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S3 E12. Testing different modifications to the intercooler on the Kubota turbo diesel Saturn.
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- Опубликовано: 22 апр 2023
- Season 3 Episode 12. We take a second look at the intercooler on the turbo diesel Saturn and test a few ideas on how to bring the temperature down.
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Every Sunday I wake up knowing it's gonna be a good day because of a new video from our friend Jimbo!!!
Right?!
Even before I here the beep at the beginning of the video I have already hit the like button!
This + Project Farm are my new Saturday morning cartoons. Just on a different day...and not always morning...
I manage to keep forgetting, and then i get a pleasant surprise when i go to RUclips
Try a water spray/mist on the intercooler like on some Subarus. Can be done with the windscreen washer parts so basically free
The intercooler is to lower intake temperature, that in return lowers the EGT on a diesel it allows you to add more fuel. So it's not going to directly make power but it will allow you to make more power by the ability to add more fuel.
Exactly so ADD MORE FUEL and then you get your POWERRRR in this 3 cylinder turbo charged diesel lawnmower go kart Saturn coupe
Also, this engine was designed to run at 75% rpm under hard load for long periods. What they are doing here could be improved with a different cam. I really like the work they do---thorough and technical. Top Notch!
@@otosere2857 they could try to advance the injection pump by a gear tooth, although thats sketchy and imprecise
@@butstough
They did advance the fuel timing already, they also increased the fuel pressure. To the point they don't want to burn the engine down. And it did help the power. I assume they don't want to ruin the engine just because they can. I think they want as much power and fuel mileage as they can get without hurting the engine.
Yeah, I do kinda feel we've been here before with this. Expecting a performance boost without tuning to take advantage of the performance boost enabling tweak is.... Optimistic.
Cooler intake temperatures don't make power by themselves. You need more fuel to take advantage of the denser air.
embrace the scoop! It's the embodiment of every early 2000s kid with their hand me down 1.9 sc. Let the inner ricer out, embrace it.
The intercooler probably does its job like its supposed to, but you'll need more fuel to compensate for the increased air density
Came here to say this!! Cooler intake air means cooler turbine inlet temps.
Yes, but adding more fuel would probably make more power anyways, of course at the cost of less efficiency and higher EGTs. I suppose adjusting the fuel settings to maintain the same air/fuel ratio with and without the intercooler and, if necessary, adjusting the boost for the same manifold pressure to compensate for the pressure drop through the intercooler would be the most fair way to do the test.
@@averyalexander2303 good comments here.
@@averyalexander2303 Completely true! The intercooler also increased the amount of turbo lag the system has, so more boost to compensate for pressure loss and volume increase is only fair
The point isn't more power, though. The turbo exists just to keep the temperature inside the engine down, so adding more fuel would be counterproductive
Bah, ignore the ones who criticize. Clearly they don't get the gist of the channel.
You guys embody the 80/20 rule: get 80% of the results with 20% of the work (and/or money). On that, you succeed marvelously.
It is Sunday and a new ROBOT CANTINA video is out.... Heavenly Bliss makes my week ahead...💖💖💖💖😇😇😇😇
I believe that you are forgetting the biggest benefit of using the intercooler>>> decreasing the exhaust gas temperature !!! And when that happened, you were tickled pink about it and glad it improved the chance of solving that problem. It also helped to increase the boost from the turbo.
Just a friendly reminder from a follower of this project. I like it a lot and wish there were more people on youtube that did these type of things.😃👍
And (of course) installing the fans to pull air into the intercooler from under the ram air scoop is the way to go (puller fans). There may be some benefit from reversing the fans (pusher fans) and trying the cowl induction scoop again, but you have the final say on that. It's your experiment and video series.
If you really don't want the hood scoop, you could try using something like those flexible dryer ducts to scoop up the air at the front bumper towards the underside of the intercooler. The spacing might've just created enough space to do it. It would make plan C work better I think.
I also think it needs more fuel to really benefit from the denser air.
Thanks for the fun experiment!
Epic pass and love the COW induction system that was tested. 😂😂
Sunday morning cartoons! I mean RUclips!
Like others have said, the idea of an intercooler on a diesel is to lower egt. This, in turn, could be used to add more fuel for better performance or to use as a safety buffer for egt. I actually like the foward facing scoop as it is reminiscent of the WRX.
I think you could install the fans over the intercooler without turning them on to see which way the airflow makes them rotate
I'd be curious to see this as well. My guess is air is getting sucked downwards because of the air dam installed on the front of the car results in less air under the car, but my intuition could be wrong. I thought the sideways scoop would work better than it did. :)
That's actually a solid idea, I'm here for it
@@alskjflaksjdflakjdf generally speaking I think most automobiles designed In recent history end up with a low pressure zone under the car anyways and that's what assists at speed with removing heat from the engine bay. So I'm with you.
People have suggested tuft-testing his aerodynamics and that would work for his intercooler, too.
Pack intercooler with dry ice. That should cool it down a lot.
Skipping along @ 65 mph! I am impressed!
This channel reminds me of something cool I would have watched on PBS back in 2000. it's a nice break. I like your projects too. I really want a 3cyl diesel in a car now
One thing that didn’t get tried, that I’m certain would have created the best results… a “RAM AIR” sticker… seriously, how could something so obvious have not been considered. I’ve been a subscriber, liker, & commenter since the early Insight days. I’m grateful for your willingness to share your talents with the world.
Absolutely love this series!! It will be sad to see the Saturn go to the scrap yard it’s almost like a staple of the channel but it will be making the ultimate sacrifice
The car runs and drives!
However, I am sure that he will save all of his modifications, so only a shell with a hole in the hood will be junked.
That is going to confuse scavengers! :)
been watching this series for a while.
dont get rid of her. lemme buy her!
When Chevrolet first introduced half ton diesel trucks my uncle a retired truck driver bought one. They were horrible, shortly after he bought a four cylinder perkins diesel and transmission from a wrecked bread truck. We put it in a 70's GMC four door truck. It stuck out of the hood but would run about 75 on the highway when you got it in high gear. We got stopped several times by OHP just so they could look at it. Great channel, please continue.
One thing that can help the intercooler cool even more is using cast aluminum pipe on the HOT side.
I discovered this inadvertently when I was modernizing the intercooler pipe on my 1990 Dodge Cummins (It actually has an old, factory-fit Banks intercooler!). The only pipe piece that I could find for my 3" dia., 6"-long 45 deg. bend requirement was in cast aluminum.
As we all know, aluminum dissipates heat, and I can definitely feel the heat coming off of this piece of pipe before the air even gets into the intercooler.
With intake temps of around 120F, there won't be too much gain with an intercooler. However, if you are able to run significantly higher boost pressures the temps will be much much higher, and inter cooling becomes an advantage. My Cummins 6.7, stock fuel settings at 40+ PSI boost will run in excess of 300+ degrees on the compressor side. The intercooler will drop the temp to around 20-40 degrees above ambient temp. That's a huge improvement.
Another fantastic episode!
I am also 99,7% certain, that painting that Saturn all pink with golden stripes would make it 0,3% faster.
Bravo sir I've been watching your channel for a while now and just as the rest of RUclips has changed due to this new culture so have you, it is nice how you handle criticism and I love seeing how the channel is evolving, I always enjoy seeing all your projects, I especially liked when after I told you about the mini roots blower back on the diesel you tried it, sorry it didn't work out, still glad I was a part of you experiment, I always look forward to your next videos
I meant to say this last week and it's true again this week, the testing is really well done here. You are eliminating as many variables as testing space, time and budget allow. Good work. I vote we renew the Saturn's lease for another season even if it doesn't have the same motor.
I think the truck you passed was a paid actor, just kidding, probably Carl looking at his fences.
This has been one of my favourite items to follow, please keep up the fun stuff. Very much appreciated
It breaks my heart to think this Saturn is destined for the scrap yard. My daughter has a Saturn just like this with an automatic and it has been a decent first car. Michigan rust is eating her frame away. She watches your videos and wanted to do the same thing with her car. Thanks for the videos. Looking forward to the next adventure.
A gasket between the hood and the intercooler would be interesting to see.
Yes, the ram air scoop orientation with a shroud to force all that air through the intercooler and not allow any to go around it would be a great test to do.
I thought the intercooler looked weird when it wasn't flush or parallel with the hole. You are right, a gasket would help, but it wouldn't make it look better! :D
Good thing he covered it! :D
With the hood scoop adding ducting and gaskets would decrease his temps even further. Subaru and most top mount intercoolers with a scoop use such assemblies.
@@802Garage Yes it is one of the classic blunders Subaru folks make; they'll upgrade the intercooler but not adapt the shroud to match and a bunch of the air will just escape around the intercooler instead of going through it.
@@802Garage @RobotCantina it's a shorter video than most but we want to see the hood gasket yet added to the intercooler please.
Although I do like the special lathed parts the highlight of Jimbo's engineering in this episode is the excellent duct tapery
As the mighty Red Green put it... "The handyman's secret weapon"
1. I am entertained good job!
2. Your process seems logical to me.
3. hang up your welding helmet so you don't cut your little noggin on metal shavings.
4. Party on!
Who knew the Saturn could take someone to gapplebee's. I thought it was some kind of farm equipment of first watch, but when Jimbo hit the replay I was shocked.
Turn it sideways😂 I love your friend! Another fun episode. I’m looking forward to the return of the predator insight.
I had my fingers crossed for the Cowl Induction Saturn! 🤣 Great episode!
Feeling blessed, never stressed. Got that sunshine on my Sunday best. THANKS JIMBO for another great video
ROBOT CANTINA we love these videos 👍👍👍 please keep them rolling,
Sunday is fun day and the entertainment fantastic.👈👈👈
Hi Jimbo, in Germany there is the following saying: "It's not broken, it just works differently" !! 🤣👍Have a nice Sunday, thx for the new video and greetings from Berlin ✌
I mean.... I was watching the video where you were installing the intercooler and you referenced the placement to a Subaru WRX and my first thought was "yeah, but they've got the hood scoop forcing air through it" I feel like it was such a noticeable difference in numbers and the fact that electric fans can and will eventually fail that the decision is a no-brainer. Not to mention (dead horse) you would be installing plastic fans over the hottest part of the engine. Plus, the hood scoop looks fuggin' rad! Love the content RC crew, thanks so much for making it!
love the content and the fact you actually try it out instead of telling us what the internet says to do
Robot Cantina goes great with Sunday morning breakfast.
Well said, and so true!!
On a hot summer day with 15lbs of boost, I have had IAT in the 180°s pre intercooler. Most of the boats I work on that get run hard have twin 24l v12 diesels with a tripple turbo settup. The turbo actually burns the paint on the compressor housing just from the amount of air being compressed. That little turbo isn't really compressing enough air to make a difference. Yeah, every little bit helps.
Would love to see this thing on a dyno! Love the build! Ive watched the whole series! Keep up the good work!
I really enjoy this content. It's become my Sunday morning routine to sit down with a cup of coffee and watch what you've come up with this week. Just wanted to say thanks for doing what you're doing.
literally exactly what im doing right now lol
Same here. Cup of coffee and a Robot Cantina video. Best way to start your Sunday. 😎
I'm glad some of us are all on the same page. Coffee in the Robot Cantina. Lol
The results were surprising. I thought Plan C would yield the best results. And Plan B was much better than expected. Very interesting.
That said, I put a fan on the intercooler in my Jetta TDI and it made a big difference! Especially in traffic. But traffic doesn't seem to be an issue for you. 😎
I thought plan b would make a slight vacuum and cause air to be pulled through the intercooler.
This weirdo again?! Do you just wander around being weird?!
Cowl induction works because the engine creates more negative pressure than the air around the hood. In this application, there's actually positive pressure below the intercooler, and that's actually drawing air in through the grille, which is being heated up in the engine bay and exhausted through the reverse-facing hood scoop.
Holy cow! You PASSED somebody!!!
Man just put the ram air hood It don't look that bad just get one from autozone. No need to put extra stuff that take extra power. Keep it simple. Glad you back on the Sunday schedule I'll be waiting next Sunday.
“Spring is the time of plans and projects.”
Previously I would have laughed at you for using duct tape but I was watching F1 last year and saw the Ferrari F1 team using clear duct tape over the panel gaps in their car body, now I commend your commitment to performance.
I remember Jimbo! The refresher sure is good though 😊
Your data is really good for learning stuff
Have you seen ROBOT CANTINA'S latest short video? Check it out!
The necessity of an intercooler is directly proportional to how much boost you make, thanks to the ideal gas law / adiabatic heating. If you were running the boost seen on some engines (2-4 bar or 30-60 psi) the air would become significantly hotter than ambient simply from being compressed in the turbo. But you're not even breaking 1 atmosphere, so there's very little heat generated.
There's still unwanted heat, both from the turbo housing and the compression you are doing, but the intercooler isn't nearly as important as if you cranked up to boost.
So don't worry about the intercooler unless you plan on cranking the boost. This will be a much more important at 30 psi.
My brain started tingling watching the scoop test
Drinko de My-Ohhh is coming up! Bring on the adult beverages! Wink...wink!
Keep going jimbo...Every one of us is different in some way, but for those of us who are more different, we have to put more effort into convincing the less different that we can do the same thing they can, just differently.🚙🚙🚙
Those who matter don't mind, and those who mind don't matter. WE LOVE ROBOT CANTINA👍👍
@@ocdman202 Well said, and so true!!
Looks like a good time to swing by and get a chance to review the album proof of the day off and that's what I was thinking about huevo.
Here's my comment for the algorithm.
Diesels are reliant on heat, its what makes them operate. During the winter and late fall months I usually unplug the cooling fans on my jetta, seems to drive much better regulating its own operating temp. Sometimes it gets a little too cold down into the 20's that when you stop at a street light, engine temp will drop then the car trips itself into warming back up and the RPM's raise up to try and keep itself warm. I end up loosing fuel mileage keeping the cooling fans plugged in during winter temps.
This was an exciting video to see for a new viewer!
However I will vouch for that little diesel and say fans or cooling solutions for diesels are not always necessary unless ambient temps are above 75 degrees, or its an engine the size of a Cat C15 doing heavy hauling.
Your channel is great and inspiring. Its so cool to put a small diesel engine into an cheap and ugly car. My son doesn´t understand. Guess 32 years is way too young to feel the magnificence of your work.
Have you seen ROBOT CANTINA'S latest short video? Check it out!
The ram air scoop needs to have a higher profile to get into the airstream. Try taping short lengths of yarn on the hood to visualize the air flow.
Tuft-testing is always good, but this is how car manufacturers have done it for decades, and it is appropriate for much-larger engines than this.
It would take longer to test than to implement and his regular camera setup would work.
Someone suggested tuft-testing to see which way the air is flowing on the intercooler, but since the scoop worked best facing forward, arguably the air is flowing down.
@@drippingwax He could make a much higher scoop twice as high as his first one.
@@tihzho He could make ten different hood scoops and test them.
If you want airflow across a radiator you need to have an effective pressure difference across it. As is, the hood hole will likely act as an air outlet since its in a low pressure zone and you are probably allowing more than stock pressure build up in the engine bay past that small radiator (if you haven't shrouded it that is). Closing off the intake hole a bit might make the ram air setup more efficient (and the other radiator too).
Enough regurgitating Julien Edgar knowledge for now, am enjoying your series a lot so far.
This car needs a Viking funeral when it is done. Either that or someone shouting "WITNESS ME!"
good cup of coffee and ROBOT CANTINA, Sunday morning heaven....
Well said, and so true!!
@@mommapanda5736 ROBOT CANTINA we love these videos 👍👍👍 please keep them rolling,
Sunday is fun day and the entertainment fantastic.👈👈👈
@@ocdman202 Have you seen ROBOT CANTINA'S latest short video? Check it out!
Sunday morning☕️ and science.
I thought the scoop would lower it a few degrees, but it was surprised to see how much difference the small scoop made. Congratulations on the pass🚚🏎🏁. speed and power.
You could paint a small truck on the door to commemorate the pass, aka fighter planes 🤣. One of the best channels on yt.
It makes perfect sense that "plan B" worked so well. You said the intercooler didn't provide any performance increase, but I think you might be overlooking something. I've found that, for every 1 degree decrease in intake temp the exhaust temp also (usually) decreases by 1 degree. You had issues with exhaust temps in previous videos. The ram air scoop decreased intake temps by 13 degrees. Did you notice a corresponding reduction in exhaust temps (Maybe not the full 13 degrees)? That might allow for some adjustment of the injector pump and/or you can push the engine a bit harder on acceleration.
The fans should yield similar results as the scoop but I think it goes without saying the pushing air though from the engine bay will increase intake temps.
Great videos! I always enjoy seeing what contraption / combination you'll come up with.
You have me looking forward to Sunday so I can see your latest video. I can only imagine how much time you spend making every video. Thanks! Phil
I like when you slip into the How It's Made voice. Anyway fun to see what you're up to.
Word cannot EXPLAIN how much I love this series! Will you try and setup a water/methanol injection system to see the cooling benefits?
i second that notion (you can proably use the wiper fluid reservoir and pump with a check valve to deliver the methanol )
Skip the water, double up the methanol!!
bruh he said multiple times that cooling the air doesn’t benefit this engine. how deaf are you
@@benjamin8981 Intake air temps are specifically whats being tested in the video and what Robot Cantina is doing to lower iats is redirecting airflow across his intercooler.
What you are refering is Cantina saying the engine does not producing much coolant temp in the video, which has nothing to do with this comment, whatsoever.
Water/meth lowers intake air temps which is specifically regarding what the whole topic of the video is about.
Instead of hating, pay more attention.
@@madmod 2:33 11:30
thank you for work! lol cannot believe the performance you are getting out of that Kubota given it's origins.
Well said, and so true!!
I was waiting for the scoop to be an official USPS APPROVED mailbox.
I keep a look out for deer when you're driving!
Having seen wind-tunnel test results, cfd simulations, and testing from lots of people obsessed with fuel economy, I've learned that there's an area of high pressure on the hood just in front of the windshield when the car is moving at speed, and that if there's just a hole in the middle or back of the hood, air tends to flow down into the engine bay rather than up out of it.
This makes me believe that without any scoop in place, the air was pushing down through the intercooler instead of up through it.
So I predict that with no air scoop, the fans pulling air down will be more effective than the ones pushing air up out of the engine bay. Or it'll be too small an effect for you to measure reliably.
Have you seen ROBOT CANTINA'S latest short video? Check it out!
Hay Jimbo, thanks for another interesting and informative video. Don’t get beat down by the negative comments and ‘know it alls’, the silent majority appreciate everything you do!
11:48 Hypothetically putting a huge hood scoop on the car would make some difference, particularly with the car's top speed because of aerodynamics. Yeah, I know, you are really talking about power output. I just happen to be literally minded and hopelessy pedantic. I appreciate how much thought and effort you put into building and testing low powered cars.
There is a bubble of stagnant air in front of most windshields that just kills the ''suction'' effect from under the hood.....I used string taped on my Jeep hood to do this test for vents I added and was surprised.
Another great video!
The cowl induction scoop needed to be extended to almost the base of the screen to tap into the pressure zone there.
I liked the Ram induction scoop, you could also have ducted the base of the cooler to the bumper inlet if you don't want to run a scoop.
Really enjoying the series thanks for all the effort.
Have you seen ROBOT CANTINA'S latest short video? Check it out!
Always pat your projects for best results.
got to love a hood scoop, plus fans to-boot, your gota put a fiber glass super scoop on, oh yes you're scrapping the car, hopefully on another future project then,thoughrouly enjoyed this series.
Glue a small freezer to the rear deck lid, modify a weed-eater so that it pumps water (roof mount the pumping system), and then mount the intercooler inside of a large hood-mounted ice chest. Plumb the whole thing with PEX. Just spray paint the whole mess up using the Krylon Camo system so that it is virtually invisible.
Wiper-mounted dual intercoolers is also something that seems feasible.
Optimizing the turbo temp isn't just about possible power output, but the intake air temp directly correlates with the exhaust temperature.
That 50F reduction helped EGTs. I'm sure optimizing the temperature for another, I'd hazard a guess, 15-20F maximum, won't mean much of anything, but the input>output relationship of an intercooler isn't so simple anyways. Higher loads, and higher ambients, will allow the intercooler to dump more waste heat (up to it's thermal equilibirum limit). Just for easy example, that 50F during colder times might be as much as 75F during the height of Summer. An optimized placement, heat shielding, airflow and routing might allow 100F or more turbo out > intercooler >intake in reduction. This would make a vast difference during a 95F day as compared to a 60F day. The absolute temperatures matter just as much as the power density gained, and the absolute temperatures have an effect on part lifespans as well.
Just my two cents.
I randomly caught you in early season 1 and have been hooked since. Keep up the great videos!
Have you seen ROBOT CANTINA'S latest short video? Check it out!
Compound turbos!! Will really wake up that engine at low RPMs!!!
“And, some duct tape for aerodynamics” - Funny!
I love how many people are saying you need to add more fuel, when the point is to lower exhaust temperature.
“The capacity to blunder slightly is the real marvel of DNA. Without this special attribute, we would still be anaerobic bacteria and there would be no music.”
― Lewis Thomas, Lives of a Cell, The
I honestly love how the ram air scoop looks (in theorey, I'm trying to imagine a more proper-looking setup haha). Reminds me of those cool little kei cars with top mounted intercoolers and tiny off-center hood scoops
The fun thing is that the air isn't being drawn into the hood scoop, it's being pulled out. The high pressure area right outside of the scoop is forcing the low pressure air inside the engine bay to move out.
Cowl induction is just that, induction. Meant to create a low pressure differential area for a NA engine to pull cooler air from.
But I'm here for watching you attach PC fans to a car.
I think it'd help to put some adhesive foam around the intercooler to force the air that enters it directly through to the hole in the hood. It'd basically be like ducting. I have an old Corvette that has foam like that under the hood to ensure air goes through the radiator and not around/over it instead.
I'd expect it to make zero real world difference but ensuring the air you do get is forced through the intercooler would at least be a nice "fit and finish" aspect to the design.
Gaskets are good.
It may not look good but you can’t argue with how good it worked. Just paint it red like the car and then it won’t look too stupid lmao! Great video…..wanna see the Honda
Have you seen ROBOT CANTINA'S latest short video? Check it out!
My experience adding a front mounted intercooler to a non intercooled 2.0L turbodiesel was from 90hp/177nm to 98hp/200nm measured on a dyno. Before the install, it could not spin the tires in 2nd gear on gravel, but after that, it could. Also fuel economy was better. 0-96kmh was so so similar to the butt dyno, but from 70 to 110kmh had a better feel for overtaking
My next car was a 2005 Nissan X-trail with a 2.2 YD22 turbodiesel and top mounted intercooler.
The bonnet/hood inner liner acted as a scoop. Intercooler and the bonnet had enough clearance that the air scoop vent from the front edge to a rubber sealed intercooler cup.
Been following from the start, in love with this project
I kinda figured the ram air orientation of the scoop would provide the best figures, and I was right. It worked pretty darn well! I'm definitely interested to see how the fans work out! 😎
My highlight on this Episode is when the Saturn pass the other Car ^^👍
The slow truck that you passed was a plant! Either that or it couldn't get into second gear. LOL
Nice. Looks like plan B works the best. Subawoo has been doing it for years!
I foresee a possible problem with the fans, its a good idea however the incoming air could spin them outside of there specs and destroy them. Anyway I enjoy this channel very much and hope to see a lot more content like this. Thank you.
anyone complaining about the intercooler placement has never seen a stock turbo diesel before... that said though, behind the bumper would be better (in most cases)
Coffee, robot cantina, and a beautiful Sunday morning.
Well said, and so true!!
Subaru has used the top mounted intercooler design for quite some time and they use a ram air style scoop as well as some additional under-hood shrouding to direct air through the intercooler. There was also some models where they added a sprayer system that allowed for water to be sprayed onto the intercooler for additional thermal energy dissipation.
Thanks for the video, Sunday morning wouldn't be complete without your videos. 👍
Well said, and so true!!
I thought passing the truck was an optical illusion until you replayed it, and now I'm sure it was
Heating the intake air makes sense given that diesels use the heat of compression to ignite the fuel, so starting from a higher initial temp just raises the final temp a few degrees making ignition more positive.
Ram air ram air !! Yes hood scoopy thanks bro