@@treyxaviermusic But I love complex songs with many sequences. Am I defective? Seriously. Why I just cannot listen or write songs how I fcking will from my reason? Music is not a science. It is art and it should not be limited by any templates or rules, like Procrustean beds.
@@zvjatouslawinc.7098 You can write whatever you want but if you weren't writing amazing songs and winning song competitions for your million different chords and dozen time changes every measure by the time you were four the odds are good your efforts at writing complex music suck. Not everyone is going to be Mozart and not everyone enjoys listening to Frank Zappa. What he's talking about here is being a SUCCESSFUL musician. One a lot of people listen to. If you want to be that then you have to kill the ego and keep it simple. Or just do whatever you want and accept the fact you're probably going to be the only one who likes it. As far as your 'Procrustes bed' comment it's not about forced conformity. It's about the fact that music works the way it does because the mathematical concepts that allow music to be made at all ARE rigid. if you want something to sound good to most people you have to work within a certain framework. Yes-you can go outside of this framework to a degree (like with jazz for example) but if you go too far it just sounds like shit.
Loving this shift in focus from gear to songwriting. Let's be honest here, modern metal guitar players don't need yet another demo of some overdrive boost or some modeling amp or sim. They need songwriting help. You can only do so much chugging on tight amps and writing ADD riffs. I feel like the song competition really exposed a huge problem with modern metal players. We've become nerds that only try to impress other nerds with our playing, tone, or production. But no one outside that bubble cares for any of that. Not saying to make top 40s pop music but definitely bring back proper songs, choruses, anthems, *tasteful* playing that workings in context with a song, etc.
I feel like this video is directed at me. I have 11 partials, Furthermore, I want all these songs to be bangers! I have never written a song in my life, and never tried until I started watching this channel.
Just get started, and don't worry if you don't start out great right out of the gate, or things won't turn out as you initially imagined them. Perseverance & development will help you get there. It's just like practicing an instrument, the more you do it, the better you'll get at it.
I'm right there with you and I'm using this as a fire under my butt to get them things put together. Then when I play them for my family and friends and find out you know maybe it's missing something or you know I'll just use them as a producer
You’ve godda crawl before you can walk.. knocking out bangers off whip is rare.. also remember you can overwork a song and waste more time trying to tweet it when it could have been done already.
This is excellent advice. Maybe you already made a lyrics video and I haven't seen it... if not, let me add some thoughts on that. 1. Don't try to write the Sermon on the Mount. You're not saving the world with these words, you're just breaking down one basic little thought in your head. Pretentious lyrics sound... pretentious. 2. Explore your thought well, and sincerely, but also try to make it open to interpretation. People want to apply these words to themselves. If they can't, why would they listen? Also, cryptic lyrics can be cool, but don't make them hieroglyphic... don't go nuts with the metaphors. 3. Work out the rhythm of the SYLLABLES first, and limit yourself to as few as you need to carry the melody. Once you have the syllables blocked out, and the thought clearly in mind, words fall into place pretty easily. You can shoe-horn in extra syllables, or run longer than expected sometimes-that can be a cool effect, but don't overdo it. Again, great video. Finished is MUCH better than perfect.
The back half of the song is where I usually get stuck. I finish that 2nd chorus and think "Ok, what now? Bridge? Interlude? Solo? Breakdown?" and then "What order of the selected options would be most effective?"
Do the Van Halen Jump bridge type thing and combine it with a solo. Basically, whatever key you are in, combine the other chords you haven't used in the rest of your song. Listen to Jump and you will know what I mean. ruclips.net/video/097HgaI2EKQ/видео.html The relevant section I am talking about is a little more than half way through.
@@Jeremy-hx7zj music is like a language. Everyone gets their own spin eventually, but there's some basic vocabulary behind it. The way you learn it is up to you, and once you did, you don't think about it anymore. Sure, you can make music without knowing theory, and still get good results. But at this point it's just a complete game of chance, and if you don't understand how it works, you'll have a much harder time working your next project. And just as with anything else in life, not knowing something is not an advantage. In the best cases, it forces you to work harder, in the worst, you'll never get where you want to be. If the latter is true, it's time to do something about it.
I pretty much fucking despise when a song uses the same basic riff in the verse and chorus. It's lazy to me. It's entirely uninteresting to me. After a riff is played 4 times its time for another riff in almost any situation. Of course they should flow with each other and make sense together. And I tend to think if a singer can only figure out how to sing over a chorus of mindless 8th or 16th note chords (or whatever similarly feel-less approach to writing) then why are they even bothering with music? I'm just shy of 40. But I grew up listening to guys like EVH, Jimmy Page, Toni Iommi, Ritchie Blackmore, and Alex Lifeson. There were plenty of riffs as choruses and plenty of singers could figure out how to sing over such things. And these are only a few examples. Are modern singers incapable of deciphering this skill? I will say that the advice of using basic song structures is wholly worthwhile though.
Great vid man, production quality (visual & audio and everything) is f'in great right now. Super concise, thanks for sharing the knowledge of how to riff-to-song to the masses
A perfect example of having a riff but not knowing what to do with it is , Pneuma by Tool. Adam Jones had that main riff for over 20 yrs and the band could never write anything with it. Finally they do, and win a Grammy
Criticize this song structure all you want, but it has yet to fail Judas priest. Their most brutal song, Painkiller, follows this down to the letter and it's amazing
This is true - it’s the hardest part for a lot of people. Which is why they need to start working on it right away. I don’t know any guitarists who are short on riffs, so quit writing riffs for the moment and start writing lyrics!
@@treyxaviermusic It's kinda the opposite for me: Writing lyrics isn't hard for me, I am a poet anyway, but I haven't picked up the guitar in months due to there being tonnes of stuff on my plate! I don't even really get to read much. My leisure time mostly consists of leftist video essays or music related YT videos...
We write about living in Philly and all its chaos. Our two albums got some decent local traction. For most bands their audience will be local. Keep the topics local. Trey did a song review on one of our songs (Sincerely, Philly) where one of the hooks is "if you see me on the street don't talk to me .... ever." Trey made fun of it a little (in good fun) but that really is the vibe in Philly and it detonates for our audience. It goes over well at dirty bar and basement shows.
Not if your DogSmack! Get away from me Stay away from me Get out of here Keep your distance Restraining order And so on and so on I hate her tracks 1-13
been listening to a lot of the band Turnstile lately, and I think they write some damn good songs, and when I listen, it all makes sense.... there isnt any crazy music theory behind them that I dont understand, or ridiculous chop but I still cant do what they do...
My tip. When you first wake up in the morning, pick up a crappy acoustic guitar, and do not think. Just play for 5 minutes. Stop. Chances are “something”- maybe just an interesting chord change- will be left on your plate. Later on you can play around with it. Have fun with it. Try this or try paying the Xavier fund to get you goin.’
What kind of camera/lens/lighting setup are you using nowadays? I've been watching your channel for 3 or 4 years now and your video quality has always been pretty solid, but over the last year or so it seems like it has gone up to a whole 'nother level. This video especially looks super clean and the background LEDs look fantastic without being distracting. Keep it up!
Thanks, and also nice name! Sony FX3, Sigma 35mm ART, and a GVM key light with an Aputure diffuser. I’ve got a whole video coming talking about the new studio setup where I’ll go into detail
So you say that a song must not contain a part thats probably not gonna repeat in the whole song.but what about the song prisoners in paradise(europe)its intro is never repeated in the whole song yet its a great song
To sum that up: have a Story, write down the emotions in each Part your trying to express. Write riffs to that and the most importain thing, with using completly diffrent riffs is, to makethe transistions right. Thats simply it.
One thing I've found really helpful for trying to finish songs is to take what I call the "Iron Maiden approach", although it's really just NWOBHM in general. And that's to make your riff the intro/outro, then switch to regular chords and/or power chords for the verse/chorus. Think of the song "Wasted Years". Great song, right? Well the intro and bridge are the riff, the verse is just the Maiden standard A string power chords, and the chorus is actually strumming full open chords. If Iron Maiden can make that work, then why can't us normal people do the same
I have this theory that WE the creators sometimes hear something almost subliminally in our riffs that make them coherent and cool, but when played to someone else, its meaningless.... we have to find a way to turn what we are "hearing" when we listen to our riff into something that someone else "hears" also... does that make sense?
I've honestly been putting some of these things into practice as I've been writing my next album. Getting more mileage out of reimagining the same riffs is something I've been working on a lot with some of this new material I've been picking away at. Thanks for all the great tips, Trey. :)
Was just suggested your channel for songwriting by RUclips. Really good stuff and inspiration. Enjoy you video style and humor as well. Subscribed! Thanks for sharing!
Hey bro, I just watched your video today because I needed some ideas on how to turn this riff I had into a song. Well, after taking some notes in my notebook and applying my own version of a “strong structure” I now have a 3:30 minute song written out in less than thirty minutes. THANK YOU!
Inviting people to make empty, uninteresting, interchangeable entertainment, using the same things we've already heard 1000 times, rather than inviting them to make unique masterpieces, and basically art, is the worst insult you can do to art. Entertainment is the cancer of art. Shame on you.
This is for beginners, so they can just finish their first song. Trying to make a masterpiece for your first song is a recipe for disaster. You’d be a terrible teacher
I have hundreds of half-baked song ideas recorded, and it got so overwhelming trying to believe I would ever turn them into actual songs that I stopped recording and just play for myself. Challenge accepted, Trey.
But I love complex songs with many sequences. Am I defective? Seriously. Why I just cannot listen or write songs how I fcking will from my reason? Music is not a science. It is art and it should not be limited by any templates or rules, like Procrustean beds.
Loving the recent content. I've written some half songs and obscure compositions where I was just messing around, also have a whole bag of riffs. I recently got the songwriting course too and I love the mindset and approach you have to creativity.
This was THE most informative and funny "how to" guide ever. From someone who has gigs worth of garbage riffs and ideas, now I have a template!!! 🤣EXCELLENT!!!
*TREY:* sage advice against the perils of "riff salad", and instead, for great, simple songwriting. *SMASHING PUMPKINS:"* Nods, contemplatively, 🤔but then stands suddenly, with "PISTACHIO MEDLEY" saying "Hold my beeeeer!"
Hey Trey - what if you provided some templates to composition apps like Guitar Pro and whatnot, and maybe a few DAWs like PT? Basically, where all of the usual suspects for a rock/metal/pop band may go, and a bunch of markers/sections (eg: "chorus here")
Dude, for the first (maybe second?) time in 17 years of studying guitar I finally put together a guitar track! It sucks and it's in a weird exotic tonality, but it's finished! Can't wait to add the other instruments. Cheers!
I have been using a similar approach for years now, and written countless songs. Slight difference being that the standard structure I usually go for is intro (sometimes skip), verse 1, chorus, verse 2, chorus, bridge (often a two part), verse 3, chorus 2x. And since it's metal pretty much all of those parts are riffs (but usually ones that suggest a chord progression), breaks between the a verse and chorus will simply be the verse or chorus riff without vox. However, I make them all on the fly when I am writing the song, and often they tend to be variations. I like the three verse structure. Lyrically one can set the scene in the first verse, say something about what's happening in the second, then come to some kind of conclusion in the first. I moved into this style of songwriting from the more typical "riff salad" structure of a lot of extreme metal pretty much when I stopped working with live drummers in the classic get together in the rehearsal room type deal. Once it was a more production approach, it just becomes more natural to go for more solid and typical structures. Haven't really hoarded riffs for years, except on *very* rare occasions where a particularly interesting one pops out. However, when I was younger though I did that a lot and have a fair few cassettes stacked full of 'em. I reckon it would be very fun to use your exact structure suggested here and pull one of those old riffs out and build a song around that. :)
Making entire songs from riffs. That has been done literally quite a few times. To I think still popular examples are Lady Hawk taking a riff from Can't Stop and making Delirium, also Crazy Town taking, I think it was the second riff from Pretty Little Ditty and making Butterfly.
I have written songs using a slightly different version of this formula and it has worked out great whenever I played live. I thought back to some of my favorite songs from Pink Floyd's Comfortably Numb to Metallica's Master of Puppets. I used the classic song structure for a lot of my stuff, consisting of Intro(chorus or altered verse if used), Verse (where I like to start most off my songs), Chorus 1, Verse (either identical to the first or slightly different), Chorus 2 (identical or mostly identical to the first with the exception of one new layer), Solo/Bridge (depends on the song for this because NOT EVERY SONG NEEDS A SOLO!!!), Chorus, Outro (very identical to the intro if needed). I always knew this as the Grunge Songwriting Structure.
If making a song out if bunch of riffs is your thing, do it. Once you finish it then it's over with. You have done it rather than thinking of all the possible ways you could execute it. You can move on learning from each songs that you create. Music is and should be an impulsive art. There is no right or wrong. Each finished art is always the last compromise an artist has made. But the road is ahead for new adventures. Rock on
A good example of this subject for people to check out is Slipknot Surfacing…it’s essentially the same riff throughout but they do variations & change up the drum patterns.
Man, sometimes the universe just guides you to something you need. The previous video I watched in conjunction with this one. Time to get unstuck and write some mediocre completed songs. It reminds me of advice I've gotten about writing fiction, just get the 1st draft done! That's the hardest part, then rewrite it until it's good.
Hi man. I really like your channel about writing songs. What about writing more extreme metal genres like Thrash/Death Metal ? It is usually based on riffs. Anyway from your post I got that less is more !
So I've been loving all these songwriting vids and I'm really interested in the course - but for the price that it is I need to be sure it's for me before I'm willing to buy (soz Trey but I've got a house and dog to pay for and life is only getting more expensive). Would be great to get feedback from people who've bought the course about what it's like and how good it is. Don't really want to drop $400+ to find out it's not for me.
Take the 7 Day Riff-To-Song Challenge: bit.ly/7DAYRIFFTOSONG
I cant find where to sign up for this, the link works and brings me to the page but theres nothing to click on said page.
Dude absolutely amazing teaching with structure! Thank you !
I'm confused. After I play "the riff" and its variations 20 times in each section, my song is now 17 minutes long. Is that what we are going for?
yes you have done it, your Grammy is in the mail
@@treyxaviermusic But I love complex songs with many sequences. Am I defective?
Seriously. Why I just cannot listen or write songs how I fcking will from my reason? Music is not a science. It is art and it should not be limited by any templates or rules, like Procrustean beds.
@@zvjatouslawinc.7098 I guess it depends on whether other people will appreciate your art or not.
@@zvjatouslawinc.7098 You can write whatever you want but if you weren't writing amazing songs and winning song competitions for your million different chords and dozen time changes every measure by the time you were four the odds are good your efforts at writing complex music suck. Not everyone is going to be Mozart and not everyone enjoys listening to Frank Zappa. What he's talking about here is being a SUCCESSFUL musician. One a lot of people listen to. If you want to be that then you have to kill the ego and keep it simple. Or just do whatever you want and accept the fact you're probably going to be the only one who likes it. As far as your 'Procrustes bed' comment it's not about forced conformity. It's about the fact that music works the way it does because the mathematical concepts that allow music to be made at all ARE rigid. if you want something to sound good to most people you have to work within a certain framework. Yes-you can go outside of this framework to a degree (like with jazz for example) but if you go too far it just sounds like shit.
@@zvjatouslawinc.7098 well this is to get you just finishing a song, once you actually get good at simple songwriting u can go into the complex stuff
Just one riff. Like Close to the Edge by Yes.
Loving this shift in focus from gear to songwriting. Let's be honest here, modern metal guitar players don't need yet another demo of some overdrive boost or some modeling amp or sim. They need songwriting help. You can only do so much chugging on tight amps and writing ADD riffs. I feel like the song competition really exposed a huge problem with modern metal players. We've become nerds that only try to impress other nerds with our playing, tone, or production. But no one outside that bubble cares for any of that. Not saying to make top 40s pop music but definitely bring back proper songs, choruses, anthems, *tasteful* playing that workings in context with a song, etc.
it would be nice to be able to write a typical pop song, just say yes I can do it
@@xisotopex ...totally agree... 😂
"they were all FINISHED and PUT OUT"
Never have I felt more personally attacked.
When I wrote the script for this I was thinking "wait til Khristopher Komodoensis hears this"
I feel like this video is directed at me. I have 11 partials, Furthermore, I want all these songs to be bangers! I have never written a song in my life, and never tried until I started watching this channel.
Just get started, and don't worry if you don't start out great right out of the gate, or things won't turn out as you initially imagined them.
Perseverance & development will help you get there. It's just like practicing an instrument, the more you do it, the better you'll get at it.
@Willians Diaz ¡Te deseo la mejor de las suertes, amigo mío!
Yes! Thanks GitKlar, great advice.
I'm right there with you and I'm using this as a fire under my butt to get them things put together. Then when I play them for my family and friends and find out you know maybe it's missing something or you know I'll just use them as a producer
You’ve godda crawl before you can walk.. knocking out bangers off whip is rare.. also remember you can overwork a song and waste more time trying to tweet it when it could have been done already.
This is excellent advice. Maybe you already made a lyrics video and I haven't seen it... if not, let me add some thoughts on that.
1. Don't try to write the Sermon on the Mount. You're not saving the world with these words, you're just breaking down one basic little thought in your head. Pretentious lyrics sound... pretentious.
2. Explore your thought well, and sincerely, but also try to make it open to interpretation. People want to apply these words to themselves. If they can't, why would they listen? Also, cryptic lyrics can be cool, but don't make them hieroglyphic... don't go nuts with the metaphors.
3. Work out the rhythm of the SYLLABLES first, and limit yourself to as few as you need to carry the melody. Once you have the syllables blocked out, and the thought clearly in mind, words fall into place pretty easily. You can shoe-horn in extra syllables, or run longer than expected sometimes-that can be a cool effect, but don't overdo it.
Again, great video. Finished is MUCH better than perfect.
People saying pretentious sure are pretentious
The back half of the song is where I usually get stuck. I finish that 2nd chorus and think "Ok, what now? Bridge? Interlude? Solo? Breakdown?" and then "What order of the selected options would be most effective?"
Do the Van Halen Jump bridge type thing and combine it with a solo. Basically, whatever key you are in, combine the other chords you haven't used in the rest of your song. Listen to Jump and you will know what I mean. ruclips.net/video/097HgaI2EKQ/видео.html The relevant section I am talking about is a little more than half way through.
Bottom line is; you have to know the rules, before you break them.
All fax no printers
thats not strictly true. it does help though.
@@Jeremy-hx7zj it definitely is strictly true
@@SorooshMhs I broke lots of rules before I knew what they were
@@Jeremy-hx7zj music is like a language. Everyone gets their own spin eventually, but there's some basic vocabulary behind it. The way you learn it is up to you, and once you did, you don't think about it anymore.
Sure, you can make music without knowing theory, and still get good results. But at this point it's just a complete game of chance, and if you don't understand how it works, you'll have a much harder time working your next project.
And just as with anything else in life, not knowing something is not an advantage. In the best cases, it forces you to work harder, in the worst, you'll never get where you want to be. If the latter is true, it's time to do something about it.
I pretty much fucking despise when a song uses the same basic riff in the verse and chorus. It's lazy to me. It's entirely uninteresting to me. After a riff is played 4 times its time for another riff in almost any situation. Of course they should flow with each other and make sense together. And I tend to think if a singer can only figure out how to sing over a chorus of mindless 8th or 16th note chords (or whatever similarly feel-less approach to writing) then why are they even bothering with music?
I'm just shy of 40. But I grew up listening to guys like EVH, Jimmy Page, Toni Iommi, Ritchie Blackmore, and Alex Lifeson. There were plenty of riffs as choruses and plenty of singers could figure out how to sing over such things. And these are only a few examples. Are modern singers incapable of deciphering this skill?
I will say that the advice of using basic song structures is wholly worthwhile though.
Great vid man, production quality (visual & audio and everything) is f'in great right now. Super concise, thanks for sharing the knowledge of how to riff-to-song to the masses
Thanks dawg, I've been steadily working on my production value for the last year, good to know it's paying off!
I would have used a different visual for "hump", but that's just me !!
yeah but I wanna keep my channel hahahaha
A perfect example of having a riff but not knowing what to do with it is , Pneuma by Tool. Adam Jones had that main riff for over 20 yrs and the band could never write anything with it. Finally they do, and win a Grammy
That’s 7empest not Pneuma
@@trentkraemer7109 awww shit your so right dude
Criticize this song structure all you want, but it has yet to fail Judas priest. Their most brutal song, Painkiller, follows this down to the letter and it's amazing
The lyric part may well be the most difficult for most people...
@@Burnt_Gerbil Yes, you do. If nothing else, tell someone to fuck off in lyrical form.
This is true - it’s the hardest part for a lot of people. Which is why they need to start working on it right away. I don’t know any guitarists who are short on riffs, so quit writing riffs for the moment and start writing lyrics!
@@treyxaviermusic It's kinda the opposite for me: Writing lyrics isn't hard for me, I am a poet anyway, but I haven't picked up the guitar in months due to there being tonnes of stuff on my plate!
I don't even really get to read much. My leisure time mostly consists of leftist video essays or music related YT videos...
We write about living in Philly and all its chaos. Our two albums got some decent local traction. For most bands their audience will be local. Keep the topics local. Trey did a song review on one of our songs (Sincerely, Philly) where one of the hooks is "if you see me on the street don't talk to me .... ever." Trey made fun of it a little (in good fun) but that really is the vibe in Philly and it detonates for our audience. It goes over well at dirty bar and basement shows.
Not if your DogSmack!
Get away from me
Stay away from me
Get out of here
Keep your distance
Restraining order
And so on and so on
I hate her tracks 1-13
Dangit, you're temping to me actually do somethin and get it done!
do eet
This is fucking cool!
All my tunes come out a week in the back of the fridge haggis, but I keep eatin it cause it’s that or more riff salad and stale noodles.
Form a band that plays to people!
been listening to a lot of the band Turnstile lately, and I think they write some damn good songs, and when I listen, it all makes sense.... there isnt any crazy music theory behind them that I dont understand, or ridiculous chop but I still cant do what they do...
I swear I watch this video every day to get the idiocy of my pride out of the way that I think I’m going to be the next Misha Mansoor tomorrow morning
My tip. When you first wake up in the morning, pick up a crappy acoustic guitar, and do not think. Just play for 5 minutes. Stop. Chances are “something”- maybe just an interesting chord change- will be left on your plate. Later on you can play around with it. Have fun with it. Try this or try paying the Xavier fund to get you goin.’
This whole video summed up is, okay here's how you write a song. Write a song. There you've written a song....
Speaking of Riff Salad, Check out that song by Sloth from San Antonio, it’s pretty good as well lol 🤘
What kind of camera/lens/lighting setup are you using nowadays? I've been watching your channel for 3 or 4 years now and your video quality has always been pretty solid, but over the last year or so it seems like it has gone up to a whole 'nother level. This video especially looks super clean and the background LEDs look fantastic without being distracting. Keep it up!
Thanks, and also nice name! Sony FX3, Sigma 35mm ART, and a GVM key light with an Aputure diffuser. I’ve got a whole video coming talking about the new studio setup where I’ll go into detail
So you say that a song must not contain a part thats probably not gonna repeat in the whole song.but what about the song prisoners in paradise(europe)its intro is never repeated in the whole song yet its a great song
Trey's pissed. Reviewing lame songs got him angry.
People keep saying they don’t know how to write a song but they haven’t just. MADE A SONG
Uh, what's a riff? Tried to find it.....but it's not come out of the closet yet.......
Metallica needs to see this video. They have skipped this lesson for the last 20 years.
Step 5 is my problem... can't get out of my head and write lyrics.
00:45 gojira_type_riff_three hahahaha i can SOO relate :D
The template is every blink song ever.
To sum that up: have a Story, write down the emotions in each Part your trying to express. Write riffs to that and the most importain thing, with using completly diffrent riffs is, to makethe transistions right. Thats simply it.
Great video not ground breaking stuff but simplicity is the best really dig your chanel thanks for bitchen content
Damn, guilty as mentioned. The attic is full of dusty riffs...
It would be great if you could make a version of this for more complex progressive song structures that go well beyond pop structures!
Reminds me of the old wisdom from music school decades ago: "how do you write a great song? Write 50 mediocre ones first."
One thing I've found really helpful for trying to finish songs is to take what I call the "Iron Maiden approach", although it's really just NWOBHM in general. And that's to make your riff the intro/outro, then switch to regular chords and/or power chords for the verse/chorus.
Think of the song "Wasted Years". Great song, right? Well the intro and bridge are the riff, the verse is just the Maiden standard A string power chords, and the chorus is actually strumming full open chords. If Iron Maiden can make that work, then why can't us normal people do the same
I have this theory that WE the creators sometimes hear something almost subliminally in our riffs that make them coherent and cool, but when played to someone else, its meaningless.... we have to find a way to turn what we are "hearing" when we listen to our riff into something that someone else "hears" also... does that make sense?
I've honestly been putting some of these things into practice as I've been writing my next album. Getting more mileage out of reimagining the same riffs is something I've been working on a lot with some of this new material I've been picking away at. Thanks for all the great tips, Trey. :)
You also need the pick of destiny.
Was just suggested your channel for songwriting by RUclips. Really good stuff and inspiration. Enjoy you video style and humor as well. Subscribed! Thanks for sharing!
But I mean come on, yall don't like just chuggin riffs in the basement all day?
what if the riff I started riff is a chorus type riff? what would be the best way to convert it to a verse riff?
You just wrote a Nickelback song.
I have about 2000 riffs and less than 10 songs recorded :)
I have 37 riffs, all of them seem to be meant to be instrumentals, but no finished tune.
10 different ideas in one song. sooo kim dracula? lol
You haven’t heard Mr. Bungle lol
Hey bro, I just watched your video today because I needed some ideas on how to turn this riff I had into a song. Well, after taking some notes in my notebook and applying my own version of a “strong structure” I now have a 3:30 minute song written out in less than thirty minutes. THANK YOU!
he’ll yes bröther
How about a video on coming up with your own riffs?
Trey's persona is basically your friends older brother who is really good and is begrudgingly giving you a guitar lesson
Trey wants you to play the same riff 3 frets higher
How much "currency" do you have trey?
This may have taken inspiration from many of the song contest entries :D
Just a bit hahaha
prove it. where is banging song?
I take tears for fears and add distortion hahahahahaha
Inviting people to make empty, uninteresting, interchangeable entertainment, using the same things we've already heard 1000 times, rather than inviting them to make unique masterpieces, and basically art, is the worst insult you can do to art. Entertainment is the cancer of art. Shame on you.
This is for beginners, so they can just finish their first song. Trying to make a masterpiece for your first song is a recipe for disaster. You’d be a terrible teacher
Are you afraid of your boldness ?
I have hundreds of half-baked song ideas recorded, and it got so overwhelming trying to believe I would ever turn them into actual songs that I stopped recording and just play for myself. Challenge accepted, Trey.
Challenge excepted. 😅
So cool
Good content here
Thanks
Love the tough love lol
I would love to see a song structure break down of Rainbow in the Dark
But I love complex songs with many sequences. Am I defective?
Seriously. Why I just cannot listen or write songs how I fcking will from my reason? Music is not a science. It is art and it should not be limited by any templates or rules, like Procrustean beds.
You can do whatever you want, no one is stopping you
Loving the recent content. I've written some half songs and obscure compositions where I was just messing around, also have a whole bag of riffs. I recently got the songwriting course too and I love the mindset and approach you have to creativity.
I feel attacked XD
Thanxs papa trey trey
Dang this makes me want to learn guitar! 🙃
Also surprised this isn't a competition with a sweet gear prize.
I think I learned my lesson on that one hahaha
@@treyxaviermusic That is totally fair.
@@treyxaviermusic You could restrict it to X amount of entries. Like 100 or whatever it is you can mentally handle.
Ok. I'm in.
Tell that do John Petrucci on Endless Sacrifice
I hung out with him 3 days ago, should’ve said this before then 🤷🏼♂️
If we buy your course to we have access forever and will there be updates to the course free of charge etc…?
Yes indeed!
I want to be Plini, can you make a music course that will turn me into Plini... ...kk thxbai
Why do you want to be an artist that already exists
3:36 lol
For the Bridge/solo, see also Breakdown!!!!
True this
riff salad!
This was THE most informative and funny "how to" guide ever. From someone who has gigs worth of garbage riffs and ideas, now I have a template!!! 🤣EXCELLENT!!!
*TREY:* sage advice against the perils of "riff salad", and instead, for great, simple songwriting.
*SMASHING PUMPKINS:"* Nods, contemplatively, 🤔but then stands suddenly, with "PISTACHIO MEDLEY" saying "Hold my beeeeer!"
Knaw-ledge I much appreciate the knaw-ledge. Thank you 🤘🤘🤘
Thank you Trey
I get the concept of riff salad, but damm I love riff salad.
I guess I won't be going anywhere hahaha
Hey Trey - what if you provided some templates to composition apps like Guitar Pro and whatnot, and maybe a few DAWs like PT? Basically, where all of the usual suspects for a rock/metal/pop band may go, and a bunch of markers/sections (eg: "chorus here")
Dude, for the first (maybe second?) time in 17 years of studying guitar I finally put together a guitar track!
It sucks and it's in a weird exotic tonality, but it's finished! Can't wait to add the other instruments.
Cheers!
I have been using a similar approach for years now, and written countless songs. Slight difference being that the standard structure I usually go for is intro (sometimes skip), verse 1, chorus, verse 2, chorus, bridge (often a two part), verse 3, chorus 2x. And since it's metal pretty much all of those parts are riffs (but usually ones that suggest a chord progression), breaks between the a verse and chorus will simply be the verse or chorus riff without vox.
However, I make them all on the fly when I am writing the song, and often they tend to be variations. I like the three verse structure. Lyrically one can set the scene in the first verse, say something about what's happening in the second, then come to some kind of conclusion in the first.
I moved into this style of songwriting from the more typical "riff salad" structure of a lot of extreme metal pretty much when I stopped working with live drummers in the classic get together in the rehearsal room type deal. Once it was a more production approach, it just becomes more natural to go for more solid and typical structures.
Haven't really hoarded riffs for years, except on *very* rare occasions where a particularly interesting one pops out. However, when I was younger though I did that a lot and have a fair few cassettes stacked full of 'em. I reckon it would be very fun to use your exact structure suggested here and pull one of those old riffs out and build a song around that. :)
*Reads title*, Jesus Christ I'm a riff hoarder. I've got like 39 partial songs on my hard drive.
Making entire songs from riffs. That has been done literally quite a few times. To I think still popular examples are Lady Hawk taking a riff from Can't Stop and making Delirium, also Crazy Town taking, I think it was the second riff from Pretty Little Ditty and making Butterfly.
you got me with the "crappy riff idea" into "smash mouts masterpiece" that sir was comedic genius AND truth...
You're pulling off a "Shia LaBeouf"
JUST DO IT!
I have written songs using a slightly different version of this formula and it has worked out great whenever I played live. I thought back to some of my favorite songs from Pink Floyd's Comfortably Numb to Metallica's Master of Puppets. I used the classic song structure for a lot of my stuff, consisting of Intro(chorus or altered verse if used), Verse (where I like to start most off my songs), Chorus 1, Verse (either identical to the first or slightly different), Chorus 2 (identical or mostly identical to the first with the exception of one new layer), Solo/Bridge (depends on the song for this because NOT EVERY SONG NEEDS A SOLO!!!), Chorus, Outro (very identical to the intro if needed). I always knew this as the Grunge Songwriting Structure.
If making a song out if bunch of riffs is your thing, do it. Once you finish it then it's over with. You have done it rather than thinking of all the possible ways you could execute it. You can move on learning from each songs that you create. Music is and should be an impulsive art. There is no right or wrong. Each finished art is always the last compromise an artist has made. But the road is ahead for new adventures.
Rock on
For me I don’t have a drummer or a bassist or a singer and I find it really annoying because I do all of the guitar parts and I kinda just fix them
A good example of this subject for people to check out is Slipknot Surfacing…it’s essentially the same riff throughout but they do variations & change up the drum patterns.
Man, sometimes the universe just guides you to something you need. The previous video I watched in conjunction with this one. Time to get unstuck and write some mediocre completed songs.
It reminds me of advice I've gotten about writing fiction, just get the 1st draft done! That's the hardest part, then rewrite it until it's good.
Hi man. I really like your channel about writing songs. What about writing more extreme metal genres like Thrash/Death Metal ? It is usually based on riffs. Anyway from your post I got that less is more !
Omg I needed to hear this! Afternoon of perfecting riffs yet nothing really productive.
So I've been loving all these songwriting vids and I'm really interested in the course - but for the price that it is I need to be sure it's for me before I'm willing to buy (soz Trey but I've got a house and dog to pay for and life is only getting more expensive). Would be great to get feedback from people who've bought the course about what it's like and how good it is.
Don't really want to drop $400+ to find out it's not for me.
Sweet, I just signed up for the challenge. Thanks.