Are Men Worse Off In Modern Times?
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- Опубликовано: 31 дек 2024
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Chris and Gurwinder Bhogal discuss if there is any truth to men thinking they would be better off living in Medieval Times. Why do we romanticise the past according to Gurwinder Bhogal? What do Chris and Gurwinder think would happen if these men actually traded their current life for a Mediaeval one? What does it say about the current state of men if they long for another era according to Gurwinder Bhogal?
#redpill #masculinity #men
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Your ad at the end has some audio issues btw, sounds like you're in a basement of a questionable nature XD
@ChrisWillx - How Leftist Define the Middle Ages.
1. Suggestive of the Middle Ages, as in being hierarchical or cruel.
2. Old-fashioned; unenlightened.
Not to downplay the difficulty of the past, but I honestly think they would be horrified at some of the things we put up with. One would be the amount of anxiety and depression due to lack of community and sheer loneliness. Being outcast from your village was a severe punishment. Many people today are experiencing that just because of the way modern society is structured.
Very true. Not to mention, a lot of history is shady and not true. I think there were many golden ages where humans were free and lived much better lives than us.
@@Hero_Of_Old "You've never had it as good as you have under my tyranny" Every modern politician.
I doubt they would be "horrified", they would probably be completely confused and not even comprehend how depression could exist with access to the resources we have, which might indicate a deeper depression that we're still able to flail about and still feel the need to crush each other despite living in basically a physical utopia
I still think they had it much worse than we do. Imagine having to pump out 10 kids because a majority of them would die within the first 5 years. Not to mention, if you were "unlucky" enough that a majority of them survived, you had no way to feed them all. Imagine dying because you stubbed your toe, and because we didn't have a germ theory of disease, it got infected again when they amputated it. All without painkillers or anesthetics, by the way. Our daily life would be a paradise to those people. Of course, we still have our challenges to overcome. But I'll take our challenges over theirs every day of the week. At least when the internet gets to be too much, you can disconnect and go touch grass and feel better. Those people were stuck in their reality every day. Honestly, I like that we're not as connected to each other as we used to be. Imagine many of the important outcomes of your life being tied directly to your idiot neighbors' decision-making abilities. I actually like that we're not as reliant on each other as we used to be.
If you live in a first world country with access to internet and running water. Your life is objectively easy compared to the past.
If you were outcast from your village/tribe that was a death sentence. Not death from loneliness but because a harsh winter/summer would kill you. Assuming an animal or disease didn’t get you first.
If you have access to comment on RUclips you have access to download an app to meet people with similar interests.
If I lived in that time, without modern medicine and law, I'd have been dead about 10 times by now.
Same, I would have died when I was 13 when I got a really bad case of pneumonia. It was life-threatening, but 500 years ago it would 100% have been life-ending instead.
1/11/1922 first dose of insulin given
What's wrong with being dead?
The main ones I was thinking of were:
1) those who "died in their teeth" - meaning that a tooth infection spread and caused their death
2) lawless bandits and outlaws who would kill you for sport, or because you asked them a question that might reveal something about them, or to rob you if they thought you had money - there was less policing than today, and no phones.
3) industrial accidents - no workplace health and safety laws
4) exposure to toxic substances - no controls around that (i.e. poisons were made by druids or alchemists and much easier to acquire, mercury in hat manufacturing, asbestos, coal dust, pollution from burning for heat)
5) more diseases from food and infectious viruses - a lower standard of sanitation, no understanding of germs, people lived much more closely together in cities so a flu was more devastating than now
6) no sewerage system - many died from diptheria, cholera and other diseases of poor sanitation and public health
7) a multitude of illnesses and diseases that had no cure and were poorly understood. Medieval Armies for example had huge death rates from diseases - far more than combat (this ran up until World War I, stopped only by advances in medicine). Many medieval armies fought while suffering from a range of diseases that were untreatable.
8) death by slavery - many slaves were taken by Barbary Pirates and the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade and living in those harsh conditions often shortened lives considerably. Only the strongest survived, which is visible today in African-Americans who are often particularly fast, tall, strong or agile due largely to being purpose-bred by slaveowners for those tasks. It's no accident that freaks of nature exist so widely in that group - Shaq, Michael Jordan, OJ Simpson, Karl Lewis - native Africans don't excel in those physical endeavours anywhere near as prolifically because they weren't selectively bred to do them over 240 years. A lot of slaves with less natural endowment would have died much sooner, under those demanding conditions.
@@NamelessKing1597 The unknown nature of it I think. It could be better than being alive as a human or animal or whatever, but we don't know that, and people are scared of what they don't know, so they want to live rather than die.
I’ve had this exact argument with my friend who said he wish he lived in the past. I had to remind him that the average life span was so low, that the reason elderly people were so respected was because disease, violence, and famine was so common that surviving all that meant you were doing something right.
Still might be better
Interesting point on old people. I agree with that. Being old kinda doesn't mean shit anymore except that you're useless and senile. Most of these old people lived mediocre as fuck lives the entire time anyways so there's not much to respect in them.
@@mlmoreno75If you are heterosexual and a Christian, yes.
Great so instead I get to almost assuredly survive with no wife or kids, no purpose, in a godless society that hates and denigrates me. Wonderful.
Well the low average lifespan was more due to infant mortality. If you made it past 5 you had a good chance of making it to 70ish. These days because of modernity, sedate lifestyle and processed food etc, many don't make it to 70 and if they do they're couch potatoes
As an avid history buff, I wholeheartedly agree. I love reading stories about life in the past, and people tend to forget just how unforgiving the world has been for pretty much all of our history up to the late 19th century. Life before that was a struggle every day, with things constantly trying to kill you, from a common food poisoning, to wild animals to actual other people in raids or petty crime. Life was not to be taken for granted.
That still sounds better than the hell I'm living now. I'd trade a long and pointless life for a short one with some kind of meaning.
@@derpyeh9107 It's up to you. There are many places in the world where you can live that kind of life even in the 21st century.
@@baddolphin1423yeah definitely. I can’t stand when people complain about modernity. If society sucks so much. You can always live off the grid alone, and live of the land. No one’s forcing you to be here.
@@rico14 Exactly, and they don't even try to prove some of their fantasies. For example: try to live a week without any electricity (like in the middle ages), or stuff like that. It's like they cherry pick only the good stuff and forget about the mountain of bad stuff.
@@derpyeh9107well next time you have diahrea, you can imagine what it was like being in the Middle Ages, since that was one of the common ways to die back then….
3:14 Disagree here, marriage rates are the lowest it's ever been and rates of virginity among men are at an all time high. So statistically yes said incel had a higher chance of getting laid in 1523 vs 2023 though he also had a much higher chance of not reaching adulthood in the first place (e.g. smallpox, dysentery).
If someone is complaining about the luxuries they're afforded in 2023 the chances of them succeeding at anything half a millennia ago are comedically low
Just[72V¡rg¡nsValhalla]Maxx bro
How reliable were dating statistics in 1523? I suspect you entered into an arranged marriage in your late teens and if you were lucky you made it to 50s.
Yes, the past was more brutal, harder to survive, low material standards of living. However, there’s more to life than material standards. What’s missing in modern society was present in the past. The chance to earn glory and prove valor. You weren’t some atomized individual. You were a part of a real community that you actively participated in. Your community was a giant family, not a bunch of strangers driving by in cars. The nature of life today lacks many of the terrible struggles of the past and although it gives us a great standard of living, we lose a lot of what gave men’s lives meaning and purpose.
All that you just said can be had today, you don’t have to go to a war to get glory and prove valor, do well at your job, be an inspiration to young men, be a brother, be a friend to your dudes, if you want a community, seek it out, there are many communities currently today in modern countries and yes they are small because very few people do seek and maintain, but if you do it, you’ll have it. Just because today isn’t perfect, doesn’t mean that the past is better and why go for regression when we can continue to fight for a great future instead, being the hero of tomorrow would do greater good to you and the world then to be the hero of the past.
@@bluetears2 Doing well at your job isn’t getting the glory though, it’s just the same old repeated actions that you do everyday for money from a corporation that couldn’t care less about you and will happily replace you in an instant.
@@z-rex6068 then don’t do your job well, do your hobbies well, do your family well, do you friends well, do a business, create a program, go achieve something, glory exists in many realms, I just said job cause it’s where you spend the most time and cause you’re there a lot, easier path to glory, but you many options, don’t box yourself in or go running to the past, we need you here, bringing glory to this day and for the future
Community is the single biggest thing we've lost. Humans aren't humans anymore. Our current world is a bizzare nightmare for a social animal like us
We could have all these things today but we choose not too. We choose convenience over glory. We choose Cheetos over virility. While I think this is a straw man video the problem of modernity is that very few have the fortitude to resist modernity. Life has become to easy. Seeing a life where they can’t resist many young men want to tear the addiction to Modern Ease from its roots and force the world into rehab. Idle men a dangerous and if adventure has been pacified they will destroy the world to bring it back the chance to die to be king of the new mountain. I am not sure we understand what tender is being sparked.
I think this guy misses the point that living isn't the goal anymore. Winning is. If you can't win you should die. Dead people don't suffer. Only the living. So it's better to try to win and die trying than to not try and remain a loser forever while rich evil people steal the world and win.
GoValhallaMaxxing
He spectacularly misses the point. What's the point of having cheap flights, transfats and Netflix if all it means is a quarter of the population is so miserable they're prescribed antidepressants. People in the past had something more - faith and community. Maybe it was hard, but it was real.
Nostalgia is a seductive liar
Let's be honest. Cannon fodder is still an upgrade to being an incel with no future apart from work, eat, sleep, repeat.
Yeah m8 bust most incels can work their way out of being incels
@@massivememes326 If they spend that money on prostitudes, yeah. If not, then I would not put my money on it.
@@sfp2290 It's no easy task but even short and ugly guys with no life can turn it around with years of hard work and self improvement. I've seen plenty of homely dudes with girlfriends. Have you heard of the youtuber Hamza Ahmed??
You can always
[72v¡rg¡nsValhalla]Maxx Bruh
Guys it's not that hard. when people talk about living in the past they are generally talking culture not tech. Think amish not Slab city California
Being well versed and experienced in the RP community, I literally have never heard anyone say this. I do not think that these "quite popular" persons are anywhere near as popular as they're made out to be, especially considering that the legacy media is effectively boosting their perceived influence.
Social media will do that.
I think the modern world makes it much easier to survive, but much more difficult to live a fulfilling life. The world is so much more controlled by forces so much more powerful than have ever existed before in history. The work most people do is soul-crushing in nature, workplaces are absurdly totalitarian, and we work more than medieval peasants did.
Actually... I dropped the following comment years ago on another video that questioned the appeal of post-apocalypse media. I think it's very relevant here.
---
Surviving in late capitalism is fucking hard. There is so much to juggle and manage. It's constantly walking a tightrope. Never-ending lose/lose decisions. You're always worried and stressed, but at the same time there's zero excitement or fulfilling challenges driving that stress. Just the nagging background radiation enveloping your soul, driving you to continue grinding or else. And it's all in service to people you don't even know, and who only care about you as far as it serves them. Most people's jobs don't even tangibly do anything meaningful outside of the circular internal logic of the imaginary number game that is the capitalist economy. And you can pretty much never be yourself or even express in your daily life how you feel about things. You don't even have enough free time or energy at the end of the day to form meaningful bonds with others to cope socially. Endless emotionally destructive isolating drudgery is all you have to look forward to forever. But if you don't play along, there is no way in hell you can fight the forces that will come to punish you for it.
In a post-apocalypse, it may be harder in terms of physical hardship. Getting hurt, being hungry, and going without modern luxuries. But, at least in the terms of the appeal of the fictional presentation of it, it's simple. You do simple work. The products are tangible. You and your own directly, materially benefit from them. Not only is there finally nothing stopping you from developing a real community with fulfilling social bonds, but that is likely the most important thing you put effort into every day. Let me repeat - having a social life is considered the greatest luxury in modern day that most people are only able to dedicate a few hours a week to, and loneliness is the main driving factor in suicide being a leading cause of death. Yet having a social life would literally be your job in the post-apocalypse. There's stress, but it's temporary bursts, directly associated with real excitement and adventure, and meaningfully shared with others. Some bandits come to fight you, you fight. If you survive, it's over. And that's a fight you have many, many, many times greater likelihood of winning than you do against a neoliberal military-industrial mass surveillance police state. In other words, there's literally more hope in a (fictional) post-apocalypse than there is in modern late capitalist life. In this reality you KNOW your fate - to be slowly sucked dry spending 95% of your waking life doing things you hate for no reason, just to kill yourself or be discarded by society when you're all used up and can't take it anymore - and you're more likely to be abducted by aliens than to escape that fate. Of course post-apocalypse seems more appealing.
@@beowulf_of_wall_st Clarify mucking around in the dirt all day. You mean farming? My extended family are all farmers. Do you really imagine being a peasant was like that bit in Monty Python and the Holy Grail with the people randomly stacking globs of mud for no reason? Go actually read something.
As for monarchy. I don't see how you believe anything's changed. Especially in the USA. Police murder people regularly and almost never face consequences. The intelligence community violates people's lives on massive scale with impunity. We have the largest prison population in the history of the world, most of them non-violent offenders. There are about 60,000 people held in solitary confinement at any given time, which is one of the most horrible and terrifying things that can be done to a human being and does irreversible brain damage in a matter of weeks, yet many of them are stuck there for years for trivial reasons. Employers micro-manage every aspect of 80% of our waking lives, sometimes to the point of regulating what we wear, when we go to the bathroom, our facial expressions, or even how we walk. And if we don't conform to their demands, we die. In the modern day, we work for a whole spectrum of powers that hold life and death over us, are far more intrusive in our lives than any other point in history, and are far more powerful than ever before.
By contrast, yes, monarchy was bullshit. Nobility could and did horrible things with impunity, and when they did it was (in general) worse than things done today. But the scale is incomparable. The majority of peasants went about the majority of their lives mostly unaffected by it all. And you were 1000000x more able to just fuck off into the wilderness and avoid it all completely if needed. There may be danger involved, but it was possible. Now every shred of space in the developed world is monitored and subject to a myriad of strict controls, and it's completely inescapable, and the only wilderness left that's not parkland is only so because it's incredibly hostile to human life.
"None of these men would have survived"....well, most men in medieval or bronze age society did survive. Most men would have survived and coped. Many would have been peasants, many would have been warriors.
The childhood theory is brilliant.
Men just want to be men again! It’s that simple.
Who's stopping them?
@@CONEHEADDK we ourselves
@@EvolutionaryThinking Speak for your self.
@@CONEHEADDK and who is stopping you? Momma? The World? Government? Satan?
@@CONEHEADDKplastics, chemicals in the water, bread and pasta, estrogenics everywhere, a stiffling culture where ambition is punished, lack of avenues for actual conquering, non owned space, initiation rituals
Bhogal is one of my all time favorite guests on the podcast.
Modernity did not eradicate disabilities, the statement that anyone can do anything in modern times is ridiculous.
The so-called Medieval period lasted hundreds of years and contained lengthy periods of peace. For most people, most of the time it was a period of peace and plenty.
Peace maybe but is there indoor plumbing?
@@bluetears2 would you prefer indoor plumbing or the Four Horsemen?
@@liamfoley9614 ? Like I can have one or the other, not sure what you mean, but I have no use for the four horseman so indoor plumbing is still my choice
Have you grown your own food? As a veteran gardener I’m forever thankful for modern transportation and grocery stores.
@@OkTxSheepLady Yes and i live close to people who grow food and raise animals for meat and dairy. But that has no impact on my point above.
Modern western life has destroyed family life and any sense of community. That’s what people, especially men, are bemoaning when they say they want to live in medieval times. Men today in the west have every material comfort they could ever want, but they don’t have friends. They don’t have dads. They don’t have extended family (uncles, grandparents, cousins, etc.). The loneliness epidemic is very real and it’s why men think they would have been better off in Medieval days. It’s a fallacy. It’s easier to make a friend in 2023 than it was to sustain your life in 923.
Who gave you the idea that most people of this persuasion want anything more than to own a homestead and chop wood?
Sometimes as a Finnish person I wonder how the hell people survived in the north during winters a couple hundred years ago. I probably would’ve died of an illness at an early age. I feel like after starting to consume vitamin D daily I’ve stayed healthier way better but we did not have that in the pill format back then nor was there sunlight during winter..
And I wonder what it feels like to speak Finnish like a sorcerer, with all 15 cases, effortlessly as if it were English. You are truly blessed!
If I'm being a litte obstinate ( Edit; taking out the lunatics from the argument. ) I think the past was a simpler time in some regards.
There's no denying that my grandfather & his parents suffered a lot more struggles (early fatalities & threat of starvation) but compared to us they had communities & purpose.
"Give a man a purpose and the ability to achieve it, and he will crawl over broken glass with a smile."
When our history get's boilded down, they'll probably underline two aspects such as our tech-boom & how "spiritually" lost people were.
All a person has to do today to have a purpose is to look around and see who needs some help and go help. It doesn’t have to be some earthshaking task. Read a book to a child. Pick up litter off the street. Trim a person’s grass or plant some flowers for them. Make the world a better place one act of kindness at a time.
@@OkTxSheepLady
Definitely a good point.
I do however think something is off about the premise of how & why people would make that their purpose. (Edit; It's so general or perhaps generic that it just seem off to me. "Paying it forward" is a mission that's more relatable I think.)
Also, taking the time to help others when one's a shit-show themselves is kind of sketchy. I imagine It'll look like someone using altruism to win affection or just to be accepted. Transactional in some sense which makes the whole ordeal kind of fake & sad.
There should be other concrete examples or actions one can take to become part of society & help build it up rather than tare it down?
It'll be like finding a worthy pursuit while also finding a belonging to somewhere.
@@OkTxSheepLady
Certified teehee momento
People from hundreds/thousands of years ago were either completely metal or dead. There was no in between. Most everyone alive today would have died before the age of 5 if their lives were recast to their "idealistic" age. It was a short brutal life that was surrounded by death at every turn. It was a life of pain, suffering, and agony. People just dealt with it or died. Alcohol was the only real pain reliever aside from the few areas of the world that had druggy plants. Your teeth would rot out of your skill leaving you in horrid pain. Broken bones would leave you crippled or ravaged with arthritis. Diseases could cripple you, and often times killed. Anyone, ANYONE who thinks going back to in time to any point in history was a better place is so utterly delusional I can only blame our worthless school system for their complete lack of any accurate teaching of history. Even 100 years ago means no antibiotics, no fungal treatments, just basic first aid and primitive surgery. We live in the closest thing to a utopia that has ever existed, and still people can't appreciate what they've got.
If people of the past didn't have an external locus of control, why did they all find God?
Mother Nature will always and only do whatever chemistry, biology and physics dictate, and rewards only adaptation strategies that act according to those same things.
You're anthromorphising Nature as something human, with agency and aims. It's absolutely not true.
I'd like to hear a steelman of whatever argument this dude is attacking, because it seems he is just attacking ideas he thinks other people think. I cannot remember anyone having the sorts of opinions he gets so worked up about.
Not sure what you’re getting at in general, but by “steelman” are you trying to say strawman?
@@bluetears2 no, he means an actual, genuine attempt at the position being attacked. Basically, opposite of a strawman.
@@knaudi86 oh, then he got it, it is steel man, which tbh is first time I’ve heard of it, just googled it haha
We need a lot more steel manning in general. Maybe barn building could be used. No where is there barn building on display. So many just lump people Into generic categories. ... Rather we might structure where does that comment make sense? Perhaps it is an expression and maybe just a reverie. Or could it be in response to certain aspects of 21st century digitalism - which causes huge cognitive dissonance - so much so that people are saying they'd rather go back to middle ages! What would the point be then? In response to what other point?
Just lines of information not really shown to connect to actual knowledge circuits or perhaps assumed self knowledge as "the knowledge" that is what we need to barn build - the information as it moves into knowledge within a beholder.... If we do that then perhaps we can identity a lot more diverse pattern then these simple categories used today - like lefties, woke , far-right MAGA..... But then that might take out the trillion dollar information wars industry so it's a David and Goliath battle for sure... Maybe humans are ready!
He did say it was a sort of far-right viewpoint, which might imply that he believes it's minority-held. He did reference a person who essentially held that view.
Most of these people who say foolishness like this wouldn't survive even in most of the non-western countries of today.
It's not about living a better, " more masculine" life, it's about living a simple but challenging life... and I mean *truly* simple life, not modern minimalistic, not modern-style simple... just simple
The ever-present natural dangers are a great motivation... cold, hunger, etc. force you to constantly have something *real* to focus on... but those are all thing we take for granted these days and combined with tons of options we have for everything and also tons of modern problems makes it *extremely* hard to find the motivation to keep going... it makes living almost meaningless and it feels you spend more time focusing on finding some arbitrary and abstract goals to force yourself going than actually achieving them or changing something...
...so I'd rather be a filthy peasant n. 15694, live a "boring life", work from dawn till dusk every day and die in my early 30s than continue living in this day&age.
Modernity is great, but also the reason we are in a post industrial cultural and spiritual dystopia with eight billion plus people wondering what the point is
Lol BAP isn't small. One of the articles by the guy who knew him
said how he sent him pictures of his physique progress. He was troubled by this fascist development
It's when you have to burn for a while, or you pass into that indescribable threshold of pain that allows you to endure more and more. People who only take or only give to take are at home in this world. As ideal as it may be, a world where people were hypothetically conditioned to give when possible and take when necessary could have changed the purpose of government to betterment. This world, or governments approach their populations like fires, not companions. We will perpetually suffer for swatting ourselves away from the hearth.
Another way he is wrong. He thinks we long for childhood. Idyllic childhood. What if your childhood was terrible? My childhood was more awful than you could imagine, and I am one of those people who would rather live and die by the sword.
Then you’re escaping into a fantasy of what you hope is a better world, missing your childhood isn’t only for people with good childhoods, it’s actually more prominent in people with bad childhoods (me included) and yes I agree hard times makes you a fighter, but you can fight in this world too, no need to go back a hundred years to die by the sword, when we can die by the gun today
Its crazy to think where we would be without the free access to knowledge/books. If i had access to books im sure id do fine in the medieval times. Without them I dont know where I would be.
The vast majority of people in Medieval times were illiterate.
If anyone's interested in hard core traditional Medieval history I warmly recommend Schwerpunkt's videos series
It's a small channel but looks like an absolute gem. Cheers!
good content but the name and thumbnails are repulsive 😂 he need to work on that side more.
it wasn't better than now but it wasn't as brutal as you portrayed it you could do the same thing with the modern times for example "you don't want to live in the 2000s because you could die in a building struck by a plan" you took extreme events in history and portrayed them as the norm.
@@beowulf_of_wall_st yeah i know but it wasn't a 24 hours war like they portrayed it people had more problems to deal with that we don't have to but they had more or less similar lives we have more cancer than ever before i wouldn't call our time brutal because of that I'm sure people from the future will call our time "brutal" because they won't have to deal with some of the problems we have today.
Not those times but like 40-80 years ago maybe 🤔😂
80 years ago was world war 2. Nope, not good times at all. 40 years ago? That's 1983. Depends on where you live. United States? Yeah, you're doing pretty well, but still not as good as you are in 2023. No modern medicine, no internet. Incomes + employee benefits have steadily increased since then. Then the Great Recession diminished some of that progress by a bit, but not even near where the economy was in 1983. Soviet Union? Romania? Yugoslavia? You're not doing good, but better than medieval times, and if you live in the last of those three, be prepared for a brutal civil war and genocide in the coming years.
Why, then, are depression rates higher now than they were 40 years ago? The question is certainly worth exploring.
so WW1-WW2 era and vietnam... certainly "great" choices there lol
@@crustybomb115 lol put me in a war against the nazis that we win and follow it up with a giant economic boom. I’d happily roll the dice getting through the war, and if I died it would be a good death and a life lived with purpose and dignity. Sign me up.
If we're talking about the U.S, Canada, Western Europe, Australia, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea and New Zealand, then both the 1990s-2000s were FAR better than 2010-onward on a social and cultural standpoint and it's not even close.
I enjoy watching medieval time period movies/shows because it makes me more appreciative of how good I have it now despite not having all the things I would like to
Just from the title alone....alot of men today just wouldn't survive.
True. It's much better today, because now men don't die as cannon fodder. They die by their own choice, suicide. It's too bad, that we cannot gain from that yet. Perhaps with the right laws, we can harvest their organs, before the body grows too cold? Like a smartwatch sending a message to the government when no pulse is registered and no response is given over a certain period of time?
Then they can die by their own choice -and- their death provides some value to society. Win-win
BettER for the survivors lol
I think the world would be a better place in the long run if we returned to a model of bronze age mentality/mindset. I dont have to believe that I personally would be better off, to believe that the world and the human species would be better off.
just go work on a farm, thats what people really want...work hard for your food , gert off work , sit in the ac and watch your tele, best of both worlds..modern simple living
Nah, not what I want.
There is a big difference between running your own farm and having agency and working for a mega corporation where you're just part of a farm production line.
At least on the first you're learning and growing,
On the second you just treated like a disposable slave .
The sad part is you're not even paid enough so you can do stuff outside of work on your days off
@@waltherwagner9711 fair enough
@@raven-sf3di yea everything is so damn industrial and idk what we can actually do about it...i guess i meant yea, your own self sufficient garden is the only way it would work . farms are to make profit, people dont matter
@@chuckironsight3914 personally I would bring back a guild system
You get to sign up for say 3 guilds based on what you value and you are part of 2 guilds that are needed for society.
So you may sign up for a hunting and farming guild
An adventure and travel guild ect ect
These guilds will basically say the type of lifestyle you want to live .
You signed up to a guild that will teach you how to hunt and how to farm , in exchange you will travel around the country working the farms .
But you would get free travel
And you will have access to places only your travel guild has .
This would be a different life than someone who is part of the farming guild , a woodcraft guild and homeowners guild
Personally I think it would grant people the freedom they desire to live in the society they want
On food production: we have been so inventive and successful to the point that we are eating ourselves to death 😂
Minorities and women have claimed when asked if they rather travel to the past or the future that they don't have the "privilege" to travel to the past. No one should really think we'd last any amount of time in the past. It would be miserable given our knowledge of our time and technology.
Exactly, I’m a woman and I would never go to the past, I would lose everything and life would be too hard
I have the washboard that my husband’s grandmother used hanging over the door of my air conditioned utility room to remind me how thankful I am. The barely visible words printed on it say “Labor Saver”.
@@bluetears2
>LifeOn£asyM0de
Certified teehee moment LOL'ed
Muh[WmnAndMiN∅riTiEs] Bruh frfr
"No one should really think we'd last any amount of time in the past".....people, ordinary people, lived quite happily in the past. Meanwhile, in the present we're told that something like 20% of our population is clinically depressed.
I saw a film of London in the 1930s and the comment section was replete with people saying how clean London looked, how well dressed the people were, how they wished they could go back in time…….until they saw a market stall with a “cat meat for sale” sign.
Entertaining and insightful. With all our many challenges, we’ve never had it so good in so many ways we take absolutely for granted.
"A bigger guy would have worn you" my god that got me laughing - Chris Williamson
The problem is not just the nostalgy for a lost past but more of the perspective we give to the whole situation of men in history, to say that we live better now is a mistake, we don't live better we just live LESS bad that we had it in the past, but our lifes are still hell
You miss the point. In those days power changed hands much more frequently. This idea that you couldn't be king without being the strongest man is nonsense. There were a lot of men in days past who were not the strongest but still won. Caesar is a good example of this.
Simple answer... No. In midevil times most men were surfs and inao being little more than slaves attached to their land and lord. Chances are you would be dead by 35 after years of disease hard work and no gains. Your life would suck. On a completly different level.
A medieval serf worked fewer hours annually than a modern wage slave. High childhood mortality skews the life expectancy. If you made it to adulthood, your chances of living to your 70s were pretty good
So not much different than today , only now they keep you alive longer to prolong your suffering
@@raven-sf3dino the middle ages were way way worse. There was an infant death rate disease. Near 70% tax on all you produce. You were not allowed to hunt the Lords live stock. Death was delt on whim of the landowner. You were not allowed to travel. You belonged to the land. The land you lived and worked on were owned by the Lord and you stayed out. Period. You had no property. The land your home down to you spoons or bed or cloths off your back were owned by the landowner. The middle ages were a feudal society. And where feudalism is in place you are nothing more than cattle. Today you own your own stuff. You can quit your job if you want and are smart enough to open your own business. Don't take this wrong but it sounds like you've talked to a bunch of feminists that think men had it easy back then. Well they didn't. Everyone's lives sucked. Don't believe that bs any more than the people that tell you communism is a better system. People become resources in them. And if your unhappy the only thing keeping you from quiting your job and starting a business is you and your own fear. $300 can get you washing windows professionally. 800 to do powerwashing. And if you do your homework and hustle you can make $80000 a year easily taking 3 days off a week. I'm making 3 grand this week and am only working 4 days. Not because I have secret knowledge but because I learned what I needed to know. Quit bitching and do something for yourself.
medicine extended the life of humans it wasn't the fact it was backbreaking work.
It was a more "direct" time.
Yep - 50% chance to not even reach puberty, 99% to never meet a clean woman.. No thanks..
Would have all been peasants! Under control of landowners.😮
Brilliant
The thing is that you would prob have a wife and kids on those times that you can't today
I think the mistake you are making is are they talking about as they are now or as if they had grown up then. As you are you might not like it because you are used to the luxury and don't have the strength for the work. But if you grew up chances are you would be more content because you have a defined station, know your duty, and aren't attacked for being what you are. You are more at risk of tragedy but you know and have been taught expect it and prepare for it and when it's not striking you are more connected to your family, faith, and community. Look at the amish.
what if these people don’t necessarily believe they would be better off, but that the outcomes of their life would be preferable to what they’re currently experiencing. IE the shame of suicide is worse than dying in combat or of starvation or of plague.
You can always
[72V¡rg¡nsValhalla]Maxx tho
I don't think anyone was assuming they will be Ghengis Khan, nor do they think life will be easier. There will certainly be challenges living in the past.
But the primary thing that people of old had is purpose. Meaning to their lives. They knew where they stood, what they had to do, the responsibilities entrusted to them, etc. Families were necessary simply due to survival. People back then had a teleology, they had narratives and expectations thrust upon them and knew what to do each day to survive.
We are sorely lacking that these days. People have no clue what to do with their lives. Thye struggle to find meaning. We are suffering from rampant loneliness and mental health crises, which would not have occurred back then. We have erased gender roles completely men are feeling lost, so they want to return to a time where men were not lost.
No one was better off back then. They called them Dark ages for a reason.
That's not why they're called the dark ages
@@raven-sf3di What reason did I give?
Enlightenment probaganda lol
I don’t even have to listen to this to say yes!!!!
If you were thrust back into the past with modern knowledge, other than improvements to sanitation, what could you give to society of that time?
Within a month you would be doing the basics of survival that everyone else did then.
what happened with the audio in the last part?
Chris seems to be confusing the Middle Ages for the Bronze Age: legal systems and courts prevented someone from just commiting outright murder, for example on feudalism, if tenant farmers living on the land of a noble was endanger by some perpetrator with malign intent, they could be protected by knights that were part of lords houseland, and Medieval guilds relied on a system whereby people of differing occupations lended support to one another to establish a more cooperative society.
Go read Chris... Barbara W. Tuchman _A Distant Mirror: The Calamitous 14th Century._
My family had a castle on a lake in Ireland. I'll take the medieval time any day.
This interview brings up a lot of the same feelings as Douglas Murray- when people ask what good came from the west… ummm agriculture, science, medicine, liberal democracy, etc.
@@shafaqtahir5746 I never said exclusive… but who mainstreamed them? Who improved them? Proliferated them? We’re still doing it today for developing countries. Of course I know other civilizations fed themselves but as the guest points out- those other cultures also got wiped out by famine.
TBF I am 6'4" and 265lb and I was over 6" when I was like 13 years old. So I would have been scooped off the farm SO fast, trained to be a knight, fed well, and spent my life swinging a 7" long axe at enemies of the king. So all in all, I think I would have been very successful relative to the general population
Trained to be a knight? What delusion is this? Knights were nobility. You’re working on a farm? Then you’re a feudal serf. You will live and die on that farm and the only reason you’re 6’4” and 265 lbs today is because you have access to modem nutrition. You wouldn’t be that size on a medieval farm where one bad crop meant you’d be starving to death that very winter.
You literally would have died from a rat bite 🧍🏾♀️
Among us there are some people who can do nothing but complain
or blame others for their failures in life .
Facades and scapegoats... Almost a universal human cognitive device. Duped by facades else scapegoat!
I have a desk job and spend most of my spare time trying to get the movement, light and nature time to be healthy while also having to shop and cook to get good nutrition. I often look to the past as a more normal way to get these needs met. Sure shopping would be harder but I’d be getting my sunlight and movement at the same time, possibly social time as well. It just made more sense than life does now. However, I am also aware that many of our ancient ancestors spent their lives at the bottom of a salt mine, squashed into awful positions, presumably as slaves either to someone else or necessity. So maybe it wasn’t that different. We pay the price for being out of step with nature and I think people feel that. Now we have everything provided for us we in too easy a form, we have to work hard to meet our other needs. Love the concept of a longing for childhood being a factor behind peoples longing for the past. Very interesting.
No, no they wouldn't. They would be serfs until they were 20 and get ran over by a horse.
It's a sort of "noble savage," "state of nature," or related myth that makes it way around whenever people look at negative outcomes of past decisions, and pass the view through rose-colored glasses without an understanding of the history behind.
Or maybe the people who say others just have rose tinted glasses on are just as blind to the hardships of today .
Is it really that hard to understand why people might think your lifestyle as unappealing
@@raven-sf3di I'm not sure what is unappealing about my lifestyle. However, believing in a distant past that was better than now in some way without careful analysis and qualification and understanding is just nostalgia.
This guy just hates the past because he couldn't spend half his paycheck on onlyfans.
This guest perpetually labeling people as "far right" without evidence or justification leads me to disregard everything he has to say.
@@Rehunauris
I've often wondered why people shift the entire political spectrum to hide how far left they are. Are they really ashamed of their political stance? What do you think?
I think in your joke-model you haven’t distinguished what life was like *where*. Just focusing on england your experience as a small village, town or city would be just as different as the modern day equivalent.
I think the world was better for Human connection when there was no internet. Better in the sense that people were Made more social and worked together more.
To be curious together. I have seen modern tech completely remove such opportunities.
Without human connection, it makes little difference if your cannon fodder in a Medieval battle or Some lost soul in a 21st century consumerist, Valueless Cluture.
Lmao of course someone that isn’t Anglo Saxon with a British accent is against the far right.
QOL of the times varied immensely. Sometimes history sucks but it certainly didn't always suck.
After the black death and with its decreasing of the population, value of labor soared and peasants would only work for half of the year, for about 8 hours a day. So they would work less than most americans do today.
Much of "how medieval life sucks" is dramatized by renaissance era myths trying to create a superiority to the past.
Also vastly exaggerating the difficulty of farming. Humans have been able to harness flooding for a while now. Even the most volitile and violent rivers like the yellow river could be managed given good management, though it often was not and even flooded on purpose by rulers to disastrous effect.
6:58 naturally that would be the case as our housing and infrastructure improved.
I hope that in no way is this meant as an argument to take climate change less seriously.
I had never heard, of this bronze age guy, and I looked him up, it took a while cuz the guest's pronounciation of his name was wack, I found him and allegadly he is an MIT mathemathics grad with a PHD in political science from yale, and his appearance, I could only find 2 pictures, one of his face(he looks like a normal joe) and one of him wearing a suit.
On the main topic of the vid, I do think that most of us in mediaeval times would have died of an illness at an early age or because of something else, but most people when they say that in mediaeval times they would be better off probably mean that if they passsed the childhood period of ilnesses and were transported as their current 20 yr old self lets say , they would fare quite well on the social status front, they would be taller than average, smarter than average if you could read in your mind you were considered a genius throughout most of history, if you had some knowledge of chemistry and biology like let's say a uni grad, you could make soap, an aspirin from tree bark and otheruseful things that could maybe keep you alive longer. Now if people were born back then and not transported, yeah, it would be bad, although who knows if these people were born today That means all their ancestors reproduced, so maybe if born back then they would still survive.
Lastly the medieval fantasy scenario might not be as good but I sure as hell think that most guys would have been happier if there were born in 1960 or 1950, (for americans obviously, I am not talking about 1950 turkemenistan) the economy for average people would have been better, social relations were better between friends and family, men were more respected back then than now due to all the norms. You might say that medicine was less advanced which is true but it existed unlike in medieaval times, or that there were other dangers like lead usage which is true but all eras have their advantages and drawbacks, even today we have mircoplastics, so in the end its pick the poison that you would like the most.
This is such a good chat.
Anecdotally, I feel like the "The locus of control" part seems to be particularly true.
I can reflect on times where I've seen others, and unfortunately also myself, blame circumstances.
I like the idea that, things are never perfect, but we truly do live in great times. By believing it, even if its not true (it could actually be better), it still doesn't matter, because I'm happy - I take responsibility for my happiness... And in so doing, reclaim control? Full circle.
I’m not sure about us having a more externalised local of control these days. I think people of ye olden days would blame a lot of other causes on their lot: the devil, the local witch, a grudge from the next town over, a scandal with the local clergy, or just bad luck.
I think perhaps you guys are falling into the same trap you’re talking about.
Dont know about you, but I would love to be on some of those battlefields with my broadsword.
No I don't think so, as much as I hate modern culture I don't think I'll be better during medieval times
Living in the medieval times would be cool 😂
If you were healthy and had good pearly whites.
Edit. And if your loved ones were likewise in good position. It's hell to see the people you love suffer.
They didn’t have toothpaste, running water, anaesthetic, medicine, soap, motorised transport or electricity. For starters. It would have sucked.
Only if you are rich
@@TuscanBrick yeah good point, the average citizen in the western world is richer than the richest kings in those times
@@MrDanielvass you dont need toothpaste for clean teeth, dont need running water if you have wells, medicine was alot more primitive than it is nowadays, there were ways of getting something simillar to soap back in the day, just not chemicals out of a bottle... fuck motorized transport, you had horses and mules for a reason... and life was way more local than it is nowadays where everything is pretty much fragmented save for lines on a map that tell you this is where "home ends"...
Pre feminism, pre LGBTQ+, pre BlackRock, pre WEF, pre UN, no globalist bureaucrats, no big pharmaceutical companies trying to get as many people needing to use their drugs as possible. They were the lucky ones who lived in those times. I envy them. Back when a wife would have actually been a proper wife.
¿Wouldn't these "Alpha's" being really unlikeable by simply trying to coerce others? Even if you are really strong just a small group of weak men can overpower you.
The idea of women being easier to get was very much true until 2008, there is no need to fantasise about 20.008 B.C.E. But the reason for this is the looks-based nature of swiping rather than online dating itself. Ugly and awkward men can get girlfriends online, just not where looks are paramount.
For instance like. Like? I require more please. He's defending now because the past would have precluded him.
I agree with the premise but you guys reasoning shows u know nothing about things like agriculture etc... I still grow food with out any fertilizer etc... However I think they are wrong to think they could grow food and not for instance have most of it stolen or given to the land owner or king ....
Most would have been peasants, forced to work the land and live of the scraps provided by their land owner. Regularly beaten and starved. Remember only notability and the land owners were allowed in armies, unless they needed fodder.
This makes as much sense as flat earth, holy crap.
No toxic feminism, identity politics or woke BS.
Nature is not - and never was - aligned with our best interests.
In regards to saying if men now aren't successful with women they wouldn't have been several hundred years ago. On a personal note I was quite successful with women perhaps 4 or 5 years ago and have gotten less and less until now I have not been able to get a date with someone I find desirable for almost 2 years. This is despite the fact that I'm now significantly more successful and put together than those years ago. So I'd argue on a personal level at least things have changed significantly in just our lifetime even. So going back a decade or so would be good for me haha
I don't think this guest understands what right wing is
Just lose your home air conditioning for one summer day... that's the end of the fantasy.
Audio at the end sucks
one thing that i would ask these men. could you run 5 miles in 30 minutes? Could you do a mile, easy. Do 50+ push-ups, 20+ pull-ups?
If their answer would be generally no, i can’t because xyz. then i doubt you have that dog in you to survive
You just had to worry about food shelter and the overlord taking it from you.
If so they should move to Paisley in Scotland.
In other news:
2 women and a 14 yo son died frozen and starved in Colorado.
Essentially mummified.
Leave your delusions behind: Nature has particular love for your sack of body chemistry.
It wasn't like video games. Only the strong men got the women unless the women was raped for being on the wrong side in a siege. You were expected to "man up" all the time. It was a matter of life and death.
Happiness is an inside job. If you are not happy, it is your own fault. Fix yourself before trying to fix the world.
Julius caesar was far from strong. So that's not true at all.
@@bradwhitt6768 He dismounted and fought beside his men at Alesium. He swam the Nile during the flood season at the port of Alexandria to escape Egyptian rebels. I doubt if you could have kept up with him.
@@randywise5241 And yet he wasn't the strongest man in the army. Nothing you said disproves what I have said. You people act as those the strongest men always win and that's not the case.
@@bradwhitt6768 "You people"?? I was only stating historical facts. You have issues.
Honestly - average healthy modern men, are stronger than ur average historic man (after returning to monkey); at a biological level.
Using the US military research for instance, while on average we socially have declined in health, with modern conditioning knowledge and appropriate diet, marines in the 2000’s are significantly larger, and physically stronger than their counterparts in the 1940’.
Unfortunately it is often the view of the envious and those who jerked away their potential to glorify that “we would be great if xyz was out of our way”…. But they forget that modernity is what allows dysgenics to survive.
Huh?.........no one was better off during medieval times. It was a terrible time to be alive. Even kings lived in constant fear of being deposed and murdered by those closest to them, which happened often.
I'm curious as to why you think it was terrible?
That's exactly the point. Today the men at the top don't have to worry about anything. In those days they did. Julius Caesar wasn't a strong burly man but he conquered most of the world with his mind.