Jesus' Resurrection Physical or Spiritual? What Do our Earliest Texts Really Say?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 7 фев 2025
- Our earliest texts that report Jesus' resurrection are the gospel of Mark and the early letters of Paul, which report sightings of Jesus as a glorified spiritual body--not a revived physical body. It was only later that the idea of resurrection of Jesus' physical body began to take hold for apologetic reasons.
In this extended interview with Derek Lambert, host of RUclips @MythVisionPodcast , we explore this issue in depth. Expect some surprises. The image thumbnail imagines the appearances of Jesus in the Galilee, on a high mountain, to his disciples.. The ending of the recently discovered Gospel of Peter is also witness to the same idea.
For a full and detailed exposition of this view, mentioned in the program, you can go to jamestabor.com... to study more in depth.
If you have not yet signed up for my new on-line course "Quest for the Historical Paul," see this easy to remember link for more information: jamestabor.com....
___________________________
I invite you to join my Tabor Research Community for lots more, discussions, my responses to messages, a monthly Zoom meetings, and a fantastic and diverse group of historically oriented students of the Bible:
See details here:
Join Tabor Research Community: / jamesdtabor
On-line Courses:
“Quest for the Historical Paul”
jamestabor.com...
"Jesus & Dead Sea Scrolls”
jamestabor.com...
Creating Jesus: Gospel of Mark
jamestabor.com...
About Dr. James D. Tabor: jamestabor.com...
Join Tabor Research Community: / jamesdtabor
Tabor Books: jamestabor.com...
Academic Blog: jamestabor.com
Personal Blog: genesia.org
RUclips: / jamestaborvideos
Podcast: Spotify and Apple:
podcasters.spo...
podcasts.apple...
Facebook: / jamesdtabor
Academia:uncc.academia....
Instagram: / drjdtabor
X-Twitter: x.com/Jamesdtabor
LinkedIn:
/ james-tabor-12119324
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
❤ Dr. Heiser. I was so thankful for him when I was attending church!
❤❤
Kudos to Dr. Tabor and Derek for hosting this talk. As a side note, that is why I like Jehovah's Witnesses NWT translation (2013). Regardless of the fair amount of criticism they endure in other areas, they do not include either the short or the long conclusion in their latest NWT Bible edition. They believe that Mark should end as originally intended, without any additions. In previous editions, they have included at the end of Mark these conclusions as an addendum for informational purposes only, to inform the readers about the manuscript variants, but they no longer do so in their latest rendition of their Bible.
The NWT is not a scholarly translation, the translators are anonymous, and they demonstrate a clear bias in favor of the unique teachings of their religion. There are better translations available that provide a wealth of historical and manuscript information in addition to the translated text, whose translators are well known and can provide credentials in support of their work.
Excellent episode! Excellent conversation and so glad you still give lectures. I need to get on that zoom with you guys!!
Thank you for comparing and contrasting the verb tenses!
43 years, of teaching text original documents, going to real places in the bibical text, What an honor , this guy had interviewing you ! I do not know how to do interviews, yet i would love to interview you about the differences in translations !
Really loved your last comment on the message of Mark and how it differs from the common view of the Christian life.
Thank you Dr. Tabor.
If you believe in a physical resurrection like Lazarus that would not be a true resurrection it would be a reanimation. That to me is more akin to Frankenstein. It is unnatural and would scare the pants off of anyone. I wouldn’t suddenly want to see my long gone parents show up at my front door. I truly believe Resurrection is more akin for lack of a better work like a Phoenix arising out of the ashes . Renewed reborn and over coming and becoming something better.I believe resurrection can start in this life after the “ death of what is no longer working and can continue into eternity” all the for the good guided by love which always seeks the good of the other . Eventually reaching the beatific vision.
Excellent explanation! And the last few minutes especially are SO right on the mark. (no pun intended...)
Pre-resurrection Yeshua had a body of flesh and blood (Jn.6:55). And he was still able to walk on water and do other miraculous things!
Post-resurrection Yeshua said, "A ghost does not have flesh and bone..." not "flesh and blood" (Lk.24:39; I Cor.15:50).
Right, I don't believe a resurrected body was ever said to contain blood.
Love this conversation. Great episode, thanks to both men. I would even say both are godly men of sorts. ❤
Nothing Godly about rejecting what the Bible teaches.
@robusc4940 I suppose, to you maybe, but for me they answer so many questions I've had all my life. I got thru alot of childhood trauma with God's help, praying alot to Jesus, I always felt they answered me, I also felt a spiritual presence when I really needed them. I still do, and in spite of all that, these 2 have not erased any of that. I don't full on agree with everything they teach, but they give alot of food for thought.
To each his own.
@@lindabishop1402 The Bible is your guide, if any tries to steer you away from it then steer away from them :)
@robusc4940 nice, thank you for your sentiment, I will. 🥰
@lindabishop1402 There are two extremes, the first embraces and protects faith, falsehoods and all... the second rejects and distains faith, truth and all... it appears Linda that you have chosen the more difficult middle ground that involves studying the elements and structures of the faith inherited from past generations so as to be able to discern and cling to what is true while refining the faith by rejecting what proves to be false... yours is the best and most reasonable position, to my way of thinking!🙂
God's Word is found in Scrpture... but we are learning that not all Scripture is God's Word, and that is a critical advancement in our understanding of God's interactions with us. I have found that particularly, where there are unreconcilable conflicts causing confusion in the Scriptural texts, a close inspection in light of today's biblical scholarship will reveal that an anonymous author from a later time has added the contradictory material retroactively, in order to claim the covering of the authority of either the servant/prophet of Yahweh or Yahweh himself, for their fraudulent additions. If it is genuinely from Yahweh, there will be no deceit involved and all will be done and spoken in plain sight. I thank God for the work of historical critical biblical scholarship and all those who have dedicated their lives to it... their ministry to the truth is gradually setting us free from the mistakes of past generations... they are to be applauded for this service!
Fact is, we will never know for sure, so whats the point. Christianity has given the world astonishing art, music, literature and architecture. The words of the bible have given courage and comfort.
This is true, but if it proves to be a construct of man's mind and not of Yahweh, as good as it is, what could have happened with two thousand years of developement in the Sacred Way that Jesus actually preached...
Too much overhead and all religions encourage sloppy thinking.
I think Mark gives us a clue in chapter nine. At the transfiguration scene, we are told that Moses and Elijah “appeared.” Jesus then tells the disciples not to tell anyone about it “until the son of man has risen from the dead.” The disciples are perplexed and discuss among themselves what “rising from the dead means.” They just saw two people who had been dead for hundreds of years, talking with Jesus, then poof, they (Elijah and Moses) are gone!
The original version of the oldest gospel of Mark did not originally include any appearances of Jesus after the women visited the tomb on Easter morning. Mark originally ended at verse 16:8, with no appearances of the risen Jesus - merely a statement that the young man told the women that Jesus' body was gone and they fled in terror, telling no one.
@EvilXtianity no duh
i enjoyed hearing this position. my introduction to early resurrection belief was Farrell Till painstakingly arguing with apologists, over multiple exchanges, that paul didn't think jesus simply had his body reanimated in its original form. [these were the days when arguments were still thoughtful posts, exchanged over days or weeks, and i think we've lost a lot in both fleeting comment section exchanges, and unwieldy youtube conversations that don't fully drive their points home.]
in the meantime, i've seen scholars that i like insisting on physical resurrection in the early sources, and i always had the impression they were twisting the meaning of words in order to reach their preferred destination. paul is not completely clear how he viewed the raised jesus - possibly a bias in record preservation - but he's very clear that _something_ is categorically different with the raised body. this is a fascinating structuring of the available evidence
Flesh and blood pre-resurrection (Jn.6:55)
Flesh and bone post-resurrection (Lk.24:39; I Cor.15:50)
One thing that Dr. Tabor appears to not understand is that Judaism does believe in the recreation of the body at resurrection. They even have a midrash that explains about an indestructible bone in the neck that God uses to recreate the body from.
"In Jewish mythology, the luz (Hebrew: לוּז lūz) is a bone in the spinal column that houses the soul of the human body. In Hebrew, "luz" means almond, though in some editions of the Bible, it is translated as hazel. Jewish traditions teach that the luz is the bone from which the body will be rebuilt at the time of resurrection, and share the idea that this bone does not decay. " - Wikipedia
Also, the justification the Rabbis give for recreating the body is that the body deserves the reward of Olam Haba as much as the soul does and therefore the body must be brought back, just without the sinful nature.
Listened to Tabor a lot. Never had to take a note.
Now that fiber optics allow us to 'look inside the cocoon of a caterpillar, we can see that the caterpillar is deconstructed down to the o-chem level (amino acids), the amino acids are re-combined into BUTTERFLY which, then, BURSTS out of the cocoon fully formed but capable of things of which the caterpillar never dreamed!
Well said
@Stephanie, do I believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus? No, l most certainly don´t. If we have immortal souls, I don´t think that we need our mortal bodies. However, I have thought long and hard about what happens during the metamorphosis of insects. Btw, we shouldn´t just talk about caterpillars and butterflies, just because butterflies are considered to be beautiful, while caterpillarsdon´t have many fans ;) But let´s stick with the butterfly: is that beautiful creature still the same entity as the caterpillar or did the caterpillar die in the cocoon and the butterfly is a different entity? This question is very hard to answer. l believe that the caterpillar died, and the butterfly is a different animal. But the body of the dead caterpillar contained all necessary informations and materials, which made the formation of the new entity possible. This question is important for some animal-rights activists who try to figure out if the production of silk is compatible with their desire not to kill animals.
@@sabineb.5616 Caterpillar>Butterfly is a metaphor! Now I see through a glass, darkly, but then, face-to-face. I'll have ALL the answers after that! Patience!
@@sabineb.5616 PS: Logical thinking: Neighborhoods with more widow women have fewer songbirds. Don't make the mistake of looking for LOGIC. Embrace the REALITY of the MYSTERY.
@@stephanieashworth6317 , I know that you used metamorphosis as a metaphor - and it is a good one :) But I believe that our ability to use logic, is a valuable part of our human existence! We shouldn´t forget, though, that humans are not smart enough to figure out everything!
Hi James. Great stuff. Helpful as always. I'm wondering if you're aware of the ongoing discussion about Marcion and whether an emmerging early dating of Marcion's NT changes the 2 source theory. Matkus Vinzent, f.eks. has argued that the ressurection is NOT a concern in Marcion's gospel or versions of Paul, nor does it appear in the earliest church fathers like the 3-letter collection of Ignatius. I'd be very interested on your perspective on this.
Would this have any influence on your topic?
Fascinating
Very interesting, ty
47:18 "sits at the right hand of God...." That trope is creedal, but by what evidence? Who invented it?
It bothers me. It’s seeing God with some physical body sitting like a king on a throne. It’s such an anthropomorphic view of God. Unfortunately, I think too many people take it literally.
@davidkeller6156 it is a metaphor. Poetic license. That's OK. But what does it say? In contract law it is called "puffery" and has no legal importance. Nobody has knowledge of the office arrangements in Heaven.
The undead are messiahs of Satan, not those of God. They are an important part of the story, but I'd advise not worshipping characters like Vlad the Impaler or Spartacus, even if they pretend to be Russian Orthodox or drag-on queens these days.
Think of quantum physics - wave vs particle - which can pass through locked doors but then sit down and eat a piece of fish!
Research rainbow body Dale Allison
@@I_Fish_In_A_TIE Yep, own it, read it, marked it up a lot! Take a moment OR TWO, to CRITICALLY READ THE BIBLE - READ THE TEXT. It's why we can triangulate the actual location of the real Mt. Sinai! Read the text.
Shroud of Turin is real❤
agenda -- agenda -- agenda The truth has no agenda. "Do you think" prefaced to a question is a more appropriate assertion implying some sort of objectivity. It seems to me that I see as much inclination to "infallibility" as I see with fundamentalists. Equivocation is so useful in the world of objectivity. Proselytizing is not education.
Spiritual not physical. It simply was the new birth resurrection that went awry by blind guides scribes later editing the text. This is confirmed in Romans 1:4 and the epistles that clearly define the resurrection as the NEW BIRTH experience. Its plain as day. Just like the crucifixion was also spiritual just like we all must endure. Living sacrifices. Its all there for us to figure out by establishing the word of truth by 2 or 3 witnesses line upon line precept upon precept. The kingdom is like treasure HIDDEN in a field. Most have never found it. Thanks to edited texts, blind guides, and deception caused by false teachers, a false church system and much more.
Can a God Almighty be a Servant ???
Jesus' (and Mary's) mission was to reverse the disobedience that happened in the Garden. Since Adam (male and female) were created spiritually first (Genesis 1) and then physically (Adam and Eve) on the earth (Genesis 2), then the same process happens in reverse. First the physical body is made immortal (death is reversed) in the Earthly Eden, and then the enthronement at the ascension reverses the original fall in the heavenly Eden (Ezekiel 28).
We need to be careful not to take these things literally
@@Justin_Beaver564 True, but I would like the stories to make sense and add my own midrash.
Who trusts Paul? I don’t
Throwing out all the sources that don’t agree with you is no way to go about finding the truth.
Paul was an admitted liar (Romans 3:7) , I don't believe for a second that he saw the real Yeshua on the road to Damascus , especially when Yeshua said this :
Matthew 24:24-26 KJV
24)"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25)Behold, I have told you before.
26)Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not."
I'm not going to say that the "long ending" of Mark that we have now is original but there's actually enough evidence to suggest that at least something was there :
ruclips.net/p/PLt6BmToNiaSfQeMOXah7ovSpevUpLd7KS&si=wxhic7t2xIt16CCU
Luke wrote Acts, is Luke also a liar ?
2 Pet 3:15-16 is Peter also a liar ?
@robusc4940 technically , Acts wasn't written as inspired scripture , it was written as a defense brief for Paul's trial in Rome :
ruclips.net/p/PLt6BmToNiaSfvSSKBkcYTXmXX0I3Yoen0&si=H589oRDxtrzr9IG3
Luke wrote what was told to him , so simply recording what was told to him doesn't make him a liar . Actually , Luke makes Paul a liar in Luke 1:5-6 :
ruclips.net/p/PLt6BmToNiaScMuXeDxuM2Ui_d5DjzEcPE&si=XDQuJupzXWmoSBh2
Peter wasn't endorsing Paul , he was warning us about him . Dysnoetas was mistranslated on purpose as "hard to understand" but it really means nonsense , nonsensical , meaningless and/or destructive of good sense . To really understand what Peter was saying about Paul , you need to read 2nd Peter Chapter 2 first , then watch these :
ruclips.net/p/PLt6BmToNiaSfG1SKHBeXgZrIvhswPdS72&si=HCW48yY86bz6Hlyb
Paul never said he was lying, he said he was falsely accused of lying. When the premise is wrong the conclusion is suspect.
@@koreyoneal2623 The Creator of everything allowed His Bible to be so distorted by Acts & Paul so as to lead genuine believers to hell.
Is that your logic ?
@@hfranklin2009 Is your logic that the Creator of everything allowed His Bible to be so distorted by Acts & Paul so as to lead genuine believers to hell ?
"Our earliest texts", in the bible?
Too bad all this "evidence" of Jesus' resurrection, isn't in the historical records.
(The bible is not a historical record)
What is it then?
@@charlesbivens6757 It's just a book of fictional stories. A mythological anthology.
This Tabor guy takes way too long to answer a question.
you're new here
@@CH-kw8qw Actually I'm not. I was reading Ernest Martin's stuff back in the 80s.
@@xmoomy Dr. Tabor believes that Jesus was crucified on the Mount of Olives, just like Martin. (Secrets of Golgotha)
are you looking for a yes or no answer without any context?
Maybe but Tabor is one of the best so patience my dear.
Why go to the circus when can watch clowns here
I suggest that we avoid using the term "buried" when we are describing the post-mortem disposition of bodies, since to be "buried" -- currently means:
1. to put a dead body into [an excavated hole in] the ground which is then refilled with the excavated material, or similar;
"His father is buried in the cemetery on the hill."
2. "to put something into a hole in the ground and cover it."
An exception being "Burial at Sea" -- where neither excavation- or back-filling are required.