Really with all the other choices that are out there this one excites you I've killed dozens of deer with a 300 blackout I've got buddies at hunt with them why do you need this round it's it's a round to solve a problem that didn't exist. Always hideously expensive unless you can get dyes and reload for it and then it's still going to be expensive I don't see why you'd be excited it's kind of cool but other than that meh..
Love a good semantics brawl! FINISH IT! And just for the record, the the 300 Whisper was never a SAAMI spec cartridge, it was only ever a wildcat. Then, AAC picked up the ball, worked the case and bullet combination and eventually presented the package for SAAMI acceptance. So JD might have had the 300 Whisper, but a 300 Whisper is not a 300 Blackout. Semantics people, semantics! 🖕🏻
I was super excited about this round until I actually started to build and reload it. The 1:3 twist adds one benefit but no-one talked about the many drawbacks. More twist means you have to consider rotational drift, also many bullets don’t like being spun at 1/2 million RPM and high rotational speed means your bullet doesn’t rotate in flight like other bullets…think over stabilization
4drentals.com/product/8-6-creedmoor-338-creedmoor/ here is a link to the barrel reamer you can get custom dies made i have and I can tell you it's fantastic the subs are amazing like crazy quiet
I almost did, but I emailed them about plans to support this and they said no... I was pissed. So I'm building my own. But the rogue would be about perfect. Maybe they just snubbed me and they'll make a barrel after all. *edit* I just emailed them again. No reply.
They were originally going with metric and "8.6 creedmoor" since they were working on it with hornady, and creedmoor uses metric nomenclature. But since it's not a long range bench round, but more like the 300 blk, the blackout name seems to have stuck... but the 8.6 made it distinct from other 338s out there, like fed.
I absolutely love my 300 blackout gun, but I think the 8.6 will be a much better all around gun. The 300 will still be my "home" weapon just because of it's size and weight. It sounds like the right build for me if I can get a 14.5" barrel to pin and weld so I can have a "short" rifle without having to deal with the SBR/Pistol BS, but with more power behind that round with such a short barrel.
I'm a Aussie and would love a Q honey badger ,i have a few gel blaster and they are like the original honey badger and some are like the Q honey badger and would love to have a holiday and visit Q and get to watch some being built 🤣👍and don't worry i will bring beer
True, but I like what he's doing here more. The bullet tech is better now than when the whispers rolled out. And this was designed with effective supersonic performance in mind. JDJ made wildcats. This will be mainstream... factory available for the average Joe. Also the case specs and proprietary projectiles make this a more developed product vs the 300 blk-v-whisper situation.
@@ravissary79 There is a flaw in your argument. You say that it will be more available for the average person but then you say that the bullet is proprietary. What proprietary ammo is available and not overpriced that you know of?
@@bigredone1030 that's not a flaw in my argument, it's not even an argument. One is a wildcat. One is factory. Wildcats fail if they rely on proprietary parts. The more common the parts are you need to make the novel round, the better. But you NEED to be able to have the barrel and brass custom or low volume made, or make it easy to make by a person with the right tools. But MOST people who shoot can't do that stuff. They don't reload, and they defiantly don't make their own brass or swage or cast their own bullets. But factory ammo solves all of that. The average Joe can buy it, stores he visits might have a gun that can shoot it. Demand or lack might make some loads or cartridges scarce, but at least they're made and if you plan ahead you can get it. Factory ammo typically uses proprietary bullets. They develop them for specific cartridges. Hornady makes virtually ALL of their own projectiles and brass. That makes it all proprietary. It's not generic, it's all hornady, and it's made for THAT cartridge. The JDJ 338 whisper (type 1) looks similar to the 8.6. However it required custom trimed and formed brass, and required 338 projectiles not designed for that round. This th subs topped out at what you could get for 338 lapua and pretty much none expanded at subsonic velocities. And the JDJ round had less case volume than the 8.6, wasn't intended for gas guns, and supersonic performance wasn't a design goal, which is why type 1 was abandoned for type 2 which had hardly any case volume at all. And proprietary bullets are important if you want low drag expanding subsonics, and proprietary bullets are what you want if you want longer, lighter, non-exploding supersonics. Going mainstream with big name factory support alows this round to develop beyond the basic idea of the wildcat that likely inspired it. And this gives it an unforseen application in totally different kinds of weapons than JD anticipated.
So at least $5,500 in ammo? It's going to be at least $2.75 per round. Gorilla ammo has 2 offerings (still not released) and they're both $55 for 20rds. The hornady offerings will likely be $3 per round or more. And it'll stay that way for a while. Like, years and years. This isn't going to be a fun range plinker. Maybe it'll get down to $1.50 per round in about 10 years if it catches some popularity, but until that happens no one is going to be buying thousands of rounds for the range.
The Q Fix is featured on some of kitbadgers videos. He also has a noveske in another video, but it's a minimal custom job. It's more likely to be featured in the Leonidas, which Kitbadger featured in his coast to coast videos. Personally I wish the Leonidas used a larger honeybadger style brace. It's so much more aesthetically distinct and pleasing .
Because of high twist I wonder if jacketed bullets might work for subs... increased expansion due to spin. Going lead has value for mass per length, but if it can't expand and hold together that's less important.
They're saying that when the round expands the pedals twist as the pull back. So instead of having pedals that are pealed straight back they will have an obvious twist to them when you pull them out of gel, or whatever animal it's in. And that's because of the super fast twist from the barrel. Sounds awesome. I want to see it.
Hmmmmm so one goes to SSK Inc (JD jones) website take the 300 whisper change its name to 300 blackout with limited changes and submit it to saami than we have a 300 blackout, than one goes back to the SSK Inc and take the .338 whisper and do the same thing and come up with the 8.6 blackout, i have been shooting the 338 whisper for many many years
"And Kevin went back to Sig..." Is it any coincidence they then produced the Cross rifle with the 277 Fury cartridge??? Hmmmm. But I think for most people, an accurate, quiet, hard hitting subsonic will be crowned king.
Put me on the list of people that only cares about subsonic. Also, I love hornaday, but it sucks that they're thin brass is being used imo. Overall I'm stupid excited to get into this caliber!
Good question MrParker1, .300BLK is based off of the .300 Whisper, but they have differences. 300BLK essentially standardized and improved upon the .300 Whisper concept. 300BLK uses a 5.56 case instead of a 221 Fireball, has difference case dimensions, and has standardized loads/pressure.
I wonder if the fast twist rate can also increase the energy of a lighter 5.56 round out of a short barrel, since in that case there's plenty of gas/propellant/force, but not as much space to accelerate.
@@SilencerShop No problem! Should also note that it may make hollow points more effective out of short barrels by facilitating expansion/separation of petals using increased rotation instead of higher velocity.
I believe what they are referring to in relation is gyroscopic stability regarding heavy bullets vs. lighter bullets they need the faster twist 1:3 to stabilize the heavy bullets at sub sonic velocities similar to how bullets behave when they reach the transonic zone in long range shooting I believe not a ballistics expert
.375 Raptor Fury. 160 Grain A.P. at 3800 FPS. 80 Grain A.P. at 4500 FPS. 300 Grain SMK at 2750 FPS. Brah tah. Tok tah. Takes out BTR80s and whatever else. Available in 500 grain Raufoss. 19 rounds AR10....Raufaus? Are you serious Jay Pee? That's awesome buddy. I'm a genius. Move over Cobra Assault Cannon Robocop 1987.
The market is getting crowded with competitors trying to introduce the "300BLK for AR-10s". How does this cartridge compare to direct competitors? From memory, last SHOT Show we saw the arrival of the .500 Blackout and .475 Bishop. The year before we saw the introduction of the .500 AutoMax. A few years earlier we saw the .510 Beck, but that never took off. All of those cartridges fit in a conventional .308 Winchester AR and offer supersonic and subsonic loadings. They're pretty much all different stabs at the same concept. There are also niche large-frame ARs with longer actions for magnum rifle rounds, but I won't even get into those. So what's unique and good about the 8.6 Creedmoor? Is it a technological improvement over previously developed comparable cartridges, or is it's main advantage that it's a comparable cartridge with superior mainstream industry support? As was the case with 6.5 Creedmoor over .260 Remington, 300 AAC Blackout over .300 Whisper, and 6mm ARC over 6mm AR.
Just like he said "300 Blackout of AR-10 Rifle", this ammo performance is comparable to other cartridge on class from short barrel (early prototype data that were released showed 155gr bullet moving at 2500ft/s for supersonic ammo and 300gr bullet moving at 1000ft/s for subsonic ammo from 12.5 inches barrel).
Hi Home, great question. Rotational energy will help the projectiles flight path by spinning the projectile as it cuts through the air. A better flight path can translate to a higher energy hit. Thanks again for your comment.
I haven't seen the numbers, either, but it's very possible for a big-bore short-action case to have energy for cape buffalo in a supersonic loading. There are other AR-10s on the market firing big-bore cartridges that should meet energy minimum requirements for cap buffalo. I expect this 8.6 will have highly potent supersonic loadings available that will make it perform on game as a magnum rifle cartridge.
@@Paelorian I don’t think you understand. Some countries have a legal requirement for 3900 ft/lbs in order to hunt dg. Some countries don’t and obviously you could probably use it in those countries but I doubt anyone will think it’s wise.
@@K-bob_45 I did understand. There are AR cartridges exceeding 3900 ft/lbs. For example, .500 Auto Max and .475 Bishop fit in AR-10s using mostly the same parts designed for 7.62x51mm. Their magazines are single-stack to accommodate the larger cartridges. Buffalo Bore sells .500 Auto Max ammo up to 4110 ft/lbs. .475 Bishop loads are available up to about 5400 ft/lbs. There are speciality ARs with larger receivers firing other powerful rounds like .500 Blackout which is similar to .510 Whisper and over 6000 ft/lbs in supersonic loadings. I'll also note that there are few other powerful big bore magnum rifle cartridges chambered for semi-autos that are not ARs. The Browning BAR (and later the Benelli R1) rifles have long been available in .338 Winchester Magnum and the Russian Tigr-9 (civilian hunting variant of the much heavier Dragunov SVDK) is chambered in 9.3x64mm Brenneke. But newer ARs have surpassed the power of other semi-autos (not counting anti-materiel rifles like the Barrett M82 totally unsuitable for hunting). Where legal I would prefer to carry one of these newer big-bore ARs on a cape buffalo hunt. They're lightweight and handy and manage recoil well. They can be made to work very well with a suppressor, and these rounds are often designed with suppressed use in mind. They are powerful enough. You can have the muzzle energy of a .375 H&H, but with heavier and larger caliber bullets fired out of a more efficient cartridge with less recoil. Or even more powerful rounds. I haven't seen Q's new round but competitors have proven that an AR cartridge can indeed have plenty of power for cape buffalo and other tough big game.
@@Paelorian so I had never heard of those rounds and they are neat but I wouldn’t take either of them tbh. The 500 auto max would be the clear choice btw the two if I had to though so I wouldn’t be stuck paying 189$ per 20 for the 475. But still both are ice skating uphill. Earlier this year I bought a model 70 in 416 rem mag for 1200$ vs the 3k they charge for that 475 AR. I can get factory Barnes 400 gr ammo at 2420 ft/sec for as low as 75$ but usually right at 100$ per 20. The rifle is cheaper and likely more reliable, the cartridge is more powerful at 5k ft/lbs, the ammo is cheaper, and the bullets have better sectional density. I say more reliable especially in regard to the 475 which operates at 65 ksi according to the mfg which is a little crazy in my opinion. Back to the cartridge in question the 8.6 IF it would push a 250 gr bullet at 2500 ft/sec, which is probably generous, it would produce 3500 ft/lbs. nothing to sneeze at by any means but note enough to meet legal requirements in countries that have requirements. Even if we decided it was enough between the two of us you don’t hear PH’s recommending the more powerful 338 win mag for cape buff.
Seriously, what the hell does the twist rate have to do with muzzle energy? Common thinking says more friction and drag on the bullet would you lose velocity not gain it
The fast twist rate exchanges energy in the bullet velocity for energy in the rotational speed in the bullet. Think like this: over the same amount of powder, the bullet put through the faster twist rate will be spinning faster but traveling slower than the bullet put through the slower twist rate. It's the same amount of energy in the bullet, just one is spinning faster and the other is traveling faster. Whether this translates into effective terminal energy on target is uncertain, but it's clear Q's engineers say it does.
@@Horseshoecrabwarrior Spin of a bullet means nothing for actual energy, you can see this in action with the switch from 1:12 to 1:7 in ARs. There's no real change in velocity, but 1:12 is more effective terminally because rifle bullets wound through destabilizing and tumbling. It looks like more gee wiz bullshit like every other SHOT show. A 1:2 barrel is neat, sub MOA subsonics are neat but claiming more energy on target with no actual basis for the claim is BS
@@Robert-qm7yi I do see what you mean. Theoretically, the spin energy makes some sense, but I'm gonna hold off on putting cash down until some independent reviewers get their hands on it. I'm from Missouri, so they're gonna have to show me it has more energy, they can't just say it.
@@Horseshoecrabwarrior Honestly I don't know why they even said it true or not. They have plenty of selling points with the subsonic performance, the supposed ease of going from subs to supers. It's a really neat cartridge without all the salesman fluff
Hey Robert, Appreciate you reaching out. There are some studies online that show a lower twist rate does increase energy, marginally. More importantly it helps stabilize heavier and slower projectiles. Q has spent a long time developing this caliber and they chose the faster twist rate for good reason. Thank you for trusting us!
Since the the 8.6 uses a modified 6.5 creedmoor, yes, the AR-10 bolt will work just fine, you’ll only need to change the barrel. Magazines could need a little filling on the sides like the .375 Raptor, but OAL of the 8.6 is short enough to fit them.
@@Roadiedave ah, see. That’s a good question. Judging from the side by side pictures, I don’t believe it’s possible with a 6.5 CM chamber, the necks are at the same location and very different in size. The .308 win chamber on the other hand? Yeah, I can see that happening: the brass body is longer and the external neck diameter is large enough to let a .338 bullet go through. The only thing that might prevent the chambering of a 8.6 blk is the fact that .308 win is slight more tapered, about .005” smaller just bellow the neck. In a loose chamber, that’s definitely a possibility.
Gosh, with everything going on I wish I'd gotten my suppressor early for this round. The changing political climate might make it hard to get one soon. Too much fear, too many jack boots. I just want a large platform style pistol that, when suppressed, gives you the "in the moment" quiet, nature awareness and weight savings of a bow, but with better power and precision on tap. (Yes I know a good bowhunter can drop an elk with a broad head and get prefer shots, but all too often wounding happens. Something like this might be easier to get an ethical hit with, while being whisper quiet and serene in nature)
Hello Mackenzie, Appreciate you working with us. Note: due to big tech “Community Guidelines” about “regulated goods” this should be considered for informational purposes only and there are no firearm sales/orders being taken for these items within this space. Thank you again for reaching out and we’d be glad to connect via phone if you’d like additional technical details.
This isn't the first time I've heard Brittingham say faster twist for more energy on target. I have yet to see any tests that prove this. Energy is a function of the bullet's velocity and its weight, not how fast it is spinning. Besides, we're talking subsonics, so at the "perfect" subsonic speed of 1050 FPS, a 1:7 twist spins the bullet at 108,000 RPM. At 1:5.5, which he uses on some of his stuff, is 137,454 RPM. Both of those rates are significantly less than any normal rifle rates. Heck, a 5.56 shooting 55 grainers at 3200 FPS is spinning the bullet over 280,000 RPM. Sorry, just not buying it.
He’s probably referring to its rotational KE, not tangential KE. Not sure how much that actually impacts “damage” but it is true that a spinning body has more overall kinetic energy than one which is not spinning and is moving at the same velocity.
But yeah I agree. A lot of claims flying around that are somewhat hard to really be sure of. It could be a matter of optimality? Like I know from when I was in school there’s all sorts of trade offs in the way all the different equations solve out and impact each other when it comes to tangentially spinning bodies (ones that spin with the spin vector pointing in the same direction they’re traveling aka bullets).
@@etheretherether The spin vector of a bullet is 90 degrees from direction of travel. At subsonic speeds, the difference betwen 1:7 and 1:5.5 twists in not much, especially compared to super sonic speeds. It is possible to over spin a bullet and it either comes apart after exiting the barrel, or it negatively affects accuracy.
Yikes, moderated comments section...? would be nice to see a 3rd party posting actual data and testing on this mystical round. But since they still haven't published what the loadings will be for it several years after the hype videos were first posted who knows(let alone have commercial ammo offerings). Maybe it's propelled by unicorns.
I don't buy the claims made about the cartridge. There is no such thing as free lunch in physics. I find it very hard to believe that twist rate alone has much to do with kinetic energy. It's a very heavy bullet on top of a small powder charge, sent through a very short barrel. That 1:3 twist rate's real purpose is to stabilize a long and heavy subsonic bullet; the "rotational energy" is a marketing gimmick. I challenge anyone to prove that it significantly outperforms a full length .308 of the same bullet weight. 8.6 BLK is ballistically just a weak .338 federal..... whose parent case is-you guessed it, .308. Minimum legal energy for Cape buffalo is 3970 FPE (5400 Joules). That is quite a stretch for this round at any yardage (if it will even produce that at the muzzle). I am all for ingenuity and innovation, but don't make false claims. This cartridge would be much cooler if there was more honesty about its intention. What I see is a cartridge for a short range hunting rifle, capable of game up to elk at 200 yards and closer, while not being too heavy or long with a suppressor. A very handy and quiet woods gun. Not a Safari Big 5 caliber, or a .308 killer.
yo KB, you can get a lot more done (and get the damn 8.6 to market) if you would wear real shoes, instead of loafing around in those shower slippers........btw my $ are waiting patiently
@@kevinbrittingham6774 Dude. Kevin. You admitted to blocking ppl when the HB bullshit first dropped on the original account. Then you or IG nuked that account. You we're definitely purging people on the old account, no clue what you're doing on the new one.
@@aermotors so, you saying stop blocking people from an account that no longer exists? No one is blocked from the new account. But, will block people if they troll.
God im so excited this is exactly what i have been looking for in my hunting round! Short barrel extended sub ranges for suppressor shooting
Really with all the other choices that are out there this one excites you I've killed dozens of deer with a 300 blackout I've got buddies at hunt with them why do you need this round it's it's a round to solve a problem that didn't exist.
Always hideously expensive unless you can get dyes and reload for it and then it's still going to be expensive I don't see why you'd be excited it's kind of cool but other than that meh..
Subsonic at 400 yds??? Holy Wow!!! Accurately??? I'M IN!!! VERY INTERESTED!!!
I made one in a mdr it's so much fun ringing steel at 350
@@ericmartini2980 how did you make a 8.6 blk in an MDR? The chamber specs aren't even out yet.
@@ravissary79 the 8.6cm reamers are out with the specs 4drentals has them
@@ericmartini2980 what twist did you go with?
@@ravissary79 1/2
What a time to be alive. So much innovation
I can’t wait to test this out.
I’ve been waiting for this, next best thing to me since Kevin thought up the 300BLK
Lol he never thought it up.
@@buttpirate57 JD Jones
@@buttpirate57 yes I did, u lil hater.
@@billstevens5277 JD did Whisper. It failed the .mil requirements. BLK was adopted. 🤷🏽♂️
Love a good semantics brawl! FINISH IT! And just for the record, the the 300 Whisper was never a SAAMI spec cartridge, it was only ever a wildcat. Then, AAC picked up the ball, worked the case and bullet combination and eventually presented the package for SAAMI acceptance. So JD might have had the 300 Whisper, but a 300 Whisper is not a 300 Blackout. Semantics people, semantics! 🖕🏻
I was super excited about this round until I actually started to build and reload it. The 1:3 twist adds one benefit but no-one talked about the many drawbacks. More twist means you have to consider rotational drift, also many bullets don’t like being spun at 1/2 million RPM and high rotational speed means your bullet doesn’t rotate in flight like other bullets…think over stabilization
Definitely need a 8.6 Fix in my life! 🇺🇸👍🏼
I can't wait. My company will be making some 8.6 rifle/pistols.
Kevin you are the man I can't wait till this thing hits the market
Hi Mackenzie, Thanks for watching!
I need an 8.6 fix barrel ..... and some of those pants ...
4drentals.com/product/8-6-creedmoor-338-creedmoor/ here is a link to the barrel reamer you can get custom dies made i have and I can tell you it's fantastic the subs are amazing like crazy quiet
me too and the porkchop. i should have the jumbo shrimp any day now.
Yes! This is finally coming together and happening!
I am concerned about the “Not SAMI rated,” disclaimer I keep seeing that it might not function.
So it's 338 whisper without the baggage?
I am definitely interested in building one!
Can not waitttttttt, bought a POF just for this
I almost did, but I emailed them about plans to support this and they said no... I was pissed. So I'm building my own. But the rogue would be about perfect.
Maybe they just snubbed me and they'll make a barrel after all.
*edit*
I just emailed them again. No reply.
@@ravissary79 faxon is making the first barrels, it seems. Should be released in a couple months. They keep saying end of q1/ beginning of q2.
@@IDK_what_TO_call_IT_ yeah I just saw that great news from Faxon. I couldn't be more pleased. They're a stellar barrel maker.
Why not call it 338 Blackout tho?
They were originally going with metric and "8.6 creedmoor" since they were working on it with hornady, and creedmoor uses metric nomenclature.
But since it's not a long range bench round, but more like the 300 blk, the blackout name seems to have stuck... but the 8.6 made it distinct from other 338s out there, like fed.
Eight six sounds cool.
Because 6.8 cartridges are the new hotness. So it’s only right to go 8.6. Flip em on they heads
😐
All I want is an M1A in springfield 8.6 creedmoor. I do not care what it will cost.
So when’s a .50 projectile getting shoved into a .338 case...? I’m only semi joking, love the innovation coming out of Q!
Wouldn't surprise me if that's next. 510 Whisper is a thing and they could easily adapt that next.
It's a cool idea but .50 cal silencers are huge, that's a lot of gas volume.
I remember someone was working on 500 blackout in a semiauto dont remember who , just that they also make a 338 lapua semiauto
@@nestorarcilaosorio2457 Condition Red Ordinance Manufacturing CR-7 Rifle (500 Blackout)
@@zidniafifamani2378 Thanks.
Wonder how this will actually perform 🤔 just saw the Faxon barrels at shot show 2022
I absolutely love my 300 blackout gun, but I think the 8.6 will be a much better all around gun. The 300 will still be my "home" weapon just because of it's size and weight. It sounds like the right build for me if I can get a 14.5" barrel to pin and weld so I can have a "short" rifle without having to deal with the SBR/Pistol BS, but with more power behind that round with such a short barrel.
Sounds great
Make an effective .556 sabot round please. Give us that sweet 3600 fps on-demand, hopefully within 2 or 3 MOA
I love the honey badger just sitting there.
Sweet! 👊🏼 Carry On
I'm a Aussie and would love a Q honey badger ,i have a few gel blaster and they are like the original honey badger and some are like the Q honey badger and would love to have a holiday and visit Q and get to watch some being built 🤣👍and don't worry i will bring beer
Will there be a bigger badger in 8.6? A 12” badger at 7lbs…and I’m hard.
JD Jones already went down this line of thought decades ago. Look up whisper cartridge family
True, but I like what he's doing here more. The bullet tech is better now than when the whispers rolled out. And this was designed with effective supersonic performance in mind.
JDJ made wildcats. This will be mainstream... factory available for the average Joe.
Also the case specs and proprietary projectiles make this a more developed product vs the 300 blk-v-whisper situation.
@@ravissary79 There is a flaw in your argument. You say that it will be more available for the average person but then you say that the bullet is proprietary. What proprietary ammo is available and not overpriced that you know of?
@@bigredone1030 that's not a flaw in my argument, it's not even an argument.
One is a wildcat. One is factory.
Wildcats fail if they rely on proprietary parts. The more common the parts are you need to make the novel round, the better.
But you NEED to be able to have the barrel and brass custom or low volume made, or make it easy to make by a person with the right tools.
But MOST people who shoot can't do that stuff. They don't reload, and they defiantly don't make their own brass or swage or cast their own bullets.
But factory ammo solves all of that. The average Joe can buy it, stores he visits might have a gun that can shoot it. Demand or lack might make some loads or cartridges scarce, but at least they're made and if you plan ahead you can get it.
Factory ammo typically uses proprietary bullets. They develop them for specific cartridges. Hornady makes virtually ALL of their own projectiles and brass. That makes it all proprietary. It's not generic, it's all hornady, and it's made for THAT cartridge.
The JDJ 338 whisper (type 1) looks similar to the 8.6. However it required custom trimed and formed brass, and required 338 projectiles not designed for that round. This th subs topped out at what you could get for 338 lapua and pretty much none expanded at subsonic velocities.
And the JDJ round had less case volume than the 8.6, wasn't intended for gas guns, and supersonic performance wasn't a design goal, which is why type 1 was abandoned for type 2 which had hardly any case volume at all.
And proprietary bullets are important if you want low drag expanding subsonics, and proprietary bullets are what you want if you want longer, lighter, non-exploding supersonics.
Going mainstream with big name factory support alows this round to develop beyond the basic idea of the wildcat that likely inspired it. And this gives it an unforseen application in totally different kinds of weapons than JD anticipated.
Buuuut, couldn’t finish it and make it mainstream. 🤷🏽♂️
So what mistakes were made with 300 blackout? If the round can be improved why not do it since it's so popular?
Why do you think there is mistakes?
@@fnxtugboat3541 he said they made mistakes with 300 blackout when making it.
@@joejr9653 probably barrel twist rates and finding optimum bullets to go with the twists.
Mistakes in development, not really mistakes in the round. Also unless there is large improvement, it will be harder to get people to switch again
you could always make it .277
Awesome news this a.m.!!!.... I'll take 2 please, and just go ahead set aside 1k subsonic, and 1k supers for this guy right here!!! Great news!
So at least $5,500 in ammo? It's going to be at least $2.75 per round. Gorilla ammo has 2 offerings (still not released) and they're both $55 for 20rds. The hornady offerings will likely be $3 per round or more. And it'll stay that way for a while. Like, years and years.
This isn't going to be a fun range plinker. Maybe it'll get down to $1.50 per round in about 10 years if it catches some popularity, but until that happens no one is going to be buying thousands of rounds for the range.
I wonder what's a quality knife company in kevin and q's mind
HELL YES !!! I LOVE THIS 8.6
👍
Can you guys show us the rifles from Noveske and Q that will be shooting the 8.6 round?
The Q Fix is featured on some of kitbadgers videos.
He also has a noveske in another video, but it's a minimal custom job. It's more likely to be featured in the Leonidas, which Kitbadger featured in his coast to coast videos.
Personally I wish the Leonidas used a larger honeybadger style brace. It's so much more aesthetically distinct and pleasing .
I want to get on list for 8.6 fix pistol
If they ever get to resume sales of fix pistols...
What I have said for years - fully developed the ammunition then tick boxes for capabilities of ammunition - then build weapon platform 😏
Why would you develop a round and not know it's capabilities?
Because of high twist I wonder if jacketed bullets might work for subs... increased expansion due to spin. Going lead has value for mass per length, but if it can't expand and hold together that's less important.
They're saying that when the round expands the pedals twist as the pull back. So instead of having pedals that are pealed straight back they will have an obvious twist to them when you pull them out of gel, or whatever animal it's in. And that's because of the super fast twist from the barrel. Sounds awesome.
I want to see it.
Hmmmmm so one goes to SSK Inc (JD jones) website take the 300 whisper change its name to 300 blackout with limited changes and submit it to saami than we have a 300 blackout, than one goes back to the SSK Inc and take the .338 whisper and do the same thing and come up with the 8.6 blackout, i have been shooting the 338 whisper for many many years
Man!!! I just soiled myself, I know what my next project and toy is going to be now!
Hey J, we’re glad you’re as excited as we are!
"And Kevin went back to Sig..."
Is it any coincidence they then produced the Cross rifle with the 277 Fury cartridge??? Hmmmm. But I think for most people, an accurate, quiet, hard hitting subsonic will be crowned king.
I need that hoodie
Super interested but 308 runs 75c for decent loads, 8.6 seems to be at $3.00. Hopefully that comes down as more manufacturers start making it
Hi Bobby, Appreciate you sharing.
383 has been a small volume caliber diameter, good luck. How close will it be to 383 Whisper stats?
Put me on the list of people that only cares about subsonic. Also, I love hornaday, but it sucks that they're thin brass is being used imo. Overall I'm stupid excited to get into this caliber!
What about fouling at 1:3 twist rate?
You think I could still shoot 338 Federal out of an 8.6 upper?
When can we look forward to getting the fix in 8.6 blackout?
@Q LLC POV?
Isn't .300 blk simply .300 whisper with a SAAMI spec? So saying he developed it means he just formally submitted his favorite load data?
Good question MrParker1, .300BLK is based off of the .300 Whisper, but they have differences. 300BLK essentially standardized and improved upon the .300 Whisper concept. 300BLK uses a 5.56 case instead of a 221 Fireball, has difference case dimensions, and has standardized loads/pressure.
I wonder if the fast twist rate can also increase the energy of a lighter 5.56 round out of a short barrel, since in that case there's plenty of gas/propellant/force, but not as much space to accelerate.
Hey english, Appreciate you sharing that POV.
@@SilencerShop No problem! Should also note that it may make hollow points more effective out of short barrels by facilitating expansion/separation of petals using increased rotation instead of higher velocity.
I believe what they are referring to in relation is gyroscopic stability regarding heavy bullets vs. lighter bullets they need the faster twist 1:3 to stabilize the heavy bullets at sub sonic velocities similar to how bullets behave when they reach the transonic zone in long range shooting I believe not a ballistics expert
.375 Raptor Fury.
160 Grain A.P. at 3800 FPS.
80 Grain A.P. at 4500 FPS.
300 Grain SMK at 2750 FPS.
Brah tah. Tok tah.
Takes out BTR80s and whatever else.
Available in 500 grain Raufoss.
19 rounds AR10....Raufaus? Are you serious Jay Pee? That's awesome buddy.
I'm a genius.
Move over Cobra Assault Cannon Robocop 1987.
What powder are you guys using in your test loads,?
Different question - what is the suppressor on the pistol in the background. Excellent Video
Q Erector 9. Idk if it’s officially released yet but it should be soon.
The market is getting crowded with competitors trying to introduce the "300BLK for AR-10s". How does this cartridge compare to direct competitors? From memory, last SHOT Show we saw the arrival of the .500 Blackout and .475 Bishop. The year before we saw the introduction of the .500 AutoMax. A few years earlier we saw the .510 Beck, but that never took off. All of those cartridges fit in a conventional .308 Winchester AR and offer supersonic and subsonic loadings. They're pretty much all different stabs at the same concept. There are also niche large-frame ARs with longer actions for magnum rifle rounds, but I won't even get into those.
So what's unique and good about the 8.6 Creedmoor? Is it a technological improvement over previously developed comparable cartridges, or is it's main advantage that it's a comparable cartridge with superior mainstream industry support? As was the case with 6.5 Creedmoor over .260 Remington, 300 AAC Blackout over .300 Whisper, and 6mm ARC over 6mm AR.
Just like he said "300 Blackout of AR-10 Rifle", this ammo performance is comparable to other cartridge on class from short barrel (early prototype data that were released showed 155gr bullet moving at 2500ft/s for supersonic ammo and 300gr bullet moving at 1000ft/s for subsonic ammo from 12.5 inches barrel).
There are no competitors.
Isn't supersonic just 338 federal?
I want the 8.6 really badly, but only if I can get ammo for it
Where can I get the barrel for it? And when do you think can I buy this ammo in Germany?
Hi Hunter, Great question but we aren't the best resource for Germany. Thanks for watching!
Rotational energy delivers energy to target in what way?
Hi Home, great question. Rotational energy will help the projectiles flight path by spinning the projectile as it cuts through the air. A better flight path can translate to a higher energy hit. Thanks again for your comment.
Woot woot 👍🏼🇺🇸
When will it be able to purchase? And cost please
I cant say Ive ever seen tactical flip flops before. Judges? We'll allow it.
TacFlops!!
Still waiting on this and all I hear is crickets........ chirp chirp
Highly doubt this round will meet minimum energy for cape buff as suggested
You certainly don't want one of them pissed off with you!
I haven't seen the numbers, either, but it's very possible for a big-bore short-action case to have energy for cape buffalo in a supersonic loading. There are other AR-10s on the market firing big-bore cartridges that should meet energy minimum requirements for cap buffalo. I expect this 8.6 will have highly potent supersonic loadings available that will make it perform on game as a magnum rifle cartridge.
@@Paelorian I don’t think you understand. Some countries have a legal requirement for 3900 ft/lbs in order to hunt dg. Some countries don’t and obviously you could probably use it in those countries but I doubt anyone will think it’s wise.
@@K-bob_45 I did understand. There are AR cartridges exceeding 3900 ft/lbs. For example, .500 Auto Max and .475 Bishop fit in AR-10s using mostly the same parts designed for 7.62x51mm. Their magazines are single-stack to accommodate the larger cartridges. Buffalo Bore sells .500 Auto Max ammo up to 4110 ft/lbs. .475 Bishop loads are available up to about 5400 ft/lbs. There are speciality ARs with larger receivers firing other powerful rounds like .500 Blackout which is similar to .510 Whisper and over 6000 ft/lbs in supersonic loadings.
I'll also note that there are few other powerful big bore magnum rifle cartridges chambered for semi-autos that are not ARs. The Browning BAR (and later the Benelli R1) rifles have long been available in .338 Winchester Magnum and the Russian Tigr-9 (civilian hunting variant of the much heavier Dragunov SVDK) is chambered in 9.3x64mm Brenneke. But newer ARs have surpassed the power of other semi-autos (not counting anti-materiel rifles like the Barrett M82 totally unsuitable for hunting).
Where legal I would prefer to carry one of these newer big-bore ARs on a cape buffalo hunt. They're lightweight and handy and manage recoil well. They can be made to work very well with a suppressor, and these rounds are often designed with suppressed use in mind. They are powerful enough. You can have the muzzle energy of a .375 H&H, but with heavier and larger caliber bullets fired out of a more efficient cartridge with less recoil. Or even more powerful rounds. I haven't seen Q's new round but competitors have proven that an AR cartridge can indeed have plenty of power for cape buffalo and other tough big game.
@@Paelorian so I had never heard of those rounds and they are neat but I wouldn’t take either of them tbh. The 500 auto max would be the clear choice btw the two if I had to though so I wouldn’t be stuck paying 189$ per 20 for the 475. But still both are ice skating uphill. Earlier this year I bought a model 70 in 416 rem mag for 1200$ vs the 3k they charge for that 475 AR. I can get factory Barnes 400 gr ammo at 2420 ft/sec for as low as 75$ but usually right at 100$ per 20. The rifle is cheaper and likely more reliable, the cartridge is more powerful at 5k ft/lbs, the ammo is cheaper, and the bullets have better sectional density. I say more reliable especially in regard to the 475 which operates at 65 ksi according to the mfg which is a little crazy in my opinion.
Back to the cartridge in question the 8.6 IF it would push a 250 gr bullet at 2500 ft/sec, which is probably generous, it would produce 3500 ft/lbs. nothing to sneeze at by any means but note enough to meet legal requirements in countries that have requirements. Even if we decided it was enough between the two of us you don’t hear PH’s recommending the more powerful 338 win mag for cape buff.
When was 6.5 Creedmoor $1 per round?
Seriously, what the hell does the twist rate have to do with muzzle energy? Common thinking says more friction and drag on the bullet would you lose velocity not gain it
The fast twist rate exchanges energy in the bullet velocity for energy in the rotational speed in the bullet.
Think like this: over the same amount of powder, the bullet put through the faster twist rate will be spinning faster but traveling slower than the bullet put through the slower twist rate. It's the same amount of energy in the bullet, just one is spinning faster and the other is traveling faster.
Whether this translates into effective terminal energy on target is uncertain, but it's clear Q's engineers say it does.
@@Horseshoecrabwarrior Spin of a bullet means nothing for actual energy, you can see this in action with the switch from 1:12 to 1:7 in ARs. There's no real change in velocity, but 1:12 is more effective terminally because rifle bullets wound through destabilizing and tumbling.
It looks like more gee wiz bullshit like every other SHOT show.
A 1:2 barrel is neat, sub MOA subsonics are neat but claiming more energy on target with no actual basis for the claim is BS
@@Robert-qm7yi I do see what you mean. Theoretically, the spin energy makes some sense, but I'm gonna hold off on putting cash down until some independent reviewers get their hands on it. I'm from Missouri, so they're gonna have to show me it has more energy, they can't just say it.
@@Horseshoecrabwarrior Honestly I don't know why they even said it true or not. They have plenty of selling points with the subsonic performance, the supposed ease of going from subs to supers. It's a really neat cartridge without all the salesman fluff
Hey Robert, Appreciate you reaching out. There are some studies online that show a lower twist rate does increase energy, marginally. More importantly it helps stabilize heavier and slower projectiles. Q has spent a long time developing this caliber and they chose the faster twist rate for good reason. Thank you for trusting us!
I have one big concern...and it's big. Will 8.6 chamber in a .308/7.62, or 6.5 Creedmoore like a .300 Blackout in a .223/5.56?
Since the the 8.6 uses a modified 6.5 creedmoor, yes, the AR-10 bolt will work just fine, you’ll only need to change the barrel. Magazines could need a little filling on the sides like the .375 Raptor, but OAL of the 8.6 is short enough to fit them.
@@VincitOmniaVeritas7 I was more concerned that accidentally loading an 8.6 into a 6.5 or 7.62 might chamber and fire causing the gun to explode.
@@Roadiedave ah, see. That’s a good question. Judging from the side by side pictures, I don’t believe it’s possible with a 6.5 CM chamber, the necks are at the same location and very different in size. The .308 win chamber on the other hand? Yeah, I can see that happening: the brass body is longer and the external neck diameter is large enough to let a .338 bullet go through. The only thing that might prevent the chambering of a 8.6 blk is the fact that .308 win is slight more tapered, about .005” smaller just bellow the neck. In a loose chamber, that’s definitely a possibility.
I need this in my life.
Gosh, with everything going on I wish I'd gotten my suppressor early for this round. The changing political climate might make it hard to get one soon. Too much fear, too many jack boots.
I just want a large platform style pistol that, when suppressed, gives you the "in the moment" quiet, nature awareness and weight savings of a bow, but with better power and precision on tap.
(Yes I know a good bowhunter can drop an elk with a broad head and get prefer shots, but all too often wounding happens. Something like this might be easier to get an ethical hit with, while being whisper quiet and serene in nature)
Wait for the pork chop or go ahead and get on the waitlist with an TBAC Ultra 7?
Are there any suppressors that would work with this? When will it be available? I want to build this AR already..
From what I seen on other videos it is the 338 suppressor
@@jzaden10 what you said. Anything .338 or larger
Hi Will, Thanks for reaching out and yes, there is! Any suppressor that is rated for .338 Lapua will work with 8.6 Creedmoor! Appreciate your time!
@@SilencerShop so the hybrid 46 will work correct ?
If they want to name it a funky name, they could nick name it the “Hachiroku” as a play on “Initial D” anime
Note to self buy a rifle in 8.6 blackout and rifle in 6mm arc
I wanna know where i can get that hoodie Kevin is wearing!?!?
Come to New Hampshire and get one 🇺🇸
@@stephanieandjared390 are they not available online? Curious about the certain brand this one is.
Barrel life ?
Will this thing be offered in a short bolt gun
Hello Mackenzie, Appreciate you working with us. Note: due to big tech “Community Guidelines” about “regulated goods” this should be considered for informational purposes only and there are no firearm sales/orders being taken for these items within this space. Thank you again for reaching out and we’d be glad to connect via phone if you’d like additional technical details.
10-4 I understand about military contracts and all that stuff and keeping stuff under wraps I appreciate it
Yeah boiii
This isn't the first time I've heard Brittingham say faster twist for more energy on target. I have yet to see any tests that prove this. Energy is a function of the bullet's velocity and its weight, not how fast it is spinning. Besides, we're talking subsonics, so at the "perfect" subsonic speed of 1050 FPS, a 1:7 twist spins the bullet at 108,000 RPM. At 1:5.5, which he uses on some of his stuff, is 137,454 RPM. Both of those rates are significantly less than any normal rifle rates. Heck, a 5.56 shooting 55 grainers at 3200 FPS is spinning the bullet over 280,000 RPM. Sorry, just not buying it.
He’s probably referring to its rotational KE, not tangential KE.
Not sure how much that actually impacts “damage” but it is true that a spinning body has more overall kinetic energy than one which is not spinning and is moving at the same velocity.
But yeah I agree. A lot of claims flying around that are somewhat hard to really be sure of.
It could be a matter of optimality? Like I know from when I was in school there’s all sorts of trade offs in the way all the different equations solve out and impact each other when it comes to tangentially spinning bodies (ones that spin with the spin vector pointing in the same direction they’re traveling aka bullets).
@@etheretherether The spin vector of a bullet is 90 degrees from direction of travel.
At subsonic speeds, the difference betwen 1:7 and 1:5.5 twists in not much, especially compared to super sonic speeds. It is possible to over spin a bullet and it either comes apart after exiting the barrel, or it negatively affects accuracy.
@@edwardlance2379 they are taking 1:3 ratio.
@@Joshcodes808 For the 8.6 Blackout, yes.
Q to make a 338 can? 👀👀👀 need yo start my wait so when the fix 8.6 comes out then it will be out
I guess the market isn’t there right now, but you would think they would want to come out with a can well before the round comes out.
They've released photos online of the prototypes, and on their podcast they showed the new muzzle device... a scaled up cherry bomb.
@@ravissary79 yeah after I posted I found a video about their “pork chop” can.
you created 300blk?
8.6 honey bagel
😂🏆
A round to solve a problem that didn't exist interesting.
Anyone make dies,?
I hope to see the day that 6.5 creedmoor is at $1 per round.
I just paid $525 for 500 rounds (plus shipping) of S&B 140gr 6.5CM. Hard to come by, but it's very slowly getting better.
Why did he get fired from federal?
I never worked at federal.
@@kevinbrittingham6774 heard it somewhere. I guess it was bs. Keep up the good work man.
Looks like I'm building another rifle.
Yikes, moderated comments section...? would be nice to see a 3rd party posting actual data and testing on this mystical round. But since they still haven't published what the loadings will be for it several years after the hype videos were first posted who knows(let alone have commercial ammo offerings). Maybe it's propelled by unicorns.
Hi Joseph, Appreciate you sharing that. Thanks for watching!
Hi Joseph, Appreciate you sharing. Thanks for watching.
Is it going to be 8.6 creedmoor or 8.6 blkout
I don't buy the claims made about the cartridge. There is no such thing as free lunch in physics. I find it very hard to believe that twist rate alone has much to do with kinetic energy. It's a very heavy bullet on top of a small powder charge, sent through a very short barrel. That 1:3 twist rate's real purpose is to stabilize a long and heavy subsonic bullet; the "rotational energy" is a marketing gimmick. I challenge anyone to prove that it significantly outperforms a full length .308 of the same bullet weight. 8.6 BLK is ballistically just a weak .338 federal..... whose parent case is-you guessed it, .308.
Minimum legal energy for Cape buffalo is 3970 FPE (5400 Joules). That is quite a stretch for this round at any yardage (if it will even produce that at the muzzle). I am all for ingenuity and innovation, but don't make false claims. This cartridge would be much cooler if there was more honesty about its intention. What I see is a cartridge for a short range hunting rifle, capable of game up to elk at 200 yards and closer, while not being too heavy or long with a suppressor. A very handy and quiet woods gun. Not a Safari Big 5 caliber, or a .308 killer.
Can you shoot 8.6 Blackout through a silencer design for 6.5 Creedmoor?
No . You will need a 338 or bigger can
Once
.338 can is required. Q is coming out with the “pork chop” can for this very purpose
8.6>6.5
9mm can will work with subs
Free the 🍯 🦡😉
Saying the word "Hornady" (who put health mandates on their employees) whilst wearing a "live free or die" hoodie... ironic.
yo KB, you can get a lot more done (and get the damn 8.6 to market) if you would wear real shoes, instead of loafing around in those
shower slippers........btw my $ are waiting patiently
Nah
$1 a round my ass more like $2-3
How about you (Q) stop banning people on IG who support you. Ya. Thanks.
No one blocked from our IG, woman.
@@kevinbrittingham6774 Dude. Kevin. You admitted to blocking ppl when the HB bullshit first dropped on the original account. Then you or IG nuked that account. You we're definitely purging people on the old account, no clue what you're doing on the new one.
@@aermotors so, you saying stop blocking people from an account that no longer exists? No one is blocked from the new account. But, will block people if they troll.
flip flops and pants need to be illegal.
Lol 300 whisper came way before the blackout I hope you don’t think you an innovator like JDJ.
pointless round
Hopefully nobody supports that. We don’t need it.
If you don't need it don't buy it simple. You shouldn't watch videos on things you don't need. Also, your not speaking for everyone.
Anonymous and stupid.