Great video, Gilbert! The Victory at Sea variant, published by Avalon Hill, came in an envelope (no box) and included the paper map, variant counters (e.g. Italian frogmen) and the rules. I had not seen any video about the game. You just sold it to me! Purchased at Amazon. Cheers!
Hi Joe. The product you mention was actually "War at Sea 2", designed by Paul Kaster and Alan R Moon (I still have my copy). Richard Hamblen published a variant in the General magazine entitled "Victory at Sea" whereby he combined the War at Sea and Victory in the Pacific games into a single global ww2 naval campaign. Love your channel and tips about creating your own counters by the way! Cheers.
@@XLEGION1 Hello again Gilbert. See my reply to Joe below. L2 (Lg2?) was a boxed game, basically a new edition of the envelope variant " War at Sea 2" by Avalon Hill. One change was that the L2 ships had "raider" versions on the back of the ship counters, just like in Victory in the Pacific. I recall reading the plan for L2 was to release a version of Victory in the Pacific which could be combined with their Victory at Sea game to create a global ww2 strategic naval game. Unfortunately I believe the company folded or went out of business before their Pacific version could be published. I threw most of my L2 version out as the board was badly warped, the counter cutting was poor, etc. At the time I just thought I was unlucky and had purchased a "lemon" copy, but perhaps the problems were more widespread than I thought. Cheers.
@@StukaJoe Nahh, not "bad", there have been so many variants on John's design it is baffling to keep track of. My " bad" is I keep calling the now defunct L2 publishing company Lg2 - I think that may have been a " local custom." Again, love your channel, cheers!
My friends became fanatic "Victory at Sea" gamers back in the 1980s/90s, playing the combined "War At Sea"/"Victory in the Pacific" game. I subscribed to "The AH General" and had all the add-ons and variants, and I sold Mike, Dave, Kevin, and Eric everything. (I'm more of a hardcore gamer: Advanced Squad Leader, Europa series, etc.) I loved the wrap-around global board. They had a ball, throwing masses of dice, occasionally erupting when a series of Day/Night rolls in the Pacific went against someone or twenty Anti-Submarine Warfare dice left one pesky U-Boot alive and neutralizing a sea zone. I'd sit in occasionally and play the Regia Marina (Italians) or VMF (Soviets) just to hang out, talk, and have fun. They'd sometimes play two complete games a day. Kevin's girlfriend harassed him constantly, driving around the block, waiting for him to spend time with her, and the guys still tell "Kevin stories." Good times.
A very popular game indeed and it still has its core fans. It's still popular a the "World Board Gaming Championships", however "I'm late to the party" and didn't get into it until recently and I've been a gamer since 1969.
Hi all. Victory at Sea looks very good and it looks like another game will be added to my shelf. A friend of mine bought WAS when it came out in 1976, and we played it a lot. I liked the game and bought my own copy along with VITP when it came out. I still have both my original copies. I also have the Victory at Sea variant and later bought WAS 2. I think I may have bought that at one of the early Origins at the AH booth. I did buy Two Ocean War by NMS at Origins years ago. This was based on WAS and it covered both the Atlantic and Pacific. The maps were made of vinyl and came rolled up in a tube. The ships were plastic and there were hundreds of them. I think I played it once with my wargame group. I do have Grand Fleet (L2) but have not really looked at it, so I am not too sure how much alike it is to WAS. I also bought Nine Navies War (DG) but it has too many chrome rules (IMO). The game is unbalanced, and I think heavily favors the CP. All in all, I like playing these types of games.
Hi Gilbert. I'm no expert player, but I have followed the plethora of "in-house" variants and new designs since Avalon Hill first purchased John Edward's game. I was a keen board game enthusiast and didn't live far from the Jedko warehouse in the 1970s. While I have read opinions to the contrary, it was generally felt that the original War at Sea design favoured the Axis player too much and was mostly an introductory game and not a simulation. Avalon Hill's Don Greenwood gave the Allies a Point of Control ("Poc") for the North Sea (the original gave the Allies 0) to try to balance the game and published. Roughly a year later Richard Hamblen produced Victory in the Pacific based on Edward's system - this was generally felt (and still is) to be a fine game and a vast improvement (at least from a historical simulation perspective) on the original game. Those who dislike the system called the games "Yahtzee at Sea" and "Yahtzee in the Pacific." I no longer have my original Jedko version of War at Sea, but still have my copy of the Jedko version of Victory at Sea (1992). I did have a copy of L2's game Victory at Sea, but this was more a re-print of Avalon Hill's War at Sea 2 variant, not the game you have from Compass, which looks like a straight re-print of Jedko's game but with much better production qualities. Jedkos (and subsequently the Compass version) incorporate some of the many suggested variants and rules from War at Sea 2. Another big change is that Convoys can be "re-built" and return to the game. One of best new rules in my humble opinion is where 3 hits or more is considered critical. The British reaction force is also a good idea, a bit like raiders in Victory in the Pacific. Anyway, thank you so much for the review and I'm looking forward to purchasing your WW1 version. Cheers.
@@XLEGION1 thanks Gilbert, sorry for the long comments/ramble to yourself and Stuka Joe, the game system is something of a passion for me. I'd be very interested in your thoughts on Brian Herr's "Admirals War" once you've had a chance to play such.
Nice video, Gilbert. Again. The rule changes you describe make this edition incompatible with WBC tournament play. The original War At Sea has a loyal, if not fanatic, following. A shout out to Vince Meconi, who's been GMing the tourney since the beginning.
A true blast from the past (early-mid 1980s). I did have the Avalon Hill War at Sea but purchased it after War in the Pacific. At the time I recall thinking it recalled paled in comparison and was not that engaging. I think the new improvements will help a bit although surface warfare in the Atlantic in WW2 is an overlooked genre. One pet peeve seeing the counters that remains from an earlier time. I never understood the “bias” developers had towards German units in WW2 games and Confederates in ACW games. The Bismarck being rated that much better than say the USS Washington?? Same as, for example, Confederate infantry being disproportionately better than Union units. I don’t see that this bias went away even in modern games.
Hi Gilbert. This does look like a fun game. I have the L2 version, which is also called War at Sea (published 2007). It looks very similar to the Compass version. I was also interested to hear about your new WWI naval game. I have a similar game from L2 called Grand Fleet, which seems to be the same system, published in 2010. I would be interested in sending pictures of the components if I can find your email.
Hey Stephen: I had owned the L2 version several years ago but ultimately did not keep it. I had also owned 'Grand Fleet' and once again, did not keep it. This game has had an amazing history but 'Victory at Sea' is different enough, that I'm keeping this one. {email: gilbertcollins7@gmail.com}
I really like how you take a modern game and explain its lineage.
Thank you. I always like to know the 'origins' of a lot of our games.
Great video, Gilbert! The Victory at Sea variant, published by Avalon Hill, came in an envelope (no box) and included the paper map, variant counters (e.g. Italian frogmen) and the rules. I had not seen any video about the game. You just sold it to me! Purchased at Amazon. Cheers!
Thanks Stuka! I figured it might have been an 'envelope' variant. Now, did L2 ever publish a new edition???
Hi Joe. The product you mention was actually "War at Sea 2", designed by Paul Kaster and Alan R Moon (I still have my copy). Richard Hamblen published a variant in the General magazine entitled "Victory at Sea" whereby he combined the War at Sea and Victory in the Pacific games into a single global ww2 naval campaign.
Love your channel and tips about creating your own counters by the way! Cheers.
@@buckospiffle594 You are so right! My bad! Thanks for the heads up!
@@XLEGION1 Hello again Gilbert. See my reply to Joe below. L2 (Lg2?) was a boxed game, basically a new edition of the envelope variant " War at Sea 2" by Avalon Hill. One change was that the L2 ships had "raider" versions on the back of the ship counters, just like in Victory in the Pacific. I recall reading the plan for L2 was to release a version of Victory in the Pacific which could be combined with their Victory at Sea game to create a global ww2 strategic naval game. Unfortunately I believe the company folded or went out of business before their Pacific version could be published. I threw most of my L2 version out as the board was badly warped, the counter cutting was poor, etc. At the time I just thought I was unlucky and had purchased a "lemon" copy, but perhaps the problems were more widespread than I thought. Cheers.
@@StukaJoe Nahh, not "bad", there have been so many variants on John's design it is baffling to keep track of. My " bad" is I keep calling the now defunct L2 publishing company Lg2 - I think that may have been a " local custom." Again, love your channel, cheers!
Thanks for the video!
That "England" on the map next to the White Ensign and used to describe the United Kingdom does make me wince though.
My friends became fanatic "Victory at Sea" gamers back in the 1980s/90s, playing the combined "War At Sea"/"Victory in the Pacific" game. I subscribed to "The AH General" and had all the add-ons and variants, and I sold Mike, Dave, Kevin, and Eric everything. (I'm more of a hardcore gamer: Advanced Squad Leader, Europa series, etc.) I loved the wrap-around global board.
They had a ball, throwing masses of dice, occasionally erupting when a series of Day/Night rolls in the Pacific went against someone or twenty Anti-Submarine Warfare dice left one pesky U-Boot alive and neutralizing a sea zone. I'd sit in occasionally and play the Regia Marina (Italians) or VMF (Soviets) just to hang out, talk, and have fun. They'd sometimes play two complete games a day. Kevin's girlfriend harassed him constantly, driving around the block, waiting for him to spend time with her, and the guys still tell "Kevin stories." Good times.
A very popular game indeed and it still has its core fans. It's still popular a the "World Board Gaming Championships", however "I'm late to the party" and didn't get into it until recently and I've been a gamer since 1969.
Hi all. Victory at Sea looks very good and it looks like another game will be added to my shelf.
A friend of mine bought WAS when it came out in 1976, and we played it a lot. I liked the game and bought my own copy along with VITP when it came out. I still have both my original copies.
I also have the Victory at Sea variant and later bought WAS 2. I think I may have bought that at one of the early Origins at the AH booth. I did buy Two Ocean War by NMS at Origins years ago. This was based on WAS and it covered both the Atlantic and Pacific. The maps were made of vinyl and came rolled up in a tube. The ships were plastic and there were hundreds of them. I think I played it once with my wargame group.
I do have Grand Fleet (L2) but have not really looked at it, so I am not too sure how much alike it is to WAS. I also bought Nine Navies War (DG) but it has too many chrome rules (IMO). The game is unbalanced, and I think heavily favors the CP.
All in all, I like playing these types of games.
Thanks for the video, Gilbert. Take care.
Hi Gilbert. I'm no expert player, but I have followed the plethora of
"in-house" variants and new designs since Avalon Hill first purchased John Edward's game. I was a keen board game enthusiast and didn't live far from the Jedko warehouse in the 1970s. While I have read opinions to the contrary, it was generally felt that the original War at Sea design favoured the Axis player too much and was mostly an introductory game and not a simulation. Avalon Hill's Don Greenwood gave the Allies a Point of Control ("Poc") for the North Sea (the original gave the Allies 0) to try to balance the game and published. Roughly a year later Richard Hamblen produced Victory in the Pacific based on Edward's system - this was generally felt (and still is) to be a fine game and a vast improvement (at least from a historical simulation perspective) on the original game. Those who dislike the system called the games "Yahtzee at Sea" and "Yahtzee in the Pacific." I no longer have my original Jedko version of War at Sea, but still have my copy of the Jedko version of Victory at Sea (1992). I did have a copy of L2's game Victory at Sea, but this was more a re-print of Avalon Hill's War at Sea 2 variant, not the game you have from Compass, which looks like a straight re-print of Jedko's game but with much better production qualities. Jedkos (and subsequently the Compass version) incorporate some of the many suggested variants and rules from War at Sea 2. Another big change is that Convoys can be "re-built" and return to the game. One of best new rules in my humble opinion is where 3 hits or more is considered critical. The British reaction force is also a good idea, a bit like raiders in Victory in the Pacific. Anyway, thank you so much for the review and I'm looking forward to purchasing your WW1 version. Cheers.
Thanks a lot "buck", that's more information that I didn't know about.
@@XLEGION1 thanks Gilbert, sorry for the long comments/ramble to yourself and Stuka Joe, the game system is something of a passion for me. I'd be very interested in your thoughts on Brian Herr's "Admirals War" once you've had a chance to play such.
Congratulations, I'm very much looking forward to High Seas Fleet. It will be nice to have both.
Nice video, Gilbert. Again. The rule changes you describe make this edition incompatible with WBC tournament play. The original War At Sea has a loyal, if not fanatic, following. A shout out to Vince Meconi, who's been GMing the tourney since the beginning.
Very true. There is no way, this will ever be a tournament at WBC.
Great preview. Just ordered it.
A true blast from the past (early-mid 1980s). I did have the Avalon Hill War at Sea but purchased it after War in the Pacific. At the time I recall thinking it recalled paled in comparison and was not that engaging. I think the new improvements will help a bit although surface warfare in the Atlantic in WW2 is an overlooked genre. One pet peeve seeing the counters that remains from an earlier time. I never understood the “bias” developers had towards German units in WW2 games and Confederates in ACW games. The Bismarck being rated that much better than say the USS Washington?? Same as, for example, Confederate infantry being disproportionately better than Union units. I don’t see that this bias went away even in modern games.
Hi Gilbert. This does look like a fun game. I have the L2 version, which is also called War at Sea (published 2007). It looks very similar to the Compass version. I was also interested to hear about your new WWI naval game. I have a similar game from L2 called Grand Fleet, which seems to be the same system, published in 2010. I would be interested in sending pictures of the components if I can find your email.
Hey Stephen: I had owned the L2 version several years ago but ultimately did not keep it. I had also owned 'Grand Fleet' and once again, did not keep it. This game has had an amazing history but 'Victory at Sea' is different enough, that I'm keeping this one. {email: gilbertcollins7@gmail.com}