I came across an interesting quote by George Bernard Shaw that I thought you might find appropriate in talking about the teachings of Scientology; all cults for that matter. "Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance."
@Marcin Berman He was a leader of socialism. Socialism is a step toward communism. Communism is actually dictatorship. Shaw's grand-nephew was business partner of my brother's brother-in-law.
One time when the JW's knocked on my door I told them I was a woman of science (which I am, but more on that in a sec) and had no use for their religion. They told me that they knew the laws of entropy, and that those laws were proof gawd existed. Then they committed a fatal error. They told me I could ask them ANYTHING about thermodynamics and entropy. So I asked them this: "Why is the fourth law of thermodynamics called the 'zeroith' or 'zero' law? Shouldn't it be either four or zero? Explain the profound implications of why there is a 'zeroith' law knowing what we know about the other three laws. Also, I'd like you to tell me what the most recent, exciting development we learned about the fourth law, and it's overall implications of how we understand the universe and how it works. After all, it's not every day that Nobel Prize winning research is done in this very area (SF Bay Area) that changes the fundamentals of what we know about the physical universe." ...............................crickets Never saw those two again. Can't think of why. In my defense, they did say I could ask ANYTHING.
LLoyd, you hit the nail on the head when you said jw doubters are psychologically hesitant to run through the ‘apostasy barbed wire’ to watch a RUclips video on these subjects. I started by watching crime shows involving Mormons. Then I watched Scientology exposés and the next logical step was watching your channel and stoptheshunning.org This has allowed me to breathe after many, many years of fear. I quit attending the KH in 1991 after my nephew was shunned and almost killed himself. Thank you from my heart. Thank you. 😻
I have a friend who was raised as a JW. This story happened when I was home from college during summer break. She had left home and was working at the same restaurant I was and we became friends. There was another JW who worked with us and reported our friendship. Well, I liked to party and she started partying with me. So, she was told to stop hanging out with me and the members started spying on us. They would drive by her house and knock on the door if I was visiting. This started pissing her off and I was able to compare their behavior to regular churches. She finally left and has been free ever since.
+Chris Shelton I'm a bad influence. I lived in Utah with the Mormons for 7 long years and told my kids all the LDS dirty secrets. My son loved telling his LDS classmates about all Joseph Smith's wives. The LDS kids really thought he was only married to Emma. As you are expanding, you should do the Mormons! They're a bundle of repression and crazy cult stuff. ExMormon.org (maybe .com) is a great site.
+Eric Lopez The church is opening up but the reality is that the kids we knew had no clue the Joseph Smith was a dirty perv. They thought he only had Emma. They knew about Brigham Young but not Ole Joe and they didn't know Emma left the church over polygamy. The books are there put people have to seek them out.Its not taught in Sunday school.
+Eric Lopez It seems to me that if they aren't hiding it they would teach about to the kids. I've seen how they tell people to avoid non LDS approved media. I've seen how they treat people who leave the church. I've seen the control exerted on people. I've seen people excommunicated for disagreeing with the leadership. It's not the church it wants outsiders to think it is. Only by living in Utah for 7 years did I see the truth. Take 5 mins at Exmormon.org and you will find the main reason people leave is all the secrecy.
Followers of Yahshua (Jesus real name ) teach what he taught. What you do is between you, YHWH and Yahshua. Cults control your life. What they teach you , you are to believe and not question. They control every aspect of your life. They isolate you from any teaching or any others that are not in the cult. If you do not do what they say or think like they tell you to, you are punished. Told your bad and going to die a horrible death.
I had a great aunt who’s life was destroyed by the JW’s. She gave all her time and money to them. As a child I can remember her being the saddest person i knew. The was a real dust up when she passed from a condition she was told to ignore by her cult leaders. When I got older I researched the JW’s to understand what happened to her and was horrified by what they made her adhere to. I think her suffering made me take a degree in psychology to understand the overall conditioning of behavior and triggers used for cults to gain followers.both of these cults are very similar. Especially in the disconnection and separating of families.
OMG Chris, yes, please, include the JW in your mission! First off I had friends growing up who were JW and witnessed the destruction. From being separated from the class and isolated during holiday parties and celebrations to their parents relinquishing their right and the kid being punished by church elders. Every time my friend got in trouble she said she had to go to "church court". To recently, I'm the president of the HOA in the condo complex where I live and we have a JW owner who ruthlessly badgers, slanders and defames the board of managers over the most insane things one can think of. I actually hit on the greater CoS push, although I always had an awareness, because I felt it necessary to research deeper into the JW mind set to see what I was up against because the JW neighbor sued our HOA & management company. Yes, they are very similar and each destructive! Keep up your usual stellar work my man! This world needs you! Hey, don't take this wrong, but, turns out you're a great Scientologist, you're helping people and working to clear the planet!! 😉
MsYogaGrrrl All the good that religious institutions do can be accomplished without having to appeal to supernatural powers and magical thinking. I think it's actually a bit insulting to the people doing good to say that without religious thinking they would not be just as altruistic.
Thunderf00t said that line, though I'm not sure if he "originated" that quote. If atheism isn't a religion, I don't quite get why YogaGrrl left a very moderate comment that anon8109 got all offended over and read things into it. Uhm...who said that sincere acts of altruism, helping out someone in need, are null and void depending on your belief in God or belief in no god? I don't get why you are concerned about who gets some brownie points. Either you are helping someone out or you are scoring points for that not-a-religion called atheism. A heck of a lot of people extend kindness to someone who needs a little help. One of my BFF's will pull over to that homeless person with a sign and ask, "Do you smoke?" And she'd give him/her a Marboro out of her pack. She didn't have $ to give for a long time, but she just wanted to give them something to help. Now I know the anti-smoking people would disapprove. But she understood as smoker and wanted to give that bit of comfort. Yes, she believed in God, but a very generic, non religious higher power type God. Didn't go to church or anything. But does this as an act of compassion. And she hasn't bragged about it online or anywhere else in the 10 years I've known her. I just happened to be in the passenger seat to observe this. What's up with atheists bragging about their altruism? Do you want a cookie or something? Helping someone out isn't a contest. Either that's the type of person you are or not.
I have a friend who is a JW. I dont think she takes it extremely seriously, like she listens to rock music and stuff, etc, but I wish she wasn't because theyre against higher education and she is such a smart girl who could do so much more.
Well, I read that JW aren't fully against Education, but they do discourage it a lot. "You don't need education when you could just spread Jehovas words!!" Stuff like that.
higher education was discouraged among Jw's in North America for the longest time. I know the WT has the reverse position on university in countries that have the military draft, as higher education is usually is a way to get exempted.
Yes it was. I was brain washed and let my child quit school in 1973 to pioneer rather than be around all those worldly kids. After all we believed the end was coming in 1975 like they preached.Big mistake. No education leaves them supporting a family earning low wages ,barely able to eat. I was happy I was not ever going to grow old. Well all those that were around in 1914 that would never die are all dead, I am old, really old. So glad I did research and got out. All the truth they taught then ,now is not the truth but it all changed with their "new light" so what they are learning now as the truth they will find later is not the truth. Most of the people are good people just misled. Many are waking up and getting out.
yes they have always said Armaggedon is close so why waste time on education.Be a pioneer or go to Bethel. I was dumb enough to believe it and let my daughter quit high school to pioneer. that was 1973. After all the end was coming in 1975. LOL I did not know at that time they had given date after date and all failed as did 1975.Now they say "soon" LOL I was never going to grow old. Well guess what, I did grow old, very old.
Thank you Chris for involving JW. I was born and raised JW. Growing up in a cult like that really impaired me for years. I still am struggling to heal myself from the fear that was instilled in me as a child. I look forward to your other videos about other cults.
DragonPrincess88 No problem and I was hoping this episode would help people involved in the JWs just as finding out more about destructive cults has helped me. More to come in the not-too-distant future along this same vein.
wow! thank you both so much for putting this together. I've been away from the JW'S for over 15 years now (I was a born-in) and only lately have I been exploring activism, after I learned about the aggregious pedophile cover ups. Thinking about what I could do, I was thinking that collaboration with other cult survivors, regardless the denomination could be quite effective. There's strength in numbers and there are so many minds and lives being destroyed, especially with the kids being raised inside these soul prisons. I shudder to think of what would've happened to me had I needed a life saving blood transfusion as a voiceless child. When I was that young, there was no leniency on the blood issue. I was also molested within the congregation at 5 years of age and lived for years just knowing I was going to die in Armageddon for having "committed" fornication.
potentialitee Wow. I'm so sorry you had to experience that as a child and I'm so glad you got out of it. There are lots of reasons to speak out and contribute to the movement of exposing these destructive cults for the what they really are. People need to know the abuses and outright atrocities committed in the name of "religion". It's unacceptable in a civilized society what these groups get away with.
Let the name of Lloyd Evans be stricken from every book and tablet, stricken from all videos and podcasts, stricken from all pylons and obelisks, stricken from every monument of the world. Let the name of Lloyd Evans be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of men for all time. Shame on you Little Lloyd...
I had a bad experience with a Pastor at the church I was involved with. He had cheated on his wife with someone who he was counseling. I was never shunned. This is why I hate shunning. If your religion is so great you should be able to question what goes on in it without fearing losing your family.
thank you Chris and Lloyd for a sunshine and fresh air approach to demystify cults and all the horrors and troubles they bring to human beings. blessings all around.
Very Glad John Cedars took up this offer to share a Broadcast and conversation from the Scientology point of View. We need to see much more of these Shared conversations in the Future. This really shows the constructive way forward for Activism to Awake both doubting Scientologists and Fading Jehovah's Witnesses. Excellent!!! 😈👿😇😆😍😎😎😎
Look at Shelton, I remember the first time I saw ol' Shelton.. he was just a back drop in a AGP protest video, all Sea Org and corporate looking... LOOK AT HIM NOW! Fighting the good fight. Love this video Chris, I want to see more like this.. youre good as a talk show host..
:( apparently that video was taken down. But in a recent Q&A video, a fan asks for Chris to show a pic of him in his uniform. And Chris delivers! :) Might be a month or 2 ago. That was a really cool clip and I'm sad that it's gone. When some smug punk claims that nothing is ever gone from the internet..... well......sniff........... my little guy was posting up cute 8 year old type videos that Mom thought would be there forever. Nope! He deleted them all..............:( Cute stuff! Now he's back posting up Let's Play videos with the swear words in the titles. All gaming stuff. He got so excited when one of his videos got almost 100 views that I heard "what the F....?" come out of his room. "Hey! I heard that! Don't say the F word!" So he made the mistake of showing Mom the view count and his new channel name. But I'm a pain in the butt and have to go and give him a thumbs up anyway. I don't do Facebook. Twitter has limited utility. I love RUclips, though. What were we talking about? Oh yeah! Put cute kid videos on a thumb drive before they become teens and delete them. We should have downloaded that rare footage of Chris before it disappeared forever. Another regret.....
I was in the cult of Scientology for a couple of years or so, including a year and a half stint in the Sea Org. I wrote a short piece on my observations of this and a study of other cults. Submitted for your approval; HOW TO RECOGNIZE A CULT; It is amazing how similar a lot of cults are. It's like the Devil sold generic franchises, and all you did was change some of the words. 1. They all have an infallible leader. Some, like the Mormons, have a committee, but it's the same principle. They are always infallible. If a new leader or set of leaders takes over after the older ones croak, then they are also infallible. Even when they contradict earlier 'infallible' calls. 2. Everybody else is wrong and doomed. Even if they are fellows in the cult's professed faith. Believe in the clear promise of Jesus Christ to save those that believe in him? No way. No, they have to be a member of THEIR group and do the required works, or they are doomed. The 'Church' (What a blasphemy!) of $cientology considers anyone who practices their stuff outside of the official group one of the evilest people in the universe. Even if they do it exactly the same as the core organization. Which leads me to the next common characteristic. 3. Anyone who leaves is the worst kind of evil person in the world. Having rejected the 'One Truth' that their cult claims to have a monopoly on, they have totally given themselves over to the 'Devil' their 'reactive mind' or whatever the embodiment of the worst sort of evil is. The real reason, of course, is that the people who left know the facts about the cult, and obviously saw through it, and are in the best position to expose the lies and shortcomings of their former cult to those still in. Which begets the next horrible practice; 4. They all practice 'disconnection'. It's called various things; dis-fellowship, shunning, excommunication, what ever, it's the same thing; Absolutely no contact of any sort by the still duped cult member is allowed with the disconnected person. The dupes are told it's for their own good, as the evil influence might rub off on them, but of course it's because of what I mentioned before; they know exactly what to tell the still-in that might wake them up. That's hard, though. It seems logic and reason are totally ignored by the dupes when justifying their membership. 5. And that extends to the next trait; It is always absolutely forbidden for the cult member to examine or listen to any sort of criticism of the cult. It's always going to hurt them in some way, though I fail to understand how anyone could be so blind to think that information is dangerous. If they think it's false, fine, examine it and point out what they think is wrong, but they never do that. It's a forgone conclusion that it's evil and wrong because it criticizes the only good and true organization in the universe. But no, most don't even want to be exposed to this info. I suspect they subconsciously know (one way or another) that their belief is fragile, and the truth will collapse it, and admitting you were wrong about your core beliefs is one of the hardest things to do. I know. And the longer you are in, the harder it is. It's not impossible, though. The internet has made this pretty hard to enforce, which is why all the cults are shrinking in developed countries, and are only growing in places where the internet is rare, restricted, or both. The free exchange of experience and knowledge is disastrous for cults. The internet is by far the worst thing to ever happen to them. Yet. 6. Cults always ask for much more commitment in either time, money, or both than a valid church. A normal church has voluntary tithing, though I think that's a complete corruption of the tithe in the Old Testament that was intended to finance the extremely demanding and expensive Temple operations and support the very busy Priests. In my opinion, the only real Church is the body of believers in Jesus Christ, regardless of any other group, church, organization, country or race, etc, that they happen to be associated with. A cult always has mandatory 'donating' and it's usually more than ten percent. And most demand some draconian chunks of a modern working persons time. And most even have a small or large core group that demands all your resources of time or finances. 7. They all practice subtle mind-control techniques. These are never referred to as such, but they for sure are. They do things to build up an 'egregore'. This is an esoteric name for a group mind. 'Mob mentality' is sometimes used to discribe parts of this phenomenon. Chanting, 'praying' in tongues, worshiping pictures of the founders, even singing songs together all contribute to this. Many use group workshop-like activities to create an 'us vrs them' mentality. Using specialized terms and phrases is very effective at this. There are lots more techniques used, but they all have things in common. The suspension of critical thinking being the key reaction sought. It can be diabolically clever and complex like the $cientology auditing, or very innocuous like the Mormons all taking a turn on stage to blather the party line. But they always practice something. 8. The members always are reinforced in the belief that they are the wisest, most spiritual, special, chosen, blessed, and just the most fortunate people in the world (or universe in some cults!) when in fact if they ever do get out, they INVARIABLY have a hard time understanding how they could have been so foolish and blind. The recovery process is another fascinating subject, but this is probably already too long for a facebook post.
I mean, I'd say most people are comfortable with lies as long as they don't know they're being lied to. Or as long as they convince themselves that they aren't.
Hurray! I was wondering if we could expect the anti-scientology crowd to go after JW, but was afraid that because it looked too much like a 'legitimate' religion (too christian-esque) it would mean it was off-limits. I am so happy that's not the case with you. Also, I think I'm going to need to buy a new bookshelf just for anti-cult material because everyone has a book out o_o.
I was raised as one and left, this video would be great for people who don't know about the religion and people who want to get out. There is a lot of corruption within the religion but I believe it will self destruct
I think it's fantastic, you're helping to get the information out there on the Jehovah's Witnesses. Unfortunately, they aren't widely known as a cult, however, they certainly are, even practicing shunning, their version, of disconnection. Thank you for all your great information, on Scientology too, of course. I enjoy, and find your videos very insightful. Keep up the good work!!
New drinking game... Every time Chris says the word fascinating you take a shot!!! 😄😄 Just kidding Chris! Great video I don't know why but I'm just fascinated by this stuff!
I like hearing the compare and contrast of your experiences. I really think that some research and development should be undertaken so that we can educate people on cults. I think this is especially important today with those extremists groups targeting Muslims for terrorism. I suspect there is overlap and hope that someone contrasts these groups so that we can raise a society more resistant to cults (unhealthy group behavior).
If you go to a kingdom hall and you have children, please hold onto their hands going in and out of the hall. While you are there and if anytime your child has to get a drink or go to the bathroom then you take their hand and walk back there with them. Wait until they are done. Then walk them back to your seats- Good luck. You have been warned.
Thanks for that video! My wife grew up as a JW until she was about 10 years old, when her dad got out and then helped others get out. She appears to have come out remarkably undamaged. Interesting, how many similarities there are between JW and Co$. Do you think there is a secret manual on how to build a cult? Do these guys copy from each other? Do they have a "Cult Conference" every year, where they exchange strategies? My own theory is that there is a specific mindset / psychological condition that brings out exactly these kinds of strategies. What do you think? Thanks again.
Robert J Lifton's book 'Thought reform and Psychology of Totalism' and 'Combatting Cult Mind Control' by leading cult expert are some of the excellent books that give you the characteristics of cults.
Chris, this is one of my favorite videos that you have done! I thought that the JW's were just another religion. I remember when I was young, my father died and the JW's would come to my house all of the time and would try talking to my mom. They would force themselves into our home and tell my mom that my father wasn't really dead. My mother is Catholic! It had gotten so bad that one day, the neighbors had to come over and scream at them and tell them to never come back. Also, my husband dated a JW in high school and she was kicked out of the "church". Great video!!
Ive been disfellowshiped once when I was 21 fresh from watchtower farms in walkill NY. Got back reinstated 1 year later completely because it devastated my mom. Then stopped going a few year's later. My WHOLE FAMILY are members. Grew up jw in a house of 6. 3 sisters 2 brothers. My oldest brother and wife are missionary.
Great one again, fascinating, educational. You guys are doing a great job. Never exposed to much JW, other then like a lot of people hate getting those damn little pamphlets put on your doorstep and such. And if I see them walking up to the door I pretend I'm not home because they will practically put their foot in the door and never leave going on with their spiel.. Also I as recall when I was kid some of my childhood friends had been JW (their parents anyhow). They couldn't celebrate most of the holidays; no Halloween fun, etc., because it was all "paganism". Those poor kids missed out on a lot of fun.. Hey this reminds me of Warren Jeffs and that cult. I'm seeing all these connections and similarities, more, and more.. You should seriously write the "cult handbook"; "Creating and running a Cult 101", "How to create a cult for fun and profit!", etc. It would be great form of satire like those turn of the century political satire books "Gulliver's Travels", "Animal Farm", "1984", etc. Yea in one way it would be like a weapon (for evil, still closed societies to use), but actually by educating people it could point out those traps to avoid..
Just got handed a JW flyer today. It had a drawing of a little girl holding a hand of dirt with a sapling of a tree sprouting from the palms of her hand. Behind her, in the background, a drawing of the city going up in the chimney smoke of pollution. The parallels just with their brochures claiming to know "the" way to happiness or eternal spiritual freedom, surrounded by loved ones and family and a better hope for the future of the world, if only you grasp it right now and embrace our faith and our format. The parallels are just glaringly similar. But to people who have been through hardship, or awkward adolescence or who are in a hard time in their lives, we do tend to look for the silver lining or the group of people who is going to open the door when all the others seem closed. I can totally see how they prey on the ones who are more vulnerable or susceptible, the ones who want a better world for each other, one without pain or suffering, or pollution or crime. Who doesn't want that, you know? I just wish we couod teach our kids to be wary of such false advertising. Also got handed a scientology "ticket" to a showing of some film on dianetics. Free entry, of course. Needless to say, I didn't use it. The JW flyer seemed to quote the bible, and try to legitimize itself through that, but if one didn't know better, the whole link to their free bible readings has jw in its url. Definitely need to stay alert to sources and teach our kids how to know the difference!
I think part of the fascination with watching/listen to videos made by people who have been involved in a cult for years, maybe most of their lives, lies in finding out how many similarities there are in between various cults and now finding all this information put out there for free and without secrecy. If you have lived years or most of your life involved with a cult, this is a very fascinating experience and I still have bouts of wonder thinking "Wow, you experienced the same thing!", "Wow, your cult also had that element" or "Wow, your cult leader used those same methods to ensnare you just like ours did!". Even though you have known all of this for a long time having followed f.ex. your (Chris Shelton's) channel for a year or more, a certain sense of surprise will continue to resurface now and then for a long time in spite of all the knowledge you pick up on the way. You know, it is one thing realizing and finally seeing through your own cult's scams, but it is quite another to see it all "replicated" (I don't know if that's even a real world) in the form of a completely 'different' cult with a different name and an apparently completely different agenda and world view. I therefore think making videos where you exchange information and experiences with others who have a past being involved in a cult, but not Scientology, is a very strong initiative because it has the potential of making it basically impossible to reject the reality of what you're saying - once people actually take the first crucial step and watch your conversations.
This guy is a hoot. I mean that sincerely. I just watched his video on his car trip to England to get the 1st copies of his book and his initial bookstore appearances and mailing out copies to folks who had contributed to his fundraiser. I had that same thought I had when I started watching ex COS folks, how does a sharp person get caught up in that religion/destructive cult? The similarities between JW and COS are a path Steve Hassan got me started down. Fascinating stuff!
I was forced as a child to be a JW... as soon as I could around 14-15 I got out of it. Almost every kid I know growing up as a JW maybe more than 20... have all left the cult and are so much better.
Wow just wow! My dad was became a Jehovah's Witness Witness when I was 16 and remained one till his death, and although I never shared his beliefs I always though of them as a bit nutty but harmless all the same, their regular congregation members (equivilent of public scientologists I guess) seem such nice people to be honest, especially the way they helped us when he died. This video has been a real eye opener for me and made me question what he was involved with for all those years! Thanks Chris and Lloyd, keep up the good work.
Now I have heard it all. A black brother keeps stopping by my home and leaving awakes and watchtowers ever since I left that cult. He keeps telling me to read the magazines. I reply What for?I have seen all this before- Its just repition. I told him about the United Nations, child molestation,tol him about the watchtower charging interest on loans. And many other things. We have got into heated arguments. He still thinks the governing body can walk on water. Finally I dropped this on him. I asked himxxxxxif the governing body to9ld him that he would turn white the first of November would he believe that? He said he could not wait until the first of November. I gave up and shut my door on him. His mind has been destroyed by the MD pill. That's the Mental Diseased Pill.
Very informative. Raymond franz books were very influential in my leaving the Jehovahs witness church and Captives of a concept by Don Cameron. I definitely recommend those books.
I have been looking for information about JWs for a while as they do frequently visit me. I am going to devour Lloyd's information so that my future chats with JWs will be much more interesting.
Gabrielle Marsden after Leah Remini show came out I saw a video on RUclips with a Canadian couple. They were ex Jehovah Witnesses. They said interesting stuff and compared Church of Scientology to Jehovah Witnesses. sorry I can't do it cuz I can't remember their name. I just remembered they were this nice Canadian couple
girffrommars kissit Yeah. They are good at hiding it. Even when you are in it, you think that what you believe is just another religion, except the "right" religion.
Lloyd Evans is con artist, he set up a buisness in discouraging people who are Jehovah's witnesses, he is disliked even among other ex-Jehovah's witnesses. He is making money from this activity. It is no charitable act but an easy way to make money.
@@davidw.3606 i,m an ex jw and this guy lies a lot, JW,s aren't perfect but it's amazing how he blows thin5out of proportion I would love to debate him and make him look like a fool
I was extremely fortunate in having been reared, not in a cult but by a man who apparently discovered the techniques now so effectively used by cults all by himself. I was his Grand Experiment-- stolen from my parents and raised to prove his methods to the world. He failed utterly largely because he believed in the "Tabula Rasa" theory in the late 19th century: the belief that children are just empty pages that you can write whatever you like. I was to be his slave, literally his slave. It didn't work. I ran away-- because babies are NOT blank. My parents were dead, but what gifts they gave me in my DNA was very alive in me.
Interesting chat. Here in the UK, we had a big athletic event for para Olympians who performed at the 2012 Olympics London games, this was broadcast live on one of our main tv channels Channel 4, during the ad breaks they kept playing a Scientology advertisement. It's quite rare for a religious organisation to broadcast on one of our prime tv channels, I'm guessing it must have cost them a lot of money to play adverts, but I suppose they are not short of cash.
bonnie43uk I think the law in the UK was changed back in the 80s allowing religions to put advertisements on TV. However it is rare to see religions advertising on TV even though they can.
The stone that hits the feet of the image at Daniel 2:44 turns into a large mountain. According to Daniel 12 these ones are gradually whitened so who are they?
Very interesting discussion. Two observations: 1. Quite surprising to find intelligent and articulate people from inside cult organizations. 2. A great deal of what you discuss would also apply to mainstream religious organizations - say the Catholic Church. Mind control through childhood indoctrination plus limited conversion and recruitment of adults.
There was a girl in a few of my classes who was a JW and also her older sister. She was v clever. Must have been weird for being in a mainstream state school and be from such a minority belief system not realising it's a cult 🙁
Hi Chris and Evan, really informative video! I do feel like when I talk to JW they do feel like religion takes priority over government authority which I thought was weird because I associate very religious people with strict rules... I always though of the comparison between Scientology & JW since I have had JW friends before, however its much more well-known than Scientology so I didn't know if it was a cult; now I do. Next time do you guys think you can talk more about JW and non-JW? Like for example I had a friend in highschool who was JW, but her parents didn't like me and she told me she couldn't hangout with me (especially at night?), and eventually she stopped talking to me. Also she and her relatives picked a day (May 4) to exchange gifts and I was like.. isn't that celebrating still lol. And this year two people at my old job were JW. (I don't want to be too specific here) They would always make excuses as to why they wouldn't hangout with us out of work. Even though they seemed to like me a lot, they also avoid conversation in general with me unless I initiate it. Every JW I've ever met they don't seem to be uptight but they just tend to make excuses to not engage in social hangouts/conversation. -- Just thought this might be a good topic & I've never understood it. (Sorry for the long response)
My mum always told me about her friend who joined JWs when she was very vulnerable after a divorce and apparently they paid off all her debt for her? I don’t know if this is 100% true but would be interested to hear anyone else’s experience like this
They have another video, too! Maybe you've seen it since you left your comment a year ago :) I really enjoyed this video and the subsequent video collaboration. But I want to see a 3rd and a 4th and a 5th, too! I think the JW's are a much, much more difficult animal than Scientology. There are actually millions of JW's, while Scientology has less than 40,000 active members. But I love hearing Chris and Lloyd talk, too! More please, Chris and Lloyd!!! LOL
Lloyd Evans is right. Churches, not just cults, make a big deal of young people, young women especially, having consensual sex without being married while ignoring and covering up actual crimes: domestic abuse, sexual harrassment and sexual assault. it's a HUGE red flag, something is rotten here. 😞💔
You can't be an advocate against something. You can be a critic though, which in this case is excellent. :-) Thanks for a great discussion. I have never met a Scientologist here on Long Island, but in the New York area we have many JWs. I used to have weekly conversations with one every Saturday, until it became apparent that I was not converting, and he was only checking off a box on his requirements for the church.
I couldn't believe that I was sitting here and hearing what you were told about the death of your mom.They did this to me when my infant daughter died they EXPECTED me to be out in service just two weeks after her death...because of my upbring and early adult hood in the belief they used my daughter coming back as a carrot in front of me..hence I had a nervous breakdown ans now suffer PTSD
You were in sea org. Wow, poor guy. I worked for Sci. couple months, just curious and needed a job and a floor whereupon to sleep. Got fed up with the controllin and insensitivity. "He's blowin! Tr-6!"
SeaOrg members are like survivors of a boot camp, sometimes for years. If they turn their sights on other cults those cults will definitely be in big trouble. Determined SeaOrg members are used to working 24/7 and never giving up, especially if they decided it's good for people on the planet. ^_^
(In 1975) JW sent out a Watch Tower that indicated the end of the world was to be that year..So the year came and went.. That was the last time they tried to indicate a year. It’s funny when you stump them they will say...”THE LIGHT IS GETTING BRIGHTER”. In the watchtower the witnesses would have actual bible quotes from which their “Logic” of the watchtower to make sense of how they got their theory from.. Now they have removed the quotes in the watchtower books they hand out... they said because those are Study copies only members need and the public don’t need to follow along with the bible quotes. So now they do all 7 markers of a Cult!!!!
Wow so much about Australia in this video, it surprises me as I'm Australian and don't really hear much about them here. I am only just getting into researching more about these types of cults so maybe I've just missed a lot. Anyone here know much about Scientology and Jehovah's Witnesses in Aus? I've only ever had a couple of Mormon guys approach my friends and I in a park once.
The lady Celiala who has commended that the Jehovah's Witnesses are against higher education, as I was a JW for a very very long time, until I managed to break free. Regarding not being encouraged to gain higher education as a JW, is a shame since it has made a very negative impact in my life, now that I realized what it has done to me.
I was a Witness in my 20's and drifted away of my own accord but I was never coerced or forced to do anything against my will. I have never been told or read that I had to abstain from caffeine or soda or even liquor. It's true we are not supposed to be roaring drunk and obnoxious or to drink and drive. But I have drank a champagne glass at weddings etc. My witness friends were the only ones that even cared about me and if it wasn't for them I wouldve had no maternity clothes or items for my newborn. My ex mother in law is the most giving and kind person I know and I love almost more than my own mom who unfortunate ly died when I was young. Furthermore, I have seen how wonderfully they all work together and peacefully when volunteering to build new religious halls. They get no compensation for this and for the work they do in the religion. (There is one exception to this). I was never charged a fee for literature or studying the Bible either and there is no basket passed in the services for donations. There is a box kept in the back for anyone to donate without any pressure.
7) He mentioned boxing being a reason for shunning without giving context - so that sounds narrow minded or arbitrary: Well, EVERY activity that could be harmful to you or others. Now, you can do sports, but boxing is about HITTING someone else, and it can do damage to your brain or the brain of the other person. That is considered UNCHRISTIAN. Everything that harms your body and the health or life of others: smoking cigarettes or doing drugs (your body is your temple), sports that are usually considered dangerous or include violence. Even reckless driving. I heard of a case where a young man wrecked a car twice within maybe 2 years in spectactular accidents (and in both cases he was accountable for them). He recovered and no other person suffered lasting harm - but it seems that at least he had the "talk" with the elders. That agains was considered unchristian: to endanger your life or health or the life of others, be it by smoking cigarettes, drunk driving, or reckless driving. And I heard of another case where a man was engaged in a fist fight at a wedding (I think he was reprimanded, not expelled, he was not allowed to read the scriptures in the study group. He was not an elder, so that was the only obvious "degradation" to show he "strayed" from the right path). And on top such incidents give the whole group a bad name. * The thing with the blood transfusion they see justified as the will of good, and as far as I know they do not go after obesity. And like I mention: they messed up when dealing with pedophiles - which might have more to do with being overwhelmed and shocked. And admittedly: very willing to go the easy route that also would not damage the reputation of JWs. And hoping the repenting sinner would not do it again and that victim would find consolation in the faith. So things would be "nice" again. Not that it is an excuse: but it does not mean they condone the crime or are heartless about the damage done to the victims. ). * I think they - and also the Catholic Church with their confidential confessions-forgiveness scheme attract the creeps. I guess many are aware that what they do (feel compelled to do ? ) is wrong and have remorse, too. So they join a church - maybe in order to be saved from themselves and their impulses. I can see how someone can use the Catholic Church as convenient hunting ground. But JWs are expected to live their religion in a very active and dedicated manner, since they avoid to much interaction with the ungodly world, they interact a lot with each other. So JWs are not an obvious good choice for the predators. I assume many think they can reform within the confines of this strict religion (they are very black and white). I assume many FAIL to let the pedophile acts behind, so they use the confidentiality the elders grant or CAN grant them and open up about their sins. Promising betterment of course. But if there was no remorse they could have just gone on with their predatory behaviour w/o admitting anything. I assume some were accused and did not come out voluntarily. It seems the elders were overwhelmed, and ill equipped to deal with the situation. And THAT crime was too large and too shameful (also for the community) to handle it.
4) J.W.s are definitely NOT about the money. They are open about the teachings, the path to "salvation", and give away the trainings for free and the books at a very low price. Not sure it they make a profit on them. If so, it is not huge, nothing like the vultures of Scientology. - And having attended meeting - they never passed the basket for collecting money around like other churches. They had a discreet box for that. (They do not have the huge buildings to maintain, and the staff works for free or little cost, so no need to pressure people to donate)
Xyz Same-You are mistaken, WTBTS is all about money. Perhaps they do not appear to be blatantly passing round the hat, but they have subtle means of guilt tripping members concerning donations. At most assembly hall gatherings on the last day they will say that they are £ X amount short of the goal for the renting of the facilities. As they own the property in the first place they are merely paying themselves and considering that it is all tax free because they are 501(c) tax exempt. Although claiming not to take part in the military they are happy to receive dividends from the congregation money they have invested in Lockhead Martin. (see page 13 onwards) www.scribd.com/document/353415631/JW-Org-STOCKS-AND-SHARES
The deception creates a self guilt in the member and holds them hostage in their thinking . this is what I struggled with. if I think for my self then I'm guilty and that guilt has consequences. that is engrained and it destroys a person.
This was an excellent video. I had never thought of the JW as being a cult before. Only a couple of days ago a couple of them came to my house in fact, I politely told them I am not interested.
9) As you can see I am conflicted, respectively I have some sympathies for JWs even though it would not have been a fit for me. - I can for instance imagine that being gay or wanting more freedom to chose your beliefs and explore science and other faiths - while being raised in a JW family - could be very hard - potentially a drama or even traumatic with the shunning. Which I could witness was not handled THAT harshly - there were still some private contacts especially among close friends and the inner family, but that might have been that specific group, or the culture of the country being more laid back, or how they did it in the past. I saw a BBC interview about recent shunnings in the UK, where the adult family members cut the connections, siblings, parents. And the same time I came across about a lot of very nice, kind people, eager to do the right thing, working on their flaws and living by the gospel. I guess for those who find it easy to remain within the limitations they can have a good and meaningful life being an JW. Most people I knew had converted as adults, so they knew the other side, they had a chance. I reject the comparsion with Scientology. That Lloyd Evans might have an inclination to paint them a litte worse than they are, he gave his time for the JWs, did not build a career, is now short of another purpose in life - and has a future book to sell. The statement about the boxing was a giveaway: for a person that is O.K. with every other aspect of the religion: Sport is not going to be a hurdle. (There are more severe limitations on their freedom). Escpecially when it is connected to a noble principle of the religion: Do not harm to another human or to yourself. I reject the idea of boxing w/o any religious background - why encourage that ? Why entice young people to seek their professional chance in such a potentially harmful area. And as a hobby: there are less "impactful" workouts. Same with football or car racing btw. Oh, and they do not like females to engage in beauty contests - too vain, unfit for a modest Christian woman. And I think their ideas about modesty and modest clothing would collide with most model jobs, as well.
Please go read the experiences on the exJW Reddit. That religion takes people with a desire to help people and infantilize them. That's part of what makes them a cult.
I have coworker who was raised Catholic and I believe is now JW. she does not like the Catholic church and if you say anything about it she rolls her eyes and she's told me bad things that the current Pope said that he didn't even say. When I looked it up and found out what he said and told her she looked like she didn't believe me or discounted it . She's never told me she's Jehovah Witness but she has the beliefs on birthdays and holidays and the afterlife. Interesting thing she drinks like a lot. I know other that Jehovah's drink too. I thought they were some non-drinking non-smoking extremely Christian people. Found out that's not true
I was a JW for ten-plus years, got baptized in 1969. They preached Armageddon in 1975, didn't happen, the "Organization" apologized and said they never meant to suggest that 1975 was the definitive date. I met people who sold their properties, some quite wealthy, gave the $$ to the organization, big loss. I left the organization in 1981, went into the military, big no-no! Anyhow, the thing is, their doctrines do not concur with bible doctrines and they twist bible teaching to suit their agenda. The 144,000 "anointed remnant" for one, no such thing in the scriptures. The "dual resurrection", as in, the anointed go to heaven and the rest of the sheep stay below, NOT BIBLICAL. Some other glaring discrepancies that make one wonder how the heck they can continue to preach without being called out. This video is a primer, and it should get people in the "truth" to look deeper, as to who founded the religion (Charles Taze Russell, a snake oil salesman and a 33 degree Freemason). No, they do not threaten or stalk you, but if you are separated from the "truth" you WILL be destroyed in armageddon. And, if you have family members in the religion, say goodbye forever (my two sisters and mother). Also, they demoted Christ from his lofty perch and relegated him to being "a god" in the New World Translation (John 1:1). Now, where did this little "god" come from? "Thou shall not have any other gods before me" (Exodus 20:2). Well, meet the little god, Christ! And much much more. This is not a Christian religion, IT IS A CULT, PERIOD.
JW’s give the world of Jesus Christ lip service but do not teach his teachings because he taught love and forgiveness. They twist bible verses to support their vile teachings.
Isn't it just that mostly male leaders protect each other and the power they hold over their group and the ordinary private member , who are kept in a stronghold by the rules and punishments and relational power games... Saying, its about the power over others and having a top position within a certain society...which is also what happens in families and countries.. institutions and so on ,..power struggles and positioning and domination and submission
I came across an interesting quote by George Bernard Shaw that I thought you might find appropriate in talking about the teachings of Scientology; all cults for that matter.
"Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance."
So true!
He himself was a false spewer. A fabian.
@Marcin Berman He was a leader of socialism. Socialism is a step toward communism. Communism is actually dictatorship. Shaw's grand-nephew was business partner of my brother's brother-in-law.
Would love to see more of you two together Chris and Lloyd. You’re both excellent communicators.
One time when the JW's knocked on my door I told them I was a woman of science (which I am, but more on that in a sec) and had no use for their religion. They told me that they knew the laws of entropy, and that those laws were proof gawd existed. Then they committed a fatal error. They told me I could ask them ANYTHING about thermodynamics and entropy. So I asked them this:
"Why is the fourth law of thermodynamics called the 'zeroith' or 'zero' law? Shouldn't it be either four or zero? Explain the profound implications of why there is a 'zeroith' law knowing what we know about the other three laws. Also, I'd like you to tell me what the most recent, exciting development we learned about the fourth law, and it's overall implications of how we understand the universe and how it works. After all, it's not every day that Nobel Prize winning research is done in this very area (SF Bay Area) that changes the fundamentals of what we know about the physical universe."
...............................crickets
Never saw those two again. Can't think of why. In my defense, they did say I could ask ANYTHING.
His name is spelled God, not gawd
LLoyd, you hit the nail on the head when you said jw doubters are psychologically hesitant to run through the ‘apostasy barbed wire’ to watch a RUclips video on these subjects. I started by watching crime shows involving Mormons. Then I watched Scientology exposés and the next logical step was watching your channel and stoptheshunning.org This has allowed me to breathe after many, many years of fear. I quit attending the KH in 1991 after my nephew was shunned and almost killed himself. Thank you from my heart. Thank you. 😻
I have a friend who was raised as a JW. This story happened when I was home from college during summer break. She had left home and was working at the same restaurant I was and we became friends. There was another JW who worked with us and reported our friendship. Well, I liked to party and she started partying with me. So, she was told to stop hanging out with me and the members started spying on us. They would drive by her house and knock on the door if I was visiting. This started pissing her off and I was able to compare their behavior to regular churches. She finally left and has been free ever since.
Stranded in Utah Good story. I'm glad she got away!
+Chris Shelton I'm a bad influence. I lived in Utah with the Mormons for 7 long years and told my kids all the LDS dirty secrets. My son loved telling his LDS classmates about all Joseph Smith's wives. The LDS kids really thought he was only married to Emma.
As you are expanding, you should do the Mormons! They're a bundle of repression and crazy cult stuff. ExMormon.org (maybe .com) is a great site.
+Eric Lopez The church is opening up but the reality is that the kids we knew had no clue the Joseph Smith was a dirty perv. They thought he only had Emma. They knew about Brigham Young but not Ole Joe and they didn't know Emma left the church over polygamy. The books are there put people have to seek them out.Its not taught in Sunday school.
+Eric Lopez It seems to me that if they aren't hiding it they would teach about to the kids. I've seen how they tell people to avoid non LDS approved media. I've seen how they treat people who leave the church. I've seen the control exerted on people. I've seen people excommunicated for disagreeing with the leadership. It's not the church it wants outsiders to think it is. Only by living in Utah for 7 years did I see the truth.
Take 5 mins at Exmormon.org and you will find the main reason people leave is all the secrecy.
Followers of Yahshua (Jesus real name ) teach what he taught. What you do is between you, YHWH and Yahshua. Cults control your life. What they teach you , you are to believe and not question. They control every aspect of your life. They isolate you from any teaching or any others that are not in the cult. If you do not do what they say or think like they tell you to, you are punished. Told your bad and going to die a horrible death.
I'm not in a cult. I have lost my moral compass but in watching you Chris....it is recalibrating! Thank you and keep strong, we need you!
I had a great aunt who’s life was destroyed by the JW’s. She gave all her time and money to them. As a child I can remember her being the saddest person i knew. The was a real dust up when she passed from a condition she was told to ignore by her cult leaders. When I got older I researched the JW’s to understand what happened to her and was horrified by what they made her adhere to. I think her suffering made me take a degree in psychology to understand the overall conditioning of behavior and triggers used for cults to gain followers.both of these cults are very similar. Especially in the disconnection and separating of families.
OMG Chris, yes, please, include the JW in your mission! First off I had friends growing up who were JW and witnessed the destruction. From being separated from the class and isolated during holiday parties and celebrations to their parents relinquishing their right and the kid being punished by church elders. Every time my friend got in trouble she said she had to go to "church court". To recently, I'm the president of the HOA in the condo complex where I live and we have a JW owner who ruthlessly badgers, slanders and defames the board of managers over the most insane things one can think of. I actually hit on the greater CoS push, although I always had an awareness, because I felt it necessary to research deeper into the JW mind set to see what I was up against because the JW neighbor sued our HOA & management company.
Yes, they are very similar and each destructive! Keep up your usual stellar work my man! This world needs you! Hey, don't take this wrong, but, turns out you're a great Scientologist, you're helping people and working to clear the planet!! 😉
Carol Rogers also, if a jw commits a crime, they handle it "within" and do NOT EVER call the police.
😆
The internet is where religion comes to die.
MsYogaGrrrl All the good that religious institutions do can be accomplished without having to appeal to supernatural powers and magical thinking. I think it's actually a bit insulting to the people doing good to say that without religious thinking they would not be just as altruistic.
anon8109
That's not original
Thunderf00t said that line, though I'm not sure if he "originated" that quote.
If atheism isn't a religion, I don't quite get why YogaGrrl left a very moderate comment that anon8109 got all offended over and read things into it.
Uhm...who said that sincere acts of altruism, helping out someone in need, are null and void depending on your belief in God or belief in no god? I don't get why you are concerned about who gets some brownie points. Either you are helping someone out or you are scoring points for that not-a-religion called atheism.
A heck of a lot of people extend kindness to someone who needs a little help. One of my BFF's will pull over to that homeless person with a sign and ask, "Do you smoke?" And she'd give him/her a Marboro out of her pack. She didn't have $ to give for a long time, but she just wanted to give them something to help.
Now I know the anti-smoking people would disapprove. But she understood as smoker and wanted to give that bit of comfort.
Yes, she believed in God, but a very generic, non religious higher power type God. Didn't go to church or anything. But does this as an act of compassion.
And she hasn't bragged about it online or anywhere else in the 10 years I've known her. I just happened to be in the passenger seat to observe this.
What's up with atheists bragging about their altruism? Do you want a cookie or something?
Helping someone out isn't a contest. Either that's the type of person you are or not.
thank God 🙏🏾
Very interestin observation. The internet is where counterfeit/spurious religion comes to die.
I have a friend who is a JW. I dont think she takes it extremely seriously, like she listens to rock music and stuff, etc, but I wish she wasn't because theyre against higher education and she is such a smart girl who could do so much more.
Well, I read that JW aren't fully against Education, but they do discourage it a lot. "You don't need education when you could just spread Jehovas words!!"
Stuff like that.
higher education was discouraged among Jw's in North America for the longest time. I know the WT has the reverse position on university in countries that have the military draft, as higher education is usually is a way to get exempted.
Yes it was. I was brain washed and let my child quit school in 1973 to pioneer rather than be around all those worldly kids. After all we believed the end was coming in 1975 like they preached.Big mistake. No education leaves them supporting a family earning low wages ,barely able to eat. I was happy I was not ever going to grow old. Well all those that were around in 1914 that would never die are all dead, I am old, really old. So glad I did research and got out. All the truth they taught then ,now is not the truth but it all changed with their "new light" so what they are learning now as the truth they will find later is not the truth. Most of the people are good people just misled. Many are waking up and getting out.
They are still against it. They want them out door to door bringing in newpeople.more people more $$$$$$$$$$$$
yes they have always said Armaggedon is close so why waste time on education.Be a pioneer or go to Bethel. I was dumb enough to believe it and let my daughter quit high school to pioneer. that was 1973. After all the end was coming in 1975. LOL I did not know at that time they had given date after date and all failed as did 1975.Now they say "soon" LOL I was never going to grow old. Well guess what, I did grow old, very old.
Thank you Chris for involving JW. I was born and raised JW. Growing up in a cult like that really impaired me for years. I still am struggling to heal myself from the fear that was instilled in me as a child. I look forward to your other videos about other cults.
DragonPrincess88 No problem and I was hoping this episode would help people involved in the JWs just as finding out more about destructive cults has helped me. More to come in the not-too-distant future along this same vein.
wow! thank you both so much for putting this together. I've been away from the JW'S for over 15 years now (I was a born-in) and only lately have I been exploring activism, after I learned about the aggregious pedophile cover ups. Thinking about what I could do, I was thinking that collaboration with other cult survivors, regardless the denomination could be quite effective. There's strength in numbers and there are so many minds and lives being destroyed, especially with the kids being raised inside these soul prisons. I shudder to think of what would've happened to me had I needed a life saving blood transfusion as a voiceless child. When I was that young, there was no leniency on the blood issue. I was also molested within the congregation at 5 years of age and lived for years just knowing I was going to die in Armageddon for having "committed" fornication.
potentialitee Wow. I'm so sorry you had to experience that as a child and I'm so glad you got out of it. There are lots of reasons to speak out and contribute to the movement of exposing these destructive cults for the what they really are. People need to know the abuses and outright atrocities committed in the name of "religion". It's unacceptable in a civilized society what these groups get away with.
We need public schools to start educating their students on the dangers of destructive cults just as they do with anti-drug and alcohol programs.
No chance of that as the public schools are themselves in thrall to a cult - Wokeism!
Let the name of Lloyd Evans be stricken from every book and tablet, stricken from all videos and podcasts, stricken from all pylons and obelisks, stricken from every monument of the world. Let the name of Lloyd Evans be unheard and unspoken, erased from the memory of men for all time. Shame on you Little Lloyd...
I had a bad experience with a Pastor at the church I was involved with. He had cheated on his wife with someone who he was counseling. I was never shunned. This is why I hate shunning. If your religion is so great you should be able to question what goes on in it without fearing losing your family.
thank you Chris and Lloyd for a sunshine and fresh air approach to demystify cults and all the horrors and troubles they bring to human beings.
blessings all around.
Very Glad John Cedars took up this offer to share a Broadcast and conversation from the Scientology point of View. We need to see much more of these Shared conversations in the Future. This really shows the constructive way forward for Activism to Awake both doubting Scientologists and Fading Jehovah's Witnesses. Excellent!!! 😈👿😇😆😍😎😎😎
Look at Shelton, I remember the first time I saw ol' Shelton.. he was just a back drop in a AGP protest video, all Sea Org and corporate looking... LOOK AT HIM NOW! Fighting the good fight. Love this video Chris, I want to see more like this.. youre good as a talk show host..
:( apparently that video was taken down.
But in a recent Q&A video, a fan asks for Chris to show a pic of him in his uniform. And Chris delivers! :) Might be a month or 2 ago.
That was a really cool clip and I'm sad that it's gone.
When some smug punk claims that nothing is ever gone from the internet.....
well......sniff........... my little guy was posting up cute 8 year old type videos that Mom thought would be there forever.
Nope! He deleted them all..............:( Cute stuff!
Now he's back posting up Let's Play videos with the swear words in the titles. All gaming stuff. He got so excited when one of his videos got almost 100 views that I heard "what the F....?" come out of his room.
"Hey! I heard that! Don't say the F word!"
So he made the mistake of showing Mom the view count and his new channel name.
But I'm a pain in the butt and have to go and give him a thumbs up anyway. I don't do Facebook. Twitter has limited utility. I love RUclips, though.
What were we talking about? Oh yeah! Put cute kid videos on a thumb drive before they become teens and delete them.
We should have downloaded that rare footage of Chris before it disappeared forever. Another regret.....
I was in the cult of Scientology for a couple of years or so, including a year and a half stint in the Sea Org.
I wrote a short piece on my observations of this and a study of other cults. Submitted for your approval;
HOW TO RECOGNIZE A CULT;
It is amazing how similar a lot of cults are. It's like the Devil sold generic franchises, and all you did was change some of the words.
1. They all have an infallible leader. Some, like the Mormons, have a committee, but it's the same principle. They are always infallible. If a new leader or set of leaders takes over after the older ones croak, then they are also infallible. Even when they contradict earlier 'infallible' calls.
2. Everybody else is wrong and doomed. Even if they are fellows in the cult's professed faith. Believe in the clear promise of Jesus Christ to save those that believe in him? No way. No, they have to be a member of THEIR group and do the required works, or they are doomed. The 'Church' (What a blasphemy!) of $cientology considers anyone who practices their stuff outside of the official group one of the evilest people in the universe. Even if they do it exactly the same as the core organization. Which leads me to the next common characteristic.
3. Anyone who leaves is the worst kind of evil person in the world. Having rejected the 'One Truth' that their cult claims to have a monopoly on, they have totally given themselves over to the 'Devil' their 'reactive mind' or whatever the embodiment of the worst sort of evil is. The real reason, of course, is that the people who left know the facts about the cult, and obviously saw through it, and are in the best position to expose the lies and shortcomings of their former cult to those still in. Which begets the next horrible practice;
4. They all practice 'disconnection'. It's called various things; dis-fellowship, shunning, excommunication, what ever, it's the same thing; Absolutely no contact of any sort by the still duped cult member is allowed with the disconnected person. The dupes are told it's for their own good, as the evil influence might rub off on them, but of course it's because of what I mentioned before; they know exactly what to tell the still-in that might wake them up. That's hard, though. It seems logic and reason are totally ignored by the dupes when justifying their membership.
5. And that extends to the next trait; It is always absolutely forbidden for the cult member to examine or listen to any sort of criticism of the cult. It's always going to hurt them in some way, though I fail to understand how anyone could be so blind to think that information is dangerous. If they think it's false, fine, examine it and point out what they think is wrong, but they never do that. It's a forgone conclusion that it's evil and wrong because it criticizes the only good and true organization in the universe. But no, most don't even want to be exposed to this info. I suspect they subconsciously know (one way or another) that their belief is fragile, and the truth will collapse it, and admitting you were wrong about your core beliefs is one of the hardest things to do. I know. And the longer you are in, the harder it is. It's not impossible, though.
The internet has made this pretty hard to enforce, which is why all the cults are shrinking in developed countries, and are only growing in places where the internet is rare, restricted, or both. The free exchange of experience and knowledge is disastrous for cults. The internet is by far the worst thing to ever happen to them. Yet.
6. Cults always ask for much more commitment in either time, money, or both than a valid church. A normal church has voluntary tithing, though I think that's a complete corruption of the tithe in the Old Testament that was intended to finance the extremely demanding and expensive Temple operations and support the very busy Priests.
In my opinion, the only real Church is the body of believers in Jesus Christ, regardless of any other group, church, organization, country or race, etc, that they happen to be associated with.
A cult always has mandatory 'donating' and it's usually more than ten percent. And most demand some draconian chunks of a modern working persons time. And most even have a small or large core group that demands all your resources of time or finances.
7. They all practice subtle mind-control techniques. These are never referred to as such, but they for sure are. They do things to build up an 'egregore'. This is an esoteric name for a group mind. 'Mob mentality' is sometimes used to discribe parts of this phenomenon. Chanting, 'praying' in tongues, worshiping pictures of the founders, even singing songs together all contribute to this. Many use group workshop-like activities to create an 'us vrs them' mentality.
Using specialized terms and phrases is very effective at this.
There are lots more techniques used, but they all have things in common. The suspension of critical thinking being the key reaction sought. It can be diabolically clever and complex like the $cientology auditing, or very innocuous like the Mormons all taking a turn on stage to blather the party line. But they always practice something.
8. The members always are reinforced in the belief that they are the wisest, most spiritual, special, chosen, blessed, and just the most fortunate people in the world (or universe in some cults!) when in fact if they ever do get out, they INVARIABLY have a hard time understanding how they could have been so foolish and blind.
The recovery process is another fascinating subject, but this is probably already too long for a facebook post.
They always get money. The JW's are a little more clever getting it from their members.
Happy for you for getting out.
Facebook post?
REALLY enjoyed this one. Love all the interviews you've done. Keep 'em coming!
Where did an entire hour go? Fascinating!
I can't wait to see all the future collaboration!
***** Excellent. There are definitely more to come.
Interesting and engaging program! Love the compare/contrast.
Lloyd is such a welcome addition to the conversation about Scientology--and the attention he brings to the JW issue is of immeasurable value.
I am amazed at how many similarities can be drawn between JV and Scio. Well done Chris and Lloyd.
And if you throw in the Mormons, other similarities quickly emerge.
"No one likes being lied to." How I wish that were true.
Wow heavy dude
I love these comments! Especially with both your names right after each other!
I mean, I'd say most people are comfortable with lies as long as they don't know they're being lied to. Or as long as they convince themselves that they aren't.
God himself said he'd give the church of rome because folks wanted lies.
Nowadays LLoyd E is using Fair game on every one questioning him. Guess he learned it from Scientology tactics
Hurray! I was wondering if we could expect the anti-scientology crowd to go after JW, but was afraid that because it looked too much like a 'legitimate' religion (too christian-esque) it would mean it was off-limits. I am so happy that's not the case with you. Also, I think I'm going to need to buy a new bookshelf just for anti-cult material because everyone has a book out o_o.
I was raised as one and left, this video would be great for people who don't know about the religion and people who want to get out. There is a lot of corruption within the religion but I believe it will self destruct
Hi Chris - fabulous video. Would love to see a similar collaboration with a former Mormon. Keep fighting the good fight!
This was a great exchange of information!
I think it's fantastic, you're helping to get the information out there on the Jehovah's Witnesses. Unfortunately, they aren't widely known as a cult, however, they certainly are, even practicing shunning, their version, of disconnection. Thank you for all your great information, on Scientology too, of course. I enjoy, and find your videos very insightful. Keep up the good work!!
Thanks Sheri. I really appreciate it.
New drinking game... Every time Chris says the word fascinating you take a shot!!! 😄😄 Just kidding Chris! Great video I don't know why but I'm just fascinated by this stuff!
Lol!
I like hearing the compare and contrast of your experiences. I really think that some research and development should be undertaken so that we can educate people on cults. I think this is especially important today with those extremists groups targeting Muslims for terrorism. I suspect there is overlap and hope that someone contrasts these groups so that we can raise a society more resistant to cults (unhealthy group behavior).
Thank you for your efforts to understand our world.
If you go to a kingdom hall and you have children, please hold onto their hands going in and out of the hall. While you are there and if anytime your child has to get a drink or go to the bathroom then you take their hand and walk back there with them. Wait until they are done. Then walk them back to your seats- Good luck. You have been warned.
Never lave them alone with a JW
John Newsome that’s not true at all.
Well done, guys. Shared.
Do you include FLDS in your discussions?
Thanks for that video! My wife grew up as a JW until she was about 10 years old, when her dad got out and then helped others get out. She appears to have come out remarkably undamaged.
Interesting, how many similarities there are between JW and Co$. Do you think there is a secret manual on how to build a cult? Do these guys copy from each other? Do they have a "Cult Conference" every year, where they exchange strategies?
My own theory is that there is a specific mindset / psychological condition that brings out exactly these kinds of strategies. What do you think?
Thanks again.
Robert J Lifton's book 'Thought reform and Psychology of Totalism' and 'Combatting Cult Mind Control' by leading cult expert are some of the excellent books that give you the characteristics of cults.
They all Have an astute understanding of psychology and how to employ propaganda techniques.
to be fair, the template followed by the cults remind me of abusive partners' behaviour on a larger and more systematic scale
Chris, this is one of my favorite videos that you have done! I thought that the JW's were just another religion. I remember when I was young, my father died and the JW's would come to my house all of the time and would try talking to my mom. They would force themselves into our home and tell my mom that my father wasn't really dead. My mother is Catholic! It had gotten so bad that one day, the neighbors had to come over and scream at them and tell them to never come back. Also, my husband dated a JW in high school and she was kicked out of the "church". Great video!!
Wow!
Gigi Izzy I thought they admit they are dead that's their whole thing
@@romant142 They mean the hope of a bodily “resurrection.”
Ive been disfellowshiped once when I was 21 fresh from watchtower farms in walkill NY. Got back reinstated 1 year later completely because it devastated my mom. Then stopped going a few year's later. My WHOLE FAMILY are members. Grew up jw in a house of 6. 3 sisters 2 brothers. My oldest brother and wife are missionary.
Great one again, fascinating, educational.
You guys are doing a great job.
Never exposed to much JW, other then like a lot of people hate getting those damn little pamphlets put on your doorstep and such. And if I see them walking up to the door I pretend I'm not home because they will practically put their foot in the door and never leave going on with their spiel..
Also I as recall when I was kid some of my childhood friends had been JW (their parents anyhow). They couldn't celebrate most of the holidays; no Halloween fun, etc., because it was all "paganism". Those poor kids missed out on a lot of fun..
Hey this reminds me of Warren Jeffs and that cult. I'm seeing all these connections and similarities, more, and more..
You should seriously write the "cult handbook"; "Creating and running a Cult 101", "How to create a cult for fun and profit!", etc.
It would be great form of satire like those turn of the century political satire books "Gulliver's Travels", "Animal Farm", "1984", etc.
Yea in one way it would be like a weapon (for evil, still closed societies to use), but actually by educating people it could point out those traps to avoid..
Just got handed a JW flyer today. It had a drawing of a little girl holding a hand of dirt with a sapling of a tree sprouting from the palms of her hand. Behind her, in the background, a drawing of the city going up in the chimney smoke of pollution. The parallels just with their brochures claiming to know "the" way to happiness or eternal spiritual freedom, surrounded by loved ones and family and a better hope for the future of the world, if only you grasp it right now and embrace our faith and our format. The parallels are just glaringly similar. But to people who have been through hardship, or awkward adolescence or who are in a hard time in their lives, we do tend to look for the silver lining or the group of people who is going to open the door when all the others seem closed. I can totally see how they prey on the ones who are more vulnerable or susceptible, the ones who want a better world for each other, one without pain or suffering, or pollution or crime. Who doesn't want that, you know? I just wish we couod teach our kids to be wary of such false advertising. Also got handed a scientology "ticket" to a showing of some film on dianetics. Free entry, of course. Needless to say, I didn't use it. The JW flyer seemed to quote the bible, and try to legitimize itself through that, but if one didn't know better, the whole link to their free bible readings has jw in its url. Definitely need to stay alert to sources and teach our kids how to know the difference!
I think part of the fascination with watching/listen to videos made by people who have been involved in a cult for years, maybe most of their lives, lies in finding out how many similarities there are in between various cults and now finding all this information put out there for free and without secrecy.
If you have lived years or most of your life involved with a cult, this is a very fascinating experience and I still have bouts of wonder thinking "Wow, you experienced the same thing!", "Wow, your cult also had that element" or "Wow, your cult leader used those same methods to ensnare you just like ours did!".
Even though you have known all of this for a long time having followed f.ex. your (Chris Shelton's) channel for a year or more, a certain sense of surprise will continue to resurface now and then for a long time in spite of all the knowledge you pick up on the way.
You know, it is one thing realizing and finally seeing through your own cult's scams, but it is quite another to see it all "replicated" (I don't know if that's even a real world) in the form of a completely 'different' cult with a different name and an apparently completely different agenda and world view.
I therefore think making videos where you exchange information and experiences with others who have a past being involved in a cult, but not Scientology, is a very strong initiative because it has the potential of making it basically impossible to reject the reality of what you're saying - once people actually take the first crucial step and watch your conversations.
This guy is a hoot. I mean that sincerely. I just watched his video on his car trip to England to get the 1st copies of his book and his initial bookstore appearances and mailing out copies to folks who had contributed to his fundraiser. I had that same thought I had when I started watching ex COS folks, how does a sharp person get caught up in that religion/destructive cult?
The similarities between JW and COS are a path Steve Hassan got me started down. Fascinating stuff!
Thank you for posting this. Very informative!
I was forced as a child to be a JW... as soon as I could around 14-15 I got out of it. Almost every kid I know growing up as a JW maybe more than 20... have all left the cult and are so much better.
Wow just wow!
My dad was became a Jehovah's Witness Witness when I was 16 and remained one till his death, and although I never shared his beliefs I always though of them as a bit nutty but harmless all the same, their regular congregation members (equivilent of public scientologists I guess) seem such nice people to be honest, especially the way they helped us when he died. This video has been a real eye opener for me and made me question what he was involved with for all those years! Thanks Chris and Lloyd, keep up the good work.
Nice to have the two groups compared and see the similarities between them. Keep up the good work.
Now I have heard it all. A black brother keeps stopping by my home and leaving awakes and watchtowers ever since I left that cult. He keeps telling me to read the magazines. I reply What for?I have seen all this before- Its just repition. I told him about the United Nations, child molestation,tol him about the watchtower charging interest on loans. And many other things. We have got into heated arguments. He still thinks the governing body can walk on water. Finally I dropped this on him. I asked himxxxxxif the governing body to9ld him that he would turn white the first of November would he believe that? He said he could not wait until the first of November. I gave up and shut my door on him. His mind has been destroyed by the MD pill. That's the Mental Diseased Pill.
Great Episode. Loved it. Also, congratulations on now having over 4000 subscribers.
thank you very much :-)
The RUclips and the Internet are the biggest blessings anyone can hope to have!
Another great video, thank you👍
Very informative. Raymond franz books were very influential in my leaving the Jehovahs witness church and Captives of a concept by Don Cameron. I definitely recommend those books.
Thanks so much for doing this.
+enigma1863 Your'e very welcome.
Great video 🙃 thnx for sharing
I have been looking for information about JWs for a while as they do frequently visit me. I am going to devour Lloyd's information so that my future chats with JWs will be much more interesting.
Gabrielle Marsden after Leah Remini show came out I saw a video on RUclips with a Canadian couple. They were ex Jehovah Witnesses. They said interesting stuff and compared Church of Scientology to Jehovah Witnesses. sorry I can't do it cuz I can't remember their name. I just remembered they were this nice Canadian couple
wow this was super informative. I just thought of JW as another church group.
girffrommars kissit Yeah. They are good at hiding it. Even when you are in it, you think that what you believe is just another religion, except the "right" religion.
girffrommars kissit
All the cults are forced to camouflage their true nature these days. God bless the internet.
Wow, a lot of false information being put out here. Rutherford deading his property to Moses etc???
Lloyd Evans is con artist, he set up a buisness in discouraging people who are Jehovah's witnesses, he is disliked even among other ex-Jehovah's witnesses. He is making money from this activity. It is no charitable act but an easy way to make money.
@@davidw.3606 i,m an ex jw and this guy lies a lot, JW,s aren't perfect but it's amazing how he blows thin5out of proportion I would love to debate him and make him look like a fool
I was extremely fortunate in having been reared, not in a cult but by a man who apparently discovered the techniques now so
effectively used by cults all by himself. I was his Grand Experiment-- stolen from my parents and raised to prove his methods
to the world. He failed utterly largely because he believed in the "Tabula Rasa" theory in the late 19th century: the belief that
children are just empty pages that you can write whatever you like. I was to be his slave, literally his slave. It didn't work. I ran
away-- because babies are NOT blank. My parents were dead, but what gifts they gave me in my DNA was very alive in me.
Interesting chat. Here in the UK, we had a big athletic event for para Olympians who performed at the 2012 Olympics London games, this was broadcast live on one of our main tv channels Channel 4, during the ad breaks they kept playing a Scientology advertisement. It's quite rare for a religious organisation to broadcast on one of our prime tv channels, I'm guessing it must have cost them a lot of money to play adverts, but I suppose they are not short of cash.
bonnie43uk I think the law in the UK was changed back in the 80s allowing religions to put advertisements on TV. However it is rare to see religions advertising on TV even though they can.
Espero que su videos sean pronto traducidos en otros ideomas principalmente en español o con subtitulos
The stone that hits the feet of the image at Daniel 2:44 turns into a large mountain. According to Daniel 12 these ones are gradually whitened so who are they?
Very interesting discussion. Two observations: 1. Quite surprising to find intelligent and articulate people from inside cult organizations. 2. A great deal of what you discuss would also apply to mainstream religious organizations - say the Catholic Church. Mind control through childhood indoctrination plus limited conversion and recruitment of adults.
Thank you for sharing your stories.
There was a girl in a few of my classes who was a JW and also her older sister. She was v clever. Must have been weird for being in a mainstream state school and be from such a minority belief system not realising it's a cult 🙁
An episode about Mormonism would be great! All the crazy crap LRH came up with pales in comparison to Joeseph Smith.
great video both you keep up the good work
very good info
Hi Chris and Evan, really informative video! I do feel like when I talk to JW they do feel like religion takes priority over government authority which I thought was weird because I associate very religious people with strict rules... I always though of the comparison between Scientology & JW since I have had JW friends before, however its much more well-known than Scientology so I didn't know if it was a cult; now I do. Next time do you guys think you can talk more about JW and non-JW? Like for example I had a friend in highschool who was JW, but her parents didn't like me and she told me she couldn't hangout with me (especially at night?), and eventually she stopped talking to me. Also she and her relatives picked a day (May 4) to exchange gifts and I was like.. isn't that celebrating still lol. And this year two people at my old job were JW. (I don't want to be too specific here) They would always make excuses as to why they wouldn't hangout with us out of work. Even though they seemed to like me a lot, they also avoid conversation in general with me unless I initiate it. Every JW I've ever met they don't seem to be uptight but they just tend to make excuses to not engage in social hangouts/conversation. -- Just thought this might be a good topic & I've never understood it. (Sorry for the long response)
One acquaintance of mine was a member of JW for 4 Years and suddenly she decided to join Scientology. That was a really crazy lady.
In the 70s I recall going to the SF Calif Cow Palace Assemblies.
But don't remember attendance #s, it was full capacity.
Chris Shelton, since you left Scientology, have you joined any other church?
Nope.
My mum always told me about her friend who joined JWs when she was very vulnerable after a divorce and apparently they paid off all her debt for her? I don’t know if this is 100% true but would be interested to hear anyone else’s experience like this
Not likely from my experience.
There is a JW that used to work at Pixar. And I was told the Watchtower used him to make the animated movies.
I suggest for a future video having a Mormon involved in comparing all three cults.
I was hoping you two would join forces! :)
They have another video, too!
Maybe you've seen it since you left your comment a year ago :)
I really enjoyed this video and the subsequent video collaboration.
But I want to see a 3rd and a 4th and a 5th, too!
I think the JW's are a much, much more difficult animal than Scientology. There are actually millions of JW's, while Scientology has less than 40,000 active members. But I love hearing Chris and Lloyd talk, too!
More please, Chris and Lloyd!!! LOL
Lloyd Evans is right. Churches, not just cults, make a big deal of young people, young women especially, having consensual sex without being married while ignoring and covering up actual crimes: domestic abuse, sexual harrassment and sexual assault. it's a HUGE red flag, something is rotten here.
😞💔
You can't be an advocate against something. You can be a critic though, which in this case is excellent. :-) Thanks for a great discussion. I have never met a Scientologist here on Long Island, but in the New York area we have many JWs. I used to have weekly conversations with one every Saturday, until it became apparent that I was not converting, and he was only checking off a box on his requirements for the church.
One difference is I do not think jw has a version of rpf.
I couldn't believe that I was sitting here and hearing what you were told about the death of your mom.They did this to me when my infant daughter died they EXPECTED me to be out in service just two weeks after her death...because of my upbring and early adult hood in the belief they used my daughter coming back as a carrot in front of me..hence I had a nervous breakdown ans now suffer PTSD
You were in sea org. Wow, poor guy. I worked for Sci. couple months, just curious and needed a job and a floor whereupon to sleep. Got fed up with the controllin and insensitivity. "He's blowin! Tr-6!"
SeaOrg members are like survivors of a boot camp, sometimes for years. If they turn their sights on other cults those cults will definitely be in big trouble. Determined SeaOrg members are used to working 24/7 and never giving up, especially if they decided it's good for people on the planet. ^_^
(In 1975) JW sent out a Watch Tower that indicated the end of the world was to be that year..So the year came and went.. That was the last time they tried to indicate a year. It’s funny when you stump them they will say...”THE LIGHT IS GETTING BRIGHTER”.
In the watchtower the witnesses would have actual bible quotes from which their “Logic” of the watchtower to make sense of how they got their theory from.. Now they have removed the quotes in the watchtower books they hand out... they said because those are Study copies only members need and the public don’t need to follow along with the bible quotes. So now they do all 7 markers of a Cult!!!!
Wow so much about Australia in this video, it surprises me as I'm Australian and don't really hear much about them here. I am only just getting into researching more about these types of cults so maybe I've just missed a lot. Anyone here know much about Scientology and Jehovah's Witnesses in Aus? I've only ever had a couple of Mormon guys approach my friends and I in a park once.
I myself would love to see a similar comparison specifically on the characters and personalities of L. Ron Hubbard and Judge Rutherford.
He was im Croatia? I hope he liked it! :)
Ever cover the Christian Science church?
The lady Celiala who has commended that the Jehovah's Witnesses are against higher education, as I was a JW for a very very long time, until I managed to break free. Regarding not being encouraged to gain higher education as a JW, is a shame since it has made a very negative impact in my life, now that I realized what it has done to me.
I was a Witness in my 20's and drifted away of my own accord but I was never coerced or forced to do anything against my will. I have never been told or read that I had to abstain from caffeine or soda or even liquor. It's true we are not supposed to be roaring drunk and obnoxious or to drink and drive. But I have drank a champagne glass at weddings etc. My witness friends were the only ones that even cared about me and if it wasn't for them I wouldve had no maternity clothes or items for my newborn. My ex mother in law is the most giving and kind person I know and I love almost more than my own mom who unfortunate ly died when I was young. Furthermore, I have seen how wonderfully they all work together and peacefully when volunteering to build new religious halls. They get no compensation for this and for the work they do in the religion. (There is one exception to this). I was never charged a fee for literature or studying the Bible either and there is no basket passed in the services for donations. There is a box kept in the back for anyone to donate without any pressure.
good episode
They keep you busy and exhausted, so you have no time or inclination to research things on your own.
Religion: "How to get money from your pocket into mine?
7) He mentioned boxing being a reason for shunning without giving context - so that sounds narrow minded or arbitrary: Well, EVERY activity that could be harmful to you or others. Now, you can do sports, but boxing is about HITTING someone else, and it can do damage to your brain or the brain of the other person. That is considered UNCHRISTIAN.
Everything that harms your body and the health or life of others: smoking cigarettes or doing drugs (your body is your temple), sports that are usually considered dangerous or include violence.
Even reckless driving. I heard of a case where a young man wrecked a car twice within maybe 2 years in spectactular accidents (and in both cases he was accountable for them). He recovered and no other person suffered lasting harm - but it seems that at least he had the "talk" with the elders. That agains was considered unchristian: to endanger your life or health or the life of others, be it by smoking cigarettes, drunk driving, or reckless driving.
And I heard of another case where a man was engaged in a fist fight at a wedding (I think he was reprimanded, not expelled, he was not allowed to read the scriptures in the study group. He was not an elder, so that was the only obvious "degradation" to show he "strayed" from the right path).
And on top such incidents give the whole group a bad name.
* The thing with the blood transfusion they see justified as the will of good, and as far as I know they do not go after obesity.
And like I mention: they messed up when dealing with pedophiles - which might have more to do with being overwhelmed and shocked. And admittedly: very willing to go the easy route that also would not damage the reputation of JWs. And hoping the repenting sinner would not do it again and that victim would find consolation in the faith. So things would be "nice" again.
Not that it is an excuse: but it does not mean they condone the crime or are heartless about the damage done to the victims. ). *
I think they - and also the Catholic Church with their confidential confessions-forgiveness scheme attract the creeps.
I guess many are aware that what they do (feel compelled to do ? ) is wrong and have remorse, too.
So they join a church - maybe in order to be saved from themselves and their impulses.
I can see how someone can use the Catholic Church as convenient hunting ground.
But JWs are expected to live their religion in a very active and dedicated manner, since they avoid to much interaction with the ungodly world, they interact a lot with each other. So JWs are not an obvious good choice for the predators.
I assume many think they can reform within the confines of this strict religion (they are very black and white). I assume many FAIL to let the pedophile acts behind, so they use the confidentiality the elders grant or CAN grant them and open up about their sins.
Promising betterment of course. But if there was no remorse they could have just gone on with their predatory behaviour w/o admitting anything.
I assume some were accused and did not come out voluntarily. It seems the elders were overwhelmed, and ill equipped to deal with the situation. And THAT crime was too large and too shameful (also for the community) to handle it.
4) J.W.s are definitely NOT about the money. They are open about the teachings, the path to "salvation", and give away the trainings for free and the books at a very low price. Not sure it they make a profit on them. If so, it is not huge, nothing like the vultures of Scientology. - And having attended meeting - they never passed the basket for collecting money around like other churches. They had a discreet box for that. (They do not have the huge buildings to maintain, and the staff works for free or little cost, so no need to pressure people to donate)
Xyz Same-You are mistaken, WTBTS is all about money. Perhaps they do not appear to be blatantly passing round the hat, but they have subtle means of guilt tripping members concerning donations. At most assembly hall gatherings on the last day they will say that they are £ X amount short of the goal for the renting of the facilities. As they own the property in the first place they are merely paying themselves and considering that it is all tax free because they are 501(c) tax exempt. Although claiming not to take part in the military they are happy to receive dividends from the congregation money they have invested in Lockhead Martin. (see page 13 onwards) www.scribd.com/document/353415631/JW-Org-STOCKS-AND-SHARES
I agree completely. JW's are not about money. They are evangelists.
You must have missed all the sermons guilt tripping people into giving money.
I wish the Mormon interviewee had been asked all the same questions because they would have found a lot more similarities to both Scientology and JWs
The deception creates a self guilt in the member and holds them hostage in their thinking . this is what I struggled with. if I think for my self then I'm guilty and that guilt has consequences. that is engrained and it destroys a person.
This was an excellent video. I had never thought of the JW as being a cult before. Only a couple of days ago a couple of them came to my house in fact, I politely told them I am not interested.
9) As you can see I am conflicted, respectively I have some sympathies for JWs even though it would not have been a fit for me. - I can for instance imagine that being gay or wanting more freedom to chose your beliefs and explore science and other faiths - while being raised in a JW family - could be very hard - potentially a drama or even traumatic with the shunning.
Which I could witness was not handled THAT harshly - there were still some private contacts especially among close friends and the inner family, but that might have been that specific group, or the culture of the country being more laid back, or how they did it in the past. I saw a BBC interview about recent shunnings in the UK, where the adult family members cut the connections, siblings, parents.
And the same time I came across about a lot of very nice, kind people, eager to do the right thing, working on their flaws and living by the gospel.
I guess for those who find it easy to remain within the limitations they can have a good and meaningful life being an JW.
Most people I knew had converted as adults, so they knew the other side, they had a chance.
I reject the comparsion with Scientology. That Lloyd Evans might have an inclination to paint them a litte worse than they are, he gave his time for the JWs, did not build a career, is now short of another purpose in life - and has a future book to sell.
The statement about the boxing was a giveaway: for a person that is O.K. with every other aspect of the religion: Sport is not going to be a hurdle. (There are more severe limitations on their freedom).
Escpecially when it is connected to a noble principle of the religion: Do not harm to another human or to yourself.
I reject the idea of boxing w/o any religious background - why encourage that ? Why entice young people to seek their professional chance in such a potentially harmful area. And as a hobby: there are less "impactful" workouts.
Same with football or car racing btw.
Oh, and they do not like females to engage in beauty contests - too vain, unfit for a modest Christian woman. And I think their ideas about modesty and modest clothing would collide with most model jobs, as well.
Please go read the experiences on the exJW Reddit. That religion takes people with a desire to help people and infantilize them. That's part of what makes them a cult.
I have coworker who was raised Catholic and I believe is now JW. she does not like the Catholic church and if you say anything about it she rolls her eyes and she's told me bad things that the current Pope said that he didn't even say. When I looked it up and found out what he said and told her she looked like she didn't believe me or discounted it . She's never told me she's Jehovah Witness but she has the beliefs on birthdays and holidays and the afterlife. Interesting thing she drinks like a lot. I know other that Jehovah's drink too. I thought they were some non-drinking non-smoking extremely Christian people. Found out that's not true
I was a JW for ten-plus years, got baptized in 1969. They preached Armageddon in 1975, didn't happen, the "Organization" apologized and said they never meant to suggest that 1975 was the definitive date. I met people who sold their properties, some quite wealthy, gave the $$ to the organization, big loss. I left the organization in 1981, went into the military, big no-no! Anyhow, the thing is, their doctrines do not concur with bible doctrines and they twist bible teaching to suit their agenda. The 144,000 "anointed remnant" for one, no such thing in the scriptures. The "dual resurrection", as in, the anointed go to heaven and the rest of the sheep stay below, NOT BIBLICAL. Some other glaring discrepancies that make one wonder how the heck they can continue to preach without being called out. This video is a primer, and it should get people in the "truth" to look deeper, as to who founded the religion (Charles Taze Russell, a snake oil salesman and a 33 degree Freemason). No, they do not threaten or stalk you, but if you are separated from the "truth" you WILL be destroyed in armageddon. And, if you have family members in the religion, say goodbye forever (my two sisters and mother). Also, they demoted Christ from his lofty perch and relegated him to being "a god" in the New World Translation (John 1:1). Now, where did this little "god" come from? "Thou shall not have any other gods before me" (Exodus 20:2). Well, meet the little god, Christ! And much much more. This is not a Christian religion, IT IS A CULT, PERIOD.
JW’s give the world of Jesus Christ lip service but do not teach his teachings because he taught love and forgiveness. They twist bible verses to support their vile teachings.
Isn't it just that mostly male leaders protect each other and the power they hold over their group and the ordinary private member , who are kept in a stronghold by the rules and punishments and relational power games... Saying, its about the power over others and having a top position within a certain society...which is also what happens in families and countries.. institutions and so on ,..power struggles and positioning and domination and submission