Same age single. in my case sisters would put me in a nursing home ! Good old days as kids in the 50's early 60's having fun running Marx, & Lionel trains ! NONE OF THIS ELECTRONICS STUFF ! !
@@Thomas-y8r8i I picked up the Lionel Legacy 4-6-0 New Jersey Central for 720.00 before taxes it was worth the money and runs on 031 curves. I have a lot of stuff from the 50's and they run great.
I give Lionel 2 more years. Lionel knows that their customer base is dying off so they are sucking as much cash out of the survivors as they can. I see somebody like Atlas buying out the Lionel name and consolidating the high end of the O gauge market and somebody like Menards working the low end. There will be two players left standing, that is all.
@@johnblair8146 You may be right. MTH and Atlas will buy Lionel and will work the high end while Menards takes over everything else. In the end with Mike Wolf leaving the business, it will be Atlas with MTH and Lionel tooling. They will have their MTH and Lionel line making trains on Florence Ave. in Hillside, NJ, just blocks from the old Lionel factory.
@ Lionel has itself to blame. As soon as the previous MTH scaled back meaning less competition on prices for us consumers Lionel began slowly increasing prices while not resolving constant quality control issues, which still carry over to the present.NO DOUBT THE CLOSING SOME YEARS AGO OF K LINE & WEAVER HAS HURT US IN THE O gauge segment of model railroading. I doubt MTH will return to it's former self, however recent months have announced return of a # of engines not seen in years example Premier CN GP7'S in original Green / Yellow paint scheme. The MTH / ATLAS shared tooling arrangement a definite benefit for us O gaugers !
I’m pretty new at the hobby (3-4 years). Good thing I love finding good deals on post war / mpc era trains to refurbish and give a new life to because I will never be able to afford anything in this catalog. Lionel is pricing people out of their “new” train market for sure. Thanks for taking us through the catalog! Great job.
I totally agree with you! Lionel's prices are outrageous and (IMHO) have been for years. They've essentially priced themselves out of contention for how much I can justify spending to enjoy my favorite hobby. This is a trend I began noticing back in the 1990's. I really miss the K-Line company! They offered great quality products that (in most cases) were just as nice as Lionel's at more reasonable prices. Now I order the annual Lionel Christmas boxcar from Charles Ro Co. each year- but that has become the extent of my yearly new train purchases for the past 20 years or so! Sadly, everything I now buy comes (preowned) from eBay. 🚂😔
You are definitely not alone with your take on this catalog. Every RUclips channel I sub to is showing the same disgust at Lionel. Going to be interesting to see if they address the problems or just ignore them. Probably only if it hits their bottom line I will guess.
Thank you for calling out the Visionline Commodore Vanderbilts! I don't understand how they are considered visionline?? They seem like a regular legacy locomotive. I'm hoping to have my review up in a week.
Great video! The prices ARE out of control. As for the catalog overall….some nice ideas, some crazy, perhaps even under the influence decisions, and a couple home runs-if you don’t mind missing a second mortgage payment! Disappointing for American Flyer fans too. Good, honest review, with a good delivery.
Lionel has priced the little guy right out of the hobby! I have always ran conventional trains and enjoyed them. The new electronics are really cool, and have been a huge part of the recent success to the hobby. But with that being said, Lionel has gotten greedy with pricing, and have taken away the opportunity to own some of newest electronics, to a lot of us. I would like to see the younger generation continue our wonderful train hobby, but I don’t see it! Lionel please remember the younger generation, and the retired guy who is on a limited budget.
Been in this hobby for 65 years. I have Lionel from my father made in the early 1950's. More Lionel bought in the 1960's then really went to HO. Now 50 years later I am into G scale and back to Lionel. I am very picky about prices. I understand things appreciate but the prices on Ebay and the prices in these catalogues leave a lot to be desired. I have some good stuff and when I find something with a good price, I usually will buy it. Shame, I like this new stuff, but I will never pay that price even if I hit the lottery. It's a matter of principle to me. Keep up the videos, good work.
There isn’t one thing in that terrible catalog I would even want. I don’t need anymore trains, I’ve been collecting for 45 years and have more trains that I could run. I’d never pay those ridiculous prices
Agree insane price structure. Catalogs lately have been for amusement purpose only. Yes I like to look at the pictures and read about amazing features, however very few items I’m going to actually buy. We have a mix of LionChief (that I like very much-decent train for the money) MPC error, and some MTH. All run great and didn’t go broke buying. Lionel I’m afraid will lose its base customers.
The best thing to happen is to let Lionel trains sit in the warehouse. But some will still buy them, and Atlas & MTH is starting to go the same way. I won't pay those prices. Lionel thinks that people will pay anything for these trains.
Nice video, the only thing that will make the commodore vision is the black box it comes in. Thats what sticks out the most to me in this catalog. When they fist started making VL they would put 2 in the same book.
The. O. P. Needs to vote with his wallet. Thats what I do. For $300/car for 18" passenger car just pushed me yo Golden Gate Depot with correct window/door arrangements.
Great review. Lionel is making this great hobby only for the wealthy people. I don't understand how this company is trying to reach the younger generation with these prices. They are the main reason why this hobby on this particular scale is going away. Thanks for the great review Even though it's upsetting.
100% agreement with you. They cannot get the descriptions correct in the catalog (see the AA description under the B unit). What are the odds they can get the actual model correct. Thanks for sharing.
This was by far one of the worst Lionel books ever created. I can't see Lionel staying alive for another 125 years. MTH, though, on the other hand, is planning to make some all new product. I can't talk about it, but keep an eye out.
You kidding me! “You kidding me!” Another 125 years! How about one year. The dealer network can go out of business from the decisions being made by the overpriced non-innovative clowns in charge of Lionel.
Coming from someone that mainly does HO, the only thing that I think would be worth your money in that catalog would be the Trainmasters because it has been a while since they have done the Trainmasters. With the newer electronics of legacy and road specific details, the price makes sense, but since the locomotive is basically a giant brick, they could have at least put Bluetooth control and/or have made it a LionChief 2+ with a remote.
The Ready-to-Play sets from around the 34 min mark are durable plastic. And if a smoke unit is fitted, it's water vapour. As for the points (as we call them), you'll need to make sure they are accurately aligned with the track for thr direction set. Also the gauge of the track for most Ready-to-Play is about 53 mm, not O gauge. These Ready-to-Play aren't really that light, especially ehen the batteries are in.
30:37 *"that is the price of a lionel legacy steam engine"* That's true! The new Lionchief pacific is the exact same price as the 2021 Legacy American Flyer S Gauge pacifics. *They're also more expensive than almost every American Flyer steam locomotive made in the past 20 years...* Lionchief is slowly becoming more expensive than most of American Flyer, never thought I'd ever see that happen
I think this a great review and definitely agree with your views on pricing. The use of new and all new wording for past tooling on reissued items is a gimmicky. The items selected for this 125th anniversary catalog are lacking. It’s becoming a close out secondary market hobby. Disappointed.
Totally agree. The only thing I’m tempted by is the patch-out UP/SP SD40, but man, $750! Lionel has _never_ been a bargain brand though. I think it was RJ’s Trains the other day who was showing some postwar locomotives and saying things like, “In 1950, this would have cost $95.” Whip out the inflation calculator and that’s nearly $1k today, and for conventional control, nothing fancy. That’s why my Dad had one Lionel locomotive and a few cars, but a pile of Marx gear. If you wanted good prices, you didn’t buy Lionel. 😂
$299 for a ScaleTrains HO Scale ES44AC with DCC/Sound, which is the pinnacle for the state of the art in model railroading, versus, Lionel charging $264 for a plastic auto rack!!? Lionel is finished…
I don’t know why Lionel didn’t just release some more postwar styled, traditional LionChief sets, like the Prairie Freight set with the newly tooled ‘675’ K4. That would’ve been a perfect way for them to celebrate an anniversary like this.
Speaking of the 675 K4, notice how this year the set with passenger cars is $550 MSRP. Last year, the freight version was only $430. That’s a 28% jump with just changing to lighted, postwar style cars. That’s getting greedy
@ From what I heard, it’s common for Lionel passenger trains to be more expensive than their freight trains. That being said, that price tag doesn’t fit with a regular LionChief train set. Actually, the Super Chief is $500. But even then, this passenger set is not as impressive as the Super Chief.
I agree that lionel raising the prices of their items is ridiculous. Comparing some of their products to mth its crazy with the price difference. $550 for two cars is not worth it since mth released in the past 4 car passenger sets for about $100 less than that and even their two packs is less than half the price of the lionel ones. It just makes no sense why they need to raise the price on these cars or even the locomotives. Like $650-750 for a diesel now is completely crazy since mth and atlas makes theirs for $100-250 less and you get more detail with them than the lionel ones. I would understand if they made them diecast then i would say the price is more than expected but for a model with a plastic body is way too overpriced. But yea in the end i am rather disappointed with the new lionel catalog. It just feels like they overhyped it too much for their 125th anniversary.
We all were let down on this one. The selection was not the greatest. Here’s my take if they were planning this postwar theme they should have did a small section. Vision line should be the one and only ! What’s next vision line fast track ? I think if your going to charge a 1k for a passenger set put passengers and get rid of the clam shell plastic. I can buy older sets or MTH which cost a fraction and come in better boxes !! Lion chief is entry and if you’re going to charge that , you need more options and features! Volume 2 better get it together. I think all of us o gauge guys feel that catalog was missing something. I’m going to Amherst and honestly I don’t know if I can even go up to their booth without asking them who’s responsible for that catalog.
I’ve only been in the hobby for a few years but (to me) the locomotive prices look to be on par with what I have seen during that time. There are a couple of exceptions but I think some new tech has been added in those cases. The stuff that has gone up dramatically in my eyes seems to be the middle-tier stuff, like passenger cars and anything with a bit of tech (rail sounds, etc). I will admit that $1,200 for the conventional set seems a bit nuts though.
A bit of tech that has already been engineered and produced before should not warrant these price increases. Yea if it was something cutting edge, or maybe even sounds we haven’t heard before. If you are suppose to be the leader in o scale trains, act like it. Don’t just give us products from the same tooling you already own and act like it’s something new. I’m glad this time around more people have spoken up about this.
From what I have seen in my limited experience, Lionel is not really in the habit of getting cheaper, even when tooling has been paid for on previous models. The low-end LionChief models got a bit cheaper but that is likely more due to Menards starting to cut into the market… and that’s really the only thing that I can think of in my time in the hobby that Lionel got cheaper on. All that said, the probable Tarrifs that are about to go into effect on stuff from China is something that is particularly dangerous to Lionel, due to cataloging their prices almost a year from the shelf date. By the time this stuff reaches stores, we could be knee-deep in a tariff war, which could destroy any chance at profit based on prices that are being set now… so it’s probably safer for them to price a bit high anyway.
@ understandable. Now if Lionel announced that they were going to start manufacturing their trains in the United States, and keep these high prices, I might be singing a different tune. I know it can’t happen all at once, but if the tariffs do what they’re intended to, maybe we’ll get some manufacturing back to the states. It would be great to see some of our once booming industrial cities back on their feet! Again, it would take time, probably longer than my lifetime, but it’s a great future for our country, and the next generation!
I was never particularly a fan of moving any production for anything outside of the US (as I grew up in a union family) but I fear that it’s basically too late to turn back now. That’s a much deeper conversation though and I would rather steer back towards trains. Sadly, I believe it’s reasonable to say that if Lionel moved it all back to the US, we would really miss the current high prices… because prices would probably almost double if manufactured in the US.
The O.P. is giving an apples to oranges comparison when it comes to Autoracks. Atlas O autoracks are either MTH 70ft cars OR the scale 2010+ modern autorack while the Lionel scale autoracks are mid 1970's to 1990's
I did order the Hudson freight train, but I grumbled about the price for a while, LOL! But heck, with these prices I figured I should get something, because this will be Lionel's last anniversary... they are literally just begging for a big competitor to pop up. I could even swallow these prices if they were making these in the US... I would be like "Sure, you have to pay people a livable wage", but all this crap is coming from China where there are absolutely no real labor laws and they are making this stuff so cheap! As someone who deals with importers, I know the real cost of lots of things from China... lets just say, Lionel is expecting to live off less sales with higher profit margins.
Whoa! My bad! Was watching another review and I commented disparagingly about the $800 conventional set. Now learning it's $1100 WTF???? I saw a comment that referenced the possible tarrifs coming up after the inauguration. Maybe there's something to that..😮😮😮
What's with prices as of late? N scale has it, Ho has it BAD (DCC with sound costing more than DCC silent, etc), and O scale...and it does seem like it's these older manufactures specifically, and yes I'm aware that some of the newer manufactures are doing this too.
I have ALWAYS found lionel O scale very expensive. I'm an HO guy so right out of the gate paying 500 bucks for something that isn't powered and full of detail blows my mind lol. But I do understand the size makes a difference. However lionel is running on their name with those prices.....its Ludacris to pay that money these days.
No vision from the VisionLine boys. Yet again. Poor management over the last five years. No innovation whatsoever. I feel sorry for the Lionel dealers who will suffer badly from the lowest sales in history from this catalog. Rehash for the 125 year catalog. The die-cast ES 44s from 2010 would have been nice. I might and I say again, I might buy one engine. The price increases year in and again are unjustified as are the multiple quality control failures each year. It will not take long now for this Lionel management team to send Lionel to the graveyard of history.
I think Lionel should just be making the classic stuff they made in the 20th century, their Premier line doesn’t impress me 1 bit and I think MTH makes WAYYYY better detailed premier products than what Lionel makes, and their quality has really dropped. I have their old stuff from the 20th century but I prefer HO and N, and American Models S.
Brian is gotta agree with you all the way those prices are ridiculous and theyll say well inflation is high everything going up well the truth is is price gouging and someone needs to take over lionel that will severely lower those prices and those commodore trains imo are really ugly to me and the highest ive paid for a train was the VL BB 4014 it was around $2,600 from train world and i highly doubt ill be getting anything from that overpriced catalog but dont let that bother ya or your health and take care of yourself buddy 👍 -brandon
My honest opinion is I haven’t been impressed the newest locomotive out of the latest catalogs I purchased was the legacy polar express which as a college student I’m still paying for that. I also don’t have 0-72 so I can’t run big steam. The only purchase will be either the LionChief navy set for my dad or the Star Wars empire set. Just miss the smaller legacy steam locomotives
Yeah, these prices are hard to wrap my head around. BUT, it’s not the cost of production, or gouging - the real culprit driving the seemingly unreasonable increase is the upcoming tariffs with China. Estimates from some economists have import prices rising 60%. That $2,000 train would be $1,250 absent the China tariffs - still high, but much more palatable. Lionel is baking those into their 125 Anniversary Catalog so they don’t have a massive financial loss once they start paying the tariffs. It’s actually very smart and proactive on Lionel’s part. As for the product offerings, I think the catalog misses the mark for sure with most of the products being offered. Lionel has lost my confidence in being able to get production paint to match the catalog or prototypes. A big wait and see for me. Last point on prices - if you think the ones in the catalog are high, just wait and see what custom runs will cost.
Well all I can say about this is if you are anything like me just take all your old trains and just add dcc to them and you in the game I’m just saying
It’s very refreshing to see RUclipsrs who don’t bootlick Lionel to death. The amount of times I’ve heard “Well they are expensive to manufacture” or “you’re missing the point” is so unbelievable! I can’t imagine defending such truly insulting prices even if I was rich!!! I wonder if these prices reflect Lionel possibly going under. Which as sad as that is, I’m angry enough at these prices I’d consider that justified. MTH makes trains with just as much detail and features for wayyyy cheaper. Something must be going on at Lionel for them to charge what they are charging this time around. I wish Lionel would realize that appealing to a broader audience (by lowering prices) would make them more money in the long run, and repair their horrible image they currently hold outside of us o gauge fans. Absolutely boycott worthy stuff here.
Yeah it's the WORST. Only a Star Wars Fanatic would love this Catalog. But they would be Broke if they purchased one of every item as Lionel just flooded the Hobby with way to much Star Wars. $230 for a Handcar is Absurd. And just look at the Price Tag on that Lionel Scout. 125 Years in the Hobby and their 125th Anniversary, Lionel sure ain't giving anything back to everyone who supports them. They've only Jacked Up their Prices even more. Sooner or Later they are gonna bust this Hobby because the average person cannot afford anything Lionel.
3.6k with for a set with only 5 passenger cars (when the picture shows 6) and “vision line autoracks” because they have lights (cool but why vision line?) and the Heisler prices… lol😅
The commodore is a Legacy engine......barely lol. I think Lionel thinks peoples love of the history is enough for them to empty their bank accounts. I think they might learn a lesson on this catalog.(hoping actually).
Thanks for calling out the big "L" on the prices they have set on these pieces. I've been weary of their prices for several years now. Single pieces of rolling stock (that don't do anything) listing for near or at $100? Really? Now we see passenger cars at $250? Non-powered dummy units $450 WTF? Who are they targeting with these prices? What will amaze me more are the various dickheads out there who will argue to justify these prices. As K-Line, Weaver and Williams died off and MTH downsized, you could see this coming.
Great catalog review Lionel is the worst value in model railroading today. Prices were already outrageous going into this catalog, but now it's comical....they think we are a bunch of idiots. Guggenheim Partners are trying to squeeze every penny out of Lionel before they sell it or completely destroy it. I was all set before, but now there is no possibility I will buy any of this crap.
I hear these comments every time Lionel releases a catalog!! Do you really think Lionel cares about how you feel about their pricing?? If you can't afford it, don't buy it!!! Lionel isn't going out of business because their products aren't in your price range! Remember this, there is a certain segment of the O gauge community who will support and buy Lionel products regardless of the price. This catalog is for them!!!
Please don’t get me wrong here.. I absolutely CAN afford these trains. But see I have a brain, and I have thoughts. I do like to use my brain from time to time (my wife, and kids would beg to differ). For Lionel to already ENGINEER, and OWN the tooling on many of the products you see here in this catalog, and then to charge what they are charging is just a insult to people that CANT afford them, and a gouge on people that CAN.
@@realtoytrains , Again it doesn't matter what you or I think, Lionel is going to charge what they want to and they DON"T CARE whether you agree with the pricing or not! Somebody somewhere in the O gauge community is buying these products at MSRP and they don't care about the prices! People say "I'm not buying Lionel products", but they buy them anyway. I CAN AFFORD to buy ANYTHING in this catalog...if I want to, but I really don't see anything that I like, but I'm not going to bash them about their prices! Why? because as a consumer, I have a choice...to either buy the product or not. And if you research Lionel from years past, their products has ALWAYS been priced HIGH. This catalog pricing is nothing new from Lionel!!
@@realtoytrains One other thing, it's not an insult or a "gouge" on people who can or can't afford Lionel's products. Everyone still has a choice...to either buy them or not. Trust and believe, Lionel DOESN'T CARE either way......
@@realtoytrains , No I don't but this is the thing, when has Lionel prices been affordable? NEVER!! But the real issue is this, young families can't afford new O scale trains because of the pricing! That is why young families go with Thomas the Tank or get an app onto a tablet or phone and let their children build the model railroad of their dreams. Today's O scale trains are for those who were born in the 50's, 60's 70's and 80's who want to relive their childhood and couldn't afford those trains because of raising families or financial situations during that time. Today's model trains are for those who have disposable income to afford these trains. Now Menards is affordable trains, but you sacrifice quantity for quality. As time goes on Lionel and the other manufacturers will continue to raise their prices and the buyer will have the same choice...to either buy them or not......
You know the licensing and buying the rights to use Disney, Barbie, Star Wars, Harry Potter etc. is probably millions of dollars?? I think Lionel having The Polar Express was a great idea and Thomas. But then came Harry Potter (i do like the British outline train) but the others i think its excessive and it looks like they are going down a marketing hole. Maybe the other trains are getting a higher msrp to make up for the licensing rights ?
I’m not paying 349.00$ for nothing that can’t move on it’s own power just for some led lights I can buy out the dollar store and glue on myself if we stop buying it they will stop doing it
I can understand vision line being expensive but $80 for a battery operated train set? $400 for an ho scale train set that uses old tooling? Lionel needs to chill out. I’m tired of them pricing even things that are for a younger audience around the triple digits. Meanwhile their HO scale competitor Bachman still has a decent selection of train sets that are around 100 and the ones that are more expensive actually feel justified.
This is why I will go to the second hand market.I thought lioncheif was to be lower priced trains.Not any more. What the hell is with lionel.You people out there take your money elsewhere to buy trains.
This 2025 catalog is a disappointment from last year’s catalog from the vantage point of truly new items being offered with new tooling. Also, 75% of the new items are fantasy models, in addition to Halloween and Christmas paint schemes. Lionel sells more fantasy models than any prototypical accurate paint schemes on their models. Too many fantasy schemes diminish diversity in offering more real road-name paint schemes on their rolling stock. Also, the new list prices are escalating out of control. Are new tariffs on Chinese made imports contributing to increases in price? There is a point of no return by falsely inflating prices. Customers will be shopping elsewhere. I believe comparable new MTH models are much less per similar item.
@realtoytrains I tried. I really did. You put out a video where every reaction was over the top, I can only assume you just wanted to register outrage, so good work. Sorry you didn't like the catalog and everything is too expensive for you. Luckily you don't have to buy anything from it!
Ridiculous !! I'm like you. I looked at this and scratched my head. Everything is overpriced as far as I'm concerned. I'll stick with the tried and true postwar that was made in America and will last a lifetime. Just bought a beautiful ABA 2344 New York Central f3 set for $350 . All day long compared to this stuff
Nowadays a boxcar can cost about a hundred dollars.And thats just one boxcar.The prices will make even people.With some what deeo pockets think twice.I think this is gonna turn a lot off people off.And look elsewhere for their trains. of
Keep the comments coming!! Dont hold back let me or LIONEL know what you think. I’m loving hearing from you all!!
Love that there are some people on here that are being real.
@@Tattooedtrains thank you!
I'm 71 years old and retired, If a bought an engine for 1,900 dollars my kids would put me in a nursing home.
Same age single. in my case sisters would put me in a nursing home !
Good old days as kids in the 50's early 60's having fun running Marx, & Lionel trains ! NONE OF THIS ELECTRONICS STUFF ! !
@@Thomas-y8r8i I picked up the Lionel Legacy 4-6-0 New Jersey Central for 720.00 before taxes it was worth the money and runs on 031 curves. I have a lot of stuff from the 50's and they run great.
I give Lionel 2 more years. Lionel knows that their customer base is dying off so they are sucking as much cash out of the survivors as they can. I see somebody like Atlas buying out the Lionel name and consolidating the high end of the O gauge market and somebody like Menards working the low end. There will be two players left standing, that is all.
@@johnblair8146
You may be right. MTH and Atlas will buy Lionel and will work the high end while Menards takes over everything else. In the end with Mike Wolf leaving the business, it will be Atlas with MTH and Lionel tooling. They will have their MTH and Lionel line making trains on Florence Ave. in Hillside, NJ, just blocks from the old Lionel factory.
@ Lionel has itself to blame. As soon as the previous MTH scaled back meaning less competition on prices for us consumers Lionel began slowly increasing prices while not resolving constant quality control issues, which still carry over to the present.NO DOUBT THE CLOSING SOME YEARS AGO OF K LINE & WEAVER HAS HURT US IN THE O gauge segment of model railroading.
I doubt MTH will return to it's former self, however recent months have announced return of a # of engines not seen in years example Premier CN GP7'S in original Green / Yellow paint scheme.
The MTH / ATLAS shared tooling arrangement a definite benefit for us O gaugers !
I’m pretty new at the hobby (3-4 years). Good thing I love finding good deals on post war / mpc era trains to refurbish and give a new life to because I will never be able to afford anything in this catalog. Lionel is pricing people out of their “new” train market for sure. Thanks for taking us through the catalog! Great job.
I totally agree with you! Lionel's prices are outrageous and (IMHO) have been for years. They've essentially priced themselves out of contention for how much I can justify spending to enjoy my favorite hobby. This is a trend I began noticing back in the 1990's. I really miss the K-Line company! They offered great quality products that (in most cases) were just as nice as Lionel's at more reasonable prices. Now I order the annual Lionel Christmas boxcar from Charles Ro Co. each year- but that has become the extent of my yearly new train purchases for the past 20 years or so! Sadly, everything I now buy comes (preowned) from eBay. 🚂😔
Lionel has no competition.
Cool Video! That's Why Menard's are doing Trains Now! About Time Someone did Something to lower prices!
I notice that the low end LionChief engines actually got cheaper this year. I suspect that it’s due to the competition from Menards.
You are definitely not alone with your take on this catalog. Every RUclips channel I sub to is showing the same disgust at Lionel. Going to be interesting to see if they address the problems or just ignore them. Probably only if it hits their bottom line I will guess.
Thank you for calling out the Visionline Commodore Vanderbilts! I don't understand how they are considered visionline?? They seem like a regular legacy locomotive. I'm hoping to have my review up in a week.
A+ for your presentation sir. G- for the Lionel Trains 125th Anniversary Catalog.
Great video! The prices ARE out of control. As for the catalog overall….some nice ideas, some crazy, perhaps even under the influence decisions, and a couple home runs-if you don’t mind missing a second mortgage payment! Disappointing for American Flyer fans too. Good, honest review, with a good delivery.
Lionel has priced the little guy right out of the hobby! I have always ran conventional trains and enjoyed them. The new electronics are really cool, and have been a huge part of the recent success to the hobby. But with that being said, Lionel has gotten greedy with pricing, and have taken away the opportunity to own some of newest electronics, to a lot of us. I would like to see the younger generation continue our wonderful train hobby, but I don’t see it! Lionel please remember the younger generation, and the retired guy who is on a limited budget.
First video I’ve seen of yours, and you just got a new subscriber!
Been in this hobby for 65 years. I have Lionel from my father made in the early 1950's. More Lionel bought in the 1960's then really went to HO. Now 50 years later I am into G scale and back to Lionel. I am very picky about prices. I understand things appreciate but the prices on Ebay and the prices in these catalogues leave a lot to be desired. I have some good stuff and when I find something with a good price, I usually will buy it. Shame, I like this new stuff, but I will never pay that price even if I hit the lottery. It's a matter of principle to me. Keep up the videos, good work.
There isn’t one thing in that terrible catalog I would even want. I don’t need anymore trains, I’ve been collecting for 45 years and have more trains that I could run. I’d never pay those ridiculous prices
I agree that they are pricing is out of control
Agree insane price structure.
Catalogs lately have been for amusement purpose only.
Yes I like to look at the pictures and read about amazing features, however very few items I’m going to actually buy.
We have a mix of LionChief (that I like very much-decent train for the money) MPC error, and some MTH. All run great and didn’t go broke buying.
Lionel I’m afraid will lose its base customers.
The best thing to happen is to let Lionel trains sit in the warehouse. But some will still buy them, and Atlas & MTH is starting to go the same way. I won't pay those prices. Lionel thinks that people will pay anything for these trains.
Your absolutely correct! Not only our their prices up, quality is down.
well we have priced ourselves out of manufacturing anything here and everything is made in china so this is our lives
Nice video, the only thing that will make the commodore vision is the black box it comes in. Thats what sticks out the most to me in this catalog. When they fist started making VL they would put 2 in the same book.
100% agree with the prices, extremely high. We need to buy ftom the others manufacturers like bud light
The. O. P. Needs to vote with his wallet. Thats what I do.
For $300/car for 18" passenger car just pushed me yo Golden Gate Depot with correct window/door arrangements.
Great review. Lionel is making this great hobby only for the wealthy people. I don't understand how this company is trying to reach the younger generation with these prices. They are the main reason why this hobby on this particular scale is going away. Thanks for the great review Even though it's upsetting.
100% agreement with you. They cannot get the descriptions correct in the catalog (see the AA description under the B unit). What are the odds they can get the actual model correct. Thanks for sharing.
You can probably buy over 200 ho scale locomotives with a 3,000dallors
A shame they didn't bring back all the operating accessories
Your 100% right. It’s a disappointing catalog and the price are getting ridiculous. I would have thought Lionel would have done a better job.
This was by far one of the worst Lionel books ever created. I can't see Lionel staying alive for another 125 years. MTH, though, on the other hand, is planning to make some all new product. I can't talk about it, but keep an eye out.
You kidding me! “You kidding me!” Another 125 years! How about one year. The dealer network can go out of business from the decisions being made by the overpriced non-innovative clowns in charge of Lionel.
MTH needs to take back the model train market. Make MTH Great Again!
They do need to take back the crown that they rightly deserve.
#purplebox4life
Coming from someone that mainly does HO, the only thing that I think would be worth your money in that catalog would be the Trainmasters because it has been a while since they have done the Trainmasters. With the newer electronics of legacy and road specific details, the price makes sense, but since the locomotive is basically a giant brick, they could have at least put Bluetooth control and/or have made it a LionChief 2+ with a remote.
Got a good laugh at the awake now part. Good video on a bad catalog brother
Regards to the scale Trainmasters, the shell will be the same as the CCII Demo models.
The Ready-to-Play sets from around the 34 min mark are durable plastic. And if a smoke unit is fitted, it's water vapour.
As for the points (as we call them), you'll need to make sure they are accurately aligned with the track for thr direction set.
Also the gauge of the track for most Ready-to-Play is about 53 mm, not O gauge.
These Ready-to-Play aren't really that light, especially ehen the batteries are in.
Time will tell..
30:37 *"that is the price of a lionel legacy steam engine"*
That's true! The new Lionchief pacific is the exact same price as the 2021 Legacy American Flyer S Gauge pacifics.
*They're also more expensive than almost every American Flyer steam locomotive made in the past 20 years...*
Lionchief is slowly becoming more expensive than most of American Flyer, never thought I'd ever see that happen
I think this a great review and definitely agree with your views on pricing. The use of new and all new wording for past tooling on reissued items is a gimmicky. The items selected for this 125th anniversary catalog are lacking. It’s becoming a close out secondary market hobby. Disappointed.
Can’t say I’m mad about it but nothing jumped out at me that really made me interested
Totally agree. The only thing I’m tempted by is the patch-out UP/SP SD40, but man, $750! Lionel has _never_ been a bargain brand though. I think it was RJ’s Trains the other day who was showing some postwar locomotives and saying things like, “In 1950, this would have cost $95.” Whip out the inflation calculator and that’s nearly $1k today, and for conventional control, nothing fancy. That’s why my Dad had one Lionel locomotive and a few cars, but a pile of Marx gear. If you wanted good prices, you didn’t buy Lionel. 😂
I prefer anything from the postwar era to the outrages stuff in the catalogue
$299 for a ScaleTrains HO Scale ES44AC with DCC/Sound, which is the pinnacle for the state of the art in model railroading, versus, Lionel charging $264 for a plastic auto rack!!? Lionel is finished…
That’s very interesting…
I agree with you Brian, this catalog is definitely lacking to say the least.
I don’t know why Lionel didn’t just release some more postwar styled, traditional LionChief sets, like the Prairie Freight set with the newly tooled ‘675’ K4. That would’ve been a perfect way for them to celebrate an anniversary like this.
Speaking of the 675 K4, notice how this year the set with passenger cars is $550 MSRP. Last year, the freight version was only $430. That’s a 28% jump with just changing to lighted, postwar style cars. That’s getting greedy
@ From what I heard, it’s common for Lionel passenger trains to be more expensive than their freight trains. That being said, that price tag doesn’t fit with a regular LionChief train set. Actually, the Super Chief is $500. But even then, this passenger set is not as impressive as the Super Chief.
Postwar style passenger cars that Lionel has already tooled MANY of times! It doesn’t make sense.
A $110 for a mobile home with LEDs?!! This is old MTH tooling that sold for $55 when they had them in their catalogs.
P.T. Barnum is alive and well and living in Concord, N.C.
I agree that lionel raising the prices of their items is ridiculous. Comparing some of their products to mth its crazy with the price difference. $550 for two cars is not worth it since mth released in the past 4 car passenger sets for about $100 less than that and even their two packs is less than half the price of the lionel ones. It just makes no sense why they need to raise the price on these cars or even the locomotives. Like $650-750 for a diesel now is completely crazy since mth and atlas makes theirs for $100-250 less and you get more detail with them than the lionel ones. I would understand if they made them diecast then i would say the price is more than expected but for a model with a plastic body is way too overpriced. But yea in the end i am rather disappointed with the new lionel catalog. It just feels like they overhyped it too much for their 125th anniversary.
We all were let down on this one. The selection was not the greatest. Here’s my take if they were planning this postwar theme they should have did a small section. Vision line should be the one and only ! What’s next vision line fast track ? I think if your going to charge a 1k for a passenger set put passengers and get rid of the clam shell plastic. I can buy older sets or MTH which cost a fraction and come in better boxes !! Lion chief is entry and if you’re going to charge that , you need more options and features! Volume 2 better get it together. I think all of us o gauge guys feel that catalog was missing something. I’m going to Amherst and honestly I don’t know if I can even go up to their booth without asking them who’s responsible for that catalog.
Great well thought out comment!
I agree those Lionel guys might be hanging their heads, or they’ll act like dentists 🤣
They could have at least added the cylinder steam on their vanderbilts
Yes!!! Hey now we’re thinking!
Wow iam at a loss of words.
I’ve only been in the hobby for a few years but (to me) the locomotive prices look to be on par with what I have seen during that time. There are a couple of exceptions but I think some new tech has been added in those cases.
The stuff that has gone up dramatically in my eyes seems to be the middle-tier stuff, like passenger cars and anything with a bit of tech (rail sounds, etc).
I will admit that $1,200 for the conventional set seems a bit nuts though.
A bit of tech that has already been engineered and produced before should not warrant these price increases. Yea if it was something cutting edge, or maybe even sounds we haven’t heard before. If you are suppose to be the leader in o scale trains, act like it. Don’t just give us products from the same tooling you already own and act like it’s something new.
I’m glad this time around more people have spoken up about this.
From what I have seen in my limited experience, Lionel is not really in the habit of getting cheaper, even when tooling has been paid for on previous models. The low-end LionChief models got a bit cheaper but that is likely more due to Menards starting to cut into the market… and that’s really the only thing that I can think of in my time in the hobby that Lionel got cheaper on.
All that said, the probable Tarrifs that are about to go into effect on stuff from China is something that is particularly dangerous to Lionel, due to cataloging their prices almost a year from the shelf date. By the time this stuff reaches stores, we could be knee-deep in a tariff war, which could destroy any chance at profit based on prices that are being set now… so it’s probably safer for them to price a bit high anyway.
@ understandable. Now if Lionel announced that they were going to start manufacturing their trains in the United States, and keep these high prices, I might be singing a different tune. I know it can’t happen all at once, but if the tariffs do what they’re intended to, maybe we’ll get some manufacturing back to the states. It would be great to see some of our once booming industrial cities back on their feet! Again, it would take time, probably longer than my lifetime, but it’s a great future for our country, and the next generation!
I was never particularly a fan of moving any production for anything outside of the US (as I grew up in a union family) but I fear that it’s basically too late to turn back now. That’s a much deeper conversation though and I would rather steer back towards trains.
Sadly, I believe it’s reasonable to say that if Lionel moved it all back to the US, we would really miss the current high prices… because prices would probably almost double if manufactured in the US.
yep, amen bro
You’d think they would’ve hit it out of the park for their 125th year but I haven’t seen anyone yet that thinks they did. The prices 🤯
I ordered a J1E but I have a TMCC Commodore and Dreyfuss, I MIGHT go for a S2 but still, its OUTRAGEOUS!!!
Your absolutely right way to expensive 👍
lol that’s how I felt about the new 1225 set was a real joke
The O.P. is giving an apples to oranges comparison when it comes to Autoracks. Atlas O autoracks are either MTH 70ft cars OR the scale 2010+ modern autorack while the Lionel scale autoracks are mid 1970's to 1990's
I did order the Hudson freight train, but I grumbled about the price for a while, LOL! But heck, with these prices I figured I should get something, because this will be Lionel's last anniversary... they are literally just begging for a big competitor to pop up. I could even swallow these prices if they were making these in the US... I would be like "Sure, you have to pay people a livable wage", but all this crap is coming from China where there are absolutely no real labor laws and they are making this stuff so cheap! As someone who deals with importers, I know the real cost of lots of things from China... lets just say, Lionel is expecting to live off less sales with higher profit margins.
The BASE3 went up by $100. Order it soon before dealers follow suit on their prices.
Whoa! My bad! Was watching another review and I commented disparagingly about the $800 conventional set. Now learning it's $1100 WTF???? I saw a comment that referenced the possible tarrifs coming up after the inauguration. Maybe there's something to that..😮😮😮
What's with prices as of late? N scale has it, Ho has it BAD (DCC with sound costing more than DCC silent, etc), and O scale...and it does seem like it's these older manufactures specifically, and yes I'm aware that some of the newer manufactures are doing this too.
A Middle Fork Heisler and the Chessie System items will be purchased 👍
I have ALWAYS found lionel O scale very expensive.
I'm an HO guy so right out of the gate paying 500 bucks for something that isn't powered and full of detail blows my mind lol.
But I do understand the size makes a difference.
However lionel is running on their name with those prices.....its Ludacris to pay that money these days.
No vision from the VisionLine boys. Yet again. Poor management over the last five years. No innovation whatsoever. I feel sorry for the Lionel dealers who will suffer badly from the lowest sales in history from this catalog. Rehash for the 125 year catalog. The die-cast ES 44s from 2010 would have been nice. I might and I say again, I might buy one engine. The price increases year in and again are unjustified as are the multiple quality control failures each year. It will not take long now for this Lionel management team to send Lionel to the graveyard of history.
I think Lionel should just be making the classic stuff they made in the 20th century, their Premier line doesn’t impress me 1 bit and I think MTH makes WAYYYY better detailed premier products than what Lionel makes, and their quality has really dropped. I have their old stuff from the 20th century but I prefer HO and N, and American Models S.
I wonder if these prices are a preemptive response to Trump’s tariffs.🤔
Brian is gotta agree with you all the way those prices are ridiculous and theyll say well inflation is high everything going up well the truth is is price gouging and someone needs to take over lionel that will severely lower those prices and those commodore trains imo are really ugly to me and the highest ive paid for a train was the VL BB 4014 it was around $2,600 from train world and i highly doubt ill be getting anything from that overpriced catalog but dont let that bother ya or your health and take care of yourself buddy 👍 -brandon
The prices are outrageous
My honest opinion is I haven’t been impressed the newest locomotive out of the latest catalogs I purchased was the legacy polar express which as a college student I’m still paying for that. I also don’t have 0-72 so I can’t run big steam. The only purchase will be either the LionChief navy set for my dad or the Star Wars empire set. Just miss the smaller legacy steam locomotives
Yeah, these prices are hard to wrap my head around. BUT, it’s not the cost of production, or gouging - the real culprit driving the seemingly unreasonable increase is the upcoming tariffs with China. Estimates from some economists have import prices rising 60%. That $2,000 train would be $1,250 absent the China tariffs - still high, but much more palatable. Lionel is baking those into their 125 Anniversary Catalog so they don’t have a massive financial loss once they start paying the tariffs. It’s actually very smart and proactive on Lionel’s part. As for the product offerings, I think the catalog misses the mark for sure with most of the products being offered. Lionel has lost my confidence in being able to get production paint to match the catalog or prototypes. A big wait and see for me. Last point on prices - if you think the ones in the catalog are high, just wait and see what custom runs will cost.
Well all I can say about this is if you are anything like me just take all your old trains and just add dcc to them and you in the game I’m just saying
It’s very refreshing to see RUclipsrs who don’t bootlick Lionel to death. The amount of times I’ve heard “Well they are expensive to manufacture” or “you’re missing the point” is so unbelievable! I can’t imagine defending such truly insulting prices even if I was rich!!! I wonder if these prices reflect Lionel possibly going under. Which as sad as that is, I’m angry enough at these prices I’d consider that justified. MTH makes trains with just as much detail and features for wayyyy cheaper. Something must be going on at Lionel for them to charge what they are charging this time around. I wish Lionel would realize that appealing to a broader audience (by lowering prices) would make them more money in the long run, and repair their horrible image they currently hold outside of us o gauge fans. Absolutely boycott worthy stuff here.
I have the real American made Lionel train it’s the nyc water level freight set with the Lionel nyc 3000 Mohawk
Yeah it's the WORST. Only a Star Wars Fanatic would love this Catalog. But they would be Broke if they purchased one of every item as Lionel just flooded the Hobby with way to much Star Wars.
$230 for a Handcar is Absurd. And just look at the Price Tag on that Lionel Scout. 125 Years in the Hobby and their 125th Anniversary, Lionel sure ain't giving anything back to everyone who supports them. They've only Jacked Up their Prices even more. Sooner or Later they are gonna bust this Hobby because the average person cannot afford anything Lionel.
3.6k with for a set with only 5 passenger cars (when the picture shows 6) and “vision line autoracks” because they have lights (cool but why vision line?) and the Heisler prices… lol😅
Hey come on guys. That phone book catalog with embossed cover isn't going to pay for itself.
I think there were 3 whole pages that didn't state "all new product"! 🙄
The commodore is a Legacy engine......barely lol. I think Lionel thinks peoples love of the history is enough for them to empty their bank accounts. I think they might learn a lesson on this catalog.(hoping actually).
@@GoldStandardTrains I wholeheartedly agree!
2024 Volumes 1 and 2 are the best!
I’m tell y’all right now if you buy something out of the 2025 catalog to flip you about to lose all your money 😂😂😂
You could drop 20k with a few Lionel purchases. Think about that.
Thanks for calling out the big "L" on the prices they have set on these pieces. I've been weary of their prices for several years now. Single pieces of rolling stock (that don't do anything) listing for near or at $100? Really? Now we see passenger cars at $250? Non-powered dummy units $450 WTF? Who are they targeting with these prices? What will amaze me more are the various dickheads out there who will argue to justify these prices. As K-Line, Weaver and Williams died off and MTH downsized, you could see this coming.
Yeah this was a huge letdown…might get a Milwaukee trainmaster once they get in but definitely not preordering anything
How can anyone afford a 3000 train😮 crazy
Great catalog review
Lionel is the worst value in model railroading today.
Prices were already outrageous going into this catalog, but now it's comical....they think we are a bunch of idiots.
Guggenheim Partners are trying to squeeze every penny out of Lionel before they sell it or completely destroy it.
I was all set before, but now there is no possibility I will buy any of this crap.
I hear these comments every time Lionel releases a catalog!! Do you really think Lionel cares about how you feel about their pricing?? If you can't afford it, don't buy it!!! Lionel isn't going out of business because their products aren't in your price range! Remember this, there is a certain segment of the O gauge community who will support and buy Lionel products regardless of the price. This catalog is for them!!!
Please don’t get me wrong here.. I absolutely CAN afford these trains. But see I have a brain, and I have thoughts. I do like to use my brain from time to time (my wife, and kids would beg to differ). For Lionel to already ENGINEER, and OWN the tooling on many of the products you see here in this catalog, and then to charge what they are charging is just a insult to people that CANT afford them, and a gouge on people that CAN.
@@realtoytrains , Again it doesn't matter what you or I think, Lionel is going to charge what they want to and they DON"T CARE whether you agree with the pricing or not! Somebody somewhere in the O gauge community is buying these products at MSRP and they don't care about the prices! People say "I'm not buying Lionel products", but they buy them anyway. I CAN AFFORD to buy ANYTHING in this catalog...if I want to, but I really don't see anything that I like, but I'm not going to bash them about their prices! Why? because as a consumer, I have a choice...to either buy the product or not. And if you research Lionel from years past, their products has ALWAYS been priced HIGH. This catalog pricing is nothing new from Lionel!!
@@realtoytrains One other thing, it's not an insult or a "gouge" on people who can or can't afford Lionel's products. Everyone still has a choice...to either buy them or not. Trust and believe, Lionel DOESN'T CARE either way......
@@rogerwhitsettdrummer2922 do you work for Lionel?
@@realtoytrains , No I don't but this is the thing, when has Lionel prices been affordable? NEVER!! But the real issue is this, young families can't afford new O scale trains because of the pricing! That is why young families go with Thomas the Tank or get an app onto a tablet or phone and let their children build the model railroad of their dreams. Today's O scale trains are for those who were born in the 50's, 60's 70's and 80's who want to relive their childhood and couldn't afford those trains because of raising families or financial situations during that time. Today's model trains are for those who have disposable income to afford these trains. Now Menards is affordable trains, but you sacrifice quantity for quality. As time goes on Lionel and the other manufacturers will continue to raise their prices and the buyer will have the same choice...to either buy them or not......
It looks like it was created by a company that is taking its customers for granted.
Let’s Hear It For Highway Robbery.
Mike Wolf please come back.
Lionel, I fear, is going to price themselves out of business.
I hope they do. MTH needs to take back the crown for the #1 producer of O gauge trains. Lionel is killing the whole entire hobby.
You know the licensing and buying the rights to use Disney, Barbie, Star Wars, Harry Potter etc. is probably millions of dollars?? I think Lionel having The Polar Express was a great idea and Thomas. But then came Harry Potter (i do like the British outline train) but the others i think its excessive and it looks like they are going down a marketing hole. Maybe the other trains are getting a higher msrp to make up for the licensing rights ?
I’m not paying 349.00$ for nothing that can’t move on it’s own power just for some led lights I can buy out the dollar store and glue on myself if we stop buying it they will stop doing it
Time to change brands, don`t buy what they`re pushing on you. THINK OUT OF THE BOX.
I can understand vision line being expensive but $80 for a battery operated train set? $400 for an ho scale train set that uses old tooling?
Lionel needs to chill out. I’m tired of them pricing even things that are for a younger audience around the triple digits. Meanwhile their HO scale competitor Bachman still has a decent selection of train sets that are around 100 and the ones that are more expensive actually feel justified.
Long time HO guy here. Thought I'd get into Lionel, watched bunch vids..... until I saw the catalog .....Now, not interested any longer ..... bummer
Their stuff breaks and craps out, and their customer service is a disaster.
For O I prefer their 20th Century trains.
Ho and N is what I do.
My God.....not only is this catalog is expensive......it """SUCKS""".....PERIOD....😮
other than the 700e its disappointing--would have thought they would have done a new engine for the 125th not just repeat some not too popular ones
Guys...I've paid less than that for a CAR! (ok, it was a few years ago, but...)
This is why I will go to the second hand market.I thought lioncheif was to be lower priced trains.Not any more.
What the hell is with lionel.You people
out there take your money elsewhere
to buy trains.
This 2025 catalog is a disappointment from last year’s catalog from the vantage point of truly new items being offered with new tooling. Also, 75% of the new items are fantasy models, in addition to Halloween and Christmas paint schemes. Lionel sells more fantasy models than any prototypical accurate paint schemes on their models. Too many fantasy schemes diminish diversity in offering more real road-name paint schemes on their rolling stock. Also, the new list prices are escalating out of control. Are new tariffs on Chinese made imports contributing to increases in price? There is a point of no return by falsely inflating prices. Customers will be shopping elsewhere. I believe comparable new MTH models are much less per similar item.
Your mind is boggled. You are losing your mind. You don't understand. It's out of control. It's totally insane. Got it.
A well thought out comment. Thank you.
@realtoytrains I tried. I really did. You put out a video where every reaction was over the top, I can only assume you just wanted to register outrage, so good work. Sorry you didn't like the catalog and everything is too expensive for you. Luckily you don't have to buy anything from it!
@ the world needs people like me, and you. ✌🏼my brother.
I think it is a bad joke.
Ridiculous !! I'm like you. I looked at this and scratched my head. Everything is overpriced as far as I'm concerned. I'll stick with the tried and true postwar that was made in America and will last a lifetime. Just bought a beautiful ABA 2344 New York Central f3 set for $350 . All day long compared to this stuff
This wont improve without some competition.
Nowadays a boxcar can cost about
a hundred dollars.And thats just one
boxcar.The prices will make even people.With some what deeo pockets
think twice.I think this is gonna turn a lot off people off.And look elsewhere
for their trains.
of
Say what you will about prices BUT at least the quality is terrible! 😂
Hahahaha! Best comment goes to 👆🏼