There are two main reasons for the bad endings (I don’t mean Dan and David!). The first was the source material (the books) had dried up and the second was the directors wanted to finish it so that they could move onto other projects. Weiss and Benioff knew how to put the show together but the whole thing was so big with massive multiple sets and numerous character arcs. I believe HBO wanted it to continue but D & D had had enough of it; to me the best solution was to sack them and bring in new blood with the ambition to complete at least 2 more seasons and the imagination to do it justice.
So did the actor playing Littlefinger. There should've been a final showdown between Varys and Littlefinger, it was building to that the entire series.
@@jameseldridge true. That kinda got overshadowed by the other bad decisions for characters. I was hoping to see more with littlefinger and also see a "final showdown" between them. Although, must say, I was pretty happy with his death and relatively satisfied with how it went down, but still, wanted to see more of him, and wanted to see more varys tbh. They really could've went for 10 seasons honestly, I'm pretty sure that was what George said, but it may have been someone else that said that. But I agree. The show could've went 10 seasons maybe 11 or 12. I totally agree they really could've spent way more time on the seasons for book 4 & 5. Probably coulda spent more time on book 3, but still, the fact they had book 4 & 5, 6 & 7 go by in what 2 or 3 seasons if remember correctly (?) was honestly just rushing it and leaving out lots of detail. I might be remembering wrong, but I swear I remember reading George's blog or a interview he did where he said that he was hoping for and thought that they could've & should've spent more time making more episodes/seasons about book 4 and book 5 considering how much content there is in it, AND it would have given them way more time to actually come up with a decent ending as well, and would've given George more time to finish his book or at least come up with more notes about where he thought the ending might be heading, I think the early, rushed ending caused George to take a break from writing winds of winter and kinda dissuaded him for a year or two. The last season should've been way longer - at the very least. And they should've been able to make 10 or 12 seasons like George thought they could.
My thing is this, why would they lose their job for speaking out now 4 years later? We all know that David and Dan wanted to get the show over with hence the rush and it was supposed to reach 10+ seasons. David and Dan will never be forgiven for ruining the ending to this hit.
Because people won't want to work with someone who may trash them later. HBO or Dan and Dave might not want to hire them again if they make them look bad.
Dan & Dave did get what was coming to them. It seems they torched their careers like they torched King's Landing. Even looking at their IMDB profiles, they haven't done much of note since the end of GoT. I bet it takes a special talent to make AND break your career on the same project.
@mattadams933 I'm actually thinking that may a reason why he is speaking out now. There was so much great acting you would think the majority of the cast would be booked & busy.
Varys was definitely mishandled in the final season. His character is famous for surviving every dynasty because he makes himself invaluable. He survived the Targaryen reign. He survived Robert's Rebellion and the usurpation. He survived Ned Stark's near-takeover. Joffrey. Tywin. Tommen. He only left because he could be implicated in the death of Tywin. To see him promise Dany that he would be up front with her but then go back on his word seems very 'off' for him. Despite being the spider and spymaster, he spoke a lot of truth when talking with Ned, Tyrion, and others. The fact that he's not with Dany in the books also speaks to the idea that the showrunners just didn't know what to do with him. They gave his plot to Qyburn in 6x10. Imagine how wild it would have been if HE had shown up in the undercity with a flock of children on a murder spree. That would have been WILD!
The last two seasons lobotomized every major character. As if they had forgotten 90% of the experiences that made them who they were. While the early seasons provided some of the best dialogue ever heard on the small screen, the last two had previously intelligent characters repeating Hanna Barbera cartoon catch-phrases. Even with all this, Conleth was magnificent in his role.
It was awful how they took two of the smartest and most cunning people (Varys and Tyrion) and made them into bumbling fools who constantly made mistakes. So for 7 seasons, Varys was the one always 'in the know' who then was portrayed as clueless. Tyrion who was always portrayed as not only book smart, but also an excellent judge of people and their motivations who single-handedly saved King's Landing in the battle of the Blackwater, goes on to make error after error in the final seasons. Danny goes from being the 'breaker of chains' to the immolater of children in less than a year?
I understand all of that, but in reality nobody is perfect and Peter and David's characters became human in their mistakes. But I felt like they were blinded by fear. Dyneries did what every person with power do. The more control and power she gain the more she changed and eventually she didn't listen to anyone. And that's reality, if any one person could control everybody in the world they would do the same.
Close....Varys and Littlefinger were the 2 smartest characters.....Tyrion...multiple captures...multiple battle blunders and multiple stints in prison.
The actor of Varys, Conleth Hill, was also one of the few actors who actually read the entire book series, and it showed in great portray of Varys. D&D or any other writer for that matter, would have not been able to write the later seasons like George himself could have done if the books were completed. However, it's utterly disgraceful they didn't give it their all and just cut it short because they wanted to move onto other projects.
I think Conleth Hill was very justified in feeling the way he did. It’s like the writers forgot about his character in the last two seasons, and I really liked scenes with Varys and Littlefinger. Honestly, I think D+D did the majority of the GOT characters wrong. And I hope no one lets them forget it, either.
Varys and littlefinger are in completely different parts of the world and pursuing completely different goals, why the hell would you expect them to interact by the end of the show?
@@eldertoguro1 show writers and runners can make anything in the storyline happen. It’s what they do. Why couldn’t something be written to get them to interact one final time to complete their character arc? It’s a fantasy series. Anything is possible.
@@caraolson3891 why not make it so cersei and dany agree to split the kingdom in half, then cersei lets jamie marry brienne and they get half the kingdom and jon and dany marry and get the other half the kingdom? show writers can make anything in the story happen after all, right? just because you can write something to happen doesn't make it a good idea, there's absolutely zero reason for varys and littlefinger to interact by the end of game of thrones, they are on completely separate paths in life. Just because they had some cool dialogue in earlier seasons doesn't mean the writers should have contrived a reason for them to have a final meeting when that would be completely out of place and such contrivances go against what made game of thrones so great in the first place, the realism(for the most part). i don't think varys and littlefinger even gave each other more than a passing thought after splitting up, they both had more important affairs to manage
@@eldertoguro1 dude, settle down. You must be in the mood to fight with random strangers online. Please find a punching bag or something else (not living) to take your anger out on. All I did was offer my opinion. You clearly don’t like it, and that’s cool. We’ll agree to disagree and move on. Hope you find a way to get all of that angst and frustration out other than taking it out on perfect strangers that you’ve never met. Good luck to you.
@@eldertoguro1 The whole Jamie and Brienne thing didn't work by the end. They should have let her have the red head. Those two had chemistry. Instead they chose to destroy her too. Sad.
He did a Awesome job as Varys. It's understandable that he would be upset and disappointed. Especially when you give it your all bringing a character to life. Putting your heart into by truly embracing the character. Varys definitely should have been there for the death of little finger. I wanted him to make it to the end so bad. I am still upset about his death lol
Varys and littlefinger are in completely different parts of the world and pursuing completely different goals, why the hell would you expect them to interact by the end of the show? A final showdown between those two would be contrived for the sake of story at the expense of realism which goes against what made game of thrones so great
@@Subtr0nic People just love to try and tear apart IP's because they think it makes them sound knowledgeable and cool. Whether it's Mass Effect or Game of Thrones or Doctor Who. Unfortunately studios keep mistaking the loudest voices for the majority.
@@Subtr0nicBecause it made no sense, and it pissed on the legacy of every previous season. People devoted YEARS of their lives watching this story develop and grow, then saw it fall flat on its face at the end. I guess you forgot in season 7 where Bran said that because of what he was, he couldn’t hold titles, land, or sire children? Then, they offer to make him king, and suddenly that’s all out the window? There’s a multi year buildup of how important Jon Snows real parentage is, and then it suddenly means absolutely nothing and he just rides off into the North. The Night King, whose army is the first enemy we see in the 1st season, haunts and butchers thousands of people in every subsequent season and seems completely unstoppable, all while foreshadowing a final showdown between him and Jon Snow. Then, Arya kills him randomly and the White Walkers are dealt with in ONE episode so CERSEI can be the final boss? Cersei becomes the final villain? Ok then. Where’s the prophecy of the Valonqar, saying her brother would be the one to kill her? It was a rushed mess at the end that was clumsily slopped together and destroyed multiple character arcs that had been building up from years before, all because the writers were too impatient to flesh it out properly and wanted to move on to Star Wars.
I felt horrible for him after seeing him read the final season. He had every reason to feel disappointed and upset that the last few seasons were rushed. I think everyone felt that way. We Know by what many of the other actors have said that they did not enjoy the rest last two seasons and that they didn't enjoy how their character ended. The entire thing was a mess and we can all blame Dan and Dave for trying to hurry up and get to the next project as fast as I possibly could.
@@jonathanechevers6265 D&D: "FINALLY! Now let's go over to that Star Wars project!" Disney: _"Haa haa._ How about *no?"* D&D: "Wait, wha--" One of the best things Disney/Lucasfilm has done over the last few years.
I think the blame rests more with grrm for not finishing his books. D&D were great at adapting a screenplay to TV, but just because they were phenomenal at that doesn't mean they would be good at writing story, which they weren't. So yeah, the problem is more with GRRM than anyone.
Love that Emelia Clarke reaction, toward the end of the video. The look on her face says it all: "Sure, I loved it! (Somebody save me from the mediocrity this is going to stain my career with!!)"
she's so hilarious....her face is normal when asked if they've shot their final scenes then when the part of the question, "And are you happy with how things ended" her immediate face shift...her eyebrows, and just that sound that comes out lol....i keep rewatching it..."best season ever!" lololol
I know. I don't remember a single character they didn't do dirty. I felt like I sat through eight seasons of trauma to be slapped in the face by cardboard cutouts.
HBO was willing to go up too 11 seasons. the studio should of forced Dan & Dave out as show runners. they didnt even want too be there. they had Star Wars pursuits. and why we got a rushed garbage final 2 seasons.
@@strawpiglet Bran the broken became some mary sue. he also evolved to be a mythical being. the "3 eyed raven" and the last one lived for thousands of years. I dont think the people will tolerate a king that lives that long. (even if he is mystically enhanced too "see everything")
I do not believe it would be an exaggeration to say A song of Ice and Fire would have gone down as the greatest series ever created, but hey took what was exactly that and once the book material ran out they destroyed that within a few seasons. It was SO sad. Littlefinger and The Spider should have had an ending of cunning and strategy where they were out to destroy the other until only one was left.
Meanwhile Peter Dinklage and Sophia are whining us fans are in the wrong and we should just accept that horrendous ending. Good to know people like Varys and Daenerys are on our side
@@kmcd3020it’s not a waste of time whining about it cause if no one complained then this type of crap would happen to other beloved shows in the future more often.. but if they get push back then they might take more care of the ip. Nothing would ever get done if they had no feedback from the majority of the fans
Dinklage is a jerk, he literally cost a bunch of dwarfs jobs over his PC rantings, which several dwarf actors have roasted him for and Sophia always came off as a unlikable snob compared to most of the other actors. Peter is a great actor but not so great a person.
Seeing Kit and Conleth taking it hard, is a testament on how much everyone out everything on this show for it to be rushed like that. Even that subtle look Emilia gave Kit on the table read. Unfortunately HBO is a really hard to get into, but once you are in they rehire you for their shows, so actors would not want to speak out
Varys was butchered once they started straying from the books, he barely did anything since season 4. I agree with his feelings, i personally didnt like any of the main characters endings because none of it was earned. Even the stark endings disappointed me but not because of where they ended up but because of how they barely reconnected as a family before departing to never see each other again.
Whose fault is it they strayed from the books? They ran out of source material and wrote their own story. I’m glad someone finished an adaptation of game of thrones since George still hasn’t finished his own story
@@eldertoguro1 both sides are at fault, George told them they needed at least 10 seasons even 13. There was enough source material for 10 to 11 seasons
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 Bunk. Once Martin got that contract signed, he started acting like the egotistical little prima donna he is. Dan and Dave were caught in some ugly power plays between the factions who hold the purse strings and the one who thought he had a stranglehold on creativity. Martin has lost so much respect and good will from his business associates, supporters, and fanbase, however, that his influence is now negligible.
@@BaalsMistress Nah, usually death came to people when D&D didn't quite know what to do with them anymore or when they needed a "shocking twist" (see Barristan Selmy). That worked when it was set up and (pardon the pun) executed properly, but they so very much failed that premise throughout the later seasons.
I agree. He was a great character. Really a big part in GOT. I know the ride has to end but dang. The problem was they had the books to lean on in the beginning. Then when it really started to take work after they used up all the story line and had to get creative, they didn't.
This is why the show was so great. Even the actors bought in 100%. They cared so much, and an 8-year TV series will have its imperfections, so knowing that some of these actors left unfulfilled just fits the overall excellence of the experience. Love it.
His character went downhill for 1 reason; characters are only as smart as the people who write them, and D&D are fully on the spectrum. You have the first 4 seasons based off of George’s writing, and then the final 4 seasons and he’s a completely different character. They all were completely different characters, and you can see how bad and fraudulent they are as writers.
D&D were in way over their head. With a story as complex as Ice and fire, even good writers would have a hard time trying to finish where George RR left off. And D&D are definitely not good writers, just look at their previous works. Even George himself apparently doesn't know how to finish the last two books....and Varys didn't even do anything. He was just the weather man basically just telling Dany what was going on yet not really offering any real advice or doing his usual political moves behind the scenes . That and just hanging out with Tyrion and being the butt of his cock jokes.
@@twistedinnocence8617right...the last seasons would have been great if they had George material to rip from. But like you said, even George doesn't know how to resolve these plotlines in a way that's satisfying, which is why there's still no book
Varys' descent into stupidity was one of the worst aspects of the latter half of the show, along with Tyrion, of course. I think the biggest problem for them with running out of novels to adapt was that they didn't have GRRM's dialogue anymore. D&D were clearly good at adapting stories and I think they can also write their own if they actually try hard enough, but if you have a character whose appeal is basically 95% how he conducts himself in dialogue sequences and you're trying to imitate how someone else wrote him - it's basically impossible. Especially if you're in a hurry to get it over with.
Nobody will ever be able to make me see anything positive about the last 2 seasons. It was a huge middle finger to the world. I’m not saying metaphorically. I firmly believe that’s what it was because it felt that way. But also because of what Dan and Dave said about all the criticism. Screw those two. Proof that people need to learn how to fail. They did fail. But there was zero virtue in their failure
Every line Conleth speaks is a masterclass in acting. His scansion/delivery is genius. The finest male actor in the show (still watching third season).
We all loved the actors first of all so. remember that this show was made for those of us who fell in love with every aspect of GOT... "All of us as the Audience felt Pissed on" Varys was & is the very best of us fighting our way to a better life.
Varys and Littlefinger's little bickering sessions were some of my favorite moments from the show. They both played their parts to perfection. I don't think either of them were meant to be main characters but you can't create influence merchants and then write away their influence. That their rivalry had no closure is also pretty annoying.
D&D did Varys dirty!!!! He was one of the best characters and didn't deserve the ending they gave him. I was angry at Littlefinger's death too, same with the Hound!! WTF??? Ugh, I sure hope we get a rewrite.
The hound was total fanfiction come to life. People said it would be cool if the Hound fought the mountain and what did they do? They did that very thing. There was no reason for the hound to even be in the red keep.
I wonder how many of the cast would come back if they were told they could do the show properly and have three final seasons at 13 episodes each would comeback just to do justice to the characters and have bran just dream that nightmare of winter.
No one does 13 episodes anymore. Each episode of season 8 cost approximately $15m. The cast is one thing, but getting the same crew reassembled would be impossible, and you all underestimate their value and contributions to the series.
@@tessdurberville711 i consider anyone that was working on the show part of the cast. Guess I should have said cast and crew. Honestly Dan and Dave weren’t so bad til they said we need to do something else like Star Wars. Kinda funny to think they were considered some of the best for a while.
@@TheDemonking82 Apparently they still are. They have a $200m development deal at Netflix. Their first new series debuts in January featuring three former Game of Thrones actors.
They did him so dirty .. he was one of my most favourite characters ever & always will be ! Thank you Conleth for gracing us with your presence throughout the series ! So amazingly talented & I hope to see him on tv again ❤
I loved Varys. He was an incredible character. D and D should have stepped down and allowed writers with the time, intelligence and loyalty to the show and the fans to Continue with this epic story. As GRRM said, there was enough source material to give us anothe 4 seasons. It could have been absolutely phenomenal. It's still to me the greatest show I've ever seen but when I get to season 8 I just can't watch. I literally grieved the loss of GOT and to an extent still do. Such a shame 😞
Blame Casey Bloys and whoever drew up the contracts. If they did not have a clause stating that the series could be continued with other writers, in case of illness, death, etc. then they are the ones who deserve your wrath, not the showrunners who did a wonderful job under those circumstances.
@@tessdurberville711 oh you' re delusional. DnD at anytime could have hired other writers or chose to pass the show on. They didn't. Wait? Dan is that you?
You dont need go to recent news, at his day, the actor of Ser Barristan say the same. He read the books. He knows that his characters dont die, not yet (end the books martin), and he wrote a letter to Dave and Dan complaining an telling how bad was the idea of killing the character. What they do? They laugh, even when tell that story in a interview, and ignore the actor.
Varys is the character I miss most from the show, he was my favorite! Conleth Hill brought that character to life brilliantly in that I wanted to know more about Varys but at the same time didn't want the mystery to end. If GRRM should finish the book, I wonder if the dirty little secrets behind the scenes about what happened behind the scenes would come out then. I don't think it would come out before. But you never know!
The biggest problem is that just about all the endings were rushed an unearned, and that was a big contrast to a series (and a series of books) that took their time and made sure everything was earned.
Varys was done dirty in the name of expediency. I completely agree with Mr. Hill. He had every right to be disgusted and upset. I don't think Dany should have been the villain that she was made into in the last 3 episodes of the series. I understand the whole subverting expectations crap the D&D pushed but the story arcs just did not meet, or if they did, not in a manner that made any kind of sense. Now I will say that there were some characters that I thought met their end in the series that made absolute sense. Little Finger, Dondarion, Jonah Mormont, Misandei....they all met an end that made sense in the story. Personally, I was hoping the Tyrion would get the W for killing Cersei. Someone will prolly argue this with me but I think that Sansa was the ONLY character that had a storyline that was consistent and fully fleshed out in the series. Yes, I know Ned and Drogo's were complete as well but they did not last the entire series, unlike Sansa. Bran, John and Arya all got short changed. I mean, how in the hell did Bran go from 3eyed Raven to King of Westeros?? And Arya.....how in the hell did she become the savior of Westeros when that should have been John?? I was willing to suspend disbelief about season 7 hoping that 8 would be fulfilling and answer some questions. I did not even watch the very last episode as I was so disgusted with how the previous 5 had gone. Even to this day, when I rewatch the series, I stop at season 7 because of the bad taste that season 8 left me with.
Little Finger technically isn’t low born since Lord of the Fingers. He is higher than a landed knight like Gregor Clegane but is low as low born as lord could be…
I think that the reason more of the cast hasn't spoken against the show runners is because of contractual limitations. It is pretty common to have a contract clause that goes along the lines of not bad mouthing the project for some period of time after the project is finished. I imagine a bunch of those agreements are beginning to expire.
I understand Vary's disappointment, but the real crime here is Littlefinger -_- The smartest most cunning guy in the whole show got outplayed by a couple of teens. Chaos is a ladder that allows you to get just close enough to the blade so it can cut your throat apparently.
I would've been completely fine with how it ended if things were fleshed out better and not rushed. Also hated how the Night King was taken out cause that was the one thing that made absolutely zero sense, same with who became King. Everything else I can see how it'd get to that point, it just needed to be developed more. Certain foreshadowing was there, but it means nothing if you rush to get there.
Plot developments, character motivations, and clues that went nowhere were all problems but the problems were even deeper- the dialogue is what I really noticed, felt like I wasn't even watching the same show anymore
My main issue with the end of the series was that it was too rushed. I liked the individual entries, but the arc was too short. Why did they not show more of the interplay between Jon and Dani after the revelation of his birthright? Why did Jon's birthright not come up before the council? Although there were signs of Dani's mental/emotional shortcomings throughout the seasons, they should have devoted a lot more time to her final descent into madness. I also agree with Conleth Hill's thought that there should have been a final exchange between Varys and Littlefinger.
I am very certain that the end in its whole direction will happen in the books as well. After all GRRM was still involved. The books will just do an infinitely better job of leading up to it. Sure, some characters are in a different place (some just from merely existing) but I have that feeling that GRRM will go for that bittersweet ending.
Everyone in the cast of GOT was phenomenal and many of them did get robbed. Only a few truly had justice done to their character on D&D's part. Brienne, Sandor, and the Lannisters really got the endings that they deserved. The one cast member that I have mixed feeling about is Daenerys. I don't think the show did a good job of leading up to her becoming the Mad Queen, but I think that the hints that lead up to that have been sprinkled throughout the story in both the show and ASOIAF. I have little doubt that GRRM will flush that out much better.
@@thaddeusnallphilosophersst6855 Then you must also be the only one not boasting about being able to write a better series ending. Calling a lady "Bro" is very inappropriate.
I agree 100% that the last few seasons were rushed. The multi-character show became much more narrow, more focused on specific single characters than the relationships that had been built. The last season was way too fast. I still wonder to this day what had happened to make it end as quickly as it did.
I’ve heard that HBO originally wanted a minimum of 10 seasons and the two writers were on board until Disney offered them a contract for Star Wars so they started rushing GoT but it went so poorly the contract was rescinded
I didn't mind Varys not being all knowing. A large part of that had to do with his knowledge of the Red Keep and it's secret passages. Once he left there, he seemed to be more involved in putting information out rather than collecting it, which I think is fine. But they ended his character, and the show without a care for whether or not it was any good. If they were tired of doing GoT, they should have gotten out of the way, and let someone else finish it.
It's hard to recommend Game Of Thrones to anyone given how it fell completely apart over the last 3 seasons. The first 5 seasons were magic though, masterful storytelling
Well, it's true he can't take it personally. It wasn't just Varys that was thrown away, it was everyone, the whole show and the bathwater. From the beginning, there were hints that Weiss and Benioff were out of their element any time they strayed from Martin's source material and it was made abundantly clear how far in the deep end of the pool they were floundering when they sloppily cut off the Dorne plot and turned the Sand Snakes into cartoons marking the beginning of the precipitous decline. It's like that scene in Vanilla Sky where Weiss and Benioff starts recklessly driving through red lights and the rest of us are like, "Stop the car." Watch the scene for more context. heh.
He was without a doubt misused the last few seasons a character with that intellectual level of schemes and plots it was a sad outcome as an understatement
I completely agree with your assessment of the rushed season and that there was no closure between Varies and little finger. Also because I read the books, I was disappointed that some characters like rob’s mother who was brought back to life to avenge Robs death wasn’t explored. In my opinion they could have done another season.
I agree the last season was rushed and should have been alot better, but idk how no one seen Dany becoming the bad guy coming. We seen how power hungry she became, how many people she killed for not submitting to her, then we see Sansa not bending to her. What do yall think would have happened if Jon let her live?
or the writer actually. They just adapters I think, and they did a good job doing that. Not their fault GRRM didn't plan. Their writing still sucks but.
honestly i dont care if the books from now on go exactly as the internet predict it, because i know ill enjoy reading them anyway. its the way its written and the story that i like, not that its unpredictable. people know how fairytales go but still tell them over and over anyway because they enjoy them. being unpredictable isnt always the best thing
Littlefinger and Varys both were betrayed by the horrible writing in the last several seasons. The sad part is they weren't even the most-ruined characters, I'm pretty sure Jamie, Tyrion, and Jon got it worst, though you could argue the lack of substance turning Daenerys "mad" in the blink of an eye was the worst.
Littlefinger is definitely a top contestant for most ruined. Even though he was a bastard, he was a magnificent one for how smartly he handled things. An then, when this genius character who relies entirely on deception, has his own evil motto quoted at him by Bran, the known seer whose family he destroyed.... his reaction is to keep hanging around and wait to be exposed?
Animated shows are SOO much more expensive and labor intensive to make, and if you're already doin' 15M an episode stuff,..... I think they are doing a YiTi animation or something, definitely something takin place in this world would be awesome. And If it were possible to wish the entire series animated to exist, I would. It's just not a feasible goal.
The video of the read thru is so telling. He reads his death, throws it on the table, pushes the script as far as possible from him, crossed his arms and frowned.
I think, that pretty much everything and everyone was misshandled at the end of the show. And by "end of the show", I mean everything after the book adaptation in season 4 and when d&d started to make things up on their own.
@@eldertoguro1 Did the cast build the sets and dress them, design and create the costumes, compose the score, create the special effects, etc. etc. etc? No one ever thinks of the crew, the artists, the builders, the craftsmen. These comments are so disrespectful.
I definitely agree with him on how the show was rushed at the end. Felt like they just wanted it over with already and ruined the end in the process to one of the greatest shows ever
@@tessdurberville711 No she wasn't. They ruined her. They ruined every female character in that show. Guessing you're a Sansa person 🙄🙄. Also guessing you know nothing about how Dany grew up. I don't need to study psychology to know what it's like to live in constant fear for the first 16/17 years of my life. Pft. Tf out of my replies with that bs.
@@NessaBear90she had glimpses of being the same as every other tyrannical ruler throughout the whole show, thank you for proving exactly why it was so easy for idiots to not realise that's where her character was going, it's not about "Danny Vs sansa" and saying that proves that you're nothing more than an armchair fan who doesn't think deep into the shows themes you just go "my favourite character=good person" it's about the fact that dany was always going to be a bad person and thinking she wasn't means you blatantly ignored her character because "Yaas girlboss you go queen" that's the only reason people don't think dany will become evil which is the worste reason ever
I think the last two seasons get hammered because people and maybe even the actors had in their heads how things would end. When they didn't end that way it created disappointment. I think the ending for most of these characters was written on the wall seasons in advance and folks choose to ignore it.
I think it's mainly because in order for the ending to happen in that short a time, every character became a moron to ensure the plot happened. None of the characters acted in line with how their arcs were developing at all. Bad character writing, mostly
So Peter is happy about Tyrion becoming “the Court Jester”?? Incapable of intelligent thought. A lot of the fans read the books & understand the source material better
Imo, HBO also holds a big part of the blame for the last 2 seasons. They said all along they wanted 10 seasons but D&D didn't. They moment they said no, HBO should have fired them on the spot and bring in dedicated writers (like Ryan Condal for example) to finish the story properly. HBO knows they are to blame for not firing D&D when they should have, which is why they insisted in House Of The Dragon being made and with that, to make some kind of amends. GOT is over and nothing will change the final 2 seasons. I'm one of those people who loves to see the bigger picture, which is GOT was a generational phenomenon, a story that has captivated viewers for a decade and that raised the bar high in the sky for television fantasy. Not even the rushed final 2 seasons are enough for me to stop considering GOT as the greatest show ever. I just love it to damn much.
I see so much hate for GOT creators, Weiss and Benioff, that they screwed up the ending or couldn't wait to end it while delivering short seasons. I think they suffered a lot from not being able to lean on RR Martin's books in the last seasons. However, I have to appreciate them the fact that they picked up the material and made an awesome adaptation. I'm guessing that they got some direction from RR Martin for the ending, but they just didn't have the creative ability to fill out the story arcs and to fill out 8 to 10 episodes in the last season's. It's a massive weight and burden to come up with that original material and adapt it to the screen. That's why I just can't be too hard on those two. I, for one, thank them for enriching my life with GOT for eight seasons, for which I would not have otherwise been exposed to it. They may not have been great at developing original material. But they were outstanding at adapting good source material. I hope we can all overlook their mediocre GOT landing and let them adapt something else. I bet they will do an awesome job.
A rational & rare response. Varys betrays a 'queen' who constantly has people put to death for betrayals, and everyone's surprised. And Danaerys' ending? Jon Snow kills Danaerys, just as he was killed by his compadres at the wall. He was brought back to life after days of lying on a table. No one imagines that the dragon carried Danaerys back to the east where SHE would be brought back to life? That's my take on the ending. She was always crazy and made many bad decisions. The show was mainly a study in human fallacies, and the lead character was always Arya.
I dont have a problem with it, and I have realized it could be because I did not watch it over the 10 years, I binge it earlier this year. Those who did, they had to wait week by week and season by season and that caused a lot of anticipation and expectation from own imagination. However, the series showed exactly what was going to happen the entire time, especially as of 6. First, Arya story, what exactly think she was training for with unknown? Dany visions, SHE CLEARLY SAW A DISTROYED THROWN AND THAT SHE WOULD NOT BE QUEEN. There must be a reasons SHE did it, it ended that way on purpose, very open ended BECAUSE THE BOOKS ARE NOT YET COMPLETED.
Am just glad he's confirming even he thought they did Varys dirty, instead of him being "the all knowing character he had been" they clearly rushed, doing away with character development across the board really.
Emilia was mad about becoming the villain. Erm, it had been building towards that for several seasons and she wasn't really the villain in that situation, that was on Cersei.
@@Harahvaiti Before that final season, when she burned that father alive in front of his kid, was that not a villain move? 🤔 And tbh, she wasn't the villain in the burning of kings landing, Cersei was. It's just the snowflakes on the internet who jumped on the bandwagon wouldn't stop crying about Dany doing what was necessary to win after Cersei had her best friends head cut off and refused to surrender after being given days and days and warning after warning
@@KitanaiharE Tarlys were traitors. And they were well aware of it. Cersei offered old man Tarly rule over the Reach on exchange for him turning against Tyrells. Boltons did the same against Starks. Old man Tarly refused to acknowledge Daenerys as a queen, retaining loyal to Cersei and his death was well deserved. His not so clever son followed him. Traitors die in Westeros.
@@Harahvaiti So we can understand Dany doing what she had to do in that instance, but folks had to have a cow about her doing what she had to do to put down Cersei, who refused to surrender? 🤔
My apologies for the blurred screen at the beginning. HBO claimed the video. I had to do that in order for it to get released.
There was nothing to apologize for! Your channel is wonderful!
Varys was one of my favorite characters from both the books and show. The actor did a great job with his portrayal.
Absolutely
HE WAS ❤ AWESOME
He knew how good that character was and how they screwed him in the last 2 seasons.
The writers however made his character completely change his entire personality in the horrific final season.
@@BobZombie you could say the same for a lot of characters. The last 3 seasons were a trainwreck.
The writers definitely dropped the ball with varys. He was so well written, and at the end it was almost like he was an afterthought.
Yea, every character became a sloppy afterthought. The only main thought they had was "gotta end the show asap".
He was well written by GRRM. When the writers had to come up with plot lines for him, without any more source material, they failed miserably.
The balls. They dropped the balls.
They dropped all the balls
Did nearly the same with Tyrion. Basically GRRM's 2 favorite characters to write were written out of the story.
They really blew what could easily have been the best TV series in cinematic history.
Well the first five seasons are still the best tv aired
@@ragnakak Wild how a show can set the bar so high and so low
still was.
Still the best
There are two main reasons for the bad endings (I don’t mean Dan and David!). The first was the source material (the books) had dried up and the second was the directors wanted to finish it so that they could move onto other projects. Weiss and Benioff knew how to put the show together but the whole thing was so big with massive multiple sets and numerous character arcs. I believe HBO wanted it to continue but D & D had had enough of it; to me the best solution was to sack them and bring in new blood with the ambition to complete at least 2 more seasons and the imagination to do it justice.
He did such a good job playing Varys, and D&D butchered him :(
He was amazing
Dungeons and Dragons?
So did the actor playing Littlefinger. There should've been a final showdown between Varys and Littlefinger, it was building to that the entire series.
Not a physical battle but a battle of the mind, analogous to a chess match or game of riddles...
@@jameseldridge true. That kinda got overshadowed by the other bad decisions for characters. I was hoping to see more with littlefinger and also see a "final showdown" between them.
Although, must say, I was pretty happy with his death and relatively satisfied with how it went down, but still, wanted to see more of him, and wanted to see more varys tbh.
They really could've went for 10 seasons honestly, I'm pretty sure that was what George said, but it may have been someone else that said that. But I agree. The show could've went 10 seasons maybe 11 or 12. I totally agree they really could've spent way more time on the seasons for book 4 & 5. Probably coulda spent more time on book 3, but still, the fact they had book 4 & 5, 6 & 7 go by in what 2 or 3 seasons if remember correctly (?) was honestly just rushing it and leaving out lots of detail.
I might be remembering wrong, but I swear I remember reading George's blog or a interview he did where he said that he was hoping for and thought that they could've & should've spent more time making more episodes/seasons about book 4 and book 5 considering how much content there is in it, AND it would have given them way more time to actually come up with a decent ending as well, and would've given George more time to finish his book or at least come up with more notes about where he thought the ending might be heading, I think the early, rushed ending caused George to take a break from writing winds of winter and kinda dissuaded him for a year or two.
The last season should've been way longer - at the very least. And they should've been able to make 10 or 12 seasons like George thought they could.
My thing is this, why would they lose their job for speaking out now 4 years later? We all know that David and Dan wanted to get the show over with hence the rush and it was supposed to reach 10+ seasons. David and Dan will never be forgiven for ruining the ending to this hit.
It’s like going into a job interview and talking smack about previous management the whole time. It’s a bad look and won’t get you hired.
Because people won't want to work with someone who may trash them later. HBO or Dan and Dave might not want to hire them again if they make them look bad.
@@BeingTheBear I see I hate that it works that way. I haven’t even seen most of them in anything since GoT ended tbh.
Dan & Dave did get what was coming to them. It seems they torched their careers like they torched King's Landing. Even looking at their IMDB profiles, they haven't done much of note since the end of GoT. I bet it takes a special talent to make AND break your career on the same project.
@mattadams933 I'm actually thinking that may a reason why he is speaking out now. There was so much great acting you would think the majority of the cast would be booked & busy.
Varys was definitely mishandled in the final season. His character is famous for surviving every dynasty because he makes himself invaluable. He survived the Targaryen reign. He survived Robert's Rebellion and the usurpation. He survived Ned Stark's near-takeover. Joffrey. Tywin. Tommen. He only left because he could be implicated in the death of Tywin. To see him promise Dany that he would be up front with her but then go back on his word seems very 'off' for him. Despite being the spider and spymaster, he spoke a lot of truth when talking with Ned, Tyrion, and others. The fact that he's not with Dany in the books also speaks to the idea that the showrunners just didn't know what to do with him. They gave his plot to Qyburn in 6x10. Imagine how wild it would have been if HE had shown up in the undercity with a flock of children on a murder spree. That would have been WILD!
The last two seasons lobotomized every major character. As if they had forgotten 90% of the experiences that made them who they were. While the early seasons provided some of the best dialogue ever heard on the small screen, the last two had previously intelligent characters repeating Hanna Barbera cartoon catch-phrases. Even with all this, Conleth was magnificent in his role.
It was awful how they took two of the smartest and most cunning people (Varys and Tyrion) and made them into bumbling fools who constantly made mistakes. So for 7 seasons, Varys was the one always 'in the know' who then was portrayed as clueless. Tyrion who was always portrayed as not only book smart, but also an excellent judge of people and their motivations who single-handedly saved King's Landing in the battle of the Blackwater, goes on to make error after error in the final seasons.
Danny goes from being the 'breaker of chains' to the immolater of children in less than a year?
I understand all of that, but in reality nobody is perfect and Peter and David's characters became human in their mistakes. But I felt like they were blinded by fear. Dyneries did what every person with power do. The more control and power she gain the more she changed and eventually she didn't listen to anyone. And that's reality, if any one person could control everybody in the world they would do the same.
Nothing you can't fix with some dick jokes
Danny only broke chains to gain an army.
I'm just glad the actors aren't scared anymore and are speaking the truth now..
Close....Varys and Littlefinger were the 2 smartest characters.....Tyrion...multiple captures...multiple battle blunders and multiple stints in prison.
The actor of Varys, Conleth Hill, was also one of the few actors who actually read the entire book series, and it showed in great portray of Varys. D&D or any other writer for that matter, would have not been able to write the later seasons like George himself could have done if the books were completed. However, it's utterly disgraceful they didn't give it their all and just cut it short because they wanted to move onto other projects.
At least D&D righteously lost ALL OF THESE jobs they screwed over GoT for
Why waste their time? It was just spot gig to most of the cast.
I think Conleth Hill was very justified in feeling the way he did. It’s like the writers forgot about his character in the last two seasons, and I really liked scenes with Varys and Littlefinger. Honestly, I think D+D did the majority of the GOT characters wrong. And I hope no one lets them forget it, either.
Varys and littlefinger are in completely different parts of the world and pursuing completely different goals, why the hell would you expect them to interact by the end of the show?
@@eldertoguro1 show writers and runners can make anything in the storyline happen. It’s what they do. Why couldn’t something be written to get them to interact one final time to complete their character arc? It’s a fantasy series. Anything is possible.
@@caraolson3891 why not make it so cersei and dany agree to split the kingdom in half, then cersei lets jamie marry brienne and they get half the kingdom and jon and dany marry and get the other half the kingdom? show writers can make anything in the story happen after all, right?
just because you can write something to happen doesn't make it a good idea, there's absolutely zero reason for varys and littlefinger to interact by the end of game of thrones, they are on completely separate paths in life. Just because they had some cool dialogue in earlier seasons doesn't mean the writers should have contrived a reason for them to have a final meeting when that would be completely out of place and such contrivances go against what made game of thrones so great in the first place, the realism(for the most part).
i don't think varys and littlefinger even gave each other more than a passing thought after splitting up, they both had more important affairs to manage
@@eldertoguro1 dude, settle down. You must be in the mood to fight with random strangers online. Please find a punching bag or something else (not living) to take your anger out on. All I did was offer my opinion. You clearly don’t like it, and that’s cool. We’ll agree to disagree and move on. Hope you find a way to get all of that angst and frustration out other than taking it out on perfect strangers that you’ve never met. Good luck to you.
@@eldertoguro1 The whole Jamie and Brienne thing didn't work by the end. They should have let her have the red head. Those two had chemistry. Instead they chose to destroy her too. Sad.
He did a Awesome job as Varys. It's understandable that he would be upset and disappointed. Especially when you give it your all bringing a character to life. Putting your heart into by truly embracing the character. Varys definitely should have been there for the death of little finger. I wanted him to make it to the end so bad. I am still upset about his death lol
Well said
Varys and littlefinger are in completely different parts of the world and pursuing completely different goals, why the hell would you expect them to interact by the end of the show? A final showdown between those two would be contrived for the sake of story at the expense of realism which goes against what made game of thrones so great
@@Subtr0nic People just love to try and tear apart IP's because they think it makes them sound knowledgeable and cool.
Whether it's Mass Effect or Game of Thrones or Doctor Who.
Unfortunately studios keep mistaking the loudest voices for the majority.
@@Subtr0nicBecause it made no sense, and it pissed on the legacy of every previous season. People devoted YEARS of their lives watching this story develop and grow, then saw it fall flat on its face at the end. I guess you forgot in season 7 where Bran said that because of what he was, he couldn’t hold titles, land, or sire children? Then, they offer to make him king, and suddenly that’s all out the window? There’s a multi year buildup of how important Jon Snows real parentage is, and then it suddenly means absolutely nothing and he just rides off into the North. The Night King, whose army is the first enemy we see in the 1st season, haunts and butchers thousands of people in every subsequent season and seems completely unstoppable, all while foreshadowing a final showdown between him and Jon Snow. Then, Arya kills him randomly and the White Walkers are dealt with in ONE episode so CERSEI can be the final boss? Cersei becomes the final villain? Ok then. Where’s the prophecy of the Valonqar, saying her brother would be the one to kill her? It was a rushed mess at the end that was clumsily slopped together and destroyed multiple character arcs that had been building up from years before, all because the writers were too impatient to flesh it out properly and wanted to move on to Star Wars.
@@heathermillsphantomlimb9314But you didn't disagree with what he said?
I felt horrible for him after seeing him read the final season. He had every reason to feel disappointed and upset that the last few seasons were rushed. I think everyone felt that way. We Know by what many of the other actors have said that they did not enjoy the rest last two seasons and that they didn't enjoy how their character ended. The entire thing was a mess and we can all blame Dan and Dave for trying to hurry up and get to the next project as fast as I possibly could.
I still can't wrap my head around the fact that they can get hired to new projects with how they colossally screwed seasons 7-8.
@@ahallofgaming802a lot of their other projects were indeed abruptly cancelled
@@jonathanechevers6265
D&D: "FINALLY! Now let's go over to that Star Wars project!"
Disney: _"Haa haa._ How about *no?"*
D&D: "Wait, wha--"
One of the best things Disney/Lucasfilm has done over the last few years.
I think the blame rests more with grrm for not finishing his books. D&D were great at adapting a screenplay to TV, but just because they were phenomenal at that doesn't mean they would be good at writing story, which they weren't. So yeah, the problem is more with GRRM than anyone.
@@thespeedofchillax well tbf its also their fault for not getting the help that they needed writing good scripts then lol ngl
Love that Emelia Clarke reaction, toward the end of the video. The look on her face says it all: "Sure, I loved it! (Somebody save me from the mediocrity this is going to stain my career with!!)"
Her previous "stellar" and present career. She should be grateful until her dying day that she was ever a part of this series.
@@tessdurberville711I'm sure she is grateful. She's still allowed to not like the ending for her character.
she's so hilarious....her face is normal when asked if they've shot their final scenes then when the part of the question, "And are you happy with how things ended" her immediate face shift...her eyebrows, and just that sound that comes out lol....i keep rewatching it..."best season ever!" lololol
@@marcblair3781 You can just tell that she knew that question was eventually coming... and she DREADED it! lol
Emelia Clarke is an extremely mediocre actress though lol. Without GoT she'd be a Z list actress....
It's been so many years after the final season, but the mess up was so bad that it will never be forgotten.
yep those selfish fuckers (D&D) ruined a show so bad that it will be remembered for eternity unless there is a remake
Omg, this definitely stirs up all of my rage at how the series was ended. Such a miserable debacle.
I know. I don't remember a single character they didn't do dirty. I felt like I sat through eight seasons of trauma to be slapped in the face by cardboard cutouts.
HBO was willing to go up too 11 seasons. the studio should of forced Dan & Dave out as show runners. they didnt even want too be there. they had Star Wars pursuits. and why we got a rushed garbage final 2 seasons.
@@strawpiglet Bran the broken became some mary sue. he also evolved to be a mythical being. the "3 eyed raven" and the last one lived for thousands of years. I dont think the people will tolerate a king that lives that long. (even if he is mystically enhanced too "see everything")
Why was the lich king so concerned with Bran anyway? Somehow I missed that.@@dustinherk8124
I do not believe it would be an exaggeration to say A song of Ice and Fire would have gone down as the greatest series ever created, but hey took what was exactly that and once the book material ran out they destroyed that within a few seasons. It was SO sad. Littlefinger and The Spider should have had an ending of cunning and strategy where they were out to destroy the other until only one was left.
Meanwhile Peter Dinklage and Sophia are whining us fans are in the wrong and we should just accept that horrendous ending. Good to know people like Varys and Daenerys are on our side
I think even they know it was garbage but want to keep friendly relations with execs in Hollywood.
They have a point though because we do have to accept it. Why waste time moaning and whinging, it's over it's finished can't re-do it
@@kmcd3020it’s not a waste of time whining about it cause if no one complained then this type of crap would happen to other beloved shows in the future more often.. but if they get push back then they might take more care of the ip. Nothing would ever get done if they had no feedback from the majority of the fans
Dinklage is a jerk, he literally cost a bunch of dwarfs jobs over his PC rantings, which several dwarf actors have roasted him for and Sophia always came off as a unlikable snob compared to most of the other actors. Peter is a great actor but not so great a person.
@@kmcd3020 Jon Snow can fix it
Seeing Kit and Conleth taking it hard, is a testament on how much everyone out everything on this show for it to be rushed like that. Even that subtle look Emilia gave Kit on the table read. Unfortunately HBO is a really hard to get into, but once you are in they rehire you for their shows, so actors would not want to speak out
Varys was butchered once they started straying from the books, he barely did anything since season 4. I agree with his feelings, i personally didnt like any of the main characters endings because none of it was earned. Even the stark endings disappointed me but not because of where they ended up but because of how they barely reconnected as a family before departing to never see each other again.
Whose fault is it they strayed from the books? They ran out of source material and wrote their own story. I’m glad someone finished an adaptation of game of thrones since George still hasn’t finished his own story
@@eldertoguro1 both sides are at fault, George told them they needed at least 10 seasons even 13. There was enough source material for 10 to 11 seasons
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 proof that george told them they needed 10-13 seasons?
@@sydnitheromantictaylor112 Bunk. Once Martin got that contract signed, he started acting like the egotistical little prima donna he is. Dan and Dave were caught in some ugly power plays between the factions who hold the purse strings and the one who thought he had a stranglehold on creativity. Martin has lost so much respect and good will from his business associates, supporters, and fanbase, however, that his influence is now negligible.
@@eldertoguro1they had more than enough source material for a few more seasons lol they pushed it and fucked it.
Varys deserved better 😢 He brought so many great scenes and dialogue.
Many characters "deserved better". That's a lot of the point of GofT. Death comes for people when it suits death, not when it suits the character.
@@BaalsMistress Nah, usually death came to people when D&D didn't quite know what to do with them anymore or when they needed a "shocking twist" (see Barristan Selmy). That worked when it was set up and (pardon the pun) executed properly, but they so very much failed that premise throughout the later seasons.
Varys was always one of my favorite characters on the show!!! Sake they went out their way to ruin him later in the series🤦♂️
His feeling were 100% valid
I agree. He was a great character. Really a big part in GOT. I know the ride has to end but dang. The problem was they had the books to lean on in the beginning. Then when it really started to take work after they used up all the story line and had to get creative, they didn't.
This is why the show was so great. Even the actors bought in 100%. They cared so much, and an 8-year TV series will have its imperfections, so knowing that some of these actors left unfulfilled just fits the overall excellence of the experience. Love it.
His character went downhill for 1 reason; characters are only as smart as the people who write them, and D&D are fully on the spectrum. You have the first 4 seasons based off of George’s writing, and then the final 4 seasons and he’s a completely different character. They all were completely different characters, and you can see how bad and fraudulent they are as writers.
Good point
D&D were in way over their head. With a story as complex as Ice and fire, even good writers would have a hard time trying to finish where George RR left off. And D&D are definitely not good writers, just look at their previous works. Even George himself apparently doesn't know how to finish the last two books....and Varys didn't even do anything. He was just the weather man basically just telling Dany what was going on yet not really offering any real advice or doing his usual political moves behind the scenes . That and just hanging out with Tyrion and being the butt of his cock jokes.
@@twistedinnocence8617right...the last seasons would have been great if they had George material to rip from. But like you said, even George doesn't know how to resolve these plotlines in a way that's satisfying, which is why there's still no book
“on the spectrum”. You mean autism? If so, autism doesn’t automatically make you dimwitted/intellectually stunted.
Varys' descent into stupidity was one of the worst aspects of the latter half of the show, along with Tyrion, of course. I think the biggest problem for them with running out of novels to adapt was that they didn't have GRRM's dialogue anymore. D&D were clearly good at adapting stories and I think they can also write their own if they actually try hard enough, but if you have a character whose appeal is basically 95% how he conducts himself in dialogue sequences and you're trying to imitate how someone else wrote him - it's basically impossible. Especially if you're in a hurry to get it over with.
Nobody will ever be able to make me see anything positive about the last 2 seasons. It was a huge middle finger to the world. I’m not saying metaphorically. I firmly believe that’s what it was because it felt that way. But also because of what Dan and Dave said about all the criticism. Screw those two. Proof that people need to learn how to fail. They did fail. But there was zero virtue in their failure
Every line Conleth speaks is a masterclass in acting. His scansion/delivery is genius. The finest male actor in the show (still watching third season).
The intro still gives me chills. That Season 1-4 energy is special.
Varys is one of the best characters in this story and I was heartbroken how the show “ended” him.
We all loved the actors first of all so. remember that this show was made for those of us who fell in love with every aspect of GOT... "All of us as the Audience felt Pissed on" Varys was & is the very best of us fighting our way to a better life.
Varys and Littlefinger's little bickering sessions were some of my favorite moments from the show. They both played their parts to perfection. I don't think either of them were meant to be main characters but you can't create influence merchants and then write away their influence. That their rivalry had no closure is also pretty annoying.
I guess D&D 'kinda forgot' that Varys used to be the best character.....
D&D did Varys dirty!!!! He was one of the best characters and didn't deserve the ending they gave him. I was angry at Littlefinger's death too, same with the Hound!! WTF??? Ugh, I sure hope we get a rewrite.
The hound was total fanfiction come to life. People said it would be cool if the Hound fought the mountain and what did they do? They did that very thing. There was no reason for the hound to even be in the red keep.
Peters sarcasm at the end is hilarious. 😂
Sarcasm, perhaps. If he ever bites the hands that gave him the best role of his career, then he deserves to not have one.
I wonder how many of the cast would come back if they were told they could do the show properly and have three final seasons at 13 episodes each would comeback just to do justice to the characters and have bran just dream that nightmare of winter.
No one does 13 episodes anymore. Each episode of season 8 cost approximately $15m. The cast is one thing, but getting the same crew reassembled would be impossible, and you all underestimate their value and contributions to the series.
@@tessdurberville711 i consider anyone that was working on the show part of the cast. Guess I should have said cast and crew. Honestly Dan and Dave weren’t so bad til they said we need to do something else like Star Wars. Kinda funny to think they were considered some of the best for a while.
@@TheDemonking82
Apparently they still are. They have a $200m development deal at Netflix. Their first new series debuts in January featuring three former Game of Thrones actors.
@@tessdurberville711lol these projects were all scrapped … D&D were fired retroactively because of how they screwed GoT
They did him so dirty .. he was one of my most favourite characters ever & always will be ! Thank you Conleth for gracing us with your presence throughout the series ! So amazingly talented & I hope to see him on tv again ❤
Varys and Littlefinger had some of the best scenes in the show. They deserved one last scene together
I loved Varys. He was an incredible character. D and D should have stepped down and allowed writers with the time, intelligence and loyalty to the show and the fans to Continue with this epic story. As GRRM said, there was enough source material to give us anothe 4 seasons. It could have been absolutely phenomenal.
It's still to me the greatest show I've ever seen but when I get to season 8 I just can't watch. I literally grieved the loss of GOT and to an extent still do. Such a shame 😞
Blame Casey Bloys and whoever drew up the contracts. If they did not have a clause stating that the series could be continued with other writers, in case of illness, death, etc. then they are the ones who deserve your wrath, not the showrunners who did a wonderful job under those circumstances.
@@tessdurberville711 oh you' re delusional. DnD at anytime could have hired other writers or chose to pass the show on. They didn't. Wait? Dan is that you?
@@Bodharas Exactly 😆
@@Bodharas
No, unlike all of you closet "writers" who do not have the faintest idea how it all works in the real world.
Okay, sure buddy.@@tessdurberville711
You dont need go to recent news, at his day, the actor of Ser Barristan say the same. He read the books. He knows that his characters dont die, not yet (end the books martin), and he wrote a letter to Dave and Dan complaining an telling how bad was the idea of killing the character. What they do? They laugh, even when tell that story in a interview, and ignore the actor.
Varys is the character I miss most from the show, he was my favorite! Conleth Hill brought that character to life brilliantly in that I wanted to know more about Varys but at the same time didn't want the mystery to end.
If GRRM should finish the book, I wonder if the dirty little secrets behind the scenes about what happened behind the scenes would come out then. I don't think it would come out before. But you never know!
The biggest problem is that just about all the endings were rushed an unearned, and that was a big contrast to a series (and a series of books) that took their time and made sure everything was earned.
Ngl ngl not surprised he was that pissed off given how good the last chapter with him in was in a dance of dragons with 🤞 more to come in TWOW
The interview was expected because his character deserved more, but the compilation of videos was cool thank you.😊
Varys was done dirty in the name of expediency. I completely agree with Mr. Hill. He had every right to be disgusted and upset. I don't think Dany should have been the villain that she was made into in the last 3 episodes of the series. I understand the whole subverting expectations crap the D&D pushed but the story arcs just did not meet, or if they did, not in a manner that made any kind of sense. Now I will say that there were some characters that I thought met their end in the series that made absolute sense. Little Finger, Dondarion, Jonah Mormont, Misandei....they all met an end that made sense in the story. Personally, I was hoping the Tyrion would get the W for killing Cersei. Someone will prolly argue this with me but I think that Sansa was the ONLY character that had a storyline that was consistent and fully fleshed out in the series. Yes, I know Ned and Drogo's were complete as well but they did not last the entire series, unlike Sansa. Bran, John and Arya all got short changed. I mean, how in the hell did Bran go from 3eyed Raven to King of Westeros?? And Arya.....how in the hell did she become the savior of Westeros when that should have been John?? I was willing to suspend disbelief about season 7 hoping that 8 would be fulfilling and answer some questions. I did not even watch the very last episode as I was so disgusted with how the previous 5 had gone. Even to this day, when I rewatch the series, I stop at season 7 because of the bad taste that season 8 left me with.
Little Finger technically isn’t low born since Lord of the Fingers. He is higher than a landed knight like Gregor Clegane but is low as low born as lord could be…
I think that the reason more of the cast hasn't spoken against the show runners is because of contractual limitations. It is pretty common to have a contract clause that goes along the lines of not bad mouthing the project for some period of time after the project is finished. I imagine a bunch of those agreements are beginning to expire.
I understand Vary's disappointment, but the real crime here is Littlefinger -_- The smartest most cunning guy in the whole show got outplayed by a couple of teens. Chaos is a ladder that allows you to get just close enough to the blade so it can cut your throat apparently.
I would've been completely fine with how it ended if things were fleshed out better and not rushed. Also hated how the Night King was taken out cause that was the one thing that made absolutely zero sense, same with who became King. Everything else I can see how it'd get to that point, it just needed to be developed more. Certain foreshadowing was there, but it means nothing if you rush to get there.
Daenerys should have been written out in season 4. Tiresome, petulant teenager.
Plot developments, character motivations, and clues that went nowhere were all problems but the problems were even deeper- the dialogue is what I really noticed, felt like I wasn't even watching the same show anymore
My main issue with the end of the series was that it was too rushed. I liked the individual entries, but the arc was too short. Why did they not show more of the interplay between Jon and Dani after the revelation of his birthright? Why did Jon's birthright not come up before the council? Although there were signs of Dani's mental/emotional shortcomings throughout the seasons, they should have devoted a lot more time to her final descent into madness.
I also agree with Conleth Hill's thought that there should have been a final exchange between Varys and Littlefinger.
I am very certain that the end in its whole direction will happen in the books as well. After all GRRM was still involved. The books will just do an infinitely better job of leading up to it. Sure, some characters are in a different place (some just from merely existing) but I have that feeling that GRRM will go for that bittersweet ending.
"The books will just do an infinitely better job of leading up to it." Well they might... if they even come into existence....
Everyone in the cast of GOT was phenomenal and many of them did get robbed. Only a few truly had justice done to their character on D&D's part. Brienne, Sandor, and the Lannisters really got the endings that they deserved. The one cast member that I have mixed feeling about is Daenerys. I don't think the show did a good job of leading up to her becoming the Mad Queen, but I think that the hints that lead up to that have been sprinkled throughout the story in both the show and ASOIAF. I have little doubt that GRRM will flush that out much better.
Flesh.
@@tessdurberville711 LOL bro, clearly you got the point. I'm not trying to write the next ASOIAF novel here.
@@thaddeusnallphilosophersst6855
Then you must also be the only one not boasting about being able to write a better series ending.
Calling a lady "Bro" is very inappropriate.
@@tessdurberville711 Lol my bad bro, I was using "bro" in a gender neutral way
@@tessdurberville711 brooo calm down lmao
I completely understand his feelings. I could see his reaction at the table reading was very telling.
It's still engrained in my head his reaction to his reading of his character
I agree 100% that the last few seasons were rushed. The multi-character show became much more narrow, more focused on specific single characters than the relationships that had been built. The last season was way too fast. I still wonder to this day what had happened to make it end as quickly as it did.
I’ve heard that HBO originally wanted a minimum of 10 seasons and the two writers were on board until Disney offered them a contract for Star Wars so they started rushing GoT but it went so poorly the contract was rescinded
I didn't mind Varys not being all knowing. A large part of that had to do with his knowledge of the Red Keep and it's secret passages.
Once he left there, he seemed to be more involved in putting information out rather than collecting it, which I think is fine.
But they ended his character, and the show without a care for whether or not it was any good. If they were tired of doing GoT, they should have gotten out of the way, and let someone else finish it.
It's hard to recommend Game Of Thrones to anyone given how it fell completely apart over the last 3 seasons.
The first 5 seasons were magic though, masterful storytelling
Well, it's true he can't take it personally. It wasn't just Varys that was thrown away, it was everyone, the whole show and the bathwater. From the beginning, there were hints that Weiss and Benioff were out of their element any time they strayed from Martin's source material and it was made abundantly clear how far in the deep end of the pool they were floundering when they sloppily cut off the Dorne plot and turned the Sand Snakes into cartoons marking the beginning of the precipitous decline.
It's like that scene in Vanilla Sky where Weiss and Benioff starts recklessly driving through red lights and the rest of us are like, "Stop the car."
Watch the scene for more context. heh.
He was without a doubt misused the last few seasons a character with that intellectual level of schemes and plots it was a sad outcome as an understatement
Yesss Imo the earlier seasons were so good bc they were built on schemes & plots. To me that was missing.
Just another man ruined by becoming involved with Daenerys.
Daenaerys turning makes complete sense. The shortened final seasons and pacing screwed a lot of it up.
Even Emmy-winning actors couldn’t pretend to like the ending during their interviews. 😂
... 4 years passed and my heart is still bleeding. 💔
How on earth do you deal with real life problems if you cannot manage a fantasy tv series?
It was sad watching Varys and Tyrion get “dumber” in the last 2 seasons.
I completely agree with your assessment of the rushed season and that there was no closure between Varies and little finger. Also because I read the books, I was disappointed that some characters like rob’s mother who was brought back to life to avenge Robs death wasn’t explored. In my opinion they could have done another season.
I agree the last season was rushed and should have been alot better, but idk how no one seen Dany becoming the bad guy coming. We seen how power hungry she became, how many people she killed for not submitting to her, then we see Sansa not bending to her. What do yall think would have happened if Jon let her live?
He wasn’t the only one upset I’m still seething over this show’s ending and how badly they fucked up. I have never re-watched it since it finished
We will never forgive D&D for the last 2 seasons... never !
or the writer actually. They just adapters I think, and they did a good job doing that. Not their fault GRRM didn't plan. Their writing still sucks but.
honestly i dont care if the books from now on go exactly as the internet predict it, because i know ill enjoy reading them anyway. its the way its written and the story that i like, not that its unpredictable. people know how fairytales go but still tell them over and over anyway because they enjoy them. being unpredictable isnt always the best thing
Martin will never publish them. They are the same as the series.
Littlefinger and Varys both were betrayed by the horrible writing in the last several seasons. The sad part is they weren't even the most-ruined characters, I'm pretty sure Jamie, Tyrion, and Jon got it worst, though you could argue the lack of substance turning Daenerys "mad" in the blink of an eye was the worst.
Littlefinger is definitely a top contestant for most ruined.
Even though he was a bastard, he was a magnificent one for how smartly he handled things. An then, when this genius character who relies entirely on deception, has his own evil motto quoted at him by Bran, the known seer whose family he destroyed.... his reaction is to keep hanging around and wait to be exposed?
It’s been four years. People should learn to move on from disappointment and grow up.
I feel that this whole series should be done in animation as well..I would love to see the character images as they are described in the books
Animated shows are SOO much more expensive and labor intensive to make, and if you're already doin' 15M an episode stuff,..... I think they are doing a YiTi animation or something, definitely something takin place in this world would be awesome. And If it were possible to wish the entire series animated to exist, I would. It's just not a feasible goal.
Varys was one of my favorites characters they really did him dirty
They could just say the last season was a dream and redo it.
The video of the read thru is so telling. He reads his death, throws it on the table, pushes the script as far as possible from him, crossed his arms and frowned.
I will never forgive HBO for what they did to Sir Barristan selmy
I'm really glad the actors aren't scared anymore and are speaking the truth now..
Conleth is spot on
I think, that pretty much everything and everyone was misshandled at the end of the show. And by "end of the show", I mean everything after the book adaptation in season 4 and when d&d started to make things up on their own.
Literally no one would complain over a GoT season 8 remake. Video games do it all the time.
I think you are on to something. It will definitely bring in $ and only a small amout to whine about it. We the fans deserve a remake 😂
You do realize the cast are people with their own lives and careers, right? They’re not sitting around waiting to redo a show
@@eldertoguro1
Did the cast build the sets and dress them, design and create the costumes, compose the score, create the special effects, etc. etc. etc?
No one ever thinks of the crew, the artists, the builders, the craftsmen. These comments are so disrespectful.
HBO needs to do a one off show about the "Night King" and the first long night! That would be a surefire hit!
He wanted to live up to people's expectations.
D&D wanted to subvert people's expectations.
Seeing how things went, guess who was right
Just retcon to an earlier season as a fever dream
I definitely agree with him on how the show was rushed at the end. Felt like they just wanted it over with already and ruined the end in the process to one of the greatest shows ever
We were just as frustrated 😢 but I'm sure the actors were more so. Emilia was in shock and asked her mom if she thought Dany was a bad person 😕
She was! Anyone who could not see that needs to study psychology.
@@tessdurberville711 No she wasn't. They ruined her. They ruined every female character in that show. Guessing you're a Sansa person 🙄🙄. Also guessing you know nothing about how Dany grew up. I don't need to study psychology to know what it's like to live in constant fear for the first 16/17 years of my life. Pft. Tf out of my replies with that bs.
@@NessaBear90she had glimpses of being the same as every other tyrannical ruler throughout the whole show, thank you for proving exactly why it was so easy for idiots to not realise that's where her character was going, it's not about "Danny Vs sansa" and saying that proves that you're nothing more than an armchair fan who doesn't think deep into the shows themes you just go "my favourite character=good person" it's about the fact that dany was always going to be a bad person and thinking she wasn't means you blatantly ignored her character because "Yaas girlboss you go queen" that's the only reason people don't think dany will become evil which is the worste reason ever
@@NessaBear90the way someone grew up doesn't stop them from being a bad person
@@user-op6kt8pg9y Everyone did. Lol. Literally EVERYONE.
Tyrion betraying Varys to his death and showing no remorse for the friendship they had developed made absolutely ZERO logical sense.
I think the last two seasons get hammered because people and maybe even the actors had in their heads how things would end. When they didn't end that way it created disappointment. I think the ending for most of these characters was written on the wall seasons in advance and folks choose to ignore it.
I think it's mainly because in order for the ending to happen in that short a time, every character became a moron to ensure the plot happened. None of the characters acted in line with how their arcs were developing at all. Bad character writing, mostly
So Peter is happy about Tyrion becoming “the Court Jester”?? Incapable of intelligent thought. A lot of the fans read the books & understand the source material better
Imo, HBO also holds a big part of the blame for the last 2 seasons. They said all along they wanted 10 seasons but D&D didn't. They moment they said no, HBO should have fired them on the spot and bring in dedicated writers (like Ryan Condal for example) to finish the story properly. HBO knows they are to blame for not firing D&D when they should have, which is why they insisted in House Of The Dragon being made and with that, to make some kind of amends. GOT is over and nothing will change the final 2 seasons. I'm one of those people who loves to see the bigger picture, which is GOT was a generational phenomenon, a story that has captivated viewers for a decade and that raised the bar high in the sky for television fantasy. Not even the rushed final 2 seasons are enough for me to stop considering GOT as the greatest show ever. I just love it to damn much.
Die hard fans are not Re-watching the GoT series, unlike other fan favorite ones, simply bec of the 'bad ending'.
I see so much hate for GOT creators, Weiss and Benioff, that they screwed up the ending or couldn't wait to end it while delivering short seasons. I think they suffered a lot from not being able to lean on RR Martin's books in the last seasons. However, I have to appreciate them the fact that they picked up the material and made an awesome adaptation. I'm guessing that they got some direction from RR Martin for the ending, but they just didn't have the creative ability to fill out the story arcs and to fill out 8 to 10 episodes in the last season's. It's a massive weight and burden to come up with that original material and adapt it to the screen. That's why I just can't be too hard on those two. I, for one, thank them for enriching my life with GOT for eight seasons, for which I would not have otherwise been exposed to it. They may not have been great at developing original material. But they were outstanding at adapting good source material. I hope we can all overlook their mediocre GOT landing and let them adapt something else. I bet they will do an awesome job.
A rational & rare response.
Varys betrays a 'queen' who constantly has people put to death for betrayals, and everyone's surprised.
And Danaerys' ending? Jon Snow kills Danaerys, just as he was killed by his compadres at the wall. He was brought back to life after days of lying on a table. No one imagines that the dragon carried Danaerys back to the east where SHE would be brought back to life?
That's my take on the ending. She was always crazy and made many bad decisions. The show was mainly a study in human fallacies, and the lead character was always Arya.
Varys was easily one of my favorite characters. I hoped there would be a deeper story behind his history.
I dont have a problem with it, and I have realized it could be because I did not watch it over the 10 years, I binge it earlier this year. Those who did, they had to wait week by week and season by season and that caused a lot of anticipation and expectation from own imagination. However, the series showed exactly what was going to happen the entire time, especially as of 6. First, Arya story, what exactly think she was training for with unknown? Dany visions, SHE CLEARLY SAW A DISTROYED THROWN AND THAT SHE WOULD NOT BE QUEEN. There must be a reasons SHE did it, it ended that way on purpose, very open ended BECAUSE THE BOOKS ARE NOT YET COMPLETED.
thrown?
I can't even bother a re-watch when season 6-8 are unwatchable
I just hope Snow happens in my lifetime.
1) Keep Kit sober.
Am just glad he's confirming even he thought they did Varys dirty, instead of him being "the all knowing character he had been" they clearly rushed, doing away with character development across the board really.
Are these actors afraid of getting blacklisted if they speak freely?
Yes
Conleth and Aidan as Varys and Littlefinger were 2 of my favorite characters, always fascinating and entertaining to watch.
Dany was a villain from the time she encouraged the Dothraki to take slaves so that she could rule people that she had never met
This story needs another much much faithfull to the books adaptation!
Emilia was mad about becoming the villain.
Erm, it had been building towards that for several seasons and she wasn't really the villain in that situation, that was on Cersei.
D&D weren't building Daenerys to be a villain. Not at all. Or if they actually were - they've done a shitty job.
@@Harahvaiti
Before that final season, when she burned that father alive in front of his kid, was that not a villain move? 🤔
And tbh, she wasn't the villain in the burning of kings landing, Cersei was. It's just the snowflakes on the internet who jumped on the bandwagon wouldn't stop crying about Dany doing what was necessary to win after Cersei had her best friends head cut off and refused to surrender after being given days and days and warning after warning
@@KitanaiharE Tarlys were traitors. And they were well aware of it. Cersei offered old man Tarly rule over the Reach on exchange for him turning against Tyrells. Boltons did the same against Starks. Old man Tarly refused to acknowledge Daenerys as a queen, retaining loyal to Cersei and his death was well deserved. His not so clever son followed him. Traitors die in Westeros.
@@Harahvaiti
So we can understand Dany doing what she had to do in that instance, but folks had to have a cow about her doing what she had to do to put down Cersei, who refused to surrender? 🤔