AmpereTime + Victron = Budget LiFePO4 Battery System
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- Опубликовано: 25 авг 2024
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You do not need to take the battery apart to add the temp sensor. You just slap it on the side of any cheap battery and you're done.
The VE Network is not a Wi-fi network!! Some people below are thinking that you need internet to run this or set it up. Absolutely false. It is the bluetooth network system for victron energy components. Not a wifi network! You can use this network system off-grid and without internet. If it did require internet, no one would buy it.
And swapping out the bms would be the more expensive and horribly difficult. You are better off building your own battery. Watch the tear down video to see how difficult this case is to open. That would be an awful idea lol
And no you do not need the battery smart sense mounted to the cells. Mount it to the outside of the battery case. If you needed to tear the pack apart, I would never make this video. That would be a horrible idea.
And you can use this on any cheap battery. The battery does not matter. You can add this to home built packs or whatever you need. It is up to you!
Will do you know if the Overkill BMS can be added to the VE Network? Or if there is a work around to do that?
My Renogy solar charge controller came with a temperature sensor, but i think it is just there for temp compensation and will not cut off low at low temp. Am I right? It would be so nice if it did low temp cut off :)
Ok so this setup stops the MPPT from charging the battery using LTCO. What about the other charging sources in your system? Ho do you prevent them from trying charge at LTCO? More battery sense devices? What if they are not Victron devices... say, you you have a Magnum Hybrid Inverter. I know it has temp sensor, but I don;t think it can be configured to prevent charging at LTCO like you can with Victron Battery sense.
@@tomali2100 yeah
It only works for temp compensation iirc and high temp sadly
My epever tracer is the same
Living in Northern Utah about 7,000 feet above sea level means cold. The folks in Texas and those southern states east and west got some real cold so must be prepared and Will’s adamant need for this is spot on I think many would agree
On a side very related note, I completed my test yesterday on Maestro Will’s 400 Watt Configuration for beginners and cha-ching, I’ve got all boxes checked ✅, solar panels are charging my batteries. Couldn’t have done it without the Maestro. I’m 66 and learned so much. Thank you Will!
@@jimoray3 Awesome!! :D
I live in Texas. I had to flip the battery switch to AGM battery bank. When it hit -21 degrees...Never thought I would need it. I now have my batteries wrapped in thermal heat tape. To make sure they stay warm...
You want extra protection from vibration and cold.. Put High Density Rubber Matting around the batteries..I found they reduced the cold from ever penetrating the battery box..They do this on Ambulances..Which are used in way worse conditions..
@@WizzRacing Good idea THANKS!
@@WizzRacing , LiFePO4 batteries are supposed to be vibration proof to a certain extent, especially when compared to any other type of battery.
You're videos are always full of useful information. You're about the only "Solar Guru" I watch now. I'm also ordering your book because I'm preparing to install solar at my off grid cabin in the next few weeks. 🌞 ☀️ 🌄
That is what I thought also. !:- )
His book is great. Simple and very thorough about the parts you need. You'll be happy with it.
I just bought a shuttle to convert (I haven't even picked it up yet) and I was starting to feel a little defeated regarding my ability to add solar. But after your beginner video and other videos, I feel confident I can do it myself. My kids always said I was a nomad in another life. I'm getting prepared to be a nomad in this one! Thank you for teaching old dogs new tricks!
I'm "Currently" running ( 3 ) Amperetime 100Ah Batteries with 3 Victron 100-30 Solar Charge Controllers ( into 2 different Battey Banks ) ( one LiPo4 /300ah , and 1 200Ah AGM ) . I have the Victron Smart Battery Sense on the LiPo4 Battery Bank. I run 1200 watts of Solar that I can move between the Controllers to charge the different Banks.
just wanted to give a quick thank you, you really do give me the boost in confidence of doing my own solar setups and even going for building batteries as well, wanted to extend gratitude!
Great test. Thanks for the vid. I love your reaction "It actually works!" Don't you love it when things just work like they're designed and advertised as?! Well done.
Thanks for all the knowledge. I learned a bunch from you and Hobotech are my favorite solar channels. Prepping in Florida for the next Hurricane that takes my power out for a week or more again.
Finally. This is how mine is set up and I've tested it. Just haven't seen anyone confirm it. Awesome!
Thanks for the video, I bought 2 of these and I was worried about the quality and I see that the purchase is not bad, as for the low temperature I do not worry since I live in Puerto Rico and the temperature will never drop so much.
The manual for the EPEVER Triron series indicates that with a Li battery and their (optional) temp sensor you can set a Low Temp
Protection Threshold (LTPT) (default is 0degC) which stops charging. I think that machine is quite a bit less spendy than the Victron, yes? Like your vids!
Hi Tom, you are probably correct. You would need to raise the temp to 5C. 0C may still create expensive problems. Where I live they are ca., the same price. But I’ve gone Victron. Yes expensive but robust and compact. The network allows one sensor for all charging systems I.e. Dc to DC charger. I like the single app for all the different units I have. Either way main thing is don’t charge bellow 5C. I’ve lost Lion batteries to the cold!
Did it 1 year ago with my 18650 230Ah battery. Didnt work last year but with new updates, works now🙏🏻🙏🏻..Victron devices are great and will work preciselly for a long time.
Inside my insulated solar shed, I'm using one of these Victron battery sense modules in conjunction with a ceramic heater sitting on the floor and set to turn on/off at 41 degrees +/- 2 degrees. The battery sense shows 43 degrees steady. Nice little device, especially when you have it networked with your charge controller.
Thanks Will. I have 2 Victron charge controllers in my enclosed trailer RV. They work exactly as you found. I have 2 because l upgraded my panels adding another used 330W panel that l got for $75. It was removed from Philadelphia's Eagkes football stadiums system. I used 4 Pb acid golf cart batteries as l couldn't afford Li ion. You are a natural nearly brilliant young guy. I've always enjoyed listening to your technical analysis and lessons. Impressive young Sparks!! 😉😎
Somehow you always answer questions I never knew I had.
just a tip, you can also do this the "Smartshunt" and the sold separate thermocouple.
could you explain in detail?
Yes. Please explain in a bit more detail. Super interested
A year old video but I'm just now catching up! Thank you so much. Very affordable battery sense.
Man you CRUSHED that wire connector🤘🏼
I did exactly this with the Amperetime 200 ah battery. I picked it up on Amazon for $799. Added a Victron temp sensor to the victron charge controller I already had for old lead acid, and wired in a cheap but well reviewed 2000w sine wave inverter that cost $160 (compared to 200 for a 1200w version...?). Now I’m up and running on 2400 wh system in my camper and I’m selling my brand new Bluetti AC200. I liked it and mine worked fine, but I couldn’t find a good place for a semi permanent install in my small camper. Oh, and when I wrote Amperetime to thank them for the greet communication during shipping, they sent out a 10 amp Lithim charger for free. My sense is that they really want to establish themselves in this space. I hope so.... the battery comes with a 5 year warranty that I hope to never use!
And I love that o get to expand the functionality of my victron 100/50 charger with a networked low temp cutoff.
Thanks for the great work and independence, Will!
This new batteries is a game changer for all my project.
Will Thanks for supplying me with my tech-tip fix! Tom (Hobotech) has been MIA. Keep up the good work!
Everyone needs a vacation/break from work, even RUclipsrs! Will himself has been MIA at times. Contrary to popular belief, it's actually both healthy and normal for RUclipsrs to have their own lives, they don't just exist for our entertainment. 😉
@@NorthernKitty You're right, of course, I just have a youtube tech-tip addiction. 😆
@@captaincurt3180 No worries, I do, too!! Hehe. 😋 I definitely understand the feeling of, "awww, no video today?" from my favorite channels.
I use this to control the Victron IP22 Charger the Bluetooth is the best I've ever seen
Hey Will, can you do another video on the electrodacus SBM0 giving some more detail on the low voltage disconnect and how you wire it to the switch on a couple of example inverters?
First off Thank You for school us on low temp charging protection. I have a chevy bolt EUV and need to add a 840 watt 24v cabin heater to get enough range for my 140 mile one way commute to work in Ohio. I purchased 2 ,,24 volt ampere time 100ah batteries and didn't have a clue about low temperature charging protection. You saved me thousands of $$$!!! Can an ampere time operate (run a heater) in below freezing conditions?
Hab ich auch, Victron lässt sich schon sehr geil kombinieren !!!
Here in the St. Lucia in the Caribbean the lowest temperature is approx. 19 C. so low temp cut-off is not an issue for me.
We need this content. Thanks Will!
thank you. start camping so I can thank you for the valuable information that you have provided. I really tried to go cheap on controllers, Victron is the best and there currently is no better alternative for 12-48 systems . keep up the videos.
I suppose this will only work for regulating Solar input at low temperatures. If you also need DC to DC charging or AC to DC power charging, you’ll still run into the issues of low temperatures causing problems for your batteries.
not if you have a victron inverter/charger.
In response to complaints on Amazon about the absence of low temp charge cutoff the company claims that initially, they had that feature and people complained so they changed it to charge at a low rate instead of completely cutting the charge off. They claim that this will not damage the battery. Thoughts?
Some BMS kill the power completely with low temp charging. Thus you are not only not charging - but all you power goes out. Wills solution is better - since it only kills charging and not the power.
I believe his earlier tests did not show that it reduced.. just kept on charging full rate
I recently purchased the 12v 100ah Ampere Time battery on Amazon for around $550 with free shipping. Took around two weeks for it to arrive. Pretty impressed so far, beefy 6mm terminal screws, packaging was good, and even included a couple nice brochures on their China based company. Customer service is email only unless you want to call China. This battery also does not have a low temp charging cutoff programmed into the BMS and when I asked customer service why, they said it is because if they program their current BMS for low temp charging cutoff it also stops the battery from discharging below that same set temperature and they felt their customers would not like that so they left it not programmed. So it’s a BMS limitation. Wonder how many BMS’s they buy at one time? I installed a temp monitor with a programmable temp switch($30 on Amazon) an hooked it up in series to the Renogy 20amp dc/dc charger ignition input so the charger shuts down below 5c but I can still discharge down to -20c. Here is the link for the temp sensor.
bayite DC 12V Fahrenheit Digital Temperature Controller 10A 1 Relay with Sensor
Well, its not a link but copy and paste into the search box will work.
Would you be so kind as to post a link to the temp monitor and programmable switch?
@@leftofone
bayite DC 12V Fahrenheit Digital Temperature Controller 10A 1 Relay with Sensor
Well, its not a link but copy and paste into the search box will work.
I've been thinking about using a solar charge controller for just that purpose. I have a similar solar trailer set up for my off-road wheelchairs... Let it charge up during the day then at night I will utilize DC to DC wheelchair charging from trailer 5 kW battery
It's not very often I hear "Budget" and "Victron" in the same sentence! I love my little 75/15 it does everything I need I also wired up a 48v power brick power supply off amazon that I plug into the solar input of the victron so no need to mess with expensive chargers etc - the victron charges with solar if you plug pannels in or mains voltage if you plug the power brick in.
Can you post a link to the 48V Power Supply you got off Amazon? Thank you!
hi Will and everyone, I manage to set up my victron MPPT with the battery sense to protect low temp charging, but was wondering how I could do the same using the Victron Orion dc/dc smart charger. Why doesn’t the dc/dc charger also take input from the battery sense to cutoff low temp charging? I can’t find any settings for it like the MPPT charge controller.
2:35. KILLING IT.
Depending on the size/capacity of your solar cells there is a much cheaper way to do this. You can use a W1209 Temp control switch. it costs about $5 and is really simple to install. There are only 4 wires plus the temp sensor. the 4 wires are power (12 V) and relay. The relay is connected between the positive side of the solar panel and the solar controller & 12V to your battery. The relay can handle 10amps but i would not go higher than 8amp. if your solar panel(s) can produce more than 8 amps then use the boards relay to control a higher current relay. A 30amp relay is less than $2.
This was the route I went, cheap 12v temp sensor switch and relay where there is a budget and a will, there is always a way.
Would love a HSQ charge controller review it has low temp cutoff/protection
You should do a review on Chins lifepo4 batteries
I keep learning from you and it is most appreciated young man.
Just make sure that he's not your ONLY source of information!
@@vespagts7078 There are other good sources That I watch. At least will is honest and transparent.
Excellent display of information. Thanks for sharing!
Is this only for when charging via solar panels? What about when you’re connected to shore power and the charge converter charges your batteries?
EPEVER AN series charge controllers added low temp cutoff/protection & factory settings for lifepo4 make a video on it 🙏
Good morning Will
Morning haha
Awesome video and something i hadnt thought of! Thanks Will
Good information.... wouldn't keep my batteries in the cold, however cooling them is a must
Can this Victron battery sense also be used to protect low tempo charging when charging RV batteries with the converter? Thanks
Always enjoy these videos!
Shouldn't a decent bms have two temperature sensors one for the exterior of the battery pack and one near the core to ensure that the battery is within its operating temperature range after being subjected to a prolonged period of hot or cold? The problem I've noticed is most of these batteries only have a sensor near the outside of the pack.
Since the pack is not changing its structure, one thermo sensor would probably be enough! Look up some info on thermal analysis heat transfer. That stuff always blows me away.
This is perfect for my boat. Thanks for the research will.
I live Texas . At what cold temperature are you concerned about for the cold sensor to shut off the charging
I have been enjoyong your channel for a long time.
Your explanations and tear down of products is so educational and informative.
Thank you for your dedication to the industry!!😏
Why didn't you use an Overkill Solar 12/24/48V BMS since you like them so much? What do I miss?
Pretty much did the same thing with a Renogy DCC50S DC-DC charger. I didn't know about the 5°C. It comes preset at 0°C, time to go change that if I can.
excellent video and as always - no animals were harmed in its making
When the hat is turned around you know good stuff is coming.
Small addition for enthusiasts, Smart Battery Sense is not necessary for installations that already have a BMV-712 (battery monitor) with a temperature sensor accessory. •
Have you ever considered using a mirror or mylar to increase the output of your solar PV panels? I know it can work well for heating but I doubt you have a need for that. Would love to see a future video on that. DANGER unintentional concentration of solar energy can sometimes start a fire. But as long as its not concentrated there could be a nice increase in energy at little cost
...another option - Renogy DCC50S 12V 50A DC-DC On-Board Battery Charger with MPPT. I'm doing this with the Ampere Time 300ah. This Renogy DCC50S has every option you could possibly want (seriously the Renogy is full featured and simply needs their cheap add-on Bluetooth module).
Will you ever review the Ego Nexus with the new solar charge setup. Have seen many reviews of the unit but would really like to see you review it. Just to watch a review I can totally trust.
Thanks for the video Will.
Love your stuff. Very good explanations and teaching. I feel like the world is going to be ok with smart young people like you. I have a question though: For a DYI 12v 280ah battery for the marine environment, specifically a 35' sailboat, which cells would you recommend given the salty and high vibration environment? Thanks for working so hard on your show!
Victron dropped the price on there Solar charge controllers 30% so this makes even more sense now.
What was the price for this battery? I don't know how many times you said how low the price was for this particular battery, but you never mentioned the price.
Could you just replace the BMS with one from Overkill Solar?
I would love to see you build a vertical axis wind turbine
Thanks, Will!! Great video.
So I have the Ampere Time 12V 200Ah Plus Lithium LiFePO4 Battery, Built-in 200A BMS, 4000+ Deep Cycles, Max 2560W Power Output, FCC&UL Certificates, 10-Year Lifetime, Perfect for RV, Solar, Marine, Off-Grid, etc. .Im trying to figure my setting for the Victron dc to dc charger with the bluetooth app
Hi Will! Thanks for all your videos. I would like to see a video on the test equipment you use and what you like the best. I.e. dc power supply, watt hour meter, etc. Thanks!
look back into his library of prior videos - its there
FYI - The Victron Smart Battery Sense units fail below -3.3°C (26°F). I've tested several of these and they don't read temps below -3.3°C. And some of them got completely destroyed and stopped working all together even after they warmed back up I wasn't able to connect to them via Bluetooth afterwards. Hopefully they fix this problem soon.
on the amazon sell page, a marketing pic states -20C operating temperature - but NOT stating do NOT charge below zero - that is a bad piece of information missing
If this were to be in an RV and have solar and shore power option, with shore power you wouldn’t be going through the solar controller so you’d need a victron charger (configured to 5deg) that would also sync with the battery temp monitor? As the solar controller is the only unit that knows about the low temp cutoff and it’s only responsible for charge from solar. Or am I missing something? Thanks
Im assumming if you have more than one Amperetime batterry, that you only need the one Victron Battery Sense
Love you're video's but I have a question. I hear you take a lite about low temp disconnect in your video's but is it really necessary in a home situation where the temperature never goes below 14C? Even when it freezes big-time the temperature in my garage never goes below 14C. Thanks for the great videos.
Oh if you can keep batteries warm, you're good to go. Anything above freezing and you won't need low temp charging protection
Okay, but what happens if your house heating goes out for some reason, then it might be nice to have a low low temperature disconnect..
@@habana7638 I have no heating in my garage. It's well insulated. Even last winter when the temperature dove below 20C for a week the minimum temperature recorded was 12C. So not really a problem I think
If I were taking it apart, I'd just replace the BMS with one that has proper temp controls. But I guess the idea is most people don't want to take apart their batteries :)
Hey good point! Haha
Might as well make a battery at that point haha
And that case is very difficult to open. And good bms cost quite a bit. Dang that would be the worst way to do it actually 😂😂
But if you do all that, why not just buy cells and a BMS? What’s the advantage of getting a battery and disassembling it and replacing parts???
@@ranig2848 because it takes 2-3 months to get cells. Did you not watch the video?? 😂 And yes please build it yourself! Have you not seen my other build videos?
On the amazon product site it says these batteries can operate to as low as -20C. I assume that means draw of power but not the charging temp?
Do the EPEVER BN series MPPT Chargers that you recommend offer cold temp shutoff? I may have to return the one I just ordered on Amazon for a Victron.
I was going to get the sole but I have victory charge controllers so I may go this route as I can 600ah for about the same price as as to a 412 ah on my 24 volt system
It was sok not sole
Thanks. Love. Your. Work
Great work thanks for all your great research and info! Is 5c the best stopping point for this type of scenario in your opinion?
I'm more interested you using a desktop power supply to masquerade as solar feed. I spent good money on DC2DC charger with solar input and now wondering if I buy an AC charger or just a power supply and have the existing DC2DC pull double duty.
What about when using a DC to DC charger?
What am I missing here? Isn't this what the temp sensor on any solar controller is for?
Have you looked at Gyll by Signature solar?
Their packs are 300$/kWh and based in texas.
CHECK OUT THE SEMTIVE NEMOI 24 VOLT MADE IN TEXAS
On my E-bike Victron energy Smart battery sense 12v/24/48 temperature sense long Range 10m £33.99 on amazon
definitely need to get your hands on the 200ah version of the Ampere Time battery as it's $799.99 on amazon... is it hold up to the same standards as the 100ah one you've been testing?
With how often you've gone over the risk of charging at low temperatures it would be helpful to see some options for heating batteries up so they can be charged when it's cold out. After living in a van lots during the winter the thought of not being able to get myself out of situation where my batteries accidentally got too cold is scary. A terrible cascade of events happens fast in winter conditions where then I can't turn my heater on, and then my water system freezes and bursts (ask me how I know 😉). I could stop at an RV park to get power if I'm in a pickle but if I can't charge my batteries I'm still screwed. Are there any options for electric heat pads or the like to wrap batteries in so they could heat themselves up enough to accept a charge?
an electric heating pad under the house batteries that can be switched to run from your RV starting battery would make sense, if there were enough charge in the house batteries you use them to warm themselves, if not you start the RV engine and heat the batteries enough to start charging them and then once they are happy switch back and let them charge them selves.
On my boat i just have the batteries in the engine compartment which gets warm enough just from running the engine so you could maybe run a heater duct to your battery compartment to get the batteries warm enough to charge, again then let them warm themselves once charged.
A water loop from a water heater or your RVs cooling system could also be used, i think a lot is going to depend on what is easiest for you, Will isn't going to be able to cover every situation, warming your battery compartment can be done however is convenient.
@@popuptoaster Where my batteries live is pretty far away from my heater and it'd be really hard to pipe heat through there even if it was closer. I get away with it now because I have AGM batteries. Things are really tight in my van so relocating the batteries isn't an option either.
I'm thinking most of situations where I still have power in the batteries. From what Will has made me aware of, lithium can still deliver power when they are cold but can't be charged. That makes me think that I could easily end up in a situation where I still have power in my house batteries but can't replenish it and would be on a runaway train toward that cascade of failure I described above. I think I really need a separate heating solution just for the batteries.
Simple 12v lap blanket would certainly do the job but an automated solution would be better.
must try srne mppt scc
Oh wow my trailer came with a Victron charge controller. This opens up a lot of cheaper battery options.
Why would they not want to add it?. Do they want to keep replacing battery under warranty?
How do you stop the Victron charge controller from automatically restarting its charging profile anytime the Lithiums drop in voltage. Would be nice to stop hammering the LFP when its already charged...
Not battery related, but can you do a video showing how running 2, 24V mpp inverters supply power? does each supply from battery bank limited to output of each unit? So how to run parallel inverters outputs is my question, say 2 appliances run 1000 watt each? I hope my question makes sense.
You need to do a blue Discovery lithium ion battery they have just hit the market and I would really be interested if you tore one apart
Can you use this for multiple battery packs? Possibly shut down an array of 48v batteries ?
Maybe I missed it, how many batteries can you put in series?
This is the answer to my prayers. Much appreciated Will!
Can the Smart Battery Sense talk to the Battery protect? That would be just perfect.
Looks to be possible in theory. I would want to disconnect the charging circuits from the battery at low temp, but leave the consumers connected. Not sure if the Battery Protect works in that direction.
@@Nerd3927 I think if it's connected to a Victron BMS it will work. But ya, not too many people will be discharging power from the batteries below -20C. So not really much of a concern for 99.9% of people out there.
I am a bit worried it charges with full current just above the cutoff temperature. Should charging not be eased in as the temperature goes into the optimal range?
It will make the circuits more complex, but the batteries should last longer.
I forgot, if the batteries cannot take the current, shift the current into heating elements instead.
Awesome video! Would I still only need one battery sense in a 2x Li paralleled battery bank?
So does the smart sense actually give an accurate voltage reading on LifePo4 batteries? I'm being told the voltage curve is too flat?
Assuming this only works for solar panels and not alternator charging? And also would you need one for each battery?