I forgot to mention at 1:23:30 in the discussion about what attracts INFPs and INTJs, that in addition to INFPs being drawn to our Te, we have the Fi draw. INTJs have child Fi so they are drawn to the dominant Fi of the INFPs. I SOOO ADMIRE their deep, nuanced analysis of values that is often just so right! And of course so stimulating to ponder, like they are mentor for my Fi. It's analogous to what Joyce said about INFJs child Ti being drawn to INTP dom Ti. I also wanted to say that I am attracted to INFJs for their AMAZING ability to read nuance in people and their general wisdom. I am absolutely awed by this! It's incredible how well they read people AND the depth and truth with which they analyze and understand cultural and other human patterns. It seems like magic to me. And I delight at how they can hold their own, challenge and expand with me in Ni conversations, which no other type can do. And I love how INTPs have such objective, deep thinking with their Ti. And they always surprise me with a new twist on an idea, catalyzing me to different considerations, something I really appreciate as an Ni user who can sometimes get a little stuck. INFPs provide this as well.
This was the best❤️ It's kinda hard for us IN types to find people willing to have these deep intellectual conversations with out in the real world so videos like this are really helpful in reminding us that we do have a community of people with mutual understanding we belong to as opposed to just brushing the edge of "normal' society in our day to day life.
Hell yeah. Joyce has made a good community here. I'm usually down to talk to people in voice/video chat any time, but I always look forward to doing one of these videos.
Joyce, you nailed it again. I love the group you chose. I am INTJ, have an INFJ daughter and an INFP son. I loved seeing everyone interact and ping pong back and forth. It was easy to see the similarities and differences. I think this video really helped me to understand who I am better and understand my adult children and how I relate to them currently and how I can alter my behavior to forge better relationships. As always your choices of panel and questions are top notch. Thanks again for a super helpful video!💗
I realized at 24:10 when Joyce asked about the Te being taken the wrong way that I might have sounded confusing because I contradicted myself saying that people thought I was rude (for example) when using Te but then I also had said using Te helped me connect better with them. I should have clarified that although Te gave me a channel with which to connect with some people (thinkers), it didn't work with everyone. And with those others, usually high-level sensing types, they would think I was too boring or intense and with the feelers as well they would misunderstand my intentions. Also with the feelers, I came across as too blunt or too direct. I was once called "charmingly rude" by a friend in grad school. So it was necessary to also develop the Fe skills. So, now I can usually find some way to connect with most people (the non-intuitives that is) either using either Te or Fe.
I have never heard anyone else describe the INTJ Fi as perfectly as Christian did at 21:00. I'm an INTJ, and one of the things that I have done to kindof protect my sensitive Fi is that I am covered in tattoos, and a large part of the reason for it is because I want to be perceived as tough/stoic/etc vs soft/caring/empathetic person that I actually identify as.
It’s really funny hearing Holly talk about intensity because I suffer from the exact same issue. The fact that she got a job to learn to socialize properly with people is 100% me as well. I got a job serving on the casino floor where I had to dress up, hair and makeup, the whole shebang just because I wanted to get better at socializing and connecting with people. My friends in college were SHOCKED because it was very much the opposite of who I am. I sucked at the job, made great money, and learned how to act around people because logic doesn’t work everywhere. I’m still told that I’m super intense but I guess it’s still a work in progress.
"We have something we can't get anywhere else..." "...with the INs there's this very deep understanding somehow. It's very metaphysical, mystical and abstract..." "We're more on the same level here, for sure..." "It's like the meeting of aliens..." Thank you, everyone, for putting into words why this INFP loves all the intuitive introverts the best of all types. The INs always have trouble fitting in with the rest of the world, but finding each other is like finding for the first time a place where you can belong.
You guys, this has been one of the most interesting talks in Joyce's channel for me. What a great combination of people -you seem to fit together discussion wise.
I find it a scary thing being "detached" as an INFJ...to be thoroughly detached from others is not a pleasant thought...thank goodness for Fe which at least helps me warmly engage with people...and then try and not look at them like a bug under a magnifying glass...LOVE is the answer for all types, us included :) And thanks so much Holly. I have a good friend who is an INTJ and we have always just been in different universes at times...I have gained an extra insight from what you have shared :)
I just feel very comfortable when there is an INFP speaking. I'm an INTJ so this might be the Ni-Ne counterbalancing relation. But I feel it's more about the Fi function. INFPs are very natural at conveying their feelings within words.
I loved all of this, one important aspect to add and that was already discussed is that Ne is constantly ruminating! When Ne has an epiphany, a realization or is trying to be actively self aware, it is hard to move on from that realization. While Ni can reach a conclusion and move on. Ne is constantly in reflective mode and it's hard to escape that introspection sometimes. I think it can also be difficult to move on from all that theorizing which is why it's difficult for INxPs to execute their ideas into the real world. INxPs are the visionaries and can be kinda sluggish and slothish when it comes to taking action
While the fact that indeed Ni more easily stops ruminating after reaching a conclusion might seem super awaresome, it does come with the downside that they can keep chasing after things that were just Ni dreams or Ni imaginations but are not like their imagination in real life. For example, if they had this dream as a kid to become a doctor, they might spend 20 years investing in becoming a doctor while in reality they might have actually stopped enjoying it 15 years ago. However, since they once fell in love with that idea, their Ni will still love that idea...but in reality, it is nothing like that idea. However, they've so grown into that idea that it feels hard for them to give it up, even though in reality they might hate being a doctor. Or they might once had a childhood crush on some person..so their life they will fantasize about how life would be with this person and they might at a later age still want find that person back and date that person again, because they once fell in love with the imagination. So while that person not really be as they imagined that person to be, they can to a degree project their idea of that person onto that person, rather than seeing that person for who that person really is in reality. People with the Ne/Si axis might have other issues like not knowing where to go, but they have the benfit of do not falling in love with ideas and do not see reality because they project ideas or imaginations on top of reality, which clouds the judgement of reality. Ne/Si will judge things in life on whether they actually experience joy from them in reality (with Si) rather than just idea of joy. So while Ne/Si might not perceive to know where they are really going, it is a more beneficial function stack to eventually recognise to pick the thing you actually like or want in reality.
The NE having great ideas and pairing with others that can execute those ideas was a brilliant take away from this video. I see very much when I as an INTJ talk to my son that is an INFP that he can sort through my craziness and point me in a new direction and rights my ship so to speak and in a safe space with no judging but just warm fuzziness. I love that.
Damn. As an ENTP, I feel personally attacked watching this lmao. I can definitely relate to wanting to just consume the gist of something and not wanting to go through the diminishing returns.
I’m an INTP and I dated an INFP, we watched something on Netflix and it reminded us of the exact same thing, one of us would say something and the other would say that they were thinking the same thing, this happened all the time.
Like Spacey said, me dropping ideas on the ground like a jar of screws. There is a little voice in my head that tell me I will get back to this idea. That's why I left it on the ground in that spot... Most of the time I don't get back to them lol. -Ne
22:52 my ENTJ dad experiences that, Holly. The man has so much love and help in his heart, but he’s so direct that people feel threatened or controlled by it. Sorry you had to go through that.
I am so drawn to the INFP insights! And i got tested as an INFP in 16 personalities. His Insights are like a electricity flowing and lighting lightbulbs in my head
(INFP) Identify strongly with Spacey's indication of the tendency for Si experience to come along and absolutely blow away the Ne speculation. I don't think my Ne ever got -anything- right for my Fi, ahead of time, about my love-life preferences over 20 years, but the Si memories and hindsight, even quite short-term, would be a powerful revelation time and time again. Ne/ Si together however... pretty good now at predicting what food I'll like though, though still far from perfect. X)
I'm an INFP but the judgements don't seem to come quickly for me. And I often don't remember why I believe something to be true. I usually remember what I believe, but not how I came to that conclusion.
same it becaues our mind work like to get to what he need and it Creates a full branching of information and data about the person between what he feels what he says he likes and how he behaves and more ... So we complete the puzzle which is a kind of expectation or code towards that person and once we have the code of about how person / case Acts according to our thinking so we erase the path to solution and remember the answer and learn something new most often when I think I understand something I understand it well enough for me if no I just learn and read until I reach the result of understanding -inXp got 53 feeling and 47 thinking but i think i am intp but i still reading about it to learn it
It's so interesting noticing the ticks and turns of how people react to one another. I love how balanced and generating this conversation was, just the right amount of anxiety, openness, clarity and humour.
In particular the fascinating part was the explanation of Ne or Ni as a function inside the ego stack, whether it can be used DELIBERATELY, and thus draining, or reverted to by default and empowering.
This panel is a safe space for me. Really comforting. - I always get INTP . But I think that part where Spacey said that he needs to have an experience to know if it'll work or not makes me think that I am not an INTP. Because I always know beforehand if I'll like something or someone - if they are a good fit. I can see how a relationship is gonna go with someone in future - how it might end up. Or a situation - how it might progress.
I really enjoyed listening to all the IN's, especially about how we all can go with each other's flow- talk about those weird, dark or deep things. It was also interesting to hear all the differences.
But I wanted to add: Joyce, I LOVE what you are doing here. I listened to this & drew alongside it so happily and laughed along & got really inspired to continue my Ni narrowing vision understanding my traits & quirks as an INFJ. Thank you for not "dumbing down" the cognitive function talk also and assuming the listener knows nothing about it. You led the talk in such a natural & refreshing way by guiding along a passionate, natural discussion instead of trying to force content out of these awesome people. And as a result, you got A++ content. Thank you!!! I'm going to watch so many of your vids now while drawing.
This is a huge compliment!! Thank you, Meorow. 🙂 Thank you for your kind words. It is nice to know that you like listening while drawing. That brings me happiness to know that.
1:04:25 The completeness of an idea sounds very much like an Ni thing. Ti-Ne relentlessly pursues the end of an idea but it doesn't really ever get there. That's a big reason why INTP's have a hard time pursuing an idea because it never feels done. (That's what it feels like to me.)
Hello Joyce I love your videos It is so fascinating for me to see the differences between Fe And Fi. I Can confirm that an infj are cold inside. People always say that I am a vey worm person but I do not feel that way at all. I Do not feel Fe as "me" it just happens whether I want it or not. I can be in a very bad mood but if I see another person my face will smile :)
32:30 this is why I always say “just do it” to myself, but would never say it forcefully to an INFP or INTP… at least not on purpose. I really feel for you here. Like, you need to experience it, but indecision that’s overrun by decision-thru-guilt can be incredibly cruel. Encouraging words, sure, but ultimately you need to push your own self to be true to your own Fi or Ti.
This was such a brain buzz for me to watch… straight shot to the brain, as an INFP. Thank you. There was something Joyce had mentioned about Ni having a kind of calm quality as it’s honing in. For myself, there are contexts where I experience what I call my Inner Flame when relating to people in a way where I feel a kind of deep love for them in that moment. It usually happens when they’re sharing some deep or very sensitive or vulnerable part of themselves, I’ll start to feel really connected. A calm, yet intense radiating warmth will well up within my chest, and throughout my body (maybe an oxytocin flood), and I’ll feel deeply moved as I am listening (kind of like experiencing great music). In that moment of interaction with another, I have a strong sense of “this is what I am meant to be doing for this moment in time.” To really be fully present (at least from my perspective within) with the other person, based on what’s going on. A kind of intimate sacred space that we’re sharing.
1:03:15 This. It is still really hard for me to go back to the state of not knowing about something and, for some reason, I tend to assume other people already know that (I know it's really weird) so I have to backtrack and remind myself that just because I know it doesn't mean other people do
This is one of the greatest challenges of life. Especially for people who advance more than others intellectually, and, for obvious reasons, becomes a greater and greater issue as you get older - more and more people can't understand/get you. Solution, I think: keep with your equals & similars. (incl. age 😅).
Awesome! Loved it. Joyce, I felt represented when you couldn't explain your train of thoughts. I'm a PhD student and I was conceptualizing my study, my professor was amazed about an original idea that I had in relation to a database, but when I tried to logically think about how it comes to me I simply couldn't. This idea just happened to me. Now I think that it can be Ni. This usually happens in random moments, usually surrounded by boredom. Sorry for my english mistakes If I did. Hugs from Brazil. An INFJ.
What's interesting is the difference in the judgers and the observers, as it seems (to me at least) easier to get to know Ti and Fi judging dominants than the Ni perceiving dominants, possibly even more so because these 2 judgers are introverted and Fi and Ti are functions so tied to the core of people. So you get lots of "opinions" from listening to them (whether you like it or not of course) However, maybe perceiving dominants experience this differently as they might perceive that getting to know someone means you know their observations rather than their judgements? (perceiving doms, what do you think?) To be clear: I mean Ti and FI as judgers and Ni as perceivers (so not the mbti judging vs perceiver names)
Yeah judgers are easier to pin down in general, judging fucntions are more a part of the individual while observers are just the lens wich you see the world. But judging influence observations and formulate decisions so calling them rationals make sense cause they are more « concrete » and coherent for the individual, observers being more straight up processes. We can say that Ji are also more honest in general so it’s easier to know the real them even tho it’s harder to know the nuances in an introvert.
@@PowerRedBullTypology Just that it may be harder to have a great read on them because they have more internal processes or revolve around it more. But its just a general rule, Ne and Fe are good at tricking you too, even tho it is more obvisous that they are doing it over time. Less talk = less time knowing them, etc for introverts.
On the topic of Ni ideas vs. Ne ideas that begins at 48:50 I recall that Objective Personality made a video response to Joyce and touched on this during a discussion of Ti vs. Te in their video here: ruclips.net/video/K_ZOaWVG3O0/видео.html (discussion starts at around 5:05 and ends around 6:54)
Sorry Joyce, for missing what you were getting at with the discussion about how your Fe/Ti affects your long-term thinking (and not being driven by your personal desires but rather the collective). I was really tired (and nervous) and was still stuck in that moment in my internal thoughts of how to describe Ni so I missed what you were saying until Cristian and Spacey started talking about the coldness of Ti. I wish I could go back and respond to that again because I DO get what you were saying. It made perfect sense to me. It's easy for me to understand what you meant because my Mom was like that as well so I grew up with that and she and I had those discussions many times over the years. And, I contradicted myself saying that Te was how I related to people better but I also said that it caused conflicts. I should have clarified that I found that Te was my way of extroverting so that I could find a way to interact with people (otherwise I was far too introverted and quiet to interact much at all). Te gave me that ability to engage with people. But with that also came the problem of once I started having those interactions, it also came with the conflicts you normally see with Te. So I had to hone it.
25:10 ish. right on the money, Spacey! Introverts I know, particularly IxTx introverts, have a hard time knowing when the person they are talking to has lost interest or never had interest to begin with. Whereas as an Se user, I see this IMMEDIATELY and don’t really ever experience that. Kinda kills my passion, though, so I envy the IxTx tunnel obsession.
Im half on the video now and i just have to comment how IN types are scary intelligent, i feel like im not one of you. The ideas and understanding, the insights and how they put all the ideas in a concrete thought by NJs are so amazing
Thank you hanjesse31. As they say, it takes one to know one so you must be smart too! How old are you? If you're young, give yourself some time. A lot of that just comes with age. Experience is a great teacher.
@@hfortenberry Oh, thank you very much too. I don't really think i am that smart. I am 24 years old already but yes i think still lack lots of experience. Hearing all your insights and experiences in the interview is really engaging and i think lots of us will take something from it and use it to be a better communicator and understanding perspective from different angles by enhancing our natural talents and also learning that we all need each other to learn and grow.
I'm an INTP female. All of these types are *my people*--family members, friends, people toward whom I instinctively gravitate, etc. This conversation is my life.
Like this alot! and alle 4 of you great type casting, can truly see the types: and thinking: yes thats just how an Infp is and an Intj and an Intp, and feeling sorry Joyce since I am an Infj myself and rather be one of the 3 others. Especially want to be Intp. And so true the infj looks warm and all feeling but it is all Ni so they are alot colder insight, a cold and plannend -wanting the best for Fe- Also lot mistake infj for a traditional fi user, the feeling type, but it is much more ti we like to us. Cause for an infj fe is so exhausting thats why, Ni-Ti loop so great to be in. My Entp daugter just comes up with these ungoing idears love it I habe few Idears but I need them desparately yo use my Ni. So Ne is for me like a jar with lots of cookies and I can just find the nicest one and finding out what the ingredients are and make a organize the ingredients in a recipe, the whole proces is Yummy,! great example: hand full screws....
Predicting the future is not really an Ni thing but rather an Ne thing. Ni is so often associated with future predictions, while one could argue that it's not correct, as Ni more deals with their own future rather than 'the' future in the common sense of the word. Ni is more about ones own path and following that path or direction in order to realise a vision. However, if someone predicts their house wil have a violet color and then they themselves will color it violet, it's not really a "prediction" in the common sense of the word. This is of course because they have made it come true themselves. Ne on the other hand does deal with predicting the future of the world around them (as far that is possible) by looking at all the patterns in the external world and predicting how they could play out. So when 3 patterns in the external world interact with eachother, Ne will "imagine" how they will collide with eachother and what the result of that collision is likely going to be be. However, since in the external world there are a lot of patterns interacting with eachother, Ne realistically knows it can never know for sure if what they predict will come true so it will not give 1 clear answer (since that would not be realistic). Ne will always gravitate to that what is unknown in the external world and will loose it's interest when it becomes known (because then it stops being Ne territory and becomes Se territory). So Ne might predict based on some abstract patterns it observers in the external world that a certain thing will become a trend/hype the next year and feel excited by the idea of that prediction. However, if it actually becomes a trend next year, Ne will not feel attracted towards interacting with that trend (like exploiting a trend like making a business) since if it has become a fully realised reality, it becomes Se territory. So as soon as something becomes a trend in reality (like a certain hype) then Se doms will more likely jump on it to and might start a business doing that). Then the Ne dom will already be thinking about what's going to happen next year. Basically Ni is about 'should' be and Ne is about what 'could' be Ne = about what is the world around you going to do (objective) Ni = about what am I going to do (subjective) Ni = more personally invested in what they think should be (attached) Ne = not personally invested in what they think could happen (detached) Ni= ignores what the external world will likely do, but know their role in their ideas (attender) Ne = unaware of what their personal role should be, but aware of what is more or less likely going to happen (observer)
@Mohamad Hamzah Yeah, I agree Mohamad. As an INTJ, I can easily predict things that are unrelated to my own goals or life. I see massive networks of patterns in the world related to anything I study at depth and many things that also just get absorbed constantly via my Se. The predictions are not limited to my own patterns constructed to fulfill my Fi/Te goals. Power Red Bull, you may be describing more lower-stack Ni. Perhaps it works that way for ISFPs for example. But Ni doms absolutely predict things outside of their subjective/attached framework.
Higher stack Ni sees the underlying interaction patterns just like Ne. The difference for me as an INFJ Ni user is it leads me to see the 'intuitively probable' result from a particular interaction. Like the expression "The House always wins" does not mean that every casino patron will lose money (some might win $1Million dollars). It just means that over time the odds are in favor of the house. Ne knows correctly that nothing is guaranteed. In fact I've suffered because I did not have the Ne to protect myself from bad possibilities because I blindly followed the 'odds' and assumed it was a guarantee. Ne also seems better able to handle changes when things don't go as expected. Takes longer to regroup as an Ni user. Because Se is inherently tied to Ni I can see the likelihood of certain patterns, think when they are set up in a particular order they lead to a disaster, and work to change it. Because I consider physics and the emotional patterns of humans as mostly frozen to change I must creatively think of how I can reliably increase the odds of a positive outcome over time. Where 'how humans work' and physics are in harmony with humanity's goal of a positive outcome. Ni sees the world like a combination Lego/plumbing project. Design whatever you like as long as it naturally flows and doesn't burst the pipes. The world seems full of people who ignore gravity flow, try to put firehose pressure into a garden hose, and other things. And if you can design whatever you like, why not make something that lasts and matters to others. I think INTJ's might be more practical and less focused on the people part compared to INFJ's. In short, we need each other's perspective. I know I need Ne and Fi perspective in particular. Otherwise we miss a part of the puzzle. As complex as everything in the world is, we can only understand a portion of how this universe works (and could work). * Ni has a Newtonian Physics-like view of the world, Ne is like quantum physics!
@@EDventureous All in all, I think iNtuition IN GENERAL makes it easier to make predictions. I think Redbull importantly brings attention to the often over-exaggerated association between Ni and the future/future predictions. However he did perhaps fail to note the potential breadth of Ni's focus. I think EDventureous actually wrote a rather good explanation of the differences between them, and comparing them to Newtonian vs Quantum physics was pretty clever.
Funny you mention that. While I don't really see much resemblance, I've been told a few times over the decades that I resemble Meryl Streep. We both talk sort of slowly, so maybe it's that.
as an Ne/Se dom I feel like its in my DNA to ignore the risks of doing things. It's important for me to experiencing life in my own multiple subjective lenses.
1:19:52 Personally, I also need to attach ideas to a overall structure when discussing things, otherwise i can pretty easily get disoriented. So, for me, It's a way of keeping the control and not loose the "abstract" orientation and get dizzy.
@@s.u.5285 Definitely! Like for INTJ, types 5 and 1 are most common, but if the less common types were in the mix as well, that could be illuminating. There's for sure some fun discussion to be had in comparing those with a greater focus on seeking perfectionism (1) vs idea-generating (5). I mean, an INTJ already comes across as 'intense' stereotypically (and I would bet we type 1s are probably the worse of that lol) but yeah, would love to see how different people who operate similarly target what they innately consider a higher priority. Good stuff!
@S. U. Yeah, I have tested both ways, 5w4 and 5w6. Recently I tested as 5w4 and yes I do ignore social norms when possible. I could not care less about them much to the chagrin of my ENTJ Dad and ESFJ stepmom, LOL. And artistic pursuits hold special meaning in my heart if not my actions but I'm more concerned with security than exerting my individuality. I'm already very confident in my uniqueness given that I'm a lesbian and have always felt totally weird and out of touch with everyone so I don't feel any need to assert that further. I'm already being myself. I've had pet rats and eschewed makeup when it was not the norm in my group and started using my own shopping bags in 2005 when nobody thought it was cool. Back then I was just this weird lady that people stared at in the grocery line for using reusable bags. LOL But none of that is of concern to me. In my heart, I just don't care much about fitting in. But, "The Troubleshooter" description and other readings of 5w6 feel like a better fit for me. I'm all about proven established systems that make me more efficient or effective such as the Scientific Method for example and my creativity is toward creating optimal systems. For example I once created a new web design markup framework back in 2006. Given the quick pace of web des/dev, it was quickly over-taken by newer systems but it was a fun creative pursuit. When I was younger, I was much more creative with arts and crafts (drawing mainly) and focused on "finding myself" but I've never been "freewheeling" or prone to playing devil's advocate as you see with the 5w4s/INTPs. I just bought The Wisdom of the Enneagram by Don Riso and Russ Hudson so perhaps that will help me narrow it down once and for all.
I relate so heavily to Holly in trickster Fe, being almost naive and ignorant of other people's feelings and social expectations, and needing to study MBTI, Enneagram, and general psychology just to get some kind of foothold not to fall off the cliff of social interaction, as some kind of scaffolding. "Wasn't what people want to talk about". It hurt me a lot growing up, but now it's almost acceptable as an adult. Thank you for all the talks Joyce, I love all of these, they are so effective and helpful 💛 We appreciate you! - Official MBTI, INTJ 5w4 SP/SX 548/541 ✌🏼 💕
As an INTP I instictinvely want to experience the pleasure of variation (Ne) of understanding and ideas (Ti) so it's not the last domino. I want to know that there will be a lot of pleasing variation of the entire row of dominos or I'll want to pick another row of dominos. And if I feel like I can extrapolate more or less how that variation will play out its no longer interesting so I'll look for another row.
@@Slippernips It's how I play computer games :-) If i can "See through the game" i lose interest. If i can still find variation and suprises in how it will work out I will play again. For instance playing Civilization 5 again and again trying to find new developments and variations in strategy.
Nice video. I would add a bit of a caution. It was mentioned that every INTJ encountered talks about how important Fi is to them. The caution is that probably the INTJs one encounters in talking about types are those who emphasize their Fi; it may or may not apply to all INTJs (and probably doesn't). INTJs who like to talk about types are a self-selected group.
This group and conversation feels at home for me. It energized me and comforts me. My INTP partner tries to convince me I’m an INFJ but I doubt it but being here among the IxxJs and IxxPs talking really does confirm where I belong. It’s so relieving to know where like minded individuals exist. I feel IxxPs use that word “nagging” a lot. 😆 As an INFJ, I go through an existential crisis when things don’t pan out... like when my marriage ended or my job that I loved closed but Ni locks into our goals and Joyce is right about us not appreciating distractions. We can focus our ENERGY on one thing and we are always paying more attention on the destination rather than the journey. Ni can have 50 tabs open but we are only using 1 or 2... that’s where my focus goes in research. My IxxP partner can hone in on information and apply what is useful and dismiss what is not but IxxJs use a wide breadth of information and funnels it which means a research paper for an IxxP can take way less time to do than for an IxxJ. Ni is very detached and it’s funny because people will ascribe those birds’ eye views to our identity personally and we have to defend that our socio-cultural view is objective and we could care less. I loved that you guys talked about IxxJs have the empirical data and using the scientific method to “test” as we go. Working with an IxxP he can do things a bit wonky where I’m like, “But you have to define your variables before you can create the measurement!!! That’s just how you accurately and reliably test things!!!” And he’ll be like, “ yeah whatever...”
Fascinating. It almost sounds like Ni is more parable based, while Ne is more metaphor based. Ne relates an idea or a feeling to other ideas/feelings using imagery instead of relying on specific anecdotes (as opposed to Se), meanwhile Ni relates an idea or feeling within a story using imagery instead of relying on specific anecdotes.
@@JoyceMeng22 You're welcome 💕 I enjoyed it. I am new to mbti and very curious. Still trying to figure out cognitive functions. My MBTI type in 16 personalities is INFP. I like the structures like this, i get a view of the different kinds intuitive introverts and where they differ exactly. If there is one thing in common, i would say you are all highly intelligent. I am still not sure where i relate more because there are bits a pieces in the discussion that i relate to inxp specially the scattered ideas and to inxj that that is seeing the whole picture even with small details. Or I might be an ISFP or other introverted type.
I love how you can see parts of their personality in their environment and clothes. Are the books Te? Is that shirt Ti? Is that thoughtful outfit and appearance Fe? Is the lack of focus on hair INXP :P
An INFJ taking notes, don't mind me - 17:35 Joyce's crying laugh! Oh I feel that. Following by what's best for me personally & not conforming to society's standards/ my monetary needs / what other people think I ought to do. 47:25: Itch to know what the point is of an Ne conversation. Yes. 49:35: NI: Ideas are my babies. Ne: jar of screws, I reach in and grab a handful and scatter a few all over the place. Yes. 57:20 Ne = momentum. Yes!! Then, Ni settling down into a tranquility with an idea "A pond is settling within me" vs Ne = increasing energy w/ idea, grows frantic as it develops. 1:01:30 INFP feels centered in values, not ideas. Specifically values reaching a concrete affirmation/inclusion/security in the real world = centered. 1:20:20: Ni = meta structure to encompass all structures. Ne = all structures on same plane. 1:34:45: INFJs like a cool mist.
I'm an INFJ. I've always had an idea of who I want to be when "I grow up" but struggled with the "how" to get there because it doesn't work with convention (or capitalism for that matter). When I look in the future, I imagine myself as someone like Maya Angelou and creating a collective/collaborative community of misfits (but not a cult lol). There's not really a degree/career path for that. It's like I'm looking at a map, can identify where I am and the destination, maybe narrowed down to taking a train or plane but I don't know where the airport is or how to get a ticket...
@@Magani79 where’s the hate? I’m allowed to not be a fan of his. All I said is it’s refreshing to have a different INTJ on the show. Since you really want to know, Every other type has an array of people except the INTJ. He’s got the same stories and perspectives. I can sum up his life story in 8 words damn near. Holly is much more mature and relatable as an INTJ. She’s grown through the challenges. She has/is experienced life. Personally, I’d like to see more of Holly or even Holly and that guy together because there’s a difference between how they’ve managed to navigate the world. The guy doesn’t seem like he’s had an easy time managing. Holly learned very early that she has to adapt and that’s what makes her the INTJ for me.
I forgot to mention at 1:23:30 in the discussion about what attracts INFPs and INTJs, that in addition to INFPs being drawn to our Te, we have the Fi draw. INTJs have child Fi so they are drawn to the dominant Fi of the INFPs. I SOOO ADMIRE their deep, nuanced analysis of values that is often just so right! And of course so stimulating to ponder, like they are mentor for my Fi. It's analogous to what Joyce said about INFJs child Ti being drawn to INTP dom Ti.
I also wanted to say that I am attracted to INFJs for their AMAZING ability to read nuance in people and their general wisdom. I am absolutely awed by this! It's incredible how well they read people AND the depth and truth with which they analyze and understand cultural and other human patterns. It seems like magic to me. And I delight at how they can hold their own, challenge and expand with me in Ni conversations, which no other type can do.
And I love how INTPs have such objective, deep thinking with their Ti. And they always surprise me with a new twist on an idea, catalyzing me to different considerations, something I really appreciate as an Ni user who can sometimes get a little stuck. INFPs provide this as well.
This was so fun you guys! The time flew by and I didn't want it to end. Thanks again Joyce for including me.
Anytime! I loved having you on. :) You offer such a valuable perspective to our conversations. Happy to have chatted
Yeah it was great hanging out with you guys! This was a fantastic panel, rivaling the IXXPs if not surpassing it.
This was the best❤️ It's kinda hard for us IN types to find people willing to have these deep intellectual conversations with out in the real world so videos like this are really helpful in reminding us that we do have a community of people with mutual understanding we belong to as opposed to just brushing the edge of "normal' society in our day to day life.
Hell yeah. Joyce has made a good community here. I'm usually down to talk to people in voice/video chat any time, but I always look forward to doing one of these videos.
Yes!
Joyce, you’re on the roll girl. Can’t wait to watch after work! Yay for IN’s! -INFP
Your eagerness to watch is much appreciated! 🙂 Hope you liked it, chickletmonstah!
INFJS are very good with people. That’s something I have seen
Very, one of their most admirable qualities
Joyce, you nailed it again. I love the group you chose. I am INTJ, have an INFJ daughter and an INFP son. I loved seeing everyone interact and ping pong back and forth. It was easy to see the similarities and differences. I think this video really helped me to understand who I am better and understand my adult children and how I relate to them currently and how I can alter my behavior to forge better relationships. As always your choices of panel and questions are top notch. Thanks again for a super helpful video!💗
That's quite the family dynamic :) glad you liked the video!! Thank you for the kind words, Valerie
I realized at 24:10 when Joyce asked about the Te being taken the wrong way that I might have sounded confusing because I contradicted myself saying that people thought I was rude (for example) when using Te but then I also had said using Te helped me connect better with them. I should have clarified that although Te gave me a channel with which to connect with some people (thinkers), it didn't work with everyone. And with those others, usually high-level sensing types, they would think I was too boring or intense and with the feelers as well they would misunderstand my intentions. Also with the feelers, I came across as too blunt or too direct. I was once called "charmingly rude" by a friend in grad school. So it was necessary to also develop the Fe skills. So, now I can usually find some way to connect with most people (the non-intuitives that is) either using either Te or Fe.
I would gladly watch a bunch of videos with this panel
INFP 4w5s are
Wonderful! So happy you enjoyed, @TheAwakenedINFJ!! ^-^
I have never heard anyone else describe the INTJ Fi as perfectly as Christian did at 21:00. I'm an INTJ, and one of the things that I have done to kindof protect my sensitive Fi is that I am covered in tattoos, and a large part of the reason for it is because I want to be perceived as tough/stoic/etc vs soft/caring/empathetic person that I actually identify as.
It’s really funny hearing Holly talk about intensity because I suffer from the exact same issue. The fact that she got a job to learn to socialize properly with people is 100% me as well. I got a job serving on the casino floor where I had to dress up, hair and makeup, the whole shebang just because I wanted to get better at socializing and connecting with people. My friends in college were SHOCKED because it was very much the opposite of who I am. I sucked at the job, made great money, and learned how to act around people because logic doesn’t work everywhere. I’m still told that I’m super intense but I guess it’s still a work in progress.
"We have something we can't get anywhere else..."
"...with the INs there's this very deep understanding somehow. It's very metaphysical, mystical and abstract..."
"We're more on the same level here, for sure..."
"It's like the meeting of aliens..."
Thank you, everyone, for putting into words why this INFP loves all the intuitive introverts the best of all types. The INs always have trouble fitting in with the rest of the world, but finding each other is like finding for the first time a place where you can belong.
You guys, this has been one of the most interesting talks in Joyce's channel for me. What a great combination of people -you seem to fit together discussion wise.
I find it a scary thing being "detached" as an INFJ...to be thoroughly detached from others is not a pleasant thought...thank goodness for Fe which at least helps me warmly engage with people...and then try and not look at them like a bug under a magnifying glass...LOVE is the answer for all types, us included :) And thanks so much Holly. I have a good friend who is an INTJ and we have always just been in different universes at times...I have gained an extra insight from what you have shared :)
Thank you. I'm glad it helped.
I just feel very comfortable when there is an INFP speaking. I'm an INTJ so this might be the Ni-Ne counterbalancing relation. But I feel it's more about the Fi function. INFPs are very natural at conveying their feelings within words.
I loved all of this, one important aspect to add and that was already discussed is that Ne is constantly ruminating! When Ne has an epiphany, a realization or is trying to be actively self aware, it is hard to move on from that realization. While Ni can reach a conclusion and move on. Ne is constantly in reflective mode and it's hard to escape that introspection sometimes. I think it can also be difficult to move on from all that theorizing which is why it's difficult for INxPs to execute their ideas into the real world. INxPs are the visionaries and can be kinda sluggish and slothish when it comes to taking action
While the fact that indeed Ni more easily stops ruminating after reaching a conclusion might seem super awaresome, it does come with the downside that they can keep chasing after things that were just Ni dreams or Ni imaginations but are not like their imagination in real life.
For example, if they had this dream as a kid to become a doctor, they might spend 20 years investing in becoming a doctor while in reality they might have actually stopped enjoying it 15 years ago.
However, since they once fell in love with that idea, their Ni will still love that idea...but in reality, it is nothing like that idea. However, they've so grown into that idea that it feels hard for them to give it up, even though in reality they might hate being a doctor.
Or they might once had a childhood crush on some person..so their life they will fantasize about how life would be with this person and they might at a later age still want find that person back and date that person again, because they once fell in love with the imagination. So while that person not really be as they imagined that person to be, they can to a degree project their idea of that person onto that person, rather than seeing that person for who that person really is in reality.
People with the Ne/Si axis might have other issues like not knowing where to go, but they have the benfit of do not falling in love with ideas and do not see reality because they project ideas or imaginations on top of reality, which clouds the judgement of reality.
Ne/Si will judge things in life on whether they actually experience joy from them in reality (with Si) rather than just idea of joy.
So while Ne/Si might not perceive to know where they are really going, it is a more beneficial function stack to eventually recognise to pick the thing you actually like or want in reality.
The NE having great ideas and pairing with others that can execute those ideas was a brilliant take away from this video. I see very much when I as an INTJ talk to my son that is an INFP that he can sort through my craziness and point me in a new direction and rights my ship so to speak and in a safe space with no judging but just warm fuzziness. I love that.
@@valerievaughn5495 together we will emerge victorious!
@@PowerRedBullTypology Great observation!
Ne ideas can be like Russian dolls. One opens up into another, and another, so you never know when you're done, lol.
Damn. As an ENTP, I feel personally attacked watching this lmao. I can definitely relate to wanting to just consume the gist of something and not wanting to go through the diminishing returns.
I’m an INTP and I dated an INFP, we watched something on Netflix and it reminded us of the exact same thing, one of us would say something and the other would say that they were thinking the same thing, this happened all the time.
Lovely conversation!!! - INFP
40:25 I’d say the exception to that is ESFP and ESTP. We just do stuff and see how it went. 🤷♂️
This was fun Joyce 😁. Spacey can be hilarious at times with his quirky descriptions
Like Spacey said, me dropping ideas on the ground like a jar of screws. There is a little voice in my head that tell me I will get back to this idea. That's why I left it on the ground in that spot... Most of the time I don't get back to them lol. -Ne
22:52 my ENTJ dad experiences that, Holly. The man has so much love and help in his heart, but he’s so direct that people feel threatened or controlled by it. Sorry you had to go through that.
I am so drawn to the INFP insights! And i got tested as an INFP in 16 personalities. His Insights are like a electricity flowing and lighting lightbulbs in my head
(INFP) Identify strongly with Spacey's indication of the tendency for Si experience to come along and absolutely blow away the Ne speculation. I don't think my Ne ever got -anything- right for my Fi, ahead of time, about my love-life preferences over 20 years, but the Si memories and hindsight, even quite short-term, would be a powerful revelation time and time again. Ne/ Si together however... pretty good now at predicting what food I'll like though, though still far from perfect. X)
I'm an INFP but the judgements don't seem to come quickly for me. And I often don't remember why I believe something to be true. I usually remember what I believe, but not how I came to that conclusion.
same it becaues our mind work like to get to what he need and it Creates a full branching of information and data about the person between what he feels what he says he likes and how he behaves and more ... So we complete the puzzle which is a kind of expectation or code towards that person and once we have the code of about how person / case Acts according to our thinking so we erase the path to solution and remember the answer and learn something new most often when I think I understand something I understand it well enough for me if no I just learn and read until I reach the result of understanding -inXp got 53 feeling and 47 thinking but i think i am intp but i still reading about it to learn it
@@joni-nv3el That's how I tested too. Csjoseph.life helped me figure out which one I was. He has his own test now if you want to try it out.
@@TheBittenBullet i did it and it say i am intp ...
It's so interesting noticing the ticks and turns of how people react to one another. I love how balanced and generating this conversation was, just the right amount of anxiety, openness, clarity and humour.
In particular the fascinating part was the explanation of Ne or Ni as a function inside the ego stack, whether it can be used DELIBERATELY, and thus draining, or reverted to by default and empowering.
So interesting watching the interactions, my sister is INTJ and I am INFP so it’s really cool to watch the interaction from this perceptive
This panel is a safe space for me. Really comforting. - I always get INTP . But I think that part where Spacey said that he needs to have an experience to know if it'll work or not makes me think that I am not an INTP. Because I always know beforehand if I'll like something or someone - if they are a good fit. I can see how a relationship is gonna go with someone in future - how it might end up. Or a situation - how it might progress.
32:00 This is why INTJs like INFPs look how that Fi dom makes her Fi child smile.
I really enjoyed listening to all the IN's, especially about how we all can go with each other's flow- talk about those weird, dark or deep things. It was also interesting to hear all the differences.
But I wanted to add: Joyce, I LOVE what you are doing here. I listened to this & drew alongside it so happily and laughed along & got really inspired to continue my Ni narrowing vision understanding my traits & quirks as an INFJ. Thank you for not "dumbing down" the cognitive function talk also and assuming the listener knows nothing about it. You led the talk in such a natural & refreshing way by guiding along a passionate, natural discussion instead of trying to force content out of these awesome people. And as a result, you got A++ content. Thank you!!! I'm going to watch so many of your vids now while drawing.
This is a huge compliment!! Thank you, Meorow. 🙂 Thank you for your kind words. It is nice to know that you like listening while drawing. That brings me happiness to know that.
1:04:25 The completeness of an idea sounds very much like an Ni thing. Ti-Ne relentlessly pursues the end of an idea but it doesn't really ever get there.
That's a big reason why INTP's have a hard time pursuing an idea because it never feels done.
(That's what it feels like to me.)
Hello Joyce I love your videos It is so fascinating for me to see the differences between Fe And Fi. I Can confirm that an infj are cold inside. People always say that I am a vey worm person but I do not feel that way at all. I Do not feel Fe as "me" it just happens whether I want it or not. I can be in a very bad mood but if I see another person my face will smile :)
32:30 this is why I always say “just do it” to myself, but would never say it forcefully to an INFP or INTP… at least not on purpose. I really feel for you here. Like, you need to experience it, but indecision that’s overrun by decision-thru-guilt can be incredibly cruel. Encouraging words, sure, but ultimately you need to push your own self to be true to your own Fi or Ti.
Thanks for understanding!! 💕💕
This was such a brain buzz for me to watch… straight shot to the brain, as an INFP. Thank you. There was something Joyce had mentioned about Ni having a kind of calm quality as it’s honing in. For myself, there are contexts where I experience what I call my Inner Flame when relating to people in a way where I feel a kind of deep love for them in that moment. It usually happens when they’re sharing some deep or very sensitive or vulnerable part of themselves, I’ll start to feel really connected. A calm, yet intense radiating warmth will well up within my chest, and throughout my body (maybe an oxytocin flood), and I’ll feel deeply moved as I am listening (kind of like experiencing great music). In that moment of interaction with another, I have a strong sense of “this is what I am meant to be doing for this moment in time.” To really be fully present (at least from my perspective within) with the other person, based on what’s going on. A kind of intimate sacred space that we’re sharing.
4:26 that’s a huge theme I’ve noticed with xNFP types. We have got your back, NFPs! ❤️
1:14:30 INTP gets fuzzy when they use their Ne - just so cute.
1:03:15
This. It is still really hard for me to go back to the state of not knowing about something and, for some reason, I tend to assume other people already know that (I know it's really weird) so I have to backtrack and remind myself that just because I know it doesn't mean other people do
This is one of the greatest challenges of life. Especially for people who advance more than others intellectually, and, for obvious reasons, becomes a greater and greater issue as you get older - more and more people can't understand/get you.
Solution, I think: keep with your equals & similars. (incl. age 😅).
So looking forward to this one. Love all these talks so much
48:00 learning to have more structure to my conversation and to talk in a step-wise fashion keeps more people on board
Awesome! Loved it. Joyce, I felt represented when you couldn't explain your train of thoughts. I'm a PhD student and I was conceptualizing my study, my professor was amazed about an original idea that I had in relation to a database, but when I tried to logically think about how it comes to me I simply couldn't. This idea just happened to me. Now I think that it can be Ni. This usually happens in random moments, usually surrounded by boredom. Sorry for my english mistakes If I did. Hugs from Brazil. An INFJ.
What's interesting is the difference in the judgers and the observers, as it seems (to me at least) easier to get to know Ti and Fi judging dominants than the Ni perceiving dominants, possibly even more so because these 2 judgers are introverted and Fi and Ti are functions so tied to the core of people. So you get lots of "opinions" from listening to them (whether you like it or not of course)
However, maybe perceiving dominants experience this differently as they might perceive that getting to know someone means you know their observations rather than their judgements? (perceiving doms, what do you think?)
To be clear: I mean Ti and FI as judgers and Ni as perceivers (so not the mbti judging vs perceiver names)
Yeah judgers are easier to pin down in general, judging fucntions are more a part of the individual while observers are just the lens wich you see the world. But judging influence observations and formulate decisions so calling them rationals make sense cause they are more « concrete » and coherent for the individual, observers being more straight up processes. We can say that Ji are also more honest in general so it’s easier to know the real them even tho it’s harder to know the nuances in an introvert.
@@savagestudio9666 What do you mean exactly with "even tho it’s harder to know the nuances in an introvert"
@@PowerRedBullTypology Just that it may be harder to have a great read on them because they have more internal processes or revolve around it more. But its just a general rule, Ne and Fe are good at tricking you too, even tho it is more obvisous that they are doing it over time. Less talk = less time knowing them, etc for introverts.
Holly is great at explaining how I experience things.
On the topic of Ni ideas vs. Ne ideas that begins at 48:50
I recall that Objective Personality made a video response to Joyce and touched on this during a discussion of Ti vs. Te in their video here: ruclips.net/video/K_ZOaWVG3O0/видео.html
(discussion starts at around 5:05 and ends around 6:54)
Sorry Joyce, for missing what you were getting at with the discussion about how your Fe/Ti affects your long-term thinking (and not being driven by your personal desires but rather the collective). I was really tired (and nervous) and was still stuck in that moment in my internal thoughts of how to describe Ni so I missed what you were saying until Cristian and Spacey started talking about the coldness of Ti. I wish I could go back and respond to that again because I DO get what you were saying. It made perfect sense to me. It's easy for me to understand what you meant because my Mom was like that as well so I grew up with that and she and I had those discussions many times over the years.
And, I contradicted myself saying that Te was how I related to people better but I also said that it caused conflicts. I should have clarified that I found that Te was my way of extroverting so that I could find a way to interact with people (otherwise I was far too introverted and quiet to interact much at all). Te gave me that ability to engage with people. But with that also came the problem of once I started having those interactions, it also came with the conflicts you normally see with Te. So I had to hone it.
“everyone is happy and I know best. “ great description!
I loved that part at 49:30 when Cristian said "This idea is my baaaby". That is so true!
25:10 ish. right on the money, Spacey! Introverts I know, particularly IxTx introverts, have a hard time knowing when the person they are talking to has lost interest or never had interest to begin with. Whereas as an Se user, I see this IMMEDIATELY and don’t really ever experience that. Kinda kills my passion, though, so I envy the IxTx tunnel obsession.
Joyce can you please do a function stack group with ENTP INTP ESFJ ISFJ?
Sure!! Working on it!
Im half on the video now and i just have to comment how IN types are scary intelligent, i feel like im not one of you. The ideas and understanding, the insights and how they put all the ideas in a concrete thought by NJs are so amazing
Thank you hanjesse31. As they say, it takes one to know one so you must be smart too! How old are you? If you're young, give yourself some time. A lot of that just comes with age. Experience is a great teacher.
@@hfortenberry Oh, thank you very much too. I don't really think i am that smart. I am 24 years old already but yes i think still lack lots of experience. Hearing all your insights and experiences in the interview is really engaging and i think lots of us will take something from it and use it to be a better communicator and understanding perspective from different angles by enhancing our natural talents and also learning that we all need each other to learn and grow.
I'm an INTP female. All of these types are *my people*--family members, friends, people toward whom I instinctively gravitate, etc. This conversation is my life.
Like this alot! and alle 4 of you great type casting, can truly see the types: and thinking: yes thats just how an Infp is and an Intj and an Intp, and feeling sorry Joyce since I am an Infj myself and rather be one of the 3 others. Especially want to be Intp. And so true the infj looks warm and all feeling but it is all Ni so they are alot colder insight, a cold and plannend -wanting the best for Fe- Also lot mistake infj for a traditional fi user, the feeling type, but it is much more ti we like to us. Cause for an infj fe is so exhausting thats why, Ni-Ti loop so great to be in. My Entp daugter just comes up with these ungoing idears love it I habe few Idears but I need them desparately yo use my Ni. So Ne is for me like a jar with lots of cookies and I can just find the nicest one and finding out what the ingredients are and make a organize the ingredients in a recipe, the whole proces is Yummy,!
great example: hand full screws....
Lovely roundtable discussion, please do more of these Joyce!
Thanks. :) Will do!
Predicting the future is not really an Ni thing but rather an Ne thing. Ni is so often associated with future predictions, while one could argue that it's not correct, as Ni more deals with their own future rather than 'the' future in the common sense of the word. Ni is more about ones own path and following that path or direction in order to realise a vision. However, if someone predicts their house wil have a violet color and then they themselves will color it violet, it's not really a "prediction" in the common sense of the word. This is of course because they have made it come true themselves.
Ne on the other hand does deal with predicting the future of the world around them (as far that is possible) by looking at all the patterns in the external world and predicting how they could play out. So when 3 patterns in the external world interact with eachother, Ne will "imagine" how they will collide with eachother and what the result of that collision is likely going to be be. However, since in the external world there are a lot of patterns interacting with eachother, Ne realistically knows it can never know for sure if what they predict will come true so it will not give 1 clear answer (since that would not be realistic).
Ne will always gravitate to that what is unknown in the external world and will loose it's interest when it becomes known (because then it stops being Ne territory and becomes Se territory). So Ne might predict based on some abstract patterns it observers in the external world that a certain thing will become a trend/hype the next year and feel excited by the idea of that prediction. However, if it actually becomes a trend next year, Ne will not feel attracted towards interacting with that trend (like exploiting a trend like making a business) since if it has become a fully realised reality, it becomes Se territory. So as soon as something becomes a trend in reality (like a certain hype) then Se doms will more likely jump on it to and might start a business doing that). Then the Ne dom will already be thinking about what's going to happen next year.
Basically Ni is about 'should' be and Ne is about what 'could' be
Ne = about what is the world around you going to do (objective)
Ni = about what am I going to do (subjective)
Ni = more personally invested in what they think should be (attached)
Ne = not personally invested in what they think could happen (detached)
Ni= ignores what the external world will likely do, but know their role in their ideas (attender)
Ne = unaware of what their personal role should be, but aware of what is more or less likely going to happen (observer)
@Mohamad Hamzah Yeah, I agree Mohamad. As an INTJ, I can easily predict things that are unrelated to my own goals or life. I see massive networks of patterns in the world related to anything I study at depth and many things that also just get absorbed constantly via my Se. The predictions are not limited to my own patterns constructed to fulfill my Fi/Te goals. Power Red Bull, you may be describing more lower-stack Ni. Perhaps it works that way for ISFPs for example. But Ni doms absolutely predict things outside of their subjective/attached framework.
Higher stack Ni sees the underlying interaction patterns just like Ne. The difference for me as an INFJ Ni user is it leads me to see the 'intuitively probable' result from a particular interaction. Like the expression "The House always wins" does not mean that every casino patron will lose money (some might win $1Million dollars). It just means that over time the odds are in favor of the house.
Ne knows correctly that nothing is guaranteed. In fact I've suffered because I did not have the Ne to protect myself from bad possibilities because I blindly followed the 'odds' and assumed it was a guarantee. Ne also seems better able to handle changes when things don't go as expected. Takes longer to regroup as an Ni user.
Because Se is inherently tied to Ni I can see the likelihood of certain patterns, think when they are set up in a particular order they lead to a disaster, and work to change it. Because I consider physics and the emotional patterns of humans as mostly frozen to change I must creatively think of how I can reliably increase the odds of a positive outcome over time. Where 'how humans work' and physics are in harmony with humanity's goal of a positive outcome.
Ni sees the world like a combination Lego/plumbing project. Design whatever you like as long as it naturally flows and doesn't burst the pipes. The world seems full of people who ignore gravity flow, try to put firehose pressure into a garden hose, and other things. And if you can design whatever you like, why not make something that lasts and matters to others. I think INTJ's might be more practical and less focused on the people part compared to INFJ's.
In short, we need each other's perspective. I know I need Ne and Fi perspective in particular. Otherwise we miss a part of the puzzle. As complex as everything in the world is, we can only understand a portion of how this universe works (and could work).
* Ni has a Newtonian Physics-like view of the world, Ne is like quantum physics!
@@EDventureous All in all, I think iNtuition IN GENERAL makes it easier to make predictions. I think Redbull importantly brings attention to the often over-exaggerated association between Ni and the future/future predictions. However he did perhaps fail to note the potential breadth of Ni's focus. I think EDventureous actually wrote a rather good explanation of the differences between them, and comparing them to Newtonian vs Quantum physics was pretty clever.
The energy conversion or divergence between Ne and Ni is mirrored in Se and Si, for comparison.
Holly reminds me of the Devil Wears Prada. Amazing movie if anyone hasn’t seen it
Funny you mention that. While I don't really see much resemblance, I've been told a few times over the decades that I resemble Meryl Streep. We both talk sort of slowly, so maybe it's that.
as an Ne/Se dom I feel like its in my DNA to ignore the risks of doing things. It's important for me to experiencing life in my own multiple subjective lenses.
1:19:52 Personally, I also need to attach ideas to a overall structure when discussing things, otherwise i can pretty easily get disoriented. So, for me, It's a way of keeping the control and not loose the "abstract" orientation and get dizzy.
I love Spacey’s shirt! Where did you get it?
Got it on Etsy. Unfortunately it got ruined in the dryer. Be careful!
INxx's compare and contrast their types.
I wouldn't watch any of these without Joyce in them
Such a good conversation
Great panel!!
Thanks, Wendi!!
I don't know if it would be too big of a group or if you've already done it, but how about having all ENXX and INXX? (A meeting of intuitive minds)
I will tackle this topic one day for sure!! :)
cool! you found a 5 with 6 wing INTJ
I would love to see a future comparison of different enneagram combinations, especially for INTJ, if there's much stock in that. e.g. I'm an INTJ 1w2
I noticed her twitter says she is a 5w4 though.
@@sephirothsoul999 that would be great idea and include the subtype labels as well.
@@s.u.5285 Definitely! Like for INTJ, types 5 and 1 are most common, but if the less common types were in the mix as well, that could be illuminating. There's for sure some fun discussion to be had in comparing those with a greater focus on seeking perfectionism (1) vs idea-generating (5).
I mean, an INTJ already comes across as 'intense' stereotypically (and I would bet we type 1s are probably the worse of that lol) but yeah, would love to see how different people who operate similarly target what they innately consider a higher priority. Good stuff!
@S. U. Yeah, I have tested both ways, 5w4 and 5w6. Recently I tested as 5w4 and yes I do ignore social norms when possible. I could not care less about them much to the chagrin of my ENTJ Dad and ESFJ stepmom, LOL. And artistic pursuits hold special meaning in my heart if not my actions but I'm more concerned with security than exerting my individuality. I'm already very confident in my uniqueness given that I'm a lesbian and have always felt totally weird and out of touch with everyone so I don't feel any need to assert that further. I'm already being myself. I've had pet rats and eschewed makeup when it was not the norm in my group and started using my own shopping bags in 2005 when nobody thought it was cool. Back then I was just this weird lady that people stared at in the grocery line for using reusable bags. LOL But none of that is of concern to me. In my heart, I just don't care much about fitting in.
But, "The Troubleshooter" description and other readings of 5w6 feel like a better fit for me. I'm all about proven established systems that make me more efficient or effective such as the Scientific Method for example and my creativity is toward creating optimal systems. For example I once created a new web design markup framework back in 2006. Given the quick pace of web des/dev, it was quickly over-taken by newer systems but it was a fun creative pursuit. When I was younger, I was much more creative with arts and crafts (drawing mainly) and focused on "finding myself" but I've never been "freewheeling" or prone to playing devil's advocate as you see with the 5w4s/INTPs. I just bought The Wisdom of the Enneagram by Don Riso and Russ Hudson so perhaps that will help me narrow it down once and for all.
I relate so heavily to Holly in trickster Fe, being almost naive and ignorant of other people's feelings and social expectations, and needing to study MBTI, Enneagram, and general psychology just to get some kind of foothold not to fall off the cliff of social interaction, as some kind of scaffolding. "Wasn't what people want to talk about". It hurt me a lot growing up, but now it's almost acceptable as an adult. Thank you for all the talks Joyce, I love all of these, they are so effective and helpful 💛 We appreciate you! - Official MBTI, INTJ 5w4 SP/SX 548/541 ✌🏼 💕
💕💕 Thanks @SU KI! It brings me joy to know that this was relatable for you!! :)
As an INTP I instictinvely want to experience the pleasure of variation (Ne) of understanding and ideas (Ti) so it's not the last domino.
I want to know that there will be a lot of pleasing variation of the entire row of dominos or I'll want to pick another row of dominos.
And if I feel like I can extrapolate more or less how that variation will play out its no longer interesting so I'll look for another row.
Good comment. "Will this continue to keep my interest in the future, or am I going to waste my time and energy on a displeasing row of dominos?"
@@Slippernips It's how I play computer games :-) If i can "See through the game" i lose interest. If i can still find variation and suprises in how it will work out I will play again. For instance playing Civilization 5 again and again trying to find new developments and variations in strategy.
Yeah this is why i play roguelike style games. Die if you mess up. Start over again with a new build or strategy. Repeat.
Nice video.
I would add a bit of a caution. It was mentioned that every INTJ encountered talks about how important Fi is to them. The caution is that probably the INTJs one encounters in talking about types are those who emphasize their Fi; it may or may not apply to all INTJs (and probably doesn't). INTJs who like to talk about types are a self-selected group.
This group and conversation feels at home for me. It energized me and comforts me. My INTP partner tries to convince me I’m an INFJ but I doubt it but being here among the IxxJs and IxxPs talking really does confirm where I belong. It’s so relieving to know where like minded individuals exist.
I feel IxxPs use that word “nagging” a lot. 😆 As an INFJ, I go through an existential crisis when things don’t pan out... like when my marriage ended or my job that I loved closed but Ni locks into our goals and Joyce is right about us not appreciating distractions. We can focus our ENERGY on one thing and we are always paying more attention on the destination rather than the journey. Ni can have 50 tabs open but we are only using 1 or 2... that’s where my focus goes in research. My IxxP partner can hone in on information and apply what is useful and dismiss what is not but IxxJs use a wide breadth of information and funnels it which means a research paper for an IxxP can take way less time to do than for an IxxJ.
Ni is very detached and it’s funny because people will ascribe those birds’ eye views to our identity personally and we have to defend that our socio-cultural view is objective and we could care less.
I loved that you guys talked about IxxJs have the empirical data and using the scientific method to “test” as we go. Working with an IxxP he can do things a bit wonky where I’m like, “But you have to define your variables before you can create the measurement!!! That’s just how you accurately and reliably test things!!!” And he’ll be like, “ yeah whatever...”
So the question would be: WHY is Ni future focussed?
I love this! It's like everyone is in the same Alien-ish wavelength lol I've always thought that INs are my tribe/people and it shows here. - infp
I like everyone here so much !
Ti hero almost feel like using the force. It can be used in a few different ways.
Fascinating. It almost sounds like Ni is more parable based, while Ne is more metaphor based. Ne relates an idea or a feeling to other ideas/feelings using imagery instead of relying on specific anecdotes (as opposed to Se), meanwhile Ni relates an idea or feeling within a story using imagery instead of relying on specific anecdotes.
Thank you for the heart 💖💖💖💖💖 😍😍😍😍😍😍😍
🤗 You are so welcome!!! Thank you for watching. :)
@@JoyceMeng22 You're welcome 💕 I enjoyed it. I am new to mbti and very curious. Still trying to figure out cognitive functions. My MBTI type in 16 personalities is INFP. I like the structures like this, i get a view of the different kinds intuitive introverts and where they differ exactly. If there is one thing in common, i would say you are all highly intelligent. I am still not sure where i relate more because there are bits a pieces in the discussion that i relate to inxp specially the scattered ideas and to inxj that that is seeing the whole picture even with small details. Or I might be an ISFP or other introverted type.
I'm a male INFJ. Is there a way to get in on these? Sounds fun, MBTI is a complete autistic obsession of mine.
Right on
53:20 as someone with an ENFP wife and ENTP daughter… yes, 😂
Spacey is so cool. I like him.😆
Joyce 😍
:) 💕
I love how you can see parts of their personality in their environment and clothes. Are the books Te? Is that shirt Ti? Is that thoughtful outfit and appearance Fe? Is the lack of focus on hair INXP :P
Ti Ne Si is the most iterative thing ever.
An INFJ taking notes, don't mind me -
17:35 Joyce's crying laugh! Oh I feel that. Following by what's best for me personally & not conforming to society's standards/ my monetary needs / what other people think I ought to do. 47:25: Itch to know what the point is of an Ne conversation. Yes. 49:35: NI: Ideas are my babies. Ne: jar of screws, I reach in and grab a handful and scatter a few all over the place. Yes. 57:20 Ne = momentum. Yes!! Then, Ni settling down into a tranquility with an idea "A pond is settling within me" vs Ne = increasing energy w/ idea, grows frantic as it develops. 1:01:30 INFP feels centered in values, not ideas. Specifically values reaching a concrete affirmation/inclusion/security in the real world = centered. 1:20:20: Ni = meta structure to encompass all structures. Ne = all structures on same plane. 1:34:45: INFJs like a cool mist.
1:07:21
Ni vs Ne!
Me, an INTJ female afraid of pushing my te on my future children and appear controlling 💀💀💀 i also have high te mother so i know what it’s like 💀💀💀
Cristian looks more like an isfj tho tbh... Just compare him with spacey... There is no se polr frail look/uncertainty about self in Cristian
I'm an INFJ. I've always had an idea of who I want to be when "I grow up" but struggled with the "how" to get there because it doesn't work with convention (or capitalism for that matter). When I look in the future, I imagine myself as someone like Maya Angelou and creating a collective/collaborative community of misfits (but not a cult lol). There's not really a degree/career path for that. It's like I'm looking at a map, can identify where I am and the destination, maybe narrowed down to taking a train or plane but I don't know where the airport is or how to get a ticket...
Lol, "N_Js talk in parables (metaphor)"
Yeah Teal and Hussey are INFJ! :)
Spacey always looks bored
That's my secret. I'm always bored.
@@DiscoveryWonders :)
Finally a different INTJ! Not knocking the other dude...whatever his name is...but...nvm I won’t go there.
what's with the hate?
@@Magani79 where’s the hate? I’m allowed to not be a fan of his. All I said is it’s refreshing to have a different INTJ on the show. Since you really want to know, Every other type has an array of people except the INTJ. He’s got the same stories and perspectives. I can sum up his life story in 8 words damn near. Holly is much more mature and relatable as an INTJ. She’s grown through the challenges. She has/is experienced life. Personally, I’d like to see more of Holly or even Holly and that guy together because there’s a difference between how they’ve managed to navigate the world. The guy doesn’t seem like he’s had an easy time managing. Holly learned very early that she has to adapt and that’s what makes her the INTJ for me.