Episode 41: Anti Roll Bars and ARB adjusters on a V8Supercar
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- Опубликовано: 2 май 2023
- Perkins Engineering RUclips Channel.
Apologies, the microphone is rubbing on my neck and causes audio issues for those wearing headphones.
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I love that blade system. It's so simple, yet so genius.
Works well, theres another style, telescopic its know as, less displacement than blades
@@perkinsengineering that would be interesting to see. Will there be a video of that type?
@@patrolmaverick unlikely as we never ran it. Stone Brothers did, and those units ended up in the Erebus cars !
Good one Jack, how about a tour of the workshop in an episode? Looks like the ultimate man cave.
Maybe at a later date, we are still getting properly set-up whilst keeping on top of projects and jobs!
I think a lot of people will think adjusting one blade will only adjust one side, but the stiffness of the whole bar assembly is what is being adjusted. Better to describe the bolted blade as the primary adjustment, while the adjustable blade is the fine tuning adjustment. Also I don't think strut tower braces are really the same, and most road cars have a steel anti-rollbar with no adjustment at all. The early car looks absolutely mint, keep up the good work.
Yep you’re right!
Excellent, more please
On it!
Thanks for not calling it a 'sway' bar - from England.
Haha no worries!
cool use of aviation parts for the in cabin ARB adjuster in the old school car! effective way to get relatively cheap, light weight, off the shelf parts.
Exactly right!!!
Finally, an explanation (and demonstration) of how modern torsion bars work. ❤
You're welcome!
Great channel Jack , be good to have your dad on again. Loved the Volkswagen episodes. He looked like a kid in a candy shop.
Yeah he's hard to get a hold of!
great explanation of the sway bars Jack, there is lots of components under those cars that make them go fast, and have to be well thought out and made. cheers mate
Not wrong! Cheers!
That was cool Jack ,It was completely different to how i thought it was done.
Cheers!
Great episode thanks for explaining
Maybe you can explain what scenarios the driver would adjust the bars as they go round a track
Would they stiffen them for faster or slower corners?
Thanks and please keep teaching us this stuff
Thanks! You're welcome! It's not clear cut unfortunately, in terms of using the sway bars, it still works with shockers, spring rates etc. normally you start with a setup in the car and lets say it understeers in mid corner, then you can soften then front ARB or stiffen to rear ARB to help, but this can then cause oversteer also. It helps with setup direction for sure and a tuning tool for the driver whilst on track.
@@perkinsengineering thanks for the reply
Ah yeah I forgot that ARB doesn't just stop roll but what you do on the front can affect the rear and vice versa
It's a minefield!
When you said it connects to the diff housing, I was thinking, eh? Not on an IRS car
Correct, we do show it on the HRT car which has an independent rear end
Awesome Jack, thanks so much as always. Top notch 👍
Cheers
Some very gentlemanly driving on the weekend bud, commentators noticed it, they were kind enough to show a few examples. Elbows out come spring.
Yeah no point damaging the car for 11th position, we didn't have the speed or setup right, live to fight another day!
Jack great explanation of exactly what you need to do when need to change for certain times in a full race depending on tyres life also. 🎉😂👍
Yeah it does depend on the car and circuit. But generally speaking as the rear tyres lose grip and the fuel load drops the rear loses grip and you can soften the rear bar or stiffen the front but then you lose front grip also.
@@perkinsengineering Jack got the car's looking exactly as they were perfect. I remember you from a young blonde haired watching Dad at Bathurst. As a local that was all we wanted. 👍😂🆗🙏
Another excellent video Jack. Thanks for sharing 👍🏻👍🏻🙃🙃
Cheers and you're welcome!
Love these tech videos jack, thanks.
Cheers!
Love your work, Jack 👍
Cheers
Great explanation on the sway bar operation Jack. Where can people actually buy blade adjustable swaybars from, though?
Cheers. It's a good question, back in the day these would've been available from somewhere like Harrop Engineering, today I'm sure they're available from certain race car engineering places, but the best place to buy something from would be a Supercars team or former team like Garry Rogers Motorsport, for example, as they would have surplus spares from various cars over the years.
@@perkinsengineering thank you for your response to my question. I will give Garry Rodgers motor sport a try and see if I have any luck. Once again, great video on ARB operation
Nice one Jack. Thank you.
you're welcome! Cheers
Nice one!! Always wondered how those work. Very elegant solution.
Cheers!
Excellent Jack. Is there any chance on how roll centre works? Would love to know what is adjusted to raise or lower roll centre. Saw a demo when Skaife took a GRM car and had a rear roll adjustment done and it just about fixes the understeer. Love the content mate.
Yes it's just another tuning tool. The front roll centre is adjusted by shifting the suspension arms on a double wishbone setup. The rear roll centre is the same but for a rear end with diff housing not independent rear. Like any changes, they have a reaction at both ends. Rear roll centre up should help understeer but can cause rear over steer. Will look at doing a video on this for sure
Thanks Jack, I never knew they only had a blade on one side. 👍🏻🇦🇺
Same here, makes sense though now I guess
In the early days yes, but nowadays it's more common to have 2
Couldn't help but notice a huge rear axle bearing housing. Did that can have a c v joint allowing camber adjustment of the rear axle??
Yes, go back to Episode 18 for more detail on that
Very cool explanation, love these vids. With the single-side adjustable one, does that give an uneven feeling from side to side? So if you stiffen the bar, it’s obviously changing the blade on the left, but the right is still fixed….do you therefore feel a difference in roll stiffness depending on whether it’s a left or right corner? Or does it still feel the same because it’s essentially governed by the tube itself? Hope that makes sense…😊
No is the answer. It’s trying to twist the roll bar tube in roll, the tube doesn’t know which corner or direction it’s at just the roll of the body.
Cool. Thanks. 👍
You're welcome! Cheers!
Cool thanks mate
Cheers!
Always wonder how they worked , Cheers Jack .
You're welcome!
Great content Jack. Just a question, was the mounting points for the sway bars set by V8 Supercars at the time or was it team dependant?'
Cheers! Team dependant, theres general scope for location and the rest is team specific from a design and manufacturing point of view. Making these the same, and being specific with rules on the rockers and development would've saved each team a lot of money!
Really good visual aids you have there Jack. I now have an ice cream headache trying to visualize the ARB rockers on the COTF/Gen 2 cars. One question. In the early years of COTF teams had either the ARB winding handle or the quick adjust levers. Were both systems still a double bladed system?
Depends on the team, most likely adjusting two blades at once yes.
any idea where i can get parts like the blades and levers to build my own cockpit adjustable sway bar?
It's a good question. Many years ago you would've possibly been able to purchase something from Harrop Engineering. However, it would probably need to be made to order. You could reach out to some big teams like Garry Rogers Motorsport, Brad Jones Racing etc. who may be able to put together a kit for you. But be mindful that a GRM blade, for example, may not fit a BJR Roll Bar and then the adjusters suit each setup.
Were there still ARB adjustments during races in pitstops with blokes climbing underneath the 93 car to do it or did they have to be set prior and left in place for the whole race?
Yeah not likely during a race, normally set and forget. They may have contemplated it if it changed drastically from dry to wet conditions as an example.
That style of bar is generally set prior to the start. You can tune the car quickly track to track or even start to start. IF a wet race is expected you can change those bars before the race, even on the dummy grid.
I used a similar set up on my Sports sedan but simply a tube with the link over the sway bar, loosen jam nut and slide the sleeve back or forwards over the bar. Have done it during qualifying on several occasions,, a couple of min max. Could also change the rear roll centre in a pitstop, move the panhard up or down a hole.
@@ldnwholesale8552 cheers for all that info, very interesting to know..
I guess without the cockpit adjusters prior to 94 they really had to tweak their driving style according to changes in fuel load, tyre degradation etc, especially in a 160+ lap race on a 6km+ circut that has a 170m elevation change
So jack, when you have a blade on either side of the anti roll bar you said allows for more scope of tunability. Does that mean they both work independently of each other , say like you've got a problematic area of the track you've got to continually drive over and wrestle with bad camber or combined with turning there, will that harden up one side more than the other , or would that be a shock absorber setting ?
No they can’t really work independently but it gives you more “rates” of roll bar. You can adjust the bars corner to corner though
On the older cars they have a fixed and an adjustable blade. Does that mean stiffening or softening one side effects each side evenly handling wise? A combined and equal rigidity? I just recently fitted adjustable whiteline sway bars to my WM caprice and have been trialling the different settings
Yes evenly. Both blades twist the roll bar when the body rolls, the blades and bar don’t know which direction the corner is going
Softening or stiffening one blade affects both sides the same, because the bar and both blades work as one unit. If that makes sense
Hi mate just wondering if you sold that VL walkinshaw engine
Yes that’s sold
Hey Jack, What year did the in car adjustable rollbars come into effect? 94 or later than that?
I can’t speak on behalf of other cars and teams but PE’s first was 1994
where can i get those blades for the sway bar
Good question, we made our own, but don't have any surplus to sell unfortunately!
Just stuff mate.. I think larko needs a side kick at the big show
Haha thanks, it would be great to do more stuff on the tele!
Yay first again
Nice work!