falling in Reverse... that's a different Story. The amount of digital effects, distortion and just electro sounds they use make it impossible to perform without their tracks. It's like missing half their instruments. I still think Falling in Reverse is at blame here though. There are a miriad of technical solutions for a safe backup they could have used and they went with "have a second laptop that's being transportet together with the first one so whatever happens to one, happens to both.". A simple offsite Cloud backup and a medium sized internet connection could have saved this.
@@timokampwerth1996 Yeah I understand that a band like them uses a lot more technology than an old school metal band. But like you said I put the blame on them for not having a back up plan
Also Tank was adamant that the band are great musicians and their laptop doesn’t dominate the performance-- therefore no excuse. Either you’re great musicians and can salvage a performance or you’re a slave to the laptop and maybe not as great as people claim,
@@czarevich So basically what you're saying is that Metallica can salvage a show with the Basist stuck in traffic because they are good? The base doesn't dominate most of their songs, so they can just play those and be fine, right? FiR cancelled because the backlash of a mediocre performance would have been far worse. You can be a great musician AND rely on Backing tracks. Those are by no means mutually exclusive.
I'm a Gen X'er and I understand that music evolves. I'm and old rock chick but love FIR. Ronnie doesn't get enough credit for the amazing things he does. I'm Not A Vampire revamped and The Drug In Me Is reimagined are phenomenal both visually and vocally.
Seen Fit For An Autopsy last month. They clearly used backing tracks (especially for one of my favorite songs "Higher Level of Hate") throughout their set but they KILLED IT live. Joe's voice sounded just like the album; the rest of the guys just crushed it as well. One of the best shows I've ever been to, honestly 🖤
I was so happy to find this. I honestly think that so many people sounding off about not needing laptops or that they shouldn't need them are people who either A) have never listened to most newer bands and B) have not been to a live show at any level. After all, i have seen even regional bands use tracks for various things. When I saw Journey and Foreigner back in mid 2000 and they had backing tracks. We have just hit a point where everyone is about making themselves look smart. Even if they are wrong, they can't be wrong. And they have all the answers on all of the topics. Thank you for being the voice of reason in this and sharing your knowledge and experience.
I think the whole "backing-track & laptop drama" depends always on the band and style. Im pretty sure Bands like Bring me the Horizon needs their laptop and backing tracks. But Bands like Cannibal Corpse will never need them I guess lol. And also dont forget: so many bands have digital amps and everything. So its not just "backing tracks". Often its light changes, patch changes, metronome, etc. When everything is gone, I can understand that it is a nightmare to switch ur whole setup, learn ur patch changes and reprogram everything on the fly.
Bands like Epica, Nightwish, Dragonforce, etc need them. Heck an band that uses keyboards but has no live keyboard player needs them. Sabaton, Seven Spires, Starkill, Arch Enemy, etc.
Dave Mustaine of Metallica is 100% against backing tracks and has stated it numerous times so it doesn't surprise me that Cannibal Corpse doesn't use them either. Dave Mustaine has stated that he doesn't mind them being used like for the amps and equipment but not for the singing or the musicians. When they play live bring in musicians like for the background vocals and maybe an extra guitarist or two to bring more sound to the music like it has when you listen to it on the album. Sebastian Bach from Skid Row is of this mindset as well. But this is music and it's not 1 way or the highway. If Queen used technically to their advantage, then anyone can. Without backing tracks Queen would not have been able to perform "Bohemian Rhapsody" live, there are about 180 vocal dubs to make 4 men sound like a choir of 40. I've been to many concerts both with and without backing tracks and I love them all. Let the music free!
There is nothing more annoying than thr misuse of the term “boomer”. The only people who are “boomers” were born to the WWII generation. The people of Sebastian Bach’s generation are GENERATION X.
Was fortunate to see Falling in Reverse this summer on the Rockzilla tour - they put on a great show! I'm sure they want all their fans to have the best experience.
Amen! IMO it comes down to this… if this bothers someone, don’t go, don’t buy a ticket. If someone has no problem, great. But, it isn’t your job to stop people from going to shows because you don’t like what is happening. Stop worrying so much about what other people enjoy.
I feel like you miss the point. All the old bands use backing tracks. But if they didn’t have them they would still play the show. I think that’s the point.
It’s a good point to make (which I even asked about), but during this entire argument, everyone was screaming about the use of backing tracks in general. I mean, Eddie Trunk literally listed off “real rock bands” that don’t use tracks, not realizing that they use tracks.
The disconnect is definitely in the idea of what the tracks are, as you mentioned. They generally aren't the vocals or guitars/bass or drums. Can understand people being miffed if maybe only a percentage of the live performance was actually live. At a certain point it could seem like to concert goers that they are pretty much just listening to an album being played in a live setting. But by in large that is not the case. I know the Chevelle mentioned that they do not use backing tracks and do not include anything in their album tracks that they cannot do live. Have no problem with that if that is their thing..and of course that is just one example. This was actually a conversation for this band as we started adding programmed tracks to our songs. We discussed whether or not people seeing us live would have an issue with it. Even if we included a computer running a DAW and added a member to play the parts that are backing on a midi keyboard...many of the tracks are multilayered using several virtual instruments and would require more than two hands playing two controllers. Just not very possible logistically. So we could play without the tracks live but the experience wouldn't be the same. I can't imagine Electric Callboy without tracks...use of song intros and segues. And we all know that Kevin can play everything but do we want him tied to keyboard (even though he is playing one in the Fuck Boi video) ? Fully back you on this one Tank! The 'argument' here isn't even valid because one side's stance is way off-base.
This is like "my amp isn't turning on" and you have no backups. The disconnect is people think when you use tracks, you aren't playing for real and giving a true live show. Think like a MTV video where you aren't playing. Perfect example is the movie Airheads when they get their chance to perform on stage but they aren't plugged in and they want them to fake it. That's what people think of when you say they are using tracks. That said, I agree with Wolfgang Van Halen when he said in an interview, "you should be able to play your shit". If you write it and it's on the album you should know how to play it, that's not debatable for me. Extra fluff like intro noises and whatnot doesn't matter to me, the actual ability to play the instruments and sing is what does.
Dude Iron maiden and Metallica, 2 of the biggest touring bands in metal, use tracks, Sebastián is such a child sometimes, great video tank, keep em coming 🤘
Honestly there's a LOT of reasons to really, honestly dislike Ronnie Radke, and I do really dislike him he's an absolute clown, but this seems a weird argument. I can kind of see both sides, the thought of backing tracks in an actual band with instruments strikes me as very weird and should be unnecessary, but if that's how they do it who cares. I will say that cancelling a performance over it is a bit of a bitch move, there would have been people who spent money to see them and they were owed a show.
The only thing I didn’t like about what Ronnie did was call out the crew. I felt like that threw them under a bus. But one of my favorite bands Periphery depends on laptops for the sound and light for their concerts. Would anyone accuse them of faking it? No. They still play their instruments. Touring is expensive; bands have to cut overhead. Laptops help them. Problem solved. The same people who bitch about bands using laptops are the same ones who wouldn’t purchase a ticket to see them perform in the first place.
No it doesn't bother me at all. The band is still performing and most of the music is still coming from their instruments. Also I haven't seen any lip-synching. This whole argument against tracks is actually disrespectful to the hundreds of people who put so much work into live performances.
It is so amazing to watch a group of folks who literally grew up watching the development of this astonishing technology get so bumfuzzled by it. Must be nice to to be so insulated from the world.
The use of tracks doesn’t bother me per se, but when the band is paralyzed, unable to perform without them, and cancels their show, that’s a problem. Those guys could have borrowed some gear and put on a unique, stripped down set that their fans would have loved. They took the easy way out.
Tbh, both vocalists are super talented, but both have really big egos that are a real turn-off. Sebastian is too loud at times and Ronnie Radke treats anyone who doesn’t agree with him including fans like absolute shit. Both need to remember where they came from and get off their high pedestals
Hope you read this Tank!!! I'm a dad of 3 little ones so it's been probably nearing a decade since I've been able to go to a show/festival/concert whatever you prefer to call them and one thing I have always said is when you are going to an event you are going for entertainment and if there is something that makes that entertainment more enjoyable, sound better, look better, all that good stuff, then use it. The fans want the best time of there lives when they go to a show and there is nothing wrong with giving the fans the most you can give.....This really seems like a whole my generation was better than yours because we had it "harder" or "we didn't need all that technology". If you have a "tool" that makes something work better or makes your product better....then why would you not use it? I get being stuck in "your ways" but why should other musicians have to do things exactly the way "you do or did" in order for it to be "real". “Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.” ― Benjamin Franklin
Why do Millennials call anyone older than them "boomers". Bach is Gen X. I think there is a major difference in thought process about a concert and the point of it - Gen X and older don't want the music to sound exactly like it is off the album since we can just stay at home and here that. Freddie Mercury even made a comment about this in his time. We want the energy, we want that raw feeling. I think the younger generation cares more about seeing the performing as evidence by everyone viewing the show through their phones and hearing people talk when I watch live shows filmed with phones on RUclips. I think the younger generation cares more about saying they were there than actually being there - as in being in the moment.
As far as backing tracks are concerned, if a band is using them for these reasons listed below, I have no problem: - Orchestral/symphonic sections that cannot be duplicated (like Nightwish and Epica does for example) - Choirs (Nightwish, Epica, and many other symphonic metal acts do this as well) - Certain “interlude” type tapes (like Metallica does for certain songs that start off like like “Damage, Inc.”, “Fight Fire with Fire”, “Blackened”, etc. for instance or Queen for “Bohemian Rhapsody”) - Synth parts where a keyboard player isn’t present (Sabaton and Static-X comes to mind) If it’s for reasons where you have a vocal track playing in the background or additional guitar parts or anything like that while the music is still playing (e.g. Bring Me the Horizon, Mötley Crüe), that I find lame. It makes live shows feel disingenuous/unnatural if you have to heavily rely on tracks instead of not having an additional rhythm guitarist or not having any other band member sing backing vocals.
Sounds more like pretentious music snobbery tbh. I mean why draw the line at backup vocalists or rhythm guitars? Your argument could be applied the things you listed. Why not go and find a choir, orchestra, or learn to play the interlude parts instead of disingenuously and unnaturally replacing them with tracks? And what about keyboards should make them exempt from these rules? This is an instrument just a legitimate as a guitar or anything else yet you think it's okay to replace them with a track... but not a rhythm guitar or backup vocals? Weird, that doesn't make sense. Have you ever seen a solo artist that uses tracks for the entire song except the instrument they play and their vocals? You must really hate them!
Many bands just can’t afford to have another musician on tour. If you have one guitarist you need backup tracks for rhythm parts in some songs. I do value it when a band can keep going when their backing track system fails, but this does depend on the type of band and the specific songs.
everything i do uses tracks (drum programming/samples, synthesizers/sound effects, sometimes guitar tracks i play the opposite parts to, bass tracks, etc.) and if my method for it goes down, i cannot do em. i've been using a USB drive on a Roland synthesizer since 2011 to do this. i cannot think of one person, let alone 6 people, who could recreate all the various things i do in the recording phase on a stage to an audience without it sounding massively different every single night. the one band that got me interested in technology that got to this point used tape decks as early as 1988, and has had tape deck malfunctions/tape melts in their career before shifting to digital platforms for playback. one of my favorite local bands used an ADAT rig for stuff they recorded at Indigo Ranch. the last band i played in uses a laptop and triggers. HOW is it so hard to understand that technology is pivotal to many groups who started out or grew with it? Hell, I legit hope one day before I turn 50 that I get to do a big tour and witness massive laptop failure mid-show, and replace it with a back-up. I side with Ronnie on this matter. I want a show that delivers how the band wants to deliver. I want to deliver a show that reflects what I do. I want more people to do as they see necessary for their bands, even if it's with a giant rig that uses some giant 64+ bus Dante interface. just make the music you want, and do it live how you see it fits that moment. stop getting lost in the fallacies and go kill it on stage for 3+ months every year until you retire.
As someone who's both a musician and works in tech: the only thing that is a little bit inexcusable on the side of Falling in Reverse here is that they don't properly manage backups. If you store all your material on laptops then it's like a 10 dollar a month subscription to iCloud (or equivalent service) to ensure that you have a (near) perfect replica of that machine in the cloud which you can always re-create from.
Yeah, agreed 100%. Any professional band of a certain caliber should have all of these things saved on a desktop at their home base and have identical (or near, maybe their older gear) laptops already loaded-up with these shows and ready to be fedexed or couriered to the show location. I mean, if it’s something that can shut-down a show entirely, it’s a “mission critical” piece of gear, as opposed to something like a guitar that can be got at a music store in whatever city. I’m sure they’ll adjust accordingly, but the blow-back here seems misplaced: the issue isn’t the computers and tracks, it’s that these guys let so much hinge on something irreplaceable when we know things go “missing” on tours all the time.
You make a very good point. It is silly as F. Nonetheless, canceling a show demonstrates way to much relliance on digital tech. A dj sure as hell would need to cancel, but a so called band... one would think they would plow through.
Two of the best shows I've ever seen were Nine Inch Nails and Iron Maiden when they were closing different years for the Soundwave Festival here in Australia. Both were clearly using backing tracks for atmosphere building
Nine Inch Nails‘ set is LOADED with tracks from all of the stuff that Trent programs into their music. And it doesn’t bother me one bit. One of the best shows I’ve ever seen.
@@CecilBrian I should verify with the Maiden. It wasn't tracks they were playing along to it was a bunch of intros to stuff like the Trooper. Granted it's borderline whether they actually count or not
Oh I absolutely believe that bands like Lorna Shore and Nightwish should tour with whole symphony orchestras. Because that was how it was done in the days of Bach - the real one who died 1750. Anyone going by the name of Sebastian Bach today is just a fake and lip synching the original.
Even if the tracks aren't 'audible' there is very often a click track automated midi program changes for various pieces of stage technology and/or lighting so that the full performance is kept in sync, particularly important if using video projections. It's not always about the audio tracks, it can just be a method to enable automation.
I thought the point of a live show was to let the audience have a good time. If having laptops/back tracks help you create a better show, why wouldn't you use it? Edit: I kept watching... 12:40 I like the way you think. 😅
1 question for u, would u have liked to see them play the gig anyway and make the most of it or are u happy with them canelling? I dont mind Fir using tracks even on vocals at occasion. Sometimes its needed. But I would have wanted to see them play anyway. Who cares if its not their best show ever. Love ronnie and gang fyi.
Honestly, it's a tough question. Because they're more than capable of performing, as they're all super talented musicians. But you wouldn't be getting the full experience of their show without some of the backing parts.
late to the party but man this is hilarious. i never thought metal would get tot he ok boomer stage, and here we are. id like to move that discussion by a generation and imagine the "old school" metalheads getting the same treatment for using electric instruments and speakers "what you dont know how to play yourself you need eletric enhancers? pfff you cant be a REAL band cause REAL musiscians dont need eletric amplification. What is that even, cant you play a REAL guitar?"
Well to be honest thats what their audio engineers basically are. Thats why I don't give a pass to no backups at all available cus of X reason. Like no. You're a professional band. If you have nearly an entire day to recover before hand you should be able to get a usable setup going in 24 hours and should have cloud backups for at least a rudimentary setup. People will take a stripped down performance over nothing and wasted PTO.
Tank , could you possibly do a video of a venue set up for a live gig? From empty venue to stage set up and equipment set up. Also maybe some of what tech’s do. Find that really interesting. Thanks and keep up the great work.
What about when a band member leaves the band and they track the entire part? Wondering your opinion on that especially as someone who has worked for a band that's done this.
I mean, look at what happened to Electric Callboy when their members got COVID on tour. They were able to track those parts and still put on a show instead of cancel. Hell, Bloodywood is doing the same thing touring the US right now while Raoul can't perform with them. No issue with that at all.
To be honest, I had no idea that whole bands were using backing tracks during live performances. I’ve seen club musicians using them, but am surprised that they’re also used in bigger venues and acts. Many times tracks are laid down in studios by different musicians than the actual bandmates. So if you go to see a live performance with a backing track, you may not actually be listening to the band’s guitarist or drummer, etc... something like that would kind of be a hybrid performance not an actual live show. There’s no problem with that just as long as the audience knows and there isn’t a lot of fakery going on. Say what you want about the old-school metalheads but today, artists often can barely sing their own lines. They bring other people in and then take credit for the vocal. In the 60s and 70s, even into the 80s, those artists sang all their lines and were perfectly in tune, no auto tune. And they recorded on tape. I believe these digital tools are great but there’s no comparison to the level of skill and talent that you’d find a few decades back.
@@TankTheTech Even Floor Jansen adds backing vocals of herself to the NW songs and if there has ever been someone who can sing brilliantly without backing vocals it’s definitely her. And can you imagine Nightwish without any symphonic backing tracks?!?
@@TankTheTech Linkin Park used backing tracks, Queen used backing tracks, Guns N Roses used backing tracks. I just don't think people realize what goes into live shows or what happens in the engineering booth while the songs are being created. So many vocalist harmonize with themselves, that's on the backing tracks.
What about Queen? Guns N Roses? The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Who, David Bowie, Billy Joel, CCR and Elton John all used backing tracks people just didn't realize it.
Idk man, seen them at louder than life last weekend, sounded like he was using backing vocal tracks. His screams and rapping sounded live but a lot of singing parts were tracked and you could tell when his growls came back in. Wasn't impressed
I don't think Sebastian cares about the laptop thing. Ronnie is just a shady dude who makes horrible music and Sebastian saw a chance to take him down. That's how I see it anyway
I'm all for backingtracks. I remember some of the old bands often would play a 4 minut song in 3,20 minutes. They would just 'speed run' through their set list cause they were already tired of playing the same song again and again. And without the backingtrack, there was nothing that kept the tempo down.
It always feels so weird watching people yell at each other when I like all their music... I’m young but kinda slow so I don’t understand a lot of this stuff, so I can kinda see some older performers not getting it either. I thought using backing tracks meant lipsyncing until just a few years ago, it hadn’t ocurred to me that it meant anything else. Anyway, Ron’s right here, I just wish he didn’t throw the crew under the bus like that, that was kinda meeeh. Also I may have missed something, but did they not have back ups they could use? Genuine question.
I mean, people were angry af that The Weeknd canceled mid-show because his VOICE went out. Like he literally couldn’t sing and people were pissed at him. He came out to face 70k people and told them what happened, which I respect him so much for. He was in tears walking off the stage. He promised them refunds and a new show. They all got refunds and TWO new shows to close out his tour. People still wanted refunds for food, beer, travel expenses, and MERCH which is the stupidest one. Many of them said he should just lip sync. Which he would never do, therefore they weren’t set up for something like that. Just using this as an example of how ridiculous and demanding fans can be of these artists, as if they aren’t human and shit doesn’t happen. I will say that it doesn’t help that Ronnie has had to cancel quite a few shows this tour. But again, after three years of not playing live because of the pandemic, I’m giving all these artists a lot more room to get back into the groove of things before I become super critical.
Some people are only happy if they're complaining
@@samanthar1214 Facts. What a sad existence.
The Weekend 🤣🤣🤣😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@sebastianrawk Why are you laughing so weirdly at The Weeknd?
@@SparkimusPrime because they're just as much of a joke as Falling in Reverse.
I was using backing and click tracks 8 years ago in church bands because no, we didn't have a full orchestra but it sounded like we did. None of the guitars, drums, or vocals were in the tracks.
It helped us practice and sound more professional because that's what they wanted. It wasn't a cop-out, it actually made us sound better.
It also made it painfully obvious when we weren't on beat.
That's also what a lot of the oldschool bands and artists don't recognize: playing consistently to a click track is way, way harder. Bands like Polyphia wouldn't be able to perform without them.
The funniest part is a lot of big time musicians would also argue that playing to a click track is way harder than not.
@@_philipp__ seems like playing on tempo on your own, without a click track, would be harder.
@@snooginsivmf Musicians naturally drag or rush tempo. Lots of factors at play. Nerves, room temp, how you’re feeling that day can all affect how you perform. Click tracks keep you honest. That’s why when I hear a good drummer that naturally keeps perfect time (rare) I say “that guy is a metronome”. Even if a band isn’t using tracks, you can bet your ass the drummer probably has a click in his ear.
@@elliscody06 I get that. The metal band I used to play with we changed tempo alot in our style. It helped hide slowing and speeding up. When i play with the church tho, the drummer has a click track. In church we rotate musicians and songs so the click helps there vs in the metal band we had a set of songs and a solid line up.
When I pay for a concert I just want a great sounding show. If a band needs/wants backing tracks to best reproduce their music in a live setting I’m all for it.
I have no problem with bands using tracks. But, they should be able to play some of their stuff without it. Instead of cancelling all together. And just explained to the crowd.
Bruh especially in rock and metal. Backing tracks should be played by the band
@Tan Jenner The issue is it's more than just backing tracks. It's their preset lighting, their preset pitch shifts, their musical and vocal effect shifts, screen shows, etc... You can't just pull a crew out of nowhere to do all that for you last minute so you sound like you should.
"Back in my day" blah blah blah. The music industry and technology have alwayz been at odds, going back to the invention of the CD. Napster was an even bigger shock that the industry STILL hasn't figured out. Embrace tech, or become obsolete, like BAS 🦇🕷🕸🤘 -J.s.
@@scottbulinski5450 And if a band has electronic parts like Linkin Park, Bad Omens, Bring me the Horizon, etc? Can’t replicate synths or 808’s live.
Exactly.
There was another show FIR did recently where the backing track for Popular Monster wasn't working, so the guitar players and the bassist began singing the synthesizer/bass parts acapella while Ronnie rapped. Then they got the track to work, so they started all over again. It was pretty funny.
Thank you for clarifying this. I’m ‘old school’ & was really disappointed in Ronnie (who I think is awesome btw) but now I understand that tracks & lip syncing are completely different. And why they cancelled. Cheers Tank!
I'm old school as well but was in a band for a while in my younger days. "Tracks" are a normal part of live music. Even Bach uses them. He is just such a dumbass that he cant understand the concept. He is just being a bully and Ronnie isnt putting up with it. Falling in Reverse isnt my thing but I completely understand why he would defend his band from that fuckass. I never hear anything good about Bach anymore. He needs to stand up from his lawn chair, go inside and quit trying to gatekeep metal. No kids are on his lawn and he is pissed about it.
People should not jump to conclusions and follow some nitwit screamers like a Sebastian Bach ( how can you take a dude with that name serious?) This is typical American and does not happen in Europe. I am an old skool banger too and very aware we, fans, are more and more demanding and backing tracks are normal these days. I hardly know bands who don't use them. Negative bs like this is so NOT metal.
@@monicacarolina6480 I wanted to defend him and say it's his parents fault and a normal German name, but that's a stage name? Why would he do that?? Delusions of grandeur 😂
At least his normal name is also German and nature related - and hard for US Americans to pronounce.
Even Queen used "Backing Tracks" in the 1970s when they played Bohemian Rhapsody in the "Opera Section".
They probably used tape back then. If they had played that section live, they would have needed to tour with a full choir just to perform for a few minutes.
14 years ago I saw Manowar perform a record breaking 5 hour show in my country. It was all kinds of awesome, but there were a lot of technical problems - one of them was when the backing track with Orson Welles' voice that they used for "Defender" didn't start on time for some reason, so they had to stop and start playing the song from the beginning.
I said it under your previous video covering this matter, and I'll say it again - people who complain about backing tracks often have no idea what they're talking about. No, Metallica don't bring a child actor on stage for "Enter Sandman". No, Manowar can't raise Orson Welles from the dead for "Defender" or "Dark Avenger". (Also, during their tour in 2019, Manowar had a keyboardist for their shows in Europe, but he couldn't go to Mexico, so they used a backing track for his parts. Just mentioning.) No, epic power metal bands don't bring full orchestras in the clubs they perform in. No, Iron Maiden don't bring a voice actor on stage to read that passage from The Book of Revelations in the beginning of "The Number of the Beast". And so on. If you hear something that is not on stage, it is likely a backing track - and there is nothing wrong with this, as long as the backing track isn't there to replace the performance.
Dave mustaine from Metallica was dead set against backing vocals or backing of any kind and still is he's okay if they're used like for the amps and the equipment but not for vocals and music. For the most part Metallica does bring back up singers and extra musicians to play in the background but you're absolutely correct I don't think they could have done Master of Puppets as a whole without backing tracks. But also be fair, I have no idea how the other members of Metallica feel about backing tracks I don't know if they've ever been as vocal about them as Dave was I can't recall Lars or James saying anything.
I mean, I'm a huge Devin Townsend fan, and as talented as he is, he couldn't tour without either using backing tracks or radically rearranging his songs. It's kind of what happens when you've got about 20 things going on at the same time in a song.
@@BeachDreamere No one says Dave Mustaine from Metallica. MEGADEATH has been around since 1983 that is 40 years. Not as commercially successful as Metallica but in the Metal community they are top tier.
And Powerwolf. Their bass is a backing track, because they have no bass player. One of the guitarists plays the bass on their recordings and also pre records his bass for the live shows. He just prefers to play the guitar for the effect and sound of another live guitar. Not to mention the orchestra and chorus backing tracks they have too.
@@corythompson8508 I thought it was a little weird as well but it isn't like he just pulled Mustaine being in Metallica out of his ass as he was a founding member. I don't know anyone else who has phrased it that way before, though lol
I can't ever imagine Nightwish performing The Greatest Show on Earth without time-coded fireworks in key moments. Mate... The Big Bang! The wow factor! Why the hell not!? I hope there's no one out there trying to make a claim that Nightwish members don't know their musicianship because of this.
Just imagine bands like EPICA, Nightwish, Wintersun or other death metal/symphonic metal bands without backing tracks playing live will be almost impossible. Judas Priest use backing trakcs to...
To be fair I could imagine Tuomas growing more limbs to play extra keyboards if that happened.
@@thatonedude675 I bet you are right 😂
Queen "Bohemian Rhapsody" about 180 vocal dubs, impossible to perform without backing tracks.
You are naming the exception of bands with multi layered musical pieces. Most bands don't have that so it's a null point.
@@Octavian2 wow golly gee there sure are a lot of bands that do that just for you to call them exceptions.
The Milli Vanilli incident really changed a lot of things. Lip syncing is like cheating to me. But backing tracks has never bothered me because no one is pretending the main part of the song. What Im most impressed with is the sound people that mix live playing and backing tracks together to sound perfect.
As a pure consumer of music (or non-musician) I really don't care how a live show becomes the awesome experience that I love to have. If they use tracks or whatever to get a crowd having fun with them then that's how it is. And if a band says that they can't produce a certain feeling at their live shows without certain equipment and feeling themselves something it's missing, then I think it's okay to say "nope, can't do it". Sure, it's bad for me, since I don't get my concert at this specific day, but I rather wait for another time to see the bands I want to see with their best performance possible.
Modern concerts are way beyond just instruments and amplifiers. In my opinion concerts are more a place for a musical experience that includes more than just the music itself (lights, the band interacting with the crowd etc). If I just want "the music" I can listen to that at home. But at a concert/show I want to experience more than that.
I want to experience mosh pit. Dont really care about lights etc
If the technology is necessary to replace it exactly like the album you don't really even need the band, just play a laptop and a light show like a rave and have at it. The subtle differences a band playing live without a click or backing tracks to replicate the exact sound of the album is why I play and watch bands . I never want to pay to see Stadium shows ever again.
@@bassicly4250 I do get where you're coming from - would it be fair to guess that you especially like acoustic tours from bands? What I don't think is that most bands try to 'exactly replicate' their studio versions of the tracks, but certain elements that are maybe kinda iconic to their songs. For example AC/DC does bring their "bell" sometimes with them, but when they start playling "Hell's Bells", that bell doesn't do the sound. Or take maybe M.I.A. with "Paper planes" and the cashier box sound that's a central element of the song. Or think of Eminem with "Stan" - that rain sound is iconic and not that easily replicated in an analog way.
Regarding the stadium shows I'd like to know more of what you don't like about them. 'Just' the higher chance of back/click tracks or is there more to it that bothers you?
@@holzbruch296 simply the fact that they "can't" play a show without the laptop.
Ronnie is a perfectionist and prefers to skip a show if something doesn't fit. He has proven often enough that he is a good singer and has a great and talented band behind him. I have absolutely no problem with a band using backing tracks. Greetings from Germany :)
endlich normale leute
I think of it this way: does anyone actually think Lorna Shore or Shadow of Intent travel with an orchestra and a choir? Of course not! So why the hell does anyone think a modern band can put on a show without these backing tracks? Think of all the electronic effects that go into Falling in Reverse songs...how do these people think FIR would make a live show work without this?
I second that. People (ESPECIALLY music boomers) ought to understand that that's how the biz runs nowadays. You CANNOT play music without backing tracks, laptops and the whole shenanigans to HELP the band doing what they need to do.
Do those band's songs fall apart and become unlistenable without the backing tracks, though? Most good songs can be arranged differently and still sound great. Did Johnny Cash's cover of "Hurt" suck because it didn't have all the electronic effects Reznor used? I don't have an issue with bands using tracks, but when you're cancelling shows because you don't have access to them, it makes it look like you're using them as a crutch instead of a tool.
@@mattb.2740 I got your point, but I still disagree with it. Bands can work without all those backing tracks, but depending on what kind of a concert a band wants to show, the kind of experience the band wants their audience to feel, the backing tracks are a must have. The example you gave, "Hurt", works really good as an simple acoustic version. But a song like "Zombified", for example, must have the backing tracks to fulfill the ambience the song originally has. It's not just an issue of "is this band capable enough to play really good without any backing tracks?", it's more of "how this song would sound and how the crowd would feel if we play the same song without all that ambience we added on studio version?".
@@mattb.2740 I imagine if they had time to rehearse WITHOUT the backing tracks they could most def pull it off, but when they had zero time to practice the songs without them, as I imagine they'd have to rearrange some of them, then yes I understand cancelling the show. I honestly don't even know if I have heard a song by these guys, but realistically I agree with what they did and having to cancel. That being said how stupid to have both the main and back up laptops in the same place lol
@@suffersystemstudios How the band sounds? You're not missing much. His voice reminds me of Britney Spears.🤢😆
I saw Falling in Reverse live at Inkcarceration earlier this year and genuinely had fun listening to them. I think they could have still put on a good show without the computers, but they probably wouldn't have been satisfied with the performance, and if the band isn't happy nobody will be happy.
So basically you're saying without the laptops they wouldn't be able to put on a decent show. That's fucking pathetic.
@@sebastianrawk I literally said "they could have put on a good show without the computers" where did you get that I said they wouldn't put on a decent show?
@@sebastianrawk I believe you are a musician, try to replicate one of those last 3 songs Falling in reverse did.
I believe you can’t. Why? Try it.
Those songs are performable live in a decent form, but you need preparation and lots of extra gear to do it. There’s no way they could have get all the gear needed on time. Not mentioning a shit load of more Roadies for lighting and pyros at the right time… moving platforms etc…
@@PunGodFromOhio Because you just suggested they possibly wouldn't have been happy with this rhetorical performance without a laptop.
The biggest issue is the lack of data backup. Cancelation for missing equipment is fair, but certain bands entire live show can be completely destroyed if important part of their equipment went missing. Data loss is annoying but also avoidable. Look at Einstürzende Neubauten, they have very unique self made instruments, if those were ever stolen, the can't play certain songs live.
That's what happened to Sonic Youth when a bunch of their gear was stolen. They had songs they couldn't ever play again without that gear.
@@brinepacer do you happen to know what songs? I only just got into that band slightly recently
@@terogates1 no idea, it was 20+ years ago.
thats why im actually hesitant to believe this? no backups? thats amateur shit.
From what I heard, it was both the main laptop - and back-up laptop - which, were found in a different state.
If that is true..
I’d have SO MANY various ways to access whatever is needed, to run said show - one of which, kept on me, at all times.
Perhaps it’s overkill, though, these “never happened before” instances are entirely avoidable; and if the entire show runs on something such as this - overkill is necessary.
However, it’s an important lesson for Ronnie - and perhaps he’ll come to understand HIS responsibility, in all of this - as well as it provided everyone with some great entertainment and content/conversation material.
So, it’s still a win/win, in my eyes. Lol
After your last video about tracks I was hoping you'd make this video. Thank you for this! The true story about why bands do use tracks and why it has absolutely nothing to do with lip-synching or ripping off their audiences - quiet the contrary - needs to be spread.
What’s wrong with lip-synching if it’s OK to saxophone sync?, Why not lips? Why even plug in and play just press start on the machine.
I just saw FIR at Rockzilla and they stole the show. Amazing energy and set. No one in that packed audience cared about the tracks, let me tell you.
One of my favorite bands Ice Nine Kills, during their song Hip to be Scared, they have an 80’s synth before the breakdown. And in a live setting, they have it as a backing track and Spencer Charnas does the talking during that segment live but once he starts using the axe before the breakdown, his microphone is away from his mouth and you can hear the backing track finish the verse. It definitely adds to the theatrical setting.
With "watch the world burn" out now I feel like this whole charade has aged like wine for Ronnie. Couldn't have more respect to a man with his own principles. I'll always root for those that stay true to their principles.
3 weeks ago, I saw Lorna Shore in concert... And I can't imagine them without backing tracks... They would need a full orchestra ^^
Yeah, and they would have to spend a lot of money to feed them and have somewhere for them to sleep. It would be too inconvenient and expensive for them to hire a full orchestra. Pulse what if they're playing in a small venue where would they have the room.
@@crystal95405 exactly my point ;-)
@@latentsea I saw them in Belgium... Didn't have to fly anywhere ^^
For me the best example of how much laptops and backing tracks can elevate the show is Lorna Shore. Imagine Lorna shore without the epic orchestra background.
I see how FIR can be like, it wouldn't sound like FIR and we don't want to give a bad experience to fans, but yes, they should have at least 5 backups and then hace backups of those backups.
Does FIR have a lot of orchestral arrangements or something? Are the tracks that necessary.
@@Octavian2 They do have synths, 808s, pads.. Remember FIR has a lot of trap/rap stuff mixed with the rock aspect so yeah, its necessary
@@The_KlaVra Explains why I never got into them.
Hey man, I'm SO glad I found your channel!! I also, had my "15 MIN of fame" back in the early 2000's, being a fill in drummer for a touring opening act, while the band's drummer hand was healing, from driving a screwdriver thru it....long story lol
Anyway, love, LOVE the stories brother, keep up the good work and much success!!!
Basically Bach is at the point that even if he realizes he might be wrong, he is not going to apologize at all. I also don't think I have ever been to a concert that has not used some form of track at all. Plenty of bands have fancy openers are crazy video/light shows.
Bach’s the kinda guy who would rather die angry and wrong than just go “fair point”.
You must go to some pretty shitty concerts.
@Tan Jenner 100 fucking percent!!
Could you imagine the chaos of a Rammstein concert where the pyrotechnics weren't pre-programmed? lol
He's not wrong.
Nothing to do with vocals, imagine a Falling in Reverse show without Popular Monster, Drugs, voices in my head or any song with Hip Hop beats section in a Setlist. I think people would be more pissed about that than having the show cancel.
THIS!! i thought the exact same thing, except i used rammstein and all the industrial sounds they use
Thank you for this explanation! I have actually wondered about some of my favorite artists when they have a violin or keyboard part/intro/bridge and thought "well it won't sound like that at a live show because they're not going to have a keyboard player or violinist accompanying them on tour for those tiny little bits." I never even thought about those parts being backing tracks! It makes sense now how a band like Orbit Culture or Amon Amarth can sound so much like their albums live!!!!
Glad you jumped in on this, I've been DYING while watching them go at it. Ronnie is actually taking this on better than I would if I were in his position. Yes tracks have gone out mid show and yes bands had to adjust and keep going, but how did the quality of that song/show go? People lose their minds and bash bands when a scream is missed, or a solo sounds different. So you're supposed to walk in to a show knowing, no intros, no outros, back effects, zero time to rehearse an entirely new set, grenade your whole performance as a headliner? Ugh I can type for hours, but props to Ronnie for making the tough decision and telling the TRUTH about why. Also saw FIR in July, one of the best shows I have ever been to. Don't know anyone that has been to a Sebastian BitchBach concert lol.
I have no issues with bands using tracks. At the same time, I can't support a band cancelling as a festival headliner the day before the show because they lost their laptops with their tracks. The festival they signed a contract to play now has to deal with a horde of ticked off ticket buyers. The festival also has no chance to book an adequate replacement with such short notice. That hurts their reputation and can cost them repeat business. It's the band's responsibility to make sure their gear makes it to the next show. It's also the band's responsibility to make sure they have more than one backup for a piece of gear so integral to their show that they would have to consider cancelling if it failed or was lost. Instead of the band dealing with their negligence head on and playing without the tracks and putting their reputation on the line, they decided to save their own reputation at the expense of the festival's. Not cool.
Thanks for the counter, I totally understand and get your point. I had tickets to a concert at a casino for New Year’s Eve and the band canceled on the morning of the show. Its just the artists side versus the fans side. For this one I still gotta stay with FIR. You can always make it up to the venue and fans by doing another gig, maybe a bigger better one, cancelations happen all the time. You can’t un-do a crappy altered shortened show that you made fans pay to see. When you are at such an unbelievably high level of fans, views, and expectations I just don’t think you can serve up anything less than perfect. They only made the mistake of having no backups other than what the crew lost, they’ll never make it again I’m sure. 2 sides to that coin, but for old antique rockers to challenge their talent, creativity and call them not real musicians is petty and low. Numbers speak for themselves there.
@@mattb.2740 what are they supposed to do in your opinion? Play the show anyways without tracks and (possibly) all the infrastructure coming with them? Tracks are not all audible you know? Timecodes controlling lights, videos and even the effect racks of the musicians are also tracks for example. You don't know what else they are using this technology for and if Ronnie says "driving a car without an engine" it sounds like A LOT. You can criticize the lack of backup but a cancellation was probably the best and only option. Just for perspective: what would you do if half the band called in sick on the day of the show? Let's say drummer, one guitar player and Ronnie himself have covid or whatever. How is that show supposed to work in that scenario? It doesn't. Things happen and shows get cancelled. It is called "live" for a reason you know? 😉
I saw Cold years ago. It was probably my 3rd time seeing them. They played a series of smaller shows but one place (my show) was so small, they couldn't fit all their equipment in and set up. They gave us an acoustic set (unpracticed) instead and Scooter kept apologizing but it, IMO (and my friends) was one of the best shows of theirs and a great experience others on that same tour didn't get to see.
My drummer was in the air force and got sent over seas while we were at the end of a small tour and the rest of us did the acoustic thing for the last shows too.
Not trying to take anything from FIR. I TOTALLY understand. Thats a hard choice to make but you have to do what you feel is best and Ronnie did.
People losing their minds over a solo sounding different is the problem. A whole generation who has been raised to go to concerts to see a perfect reproduction of an album is something we only associate with pop music.
As you said, for a lot of people the term "track" refers solely to audio, be it vocals or instruments. I only learned that there was far more to it from your videos and still have a bit of a hard time associating stuff like lightning with it. A layman like me would file that more under programming, which in turn carries associations like batch or routine.
Or maybe it's the fault of Windows Media Player, which IIRC used to label all songs off an imported CD as tracks. :D
thanks for the education (seriously). i'm 56, and, like lots of us oldies, assumed "backtracks" = "lipsync" I appreciate your clarification
Sebastian trying to be relevant...again 🤦♀️
People saying how Falling in Reverse should have just played anyway, and then those same people would be talking about what a shit show it was. Can't win...people just need some common sense.
Just saw Epica in concert, can't even imagine how that would have sounded without backing tracks.
The new setup/background for your videos looks really proffesional and i like the new visuals, have a good one! :D
I actually like tracks at live shows. All of the times I've heard them, they've improved the show. Intro music, parts from albums that can't simply be replicated on stage, instruments that you'd just need for one song and therefore can't just bring another artist... So I don't mind at all.
Sure, lip synching would suck, but I missed that panic so I don't really expect that to happen.
A cool story about not using tracks where they were probably planned: In 2007 I saw Ensiferum live in Switzerland and their biggest song at that time was Victory Song. That song definetly needs a track, as a major part of it is instrumentals that are not guitars and it's a pretty long intro section of that. They were touring with Chthonic (from Taiwan, great band, check them out) and one of their members plays the Erhu (oriental two-string violin). So things happened and we got the intro from this Erhu instead of a track, changing the sound of it a lot (the Erhu sounds wery melancholic and sad), but also making it really, really great!
Good Stuff Brother🤘
Just know that no generation ever took Sebastian seriously. No need to start now. 😂
It blows my mind that me, a person who just loves music and isn't a musician at all, knows how prevalent tracks are, but a musician that has been playing shows longer than I've been alive doesn't know this
Sebastian Bach was part of an 80s hair band called Skid Row. If you listen to their music, they never used any type of backing tracks. Musically, it was simpler and less complex sounding. There big hit were "I Remember You" and "18 and Life". They were around during the Milli Vanilli lip syncing scandal, which for those who didn't use baking tracks they think they are the samething they aren't. In comparison, Skid Rowe came out in 1989, Guns N Roses in 1985 used backing tracks. Def Leppard never used backing tracks until their drummer was in a car accident and lost his arm. Starting in 1984 when they were on tour they were using backing tracks to make their sound more stronger and more robust than what it was but if you also compare the music to before the accident and after you can also see how their sound changed as a whole. But Skid Rowe were purists and there's nothing wrong with that but not understanding how technology works is kind of unexcusable. Without backing tracks Queen would have never of been able to perform "Bohemian Rhapsody" live, there are about 180 vocal dubs in that song. Extremely impressive, for the day and by today's standards as well.
@@latentsea How is it a cop out? The bands are still playing live? They are not talking about tracks REPLACING what the band is playing or singing, they are click tracks, added orchestra's, time changes, effects changes etc. How is it sneaky bullshit? Or somehow a guitarist changing i=his own effct make sit REAL or some bullshit. Man people are weird.....
@@suffersystemstudios I agree with you. So many bands use backing tracks live and the concert goers never know. Do people think Metallica dragged a little kid around to recite the Lord's Prayer in "Enter Sandman"? To me it's an insane argument. To me backing tracks & backing vocals only add to the overall sound of a band in concert. A lot of lead singers harmonize with themselves in studio and layer their voices so while holding a note, a word or a line is quickly said you can hear it on the album. I automatically thought of Amy Lee of Evanescence and the song "All of Me" just listening to the song you can hear her harmonizing and layering her vocals. She's a brilliant singer with a fantastic voice and she show cases it beautifully. Linkin Park Chester and Mike were masterminds all brought to you live with backing tracks and their live show was phenomenal.
@@BeachDreamere It really blows my mind how this blew up as big as it did and how much of a big deal people are making it into. I mean In could understand if it was still the 80's and this was Milli Vanilli, but most every single band using them is not using them for that purpose. backing tracks do not mean lip syncing any more, and really hasn't for a long time, if it ever truly was in the first place. NIN, Ministry, Rammstein, Queen, etc etc etc all use them.
What's next, people goign to start freaking out when they realize bands are not using every single one of the 20 guitar cabinets on stage and they are actually empty cabs? Oh NOES!!!
@@suffersystemstudios I'm calling myself out, I'm 53, a child of the 80s and was there for the Milli Vanilli incident. I'm a music junkie and love all kinds of music and I understand the difference between lip syncing, backing tracks and backing tracks with back vocals. I'm not a musician, I work with computers. Backing tracks were taking place in the 70s with Deep Purple, CCR, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Elton John just to name a few. GNR has always used them and they started in 1985, at 15 they blew my mind. Van Halen used them. FIR is a great band and put out some great music. Just because I'm 53 doesn't mean I love under a rock and don't appreciate music as a whole, including today's music. Like everyone, I have my favorites. But this blowing up like this, is just mind blowing. The comments here, some are so laughable. Reading some of Ronnie Radke's responses have been hysterical especially the ones showing Sebastian Bach hypocrisy and Skid Row's obvious use of backing tracks. That man will never admit it and it's completely unbelievable. I wish people would educate themselves.
I like symphonic death/black metal bands that record albums with full orchestras. I thing it would be impossible for them to tour live without backing tracks, since I do not think that touring with a full orchestra is really possible.
*I understand both sides of the argument here. Old school is like "WTF? We managed our whole careers without this crap and you have to cancel your show?!" I think the point about "real bands", Aerosmith, etc.. was that even if those bands use backing tracks too, if something went wrong, they could still manage to put on a show without it. They wouldn't just cancel as that being the only solution. Old school (Sebastian) feels like new school (Ronnie) relies so much on studio and digital effects that a lot of their sound comes from technology itself instead of actual talent. I think that was Sebastian's argument and why he was focusing on vocals and all that. Todays bands rely heavily on technology for just about every song and there's nothing wrong with that. But if you're going to rely so heavily on back tracks to the point that without them you can't perform... then you might want to start having a plan B and C in place for it.*
Reminds me of when people got mad at a7x for using tracks instead of playing the 10 guitar tracks live with 2 guitarists
Saw this happen to jelly roll during a rock on the range set. It was raining, lost power, killed their laptop. They couldn't play live. they stood on stage drinking during their set to kill time.
Bands that use a lot of tech should really always have "no tech" version of their set. I've played shows where the laptop tech all died mid set and it was fucking embarrassing. We switched things up a bit after that and learned stripped down versions of most of our existing set. We played half the songs synced to automation (clicks+samples) and the other half freetime. As is "sods law" once we had backup and stripped down versions of songs the gear never failed, but it did once and that was a life changing miserable gig where we felt like fakes. Shit was not cash.
The conversation shifted from using tracks to where it should have gone is why did they have to cancel. You said that during shows, many times the tracks have gone out. Did the show suddenly stop and everyone leave, or did they continue and just used the live vox and instruments? Did Freddie sing that the show had to end because their harmonization went out? In the immortal words of Bill O'Reilly, "F it! We'll do it live!"
Yeah but it's the difference is they are mid show. Last thing you wanna do is give an audience a bad representation or at least a lesser representation of their live shows than normal
@@prodigalbrock yea I was gonna say, mid show, you kinda gotta keep rolling, but if your whole show is missing in the form of their laptops, they won't want to perform a barebones show that is just super bland and boring.
@@thatguy_5240 Well, they COULD ask the audience if they want to see a stripped down version (kinda what Nightwish did back in the day in Denver). But I understand it can be *very* difficult since you've only practiced with the tracks (and effects etc.), so it could be a total disaster too (I'm not sure if NW would have done it without their tracks... a singer that in realty was already on her way out was another thing 😂)
@@prodigalbrock One time I saw King Diamond in NYC. Before his set, he came out and said he wasn't feeling well and that he couldn't do his falsetto. (They're normally harmonized by a female backup singer.) He went on to state that if anyone wanted to leave, they could for a full refund. Everyone stayed. He still killed. Be a professional. Find a way around the issue.
@@Garbox80 I forget what festival it was, but Manowar pulled out and Sabaton agreed to do double duty. They played another full set, but Joakim had messed up his voice. Everyone was treated to a one-off set with Tommy handling vox. Be a professional. Find a way around.
In this case I'm siding with ronnie. Just a few weeks ago I saw Heaven Shall Burn letting the crowd chant Blind Guardians Valhalla because their Introtracks couldn't play. And I dont think Falling in Reverse had an easy decision with canceling that show. Can we please all go back to listening to music and enjoying shows without getting offended by everything and fight what real music is or who is bigger, better and whatever. Just listen to what you like. Thanks for sharing that video, have a nice day Tank and stay safe 😁
Back in the 90s I've been at a Manowar show in vienna. The audience wanted a "Zugabe" (I think it's encore in english). The band never came back onstage, but played a tape. I was furious. So much for "real oldschool metalbands". Today I don't think I would enjoy bands like tool or lorna shore live without tracks.
Please don't lose the new laptop for Aftershock on Friday. Lol.
We're stoked for the show! 🤘
I was a stage hand (and sometimes audio engineer) in Germany at a bunch of conventions with live music acts from Japan. 20 years ago, one of those bands was not able to bring their drummer, so our sound engineer got a mini disc player from the band with all the drum tracks on it. Some of the idol bands were just singing and the music had to come from tracks. Other bands brought synth parts and backing vocals on tracks.
But I've never seen full playback at these events, though i have seen half playback of the vocals (you can hear the vocals at 25% volume when the singer is not singing) on rare occasions (like when the singer is so drunk, he does not remember all the lyrics or when the song is so new, that the singer is not fully sure of himself yet).
As long as it’s not a Milli Vanilli situation I don’t care if a band uses tracks. What I’m concerned about is why don’t they have backups to prevent having to cancel.
Even with data backups it would have been impossible to get new laptops setup in time. These computers take days for computer and musical engineers to setup. It's not like loosing the data on your laptop and hitting restore and a little while later, there's your stuff. But even with those backups and restores, something inevitably goes wrong and most people end up with something missing. Also the replacement laptops have to be very robust, they look like regular laptops but there's a lot more power in those laptops then your regular laptop has and even more so than a gamers laptop even has. Then there's the amount of software that has to be loaded onto those laptops and the data as a whole. They had a 24 hour window, there is no way it could have happened.
This Video was needed. Thank you!! It's simple, it's evolution. Studio tracks can have all the bells and whistles a band wants to express an emotion, people get used to hearing certain elements and in concert it's often difficult to duplicate. Some of the Old Schoolers are tech resistant, but, again, its evolution and the quality of the show is what the bands are striving for.
I also think the bigger issue is you cancel a show because your tracks go down. So the band absolutely cannot play songs without all of those things in tracks. I mean could they not play some songs without all of the tracks?
No, they couldn't. Most of FiR set is their newer songs and most of them have rap verses or\and a lot of synths and effects, it's physically impossible to play those songs without tracks. And it's not bad at all. It's just a matter of genre and style and it makes absolutely no sense to call the band "fake" or "untalented", especially when they have Luke Holland on drums.
@@its_not_fair9866 Fair enough, I don't listen to FIR as its not my cup of tea. Who cares what others really have to say at the end of the day, everyone is just bitching about opinions. This is why social media has ruined society, everyone is just trying to convince someone else that their opinion is the only correct one. If I was in the band I would have a few back up songs we could play without tracks because when people pay money to see a show they should get to see one and I would respect them for doing so if I bought a ticket to see them. But like I said this is my opinion and I am just some dude on the internet who is a music fan.
And another reason they couldn't just change the set list is the fact, they only had one day for rehearsal. Even though the songs are their own, if you haven't played a song in a while you get rusty on it and one day might not be enough to get all the songs back into memory, especially if you have to perform it as a band and you also have a certain stage show planned for the songs. And I don't know about Falling in Reverse, but they might have had band member changes or touring members only, who don't know the full catalog.
@@Wollestar I can understand what you posted but, most bands rehearse before tour, while rehearsing you can have, say a few songs you could do without all of the production and give the fans something in case something like this happens. I am sure if Ronnie would have asked the crowd, hey our laptops are screwed and we can't perform a full set today but how about a few songs,? I am sure the fans would have been thrilled. I don't blame them nor am I mad about it in anyway, I am just stating things that could be done. As a programmer I can tell you laptops have many failure points and I would not rely on laptops to always work.
@@randyblankenship8781 bands don’t offhandedly remember every song they made and it’s not like they had a full set list of things that don’t require tracks (of which FiR might have like maybe a handful).
I’m going to take Ronnie’s word for it that the show is just fucked instead of just throw random assumptions and guesses of how he’s wrong.
I have no problem with using backing tracks but I do have a problem with canceling the show because you don't have your laptops. You are supposed to be musicians, whatever happened to the mantra, the show must go on? I don't care if this doesn't sound exactly like the album, that's why I'm there to see a live show. I expected not to sound like the album.
Finally someone nailed it: the show must go on!!
"The show must go on" is good and all, but whether a band can let the show go on or not depends on the music they play. An "oldschool" Metal Band, sure, they can play with or without their backing tracks. it's gonna sound different, maybe slightly worse than usual, but it won't ruin anything.
A Band like Falling in Reverse... that's a different Story. The amount of digital effects, distortion and just electro sounds they use make it impossible to perform without their tracks. It's like missing half their instruments.
I still think Falling in Reverse is at blame here though. There are a miriad of technical solutions for a safe backup they could have used and they went with "have a second laptop that's being transportet together with the first one so whatever happens to one, happens to both.". A simple offsite Cloud backup and a medium sized internet connection could have saved this.
@@timokampwerth1996 Yeah I understand that a band like them uses a lot more technology than an old school metal band. But like you said I put the blame on them for not having a back up plan
Also Tank was adamant that the band are great musicians and their laptop doesn’t dominate the performance-- therefore no excuse. Either you’re great musicians and can salvage a performance or you’re a slave to the laptop and maybe not as great as people claim,
@@czarevich So basically what you're saying is that Metallica can salvage a show with the Basist stuck in traffic because they are good?
The base doesn't dominate most of their songs, so they can just play those and be fine, right?
FiR cancelled because the backlash of a mediocre performance would have been far worse.
You can be a great musician AND rely on Backing tracks. Those are by no means mutually exclusive.
thanks for explaining it. My thinking was wrong. I understand now. Thanks... from an old school metal head :)
The real boomer response: "Ronnie who?"
Boomers are a separate generation than GenX. Didn't know that? If you can't play a show without your laptop means you're a DJ, not a band.
I'm a Gen X'er and I understand that music evolves. I'm and old rock chick but love FIR. Ronnie doesn't get enough credit for the amazing things he does. I'm Not A Vampire revamped and The Drug In Me Is reimagined are phenomenal both visually and vocally.
I was trying to figure out why he had a metal head in the Watch the World Burn video getting hit with laptops, makes so much sense now!
Seen Fit For An Autopsy last month. They clearly used backing tracks (especially for one of my favorite songs "Higher Level of Hate") throughout their set but they KILLED IT live. Joe's voice sounded just like the album; the rest of the guys just crushed it as well. One of the best shows I've ever been to, honestly 🖤
me too! they toured with In Flames but I was SUPER impressed by them lowkey they could've headlined!
I was so happy to find this. I honestly think that so many people sounding off about not needing laptops or that they shouldn't need them are people who either A) have never listened to most newer bands and B) have not been to a live show at any level. After all, i have seen even regional bands use tracks for various things. When I saw Journey and Foreigner back in mid 2000 and they had backing tracks.
We have just hit a point where everyone is about making themselves look smart. Even if they are wrong, they can't be wrong. And they have all the answers on all of the topics. Thank you for being the voice of reason in this and sharing your knowledge and experience.
I think the whole "backing-track & laptop drama" depends always on the band and style. Im pretty sure Bands like Bring me the Horizon needs their laptop and backing tracks. But Bands like Cannibal Corpse will never need them I guess lol. And also dont forget: so many bands have digital amps and everything. So its not just "backing tracks". Often its light changes, patch changes, metronome, etc. When everything is gone, I can understand that it is a nightmare to switch ur whole setup, learn ur patch changes and reprogram everything on the fly.
Bands like Epica, Nightwish, Dragonforce, etc need them. Heck an band that uses keyboards but has no live keyboard player needs them. Sabaton, Seven Spires, Starkill, Arch Enemy, etc.
Dave Mustaine of Metallica is 100% against backing tracks and has stated it numerous times so it doesn't surprise me that Cannibal Corpse doesn't use them either. Dave Mustaine has stated that he doesn't mind them being used like for the amps and equipment but not for the singing or the musicians. When they play live bring in musicians like for the background vocals and maybe an extra guitarist or two to bring more sound to the music like it has when you listen to it on the album. Sebastian Bach from Skid Row is of this mindset as well. But this is music and it's not 1 way or the highway. If Queen used technically to their advantage, then anyone can. Without backing tracks Queen would not have been able to perform "Bohemian Rhapsody" live, there are about 180 vocal dubs to make 4 men sound like a choir of 40.
I've been to many concerts both with and without backing tracks and I love them all. Let the music free!
There is nothing more annoying than thr misuse of the term “boomer”.
The only people who are “boomers” were born to the WWII generation. The people of Sebastian Bach’s generation are GENERATION X.
Was fortunate to see Falling in Reverse this summer on the Rockzilla tour - they put on a great show! I'm sure they want all their fans to have the best experience.
Amen! IMO it comes down to this… if this bothers someone, don’t go, don’t buy a ticket. If someone has no problem, great. But, it isn’t your job to stop people from going to shows because you don’t like what is happening. Stop worrying so much about what other people enjoy.
I fucking love internet drama. 🤣
I feel like you miss the point. All the old bands use backing tracks. But if they didn’t have them they would still play the show. I think that’s the point.
It’s a good point to make (which I even asked about), but during this entire argument, everyone was screaming about the use of backing tracks in general. I mean, Eddie Trunk literally listed off “real rock bands” that don’t use tracks, not realizing that they use tracks.
We the fans appreciate you guys behind the scenes who help make a great show
The disconnect is definitely in the idea of what the tracks are, as you mentioned. They generally aren't the vocals or guitars/bass or drums. Can understand people being miffed if maybe only a percentage of the live performance was actually live. At a certain point it could seem like to concert goers that they are pretty much just listening to an album being played in a live setting. But by in large that is not the case. I know the Chevelle mentioned that they do not use backing tracks and do not include anything in their album tracks that they cannot do live. Have no problem with that if that is their thing..and of course that is just one example. This was actually a conversation for this band as we started adding programmed tracks to our songs. We discussed whether or not people seeing us live would have an issue with it. Even if we included a computer running a DAW and added a member to play the parts that are backing on a midi keyboard...many of the tracks are multilayered using several virtual instruments and would require more than two hands playing two controllers. Just not very possible logistically. So we could play without the tracks live but the experience wouldn't be the same. I can't imagine Electric Callboy without tracks...use of song intros and segues. And we all know that Kevin can play everything but do we want him tied to keyboard (even though he is playing one in the Fuck Boi video) ? Fully back you on this one Tank! The 'argument' here isn't even valid because one side's stance is way off-base.
Dang Tank! Last time I came in this early I became a father! Great video brother!
This is like "my amp isn't turning on" and you have no backups.
The disconnect is people think when you use tracks, you aren't playing for real and giving a true live show. Think like a MTV video where you aren't playing. Perfect example is the movie Airheads when they get their chance to perform on stage but they aren't plugged in and they want them to fake it. That's what people think of when you say they are using tracks.
That said, I agree with Wolfgang Van Halen when he said in an interview, "you should be able to play your shit". If you write it and it's on the album you should know how to play it, that's not debatable for me. Extra fluff like intro noises and whatnot doesn't matter to me, the actual ability to play the instruments and sing is what does.
Dude Iron maiden and Metallica, 2 of the biggest touring bands in metal, use tracks, Sebastián is such a child sometimes, great video tank, keep em coming 🤘
A collision between the egos of Sebastian and Ronnie is the kind of thing that could start a nuclear war. 😬
Honestly there's a LOT of reasons to really, honestly dislike Ronnie Radke, and I do really dislike him he's an absolute clown, but this seems a weird argument. I can kind of see both sides, the thought of backing tracks in an actual band with instruments strikes me as very weird and should be unnecessary, but if that's how they do it who cares. I will say that cancelling a performance over it is a bit of a bitch move, there would have been people who spent money to see them and they were owed a show.
The only thing I didn’t like about what Ronnie did was call out the crew. I felt like that threw them under a bus. But one of my favorite bands Periphery depends on laptops for the sound and light for their concerts. Would anyone accuse them of faking it? No. They still play their instruments.
Touring is expensive; bands have to cut overhead. Laptops help them. Problem solved.
The same people who bitch about bands using laptops are the same ones who wouldn’t purchase a ticket to see them perform in the first place.
No it doesn't bother me at all. The band is still performing and most of the music is still coming from their instruments. Also I haven't seen any lip-synching. This whole argument against tracks is actually disrespectful to the hundreds of people who put so much work into live performances.
It is so amazing to watch a group of folks who literally grew up watching the development of this astonishing technology get so bumfuzzled by it. Must be nice to to be so insulated from the world.
The use of tracks doesn’t bother me per se, but when the band is paralyzed, unable to perform without them, and cancels their show, that’s a problem. Those guys could have borrowed some gear and put on a unique, stripped down set that their fans would have loved. They took the easy way out.
Maybe they have a certain standard that they want to achieve? Cancelling a show and losing revenue certainly isn't an easy way out.
Tbh, both vocalists are super talented, but both have really big egos that are a real turn-off. Sebastian is too loud at times and Ronnie Radke treats anyone who doesn’t agree with him including fans like absolute shit. Both need to remember where they came from and get off their high pedestals
Hope you read this Tank!!! I'm a dad of 3 little ones so it's been probably nearing a decade since I've been able to go to a show/festival/concert whatever you prefer to call them and one thing I have always said is when you are going to an event you are going for entertainment and if there is something that makes that entertainment more enjoyable, sound better, look better, all that good stuff, then use it. The fans want the best time of there lives when they go to a show and there is nothing wrong with giving the fans the most you can give.....This really seems like a whole my generation was better than yours because we had it "harder" or "we didn't need all that technology". If you have a "tool" that makes something work better or makes your product better....then why would you not use it? I get being stuck in "your ways" but why should other musicians have to do things exactly the way "you do or did" in order for it to be "real".
“Being ignorant is not so much a shame, as being unwilling to learn.”
― Benjamin Franklin
I wonder if way back in the day, the first primates were like: Look at these idiots and their "tools" when they started crafting stuff, lmao.
Why do Millennials call anyone older than them "boomers". Bach is Gen X. I think there is a major difference in thought process about a concert and the point of it - Gen X and older don't want the music to sound exactly like it is off the album since we can just stay at home and here that. Freddie Mercury even made a comment about this in his time. We want the energy, we want that raw feeling. I think the younger generation cares more about seeing the performing as evidence by everyone viewing the show through their phones and hearing people talk when I watch live shows filmed with phones on RUclips. I think the younger generation cares more about saying they were there than actually being there - as in being in the moment.
As far as backing tracks are concerned, if a band is using them for these reasons listed below, I have no problem:
- Orchestral/symphonic sections that cannot be duplicated (like Nightwish and Epica does for example)
- Choirs (Nightwish, Epica, and many other symphonic metal acts do this as well)
- Certain “interlude” type tapes (like Metallica does for certain songs that start off like like “Damage, Inc.”, “Fight Fire with Fire”, “Blackened”, etc. for instance or Queen for “Bohemian Rhapsody”)
- Synth parts where a keyboard player isn’t present (Sabaton and Static-X comes to mind)
If it’s for reasons where you have a vocal track playing in the background or additional guitar parts or anything like that while the music is still playing (e.g. Bring Me the Horizon, Mötley Crüe), that I find lame. It makes live shows feel disingenuous/unnatural if you have to heavily rely on tracks instead of not having an additional rhythm guitarist or not having any other band member sing backing vocals.
Sounds more like pretentious music snobbery tbh. I mean why draw the line at backup vocalists or rhythm guitars? Your argument could be applied the things you listed. Why not go and find a choir, orchestra, or learn to play the interlude parts instead of disingenuously and unnaturally replacing them with tracks? And what about keyboards should make them exempt from these rules? This is an instrument just a legitimate as a guitar or anything else yet you think it's okay to replace them with a track... but not a rhythm guitar or backup vocals? Weird, that doesn't make sense. Have you ever seen a solo artist that uses tracks for the entire song except the instrument they play and their vocals? You must really hate them!
Many bands just can’t afford to have another musician on tour. If you have one guitarist you need backup tracks for rhythm parts in some songs. I do value it when a band can keep going when their backing track system fails, but this does depend on the type of band and the specific songs.
You know when you have been watching tank a good while, when you dont realise how long his beard has got till you get a full upper body shot
If the laptops are that important then maybe carry them on person. It’s not like lugging a guitar or amp or cab around.
everything i do uses tracks (drum programming/samples, synthesizers/sound effects, sometimes guitar tracks i play the opposite parts to, bass tracks, etc.) and if my method for it goes down, i cannot do em. i've been using a USB drive on a Roland synthesizer since 2011 to do this. i cannot think of one person, let alone 6 people, who could recreate all the various things i do in the recording phase on a stage to an audience without it sounding massively different every single night. the one band that got me interested in technology that got to this point used tape decks as early as 1988, and has had tape deck malfunctions/tape melts in their career before shifting to digital platforms for playback. one of my favorite local bands used an ADAT rig for stuff they recorded at Indigo Ranch. the last band i played in uses a laptop and triggers. HOW is it so hard to understand that technology is pivotal to many groups who started out or grew with it? Hell, I legit hope one day before I turn 50 that I get to do a big tour and witness massive laptop failure mid-show, and replace it with a back-up. I side with Ronnie on this matter. I want a show that delivers how the band wants to deliver. I want to deliver a show that reflects what I do. I want more people to do as they see necessary for their bands, even if it's with a giant rig that uses some giant 64+ bus Dante interface. just make the music you want, and do it live how you see it fits that moment. stop getting lost in the fallacies and go kill it on stage for 3+ months every year until you retire.
I mean, if they just got off tour and don't need to rehearse that much, then couldn't they have just played without backing tracks?
As someone who's both a musician and works in tech: the only thing that is a little bit inexcusable on the side of Falling in Reverse here is that they don't properly manage backups. If you store all your material on laptops then it's like a 10 dollar a month subscription to iCloud (or equivalent service) to ensure that you have a (near) perfect replica of that machine in the cloud which you can always re-create from.
Yeah, agreed 100%. Any professional band of a certain caliber should have all of these things saved on a desktop at their home base and have identical (or near, maybe their older gear) laptops already loaded-up with these shows and ready to be fedexed or couriered to the show location. I mean, if it’s something that can shut-down a show entirely, it’s a “mission critical” piece of gear, as opposed to something like a guitar that can be got at a music store in whatever city. I’m sure they’ll adjust accordingly, but the blow-back here seems misplaced: the issue isn’t the computers and tracks, it’s that these guys let so much hinge on something irreplaceable when we know things go “missing” on tours all the time.
You make a very good point. It is silly as F. Nonetheless, canceling a show demonstrates way to much relliance on digital tech. A dj sure as hell would need to cancel, but a so called band... one would think they would plow through.
Hey my friend is in one of those bandes on your wall. I’ve done some tours with him. That goofy lil bean “blast fast, eat ass”
Two of the best shows I've ever seen were Nine Inch Nails and Iron Maiden when they were closing different years for the Soundwave Festival here in Australia. Both were clearly using backing tracks for atmosphere building
Nine Inch Nails‘ set is LOADED with tracks from all of the stuff that Trent programs into their music. And it doesn’t bother me one bit. One of the best shows I’ve ever seen.
Maiden? Trust me, Nicko is not playing to a track.
@@CecilBrian I should verify with the Maiden. It wasn't tracks they were playing along to it was a bunch of intros to stuff like the Trooper. Granted it's borderline whether they actually count or not
Breaking news. Laptop sack Falling In Reverse and announces world tour.😅
Oh I absolutely believe that bands like Lorna Shore and Nightwish should tour with whole symphony orchestras. Because that was how it was done in the days of Bach - the real one who died 1750. Anyone going by the name of Sebastian Bach today is just a fake and lip synching the original.
Hahahahaha
Even if the tracks aren't 'audible' there is very often a click track automated midi program changes for various pieces of stage technology and/or lighting so that the full performance is kept in sync, particularly important if using video projections. It's not always about the audio tracks, it can just be a method to enable automation.
I thought the point of a live show was to let the audience have a good time. If having laptops/back tracks help you create a better show, why wouldn't you use it?
Edit: I kept watching... 12:40 I like the way you think. 😅
It's 2022 baby!
1 question for u, would u have liked to see them play the gig anyway and make the most of it or are u happy with them canelling? I dont mind Fir using tracks even on vocals at occasion. Sometimes its needed. But I would have wanted to see them play anyway. Who cares if its not their best show ever. Love ronnie and gang fyi.
Honestly, it's a tough question. Because they're more than capable of performing, as they're all super talented musicians. But you wouldn't be getting the full experience of their show without some of the backing parts.
late to the party but man this is hilarious. i never thought metal would get tot he ok boomer stage, and here we are. id like to move that discussion by a generation and imagine the "old school" metalheads getting the same treatment for using electric instruments and speakers "what you dont know how to play yourself you need eletric enhancers? pfff you cant be a REAL band cause REAL musiscians dont need eletric amplification. What is that even, cant you play a REAL guitar?"
Subject aside (as hilarious as it is) - At this rate, bands will need to hire their own IT departments!
I expect they do
Well to be honest thats what their audio engineers basically are. Thats why I don't give a pass to no backups at all available cus of X reason. Like no. You're a professional band. If you have nearly an entire day to recover before hand you should be able to get a usable setup going in 24 hours and should have cloud backups for at least a rudimentary setup. People will take a stripped down performance over nothing and wasted PTO.
Tank , could you possibly do a video of a venue set up for a live gig? From empty venue to stage set up and equipment set up. Also maybe some of what tech’s do.
Find that really interesting. Thanks and keep up the great work.
That'd be cool if Ronnie does a video reacting to this. 🤘
What about when a band member leaves the band and they track the entire part? Wondering your opinion on that especially as someone who has worked for a band that's done this.
I mean, look at what happened to Electric Callboy when their members got COVID on tour. They were able to track those parts and still put on a show instead of cancel. Hell, Bloodywood is doing the same thing touring the US right now while Raoul can't perform with them. No issue with that at all.
To be honest, I had no idea that whole bands were using backing tracks during live performances. I’ve seen club musicians using them, but am surprised that they’re also used in bigger venues and acts. Many times tracks are laid down in studios by different musicians than the actual bandmates. So if you go to see a live performance with a backing track, you may not actually be listening to the band’s guitarist or drummer, etc... something like that would kind of be a hybrid performance not an actual live show. There’s no problem with that just as long as the audience knows and there isn’t a lot of fakery going on. Say what you want about the old-school metalheads but today, artists often can barely sing their own lines. They bring other people in and then take credit for the vocal. In the 60s and 70s, even into the 80s, those artists sang all their lines and were perfectly in tune, no auto tune. And they recorded on tape. I believe these digital tools are great but there’s no comparison to the level of skill and talent that you’d find a few decades back.
I'd say backing tracks are almost more common the bigger the band gets.
@@TankTheTech Even Floor Jansen adds backing vocals of herself to the NW songs and if there has ever been someone who can sing brilliantly without backing vocals it’s definitely her. And can you imagine Nightwish without any symphonic backing tracks?!?
@@TankTheTech Linkin Park used backing tracks, Queen used backing tracks, Guns N Roses used backing tracks. I just don't think people realize what goes into live shows or what happens in the engineering booth while the songs are being created. So many vocalist harmonize with themselves, that's on the backing tracks.
What about Queen? Guns N Roses? The Eagles, Fleetwood Mac, Deep Purple, Led Zeppelin, Pink Floyd, The Who, David Bowie, Billy Joel, CCR and Elton John all used backing tracks people just didn't realize it.
Idk man, seen them at louder than life last weekend, sounded like he was using backing vocal tracks. His screams and rapping sounded live but a lot of singing parts were tracked and you could tell when his growls came back in. Wasn't impressed
I'm so disappointed in Sebastian and I have seen him live and met him at shows. I'm embarrassed that my old idols literally can't technology...
I don't think Sebastian cares about the laptop thing. Ronnie is just a shady dude who makes horrible music and Sebastian saw a chance to take him down. That's how I see it anyway
@@bannistervoid : Sounds pretty personal eh? Do you actually know Ronnie in person or sumthin'?
@@nakitojimo2001 No I just know a rat face punk when I see one. It's called instinct.
@@bannistervoid "Never judge a book by its cover" was never taught to you I see. You know racists say the same thing
@@JakeSPuwuowo69 Oh wow you possess such ancient wisdom. Tell me more!
I'm all for backingtracks.
I remember some of the old bands often would play a 4 minut song in 3,20 minutes.
They would just 'speed run' through their set list cause they were already tired of playing the same song again and again.
And without the backingtrack, there was nothing that kept the tempo down.
It always feels so weird watching people yell at each other when I like all their music...
I’m young but kinda slow so I don’t understand a lot of this stuff, so I can kinda see some older performers not getting it either. I thought using backing tracks meant lipsyncing until just a few years ago, it hadn’t ocurred to me that it meant anything else.
Anyway, Ron’s right here, I just wish he didn’t throw the crew under the bus like that, that was kinda meeeh. Also I may have missed something, but did they not have back ups they could use? Genuine question.
That is also a genuine question I have about it too, but don’t have the answer.