It’s the midi-chlorians and I hate them because each step we take further from the GHOST CHILDREN HAUNTING ROBOTS is plain bad story telling. I want to hear less *how* and more *why*
On the “mimic/Burntrap” idea about Security Breach and Ruin: Gregory creates the comic versions of the other endings to SB. We know he draws real world inspiration, he must have seen the Tangle when he and presumably Vanny went down to where MXES is. Burntrap doesn’t necessarily have to be identical to what was shown in SB, but if not, where did Gregory get his inspiration? Vanny, if she remembered or perhaps documented her plan, would be able to, as Vanessa, tell Gregory about it. Burntrap may have been the end goal, but Gregory interrupted her before she could complete it. Alternatively, Burntrap was always planning to double cross Vanny. He wanted Freddy as his body, and was manipulating Gregory to get all the improvements installed in Freddy and then bring him to the basement for Glitchtrap to take him over. Taken a step further, it’s possible that whole idea of Burntrap trying to take over Freddy was actually something that Gregory included because of his own subconscious fear that he may still be under Glitchtrap’s control.
The only question I would have is why does Cassie recognize Gregory's comics? I am assuming with that question that Cassie met and was friends with Gregory before Security Breach, that the end of SB resulted in the closing of the Pizzaplex (because the animatronics haven't been repaired), that Gregory hasn't been seen by Cassie since the collapse (otherwise she would be confused that he is trapped down there), and that Gregory must therefore have made these comics before SB, because how would Cassie's bday party have happened after SB? One thought as a possible answer is that Gregory remembers seeing Burntrap and the Blob, etc... from when he was GGY. Maybe not even conscious memory of it, but is drawing it because he remembers the images without context.
@@profcommie I’m guessing Gregory made other comics that Cassie has seen. So she recognizes the style of the comics as she finds them in the pizzaplex.
I personally think that the books are technically canon in the sense that they are supposed to represent or indirectly point to specific characters, locations, or aspects in the canon timeline. I don’t think that they are meant to be literally in-universe canon (because of Sea Bonnies and Faz-Goo are canon in the same universe as the games, that would be stupid), but rather Scott just suggesting (in his usual confusing and vague storytelling) that these stories are in some way connecting to something in the mainstream universe. Just my two cents! Great episode, glad to see the theorizing community still working hard!
Fazbear Entertainment has been the second biggest villain in this franchise ever since the first game, when we learned through the phone calls that they are actively covering up the deaths of their employees and removing any and all evidence from the crime scene before the police are ever even called
I mean, they’re probably doing that to not get sued more than trying to kill off employees. It is still horrible but it’s more of a very scummy business practice than them doing it out of malice
32:10 Until the corners cut back. 1:05:34 I image it would be like a scene in one of the Spooky Month episodes, where he briefly imitates holding up a pie and then goes back to attacking you. 1:05:43 Odd ship name, but aight. 1:09:40 Do note that the company just tends to dispose of the bodies after they get stuffed, as heavily implied by his Night 1 phone call. I personally think he possesses his phone, since it goes off on its own long after he's dead. 1:26:00 I fully agree that they deserve more attention, but on the topic of the phantoms: aren't there more phantoms than Toys? In particular, there are two Foxy-themed phantoms: Foxy and Mangle. What does that mean? Was Foxy's spirit split apart even more?
My guess for the phantom animatronics is that they are a natural version of illusion discs. The staticky audio in fazbear frights could cause the phantom animatronics to exist
I think that the Funtime Freddy head is more of a Helpy head, and the game's version of the Storyteller is the Tangle running the Helpy system until it got trashed and thrown into the pit, probably for doing agony-based things.
Problem is that the building that had the ballora attraction is the same one with the happs tube maze, the roleplay theatre and the ar booths so it probably in a different plex.
1:22:45 the amount of supernatural stories that switch to a science fiction explanation midway through is too high for my liking. Looking at you, midichlorians and the Stand virus….
Could the person leaving the V.A.N.N.I. mask and other stuff in Ruin be Tapegirl? She was taken over be Glitchtrap as well, right? For if the books are canon I would suggest checking out Brensnorf. He makes some really solidly built and argumented theories, though I don't agree with everything he says, they are still really good!
Most people say Tape Girl is Vanessa currently. I absolutely think it's not possible, but I don't think Tape Girl was taken over by Glitchtrap otherwise why would he need Vanessa, so I feel like either he failed his chance at merging with her, and so she escaped, left FE, so Vanessa was brought in to be her replacement. That gives us an answer as to what happened to TG, and why Vanessa plays the game, if she's not needed.
Since the animatronics think adults are endoskeletons, they (probably) wouldn't bother with an endoskeleton, the guard wouldn't possess them unless the suits are what they latch on to. So no, Phone Guy wouldn't possess any animatronic (nowadays.)
Do they think adult's are endo's? I thought the kids thought adults were William but the official company explanation was that they think adults are endo's?
the books of fnaf have a secret things buddy you but you maybe right that they kinda canon because of something idk if is maybe right but maybe little bit like who we see a new person or old but he changed be like ruin like burntrap and bob the one of head of Funtime Freddy (please answer my question if is that right or wrong okay thank you for read my comment)
Tales in my opinion isn't canon due to the first ever tales story frailty which has a character named jessica who was a victim of Eleanor from fazbear frights. In the story she talks about how she once wanted to be beatiful but not anymore, she had a heart shaped locket which when she carved she got less beatiful and when she carved all of it off she turned into scraps, when she kisses the love interest ink/oil stains his lips, and her tears which are ink/oil stain and pour on her dress
@@novustalks7525in a series with killer chuck-e-cheese robots, animatronic birthing, and injectable soul juice, I think time travel isn't much of a stretch lol
My big, ultimate hesitation with the Mimic is that I'm worried the writers will fall into the Imitator Enemy trap, and the Mimic will just be this bland, personality-less robot. I don't think they'll do that, but I do still worry that they will considering how *easy* it is to do that with a Mimic type character. Edit: if FNaF1 takes place after the establishment closed down, maybe Phone Guy's death was the proverbial straw that broke the Fazbear's back, and that's ultimately what closed the location down. Like yeah the hygiene and safety issues were referenced in articles, but maybe the last straw was their longest-lasting employee's corpse like 12 feet away from the main room.
this is my issue with the mimic. its characerication in the books makes it a stupid ai with no urge to kill only folowing orders and being incapable of detecting what its doing. this does not a villain make.
@@Markcrazeer Done right, a machine just doing its job can actually be significantly more dangerous than someone who understands. You can't easily predict something with no motive.
@@ForgedinPrint dangerous? Yes. A compelling bbeg? No. Not with such a predictable madness. We know Why it is mad. Even if its actions can not be predicted.
@Markcrazeer if knowing the motive is enough for a creature to stop being scary, well most media (at least American and European media) has the motive somewhere, which should make them not scary. Saw guy? Wants to punish the people for their past crimes Amnesia? We know the motives of pretty much everything in the earlier games at least. Even everyone involved in fnaf motives are known. Do I personally find any of this scary? Not really. Are these things popular due to how effective they were, some even to the point of changing how horror is done? Yes.
In regards to Fazbear Frights, I think a point in Rye’s favor would be “Coming Home.” It’s got the same ghost rules as “Alone Together,” AND features straight-up Susie from the MCI. BUT they make a very specific point to say she has brown hair and eyes, with her doll Gretchen looking more like game!Suzie. FNAF6 was out by then so they knew what Suzie looked like; so her looking different but having the same story is very. Interesting
I mean everything stating the canonicity if frights has said that only some of frights takes place in the games canon, so that could be an explanation for that, and the authors also said that they haven't seen all past material, so they might not have known certain things from past sources unless Scott told them about it or it was important, which Susie's hair was not
It is made very clear in the marketing that the level of connection for these stories varies. The "stitchline", the line of stories connecting to the stitchwraith stingers, has no such issues.
@@BunBit_it does have a issue though it says the mci has six victims even though in the games it has five also the body’s were found in the stichline which they weren’t found because they were stuffed in the suit
Except Coming Home's Susie _isn't_ the one from the MCI, since MCI Susie is _long dead_ by that point. She just has a similar name and is playing Fruity Maze. EDIT: I thought you were talking about a bit from Tales, my bad.
I myself wouldn't consider the Fnaf books as Canon but they definitely are important, for an instance we have Mimic he wasn't Canon until Ruin released does it now mean that he's Glitchtrap? Maybe Yes, Maybe No because Ruin gave us as few informations about Mimic as possible so we just can wait for HW2 to see what happens.
It's interesting cause glitch trap was from a circuit bored. Which if glitch was mimic then it's a question of how did mimic get its circuit bored back to function.
Idk if it's just me, but I think it's weird to have a book series (Silver eyes) that isn't in continuity, then have one that is (frights/tales). I mean they are quite different in method and execution, but it's still 'stories' so
I think theres 2 things that will always prevent me from beliving the fazbear frights or tales books are canon. Those being that any of the "oh [specific detail] is INTENTIONAL and means all these [LESS SPECIFIC DETAIL] add up to book happen, so on and so forth. This argument can be used on both sides and from literally anything from game or book, cancelling each other out at any point. The second reason being the appearance of burntrap in security breach is a occams razor scenario: its way simpler and likely that the animatronic with human bits is the remains of the animatronic infamous for having a corpse inside. While I'm super on board with the likelihood that vanny repaired and fixed up burntrap to put glitchtrap (who is not the mimic, still haven't heard any GOOD evidence stating Glitchtrap=mimic other than that HW gametheory that doesn't fit with glitchtrap's implications in security breach, appearance and the "always come back" from HW moblie release) into that vessel. Thats just my 2 cents thought. PLEASE let Ryes recent moves to work with so many other Theorists and agreeing with many of them, and Mat's recent incredible theory on the topic, its really well said and deserves the communities time and should work as the jumping off point going foreward like what the timeline they worked there asses off on shouldve/couldve been.
The heart pendant around Eleanors neck is remnant. You should read the epilogue for fazbear freights first then read the rest of the stories. It'll help point out what stories it weaves through. In the forth book "Step Closer" the story " Dance with Me" is about a set of glasses that has a strange Ballora hologram that falls into that strange blur of vr/ar that fnaf has now.
1:11:00 I highly disagree and fully believe that the pizzeria is closed in fnaf 1, because the new Freddy's is also closed during the fnaf 2 gameplay (November on the paycheck, phone guy says it's summer). Both sets of phone guy calls seem recorded for previous night guards. Both restaurants are dirty and covered in cobwebs, fnaf 2 still has birthday decorations up as if a party had been rented (including a wet floor sign in a party room potentially relating to the bite).
40:28 If Burntrap's body parts aren't entirely Afton's then could some of them come from the missing people from the alley ending newspaper? 1:08:55 I think Golden Freddy's "IT'S ME" messages were originally supposed to be Phone Guy telling Mike he was stuffed into the suit. He asked Mike to check the back room where the suits are kept, then he got stuffed Golden Freddy while he was in suit mode. I used to believe that his struggling triggered the spring locks and that's what the cut scene at the end of UCN is. 1:10:14 If he's not in Golden Freddy maybe he's in the spare Freddy suit we see in the Game Over screen, unless that's supposed to be Mike. 1:10:30 If Phone Guy did get stuffed then removed from a suit, it would explain why Golden Freddy says "IT'S ME" and is in suit mode. Phone Guy struggles during the stuffing, setting off the spring locks and killing him. Someone finds him after listening to the prerecorded training tapes and unwinds the spring locks to get him out of the suit. Now Golden Freddy is in suit mode again and possessed by 2-3 spirits.
Almost done watching and holy moly I love the way you guys interact, it really feels like you two are good friends with how easily you guys joke around
I have a theory that the Tales books and Security Breach games are telling the same story but in different perspectives. Here's my evidence and thought process: Eleanor from Fazbear Frights is referenced in Lally's games meaning Tales is canon to Frights and Security Breach happens in the books but with lots of differences. We all basically agree to an extent that Frights is primarily just to provide hints as well as to pave the way for the future of FNAF and that everything isn't 1 for 1 in the games. To me this implies that the Tales books aren't telling the exact same story as the games either but rather are instead telling the same story with the events that follow the Frights version of FNAF. So if we really have to follow the books we should only take the books as fact and reference the events of the games, *not the points or timeline*. Think of it this way, the Tales books are focused on primarily the Mimic while the games up until Ruin were focused on Glitchtrap which evolved separate from the Mimic code from HW with William's agony/spirit taking over it. This seems like common knowledge now but what I propose is that the events in Tales/Frights happened in the games but replacing the in game events with the book (Frights) versions of them and don't relate to the game characters. For instance: William's agony being spread to all the Fazbear Entertainment property in the warehouse in the Frights version parallels the Mimic code spreading throughout Fazbear Entertainment then being taken over by Glitchtrap. The Mimic Endo being taken to the Pizzaplex by the workers is the book version of Fazbear Entertainment not only using the animatronics for code but literally using everything in the FNAF franchise to make the Pizzaplex. What do you think, and please be respect and constructive 🙃
At this point the fnaf lore I desperately just need is Mrs. Afton finally getting a canon first name. Let the woman have that at least like damn. More lore would be great but cmon.
I think the mimic is a mimic because of the physical changes it can undergo but that as a learning algorithm also learns by mimicking it is undergoing a similar process. It doesn't exactly mimic once given enough data it can create wholely new actions and motivations.
I wonder how many nightguards were stuffed into suites leading up to FNAF 1? The fact there are power-based doors to the security office when the last location had none implies that there were enough guards to fall victim for the company to even bother putting in doors. The fact the Phone Guy recording is a recording also implies the security guard in FNAF 1 may not be the first guard after Phone Guy's demise.
Mimic is an awful villain, just tell it to divide by zero and it would explode instantly Problem solved. Also monty is the best security breach animatronic and I will not hear otherwise. I'm open to feedback.
My problem with books being canon is the problems that comes with it, I can see why people think books are in games continuity, but for me personally not really for example in the man in room 1280 its said the man was there for year or decades, but that cant be possible since FFPS is in 2023 and storyteller 2024, thats just break the timeline, and TFTP were said to be a follow up series to frights, another thing is yes the mimic endo, in games vanny uses freddy to make a path down to labyrinth, which is underneath the pizzeria, but mimic in epilouges isnt stuck in labyrinth, so it doesnt make sense to me why would she then make a path to labyrinth, and its said mimic was trapped there for a long time, because of mxes, the security, he wouldnt be trapped for a long time if it was after SB events, since both Cassie and Gregory are kids, and if he was stuck there and kept down by mxes how can he be glitchtrap or burntrap or different question how can tiger rock or storyteller happen, since in these scenarios mimic isnt stuck, and with the tangle point yes tangle take burntrap in the end, but throughout the fight tangle helps burntrap too Sorry for long text....
Sooo, I've had this random theory for a while now. Sorta a "hear me out bro" thought. What if, the Afton and Emily children have the same mother, and the crying child was Michael's half brother, and the game's version of Sammy Emily. Just some supporting speculation: If Immortal and the Restless is an accurate representation of Michael's mother (gunna call her Clara for the sake of my sanity)and William's relationship, then it's likely they weren't married when Michael was born. For Michael to be a teen in 1983, he would have been born in the early 70's. Clara, being a single mother in the 70's, would likely look to marry anyone else as quickly as possible in order to give her son a stable life. Then along comes Henry.
I've had this same theory too! There is only some loosely supporting evidence, all circumstantial at best. Both Clara and Charlotte's mother look nearly identical. Same bob-cut blonde hair with side bangs and brown eyes. In one of the concept sketches for Clara, she has Cresent earrings which are not the same as Charlotte's mother's round earrings. However, Ballora and Charlotte's mother both have round earrings, gold and pink respectively. Another interesting thing to note is when Ballora sings about an empty tomb in her song, Clara also mentions that Vlad's(William) house was more like a morgue in there. So there is _something_ connecting these three characters. But if we wanted to keep making color connections, the fact that the Emily's are usually associated with green and purple with Afton's, Clara and Vlad both have green and purple colors on. I think this is just a fun theory to also add to William's loathing of Henry too if he views the Emily's as the perfect family, with Clara being in a previous relationship with William before Henry, just another thing he views Henry stealing from him.
@@simpmoodles5265 Something else I've realized, a LOT of Michael parallels in the Fazbear Frights series have a step-parent. Their half/step sibling being treated better than them is usually their motive for bullying the young sibling.
@SamDragontear Scott is definitely trying to tell us something, I still think about that comment about FNAF SL "One thing is actually the other way" something Fuhnaff brought up in one of his videos. Oh, another weird thing I noticed is in the Immortal and the Restless, when Clara mentions his car, Vlad says it's a rental. There are probably so many things we are missing from that show.
The only assumption I have for the graffiti and Vanny memorabilia is that the Burntrap ending happens first, giving Vanny full rein of the pizzaplex without a purpose until she get's freed. I'd assume there was a time where the Mimic was out of commission, leaving Vanny to navigate her way through the rubble to try and free the Mimic again. She had control over the mini musicmen originally so it'd make sense if while she was still possessed she'd customised them a little. Similarly with staff bots, as some of them are positioned in such a way where it seems they were shut off suddenly, so Gregory may have come back just in time. It's not exactly difficult to get to the mimic in Ruin, we just magically keep falling for plot reasons.
Hey rye, as someone who has watched all of the episodes of this podcast, I ended up nothing a little bit of a "trend", per-say. That is, a lot of the conversations feels very scattered along the episodes, they start on top of one another and don't reach much of any conclusion, it's making the conversation hard to follow. This also connects to something else, that sometimes you can speak over and cut off the guests, it's a little uncomfortable to watch them trying to speak and failing...
1:11:43 that is Yhorm from Dark Souls 3 facing off against the Unkindled One just a heads up I definitely WOULD watch you play through the Dark Souls trilogy if you havent already
On fazbear frights. Since the last epilogues show us that Eleanor traps the souls of most, if not all victims of hers, in the ballpit in nightmarish versions of their deaths…. I could see the more „out there“ stories not being actual events but what the soul goes through in the ballpit.
I would assume the first four books (not the security breach books but the other ones I think they were called fasbear frights Scott himself said to not use those books) So I would assume the security breach books are apart of the world of fnaf just not the same exact one more akin to a parallel world
Honestly one of the big reasons I don’t consider the books 100% canon is they have too much solid information. FNaF has thrived on giving out scraps, and recontextualizing those scraps later. That’s what has allowed for so many theories and conversations.
do you think that the bonnie and monty is intended to be more symbolic about what happens to Cassie in ruin? Like its intended to be vague that either theory is credible until we see the actual evidence. So maybe next game it will be solved if they 'solved' the bonnie and monty stuff in ruin. more of a comment than a question but I'd love to know your thoughts on it
i feel like remnant is more of an all-purpouse supernatural "haunting substance" than anything else, like ectoplasm or any other IP distinct supernatural systems in more specifics, id say it would be "ghost energy" gained from life force and emotions, with bad emotions being more unstable and dangerous the silver eyes version of remnant as just ghost infused metal feels pretty weird but also doesnt really track much, i mean, remnant is not name dropped very often in the series despite being important but the only time its seen as liquid metal is in that novel series (which could absolutely have different rules, i know people like to say "different story, same rules" but adaptations of that kind will often have different rules that fit the story and medium better). afaik fnaf 6's explanation is just "spirit stuff, can be neutralised if overheated" and fnaf AR is almost wholey different as there its more like spirit orbs and swirly gas
Nothing in FNAF is canon unless it's the books. The original games were made "to conceal and make light of what happened." Most of the Security Breach endings appear to be false. What else is there? Help Wanted? Between illusion disks, nightmare gas, ghost dreams, rogue indie devs, "virtual" reality, non-canon endings, retcons, self-referencing parodies... there's very, very little in FNAF that you can say is canon, and even less that you can say actually happened. Honestly, I think that's the intent.
>A< mimic dropped the elevator. The files are a double bluff. Once accessible by the VR Glitchtrap took over the Endo 1.0 Mimic. GMimic is Glitch-Mimic, not Gregory Mimic. Endo mimic barely manages rote mimicry, and has to practice, as shown during the fight with Roxy. Glitchtrap/Helpi shows it can create new dialog whole clothe by demonstrating faking Cassi's voice in seconds.
its not "gmimic" it's "grimic" which is a portmonteau of gregory and mimic, sure, it could also be smth else, but "glitch" does not have an R in it, so it def isnt that
Hey. I just had an idea… it might be crazy… the jokers colors are green, yellow, and purple. Could the jester costume maybe be a reference to the joker? The reason I ask is the famous realization given to Batman… that the joker is 3 people. Maybe it is 3 different mimics? This may be stupid or crazy but is a interesting thought that came to mind at about 39 minutes in.
I believe the Grey Suite w/ Purple Handkerchief Mr. Burrows wears is more representative of how the Purple burrows into the Grey, representing how Michael has a piece of William with him and possibly compartmentalized like Vannessa.
Let me preface this with the obvious "I'm not trying to force anyone to believe anything and I am all for allowing people to believe what they want to believe" but some things in the story of the FNAF games just don't add up to the Tales timeline. The first thing I'd want to know is how you'd explain all the little details that don't add up. Like the pizzaplex being built in 2017 or Edwin starting to work at Freddy's in 2012 at latest according to ID's Fantasy's research. Or the fact that the specific language in the books is made up of "squares, loops, squiggles, triangles within triangles" and factually, only 1 of those vaguely resembles the wall code we see in SB. Unless you claim that those are two completely separate languages? In which case, that's another piece of evidence that the books cross over to the games stripped off no? I also want to know what your opinion is on the mimic apparently dying or whatever at the end of the tales books? I could have my facts wrong but in which Tales game do they mention Foxy's Flume? Supposedly a VERY OLD ride that was never open to the public in Ruin. In fact so old that Cassie rode it when the pizzaplex was OPEN which happens way before the events of SL. Also I've seen people comparing the doors labelled in the main games as CharlieDoor to the mimic's door in the warehouse. But the pizzaplex (and these doors) are built on top of the FNAF6 pizzeria. Which people have theorised was built on the original pizzeria. So when exactly did the warehouse come in? Edwin is 64 shortly before the events of SB (or a bit before it, whatever). So what's that, 2030? 2033? Remember that for the Pizzaplex to open we need 2 games, an AR delivery service and the public at large to forget events that occurred in the past. So placing it shortly after FNAF6 (which was already stated to be in 2023) doesn't make much sense. Edwin is 24 when he loses David (maybe 25 if you want to stretch the half a dozen weeks that have passed from the start of the story but that's a MASSIVE stretch). If you place the final events in that story in 2030 you'll get that Edwin is 24 in... 1990. yeah. That doesn't work very well does it. Not only is Edwin supposedly working with very rudimentary endoskeletons reminiscent of the first Freddy's locations, he's been working with Fazbear for about 1.5 years by this point. Which places him solidly after FNAF2 and very distantly after FNAF1. At both points the original animatronics (and the toy versions mind you!) have already been made. 2033 makes this math even worse. The only way this works is if the events are placed RIGHT after fnaf6. Which remember, burns down. Not exactly a quiet exit as the pizzeria would be bustling enough to earn an income (which helps attract the animatronics) and all those people would suddenly wonder what happened to the pizzeria. You really think they'd be able to trust anything related to Freddy's so soon after 2 locations (FNAF3 and 6) burned down so recently? Even disregarding the original tragedies. I heavily doubt it. I also recommend watching Sire Squawks' video on this topic he made some other points that are decently worthy to point out. Hell, even the fact that the pizzaplex has been described in multiple ways (pizzaslice or round) in the books should signify that Tales is NOT continuous to the games since it's not continuous to itself, no?
That time in Fazbear Frights where Funtime Freddy kills a bunch of kids and it end with describing their severed faces watching eachother in the darkness of his stomach still haunts me to this day. 😭😭
Okay, just to be clear, I don't have anything against people that believe Gregory dropped Cassie, but, in terms of the in-game plotpoint, until it is is directly confirmed in-game, I will die on the hill that it makes absolutely zero sense for Gregory to drop the elevator, and not just because it doesn't match his characterization in game, which is already stupid. No, I mean, in the moment, why on this green earth would Gregory work this hard to contact Cassie, get her to go to an elevator which he himself (with help) turned on AFTER he knew it was the Mimic, only to shut it off when she is finally in the elevator? There is quite literally no reason for Gregory, if he was going to leave Cassie, to even turn the elevator on in the first place. Why would he do that? The only conceivable reason is to a) create a more dramatic moment and b) reveal a sentence of information, both of which are exclusively to the benefit of an omniscient audience. Like, again, I have nothing against the people who believe it, but if that was actually the narrative beat the intended, I genuinely think it is one of the laziest writing decisions in this entire series. Anyway, unrelated, which would hate more, if Golden Freddy is Phone Guy or Andrew?
I can't reconcile stitchline with in game events, it completely erases Cassidy's importance to the story by making Andrew the vengeful spirit and it provides no explanation for the survival logbook.
question: since the plushie carried by the kid in the stories is a tiger, then tigerock is put in charge... while we have a kid associated with a freddy plushie in the games... does this lend credence to it simply being tigers in the books whilst being freddy in the games?
what if griggly and vanana have been experimenting on the mimic and they're actually down in the depths of the 'plex trying to figure out what's making these binkbonk clingclangs all jangly
I think the supernatural elements are a red herring now. I think the books are telling us that the (current) storyline is entirely a story of AI. There are 3 mimics in play, the endo mimic 1.0, which copied Afton's psychotic attacks and performed the 2nd MCI and was then sealed in pizzaplex for 30 years. A copy of the already afton infected mimic 1.0 that was turned into Glitchtrap via sister location and VR and trained on super hackers Vannessa and Gregory, and another copy that was then hardcoded to protect the pizzaplex and keep the animatronics connected (but is conflicted because the base program had already been infected by Afton training) and was originally in the giant freddy head and the black and white wires and is now the Tangle. Glitchtrap is trying to get the endo to have a body (and succeeds at the end. the endo was kept in an area beyond the VR, once it's free glitchtrap can try to merge with it), the tangle wants to absorb everything/protect the pizzaplex but is somewhat corrupted.
I see the books as clarification and "universe rules". Basically we figure out how things like remnant function, and what ghosts in this world are capable of etc
I stand by Mrs. Afton being dead. I’m basing this on the theory that Gregory/Vanessa/Freddy represent the Crying Child/Elizabeth/Michael respectively, therefore Vanessa’s background in the Therapy Tapes represents Elizabeth’s experiences. The parallels are clearly drawn between each character in the Princess Quest ending, and I can’t believe that was unintentional. So, speaking of intention, they intentionally included in the Therapy Tapes that once Vanessa/Elizabeth’s father Bill/William won the custody battle after the divorce, her mother is implied to have died. The audio glitches so it isn’t clear whether that was at the hands of the children’s father or her own, but the implication is still there. I don’t think they would’ve included that in the tapes without a reason, so I don’t think it’s a detail we can ignore.
Dmuted mentions that there isn't an argument that the books are in fact not canon. I found one, one that could very well prove the books aren't canon at all.
I think the Stitchwraith Stingers are non-canon, simply because they outright contradict Fnaf 1, Fright's depiction of the MCI in Into The Pit directly contradicts what we know about it in Fnaf 1, there are 6 Missing Children instead of 5, and the Bodies were seen by customers instead of never being found, as evidenced by the fact customers are panicking while the Children's corpses are just sitting around in the Safe Room Even if someone says that Tales from the Pizzaplex invalidates Fnaf 1-4 because those are all in-universe games, Sister Location and Pizza Sim still treat the lore from those Games as 100% canon, so if the lore of those games is completely accurate, then a logical explanation for why the event is depicted so differently to the Games MCI is needed if the Stingers are canon to the games. And no, saying the Memory from the Ballpit was inaccurate is not a valid explanation, none of the books even remotely suggest that idea, you're just making shit up
just realised, patient 46 had the ruined vanny mask this might be why gregory was in the pizzaplex and why he was a hacker and stuff. He might have been controlled by the mask. Maybe he was able to take control of the mask and this could be the reason why Freddy rebooted in the beginning of FNAF SB. This explains GGY, why gregory is so different from patient 46 while still being him and why Gregory doesn't do the hacking in SB and the mask is in the pizzaplex in ruin. Gregory probably lost the mask before the start of SB when he started to get himself back together. Other solution which I hate. He had the mask still on during SB and the reason only he sees vanny is bc he's wearing the mask and vanny is trying to take him over (but this counters one of the endings)
![Yailin La Mas Viral, @kreizyk.official - Dale 2 (Remix) [Video Oficial]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/JaYHBzgqz94/mqdefault.jpg)
Imagine if Cassie's dad is named Van or Vance and he's the originator of the VANNI system. That would be wild.
YOOOOO that'd be sick
Vincent AKA VINNI, as a tongue-in-cheek callback to William's old fan-name
bob vance
@@RudockAviarI would love that
That's a good one. It would be wild if that were the case.
Remnant is made of plot-tonium. It works how the plot needs it to and can do what ever is needed to make the plot of the current story work
Lmao I love that term
It’s the midi-chlorians and I hate them because each step we take further from the GHOST CHILDREN HAUNTING ROBOTS is plain bad story telling. I want to hear less *how* and more *why*
It was pretty much established in the very beginning of its introduction how it works
On the “mimic/Burntrap” idea about Security Breach and Ruin:
Gregory creates the comic versions of the other endings to SB. We know he draws real world inspiration, he must have seen the Tangle when he and presumably Vanny went down to where MXES is.
Burntrap doesn’t necessarily have to be identical to what was shown in SB, but if not, where did Gregory get his inspiration?
Vanny, if she remembered or perhaps documented her plan, would be able to, as Vanessa, tell Gregory about it. Burntrap may have been the end goal, but Gregory interrupted her before she could complete it.
Alternatively, Burntrap was always planning to double cross Vanny. He wanted Freddy as his body, and was manipulating Gregory to get all the improvements installed in Freddy and then bring him to the basement for Glitchtrap to take him over.
Taken a step further, it’s possible that whole idea of Burntrap trying to take over Freddy was actually something that Gregory included because of his own subconscious fear that he may still be under Glitchtrap’s control.
The only question I would have is why does Cassie recognize Gregory's comics?
I am assuming with that question that Cassie met and was friends with Gregory before Security Breach, that the end of SB resulted in the closing of the Pizzaplex (because the animatronics haven't been repaired), that Gregory hasn't been seen by Cassie since the collapse (otherwise she would be confused that he is trapped down there), and that Gregory must therefore have made these comics before SB, because how would Cassie's bday party have happened after SB?
One thought as a possible answer is that Gregory remembers seeing Burntrap and the Blob, etc... from when he was GGY. Maybe not even conscious memory of it, but is drawing it because he remembers the images without context.
@@profcommie I’m guessing Gregory made other comics that Cassie has seen. So she recognizes the style of the comics as she finds them in the pizzaplex.
@@GendoRokabundi That's a fair response.
the irony that "muted" has the audio is fabulous
I didn't notice that until you said it! Hilarious!
I personally think that the books are technically canon in the sense that they are supposed to represent or indirectly point to specific characters, locations, or aspects in the canon timeline. I don’t think that they are meant to be literally in-universe canon (because of Sea Bonnies and Faz-Goo are canon in the same universe as the games, that would be stupid), but rather Scott just suggesting (in his usual confusing and vague storytelling) that these stories are in some way connecting to something in the mainstream universe.
Just my two cents! Great episode, glad to see the theorizing community still working hard!
Fazbear Entertainment has been the second biggest villain in this franchise ever since the first game, when we learned through the phone calls that they are actively covering up the deaths of their employees and removing any and all evidence from the crime scene before the police are ever even called
I mean, they’re probably doing that to not get sued more than trying to kill off employees. It is still horrible but it’s more of a very scummy business practice than them doing it out of malice
Man you've been having such killer guests on here lately! Love it rye keep it up!! 💪💪
32:10 Until the corners cut back.
1:05:34 I image it would be like a scene in one of the Spooky Month episodes, where he briefly imitates holding up a pie and then goes back to attacking you.
1:05:43 Odd ship name, but aight.
1:09:40 Do note that the company just tends to dispose of the bodies after they get stuffed, as heavily implied by his Night 1 phone call. I personally think he possesses his phone, since it goes off on its own long after he's dead.
1:26:00 I fully agree that they deserve more attention, but on the topic of the phantoms: aren't there more phantoms than Toys? In particular, there are two Foxy-themed phantoms: Foxy and Mangle. What does that mean? Was Foxy's spirit split apart even more?
I can feel these podcasts becoming my new rewatch series in a few years, they’re so safe and slay
I think this was a brilliant idea of an episode given current tension in the fanbase just having a chill talegames/talegamesn't discussion
My guess for the phantom animatronics is that they are a natural version of illusion discs.
The staticky audio in fazbear frights could cause the phantom animatronics to exist
The Phantoms are canonically hallucinations caused by Afton's Agony. Not illusions, hallucinations.
Also, *Fazbear's Fright.
Cant get enough of this podcast!!! Bravo!
Foxy Go Go Go! might have (retroactively with the new book) always been the wandering MCI spirits watching Foxy's show. Just a thought.
I think that the Funtime Freddy head is more of a Helpy head, and the game's version of the Storyteller is the Tangle running the Helpy system until it got trashed and thrown into the pit, probably for doing agony-based things.
It is not. The head is inarguably Funtime Freddy's. The Blob's main head is Funtime Freddy.
53:35 thats what the mask is, that's what the point of the mask is
18:56 hot take: most people are made uncomfortable by more than one pile of a child corpses
In the graphic novels the story to be beautiful eleanor looks like the slender version of baby from the silver eyes
Problem is that the building that had the ballora attraction is the same one with the happs tube maze, the roleplay theatre and the ar booths so it probably in a different plex.
Monty couldn't have destroyed Bonnie because Monty didn't have his claws yet.
1:22:45 the amount of supernatural stories that switch to a science fiction explanation midway through is too high for my liking. Looking at you, midichlorians and the Stand virus….
Could the person leaving the V.A.N.N.I. mask and other stuff in Ruin be Tapegirl? She was taken over be Glitchtrap as well, right?
For if the books are canon I would suggest checking out Brensnorf. He makes some really solidly built and argumented theories, though I don't agree with everything he says, they are still really good!
Most people say Tape Girl is Vanessa currently. I absolutely think it's not possible, but I don't think Tape Girl was taken over by Glitchtrap otherwise why would he need Vanessa, so I feel like either he failed his chance at merging with her, and so she escaped, left FE, so Vanessa was brought in to be her replacement. That gives us an answer as to what happened to TG, and why Vanessa plays the game, if she's not needed.
Since the animatronics think adults are endoskeletons, they (probably) wouldn't bother with an endoskeleton, the guard wouldn't possess them unless the suits are what they latch on to. So no, Phone Guy wouldn't possess any animatronic (nowadays.)
Do they think adult's are endo's? I thought the kids thought adults were William but the official company explanation was that they think adults are endo's?
@@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV They think every adult is William, the company thinks they think adults are endos.
LETS GOOOO 🎉🎉🎉🎉
Maybe the VANNI network is a Gestalt Intelligence of multiple AI...?
Phone guy is in the ultimate custom night game too which has always been weird to me...
I mean, so are several non canon characters. Its just a way to fill up the roster.
@@BunBit_ true true!
W ryetoast, I agree with Ryetoast 100%
the books of fnaf have a secret things buddy you but you maybe right that they kinda canon because of something idk if is maybe right but maybe little bit like who we see a new person or old but he changed be like ruin like burntrap and bob the one of head of Funtime Freddy (please answer my question if is that right or wrong okay thank you for read my comment)
Obviously Monty attacked Bonnie cus Bonnie was a better bowler then him, would explain the broken bowling ball.
He went toy Freddy mode
True and based
Tales in my opinion isn't canon due to the first ever tales story frailty which has a character named jessica who was a victim of Eleanor from fazbear frights. In the story she talks about how she once wanted to be beatiful but not anymore, she had a heart shaped locket which when she carved she got less beatiful and when she carved all of it off she turned into scraps, when she kisses the love interest ink/oil stains his lips, and her tears which are ink/oil stain and pour on her dress
Why would that make it noncanon?
@@BunBit_ because tales isn't canon in my opinion
@@BunBit_also the mci is different in frights where the police found the bodies which is confirmed in a epilogue
@@Spazy912do you know which epilogue
@@Spazy912 no, thats in a scrapped story that was released as part of "felix the shark"
Fazbear Frights is a hit or miss. There were real solid ones, like into the pit, than others that are concerning, like _In the flesh_
Count The Ways is a solid one, and does get graphic with what it says.
Yeah in the flesh…
@@Some_random_Stickman *In The Flesh (capitalization), and it's one of but not the weirdest story.
Into The pit was awful! Time travelling ball pits is beyond stupid
@@novustalks7525in a series with killer chuck-e-cheese robots, animatronic birthing, and injectable soul juice, I think time travel isn't much of a stretch lol
My big, ultimate hesitation with the Mimic is that I'm worried the writers will fall into the Imitator Enemy trap, and the Mimic will just be this bland, personality-less robot. I don't think they'll do that, but I do still worry that they will considering how *easy* it is to do that with a Mimic type character.
Edit: if FNaF1 takes place after the establishment closed down, maybe Phone Guy's death was the proverbial straw that broke the Fazbear's back, and that's ultimately what closed the location down. Like yeah the hygiene and safety issues were referenced in articles, but maybe the last straw was their longest-lasting employee's corpse like 12 feet away from the main room.
this is my issue with the mimic. its characerication in the books makes it a stupid ai with no urge to kill only folowing orders and being incapable of detecting what its doing. this does not a villain make.
@@Markcrazeer Done right, a machine just doing its job can actually be significantly more dangerous than someone who understands. You can't easily predict something with no motive.
@@ForgedinPrint dangerous? Yes. A compelling bbeg? No. Not with such a predictable madness. We know Why it is mad. Even if its actions can not be predicted.
@Markcrazeer if knowing the motive is enough for a creature to stop being scary, well most media (at least American and European media) has the motive somewhere, which should make them not scary.
Saw guy? Wants to punish the people for their past crimes
Amnesia? We know the motives of pretty much everything in the earlier games at least. Even everyone involved in fnaf motives are known.
Do I personally find any of this scary? Not really. Are these things popular due to how effective they were, some even to the point of changing how horror is done? Yes.
That's exactly what the mimic is. It's not sentient. It's only following It's programs
He wore red and blue (the wavelengths that you perceive as purple) and then changes into grey with purple accents. That's suspicious
I didn't even think about it like that 😳
Now that you mention it, it is very sus that that's the case. It's interesting for sure.
In regards to Fazbear Frights, I think a point in Rye’s favor would be “Coming Home.” It’s got the same ghost rules as “Alone Together,” AND features straight-up Susie from the MCI. BUT they make a very specific point to say she has brown hair and eyes, with her doll Gretchen looking more like game!Suzie. FNAF6 was out by then so they knew what Suzie looked like; so her looking different but having the same story is very. Interesting
I mean everything stating the canonicity if frights has said that only some of frights takes place in the games canon, so that could be an explanation for that, and the authors also said that they haven't seen all past material, so they might not have known certain things from past sources unless Scott told them about it or it was important, which Susie's hair was not
It is made very clear in the marketing that the level of connection for these stories varies. The "stitchline", the line of stories connecting to the stitchwraith stingers, has no such issues.
@@BunBit_it does have a issue though it says the mci has six victims even though in the games it has five also the body’s were found in the stichline which they weren’t found because they were stuffed in the suit
Except Coming Home's Susie _isn't_ the one from the MCI, since MCI Susie is _long dead_ by that point. She just has a similar name and is playing Fruity Maze.
EDIT: I thought you were talking about a bit from Tales, my bad.
@@syweb2 it is the one from the mci, both Susie's are long dead by the 1986, which is around when the story takes place
I myself wouldn't consider the Fnaf books as Canon but they definitely are important, for an instance we have Mimic he wasn't Canon until Ruin released does it now mean that he's Glitchtrap? Maybe Yes, Maybe No because Ruin gave us as few informations about Mimic as possible so we just can wait for HW2 to see what happens.
It's interesting cause glitch trap was from a circuit bored. Which if glitch was mimic then it's a question of how did mimic get its circuit bored back to function.
Idk if it's just me, but I think it's weird to have a book series (Silver eyes) that isn't in continuity, then have one that is (frights/tales). I mean they are quite different in method and execution, but it's still 'stories' so
I mean everyone said they weren’t in the games but now everyone is like it is a complete change
I've never seen anyone raise that point. But it makes a lot of sense to me.
The same can be said of any spinoff media.
I think theres 2 things that will always prevent me from beliving the fazbear frights or tales books are canon. Those being that any of the "oh [specific detail] is INTENTIONAL and means all these [LESS SPECIFIC DETAIL] add up to book happen, so on and so forth. This argument can be used on both sides and from literally anything from game or book, cancelling each other out at any point. The second reason being the appearance of burntrap in security breach is a occams razor scenario: its way simpler and likely that the animatronic with human bits is the remains of the animatronic infamous for having a corpse inside. While I'm super on board with the likelihood that vanny repaired and fixed up burntrap to put glitchtrap (who is not the mimic, still haven't heard any GOOD evidence stating Glitchtrap=mimic other than that HW gametheory that doesn't fit with glitchtrap's implications in security breach, appearance and the "always come back" from HW moblie release) into that vessel. Thats just my 2 cents thought. PLEASE let Ryes recent moves to work with so many other Theorists and agreeing with many of them, and Mat's recent incredible theory on the topic, its really well said and deserves the communities time and should work as the jumping off point going foreward like what the timeline they worked there asses off on shouldve/couldve been.
You right
The heart pendant around Eleanors neck is remnant. You should read the epilogue for fazbear freights first then read the rest of the stories. It'll help point out what stories it weaves through.
In the forth book "Step Closer" the story " Dance with Me" is about a set of glasses that has a strange Ballora hologram that falls into that strange blur of vr/ar that fnaf has now.
I am not sure as to whether the books are in the same timeline as the games, however i think they are important. Kinda to show us what's in play
That's where I'm at
What if Henry and William are the same is just that glitch trap takes possession of Henry and makes him William 🤔 just like sun and moon are 🤔 lol
Wild. But I guess it's possible
1:11:00 I highly disagree and fully believe that the pizzeria is closed in fnaf 1, because the new Freddy's is also closed during the fnaf 2 gameplay (November on the paycheck, phone guy says it's summer). Both sets of phone guy calls seem recorded for previous night guards. Both restaurants are dirty and covered in cobwebs, fnaf 2 still has birthday decorations up as if a party had been rented (including a wet floor sign in a party room potentially relating to the bite).
40:28 If Burntrap's body parts aren't entirely Afton's then could some of them come from the missing people from the alley ending newspaper?
1:08:55 I think Golden Freddy's "IT'S ME" messages were originally supposed to be Phone Guy telling Mike he was stuffed into the suit. He asked Mike to check the back room where the suits are kept, then he got stuffed Golden Freddy while he was in suit mode. I used to believe that his struggling triggered the spring locks and that's what the cut scene at the end of UCN is.
1:10:14 If he's not in Golden Freddy maybe he's in the spare Freddy suit we see in the Game Over screen, unless that's supposed to be Mike.
1:10:30 If Phone Guy did get stuffed then removed from a suit, it would explain why Golden Freddy says "IT'S ME" and is in suit mode. Phone Guy struggles during the stuffing, setting off the spring locks and killing him. Someone finds him after listening to the prerecorded training tapes and unwinds the spring locks to get him out of the suit. Now Golden Freddy is in suit mode again and possessed by 2-3 spirits.
I love listening to this podcast. It's very relaxing. I hope someday you get Mr Matpat as guest! I'd love to hear you two converse about fnaf lore.
Almost done watching and holy moly I love the way you guys interact, it really feels like you two are good friends with how easily you guys joke around
I have a theory that the Tales books and Security Breach games are telling the same story but in different perspectives.
Here's my evidence and thought process:
Eleanor from Fazbear Frights is referenced in Lally's games meaning Tales is canon to Frights and Security Breach happens in the books but with lots of differences.
We all basically agree to an extent that Frights is primarily just to provide hints as well as to pave the way for the future of FNAF and that everything isn't 1 for 1 in the games.
To me this implies that the Tales books aren't telling the exact same story as the games either but rather are instead telling the same story with the events that follow the Frights version of FNAF.
So if we really have to follow the books we should only take the books as fact and reference the events of the games, *not the points or timeline*.
Think of it this way, the Tales books are focused on primarily the Mimic while the games up until Ruin were focused on Glitchtrap which evolved separate from the Mimic code from HW with William's agony/spirit taking over it.
This seems like common knowledge now but what I propose is that the events in Tales/Frights happened in the games but replacing the in game events with the book (Frights) versions of them and don't relate to the game characters.
For instance:
William's agony being spread to all the Fazbear Entertainment property in the warehouse in the Frights version parallels the Mimic code spreading throughout Fazbear Entertainment then being taken over by Glitchtrap.
The Mimic Endo being taken to the Pizzaplex by the workers is the book version of Fazbear Entertainment not only using the animatronics for code but literally using everything in the FNAF franchise to make the Pizzaplex.
What do you think, and please be respect and constructive 🙃
At this point the fnaf lore I desperately just need is Mrs. Afton finally getting a canon first name. Let the woman have that at least like damn. More lore would be great but cmon.
We don't even have a name for the Crying Child really 😭
I know right? I’ve heard Evan for the crying child. Like just tell me her name is Sue on a notebook somewhere cmon.
I think the mimic is a mimic because of the physical changes it can undergo but that as a learning algorithm also learns by mimicking it is undergoing a similar process. It doesn't exactly mimic once given enough data it can create wholely new actions and motivations.
I wonder how many nightguards were stuffed into suites leading up to FNAF 1? The fact there are power-based doors to the security office when the last location had none implies that there were enough guards to fall victim for the company to even bother putting in doors. The fact the Phone Guy recording is a recording also implies the security guard in FNAF 1 may not be the first guard after Phone Guy's demise.
Mimic is an awful villain, just tell it to divide by zero and it would explode instantly
Problem solved.
Also monty is the best security breach animatronic and I will not hear otherwise.
I'm open to feedback.
Actually it will turn into a black hole and destroy everything
I agree that the mimic is an awful villain
@@Spazy912just say no, it can’t legally destroy everything without peoples consent
agreed yes Monty is the best one
Have you tried that with chatgpt? I think it's smart enough to avoid it.
Also Monty is nowhere near either *MUSIC MAN* or map/maskbot.
My problem with books being canon is the problems that comes with it, I can see why people think books are in games continuity, but for me personally not really for example in the man in room 1280 its said the man was there for year or decades, but that cant be possible since FFPS is in 2023 and storyteller 2024, thats just break the timeline, and TFTP were said to be a follow up series to frights, another thing is yes the mimic endo, in games vanny uses freddy to make a path down to labyrinth, which is underneath the pizzeria, but mimic in epilouges isnt stuck in labyrinth, so it doesnt make sense to me why would she then make a path to labyrinth, and its said mimic was trapped there for a long time, because of mxes, the security, he wouldnt be trapped for a long time if it was after SB events, since both Cassie and Gregory are kids, and if he was stuck there and kept down by mxes how can he be glitchtrap or burntrap or different question how can tiger rock or storyteller happen, since in these scenarios mimic isnt stuck, and with the tangle point yes tangle take burntrap in the end, but throughout the fight tangle helps burntrap too
Sorry for long text....
Sooo, I've had this random theory for a while now. Sorta a "hear me out bro" thought. What if, the Afton and Emily children have the same mother, and the crying child was Michael's half brother, and the game's version of Sammy Emily.
Just some supporting speculation: If Immortal and the Restless is an accurate representation of Michael's mother (gunna call her Clara for the sake of my sanity)and William's relationship, then it's likely they weren't married when Michael was born. For Michael to be a teen in 1983, he would have been born in the early 70's. Clara, being a single mother in the 70's, would likely look to marry anyone else as quickly as possible in order to give her son a stable life. Then along comes Henry.
How interesting! So little evidence it's hardly even a hypothesis, but very fun nonetheless!
I've had this same theory too! There is only some loosely supporting evidence, all circumstantial at best. Both Clara and Charlotte's mother look nearly identical. Same bob-cut blonde hair with side bangs and brown eyes. In one of the concept sketches for Clara, she has Cresent earrings which are not the same as Charlotte's mother's round earrings. However, Ballora and Charlotte's mother both have round earrings, gold and pink respectively. Another interesting thing to note is when Ballora sings about an empty tomb in her song, Clara also mentions that Vlad's(William) house was more like a morgue in there. So there is _something_ connecting these three characters. But if we wanted to keep making color connections, the fact that the Emily's are usually associated with green and purple with Afton's, Clara and Vlad both have green and purple colors on. I think this is just a fun theory to also add to William's loathing of Henry too if he views the Emily's as the perfect family, with Clara being in a previous relationship with William before Henry, just another thing he views Henry stealing from him.
@@simpmoodles5265 Something else I've realized, a LOT of Michael parallels in the Fazbear Frights series have a step-parent. Their half/step sibling being treated better than them is usually their motive for bullying the young sibling.
@SamDragontear Scott is definitely trying to tell us something, I still think about that comment about FNAF SL "One thing is actually the other way" something Fuhnaff brought up in one of his videos. Oh, another weird thing I noticed is in the Immortal and the Restless, when Clara mentions his car, Vlad says it's a rental. There are probably so many things we are missing from that show.
Can Scott just answer the damn question! It's not fun! It's not engaging! It just splits people apart and not fair!
The only assumption I have for the graffiti and Vanny memorabilia is that the Burntrap ending happens first, giving Vanny full rein of the pizzaplex without a purpose until she get's freed. I'd assume there was a time where the Mimic was out of commission, leaving Vanny to navigate her way through the rubble to try and free the Mimic again. She had control over the mini musicmen originally so it'd make sense if while she was still possessed she'd customised them a little. Similarly with staff bots, as some of them are positioned in such a way where it seems they were shut off suddenly, so Gregory may have come back just in time. It's not exactly difficult to get to the mimic in Ruin, we just magically keep falling for plot reasons.
Hey rye, as someone who has watched all of the episodes of this podcast, I ended up nothing a little bit of a "trend", per-say. That is, a lot of the conversations feels very scattered along the episodes, they start on top of one another and don't reach much of any conclusion, it's making the conversation hard to follow. This also connects to something else, that sometimes you can speak over and cut off the guests, it's a little uncomfortable to watch them trying to speak and failing...
Hello there
GENERAL KENOBI!
You are a bold one
You know general Grevious said it first in the clone wars also i am talking about the timeline not in real life
Kill him. -Start Battle-.
1:11:43 that is Yhorm from Dark Souls 3 facing off against the Unkindled One just a heads up
I definitely WOULD watch you play through the Dark Souls trilogy if you havent already
I'd love to see sire squaks on this podcast
12:07| there is a Roblox game titled: fnaf 1 but SB and 5 people play in total 4 become animatronics and one becomes the night guard.
On fazbear frights. Since the last epilogues show us that Eleanor traps the souls of most, if not all victims of hers, in the ballpit in nightmarish versions of their deaths…. I could see the more „out there“ stories not being actual events but what the soul goes through in the ballpit.
How interesting.... That makes a lot of sense! I like it. It fits nicely!
I would assume the first four books (not the security breach books but the other ones I think they were called fasbear frights Scott himself said to not use those books)
So I would assume the security breach books are apart of the world of fnaf just not the same exact one more akin to a parallel world
I think that's where I'm at
@@RyeToast I didn’t expect a reply 😁👍 thank you and I love your content I hope you are doing ok mentally and have a good day
Man watching this is like half fazbear lore and half watching the blocks waiting for them to line up with the cams in some way
Honestly one of the big reasons I don’t consider the books 100% canon is they have too much solid information. FNaF has thrived on giving out scraps, and recontextualizing those scraps later. That’s what has allowed for so many theories and conversations.
Seriously?
do you think that the bonnie and monty is intended to be more symbolic about what happens to Cassie in ruin? Like its intended to be vague that either theory is credible until we see the actual evidence. So maybe next game it will be solved if they 'solved' the bonnie and monty stuff in ruin. more of a comment than a question but I'd love to know your thoughts on it
Really loving this podcast series!
Same here!
53:38 thats what the point of the mask is
*goes to get his normal pills from the drawer*
i feel like remnant is more of an all-purpouse supernatural "haunting substance" than anything else, like ectoplasm or any other IP distinct supernatural systems
in more specifics, id say it would be "ghost energy" gained from life force and emotions, with bad emotions being more unstable and dangerous
the silver eyes version of remnant as just ghost infused metal feels pretty weird but also doesnt really track much, i mean, remnant is not name dropped very often in the series despite being important but the only time its seen as liquid metal is in that novel series (which could absolutely have different rules, i know people like to say "different story, same rules" but adaptations of that kind will often have different rules that fit the story and medium better). afaik fnaf 6's explanation is just "spirit stuff, can be neutralised if overheated" and fnaf AR is almost wholey different as there its more like spirit orbs and swirly gas
Nothing in FNAF is canon unless it's the books. The original games were made "to conceal and make light of what happened." Most of the Security Breach endings appear to be false. What else is there? Help Wanted? Between illusion disks, nightmare gas, ghost dreams, rogue indie devs, "virtual" reality, non-canon endings, retcons, self-referencing parodies... there's very, very little in FNAF that you can say is canon, and even less that you can say actually happened. Honestly, I think that's the intent.
Sister Location and Pizza Sim both treat the lore of Fnaf 1-4 as 100% canon, down to the exact layout of the Fnaf 4 Houses
I hope not, but it's possible.
@@jaydenlobbe7911 the internal consistency of the first games is meaningless when the later games imply that they were told by an unreliable narrator
The books are "cannon adjacent." That's the best way to understand it!.
*canon
@Scar-Predator lol, thanks, fixed my autocorrect.
First game only, maybe Phone Guy was golden Freddy. "It's Me".
Yes, I totally see that! Absolutely genius! Why hasn't anyone thought about that before? It makes complete sense!
>A< mimic dropped the elevator. The files are a double bluff. Once accessible by the VR Glitchtrap took over the Endo 1.0 Mimic. GMimic is Glitch-Mimic, not Gregory Mimic. Endo mimic barely manages rote mimicry, and has to practice, as shown during the fight with Roxy. Glitchtrap/Helpi shows it can create new dialog whole clothe by demonstrating faking Cassi's voice in seconds.
its not "gmimic" it's "grimic" which is a portmonteau of gregory and mimic, sure, it could also be smth else, but "glitch" does not have an R in it, so it def isnt that
@@Sopsy_Hallow you got me there, yeah I was misremembering. Doh.
Hey. I just had an idea… it might be crazy… the jokers colors are green, yellow, and purple. Could the jester costume maybe be a reference to the joker? The reason I ask is the famous realization given to Batman… that the joker is 3 people. Maybe it is 3 different mimics? This may be stupid or crazy but is a interesting thought that came to mind at about 39 minutes in.
There is the tiger rock one, the one in the basement, and “glitchtrap” in heavy quotations which makes 3
New headcanon: The Phone Guy is Carl
Who is Carl?
@@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV Carl the Cupcake
@@comedicidiot Like.... Chica's cupcake? I think that would be Suzie’s dog, wouldn’t it?
@@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV no idea, I just think it'd be funny if it was phone guy
@@comedicidiot You know.... That is a very good argument!
ill give you one better: are the games canon? Scott tells steelwool to put stuff in games without context to this might be a legitimate problem
Respond what your favorite fazbear flights story is
Into the pit
Unironically He Told Me Everything
I believe the Grey Suite w/ Purple Handkerchief Mr. Burrows wears is more representative of how the Purple burrows into the Grey, representing how Michael has a piece of William with him and possibly compartmentalized like Vannessa.
I think Monty killed Bonnie
Also Vanny wasn’t involved
We know from the Books Bonnie Died SUPER early on before Vanny and Mimic1
Let me preface this with the obvious "I'm not trying to force anyone to believe anything and I am all for allowing people to believe what they want to believe" but some things in the story of the FNAF games just don't add up to the Tales timeline.
The first thing I'd want to know is how you'd explain all the little details that don't add up. Like the pizzaplex being built in 2017 or Edwin starting to work at Freddy's in 2012 at latest according to ID's Fantasy's research. Or the fact that the specific language in the books is made up of "squares, loops, squiggles, triangles within triangles" and factually, only 1 of those vaguely resembles the wall code we see in SB. Unless you claim that those are two completely separate languages? In which case, that's another piece of evidence that the books cross over to the games stripped off no?
I also want to know what your opinion is on the mimic apparently dying or whatever at the end of the tales books?
I could have my facts wrong but in which Tales game do they mention Foxy's Flume? Supposedly a VERY OLD ride that was never open to the public in Ruin. In fact so old that Cassie rode it when the pizzaplex was OPEN which happens way before the events of SL.
Also I've seen people comparing the doors labelled in the main games as CharlieDoor to the mimic's door in the warehouse. But the pizzaplex (and these doors) are built on top of the FNAF6 pizzeria. Which people have theorised was built on the original pizzeria. So when exactly did the warehouse come in?
Edwin is 64 shortly before the events of SB (or a bit before it, whatever). So what's that, 2030? 2033? Remember that for the Pizzaplex to open we need 2 games, an AR delivery service and the public at large to forget events that occurred in the past. So placing it shortly after FNAF6 (which was already stated to be in 2023) doesn't make much sense. Edwin is 24 when he loses David (maybe 25 if you want to stretch the half a dozen weeks that have passed from the start of the story but that's a MASSIVE stretch). If you place the final events in that story in 2030 you'll get that Edwin is 24 in... 1990. yeah. That doesn't work very well does it. Not only is Edwin supposedly working with very rudimentary endoskeletons reminiscent of the first Freddy's locations, he's been working with Fazbear for about 1.5 years by this point. Which places him solidly after FNAF2 and very distantly after FNAF1. At both points the original animatronics (and the toy versions mind you!) have already been made.
2033 makes this math even worse. The only way this works is if the events are placed RIGHT after fnaf6. Which remember, burns down. Not exactly a quiet exit as the pizzeria would be bustling enough to earn an income (which helps attract the animatronics) and all those people would suddenly wonder what happened to the pizzeria. You really think they'd be able to trust anything related to Freddy's so soon after 2 locations (FNAF3 and 6) burned down so recently? Even disregarding the original tragedies. I heavily doubt it.
I also recommend watching Sire Squawks' video on this topic he made some other points that are decently worthy to point out.
Hell, even the fact that the pizzaplex has been described in multiple ways (pizzaslice or round) in the books should signify that Tales is NOT continuous to the games since it's not continuous to itself, no?
That time in Fazbear Frights where Funtime Freddy kills a bunch of kids and it end with describing their severed faces watching eachother in the darkness of his stomach still haunts me to this day. 😭😭
Okay, just to be clear, I don't have anything against people that believe Gregory dropped Cassie, but, in terms of the in-game plotpoint, until it is is directly confirmed in-game, I will die on the hill that it makes absolutely zero sense for Gregory to drop the elevator, and not just because it doesn't match his characterization in game, which is already stupid. No, I mean, in the moment, why on this green earth would Gregory work this hard to contact Cassie, get her to go to an elevator which he himself (with help) turned on AFTER he knew it was the Mimic, only to shut it off when she is finally in the elevator? There is quite literally no reason for Gregory, if he was going to leave Cassie, to even turn the elevator on in the first place. Why would he do that? The only conceivable reason is to a) create a more dramatic moment and b) reveal a sentence of information, both of which are exclusively to the benefit of an omniscient audience. Like, again, I have nothing against the people who believe it, but if that was actually the narrative beat the intended, I genuinely think it is one of the laziest writing decisions in this entire series.
Anyway, unrelated, which would hate more, if Golden Freddy is Phone Guy or Andrew?
I can't reconcile stitchline with in game events, it completely erases Cassidy's importance to the story by making Andrew the vengeful spirit and it provides no explanation for the survival logbook.
question: since the plushie carried by the kid in the stories is a tiger, then tigerock is put in charge... while we have a kid associated with a freddy plushie in the games... does this lend credence to it simply being tigers in the books whilst being freddy in the games?
what if griggly and vanana have been experimenting on the mimic and they're actually down in the depths of the 'plex trying to figure out what's making these binkbonk clingclangs all jangly
I think the supernatural elements are a red herring now. I think the books are telling us that the (current) storyline is entirely a story of AI. There are 3 mimics in play, the endo mimic 1.0, which copied Afton's psychotic attacks and performed the 2nd MCI and was then sealed in pizzaplex for 30 years. A copy of the already afton infected mimic 1.0 that was turned into Glitchtrap via sister location and VR and trained on super hackers Vannessa and Gregory, and another copy that was then hardcoded to protect the pizzaplex and keep the animatronics connected (but is conflicted because the base program had already been infected by Afton training) and was originally in the giant freddy head and the black and white wires and is now the Tangle. Glitchtrap is trying to get the endo to have a body (and succeeds at the end. the endo was kept in an area beyond the VR, once it's free glitchtrap can try to merge with it), the tangle wants to absorb everything/protect the pizzaplex but is somewhat corrupted.
I see the books as clarification and "universe rules". Basically we figure out how things like remnant function, and what ghosts in this world are capable of etc
AT THE TIME OF RELEASE I wonder if Golden Freddy’s “It’s Me” was supposed to be Phone Guy
Ryetoast, completely off topic but Survivorman has a new VR game you should totally play!
If William really wanted to put the crying child back together why would he stuff another kid in there?
at 53:56 I Don't know is Dmuted really subtlety made that joke or it was just how they worded that question xD
Fazgoo is supposed to clue us in to what Fizzy Fazz really is...
that doesn't track. fnaf always abandons things like the blob and build over it.
Maybe the crying child is shadow Freddy? Or is that a stretch 😅😂?
It wouldn't make sense there are only 5 dead kids. William needs more remnant.
58:00 the files also say that the burn trap ending is canon yet nobody’s using that?
I stand by Mrs. Afton being dead. I’m basing this on the theory that Gregory/Vanessa/Freddy represent the Crying Child/Elizabeth/Michael respectively, therefore Vanessa’s background in the Therapy Tapes represents Elizabeth’s experiences. The parallels are clearly drawn between each character in the Princess Quest ending, and I can’t believe that was unintentional. So, speaking of intention, they intentionally included in the Therapy Tapes that once Vanessa/Elizabeth’s father Bill/William won the custody battle after the divorce, her mother is implied to have died. The audio glitches so it isn’t clear whether that was at the hands of the children’s father or her own, but the implication is still there. I don’t think they would’ve included that in the tapes without a reason, so I don’t think it’s a detail we can ignore.
My point is, that one Therapy Tape could be used as proof that Mrs. Afton is not the CEO or otherwise not in the picture.
None of them are canon. They all contradict the games
Instead of faz goo he should have called it fazoplasm or faz - o - plasm
if ggy is canon then Gregory has it in him to kill Cassie ez.
Could helpy/glitchtrap have dropped the elevator?
Dmuted mentions that there isn't an argument that the books are in fact not canon.
I found one, one that could very well prove the books aren't canon at all.
Then tell us.
I think the Stitchwraith Stingers are non-canon, simply because they outright contradict Fnaf 1, Fright's depiction of the MCI in Into The Pit directly contradicts what we know about it in Fnaf 1, there are 6 Missing Children instead of 5, and the Bodies were seen by customers instead of never being found, as evidenced by the fact customers are panicking while the Children's corpses are just sitting around in the Safe Room
Even if someone says that Tales from the Pizzaplex invalidates Fnaf 1-4 because those are all in-universe games, Sister Location and Pizza Sim still treat the lore from those Games as 100% canon, so if the lore of those games is completely accurate, then a logical explanation for why the event is depicted so differently to the Games MCI is needed if the Stingers are canon to the games. And no, saying the Memory from the Ballpit was inaccurate is not a valid explanation, none of the books even remotely suggest that idea, you're just making shit up
just realised, patient 46 had the ruined vanny mask
this might be why gregory was in the pizzaplex and why he was a hacker and stuff.
He might have been controlled by the mask.
Maybe he was able to take control of the mask and this could be the reason why Freddy rebooted in the beginning of FNAF SB.
This explains GGY, why gregory is so different from patient 46 while still being him and why Gregory doesn't do the hacking in SB and the mask is in the pizzaplex in ruin.
Gregory probably lost the mask before the start of SB when he started to get himself back together.
Other solution which I hate. He had the mask still on during SB and the reason only he sees vanny is bc he's wearing the mask and vanny is trying to take him over (but this counters one of the endings)