To be honest, the point you are making for Earthstrike (that on less than 20 second fights you net more AP from it than from Jom) can easily be bypassed by just popping Jom 2-3-4 seconds before the pull.
Yea I was just about to type that too. That is what will separate you from the rest. Same as we pre pop cd on vael to get more gcd. Just pop it when the pull timer is at 5 sec if u have a 15 sec fight. Or pre pop on twins when u run over there to time it
Yes, but that's what the spreadsheet says. If the fight only lasts 2 seconds, then the extra 65 (130) would not count, because the fight is over, and total AP at 2 seconds, would be 2 seconds of 65, so that's 130, and then you get the extra 65, so 130x2 for the next 2 seconds (260 + the original 130 = 390)
The extra added AP you had at the end of the 20 second duration of Jom would not exist. You get your last AP improvement at the 18 second mark, and it fades at 20 seconds.
Sure it's been commented by now, but just in case. In Dune, the Bene Gesserit and the Houses use the Gom Jabbar, a poisoned needle, for coercion and assassination. Hence, the poison symbol
To many influences are overseen. When using Jom Gabbar: - Energy Pooling is not allowed to outperform Earthstrike - GCD Skipping is not allowed to outperform Earthstrike - making sure you have 5cps and a free GCD between Second 18 to 20 without hurting rule 1 and 2. - the final attack has to actually hit otherwise you are loosing the AP bonus of 650 completely. - Does not synergize very well with AR since you can only place a single powerful eviscerate during the uptime. You only have a 6 second window (3 GCDs) at which the average AP is higher than Earthstrike. When using Earthstrike: - just dumb as much energy as possible / spam your buttons. - no GCD skipping required - no matter when you have 5 cps, just use them asap. - with this in mind you just can eviscerate again after a dodge. Just loosing a GCD of 280 AP Bonus. - Earthstrike works much better in combination with AR, because you can place two enhanced 5cp evis during Earthstrike window. Since Earthstrike is much easier to use and way less rng dependend than Jom Gabbar, it should be first choice.
your math is wrong you get 65 ap off the start with jom so 2s in youll be at 130 ap, 4s 195ap, 260ap 6s, 8s in you overtake earthstrike with 325 ap. 15s in you actually have acumulated more ap than earthstrike
This still adds more overall raid damage by giving it to a hunter. This is because hunters scale better with AP than warriors and rogues, whereas rogues and warriors scale better with hit % and crit %. It adds 19 dps to a hunter, 14 dps to a rogue, and only 5 dps to a warrior.
funny to see this video and 'next up' is a video by you about how jom gabbar is a trap :D on a more serious note, love your vids man, keep em coming! :)
Well, I don't have Jom Gabbar, but I do have Earthstrike :P. Then again I'm a tank, so to me having a big threat up front is what I like more than backloaded. Simply because the longer I have a mob on me more treat my revenge will do and I value this more than the backloaded treat from Jom. My thinking is that I want to initially stick that enemy on me. Does this make sense to anyone besides myself, just wondering? Or am I straight up going wrong about this?
You dont need ap during execute phase really, execute converts just rage. It's best to use during the other parts if the fight when you are blood thirsting on CD. You want pop Jom gabbar, then immediately use bloodfury, and hope for some crusader procs, tou will have over 3k ap buffed.
What i have learnt is that they are both good items and ill get the earth strike soon when I have 10k more rep... Jom gabber might take a while but when I get it ill use it sounds more fun
@@TheZackzable someone said and i have to verify if thats true, but execute doesn't scale with AP, if thats true then that scenario is useless, again warriors want kiss of the spider is way better overall dps, and rogues dont want Jom because like sarthe explained where jom really shines is its last 4 seconds and rogues want to pop everything for slice and dice which is only 15 seconds long.
@@ryanvance1767 no range attacks are different than melee, hunters are either you hit or you miss, and if you get 9% hit (which is cap) you legitimately do not miss ever, there is no dodges or parries and no glancing blows.
@@bavarianwolf3806 because you want to use Renataki's when you have the Most AP from Jom. Then you have the AP from Earthstrike while 2% crit from breadth
@@bavarianwolf3806 Swarmguard is basically useless because bosses can't go negative armor. after sunder and FF the boss has about 250 armor left. Hunter t2 proc or annihilator does the same thing
I think Earthstrike is better for warriors. Execute doesn't scale with weapon damage or AP. It's static damage (600+15*#ofragepoints). The amount of rage you generate does scale with the amount of damage you do to a target (AP increases this), but 1.5s GCDs mean you can only get a finite number of executes off during this short window where Jom Gabbar gives more AP. If you're outside of execute window it's even worse as you'll get only one Bloodthirst off (6s CD (dmg scaled w/ AP)). If RNG is on your side, Jom Gabbar wins in a perfect world. But I think having a higher uptime on rage for the first 10 seconds is overall better... I hate on use trinkets anyways so I just want DFT and Blackhand's Breadth. I can totally see how Jom Gabbar would be reallllly nice on trash if you use BF 5 seconds after Jom.
@@ryanvance1767 Nope! The full ability reads: (Rank 1 Execute) "Attempt to finish off a wounded foe, causing 125 damage and converting each extra point of rage into 3 additional damage. Only usable on enemies that have 20% or less health." It's completely static damage, doesn't matter if you're 0AP or over 9,000 attack power! That's why warriors are so damn good during execute phase. I will do the same execute crit naked as I will in P6 BiS. Here is Heroic Strike (Rank 1): "A strong attack that increases melee damage by 11 and causes a high amount of threat." This, unlike execute, scales with weapon damage (as it's "melee damage"). And here is Bloodthirst (Rank 1): "Instantly attack the target causing damage equal to 45% of your attack power. In addition, the next 5 successful melee attacks will restore 10 health. This effect lasts 8 sec." Bloodthirst scales off raw attack power. It's why warriors scale so perfectly with gear and world buffs. More AP = stronger Bloodthirst.
@@ryanvance1767 Anytime(: I should mention that Bloodthirst functions similarly to Execute. My Bloodthirst hits for the same damage with a level 1 sword as it does with Vis'kag (it's scaled off attack power only). Gearing a warrior is honestly half the fun of the class in my opinion. So many bizarre combinations that actually happen to work.
@@ryanvance1767 Anytime(: I should mention that Bloodthirst functions similarly to Execute. My Bloodthirst hits for the same damage with a level 1 sword as it does with Vis'kag (it's scaled off attack power only). Gearing a warrior is honestly half the fun of the class in my opinion. So many bizarre combinations that actually happen to work.
Parses are a team effort more so then an individual. I could be getting 99 parses with my Vis'kag and Maladath and mix of BF and nightslayer if everyone showed up fully world buffed like I do
Christopher Lancaster He wouldn’t have to worry about WB if his raid went into the instance without them and parse in the new feature on the Logs. 😊 perhaps his raid is not able to complete the raid with the cheat code known as WB.
For those of you who want to min-max the Logistics quests for Earthstrike, I made this sheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jorl0-qFkZX8zExricBG8TBK8RcOSylz4E4KXS78hTU/ It allows you to select your server and faction and will pull the most recent prices for all materials for the quest items from Nexushub and show you which quests are the cheapest options. Feedback welcome!
actually Jom is not good for a warrior, especially if you have a DFT, you are going to replace it with Kiss of the spider, had this conversation with my guild and had to make a very compelling argument that it should actually be Hunter prio first before going to melee dps, because Kiss of the spider is going to be your melee bis trinket.
There is no planet on which you would optimize hunter dps in classic wow at the cost of meele dps in a guild that is pushing for good time. Not only would you be throwing for AQ speedruns but you would also bank on all meele getting access to a naxx trinket once released. Not happening.
@@onyidavid4417 bruh, with worldbuffs i can either stay on par with our rogues or i beat them in dps. if you haven't seen a hunter do more than 450 dps then you have shit hunters in your guild. Hunters are absolutely amazing stustainable damage, we dont have to worry about dodge or parries or glancing blows, sure were not going to out dps fury warrior, but Jom is not good for warriors as i said before you are going to replace it with kiss of the spider in naxx, not only that but it shares the same CD of diamond flask which is too god teir for warriors. its not a good choice or at least for prio.
also my raid is only me and another hunter for hunter count, so if more than 2 jom's drop before phase 6 then sure let the melee fight over it, but it should by all means go to a hunter first, its their best trinket in the game, maybe besides slayers crest but that i would even say is prob warrior=rogue>hunter prio.
I wouldn't be using my prio on Jom Gabbar this tier. Not with trinkets like Slayer's Crest and Kiss of the Spider coming in Naxx, both of which are better than Jom. Not to mention earthstrike being available. There's a reason a lot of guilds are giving them to hunters. It's good for them, and melee has a ton of other loot to obtain in AQ40 plus we got our trinket prio last tier on DFT which was more important, at least if you were in a guild that knew what it was doing with loot at least. Snomie is pretty much right where he calls Jom a trap for rogues. You're blowing your trinket prio on a trinket that has a non raid alternative, and it gets replaced early in naxx most likely for a lot of rogues. If that's what you wanna do then great, but I don't think it's the right play. Obviously don't let Jom rot(chances of that happening are slim) but it wouldn't be anywhere near my primary focus in AQ40 whether I'm using a DKP system or a LC system.
@@MrPeaceFroggy To me i just prefer to have 20 dps for 20sec over try to hit the lottery on last 6-5sec of jom gabbar you get 4Global god forbid your RNG come in to play just like Darkmantle good on some boss bad on other.
To be honest, the point you are making for Earthstrike (that on less than 20 second fights you net more AP from it than from Jom) can easily be bypassed by just popping Jom 2-3-4 seconds before the pull.
Yeah. This is a great point.
Yea I was just about to type that too. That is what will separate you from the rest. Same as we pre pop cd on vael to get more gcd. Just pop it when the pull timer is at 5 sec if u have a 15 sec fight. Or pre pop on twins when u run over there to time it
I got Jom week 1 and didn't start using it efficiently till recently, and this is 100% true. Pre pop, get SnD up and pool energy for the final stacks.
except then you're not using it in conjunction with all your cd's and it takes 8 seconds for Jom to be on par with Earthstrike
can you wear both trinkets and use gabbar first then earthstrike or is bad?
pretty sure you get 65 AP instantly, than 65 more (130) at the 2 second mark
Yes, but that's what the spreadsheet says. If the fight only lasts 2 seconds, then the extra 65 (130) would not count, because the fight is over, and total AP at 2 seconds, would be 2 seconds of 65, so that's 130, and then you get the extra 65, so 130x2 for the next 2 seconds (260 + the original 130 = 390)
9:30 thank me later
The extra added AP you had at the end of the 20 second duration of Jom would not exist. You get your last AP improvement at the 18 second mark, and it fades at 20 seconds.
Yeah the 65 starts at second0 and 130 at second 2. so the whole when is jom better is off.
10:07 you say Deathwish is 20 seconds, but it's 30 seconds.
Sure it's been commented by now, but just in case. In Dune, the Bene Gesserit and the Houses use the Gom Jabbar, a poisoned needle, for coercion and assassination. Hence, the poison symbol
and the ramping AP is representative of the rapidly increasing pain felt during the humanity test :)
To many influences are overseen.
When using Jom Gabbar:
- Energy Pooling is not allowed to outperform Earthstrike
- GCD Skipping is not allowed to outperform Earthstrike
- making sure you have 5cps and a free GCD between Second 18 to 20 without hurting rule 1 and 2.
- the final attack has to actually hit otherwise you are loosing the AP bonus of 650 completely.
- Does not synergize very well with AR since you can only place a single powerful eviscerate during the uptime. You only have a 6 second window (3 GCDs) at which the average AP is higher than Earthstrike.
When using Earthstrike:
- just dumb as much energy as possible / spam your buttons.
- no GCD skipping required
- no matter when you have 5 cps, just use them asap.
- with this in mind you just can eviscerate again after a dodge. Just loosing a GCD of 280 AP Bonus.
- Earthstrike works much better in combination with AR, because you can place two enhanced 5cp evis during Earthstrike window.
Since Earthstrike is much easier to use and way less rng dependend than Jom Gabbar, it should be first choice.
your math is wrong you get 65 ap off the start with jom so 2s in youll be at 130 ap, 4s 195ap, 260ap 6s, 8s in you overtake earthstrike with 325 ap. 15s in you actually have acumulated more ap than earthstrike
This still adds more overall raid damage by giving it to a hunter. This is because hunters scale better with AP than warriors and rogues, whereas rogues and warriors scale better with hit % and crit %. It adds 19 dps to a hunter, 14 dps to a rogue, and only 5 dps to a warrior.
Wait warriors scale better with % ? :O
AQ isnt even open on my server kekw
Change realm to a more active server, with more players. You will not regret it.
@@larsschmidt7972 nah im fine on gandling, the gates will open in 3 days and i wouldnt wanna leave my guild anyways
What server? Gates opening Wednesday for us gonna have like 50 scarab lords lmao
@@chrisgreenwood8188 Gandling EU
What's the addon called at 10:30 that shows people's consumables and buffs?
Exorsus raid tools classic
funny to see this video and 'next up' is a video by you about how jom gabbar is a trap :D
on a more serious note, love your vids man, keep em coming! :)
Are the 2 trinkets on the same CD?
Well, I don't have Jom Gabbar, but I do have Earthstrike :P. Then again I'm a tank, so to me having a big threat up front is what I like more than backloaded. Simply because the longer I have a mob on me more treat my revenge will do and I value this more than the backloaded treat from Jom. My thinking is that I want to initially stick that enemy on me. Does this make sense to anyone besides myself, just wondering? Or am I straight up going wrong about this?
I frickin love playing wow but can barely keep up with all of the content available now. Wish I had more time.
Surprised you didn’t mention tanking. I will prefer earth strike for the early AP on pull for snap aggro lead
This should go to the up!
where is this weakaura that he mentioned? he said it was in the description but i dont see it.
Thoughts on weaving hunters wanting JG?
Execute does not scale with attackpower bro
better to open with it, especially if your doing reck on cleave like on sartura
what about in regards to hunters?
you talked about 12 second razorgore fight, you could pre pop jom 8 seconds early. it would beat earthstrike!
You dont need ap during execute phase really, execute converts just rage. It's best to use during the other parts if the fight when you are blood thirsting on CD. You want pop Jom gabbar, then immediately use bloodfury, and hope for some crusader procs, tou will have over 3k ap buffed.
Execute doesn't scale with attack power tho
If youre above 2k attack power its a good idea to bloodthirst when execute is available
Yes ik
What i have learnt is that they are both good items and ill get the earth strike soon when I have 10k more rep... Jom gabber might take a while but when I get it ill use it sounds more fun
seal of the dawm give 150 ap not 81?
possible to use both?
ok so basically kill boss in 10 seconds kk got it.
Jom Gabbar is a Dune reference
Not sure the math here is right. Its 65 ap per 2 second tick. Max of 10 ticks, thats a max of 650 ap how is he getting 1500 more ap on the last tick?
What is that fire buff
ES>JG coz no drama loot.
sooo, If u get 2 dodges in the last 4 sec with jom gabbar you are basically fu****.
exactly why it should go to hunters over melee dps, if your hit cap as a hunter you do not miss ever.
@@TheCrypticmeta4 well or u can argue it should go to warrior bc they can time it with execute for the most benefit of the last seconds...
@@TheZackzable someone said and i have to verify if thats true, but execute doesn't scale with AP, if thats true then that scenario is useless, again warriors want kiss of the spider is way better overall dps, and rogues dont want Jom because like sarthe explained where jom really shines is its last 4 seconds and rogues want to pop everything for slice and dice which is only 15 seconds long.
TheCrypticmeta4 Do hunters not have to deal with 15% dodge?
@@ryanvance1767 no range attacks are different than melee, hunters are either you hit or you miss, and if you get 9% hit (which is cap) you legitimately do not miss ever, there is no dodges or parries and no glancing blows.
I geuss earthstriker is better for furyprot atleast for getting good threat to start with
As a rogue you would probably want to pop Jom Gabar 2-4 sec before you pop all your CDs like AR and BF
and what is for hunter better?
You have both for Hunters. On long fights you start with Renataki and Jom Gabbar then FD trinket swap to earthstrike and Blackhands Breadth
@@ambrose666 but earthstrike has 30 sec cooldown before use why not start with earth and jom
@@bavarianwolf3806 because you want to use Renataki's when you have the Most AP from Jom. Then you have the AP from Earthstrike while 2% crit from breadth
@@ambrose666 and what about swarmguard trinket when you dont have improved expose armor rogue?
@@bavarianwolf3806 Swarmguard is basically useless because bosses can't go negative armor. after sunder and FF the boss has about 250 armor left. Hunter t2 proc or annihilator does the same thing
Gratz on Jom!
I think Earthstrike is better for warriors. Execute doesn't scale with weapon damage or AP. It's static damage (600+15*#ofragepoints). The amount of rage you generate does scale with the amount of damage you do to a target (AP increases this), but 1.5s GCDs mean you can only get a finite number of executes off during this short window where Jom Gabbar gives more AP. If you're outside of execute window it's even worse as you'll get only one Bloodthirst off (6s CD (dmg scaled w/ AP)). If RNG is on your side, Jom Gabbar wins in a perfect world. But I think having a higher uptime on rage for the first 10 seconds is overall better... I hate on use trinkets anyways so I just want DFT and Blackhand's Breadth. I can totally see how Jom Gabbar would be reallllly nice on trash if you use BF 5 seconds after Jom.
John Cummings is Execute not base of your melee damage?
@@ryanvance1767 Nope!
The full ability reads: (Rank 1 Execute) "Attempt to finish off a wounded foe, causing 125 damage and converting each extra point of rage into 3 additional damage. Only usable on enemies that have 20% or less health." It's completely static damage, doesn't matter if you're 0AP or over 9,000 attack power! That's why warriors are so damn good during execute phase. I will do the same execute crit naked as I will in P6 BiS.
Here is Heroic Strike (Rank 1): "A strong attack that increases melee damage by 11 and causes a high amount of threat." This, unlike execute, scales with weapon damage (as it's "melee damage"). And here is Bloodthirst (Rank 1): "Instantly attack the target causing damage equal to 45% of your attack power. In addition, the next 5 successful melee attacks will restore 10 health. This effect lasts 8 sec." Bloodthirst scales off raw attack power. It's why warriors scale so perfectly with gear and world buffs. More AP = stronger Bloodthirst.
@@Original1Thor Thank you for clearing that up ^_^
@@ryanvance1767 Anytime(: I should mention that Bloodthirst functions similarly to Execute. My Bloodthirst hits for the same damage with a level 1 sword as it does with Vis'kag (it's scaled off attack power only). Gearing a warrior is honestly half the fun of the class in my opinion. So many bizarre combinations that actually happen to work.
@@ryanvance1767 Anytime(: I should mention that Bloodthirst functions similarly to Execute. My Bloodthirst hits for the same damage with a level 1 sword as it does with Vis'kag (it's scaled off attack power only). Gearing a warrior is honestly half the fun of the class in my opinion. So many bizarre combinations that actually happen to work.
The only guy to pronounce jom gabbar right
You have TF and JG but still a purple parse in AQ40...
you also need to take into account boss kill time and wbuffs.
Parses are a team effort more so then an individual. I could be getting 99 parses with my Vis'kag and Maladath and mix of BF and nightslayer if everyone showed up fully world buffed like I do
Christopher Lancaster He wouldn’t have to worry about WB if his raid went into the instance without them and parse in the new feature on the Logs. 😊 perhaps his raid is not able to complete the raid with the cheat code known as WB.
For those of you who want to min-max the Logistics quests for Earthstrike, I made this sheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jorl0-qFkZX8zExricBG8TBK8RcOSylz4E4KXS78hTU/
It allows you to select your server and faction and will pull the most recent prices for all materials for the quest items from Nexushub and show you which quests are the cheapest options. Feedback welcome!
i dont even play a rogue but i like ur vids man gj
whats up with the L t R audio balance :S
Thanks! Now i can't ignore it
what about hunters..
if jg only has more net ap at 16/20 seconds isnt earthstrike just better lol? warrior btw
bro why u gotta flex on us like that in the intro :( feelsbadman
AP doesn’t affect execute damage, unless you are saying use jom gabbar in execute so your white hits generate more rage
You still wanna stack it with your other CDs and if you reach 2k+ AP which you probably would you still use BT in exe phase.
Death wish is 30sec
actually Jom is not good for a warrior, especially if you have a DFT, you are going to replace it with Kiss of the spider, had this conversation with my guild and had to make a very compelling argument
that it should actually be Hunter prio first before going to melee dps, because Kiss of the spider is going to be your melee bis trinket.
There is no planet on which you would optimize hunter dps in classic wow at the cost of meele dps in a guild that is pushing for good time. Not only would you be throwing for AQ speedruns but you would also bank on all meele getting access to a naxx trinket once released. Not happening.
@@onyidavid4417 bruh, with worldbuffs i can either stay on par with our rogues or i beat them in dps. if you haven't seen a hunter do more than 450 dps then you have shit hunters in your guild. Hunters are absolutely amazing stustainable damage, we dont have to worry about dodge or parries or glancing blows, sure were not going to out dps fury warrior, but Jom is not good for warriors as i said before you are going to replace it with kiss of the spider in naxx, not only that but it shares the same CD of diamond flask which is too god teir for warriors. its not a good choice or at least for prio.
@@TheCrypticmeta4 your rogues suck ass then
also my raid is only me and another hunter for hunter count, so if more than 2 jom's drop before phase 6 then sure let the melee fight over it, but it should by all means go to a hunter first, its their best trinket in the game, maybe besides slayers crest but that i would even say is prob warrior=rogue>hunter prio.
@@o77o that maybe true, either way its a trap of a trinket for melee, they would get alot more out of earthstrike then jom
Too bad execute doesn’t scale with ap :(
by this point you should be spamming bloodthirst in execute phase
True, but you need rage to execute and more AP helps with that
Death wish is 30 seconds tho hehe
I wouldn't be using my prio on Jom Gabbar this tier. Not with trinkets like Slayer's Crest and Kiss of the Spider coming in Naxx, both of which are better than Jom. Not to mention earthstrike being available. There's a reason a lot of guilds are giving them to hunters. It's good for them, and melee has a ton of other loot to obtain in AQ40 plus we got our trinket prio last tier on DFT which was more important, at least if you were in a guild that knew what it was doing with loot at least. Snomie is pretty much right where he calls Jom a trap for rogues. You're blowing your trinket prio on a trinket that has a non raid alternative, and it gets replaced early in naxx most likely for a lot of rogues. If that's what you wanna do then great, but I don't think it's the right play. Obviously don't let Jom rot(chances of that happening are slim) but it wouldn't be anywhere near my primary focus in AQ40 whether I'm using a DKP system or a LC system.
Earthshaker is better unless you want RNG in your DPS
What do u mean rng? There isnt any rng in any of these 2 trinkets.
@@MrPeaceFroggy To me i just prefer to have 20 dps for 20sec over try to hit the lottery on last 6-5sec of jom gabbar you get 4Global god forbid your RNG come in to play just like Darkmantle good on some boss bad on other.
@@Pindragon If you actually used the sheet you would see that earthstrike only gives 280 ap over 20 seconds - where as jom gabbar gives 358 ;)
Go Earthstrike
Hunters get jom
Deal with it
People have warthstrike already? Lol
Already? People have had it for a week + :D
Hunters utilize both trinkets via feign cycling. It's obviously best for hunters.
lookin cute Sarthe
Stealing from other content creater! Check out DamnBoi video on it. Nice dude
first
Imagine still playing this game KEKW
How do you actually make money? Can't be from your youtube account atleast, I hope you have a real job
How do you make money?
Why would u ask that here, cringo