I think as a maker and I'm new to woodworking I researched my hardwoods and I feel there's certainly ethical reasons not to use certain species that can't be sustainable like many softwood species are . I like your channel, keep up the videos . Also I like your grandpa's radial arm saw , it's really something it's still going strong. Nice tribute to him .
I also make furniture for a living and have questioned this a lot myself. I don't think industrial woodworking is sustainable, be it veneered or solid wood furniture. For a small one man shop, I don't think the amount of wood used in the productive lifetime of that shop has any significant impact, it's a matter of scale. I think when discussing sustainability, scale is often overlooked but it really matters. When it comes to rosewoods, a Luther who makes 12 guitars a year isn't the same as a company like fender that produces tens of thousands of guitars a year. I don't know how much you consume yourself, but I would imagine it's negligible in terms of sustainability. Just my two cents
No, I love this and it’s an important point. The scale at which the production shop I worked for went through timber was astronomical compared to what I use as an individual furniture maker - and they were a rather small production shop. And as you say, this is the only project I’ve ever made with rosewood, in all the years I’ve been at it. I really appreciate your input!
It's my understanding that the percentage of forest land in the USA has remained at about 34% since approximately 1900. That figure does not include trees used in agriculture. Humans are learning to breed faster growing trees - compare the growth rings on timbers from the 1950's or so with today's timbers. I'm not saying that wood is in no danger of being unsustainable. Built anything from American chestnut lately? Only that collectively, wood remains and will remain a sustainable resource for a very long time. I personally believe that many products currently built of hard- or softwoods will be manufactured with bamboo, which can grow 3' A DAY. Yes, there will likely always be a demand for custom wooden furniture, but the mass-produced, "IKEA-ish" stuff will be produced from the cheapest source materials possible - which will include bamboo. Interesting discussion, although I don't think it will grow your channel.
I don’t have current figures on those numbers, sadly. I would hope that they’re staying constant. Well, the chestnut blight a century ago really ruined that. But it goes to show how long it really does take for trees to bounce back and mature before they’re ready for harvest. As much as I dislike bamboo - especially because it’s a grass! - I do hope it can start filling that larger, commercial sector
I think your over estimating how much wood is cut down today. Normally saw mills plant new trees as they cut for latter generations. Heat was the main reasons for logging so much back then. Now it's pine and white wood that we use the most. I'm just speaking for the US, and urban lumber is super common on the market today when in the past people only wanted old growth.
I might be. I hope I am, truth be told. I know many mills plant trees as they cut; my concern has always been the rate of tree growth compared to the rate of logging over that same period. I am trying to optimistic for future generations of woodworkers
I completely agree with you. I think that’s what the FSC wants to be. And as I say in the vid - they might be. I simply don’t know enough about them and their certification process. And enough has been in the news over the years about how certifications in different areas of our lives - “organic”, “free range”, etc - aren’t what they appear on the surface. Which is the only reason I have some skepticism around the FSC
Anthony, I will not be able to address all your points as I am a very poor typist. Sustainability, I know you are primarily talking about hardwood , rather than softwoods. I started woodworking in 1981, that's right I have been woodworking long enough to harvest trees I planted when I was your age. The demand for hardwoods and it's availability is reflected in the price. As a species becomes less available the price rises. Take Poplar for instance, I recently purchased a unit of Polar for less than pine, because Poplar has been planted as a farmed product. Walnut on the other hand has risen three fold in the last twenty years. Wood quality, I do not know where the company you worked for purchased their wood, but hardwood is sold by a grading standard and it sounds like the company you worked was try to cut their costs by buying cheaper grades as I can buy perfectly clear lumber of the woods you mentioned, it will just cost more than a cheaper grade. I have a deal with a local reforestation company to plant ten trees for ever thousand board feet I use. I purchase by lumber from a person that went into business in 1981 and I was one of his first customers. He buys from managed forests only, as anyone that is in this business should be a concerned about supply as the sale. We can't have one without the other. Harvey Firestone, yes the tire guy, planted rubber trees that he would not live long enough to see them usable, as well as Daniel K. Ludwig of Burlington Industries, he was still planting forests when he was 83. Anthony I was younger than you when I had these same concerns, but Ii can still buy wood to make things out of expect Oak, I do not purchase Oak as it is the only wood I do not like to work with. As one other commenter mentioned, videos like this are to deep in the weeds for most folks to be entertained by. I recently saw an item on Ebay for sale that I made in 1983, just poor your heart into what you love to do. The rest will sort itself out.
Where is the verification that a company is sustainable? As soon as you go for non-domestic, you have not guarantee. I've heard a story how New England was essentially stripped of all lumber for the sailing industry. Whether this is true or not, I don't know. I know that New England is vibrant with trees all over. You talk about white oak trees growing incredibly slow. The length of time for a tree to grow to maturity shouldn't matter. If we are not planting new trees each and every year, then yes there will be a point where trees no longer exist. Though people will never see that point. I believe that there is a point of no return with trees. Once you hit a certain level, human's will not be able to live here.
Well that’s just it - that’s what FSC was created to do - create standards of sustainability and then award certifications based on those criteria. I’m sure that part of that must be replanting trees, and harvesting at a lower rate than you’re planting. But as I say in the video, I don’t know enough about their certification requirements to comment in great detail on that system. And African woods are certainly a bit more of a gamble.
Just found your channel! Are you a woodworker or a chemist or both? It’s not wrong to use wood because we have more trees in the world today than ever before. The tree huggers are going to lie but it’s because they are pushing an agenda and not living in fact.
I think as a maker and I'm new to woodworking I researched my hardwoods and I feel there's certainly ethical reasons not to use certain species that can't be sustainable like many softwood species are . I like your channel, keep up the videos . Also I like your grandpa's radial arm saw , it's really something it's still going strong. Nice tribute to him .
Thank you! I really appreciate that. I’m glad you like what I’m doing :)
appreciate this conversation
I also make furniture for a living and have questioned this a lot myself.
I don't think industrial woodworking is sustainable, be it veneered or solid wood furniture. For a small one man shop, I don't think the amount of wood used in the productive lifetime of that shop has any significant impact, it's a matter of scale. I think when discussing sustainability, scale is often overlooked but it really matters.
When it comes to rosewoods, a Luther who makes 12 guitars a year isn't the same as a company like fender that produces tens of thousands of guitars a year.
I don't know how much you consume yourself, but I would imagine it's negligible in terms of sustainability. Just my two cents
No, I love this and it’s an important point. The scale at which the production shop I worked for went through timber was astronomical compared to what I use as an individual furniture maker - and they were a rather small production shop. And as you say, this is the only project I’ve ever made with rosewood, in all the years I’ve been at it.
I really appreciate your input!
It's my understanding that the percentage of forest land in the USA has remained at about 34% since approximately 1900. That figure does not include trees used in agriculture. Humans are learning to breed faster growing trees - compare the growth rings on timbers from the 1950's or so with today's timbers.
I'm not saying that wood is in no danger of being unsustainable. Built anything from American chestnut lately? Only that collectively, wood remains and will remain a sustainable resource for a very long time. I personally believe that many products currently built of hard- or softwoods will be manufactured with bamboo, which can grow 3' A DAY. Yes, there will likely always be a demand for custom wooden furniture, but the mass-produced, "IKEA-ish" stuff will be produced from the cheapest source materials possible - which will include bamboo.
Interesting discussion, although I don't think it will grow your channel.
I don’t have current figures on those numbers, sadly. I would hope that they’re staying constant.
Well, the chestnut blight a century ago really ruined that. But it goes to show how long it really does take for trees to bounce back and mature before they’re ready for harvest.
As much as I dislike bamboo - especially because it’s a grass! - I do hope it can start filling that larger, commercial sector
I think your over estimating how much wood is cut down today. Normally saw mills plant new trees as they cut for latter generations. Heat was the main reasons for logging so much back then. Now it's pine and white wood that we use the most. I'm just speaking for the US, and urban lumber is super common on the market today when in the past people only wanted old growth.
I might be. I hope I am, truth be told. I know many mills plant trees as they cut; my concern has always been the rate of tree growth compared to the rate of logging over that same period. I am trying to optimistic for future generations of woodworkers
If you look at the US, the amount of forest cover has increased over the last century. Other parts of the world it’s different…
@@matthewweand8137 I haven’t seen those numbers, but I would love to. Can you send me a source for that?
You should check out the Lumber Industry Update podcast if you haven’t. Its be Shannon from the Wood Talk podcast/renaissance woodworker.
I’ve not heard of it, but I will definitely check it out!
It would be nice if a group could get together to source and identify sustainable practices and companies that practice them!
I completely agree with you. I think that’s what the FSC wants to be. And as I say in the vid - they might be. I simply don’t know enough about them and their certification process. And enough has been in the news over the years about how certifications in different areas of our lives - “organic”, “free range”, etc - aren’t what they appear on the surface. Which is the only reason I have some skepticism around the FSC
Anthony, I will not be able to address all your points as I am a very poor typist. Sustainability, I know you are primarily talking about hardwood , rather than softwoods. I started woodworking in 1981, that's right I have been woodworking long enough to harvest trees I planted when I was your age. The demand for hardwoods and it's availability is reflected in the price. As a species becomes less available the price rises. Take Poplar for instance, I recently purchased a unit of Polar for less than pine, because Poplar has been planted as a farmed product. Walnut on the other hand has risen three fold in the last twenty years. Wood quality, I do not know where the company you worked for purchased their wood, but hardwood is sold by a grading standard and it sounds like the company you worked was try to cut their costs by buying cheaper grades as I can buy perfectly clear lumber of the woods you mentioned, it will just cost more than a cheaper grade. I have a deal with a local reforestation company to plant ten trees for ever thousand board feet I use. I purchase by lumber from a person that went into business in 1981 and I was one of his first customers. He buys from managed forests only, as anyone that is in this business should be a concerned about supply as the sale. We can't have one without the other. Harvey Firestone, yes the tire guy, planted rubber trees that he would not live long enough to see them usable, as well as Daniel K. Ludwig of Burlington Industries, he was still planting forests when he was 83. Anthony I was younger than you when I had these same concerns, but Ii can still buy wood to make things out of expect Oak, I do not purchase Oak as it is the only wood I do not like to work with. As one other commenter mentioned, videos like this are to deep in the weeds for most folks to be entertained by. I recently saw an item on Ebay for sale that I made in 1983, just poor your heart into what you love to do. The rest will sort itself out.
Grandads radio is not looking to bad now.. haa.. ;)
All that simulated wood 😂
Just because its irritating my Asperses, at 15:22 it is most commonly pronounced "Sy-Tees"
Where is the verification that a company is sustainable? As soon as you go for non-domestic, you have not guarantee. I've heard a story how New England was essentially stripped of all lumber for the sailing industry. Whether this is true or not, I don't know. I know that New England is vibrant with trees all over. You talk about white oak trees growing incredibly slow. The length of time for a tree to grow to maturity shouldn't matter. If we are not planting new trees each and every year, then yes there will be a point where trees no longer exist. Though people will never see that point. I believe that there is a point of no return with trees. Once you hit a certain level, human's will not be able to live here.
Well that’s just it - that’s what FSC was created to do - create standards of sustainability and then award certifications based on those criteria. I’m sure that part of that must be replanting trees, and harvesting at a lower rate than you’re planting. But as I say in the video, I don’t know enough about their certification requirements to comment in great detail on that system. And African woods are certainly a bit more of a gamble.
Don't worry about it... when the UN herds us all into the 15 minute cities (open air prisons) woodworking will be strictly prohibited.
'Promo sm' 😘
Just found your channel! Are you a woodworker or a chemist or both? It’s not wrong to use wood because we have more trees in the world today than ever before. The tree huggers are going to lie but it’s because they are pushing an agenda and not living in fact.