Michigan doesn't care about hunters they only care about $$ look at the state land they clear cut. Look at certain areas barely any deer but u can shoot what ever. Look at the crossbow rules so now bowhunters that are a special breed have to compete with gun hunters that only came to bow season cause of crossbows ruined my season and now there gonna ruin muzzle loading why even call it muzzle loader season mi is messed up
@@billmarsh2941so true I would love to see Michigan become a one buck state not forever but it definitely needs to happen for at least 3 years I haunt in mid-michigan I start my hunt on October 1st and I don't stop until haunt season's over and I maybe get one chance at a decent buck a year by chance I mean I see at least 1 big buck a year in a tree stand rather than that I have people walking app on top of me in really small dose I don't mind shooting those but I'm not going to waste a tag on a deer that my dog's bigger than I hunted private property for 3 years with the most 3 years I got 3 bucks that are a 130 inches now I haven't stayed land within the 5 to 6 years of hunted state land I've had one buck on camera that it's a 130 inches There are way too many hunters per property on state land which pushes all the deer on private
I am a hunter, I've lived in Michigan all my life, and I'm in my 50's. I used to shoot my share of deer, mostly does with an occasional buck each year. Do you want to know what changed? I'll tell you. Those controlling government have no idea what hunting is, have no idea how to manage it, see hunting as just another source of revenue, and don't want you to own guns anyway! 1) The decision to make SMALL GAME tags MANDATORY to purchase a DEER license! They saw our hunters as a source for taxation, a source of revenue, not that we the hunters, helped manage our resources. Money hungry politicians! 2) Substantial raise in the cost of licenses... INCLUDING DOE TAGS GOING FROM $5.00 each to $20.00 each. Again, just another source of revenue, not valuing the hunters. Money hungry politicians! 3) It used to be that when you shot a deer, you could go get it processed for $45.00-$50.00. What does it cost now? $85.00-$100.00 per deer. It's work and the processors earn it. I heard fellow employees at a major company where I worked say, "It costs so much to hunt and process deer nowadays, I'd rather just buy steaks from the grocery store for the same amount, and be done with it." I remember back in 1986, during firearm gun season, seeing a HERD of 40+ deer running in ONE big group, across farm ground in Zone 3. That''s when we started shooting does. We got the population under control. This new group of politicians running things should look back to see how they dealt with the deer population back then, with common sense regulations, instead of only seeing our hunters as a source of revenue for every pet project they have. The DNR should be controlled and run by common sense hunters, not bureaucrats. Common sense would tell you: 1) Lower tag prices for does. 2) Don't require a stupid SMALL GAME LICENSE for DEER HUNTING! 3) The costs are too high. Look for common sense ways to save hunters money, not charge them more. 4) When you're trying to get a new generation of hunters to start hunting, don't restrict youth hunts to does and no bucks. Common sense seems hard to come by these days! I appreciated your video. Thanks for your time.
I just turned 65 , seems like all the rules have changed so drastically , I believe your right !!!!! Getting harder every year to get out and enjoy the sport like we used to !!!!!
Jamie tomson mi rep doing a interview tonight on RUclips with 2a edu about some new gun control being pushed in Michigan she the repisentive for Taylor monroe
I'm in my mid fifties. Have been a hunter with my parents since age 10. The gun grabbing politicians in bed with the big insurance companies have destroyed a family tradition for many low income michiganders. The fees and forced licenses have increased at an insane rate. I can remember doe tags at 3 dollars each. 25 dollars for a complete license. With the insane increase in processing you are looking at 300.00 plus per animal. They are driving the hunters away at an alarming rate. I have been a meat hunter and never a trophy hunter my entire life. Feed the family first then go for the trophy. Make it affordable again and the hunters will return. I personally know at least a dozen hunters that have left the sport on costs alone. Why in the world force a small game tag when 90 percent of the hunters that are forced into these tags ever step foot in the woods for small game. I've hunted myself 40 plus years and have small game hunted twice. It's just not my thing. Taxation without representation.
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors and with GOOD REASON WE THINK THAT . At 38 i already had 24 yrs of experiance in when You Were Born as well as Paying Attention to our long standing political mess . Now add on another 27 years of experiance beyond that is 51 yrs of eyes wide open Not being gullible . You act like all us older guys are full of crap . Thats Stupidity itself . Youre a mocking bird for what they tell you . Good lord dude us older ones WERE THERE !!! WEVE DEALT WITH THIS DNR CRAP FOR DECADES !!! THERE IS NOWHERE NEAR THE NUMBER OR THE QUALITY DEER THERE USED TO BE ANYWHERE IN MICHIGAN . THATS A FACT !!! In 76 or 77 they released MANY BREEDING PAIRS OF COYOTES STATEWIDE TO RE-ESTABLISH THEIR NATURAL RANGE . EVERY FORM OF HUNTING HAS BEEN DECIMATED FROM THAT STUPIDITY TOO !!! OUR FORE-FATHERS WERENT DUMBASSES TO EXTERMINATE THEM . 2 yrs ago my buddys trail cam showed the yote bitch carry back 27 fawns in 1 week by his house . You can no longer find a pheasant or quail anywhere around there what was great hunting . Youve got Alot to Learn before you disrespect us older hunters and what we KNOW .
@@bobgyetvai9444 So do you believe the DNR and NRC holds all the keys or do us hunters have some responsibility for this? Ive been hunting since I was 12, ive saw some things as well in my day. I see more deer than I ever have while hunting, but they are mostly does, I see way less bucks.
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors i believe our deer have become Far More Cunning compared to elsewhere . In Missouri or Southern Iowa or Nebraska or Kansas the deer are Not Nearly as Wary . Many times they wont even run away !!!Those are all destination states . Its not the bird hunters that upset the deer . They KNOW when THEY are being pursued . The mature American Whitetail buck has Long Been Known to be the Hardest big game animal in the World to hunt . The only thing harder to hunt is man himself when PRESSURED . Fact !!! We have WAY TOO MUCH PRESSURE FOR WAY TOO LONG if its a rack youre after . The rut is the only exception but Decembers 2nd rut sees more bucks honestly . Everybody went home and the younger girls are sexy and stupid . FACT . It should Still be a muzzleloader only season . After that Then harvest doe primarily . Id much rather eat a doe than bucks . No Contest .
I'd thought this for awhile.... But! If they did then they would allow baiting more doe would get killed and IF cwd is a thing then they would win either way.. 🤷
I bought a place in zone 2, (Lake County) in 2017. Retired here in 2018. The first couple years I lived here I couldn’t drive my Polaris Ranger more than 2 miles down a two track and not see 2 to 5 five deer, and that was anytime I went out. Today I can drive 20 miles and see ZERO regardless of time of day. Michigan DNR is clueless on deer management. I hunted Nebraska for 6 years instead of Michigan before I moved to Zone 2 and did so much better than our state. I am 70 and really don’t want to drive 16 hours to hunt deer. APR restrictions should be state wide and these block permits farms put in for should be given to the youth hunters or open to the public!!! I can shoot unlimited does in my area where the deer population is WAY LESS than it was 7 years ago. You can’t fix STUPID!!
I think zone 2 needs to managed differently than zone 3. Let the doe tags be 10 in zone 3 but only 1 or 2 in zone 2. APR’s mandatory in zone 2 sorry your hunting has gotten worse…. I keep hearing these from a lot of guys up north…
#1-access,#2-to much activity in the woods before hunting begins,#3-early seasons,as we know,deer are not stupid ,and they start to turn nocturnal after seasons begin,#4 there is a lot of cover for them to hide and access comes in again!
I agree 1,000 % on access, also I agree on the activity in the woods these days, I run a lot of cameras and I usually put them up in Late July, the amount of people I see walking in really good spots in the woods 2 days before opening day is wild....
Deer do not go nocturnal, they learn your pattern and know when you are not there. If you start seeing deer only on cam at night then you need to move your stand cus they know when and where you are
I was an out-of-state Michigan hunter last year ironically. I think even though only 8% of people use their second buck tag it lowers the bar on what buck they will harvest with the first tag. This still leads to many young bucks getting taken, when they might have saved that buck tag and just taken a doe for meat instead.
Youth hunt change. I think is good. If the youth was to get a doe i think they would be more prone to want to get a buck and more wanting to hunt. Also the adult wont be able to take a earlie season buck saying it was the youth to cheat and take advantage of the earlie season youth hunt...
@EROCK1966 If we are going to have a youth hunt let them shoot a buck if they get a chance. They might see the biggest buck they will ever see and they can't shoot it? This is just too make jealous hunters that can't get a buck happy. Anyone can shoot a doe. I know this comment will be removed.
Good rant. Access in southeast MI is a problem. I’d like to see the DNR engage the county and local parks in Wayne and Washtenaw, at least for archery. I see banger bucks all the time in my Wayne county suburbia but drive an hour plus to rub elbows with every other public land hunter in southeast MI just to get goasted every weekend.
100,000 % agree!! Id love to get on some deer in Wayne County, there are hammers in Westland and Livonia!! Dnr needs to do more to get us some access!!
Absolutely correct.... The trail systems are crazy in the urban state game areas when it's 100 acres and theirs a 150 trails for walking or fat tire bikes... Trying to deer hunt in an area like that is a joke, and to the point totally not safe during gun season with warm fall temps and people just out for a walk or bike ride, but people forget that hunters are the ones that pay for the access/ maintenance with tags and equipment purchases for all to use, and we get the stinky end of the stick. All of this activity push deer to private and that adds to deer conflicts.
Lets consider this - According to the American Psychological Association, approximately 40-50% of first marriages end in divorce. The divorce rate for second marriages is even higher, with approximately 60-67% of second marriages ending in divorce. Would be interesting if you compare the divorce rate in those areas. We have less and less kids being raised by men. This is affecting it I am sure. The majority of women I am sure are not even teaching young men how to light a fire.
wow, another thing I haven't considered.... it seems like more women are getting into the sport these days but we need our men to keep our boys engaged!!
@@TheBlackrider85 You can google But the proportion of hunters who are female-10 percent in 2016 So 10% are female. Then we have 67% divorced. Numbers are getting lower. I am so happy for you but that is not the norm,
I believe access is the biggest problem. Hunting as a teenager I had a lot of private land to hunt. Now you just can't get permission. I scored a small lease and hunt some public now but there seems to be a lot more bowhunters now on public and that makes it more difficult. Takes the fun out of it sometimes.
What You're talking about is greed that builds in struggle over poor management. The Truth is the Hunter population has only increased about 14% in 60 years. That being said, They reintroduced wolves, let the Animal rights NGO's infiltrate the DNR, Turned crop damage into a cash cow for farmers instead of a quality management tool. Qualifying for crop damage tags should require public access. Why do the 1% land owners get free tags to hunt over crops in August without restriction, the same herd us public Hunting tax payers are paying to Hunt in October with no Baiting, no tax breaks, no free doe tags with purchase, no land management cooperation access!! But they take the Buck Hunting away from our Youth & Liberty Hunters!! 🤭🙄🤬
@@beez7753 most of that is more created by our NRC being the Walmart of Wildlife management, especially where deer licenses are concerned. Non resident should be preference point based, Antler less should be available starting when crop damage tag's are issued. I'm a Michigan tax payer why can farmers hunt crop damage in August but I can't hunt Doe's with my Bow in August for meat to feed my family?
I know a bunch of you are going to get mad but the biggest reason where losing hunters is its been made a rich man game lease hunting is the whole problem you have two or three guys paying some crazy amount to hunt that land say 100 acres so now youhave three guys trying to shot a trophy and not shooting anything where before lease hunting there was 10 people hunting that piece. I think if a farmer lease his land for hunting should not get any government ad for crop lose. I guarantee you that will that would up the hunter numbers. I live in southwest Michigan all the land leased up.
I don’t think it will make anyone mad cause I think a lot of us agree on this point. Access sucks in zone 3 in Michigan. Zone 3 has hardly any state land…. We really need to get some more HAP lands or hunter access programs.
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors hap lands are terrible spots !!! Worst ive ever seen for ANYTHING . This lease issue is indeed BS for the rich guys !!! I agree that Ag subbsidies should be cut if thats done . We poorer people have no other leverage to apply to this issue . People and times were never this way for YEARS . This lease idea has created a PIG !!! Highest bidder wins but - youre subsidised by the rest of us too bud . Better think about it farmer , sounds like a good idea to me . We always hear about damages done by stragers . Ive never caught hunters pulling that crap . BUT IVE CAUGHT SEVERAL LOCAL PUNKS SHOOTING UP TRACTORS AND EQUIPMENT RIGHT IN THE ACT !!! IVE MARCHED THEIR BUTTS TO THE FARMHOUSE TOO TO SQUEAL ON THEMSELVES . NEVER A THANK YOU FROM THAT FARMER WHEN HE KNEW THE KIDS . THATS BS TOO .
@personalprojectile dude, me and my uncles have talked about the car insurance thing for decades lol. It's a very common conversation.Come to your season when we used to hunt up north and not see anything hahaha.
Just wanted to add my thoughts as a hunter getting back into the scene for the first time in 7 years. I live in Sturgis. There is ZERO public access near me. The absolute closest is approximately 100 acres and the next closest is 30 minutes with minimal acreage as well. So, I bought an Indiana bundle tag so I can hunt the Pigeon River public hunting area. I can harvest two does and a buck. Through my scouting of that piece of public, I've observed several bachelor groups of very nice bucks and I wholeheartedly believe Michigan needs to implement a one buck a year rule. Maybe an "earn a buck" incentive similar to Indiana as well. Your point of using the zones properly is good as well. That, and the DMUs. You have em, use em. It's a wasted resource to not maintain those. And I believe the rest is a culture issue. Nobody cares if so and so is out there schwacking does left and right. The population needs it. The state needs more hunters out in the woods. It'll be a dying sport before we know it.
I hope we never go to a earn a buck system. I'm really on the APR wagon and have been for 15 years. We just need a 4 year span of having APR's of 8 and above. just enough to give us a buffer zone of more mature bucks.
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors Because there is ALOT OF MONEY being spent to go deer hunting,and the youth hunt starts before the regular season,and these kids are allowed to go shoot the biggest bucks because it's easy to bring the Big bucks in at that time of the year with know pressure at all!!!! I was 12 when I started hunting,in 1978,and you worked to just get a deer!! If they want kids at 8 and up to shoot either buck or doe,give them a week at the end of December, but not a couple weeks BEFORE ANYONE ELSE CAN HUNT,SHOOTING BOON AND CROCKET BUCK EVERY YEAR,JUST NOT RIGHT,TO EASY FOR KIDS ,HAVE THEM LEARN THE RIGHT WAY,go scout learn there habits,alot of people with kids,even my own 2 boys,learned the right way,NOT GIVING THEM 8'S,10'S,AND 12 POINTS,JUST WRONG!!! GLAD ITS COMING TO AN END!!
Yeah makes sense to me, learn from trial and error and not just having instant success! Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I appreciate it! Good luck this season !
Makes no sense really. Isn't there a doe only weekend right after the youth hunt. I believe this will drastically decrease participation in the youth hunt. Personally, I have 2 kids have done youth hunt about 5 years now. Have never harvested a deer. Either decent buck not presented shot and kids chose not to shoot a spike, weather, not fun a few times chose not to go out, 80+ degrees in a tree in the woods, My kids like to hunt so they come with me during the regular seasons so not pressed for early season deer. Why take kids out for a doe when they are so many opportunities to do so during regular season
I'm from Ohio and wouldn't want any more then one buck a person. It just works. If Michigan wants to keep 2 buck tags it needs to at least go to some form of earn a buck. Will save alot of your 2 year Olds for sure.
@MichiganGreatOutdoors Aweosme videos man. And people would have to adapt to the mind frame of killing some does for the freezer and be a bit more picky on their buck. Either way hunting in Michigan is a BLAST and enjoy the trip every year. Already got my tags in the mail for this year lol. Keep the videos coming.
@MichiganGreatOutdoors A buddy from my way brought up two years ago for rifle season. Shot a 100" 8pt the first year, he shot a pretty nice 6pt and I been hooked ever since. Nice hunting some different terrain🤟
I've been hunting MI since I was 13 in 2000. I was very fortunate to gain access to a beautiful piece of 40 acres in Ionia county in 2019. In the last 5 seasons I have worked hard to do my part and have harvested 16 does and 8 bucks which is certainly higher than the state average of doe:buck harvest ratios. So, I do feel the new doe seasons/lower tag cost is in the right direction to increase doe harvest numbers. But, I don't really agree with the new regulation to limit what new hunters can harvest. I'd like to think when I believe my son is mature enough to harvest a deer for the first time; that he would have the same opportunities that I had when I was first starting out and harvest whatever gets him excited as that's what it's all about. (You said you yourself shot anything you could when you were younger, as did I) I just don't really agree with limiting the opportunity to first-time hunters starting out because of a problem our and previous generations have created. Might as well just lose the youth hunt at this point, since I'd rather him wait and hunt with me in October/November to have more opportunities to harvest what makes him happy; and restricting him into only being happy to shoot does isn't fair, as that wasn't what we were excited about when we were first starting out either. We wanted a chance at ANY deer that got us excited and made us happy.
Thats awesome you have had success in your area doing your own management, I think people believe its some mystical thing that we can all achieve together and the truth of the matter its not, we CAN all help get that buck doe ratio closer to 50/50 and our hunting will drastically improve... I also think its crappy the NRC and DNR allowed youth season to be doe only, with my luck that giant 10 ive been after for 3 years will walk out in front of my son this youth season and will only be able to film it.... Also taking away from the veterans is just down right disgusting to me... they should be able to shoot bucks
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors agree 1000% Always seems to be 1 step forward and 10 steps back at the same time with our NRC. I really think MI needs a hunter-funded lobby group that can start affecting change politically at the state level with the Governor. It doesn’t seem like anything will ever change until a new NRC is established that will actually listen to what DNR has been informing them for years.
I found your channel by accident. When I saw the topic concerning deer hunting changes I had to check it out. You did an awesome job going through everything. I am 68 years old and have hunted fished and camped Michigan longer than I can remember. I hunted public land until the last few years. M y son purchased a small farm which has some good numbers of deer. Does mostly. All deer hunters need to more does. We have charity organizations that can distribute version to the hungry. I appreciate your time and help and for this video. Please do more. I agree that data needs to be collected so we can make intelligent decisions for the future. There's no reason Michigan is not a destination state. Let's follow the data. Look at Ohio. We are not that much different. Keep your channel going for the future of our hunting. Thank you, Tim
Tim! thanks for the thoughtful response, the reactions to this video have been incredible to be able to learn so much from everyone else!! good luck to you this season!
THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME.. GREAT INFORMATIVE VIDEO!!!! BE BLESSED BROTHER !! Looks like my hunting fund is going up More does for me too . But I've always tookin a doe for the freezer every year.. Try to never leave a tag unused...
Absolutely! I truly believe we gotta harvest more does, if we can get that buck doe ratio closer to 50/50 I think its going to tremendously help our hunting experience! Bucks will have to chase and find does again!!
In my area (West and Central), many processors went out of business during and after Covid-19. Prices were driven much higher, and it costs over $100 to process each deer. That $5 tag is a lot more expensive.
I'm 64 years old, been hunting since 1986 both public and private land, private the last 26 years. You are right on about managing zones properly! In zone 2 we don't need the neighbors shooting 10 does each! We are restricted to 3 points on one side, I'd move it to 4 on one side, that would grow bigger bucks. Also Allow hunters to use doe tags down state. Especially zone 3 allow baiting where it's hard to get hunting access, also it would be easier for younger guys with less money to hunt closer to home and have a decent shot at seeing and killing a deer, at least seeing a few deer every hunt is enjoyable even if you don't get a shot at one! It's about the experience and knowing at least you have a chance at getting one rather than just staring at trees for days on end. I've been on both sides, hunting public land when I was younger and owning my own hunting property. I was fortunate enough to be able to buy hunting land when I was a little more established, for that very reason public land was difficult to hunt because of the pressure. I can't imagine trying to hunt without food plots, or baiting on public land! Also the state should open metro parks to hunting instead of hiring sharp shooters to cull the deer! The nonsense with the metro parks is exactly why people don't trust the government! Its common sense!!
This is probably one of the best responses ive heard in these comments. I agree with all of what you said, it is common sense, It is about the experience!! If you hunt for a whole season and don’t see a deer your probably not going to come and hunt next season! If its not exciting, why would you want to hunt again? I remember the days when I was younger, and bucks would fight over does and you could use rattling antlers to call deer in. I’ve rattled for the last 4 years and bucks don’t ever bother looking at you anymore. The buck doe ratio is so out of whack them bucks know they don’t have to fight for a doe… There are more does than they can all breed!! Access in zone 3 where most of the deer are totally sucks. You just can’t gain access to hunt on private unless you have big bucks for a lease.
Great video. I used to travel Michigan to hunt. I had great hunting spots around Atlanta and Hubbard lake area. Too much money to travel and i wont get into the horrible Atlanta state land tick problem. I haven't traveled in 4 years because of inflation. I live in Livingston County and pretty much just hunt on our property. I now have 2 jobs and have very little time to do to inflation. I do not have time to process deer myself, and processors have gone up tremendously. So, if I harvest a deer, it has to be a mature deer. Having that said, I haven't seen a mature deer in 2 years. Possibly because other hunters are thinking the same thing. Expensive processing, so you better make it worth the cost and harvest only the mature. If you can find one. The only thing keeping me hunting is the fact i have two boys im trying to raise right. If you read this, thanks for listening
Man, this hits home hard, inflation is killing most of us these days, its been tuff for us. Fortunately I was able to upgrade my employment recently for an increase in salary, I’m not really sure what my plan is going to be for deer season on the deer processing. Processing fees are out of control and I can’t imagine how much they are going to be this year. I don’t mind cutting them up myself but I don’t have the time in deer season to do it because I just want to hunt!! Keep raising them boys the right way man!! Thanks for watching!
100% agree. From talking to lot of people the big issue is a lot of hunters only want to shoot 1-2 deer a year but they have tons of acres to hunt so only taking 2 deer off does nothing for the land. A lot of people just don’t want to deal with taking care of a doe after the shot. I think dnr should put up donations centers, I guarantee the doe harvest will go up and if they do some kind of discount for every deer that’s donated people would be more inclined to shoot doe’s. I live in Kalamazoo so hard to get private land access, over crowded stateland and tons of deer is what I’m used to. Love the video
Unfortunately, I don’t see this getting any better and I see it getting worse. So allowing donations might be the way to go… Id hate to see it if it continues to get worse….
I think the youth hunt change is great , it might stop the greedy Dads (you know who you are) from using their kid to get first crack at that big buck .
A County in zone 2 is were my hunting property is, when we started the antler restrictions there we didn't like it, but after the 5th year we loved it, so many buck running around, we see 6s and 8s on a daily basis and 10s and up we hold out for, best thing they done for good bucks, everyone should be on board with the antler restrictions. It work!
They 100% work and should be done statewide IMO That sounds great but harvest numbers are down across the state, If we have low harvest numbers in the state this season again. I don’t think the NRC or DNR is going to change any rules that could potentially limit harvest or reduce tags sales, remember the bring in revenue from those tag sales… they want more deer taken, specially in zone 3
I bought a combo last year for the first time because that second tag can be used on an anterless deer. Accidentally harvested a year old buck December 5 that had already shed its antlers. Was a weird year.
Great Video- I appreciate your research and comparative #s to Ohio. I hunt private, Zone 3. Last year was a strange year- seemed to be a very late rut. I have never seen so many small fawns in the woods. I had to really size them up to make sure I wasn't paying $100 to process a 50lb deer. The does were really savvy; and I only got to harvest a small 7 point. Your right, with so many different seasons being added, I need to get out of MY rut and try new areas.
Good stuff Last year I didn’t really even see a rut… I think its because there is more does to bucks in my area and it seems like the bucks really don’t have to rut that hard to get on does anymore. Back in the day it was like the bucks would really be seeking and searching for does. Now there isn’t much buck movement at all in the woods im hunting in daylight, at night then you see tons of them coming in to find the does… any maybe part of that is just hunting pressure…
I’m a zone 2 solely public land hunter and have been my entire life, I choose to follow the laws and only baited when it was legal to do so, yes I saw more deer baiting but now not baiting I feel I’m becoming a much better woodsman and learning more about where deer actually are. I think too many people are overly worried about shooting a “trophy buck” so they blame lack of seeing trophy bucks on anything other than themselves putting in even just a little more effort.
A lot of hunters spend more time in the woods dragging in bags of bait than actually scouting and learning. Then when the season opens they become “security guards” of the bait pile hoping a deer will come to it, that’s lazy and silly.
@@Jake-Goodwin96 true and good. I'm a mobile state land hunter so I see your point. But my point is that it is not the governments responsibility to tell me I can not place a bag of apples in the woods. Partly because it is harmless and perhaps beneficial but firstly because it is unenforceable resulting in undermining the law abiding citizen
Hey Polak, I agree with you on so many things. I live in Whitmore lake so I’m in your area and there’s such little state land it’s hard to get opportunities on does let alone a buck. I’ve sent letters and door knocked every year and never got a yes, yet everyone is upset with car insurance prices and car accidents on 23 lol. I also and so disappointed the earn a buck or 1 buck was shut down. I kinda hold myself to earn a buck and won’t shoot a buck until I put a doe down. The muzzleloader thing is stupid as well. I’m a bow hunter first and hate sharing the woods w muzzleloaders it’s just unsafe down here. Lastly I’m disappointed in no bait. No one will ever tell me bait spreads…anything. Any woodsman knows deer lick each other constantly. I think hunter numbers drop off dramatically after the bait ban. The average weekend/rifle hunter can’t use bait and doesn’t have time to scout like some of us so they say hell w it. I don’t see anything wrong with a little corn or something but the dnr is so narrow minded is ridiculous. Great video bud! Hoping to put a hand full of does down so to donate to some needy families I know, good luck this fall bud.
Yeah up in that area is tuff, Ive tried several of the state lands over there in Oakland county in the extented archery season and its just down right tuff to get on deer that late into season. I would have liked to see a 1 buck state as well but the NRC wont do it because of 2 reasons, 1 they believe it will cause less deer to be taken overall and # 2 and probably the most important is they will see a reduction in tag purchases which will hurt the funding... If you really look at whats going on, its all about money in my opinion, the whole world revolves around money....
This was a very well articulated video!! I really enjoyed all of the input. I hunt in zone 2 on the north west side of the state. It is really hard to get anyone to shoot any does, which is a difficult watch. I totally agree with your mentality there!!
Very good Video!! You're absolutely right. Our two major issues are the need to harvest more does and the lack of private property access is the second huge issue. Finding a good private owned property for deer hunting is very difficult as you stated. There needs to be more effort by the DNR to expand access to private lands through their HAP program. Maybe they need to increase the incentives for private property owners. I live near lots of private farms and have had great difficulty obtaining access for deer hunting. I see deer within a couple hundred feet of my home and there are many causing accidents. I will continue to hunt on state land which I do have quite close to me but farmers should be taking advantage of hunters who are willing to take does to reduce their crop damage. Thanks for your report!
What im seeing is a farmer might have 200 acres and cousin Johnny wants to hunt it, so being family of course he gets first dibs, well cousin johnny wants to shoot big bucks and doesn’t want anyone else hunting the land cause he’s family and should get dibs first. So johnny tells Uncle Willy hey I want to hunt the farm exclusively and willy says I don’t care and then Johnny is the only one hunting and doesn’t shoot the does cause he wants the bucks to come into the property for the does and he also doesn’t wanna stink up the property chasing down does he shot so then it becomes a doe safe haven and an almost protected property, cousing Johhny shoots his wall hangar buck and maybe a doe in gun season to get his meat and hes happy. The land owner doesn’t care about crop damage from the deer because hes not the farmer in most cases, most of the time he is leasing the property. Not all cases but a lot I think. Thanks for watching and your thoughtful response!!
I’ve long thought we (hunters and the hunting industry) need to come up with some way that makes people excited to hunt does. Like how everyone loves big antlers, something like this for does. If people get excited about shooting does I think the imbalance will balance out pretty quick. We have these same discussions in Ohio too. Not an idiot at all!! You’re spot on for many states in the country IMO. Appreciate you bringing up the subject. More hunters (and non hunters) need to hear it.
Yeah, that would be a tremendous thing to be able to create some excitement somehow, I get excited for Chili and venny tacos!! I think if we can teach the younger generation more about proper management and conservation it should have a lasting impact!
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors yeah buddy! That’s good stuff. Yeah totally agree with teaching the kids the value of conservation and all that. I’m working on mine constantly.
I totally agree with the population of deer in zone 3 it has really ramped up! I live in Southfield in Oakland county and I seen 4 8 pointer’s and 4 doe in my neighbors front yard Wednesday night , they are all over the place! 10 years ago you never seen them around like this!
Pressure is the problem you have,today. To many gimmick hunters. This guy is right the big bucks become nocturnal or very difficult to hunt. I am 60 years old and have many wall hangers. The secret is change your tactics and hunting locations and don't over hunt. By the 1st of Nov I have so many nice deer on my property because I stay out in oct. PRESSURE!! Goodluck out there.
Its my dream to have a piece of land to manage, that’s very smart that you stay out and wait until your property stacks up… Very smart. I don’t know if Michigan will ever be as good as Indiana, ohio or Kentucky if we keep going on this path!!
This is the best video I have seen on the new regs. You nailed the issues. No access in Zone 3, why have zone if they are not going to be used, and APR-improve the quality of bucks. I mainly hunt in Zone 2 in an APR county. APR has increased the age class of bucks. Thanks for the video and thoughtful analysis.
Mich has that you can purchase up to 10 doe licenses and you can use your buck tags for doe's, early and late season's used to be on private land only 👍 for adding public land
The one problem is the fact that you have to pay $185.00+ For processing per deer harvested I Take mine to KAS in south lyon they debone all of your meat and you get to pick 5 varietys of their sausage's , you have to set up a deer drop off time and day on their site ,They Are The Best Processor in all of the southern mich
Excellent video thank you so much for the information. I agree with almost everything you said. I do believe the car insurance lobbyists are working hard to adjust the harvest to their needs. The zone ideas you put forth are spot on. I have hunted in all three zones most of my life and can tell you that I see more deer in zone 3 than either of the other two zones together. While I'm fortunate that I have private property to hunt in zone 3, I also see many deer on public land. As far as hunting opportunities and the number of hunters on public land in zone 3, again you are correct. I noticed this about 5 years ago. There was a cloud of hunters, especially during bow season, on the public land in our area (Livingston County). Thanks again, look forward to the next video
Thanks, I appreciate the comments, yeah in my areas the public lands get absolutely hammered in bow season. It seems like by gun season it really tapers off and come December there isn’t hardly any hunters out.
I live in Monroe county zone 3. I grew up hunting here and had a ton of spots to hunt. I moved back here about 10 years ago and now I can't get one spot to hunt. This area is locked down and only those lucky enough to have private land can hunt. There needs to be more public access to land. The DNR needs a program to incentivize these farmers to allow people to hunt. The farmers are complaining that there crops are being destroyed and the insurance claims are up in zone 3.
Hi man love the content love what you said I have recently been lucky enough to find a big patch of land that I got permission to hunt and I have managed the property for a while and now have a state record white tail deer
@owenpiper5857 That's super cool man.Happy you.I wish I could find something like that.... I've been on public landm, my whole life, and it's real tough....
I am glad they didn't do the statewide apr. Zone 1 is a different world compared to Zone 2 or 3. Earn a buck wouldn't work up here in zone 1. We are not even allowed to hunt does in my dmu. Since 2012 I believe. We have huge winter die offs up here due to the longer and more severe winters up along lake Superior. We can lose 20% of our herd in 1 bad winter due to weather and predators. I usually try to shoot an 8 or better but with our messed up ratios of deer and lack of a herd and age classes much of the time it is hard to do. I hunt mainly for meat not antlers although they are a nice bonus. I grew up and hunted in zone 3 and have lived and hunted in zone 2 and now for the last 20 years hunt in the keweenaw Peninsula which is surrounded by Lake Superior.
Yeah… It’s a whole different beast up in the U.P! that’s really why I didn’t want to talk about it too much as I don’t have any real experience there and I don’t think Id add much value talking about it. I tend to only speak on things I have some experience with. I would like to see the wolve population managed up thee for u guys. It sounds like a mess with the wolves…
I'm 66yrs old. I've hunted deer since I was 14. I only hunt near my home in zone 2. I would be more likely to harvest a doe if I was seeing 10-15 or more deer a day like I did as a kid. It was nothing to see 75+ deer hunting 5-10 days of the season. I'm a much better hunter now than I was at 14, but now I'm lucky to see 15 deer in those same 5-10 days. Even when baiting was allowed, I never saw over 5-10 deer in a 3 day hunt near my home in Cheboygan County.
Polack - Excellent Video - Thank you for your Speculative Portion too- Gets the hunters thinking. You have a new subscriber! We harvested 4 doe & 2 Bucks (4+ one side/both bucks) in the 2023 season. The 1st Doe was my 11 y/o grandson's 1 deer ! We are Very fortunate to have several private properties to hunt in zone 3 (Pinckney/Howell/Whitmore Lk areas). We Need the Doe population in Zone #3 to be brought under control - THIS would be My Suggestion on How to do that Very Quickly... Harvest a Doe to Earn a Buck Tag. You want to see Early Antlerless and Youth seasons become popular? Try That way of earning a Buck Tag for 2 seasons!! I believe You are correct - We have the state divided into zones, Lets Use Them - The State should manage the zones individually. If we were a one buck state - we would have harvested 5 doe and one buck. Venison Is Great.
I think a Combo tag 1 buck 1 doe, you shoot a doe you earn a second buck tag would be perfect. I think u have to check your doe into the dnr so its legit and then u can get a second buck tag. Why don’t they just try it and see if it works?
I hunt Livingston County for the last 15 years that sucks on muzzleloader, but I carry my muzzleloader during gun season thank you for breaking this down for us
I haven’t participated in a deer hunt in a long time unfortunately. I enjoyed time in the field with family hunting in zone 2. When I started in the mid eighties you had to apply for a doe tag and if you won one in the lottery you were thrilled, so basically you could only hunt for a buck. That is, in my opinion, part of the reasoning behind what you refer to as the older mindset. I think having access to more doe tags is definitely a wonderful opportunity and I do look forward to getting back out into the woods.
Yeah that’s a really good point, I didn’t mean the older mentality was a bad thing, I was just hopng to push people that we must all continue to evolve to deal with challenges, if we really have 2 millon deer than we probably need to do a better job harvesting some does. Good luck this season im glad that you are getting back out there!
I have hunted Michigan since 1981. I hunted zones 1,2 and 3. Here are the issues. 1. Many hunters care more about antlers than the meat and time with friends. 2. Rifle hunters hunt 3 days and go home not returning until the next year. Muzzleloader should be a week in October. Combo tags should be 2 either sex tags and an antlerless tag (3). Many hunters won’t hunt if they can’t bait.
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors if it loads from the front its a muzzleloader PERIOD !!! Dont even start this sidelock vs inline bs !!! Michigans propellant laws need changeing too . The 40 cal was a good move .
I'm a boomer that harvest does. But you are correct. There are a lot of hunters my age that will not shoot a doe. It was pushed into their heads from their dads.
@MichiganGreatOutdoors no disrespect taken. I totally agree with you. Back in the 50's and 60's around where I live in Central Michigan, the hurd was quite small, so we grew up wanting to preserve the doe. So the hurd would grow. That's no longer the problem.
Watched your video to the end and found it interesting that you were advocating taking antler less deer and then when you were talking about the early antler less deer season you mentioned going to another area knowing you would affect that hunting area and not your own area…..anyway you made a good video making valid points…….good job
Yeah, Well what I really meant to say was that I would not hunt my best big buck spots, I might go across the street or down the road or something. Probably do some scouting and find a good bean field to sit or something where a lot of does are coming out. I just meant to say Im not going to hunt my best spots to booger them up for opening day of bow.
Nice job. Refreshing to have someone not talk about something they are not super familiar with. And skyrocketing is correct. It is crazy out here in the cornfields.
Thank you for stating this should be looked at as 3 separate zones. Zone 3 has no shortage of deer or big deer. We could have 2 buck unlimited does leave you 4 on a side second tag and still not put a dent in the heard. NRC states if we went 1 buck the deer population would jump 30-35 K a year. In 5 years that would be larger then Indians whole deer heard. NO ONE is stopping ppl form looking for access in zone 3. We also have the most car deer and crop damage problem. If the seekone guys can come from out of state to hunt and find access it just means we would rather bitch and complain then get private access. 4 parcels 2 acre, 15 all horse pasture, and 2 40 parcels with some age. 8 deer and my buddy 8 deer 3 bucks total harvest and passed many more we did not take enough. We have 30 deer sits from October 1 to January 1. Is that everywhere no but the DNR one buck and APRS aren’t for a whole state and should not be looked at that way. If the DNR want to get off their fish money and lease ground from large farming operations and pay for the bad apples that f-up things for good hunters on HAP. Then that should be looked into. Especially the ground bought by China backed ag groups with billgates. Bought thousands of acres in southern Michigan open that shit up but we will have to police it and keep other bad apples in line or it would be gone in a flash. I live in a large co-op area and have seen giants well befor QAD was a thing around here. Still comes down blakent restrictions are a bad idea! Period!!!!!
Yeah id be for having much different rules down here, access is still a problem... Im sorry but you wont change my thinking on this, I ask around 20 farms per year for access and its always a hard no. I think seek one is leasing these property's and not telling us. They make a lot of money, paying a land owner 10 grand for a season is nothing to them. I have a buddy who went all in last season and asked for permission on over 100 land oweners and not one said yes. they all wanted that leaase money. which is fine it is there land.
Bro you hit the nail on the head. I jumped on the lease game this year and it’s the best opportunity I’ve ever had in my entire life. Public is absolute garbage for deer hunting.
Thanks for this video. I’m newer to hunting…wasn’t raised with it. I turned hiking into hunting. I prescribe to mobile hunting and putting in the time pre and post season. I’m in zone 3 and have walked most of the state land within 1.5 hours of where I live and have hunted I. A few places zone 2. I agree with your point of view. There’s so many hunters on public. It’s tough to find a little gem that is worth putting time into. Tagging does is what keeps me going. It keeps meat in my freezer. Seeing a pope n young buck in MI seems to be a dream. 2 mil deer is a stretch but we def have a huge urban/suburban population. I’ve seen plenty of 12-14 pt bucks in farmington hills. Dreamland buck quality in MI could be attainable and hunters should have more say and play in how the DNR manages. Deer control and hunting restrictions should be regulated by county groups bc populations vary so widely. But how much control do we want to hand over to the Govt? Maybe we should have county regs that help voice the opinion of hunters for the area they reside and typically hunt…
Its nice to see your journey from hiking to hunting and now managing some doe populations!! I can assure you that if you keep learning and grinding you will see some P Y bucks in michigan public, they are here just hard to get on. Lots of mega giants in farmingron and Livonia just goes to show you that Michigan can produce some giant bucks, we need some politc free management by the NRC and DNR, you can see from the comments in this video that there are lots of different opinions on this matter.
I would like to see michigan go to a 1 buck tag 2 doe tag combo for 40 bucks. No point restrictions. If a guy or girl wants to shot a 4 point have at it we all have to start somewhere. I think alot of people just shot there first buck to get a buck knowing they have 2 buck tags
8% of 500,000 hunters is still another 40,000 bucks. If we want more mature bucks I would think it would help to keep those 40,000 bucks per year alive. I really appreciate all the info.
I enjoyed your commentary and agree with a lot of what you said. A good view on why they decided to make the Liberty hunt antlerless only. I hunt both zones two and three and have seen the increase in antlerless tags in zone two the last several years when there was not the antlerless deer numbers to support that. You do not see a lot of deer in many areas there and hunters were shooting does then complaining of not seeing deer the next year. The DNR only gives the rope, the hunters got to be smarter and not hang themselves. One thing I don't like is the any legal firearm during muzzleloader. I asked a DNR CO about that and he said it's about opportunity. I thought get a muzzleloader then if they want opportunity. That said, I think a good compromise is you can use any legal firearm, but can only shoot bucks in the muzzleloader with an actual muzzleloader.
Yeah, these blanket regulations for the whole state just don’t work… I know a guy who lives up in northern Michigan he shoots every deer he can every year cause he needs to fill his freezer, they changed the rule to 10 doe tags up in zone 2 a few years ago and he filled every tag, now hes complaining he aint seeing any deer. Its laughable, like what did you think was going to happen when you live in a very low deer density area. The deer have to be managed differently in certain areas.
I agree with most of the comments here , I’m in my fifties ,reside and hunted deer in Michigan entire adult life on private and public land on all zones.I can tell there’s a difference in the last 15 years and not for the good. I remember when used to be a deer count at the bridge up to about 14/15 years ago and many deers were taken.Zone one is decimated by wolves(UP has about double the number of wolves that Yellowstone has)but still has good numbers of deer in two counties were I hunt on the gun season.Zone two has less and less deer due to increased predator populations and lots of hunting on public land and things need to change in a hurry before our deer hunting tradition becomes just a thing of the past .So I think us hunters we need to change the attitude,get more involved,accept the fact that needs to be a change in deer management and send a strong message to Lansing that they work for the people.My take is this: Zone one control the number of wolves (tell the feds to leave us alone) and one buck rule Zone two encourage more coyote hunting like putting bounty on their heads same like New Brunswick,Canada did in early nineties,one buck rule,harvest more does in some areas Zone three one buck rule,encourage doe harvest by reducing license prices,opening metro parks areas to hunting,more hunting access to private land through state lease similar to snowmobiling trails access and not paying for crop damage if land lords deny access for deer hunting.DNR has to take back hunting /trapping management from townships in the entire state and so on others,but us need to shut more does and let the bucks grow to be able to pass on some good genes.The tradition it’s hard to break,but I don’t think it’s satisfying to shut bucks that have antlers that look like hand fingers on top of the head and doe meat taste better anyway especially in the rut season .
These are all great recommendations, I wonder how we could really implement any of these, I think we have to start educating the public on these topics and hopefully the DNR can convince the NRC to make some changes...
Great video. Thanks for taking the time to inform us. I hunt both private and public and private land in zones 2 and 3. I think when the farmers figured out they could make money leasing made it hard for the younger hunters to get interested in hunting because of the lack of access to desent hunting properties.I trade work for access on private land because I can't justify what these properties cost to lease. There needs to be more hunter access in southern MI. Also to hard to get kids interested in hunting and actual learning to hunt and not spoon fed because of the lack of access, ambition, good mentors,and the price of equipment. I believe the does only for youth season is the only good decision the NRC made. I'm not happy with the decision they made to only allow does only for Liberty and disable hunters. What a slap in the face to these hunters that might not be able to get out and hunt the colder or harsher conditions of the later seasons because of their abilities Unfortunately the area I hunt mostly in southern Michigan never rebounded from the EHD several years back. I don't see that many does mostly bucks crusing. Not the numbers I used too. No change to property or surrounding properties or hunting pressure.Last year the property only held 3 does that I woud see almost every hunt. But do see areas down here that are over run with deer. I would love to see the state to go to a 1 buck rule. Not fond of the APR . Some areas the genetics aren't there. I have seen several older bucks, 3 to 4 year olds with racks that aren't within regs and probably won't ever amount to anything in western zone 2 in APR areas but still breeding and spreading there genetics.
Thanks for the response! Access is a major problem for me personally, I have to hunt public land, which is fine but its hard to take the kids out and have success on it. I could go either way on the doe only on the youth hunt, its fine but I dont think it matters tha t much, The disabled hunters thouh, making it buck only is a slap in the face! Id love to see 1 buck as well I just dont think it will happen given the current population of deer. I am in favor of antler point restrictions across zone 3 and 2, it is shown to help. I think we need to really focus on doe harvest in zone 3 but we have major access problems in this zone. How can the DNR help create more access for hunters in zone 3 to help curb the large doe populations? Unfortunately, I don’t think the NRC or DNR is going to change any rules that could potentially limit harvest or reduce tags sales, remember the NRC/DNR bring in revenue from those tag sales… and they want more deer taken, especially in zone 3 so limiting potential harvests seems counterproductive to the end goal of reducing the herd.
Great video man! Spot on. A group of us used to go to ohio and you can just see that they do a good job with there deer herd. Thanks for the video and have a good day
100% agree with everything you said there is way to many doe in Michigan and there is monsters here last year I shot a 180” 10 point I didn’t even know I had on my land
Oh yeah, there are big bucks here I just dont feel like they move a lot due to the pressure and the amount of does anymore, I feel like bucks dont have to search out does, the does just find them now.
I wonder how many vehicles are on the road now compared to 5 years ago? as far as deer vehile collisions go. Houses have poped up in rural areas everywhere, and now these people drive long commutes to work everyday. it definintely could be other issues at play other than deer population. my own area has 70 percent more house over the last 15 years and shows no sign of slowing down, and I am in agricultural area. roads that were orginally sparse of traffic now have people running 60 miles an hour getting from one town to the next. way more traffic !! And they are ripping it at night !
Well this whole thing in my opinion is really due to 2 things, urban expansion… Humans are taking away more land to live on so deer have less land but easier to survive and also less hunters and less harvest keeping it in check. With urban expansion comes easier lives for deer, less predators more supplemental feeding, but a crap ton more car accidents, like a lot. If public safety is being reduced the government is gonna step in and take out some deer.
It’s difficult to change trends such as trying to once again increase deer hunter numbers. Once people choose another hobby or leave hunting it’s difficult to get them back. Usually, something has to become easier to enjoy before a change in trend can be realized. A very controversial topic is baiting. While many people believe that it’s not needed, it does allow someone to see many more does on a smaller, and not necessarily agricultural, piece of property. It made it easier for someone to see more deer, feel the excitement of that animal being close, etc. And for someone to believe that they could recover the costs of the sport. I don’t know any other easier way to recruit more hunters, than to allow baiting.
Yeah this makes a lot of sense, I just don’t understand why they are so obsessed with the baiting ban, It doesn’t seem to be a problem in a lot of other states that allow baiting, if they really wanted to have people be able to harvest more deer allowing bait would drastically up people success rates IMO. Baiting is the easiest way for someone to be able to harvest a deer. If had great success targeting larger bucks with bait as well deep in the swamp, you just have to setup the bait the right way. Thanks for the thoughtful response!
Hi. I like your video, and I agree with you on just about all of it, except about zone 2. I live in zone 2, and the way they do for doe management differs from county to county. For example, in Alpena county last year, you could get 12 doe tags for $5 each, but in Otsego county, you could only get 2 doe tags for $20 each. This is to encourage hunters to take does where they are over populated. On M32 that I drive for work on average, there are 3-4 does hit by cars each week. We have way to many does. Keep videos like this coming this had some good info in it.
The access to private land anymore is almost nonexistent. Gone are the days of knocking on the door and getting permission. It’s either pay a ton of money to lease or the people just don’t want you on the land because liability.
I agree sir, I asked 20 land owners last year and everone said no . I asked to lease and they said already under agreement, wouldnt even let me barter, not that i can afford a lease anyway!! hhaha
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors I’m 39 and out of high school I had close to 900 acres of private that I permission to hunt. That has since dwindled to 45 acres which I now own which is a blessing. So less hunters in combination with less access to private and public land is a bad recipe for deer populations. Also I would imagine if someone is willing to pay thousands of dollars on a lease. They are probably doing it to shoot a nice buck and not fill a bunch of doe tags. Which leads to even higher deer numbers. Just my opinion.
I would be more than glad to help the DNR with reporting. BUT...the only Interaction I had with a DNR officer-he was the most unprofessional POS I have ever ran into. We do need a one -buck rule and maybe better land access like South Dakota.
I was on the U.P. DMI team and one of my recommendations was going to 3 point restriction on the single tag up here. Idea is to create a better age class of bucks to have a better buck to doe ratio. The DNR had the info on the doe harvest, and the amount of people that harvested more than 5 does is dismill
I tried not to get too into the U.P. You guys have your own set of challenges, and I really don’t understand most of them. I think APR’s would help the overall herd. Did you feel like people aren’t harvesting a lot of does because the doe population is low?
Just a suggestion Though I am 73 I still work full time I monitor 12 channels . It took you exactly 3:30 to say number 1. I just don't have that kind of time..
I just don’t think the DNR or NRC more so is going to do anything that could negatively impact harvest numbers, or tag sales. Bottom line is they want more deer taken and they need the tag sales to continue to bring revenue in. If we go 1 buck make them but 1 doe tag as well is my vote.
I agree to almost everything you said! The doe population is a huge issue! Maybe bringing the price of the doe tags down might help. We should model our deer management similarly to Ohio!
Last year the DNR was pushing hard to get people to harvest more does, PROBLEM is they made you pay full price for every tag. No thanks give me an incentive to purchase more doe tags!!
I just don’t think the DNR or NRC more so is going to do anything that could negatively impact harvest numbers, or tag sales. Bottom line is they want more deer taken and they need the tag sales to continue to bring revenue in. If we go 1 buck make them but 1 doe tag as well is my vote.
Good job! Facts where great.That 8% second buck tag success interesting.Im in Washtenaw also.Access in urban areas is possible they can close a park in Ann Arbor for contract sharpshooters at 3:00pm in January but not me for archery. I live 4 miles away.How about U of M property it's public for God's sake.
I would love to see APRS in zone 3 but its not going to happen anytime soon I believe… I think If we went out and harvested a ton of does in zone 3 it might be a possibility down the road but they wont restrict any harvests in areas with high deer populations, they want more deer taken, not less.
You hit a key point about zone 3! You talked about driving around and seeing a shit load of deer in the field! Well for the most part that's a huge parcel of land that's private owned and only 2 or 3 family members hunting it! These land owners have the mentality of MY deer and it's a lot of the problem. I remember a time when you could stop and ask to hunt and usually even if for just that day would get a yes! Now it's a hard no or you have to sign a lease and fork out money to hunt. Im lucky and have a couple of private land places to hunt but most don't!
Even my brother in law who has 400+ acres won't let my brothers and I hunt because he's afraid we will shoot a bigger buck than he does 🙄 he will not shoot does either! it's insane and he claims to be a Republican! All this RUclips and social media crap these days about being a trophy hunter is ruining it to. It's about family and filling the freezer with delicious venison and doing our part to keep the heard in check. I took 6 deer last year and donated two to the food bank! That's the American way😎👊
I love the change in the youth hunt, and as far as everything else, they’re just trying to eliminate all the deer changing muzzleloader to every rifle you’re trying to eliminate the deer
LEAVE A COMMENT DOWN BELOW PLEASE, WHAT IS YOUR OPINION???????
Michigan doesn't care about hunters they only care about $$ look at the state land they clear cut. Look at certain areas barely any deer but u can shoot what ever. Look at the crossbow rules so now bowhunters that are a special breed have to compete with gun hunters that only came to bow season cause of crossbows ruined my season and now there gonna ruin muzzle loading why even call it muzzle loader season mi is messed up
@@billmarsh2941so true I would love to see Michigan become a one buck state not forever but it definitely needs to happen for at least 3 years I haunt in mid-michigan I start my hunt on October 1st and I don't stop until haunt season's over and I maybe get one chance at a decent buck a year by chance I mean I see at least 1 big buck a year in a tree stand rather than that I have people walking app on top of me in really small dose I don't mind shooting those but I'm not going to waste a tag on a deer that my dog's bigger than I hunted private property for 3 years with the most 3 years I got 3 bucks that are a 130 inches now I haven't stayed land within the 5 to 6 years of hunted state land I've had one buck on camera that it's a 130 inches There are way too many hunters per property on state land which pushes all the deer on private
Maybe they should make the whole month of November fire arm season
@@three003d Thats where we are heading....
Thanks, I need the improvement baiting again.
I am a hunter, I've lived in Michigan all my life, and I'm in my 50's. I used to shoot my share of deer, mostly does with an occasional buck each year. Do you want to know what changed? I'll tell you.
Those controlling government have no idea what hunting is, have no idea how to manage it, see hunting as just another source of revenue, and don't want you to own guns anyway!
1) The decision to make SMALL GAME tags MANDATORY to purchase a DEER license! They saw our hunters as a source for taxation, a source of revenue, not that we the hunters, helped manage our resources. Money hungry politicians!
2) Substantial raise in the cost of licenses... INCLUDING DOE TAGS GOING FROM $5.00 each to $20.00 each. Again, just another source of revenue, not valuing the hunters. Money hungry politicians!
3) It used to be that when you shot a deer, you could go get it processed for $45.00-$50.00. What does it cost now? $85.00-$100.00 per deer. It's work and the processors earn it. I heard fellow employees at a major company where I worked say, "It costs so much to hunt and process deer nowadays, I'd rather just buy steaks from the grocery store for the same amount, and be done with it."
I remember back in 1986, during firearm gun season, seeing a HERD of 40+ deer running in ONE big group, across farm ground in Zone 3. That''s when we started shooting does. We got the population under control.
This new group of politicians running things should look back to see how they dealt with the deer population back then, with common sense regulations, instead of only seeing our hunters as a source of revenue for every pet project they have.
The DNR should be controlled and run by common sense hunters, not bureaucrats.
Common sense would tell you:
1) Lower tag prices for does.
2) Don't require a stupid SMALL GAME LICENSE for DEER HUNTING!
3) The costs are too high. Look for common sense ways to save hunters money, not charge them more.
4) When you're trying to get a new generation of hunters to start hunting, don't restrict youth hunts to does and no bucks.
Common sense seems hard to come by these days! I appreciated your video. Thanks for your time.
you said it I've seen same things I'm 64
I just turned 65 , seems like all the rules have changed so drastically , I believe your right !!!!! Getting harder every year to get out and enjoy the sport like we used to !!!!!
I agree with a lot of these points!!
Agree!
It's $13 to get a small game tag thats hardly an inconvenience. Process your own deer, be self sustaining. I agree on the lower cost doe tags.
Most of Michigan current politics are against us owning gun
Do you believe its now bleeding into our hunting heritage?
@MichiganGreatOutdoors yes sir I do I believe we're heading down the path of California.
Jamie tomson mi rep doing a interview tonight on RUclips with 2a edu about some new gun control being pushed in Michigan she the repisentive for Taylor monroe
Thanks I will check it out!!
That's why hunters need to vote. There are 10's of thousands of hunters and gun owners that are not registered to vote
$20 for a doe tag restricts the number of tags I will buy. Lower the cost and more does will be taken.
@timfoster7979 I agree with that 100% these tag prices definitely hurt the bank on top of deer processing fees are getting outrageous
The state should try 2 or three does on a ticket for $20.
just across the border in ontario canada, we pay $48.36 per deer tag, $20 is a fart in the wind
I'm in my mid fifties. Have been a hunter with my parents since age 10. The gun grabbing politicians in bed with the big insurance companies have destroyed a family tradition for many low income michiganders. The fees and forced licenses have increased at an insane rate. I can remember doe tags at 3 dollars each. 25 dollars for a complete license. With the insane increase in processing you are looking at 300.00 plus per animal. They are driving the hunters away at an alarming rate. I have been a meat hunter and never a trophy hunter my entire life. Feed the family first then go for the trophy. Make it affordable again and the hunters will return. I personally know at least a dozen hunters that have left the sport on costs alone. Why in the world force a small game tag when 90 percent of the hunters that are forced into these tags ever step foot in the woods for small game. I've hunted myself 40 plus years and have small game hunted twice. It's just not my thing. Taxation without representation.
The small game base license made zero sense to me, I do wish they would remove that but it brings in additional monies.
Michigan dnr work for state farm. Change my mind
@@personalprojectile a lot of people think this.
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors and with GOOD REASON WE THINK THAT . At 38 i already had 24 yrs of experiance in when You Were Born as well as Paying Attention to our long standing political mess . Now add on another 27 years of experiance beyond that is 51 yrs of eyes wide open Not being gullible . You act like all us older guys are full of crap . Thats Stupidity itself . Youre a mocking bird for what they tell you . Good lord dude us older ones WERE THERE !!! WEVE DEALT WITH THIS DNR CRAP FOR DECADES !!!
THERE IS NOWHERE NEAR THE NUMBER OR THE QUALITY DEER THERE USED TO BE ANYWHERE IN MICHIGAN . THATS A FACT !!! In 76 or 77 they released MANY BREEDING PAIRS OF COYOTES STATEWIDE TO RE-ESTABLISH THEIR NATURAL RANGE . EVERY FORM OF HUNTING HAS BEEN DECIMATED FROM THAT STUPIDITY TOO !!!
OUR FORE-FATHERS WERENT DUMBASSES TO EXTERMINATE THEM . 2 yrs ago my buddys trail cam showed the yote bitch carry back 27 fawns in 1 week by his house . You can no longer find a pheasant or quail anywhere around there what was great hunting . Youve got Alot to Learn before you disrespect us older hunters and what we KNOW .
@@bobgyetvai9444
So do you believe the DNR and NRC holds all the keys or do us hunters have some responsibility for this? Ive been hunting since I was 12, ive saw some things as well in my day. I see more deer than I ever have while hunting, but they are mostly does, I see way less bucks.
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors i believe our deer have become Far More Cunning compared to elsewhere . In Missouri or Southern Iowa or Nebraska or Kansas the deer are Not Nearly as Wary . Many times they wont even run away !!!Those are all destination states . Its not the bird hunters that upset the deer . They KNOW when THEY are being pursued . The mature American Whitetail buck has Long Been Known to be the Hardest big game animal in the World to hunt . The only thing harder to hunt is man himself when PRESSURED .
Fact !!! We have WAY TOO MUCH PRESSURE FOR WAY TOO LONG if its a rack youre after . The rut is the only exception but Decembers 2nd rut sees more bucks honestly . Everybody went home and the younger girls are sexy and stupid . FACT . It should Still be a muzzleloader only season . After that Then harvest doe primarily . Id much rather eat a doe than bucks . No Contest .
I'd thought this for awhile.... But! If they did then they would allow baiting more doe would get killed and IF cwd is a thing then they would win either way.. 🤷
I bought a place in zone 2, (Lake County) in 2017. Retired here in 2018. The first couple years I lived here I couldn’t drive my Polaris Ranger more than 2 miles down a two track and not see 2 to 5 five deer, and that was anytime I went out. Today I can drive 20 miles and see ZERO regardless of time of day. Michigan DNR is clueless on deer management. I hunted Nebraska for 6 years instead of Michigan before I moved to Zone 2 and did so much better than our state. I am 70 and really don’t want to drive 16 hours to hunt deer. APR restrictions should be state wide and these block permits farms put in for should be given to the youth hunters or open to the public!!! I can shoot unlimited does in my area where the deer population is WAY LESS than it was 7 years ago. You can’t fix STUPID!!
I think zone 2 needs to managed differently than zone 3. Let the doe tags be 10 in zone 3 but only 1 or 2 in zone 2. APR’s mandatory in zone 2 sorry your hunting has gotten worse…. I keep hearing these from a lot of guys up north…
#1-access,#2-to much activity in the woods before hunting begins,#3-early seasons,as we know,deer are not stupid ,and they start to turn nocturnal after seasons begin,#4 there is a lot of cover for them to hide and access comes in again!
I agree 1,000 % on access, also I agree on the activity in the woods these days, I run a lot of cameras and I usually put them up in Late July, the amount of people I see walking in really good spots in the woods 2 days before opening day is wild....
Deer do not go nocturnal, they learn your pattern and know when you are not there. If you start seeing deer only on cam at night then you need to move your stand cus they know when and where you are
very true in some instances I think by me on the state land I hunt they just move in the cattails and deep swamp so you have to get right on them.
I was an out-of-state Michigan hunter last year ironically. I think even though only 8% of people use their second buck tag it lowers the bar on what buck they will harvest with the first tag. This still leads to many young bucks getting taken, when they might have saved that buck tag and just taken a doe for meat instead.
@@aaronzody9085 1,000 % agree on this statement!! I've done it before lol
Also agreed times a 1000
lol
Get rid of the fbi, cia and dnr!
Vote trump 2024!❤😂🎉
Trump all the way!!!
Trump in Nov & on Jan 20th when his gloves will be off
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors damn man, i almost subbed.
@@omgworkffsugh sweet
Youth hunt change. I think is good. If the youth was to get a doe i think they would be more prone to want to get a buck and more wanting to hunt. Also the adult wont be able to take a earlie season buck saying it was the youth to cheat and take advantage of the earlie season youth hunt...
Yup! We all know that happens with the dads too... I dont think its a lot of them but im sure its a few!!
Smart!
if it happens I believe its a very low percentage. I like to believe most hunters are honest.
@EROCK1966 If we are going to have a youth hunt let them shoot a buck if they get a chance. They might see the biggest buck they will ever see and they can't shoot it? This is just too make jealous hunters that can't get a buck happy. Anyone can shoot a doe. I know this comment will be removed.
@@kingfisher302 I don't remove comments unless they spew hate.
Good rant. Access in southeast MI is a problem. I’d like to see the DNR engage the county and local parks in Wayne and Washtenaw, at least for archery. I see banger bucks all the time in my Wayne county suburbia but drive an hour plus to rub elbows with every other public land hunter in southeast MI just to get goasted every weekend.
100,000 % agree!! Id love to get on some deer in Wayne County, there are hammers in Westland and Livonia!! Dnr needs to do more to get us some access!!
Absolutely correct.... The trail systems are crazy in the urban state game areas when it's 100 acres and theirs a 150 trails for walking or fat tire bikes... Trying to deer hunt in an area like that is a joke, and to the point totally not safe during gun season with warm fall temps and people just out for a walk or bike ride, but people forget that hunters are the ones that pay for the access/ maintenance with tags and equipment purchases for all to use, and we get the stinky end of the stick. All of this activity push deer to private and that adds to deer conflicts.
@@normankaster917 this is very true statement!!
@@phillip6863 Access here in Oakland Co. is constantly shrinking. Seems the dnr(state), is doing more selling of land than managing.
Lets consider this - According to the American Psychological Association, approximately 40-50% of first marriages end in divorce. The divorce rate for second marriages is even higher, with approximately 60-67% of second marriages ending in divorce.
Would be interesting if you compare the divorce rate in those areas. We have less and less kids being raised by men. This is affecting it I am sure. The majority of women I am sure are not even teaching young men how to light a fire.
wow, another thing I haven't considered.... it seems like more women are getting into the sport these days but we need our men to keep our boys engaged!!
The women in my life love hunting and the outdoors more than the men. Seem unlikely there is any significant correlation there.
@@TheBlackrider85 You can google But the proportion of hunters who are female-10 percent in 2016 So 10% are female. Then we have 67% divorced. Numbers are getting lower. I am so happy for you but that is not the norm,
I believe access is the biggest problem. Hunting as a teenager I had a lot of private land to hunt. Now you just can't get permission. I scored a small lease and hunt some public now but there seems to be a lot more bowhunters now on public and that makes it more difficult. Takes the fun out of it sometimes.
I agree, its an issue I deal with yearly. Ive probably asked for permission around 20 times in my life and its always been a hard and very stiff NO!
What You're talking about is greed that builds in struggle over poor management. The Truth is the Hunter population has only increased about 14% in 60 years. That being said, They reintroduced wolves, let the Animal rights NGO's infiltrate the DNR, Turned crop damage into a cash cow for farmers instead of a quality management tool. Qualifying for crop damage tags should require public access. Why do the 1% land owners get free tags to hunt over crops in August without restriction, the same herd us public Hunting tax payers are paying to Hunt in October with no Baiting, no tax breaks, no free doe tags with purchase, no land management cooperation access!! But they take the Buck Hunting away from our Youth & Liberty Hunters!! 🤭🙄🤬
@@beez7753 most of that is more created by our NRC being the Walmart of Wildlife management, especially where deer licenses are concerned. Non resident should be preference point based, Antler less should be available starting when crop damage tag's are issued. I'm a Michigan tax payer why can farmers hunt crop damage in August but I can't hunt Doe's with my Bow in August for meat to feed my family?
I know a bunch of you are going to get mad but the biggest reason where losing hunters is its been made a rich man game lease hunting is the whole problem you have two or three guys paying some crazy amount to hunt that land say 100 acres so now youhave three guys trying to shot a trophy and not shooting anything where before lease hunting there was 10 people hunting that piece. I think if a farmer lease his land for hunting should not get any government ad for crop lose. I guarantee you that will that would up the hunter numbers. I live in southwest Michigan all the land leased up.
I don’t think it will make anyone mad cause I think a lot of us agree on this point. Access sucks in zone 3 in Michigan. Zone 3 has hardly any state land…. We really need to get some more HAP lands or hunter access programs.
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors hap lands are terrible spots !!! Worst ive ever seen for ANYTHING .
This lease issue is indeed BS for the rich guys !!! I agree that Ag subbsidies should be cut if thats done . We poorer people have no other leverage to apply to this issue . People and times were never this way for YEARS . This lease idea has created a PIG !!! Highest bidder wins but - youre subsidised by the rest of us too bud . Better think about it farmer , sounds like a good idea to me .
We always hear about damages done by stragers . Ive never caught hunters pulling that crap . BUT IVE CAUGHT SEVERAL LOCAL PUNKS SHOOTING UP TRACTORS AND EQUIPMENT RIGHT IN THE ACT !!! IVE MARCHED THEIR BUTTS TO THE FARMHOUSE TOO TO SQUEAL ON THEMSELVES .
NEVER A THANK YOU FROM THAT FARMER WHEN HE KNEW THE KIDS .
THATS BS TOO .
@@anthonygood7320 thats what i was saying, there making michigan a rich man tourest state
@@anthonygood7320 truth
BTW. You are the first I heard to address the car insurance lobby problem on youtube.....
@personalprojectile dude, me and my uncles have talked about the car insurance thing for decades lol. It's a very common conversation.Come to your season when we used to hunt up north and not see anything hahaha.
Just wanted to add my thoughts as a hunter getting back into the scene for the first time in 7 years.
I live in Sturgis. There is ZERO public access near me. The absolute closest is approximately 100 acres and the next closest is 30 minutes with minimal acreage as well. So, I bought an Indiana bundle tag so I can hunt the Pigeon River public hunting area. I can harvest two does and a buck. Through my scouting of that piece of public, I've observed several bachelor groups of very nice bucks and I wholeheartedly believe Michigan needs to implement a one buck a year rule. Maybe an "earn a buck" incentive similar to Indiana as well.
Your point of using the zones properly is good as well. That, and the DMUs. You have em, use em. It's a wasted resource to not maintain those. And I believe the rest is a culture issue. Nobody cares if so and so is out there schwacking does left and right. The population needs it. The state needs more hunters out in the woods. It'll be a dying sport before we know it.
They need to open the metro parks for hunting
that would be awesome!! Id be all in on that!
@@petermastrangel546 every subdivision should allow archery hunting.
So when will auto insurance companies help pay for rising processing costs when i fill 10 doe tags and 2 buck tags in zone 3.
I wish but they wont.... The only way to afford it is to process yourself...
I hope we never go to a earn a buck system. I'm really on the APR wagon and have been for 15 years. We just need a 4 year span of having APR's of 8 and above. just enough to give us a buffer zone of more mature bucks.
YOUTH HUNTS BEING FOR ANTLERLESS ONLY(FINALLY) BEST DECISION THEY COULD DO WITH THAT!!!
Why do u want that? Just curious, thanks!!
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors Because there is ALOT OF MONEY being spent to go deer hunting,and the youth hunt starts before the regular season,and these kids are allowed to go shoot the biggest bucks because it's easy to bring the Big bucks in at that time of the year with know pressure at all!!!! I was 12 when I started hunting,in 1978,and you worked to just get a deer!! If they want kids at 8 and up to shoot either buck or doe,give them a week at the end of December, but not a couple weeks BEFORE ANYONE ELSE CAN HUNT,SHOOTING BOON AND CROCKET BUCK EVERY YEAR,JUST NOT RIGHT,TO EASY FOR KIDS ,HAVE THEM LEARN THE RIGHT WAY,go scout learn there habits,alot of people with kids,even my own 2 boys,learned the right way,NOT GIVING THEM 8'S,10'S,AND 12 POINTS,JUST WRONG!!! GLAD ITS COMING TO AN END!!
Yeah makes sense to me, learn from trial and error and not just having instant success! Thanks for sharing your thoughts, I appreciate it! Good luck this season !
Makes no sense really. Isn't there a doe only weekend right after the youth hunt. I believe this will drastically decrease participation in the youth hunt. Personally, I have 2 kids have done youth hunt about 5 years now. Have never harvested a deer. Either decent buck not presented shot and kids chose not to shoot a spike, weather, not fun a few times chose not to go out, 80+ degrees in a tree in the woods, My kids like to hunt so they come with me during the regular seasons so not pressed for early season deer. Why take kids out for a doe when they are so many opportunities to do so during regular season
Well we should see that in the harvest reports and the data that should be collected.
I'm from Ohio and wouldn't want any more then one buck a person. It just works. If Michigan wants to keep 2 buck tags it needs to at least go to some form of earn a buck. Will save alot of your 2 year Olds for sure.
Its very apparent that its working in many states, it appears as the MI DNR is worried if we go to a 1 buck state we would havest even less deer!!
@MichiganGreatOutdoors Aweosme videos man. And people would have to adapt to the mind frame of killing some does for the freezer and be a bit more picky on their buck. Either way hunting in Michigan is a BLAST and enjoy the trip every year. Already got my tags in the mail for this year lol. Keep the videos coming.
Glad to have you coming up!! Your the second person ever ive heard come to michigan to hunt deer!! HAHAHa lol
@MichiganGreatOutdoors A buddy from my way brought up two years ago for rifle season. Shot a 100" 8pt the first year, he shot a pretty nice 6pt and I been hooked ever since. Nice hunting some different terrain🤟
We have antler point restricions on our deer hunting varies by area and counties this protects our buck age class
I've been hunting MI since I was 13 in 2000. I was very fortunate to gain access to a beautiful piece of 40 acres in Ionia county in 2019. In the last 5 seasons I have worked hard to do my part and have harvested 16 does and 8 bucks which is certainly higher than the state average of doe:buck harvest ratios. So, I do feel the new doe seasons/lower tag cost is in the right direction to increase doe harvest numbers. But, I don't really agree with the new regulation to limit what new hunters can harvest.
I'd like to think when I believe my son is mature enough to harvest a deer for the first time; that he would have the same opportunities that I had when I was first starting out and harvest whatever gets him excited as that's what it's all about. (You said you yourself shot anything you could when you were younger, as did I) I just don't really agree with limiting the opportunity to first-time hunters starting out because of a problem our and previous generations have created. Might as well just lose the youth hunt at this point, since I'd rather him wait and hunt with me in October/November to have more opportunities to harvest what makes him happy; and restricting him into only being happy to shoot does isn't fair, as that wasn't what we were excited about when we were first starting out either. We wanted a chance at ANY deer that got us excited and made us happy.
Thats awesome you have had success in your area doing your own management, I think people believe its some mystical thing that we can all achieve together and the truth of the matter its not, we CAN all help get that buck doe ratio closer to 50/50 and our hunting will drastically improve...
I also think its crappy the NRC and DNR allowed youth season to be doe only, with my luck that giant 10 ive been after for 3 years will walk out in front of my son this youth season and will only be able to film it.... Also taking away from the veterans is just down right disgusting to me... they should be able to shoot bucks
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors agree 1000% Always seems to be 1 step forward and 10 steps back at the same time with our NRC. I really think MI needs a hunter-funded lobby group that can start affecting change politically at the state level with the Governor. It doesn’t seem like anything will ever change until a new NRC is established that will actually listen to what DNR has been informing them for years.
I found your channel by accident. When I saw the topic concerning deer hunting changes I had to check it out. You did an awesome job going through everything. I am 68 years old and have hunted fished and camped Michigan longer than I can remember. I hunted public land until the last few years. M y son purchased a small farm which has some good numbers of deer. Does mostly. All deer hunters need to more does. We have charity organizations that can distribute version to the hungry. I appreciate your time and help and for this video. Please do more. I agree that data needs to be collected so we can make intelligent decisions for the future. There's no reason Michigan is not a destination state. Let's follow the data. Look at Ohio. We are not that much different. Keep your channel going for the future of our hunting. Thank you,
Tim
Tim! thanks for the thoughtful response, the reactions to this video have been incredible to be able to learn so much from everyone else!! good luck to you this season!
I live in zone 3 and it is insane how many deer I see on private land , we are talking 25 to 60 at any given sunset
Yup! I see it as well!
I appreciate you taking the time to out this all together. Looks like lots of changes coming for us hunters.
You bet, good luck this season!
THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME.. GREAT INFORMATIVE VIDEO!!!! BE BLESSED BROTHER !! Looks like my hunting fund is going up More does for me too . But I've always tookin a doe for the freezer every year.. Try to never leave a tag unused...
Absolutely! I truly believe we gotta harvest more does, if we can get that buck doe ratio closer to 50/50 I think its going to tremendously help our hunting experience! Bucks will have to chase and find does again!!
In my area (West and Central), many processors went out of business during and after Covid-19. Prices were driven much higher, and it costs over $100 to process each deer. That $5 tag is a lot more expensive.
I hear ya, its hard to stomach paying for 1 or 2 deer to be processed now a days....
@@Dissident_Porcupine73 my area was 200 dallors
@@Dissident_Porcupine73 20 dallors a tag in michigan us to be 5 dallors went up every years
I'm 64 years old, been hunting since 1986 both public and private land, private the last 26 years. You are right on about managing zones properly! In zone 2 we don't need the neighbors shooting 10 does each! We are restricted to 3 points on one side, I'd move it to 4 on one side, that would grow bigger bucks. Also Allow hunters to use doe tags down state. Especially zone 3 allow baiting where it's hard to get hunting access, also it would be easier for younger guys with less money to hunt closer to home and have a decent shot at seeing and killing a deer, at least seeing a few deer every hunt is enjoyable even if you don't get a shot at one! It's about the experience and knowing at least you have a chance at getting one rather than just staring at trees for days on end. I've been on both sides, hunting public land when I was younger and owning my own hunting property. I was fortunate enough to be able to buy hunting land when I was a little more established, for that very reason public land was difficult to hunt because of the pressure. I can't imagine trying to hunt without food plots, or baiting on public land! Also the state should open metro parks to hunting instead of hiring sharp shooters to cull the deer! The nonsense with the metro parks is exactly why people don't trust the government! Its common sense!!
This is probably one of the best responses ive heard in these comments. I agree with all of what you said, it is common sense, It is about the experience!! If you hunt for a whole season and don’t see a deer your probably not going to come and hunt next season! If its not exciting, why would you want to hunt again? I remember the days when I was younger, and bucks would fight over does and you could use rattling antlers to call deer in. I’ve rattled for the last 4 years and bucks don’t ever bother looking at you anymore. The buck doe ratio is so out of whack them bucks know they don’t have to fight for a doe… There are more does than they can all breed!!
Access in zone 3 where most of the deer are totally sucks. You just can’t gain access to hunt on private unless you have big bucks for a lease.
Great video. I used to travel Michigan to hunt. I had great hunting spots around Atlanta and Hubbard lake area. Too much money to travel and i wont get into the horrible Atlanta state land tick problem. I haven't traveled in 4 years because of inflation. I live in Livingston County and pretty much just hunt on our property. I now have 2 jobs and have very little time to do to inflation. I do not have time to process deer myself, and processors have gone up tremendously. So, if I harvest a deer, it has to be a mature deer. Having that said, I haven't seen a mature deer in 2 years. Possibly because other hunters are thinking the same thing. Expensive processing, so you better make it worth the cost and harvest only the mature. If you can find one. The only thing keeping me hunting is the fact i have two boys im trying to raise right. If you read this, thanks for listening
Man, this hits home hard, inflation is killing most of us these days, its been tuff for us. Fortunately I was able to upgrade my employment recently for an increase in salary, I’m not really sure what my plan is going to be for deer season on the deer processing. Processing fees are out of control and I can’t imagine how much they are going to be this year. I don’t mind cutting them up myself but I don’t have the time in deer season to do it because I just want to hunt!! Keep raising them boys the right way man!! Thanks for watching!
I grew up in Hubbard Lake on the North End and hunted on My Uncle's 96 acres.
This is super appreciated as someone trying to get into deer hunting. I totally agree btw, access is absolutely a barrier for me.
@Roystoncreates yeah, its tuff to get anyone to allow permission
100% agree. From talking to lot of people the big issue is a lot of hunters only want to shoot 1-2 deer a year but they have tons of acres to hunt so only taking 2 deer off does nothing for the land. A lot of people just don’t want to deal with taking care of a doe after the shot. I think dnr should put up donations centers, I guarantee the doe harvest will go up and if they do some kind of discount for every deer that’s donated people would be more inclined to shoot doe’s. I live in Kalamazoo so hard to get private land access, over crowded stateland and tons of deer is what I’m used to. Love the video
Unfortunately, I don’t see this getting any better and I see it getting worse. So allowing donations might be the way to go… Id hate to see it if it continues to get worse….
I think the youth hunt change is great , it might stop the greedy Dads (you know who you are) from using their kid to get first crack at that big buck .
Yeah, you know it happens too! I think its probably kinda low percentage but yes, I do believe some dads probably cant help themeselves....
39:20 reduce the price of the doe license would encourage me to get another doe license
I agree! Earn a doe! for better price!
A County in zone 2 is were my hunting property is, when we started the antler restrictions there we didn't like it, but after the 5th year we loved it, so many buck running around, we see 6s and 8s on a daily basis and 10s and up we hold out for, best thing they done for good bucks, everyone should be on board with the antler restrictions.
It work!
They 100% work and should be done statewide IMO That sounds great but harvest numbers are down across the state, If we have low harvest numbers in the state this season again. I don’t think the NRC or DNR is going to change any rules that could potentially limit harvest or reduce tags sales, remember the bring in revenue from those tag sales… they want more deer taken, specially in zone 3
I bought a combo last year for the first time because that second tag can be used on an anterless deer. Accidentally harvested a year old buck December 5 that had already shed its antlers. Was a weird year.
yeah, thats the tuff thing about hunting in the late season u might shoot a shed buck!!
Great Video- I appreciate your research and comparative #s to Ohio. I hunt private, Zone 3. Last year was a strange year- seemed to be a very late rut. I have never seen so many small fawns in the woods. I had to really size them up to make sure I wasn't paying $100 to process a 50lb deer. The does were really savvy; and I only got to harvest a small 7 point. Your right, with so many different seasons being added, I need to get out of MY rut and try new areas.
Good stuff Last year I didn’t really even see a rut… I think its because there is more does to bucks in my area and it seems like the bucks really don’t have to rut that hard to get on does anymore. Back in the day it was like the bucks would really be seeking and searching for does. Now there isn’t much buck movement at all in the woods im hunting in daylight, at night then you see tons of them coming in to find the does… any maybe part of that is just hunting pressure…
I’m a zone 2 solely public land hunter and have been my entire life, I choose to follow the laws and only baited when it was legal to do so, yes I saw more deer baiting but now not baiting I feel I’m becoming a much better woodsman and learning more about where deer actually are. I think too many people are overly worried about shooting a “trophy buck” so they blame lack of seeing trophy bucks on anything other than themselves putting in even just a little more effort.
A lot of hunters spend more time in the woods dragging in bags of bait than actually scouting and learning. Then when the season opens they become “security guards” of the bait pile hoping a deer will come to it, that’s lazy and silly.
@@Jake-Goodwin96 true and good. I'm a mobile state land hunter so I see your point. But my point is that it is not the governments responsibility to tell me I can not place a bag of apples in the woods. Partly because it is harmless and perhaps beneficial but firstly because it is unenforceable resulting in undermining the law abiding citizen
I agree, baiting should be a choice, there is no evidence to suggest it makes deer communicate more diseases. Ban Licking branches then!!
Learning to be a better woodsman and hunter is something we should all strive to achieve!!
hunting skills are much better when you don't bait.
Hey Polak, I agree with you on so many things. I live in Whitmore lake so I’m in your area and there’s such little state land it’s hard to get opportunities on does let alone a buck. I’ve sent letters and door knocked every year and never got a yes, yet everyone is upset with car insurance prices and car accidents on 23 lol.
I also and so disappointed the earn a buck or 1 buck was shut down. I kinda hold myself to earn a buck and won’t shoot a buck until I put a doe down.
The muzzleloader thing is stupid as well. I’m a bow hunter first and hate sharing the woods w muzzleloaders it’s just unsafe down here.
Lastly I’m disappointed in no bait. No one will ever tell me bait spreads…anything. Any woodsman knows deer lick each other constantly. I think hunter numbers drop off dramatically after the bait ban. The average weekend/rifle hunter can’t use bait and doesn’t have time to scout like some of us so they say hell w it. I don’t see anything wrong with a little corn or something but the dnr is so narrow minded is ridiculous.
Great video bud! Hoping to put a hand full of does down so to donate to some needy families I know, good luck this fall bud.
Yeah up in that area is tuff, Ive tried several of the state lands over there in Oakland county in the extented archery season and its just down right tuff to get on deer that late into season. I would have liked to see a 1 buck state as well but the NRC wont do it because of 2 reasons, 1 they believe it will cause less deer to be taken overall and # 2 and probably the most important is they will see a reduction in tag purchases which will hurt the funding... If you really look at whats going on, its all about money in my opinion, the whole world revolves around money....
This was a very well articulated video!! I really enjoyed all of the input. I hunt in zone 2 on the north west side of the state. It is really hard to get anyone to shoot any does, which is a difficult watch. I totally agree with your mentality there!!
Thanks for watching and the comments!! I appreciate hearing your point of view!
Very good Video!! You're absolutely right. Our two major issues are the need to harvest more does and the lack of private property access is the second huge issue. Finding a good private owned property for deer hunting is very difficult as you stated. There needs to be more effort by the DNR to expand access to private lands through their HAP program. Maybe they need to increase the incentives for private property owners. I live near lots of private farms and have had great difficulty obtaining access for deer hunting. I see deer within a couple hundred feet of my home and there are many causing accidents. I will continue to hunt on state land which I do have quite close to me but farmers should be taking advantage of hunters who are willing to take does to reduce their crop damage. Thanks for your report!
What im seeing is a farmer might have 200 acres and cousin Johnny wants to hunt it, so being family of course he gets first dibs, well cousin johnny wants to shoot big bucks and doesn’t want anyone else hunting the land cause he’s family and should get dibs first. So johnny tells Uncle Willy hey I want to hunt the farm exclusively and willy says I don’t care and then Johnny is the only one hunting and doesn’t shoot the does cause he wants the bucks to come into the property for the does and he also doesn’t wanna stink up the property chasing down does he shot so then it becomes a doe safe haven and an almost protected property, cousing Johhny shoots his wall hangar buck and maybe a doe in gun season to get his meat and hes happy.
The land owner doesn’t care about crop damage from the deer because hes not the farmer in most cases, most of the time he is leasing the property. Not all cases but a lot I think. Thanks for watching and your thoughtful response!!
I’ve long thought we (hunters and the hunting industry) need to come up with some way that makes people excited to hunt does. Like how everyone loves big antlers, something like this for does. If people get excited about shooting does I think the imbalance will balance out pretty quick. We have these same discussions in Ohio too.
Not an idiot at all!! You’re spot on for many states in the country IMO. Appreciate you bringing up the subject. More hunters (and non hunters) need to hear it.
Yeah, that would be a tremendous thing to be able to create some excitement somehow, I get excited for Chili and venny tacos!! I think if we can teach the younger generation more about proper management and conservation it should have a lasting impact!
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors yeah buddy! That’s good stuff. Yeah totally agree with teaching the kids the value of conservation and all that. I’m working on mine constantly.
I totally agree with the population of deer in zone 3 it has really ramped up! I live in Southfield in Oakland county and I seen 4 8 pointer’s and 4 doe in my neighbors front yard Wednesday night , they are all over the place! 10 years ago you never seen them around like this!
100% agree and you had a great execution of your opinion. Thank you fellow Michigander
Thanks for watching!!
Pressure is the problem you have,today. To many gimmick hunters. This guy is right the big bucks become nocturnal or very difficult to hunt. I am 60 years old and have many wall hangers. The secret is change your tactics and hunting locations and don't over hunt. By the 1st of Nov I have so many nice deer on my property because I stay out in oct. PRESSURE!! Goodluck out there.
Its my dream to have a piece of land to manage, that’s very smart that you stay out and wait until your property stacks up… Very smart. I don’t know if Michigan will ever be as good as Indiana, ohio or Kentucky if we keep going on this path!!
This is the best video I have seen on the new regs. You nailed the issues. No access in Zone 3, why have zone if they are not going to be used, and APR-improve the quality of bucks. I mainly hunt in Zone 2 in an APR county. APR has increased the age class of bucks. Thanks for the video and thoughtful analysis.
@DanielLake-k3m thank you 😊 I appreciate that!!
Mich has that you can purchase up to 10 doe licenses and you can use your buck tags for doe's, early and late season's used to be on private land only 👍 for adding public land
yes, lots of tags being dished out! Wish Doe tags were 10$
The one problem is the fact that you have to pay $185.00+ For processing per deer harvested I Take mine to KAS in south lyon they debone all of your meat and you get to pick 5 varietys of their sausage's , you have to set up a deer drop off time and day on their site ,They Are The Best Processor in all of the southern mich
You should go to public meetings with this information and your opinion is a voice for many others.
Next meeting is August 8th in the morning in Detroit, I wanted to go but I cant get off work....
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors I hear that. Smh. Can't afford to call in neither with, good ole Bidenomics lbVs
Hopefully it changes this november!!!
Excellent video thank you so much for the information. I agree with almost everything you said. I do believe the car insurance lobbyists are working hard to adjust the harvest to their needs.
The zone ideas you put forth are spot on. I have hunted in all three zones most of my life and can tell you that I see more deer in zone 3 than either of the other two zones together. While I'm fortunate that I have private property to hunt in zone 3, I also see many deer on public land.
As far as hunting opportunities and the number of hunters on public land in zone 3, again you are correct. I noticed this about 5 years ago. There was a cloud of hunters, especially during bow season, on the public land in our area (Livingston County).
Thanks again, look forward to the next video
Thanks, I appreciate the comments, yeah in my areas the public lands get absolutely hammered in bow season. It seems like by gun season it really tapers off and come December there isn’t hardly any hunters out.
I live in Monroe county zone 3. I grew up hunting here and had a ton of spots to hunt. I moved back here about 10 years ago and now I can't get one spot to hunt. This area is locked down and only those lucky enough to have private land can hunt. There needs to be more public access to land. The DNR needs a program to incentivize these farmers to allow people to hunt. The farmers are complaining that there crops are being destroyed and the insurance claims are up in zone 3.
I have the same issue. If you don't know the land owner or a friend of a friend your not getting access unless your paying for massive lease prices
Great thought provoking content. Suggestion: $50.00 combo tag: 3 does and 1 buck during archery season. I need that T-Shirt. 🎯
Id be down for that combo!
uomooutdoors.com/collections/dying-breed-bowhunter-collection/products/dying-breed-bowhunter-logo-t
Hi man love the content love what you said I have recently been lucky enough to find a big patch of land that I got permission to hunt and I have managed the property for a while and now have a state record white tail deer
@owenpiper5857 That's super cool man.Happy you.I wish I could find something like that.... I've been on public landm, my whole life, and it's real tough....
Michigan resident here, the hunting blows. Go hunt ohio, Indiana, Missouri, kansas and go see what real hunting looks like
Thats what im saying! Why cant Michigan be like those states??
I am glad they didn't do the statewide apr. Zone 1 is a different world compared to Zone 2 or 3. Earn a buck wouldn't work up here in zone 1. We are not even allowed to hunt does in my dmu. Since 2012 I believe. We have huge winter die offs up here due to the longer and more severe winters up along lake Superior. We can lose 20% of our herd in 1 bad winter due to weather and predators. I usually try to shoot an 8 or better but with our messed up ratios of deer and lack of a herd and age classes much of the time it is hard to do. I hunt mainly for meat not antlers although they are a nice bonus. I grew up and hunted in zone 3 and have lived and hunted in zone 2 and now for the last 20 years hunt in the keweenaw Peninsula which is surrounded by Lake Superior.
Yeah… It’s a whole different beast up in the U.P! that’s really why I didn’t want to talk about it too much as I don’t have any real experience there and I don’t think Id add much value talking about it.
I tend to only speak on things I have some experience with. I would like to see the wolve population managed up thee for u guys. It sounds like a mess with the wolves…
None of this matters when an anti-hunter is appointed as director of the DNR. Isn't that right gov. Whitmer.
do you think she is against hunting? Ive never saw her say that. I realize she is anti gun
I'm 66yrs old. I've hunted deer since I was 14. I only hunt near my home in zone 2. I would be more likely to harvest a doe if I was seeing 10-15 or more deer a day like I did as a kid. It was nothing to see 75+ deer hunting 5-10 days of the season. I'm a much better hunter now than I was at 14, but now I'm lucky to see 15 deer in those same 5-10 days. Even when baiting was allowed, I never saw over 5-10 deer in a 3 day hunt near my home in Cheboygan County.
I think thats becasue they are allowing 10 doe tags per hunter up there and the herd cant support that!!
Polack - Excellent Video - Thank you for your Speculative Portion too- Gets the hunters thinking.
You have a new subscriber!
We harvested 4 doe & 2 Bucks (4+ one side/both bucks) in the 2023 season. The 1st Doe was my 11 y/o grandson's 1 deer ! We are Very fortunate to have several private properties to hunt in zone 3 (Pinckney/Howell/Whitmore Lk areas).
We Need the Doe population in Zone #3 to be brought under control - THIS would be My Suggestion on How to do that Very Quickly... Harvest a Doe to Earn a Buck Tag. You want to see Early Antlerless and Youth seasons become popular? Try That way of earning a Buck Tag for 2 seasons!!
I believe You are correct - We have the state divided into zones, Lets Use Them - The State should manage the zones individually.
If we were a one buck state - we would have harvested 5 doe and one buck. Venison Is Great.
I think a Combo tag 1 buck 1 doe, you shoot a doe you earn a second buck tag would be perfect.
I think u have to check your doe into the dnr so its legit and then u can get a second buck tag. Why don’t they just try it and see if it works?
I hunt Livingston County for the last 15 years that sucks on muzzleloader, but I carry my muzzleloader during gun season thank you for breaking this down for us
Thanks for watching! good luck this season!!
U hunt private or puplic?
@@fessenden3337 I am able to hunt both
I haven’t participated in a deer hunt in a long time unfortunately. I enjoyed time in the field with family hunting in zone 2. When I started in the mid eighties you had to apply for a doe tag and if you won one in the lottery you were thrilled, so basically you could only hunt for a buck. That is, in my opinion, part of the reasoning behind what you refer to as the older mindset. I think having access to more doe tags is definitely a wonderful opportunity and I do look forward to getting back out into the woods.
Yeah that’s a really good point, I didn’t mean the older mentality was a bad thing, I was just hopng to push people that we must all continue to evolve to deal with challenges, if we really have 2 millon deer than we probably need to do a better job harvesting some does.
Good luck this season im glad that you are getting back out there!
Preach brother I can tell you actually hunt Michigan AND care about the deer herd. Thank you for your message.
Thank you sir!!!
I have hunted Michigan since 1981. I hunted zones 1,2 and 3. Here are the issues. 1. Many hunters care more about antlers than the meat and time with friends. 2. Rifle hunters hunt 3 days and go home not returning until the next year. Muzzleloader should be a week in October. Combo tags should be 2 either sex tags and an antlerless tag (3). Many hunters won’t hunt if they can’t bait.
I agree with all of these points! Muzzle loader should be in October and it should be a "real Muzzloader!!"
A week in October would be great for muzzleloading. There are times when the weather is brutal in December in the northern lower.
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors if it loads from the front its a muzzleloader PERIOD !!! Dont even start this sidelock vs inline bs !!! Michigans propellant laws need changeing too . The 40 cal was a good move .
That’s some good news for me with some of the changes. Adds a lot of time to my hunting season
@@joshuabuschbacher6776 I'm all for more opportunities to hunt, I wish they would let us start earlier like Wisconsin in September
I always wanted to see a mid september start!!@@MichiganGreatOutdoors
I'm a boomer that harvest does. But you are correct. There are a lot of hunters my age that will not shoot a doe.
It was pushed into their heads from their dads.
Yeah, I know several of them.I didn't mean any offense by the comment either.By the way, it's just a old school.Mentality is what I should have said.
@MichiganGreatOutdoors no disrespect taken.
I totally agree with you.
Back in the 50's and 60's around where I live in Central Michigan, the hurd was quite small, so we grew up wanting to preserve the doe. So the hurd would grow. That's no longer the problem.
Great job much appreciated. I'm a new follower of your channel. Thanks for your hard work.
Welcome aboard! And thank you!
Watched your video to the end and found it interesting that you were advocating taking antler less deer and then when you were talking about the early antler less deer season you mentioned going to another area knowing you would affect that hunting area and not your own area…..anyway you made a good video making valid points…….good job
Yeah, Well what I really meant to say was that I would not hunt my best big buck spots, I might go across the street or down the road or something. Probably do some scouting and find a good bean field to sit or something where a lot of does are coming out. I just meant to say Im not going to hunt my best spots to booger them up for opening day of bow.
Nice overview! Would like to see more videos from you like these. Keep up the good work.
Thanks, will do!
I will make sure they arent as long !! hahahaa
Nice job. Refreshing to have someone not talk about something they are not super familiar with. And skyrocketing is correct. It is crazy out here in the cornfields.
Thanks for stopping by to watch! Good luck this season!!
This is a great breakdown and a great message.
@@gerhardttravis8051 thanks for stopping by to watch!!!
i watch a lot of YT n there r a lot of out of state people coming here. o n i am 65 n meat in the freezer is more important then a rack.
What channels? Id love to check them out! thanks!
Thank you for stating this should be looked at as 3 separate zones. Zone 3 has no shortage of deer or big deer. We could have 2 buck unlimited does leave you 4 on a side second tag and still not put a dent in the heard. NRC states if we went 1 buck the deer population would jump 30-35 K a year. In 5 years that would be larger then Indians whole deer heard. NO ONE is stopping ppl form looking for access in zone 3. We also have the most car deer and crop damage problem. If the seekone guys can come from out of state to hunt and find access it just means we would rather bitch and complain then get private access. 4 parcels 2 acre, 15 all horse pasture, and 2 40 parcels with some age. 8 deer and my buddy 8 deer 3 bucks total harvest and passed many more we did not take enough. We have 30 deer sits from October 1 to January 1. Is that everywhere no but the DNR one buck and APRS aren’t for a whole state and should not be looked at that way. If the DNR want to get off their fish money and lease ground from large farming operations and pay for the bad apples that f-up things for good hunters on HAP. Then that should be looked into. Especially the ground bought by China backed ag groups with billgates. Bought thousands of acres in southern Michigan open that shit up but we will have to police it and keep other bad apples in line or it would be gone in a flash. I live in a large co-op area and have seen giants well befor QAD was a thing around here. Still comes down blakent restrictions are a bad idea! Period!!!!!
Yeah id be for having much different rules down here, access is still a problem... Im sorry but you wont change my thinking on this, I ask around 20 farms per year for access and its always a hard no. I think seek one is leasing these property's and not telling us. They make a lot of money, paying a land owner 10 grand for a season is nothing to them. I have a buddy who went all in last season and asked for permission on over 100 land oweners and not one said yes. they all wanted that leaase money. which is fine it is there land.
Thanks for explaining it all!
@@no6hunter absolutely, thanks for watching!
Bro you hit the nail on the head. I jumped on the lease game this year and it’s the best opportunity I’ve ever had in my entire life. Public is absolute garbage for deer hunting.
I wish I could afford a lease, if you dont mind me asking how much do you pay?
I agree that they should lower the price of doe tags buck tags should stay the same and doe tags should be half the price
half the price would be a much better deal and they would probably sell more.
Thanks for this video. I’m newer to hunting…wasn’t raised with it. I turned hiking into hunting. I prescribe to mobile hunting and putting in the time pre and post season. I’m in zone 3 and have walked most of the state land within 1.5 hours of where I live and have hunted I. A few places zone 2. I agree with your point of view. There’s so many hunters on public. It’s tough to find a little gem that is worth putting time into. Tagging does is what keeps me going. It keeps meat in my freezer. Seeing a pope n young buck in MI seems to be a dream. 2 mil deer is a stretch but we def have a huge urban/suburban population. I’ve seen plenty of 12-14 pt bucks in farmington hills. Dreamland buck quality in MI could be attainable and hunters should have more say and play in how the DNR manages. Deer control and hunting restrictions should be regulated by county groups bc populations vary so widely. But how much control do we want to hand over to the Govt? Maybe we should have county regs that help voice the opinion of hunters for the area they reside and typically hunt…
Its nice to see your journey from hiking to hunting and now managing some doe populations!!
I can assure you that if you keep learning and grinding you will see some P Y bucks in michigan public, they are here just hard to get on. Lots of mega giants in farmingron and Livonia just goes to show you that Michigan can produce some giant bucks, we need some politc free management by the NRC and DNR, you can see from the comments in this video that there are lots of different opinions on this matter.
I would like to see michigan go to a 1 buck tag 2 doe tag combo for 40 bucks. No point restrictions. If a guy or girl wants to shot a 4 point have at it we all have to start somewhere. I think alot of people just shot there first buck to get a buck knowing they have 2 buck tags
yeah I think that happens to, they reserve the second tag for a larger buck. kinda defeats the purpose of growing buckS!
8% of 500,000 hunters is still another 40,000 bucks. If we want more mature bucks I would think it would help to keep those 40,000 bucks per year alive. I really appreciate all the info.
Thanks for watching!!
I enjoyed your commentary and agree with a lot of what you said. A good view on why they decided to make the Liberty hunt antlerless only. I hunt both zones two and three and have seen the increase in antlerless tags in zone two the last several years when there was not the antlerless deer numbers to support that. You do not see a lot of deer in many areas there and hunters were shooting does then complaining of not seeing deer the next year. The DNR only gives the rope, the hunters got to be smarter and not hang themselves.
One thing I don't like is the any legal firearm during muzzleloader. I asked a DNR CO about that and he said it's about opportunity. I thought get a muzzleloader then if they want opportunity. That said, I think a good compromise is you can use any legal firearm, but can only shoot bucks in the muzzleloader with an actual muzzleloader.
Yeah, these blanket regulations for the whole state just don’t work… I know a guy who lives up in northern Michigan he shoots every deer he can every year cause he needs to fill his freezer, they changed the rule to 10 doe tags up in zone 2 a few years ago and he filled every tag, now hes complaining he aint seeing any deer. Its laughable, like what did you think was going to happen when you live in a very low deer density area. The deer have to be managed differently in certain areas.
I agree with most of the comments here , I’m in my fifties ,reside and hunted deer in Michigan entire adult life on private and public land on all zones.I can tell there’s a difference in the last 15 years and not for the good. I remember when used to be a deer count at the bridge up to about 14/15 years ago and many deers were taken.Zone one is decimated by wolves(UP has about double the number of wolves that Yellowstone has)but still has good numbers of deer in two counties were I hunt on the gun season.Zone two has less and less deer due to increased predator populations and lots of hunting on public land and things need to change in a hurry before our deer hunting tradition becomes just a thing of the past .So I think us hunters we need to change the attitude,get more involved,accept the fact that needs to be a change in deer management and send a strong message to Lansing that they work for the people.My take is this:
Zone one control the number of wolves (tell the feds to leave us alone) and one buck rule
Zone two encourage more coyote hunting like putting bounty on their heads same like New Brunswick,Canada did in early nineties,one buck rule,harvest more does in some areas
Zone three one buck rule,encourage doe harvest by reducing license prices,opening metro parks areas to hunting,more hunting access to private land through state lease similar to snowmobiling trails access and not paying for crop damage if land lords deny access for deer hunting.DNR has to take back hunting /trapping management from townships in the entire state and so on others,but us need to shut more does and let the bucks grow to be able to pass on some good genes.The tradition it’s hard to break,but I don’t think it’s satisfying to shut bucks that have antlers that look like hand fingers on top of the head and doe meat taste better anyway especially in the rut season .
These are all great recommendations, I wonder how we could really implement any of these, I think we have to start educating the public on these topics and hopefully the DNR can convince the NRC to make some changes...
Great video.
Thanks for taking the time to inform us.
I hunt both private and public and private land in zones 2 and 3.
I think when the farmers figured out they could make money leasing made it hard for the younger hunters to get interested in hunting because of the lack of access to desent hunting properties.I trade work for access on private land because I can't justify what these properties cost to lease. There needs to be more hunter access in southern MI.
Also to hard to get kids interested in hunting and actual learning to hunt and not spoon fed because of the lack of access, ambition, good mentors,and the price of equipment.
I believe the does only for youth season is the only good decision the NRC made.
I'm not happy with the decision they made to only allow does only for Liberty and disable hunters. What a slap in the face to these hunters that might not be able to get out and hunt the colder or harsher conditions of the later seasons because of their abilities
Unfortunately the area I hunt mostly in southern Michigan never rebounded from the EHD several years back. I don't see that many does mostly bucks crusing. Not the numbers I used too. No change to property or surrounding properties or hunting pressure.Last year the property only held 3 does that I woud see almost every hunt. But do see areas down here that are over run with deer.
I would love to see the state to go to a 1 buck rule. Not fond of the APR . Some areas the genetics aren't there. I have seen several older bucks, 3 to 4 year olds with racks that aren't within regs and probably won't ever amount to anything in western zone 2 in APR areas but still breeding and spreading there genetics.
Thanks for the response! Access is a major problem for me personally, I have to hunt public land, which is fine but its hard to take the kids out and have success on it. I could go either way on the doe only on the youth hunt, its fine but I dont think it matters tha t much, The disabled hunters thouh, making it buck only is a slap in the face! Id love to see 1 buck as well I just dont think it will happen given the current population of deer.
I am in favor of antler point restrictions across zone 3 and 2, it is shown to help. I think we need to really focus on doe harvest in zone 3 but we have major access problems in this zone. How can the DNR help create more access for hunters in zone 3 to help curb the large doe populations?
Unfortunately, I don’t think the NRC or DNR is going to change any rules that could potentially limit harvest or reduce tags sales, remember the NRC/DNR bring in revenue from those tag sales… and they want more deer taken, especially in zone 3 so limiting potential harvests seems counterproductive to the end goal of reducing the herd.
Great video man! Spot on. A group of us used to go to ohio and you can just see that they do a good job with there deer herd. Thanks for the video and have a good day
Thanks 👍
100% agree with everything you said there is way to many doe in Michigan and there is monsters here last year I shot a 180” 10 point I didn’t even know I had on my land
Oh yeah, there are big bucks here I just dont feel like they move a lot due to the pressure and the amount of does anymore, I feel like bucks dont have to search out does, the does just find them now.
I wonder how many vehicles are on the road now compared to 5 years ago? as far as deer vehile collisions go. Houses have poped up in rural areas everywhere, and now these people drive long commutes to work everyday. it definintely could be other issues at play other than deer population. my own area has 70 percent more house over the last 15 years and shows no sign of slowing down, and I am in agricultural area. roads that were orginally sparse of traffic now have people running 60 miles an hour getting from one town to the next. way more traffic !! And they are ripping it at night !
Well this whole thing in my opinion is really due to 2 things, urban expansion… Humans are taking away more land to live on so deer have less land but easier to survive and also less hunters and less harvest keeping it in check. With urban expansion comes easier lives for deer, less predators more supplemental feeding, but a crap ton more car accidents, like a lot. If public safety is being reduced the government is gonna step in and take out some deer.
It’s difficult to change trends such as trying to once again increase deer hunter numbers. Once people choose another hobby or leave hunting it’s difficult to get them back.
Usually, something has to become easier to enjoy before a change in trend can be realized.
A very controversial topic is baiting. While many people believe that it’s not needed, it does allow someone to see many more does on a smaller, and not necessarily agricultural, piece of property. It made it easier for someone to see more deer, feel the excitement of that animal being close, etc. And for someone to believe that they could recover the costs of the sport.
I don’t know any other easier way to recruit more hunters, than to allow baiting.
Yeah this makes a lot of sense, I just don’t understand why they are so obsessed with the baiting ban, It doesn’t seem to be a problem in a lot of other states that allow baiting, if they really wanted to have people be able to harvest more deer allowing bait would drastically up people success rates IMO. Baiting is the easiest way for someone to be able to harvest a deer. If had great success targeting larger bucks with bait as well deep in the swamp, you just have to setup the bait the right way. Thanks for the thoughtful response!
We’re out in Brooklyn not too far from you in Ann Arbor. Good luck to ya this season bud!
Thanks you too!
Hi. I like your video, and I agree with you on just about all of it, except about zone 2. I live in zone 2, and the way they do for doe management differs from county to county. For example, in Alpena county last year, you could get 12 doe tags for $5 each, but in Otsego county, you could only get 2 doe tags for $20 each. This is to encourage hunters to take does where they are over populated. On M32 that I drive for work on average, there are 3-4 does hit by cars each week. We have way to many does. Keep videos like this coming this had some good info in it.
thanks for sharing that! I didnt realize the still did that. Thats the TB area right?
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors they have had some cases of it. But I believe it isn't as bad as they make it out to be.
yeah I would agree....
The access to private land anymore is almost nonexistent. Gone are the days of knocking on the door and getting permission. It’s either pay a ton of money to lease or the people just don’t want you on the land because liability.
I agree sir, I asked 20 land owners last year and everone said no . I asked to lease and they said already under agreement, wouldnt even let me barter, not that i can afford a lease anyway!! hhaha
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors I’m 39 and out of high school I had close to 900 acres of private that I permission to hunt. That has since dwindled to 45 acres which I now own which is a blessing. So less hunters in combination with less access to private and public land is a bad recipe for deer populations.
Also I would imagine if someone is willing to pay
thousands of dollars on a lease. They are probably doing it to shoot a nice buck and not fill a bunch of doe tags. Which leads to even higher deer numbers. Just my opinion.
I'm from Chelsea, and saw my first velvet buck of the year about 2 weeks ago.
Shooter?
@@MichiganGreatOutdoors we had a record buck taken 2 yrs ago about 3 miles from my home.
I believe it!!
I would be more than glad to help the DNR with reporting. BUT...the only Interaction I had with a DNR officer-he was the most unprofessional POS I have ever ran into.
We do need a one -buck rule and maybe better land access like South Dakota.
That’s so unfortunate… Ive ran into the DNR like 3 times in my life and they were always super cool. Ya know they checked my license but that was it.
I was on the U.P. DMI team and one of my recommendations was going to 3 point restriction on the single tag up here. Idea is to create a better age class of bucks to have a better buck to doe ratio. The DNR had the info on the doe harvest, and the amount of people that harvested more than 5 does is dismill
I tried not to get too into the U.P. You guys have your own set of challenges, and I really don’t understand most of them. I think APR’s would help the overall herd. Did you feel like people aren’t harvesting a lot of does because the doe population is low?
Just a suggestion Though I am 73 I still work full time I monitor 12 channels . It took you exactly 3:30 to say number 1. I just don't have that kind of time..
Its a very long video I know... next one was shorter. Thanks for the constructive criticism! I love it, helps me dial in my content. Thanks again.
The rule changes to the limited hunts to does only is meant to reduce the deer population. Just as most of the changes are meant to do.
I just don’t think the DNR or NRC more so is going to do anything that could negatively impact harvest numbers, or tag sales. Bottom line is they want more deer taken and they need the tag sales to continue to bring revenue in. If we go 1 buck make them but 1 doe tag as well is my vote.
I agree to almost everything you said! The doe population is a huge issue! Maybe bringing the price of the doe tags down might help.
We should model our deer management similarly to Ohio!
Ohio and indiana seem to be getting it right!! Lower doe tags for sure!!!
The harvest has always been reported through the processors. Very few hunters process their own.
Last year the DNR was pushing hard to get people to harvest more does, PROBLEM is they made you pay full price for every tag. No thanks give me an incentive to purchase more doe tags!!
I just don’t think the DNR or NRC more so is going to do anything that could negatively impact harvest numbers, or tag sales. Bottom line is they want more deer taken and they need the tag sales to continue to bring revenue in. If we go 1 buck make them but 1 doe tag as well is my vote.
Good job! Facts where great.That 8% second buck tag success interesting.Im in Washtenaw also.Access in urban areas is possible they can close a park in Ann Arbor for contract sharpshooters at 3:00pm in January but not me for archery. I live 4 miles away.How about U of M property it's public for God's sake.
This entire video was 100% spot on.
Thank you, I appreciate that! Will do some more soon but keep them shorter.
Good video. I would love to see APRs in my zone (3). And also go back to 1 archery buck tag, and 1 firearm buck tag.
I would love to see APRS in zone 3 but its not going to happen anytime soon I believe… I think If we went out and harvested a ton of does in zone 3 it might be a possibility down the road but they wont restrict any harvests in areas with high deer populations, they want more deer taken, not less.
@MichiganGreatOutdoors last study i saw showed apr zones tend to harvest more does
Good information man.
Glad it was helpful!
You hit a key point about zone 3!
You talked about driving around and seeing a shit load of deer in the field! Well for the most part that's a huge parcel of land that's private owned and only 2 or 3 family members hunting it! These land owners have the mentality of MY deer and it's a lot of the problem.
I remember a time when you could stop and ask to hunt and usually even if for just that day would get a yes! Now it's a hard no or you have to sign a lease and fork out money to hunt. Im lucky and have a couple of private land places to hunt but most don't!
Yup!! I have zero permission properties.... Ive asked a ton of guys too and its always a stern no!
Even my brother in law who has 400+ acres won't let my brothers and I hunt because he's afraid we will shoot a bigger buck than he does 🙄 he will not shoot does either! it's insane and he claims to be a Republican! All this RUclips and social media crap these days about being a trophy hunter is ruining it to. It's about family and filling the freezer with delicious venison and doing our part to keep the heard in check. I took 6 deer last year and donated two to the food bank! That's the American way😎👊
I love the change in the youth hunt, and as far as everything else, they’re just trying to eliminate all the deer changing muzzleloader to every rifle you’re trying to eliminate the deer
they want more deer harvested.