*12V Performance Package (affiliate links):* Epoch 12V 460Ah (affiliate link): www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d Victron 12V Inverters: www.currentconnected.com/product-category/inv/12-volt-inverters/?ref=wp Victron Solar Charge Controllers: www.currentconnected.com/product-category/solar/charge-controllers/?ref=wp *12V Budget Package:* Litime 460Ah: www.litime.com/products/litime-12v-460ah-lifepo4-lithium-battery-250a-bms-5888wh-energy?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns Giandel Inverter: www.mobile-solarpower.com/inverters.html Budget Solar Charge Controller: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-charge-controllers.html Mobile 48V System for Beginners: www.mobile-solarpower.com/mobile-48v-system.html 0:00 Intro 1:29 Best Performance 12V System 4:07 Best Budget 12V System 8:49 Why you should switch to 48V *Does off-grid solar confuse you?* Check out my DIY friendly website for solar system packages and product recommendations, and so much more! www.mobile-solarpower.com *Join our DIY solar community* #1 largest solar forum on the internet for beginners and professionals alike: www.diysolarforum.com *Check out my Book* Best-selling and beginner-friendly guide to 12V off-grid solar! amzn.to/2Aj4dX4 If DIY is not for you, but you love solar and need an offgrid system, check out Tesla Energy! They will price out a system and get your house offgrid: ts.la/william57509 *My DIY Solar Equipment Recommendations (Constantly updated! Check here first):* 12V/48V Lithium Solar Batteries: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-batteries.html Complete Solar System Component Directory: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solarcomponents.html Complete 48V System Blueprint: www.mobile-solarpower.com/48v-complete-system-blueprint.html Plug-N-Play System Recommendations: www.mobile-solarpower.com/full-size-systems.html Complete "Add to Cart" 48V System Kits: www.mobile-solarpower.com/complete-48v-solar-kits.html DIY Friendly Air Conditioner/ Heat Pumps: www.mobile-solarpower.com/solar-friendly-air-conditioners.html *My Favorite Online Stores for DIY Solar Products:* *Signature Solar* Offgrid One-Stop-Shop. Best Value 48V LiFePO4, Victron and Offgrid Specific Heat Pumps: www.signaturesolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek *Current Connected* SOK, Victron, Mr.Cool Heatpumps and High Quality Components. Fantastic customer support: currentconnected.com/?ref=wp *Litime* My favorite 12V budget battery!: www.litime.com/?ref=XBIA62RFcalHns *Epoch Batteries* My favorite high-quality 12V battery: www.epochbatteries.com/products/12v-460ah-lifepo4-battery-ip67-heated-bluetooth-victron-comms?rfsn=7352625.50494d *Renogy* A classic 12V solar store that has been around for ages! DC to DC Chargers and more! renogy.sjv.io/n1VjXx *Rich Solar* Renogy's biggest competitor! Similar products, but at a better price: richsolar.com/?ref=h-cvbzfahsek *Battery Hookup* Cheap cell deals bit.ly/2mIxSqt 5% off code: diysolar *Contact Information:* I am NOT available for personal solar system consult! If you wish to contact me, this is my direct email: williamprowsediysolar@gmail.com Join the forum at diysolarforum.com/ if you wish to hang out with myself and others and talk about solar *FTC Disclosure Statement and Disclaimers:* Every video includes some form of paid promotion or sponsorship. Some links on this youtube channel may be affiliate links. We may get paid if you buy something or take an action after clicking one of these. My videos are for educational purposes only. Information is subject to change/update at any time. Electricity is DANGEROUS and can kill. Be smart and use common sense :) DIY Solar Power with Will Prowse is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, An affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com
We have a 12 vote system on our RV because we started in 2018. We bought your book and used it as a guideline for how to do our project. I imagine there are many people who followed your book and are stuck with a 12 volt system. Other than Battle Born and Lion there simply weren't any other good batteries in 2018 and Victron was the only inverter at the time that was highly recommended. My 10 year 100 amp Battle Borns (4)have a long way to go. However if I were building one today I think the forty eight volt would absolutely be the way to go. The tech and competition has changed a lot in the last 6 years. Thanks for your programs. I have been following you since 2017. Best out there.
The biggest thing I ran into is people don't understand the amp hours they get confused thinking of 12 volt 200 amp hour is better than a 48 volt 100 amp hour cuz they don't know how to convert it to watt hours this is the biggest problem I've run into when trying to get people to convert their RV over
Though it should be noted that the MPPT 100/30 only supports 12/24V. And even though this is a 12V system, there is no reason not to buy a Victron that can do 12/24/36/48V. That make upgrading later on cheaper. So I recommend the Victron SmartSolar 100/20 or the 150/35. The 100/20 is $85. It is a really good value, though at only 20A it is really designed more for 24V and 48V system. Still, for a starter 12V system a 100/20 supports 256W of solar (12.8V x 20A = 256W). And always make sure it is a "SmartSolar" (which has built-in bluetooth), and not the "BlueSolar" (no built-in bluetooth).
Please never sellout like other RUclipsrs... I have no intention on building an off grid system (i have an ongrid system) but i still watch you clips for the interesting, in depth, information. Thank you!
Will, don’t get stuck on the idea that everyone needs 120 power in an RV or mobile application, the main systems almost all require 12v even if they will run on 120v as well. Slides, furnace, lights, jacks, hot water heater…Here in the summer at 90-103 deg outside, we’re a 43ft rv running 3 rv ACs, no one is running full off grid in an RV, just too inefficient to do so at our temps and humidity levels. Now in the winter a simple 12v system 2-3 lithium batteries (no inverter) 2-3 100w panels and your good to go, paired with propane for heat. So 12v systems still have their place depending on what you need for power. So keep going with the great 12v battery tear downs and videos, the simple system guys like myself really appreciate it.
That's even more of an issue if you are taking your vehicle/camper outside of North America. It can be near impossible to find a quality 12v pure sine inverter or charger in Guatemala or Peru. Finding the same in 48v... possibly a marine dealer in a large city may have Victron, if you are lucky. Likely you would have ask a friend to courier a replacement 48v item from the US (Customs duties?), else wait a few weeks for shipping. Amazon is not everywhere. I like the idea of 48v systems for all the efficiency reasons Will mentioned, but your point about general availability will likely keep me at 12 volts, at least for my international travel vehicle.
@@GregNTech 48V to 12V stepdown converters are cheap and readily available as they're used in golf carts. If you're worried about reliability carry a spare or two, they're only $20-30 depending on the wattage.
Will Prowse, youve probably never heard of Keysight Technologies, but here at HQ all the technicians swear by your videos. This means a lot coming from a building full of engineers. Please keep up the great uploads. You got me into solar last month and i just wanted to say you are making a difference on all levels!
You talked for 1:30 griping about people not using 48v and still using 12v. My opinion is that there are multiple reasons: 1. In an emergency they can use their 12v inverter off their car which is 12v. 2. Most people are unaware of the benefits of 48v systems. 3. They already have multiple DIFFERENT 12v batteries and 12v panels.
48v makes absolutely no sense to me. This is the first I've ever heard of a "boost converter". So, that's one more thing to investigate. Getting ready to build a 12v setup, as I don't want a large, expensive, clunky unit and I certainly don't want 3 (or even 2) 400 watt solar panels that the 48v monstrosities seem to use.
@@louc6635 cool story bro. Show me in my comments where I said "I don't know why anyone would"? I stated all the reasons 12v made sense for the average person.
While I agree that 48v is much better, 12v can make sense but mostly for legacy reasons. My boat for instance already has all the wiring for 12v, as well as multiple 12v pumps, tv, fridge, lighting, chargers, engine etc. 48v accessories are far less common, and often not available, and everything would be very expensive to change. You can step down of course, but it's just extra expense. It's the same reason vehicle manufactures have stuck with 12v for so long. The 12v ecosystem already exists for all the components , the 48v one doesn't.
I have a small 12v system, 100ah Power Queen LiFePo4 battery, 60amp LiTime charge controller and two 450 watt panels. When i upgrade eventually, i will go right up to 48v. I also build a few small 12v systems that i give away to less fortunate friends and acquaintances. Thanks for the video Will, you are the man. Greetings from Jamaica. Sept 19 2024 Update: I now have five 12v 100ah Power Queen LiFePo4 batteries in parallel still in a 12v config. and four 450 watt panels. Everything in running well, some connections do get slightly warm but not how. I'm still gonna upgrade to either 24 or 48v soon.
Keep in mind that smaller and older sailboats have 12V systems. If i should go for a 24 or 48V system i need DC-DC converters down to 12 for my instruments and often VHF. And to replace, fridges, depthsounder, speed-sensor, wind-sensor, autopilot, MFDs, GPS, VHF, lights etc to something that handles a higher voltage brings with it ALOT of money (guessing somewhere around 10-15k USD). And allthou i can run it with a DC-DC converter i will loose quite alot energy to heat, with limited space for solar, i do not have energy to spare. And the inverter for a small sailboat does not hardly get used either, so the focus for us is more often than not on the 12V-system. :) Thanks for the content!
I am in the exact same "boat". When I saw this video I thought the same thing as you. 12v is the way to go on a sailboat. I probably have 20k worth of 12v equipment on my boat and very little 120v. I seldom turn on my inverter.
My boat run on 12 volt Totaal 3kwh battery (2x150Ah lipo4) With totaal of 550watt solar power . Everything works on board on the solar power with easy. Fridge only use 2.5 amps and the freezer use about 5 amps . The solar power can do about 30/35 amps . Means by a good light of 5 hours i have pump the battery to 100/150ah So really its always full or i have bad days . Still it cost about 5 days for the battery are empty by normal use.
@@swimmer5612 v battery in parallel. Than the load will be over 2 battery so over 2 bms My 12v 150a lifepo4 do 150a continu on the bms. 2 samen battery will do 300a . A custom beult battery you can set a bms you like.
I went 12v as I have a 12v fridge, a 12v tv, all lights and fans in my van are 12v, a 12v radio. I do have 240v microwave but use it for very short time. An off grid home would be a no brainer for 48v though. Love your videos, keep them coming
I can answer some of your 12v questions. I have a large motor yacht that runs on 12v. Changing all the 12v panels and fixtures would be very cost prohibitive. My option would be build a 48v system and step it down to 12v at the panel. Next, changing to a 48v alternator is really expensive. A 48v balmar can run over 3k. To put that in prospective, a renogy dc to dc is a couple hundred. And, its not just changing the alternator. Your engine ecu is probably 12v. Your starter is going to be 12v or 24v. Basically what i am say its not as easy to switch to 48v as you make it sound. If you are building a new system from scratch, go for it, 48v is a great way to go. If you already have a large 12v system on you boat or rv, its not that simple. I have been looking into a 48v system for my motoryacht. The best i have come up with is a step down converter in front of the 12v panels, and a second alternator in 48v to charge the house bank. That would leave the 12v alternator to charge the start banks of my marine diesels.
You hit the nail on the head here. Any decent 48v Alternator is $4,000 +/- installed. Will seems to obsess over the cable gauge - which may cost an extra couple hundred dollars, when he says nothing about the $4k + expense of just the 48v alternator - and all the other 48v to 12v stepping needed for standard equipment. Sorry Will, 48v for most mobile applications outside of high end motor yachts or rail - only buys you efficiency but at significantly more cost.
Good points! I live in a travel trailer with lots of 12VDC stuff, so I have a split system with both 12VDC and 48VDC. For me, I like the redundancy -- if one system fails, the other is ready to rock. Plus, maintaining 12VDC provides a battery for the emergency disconnect system on the trailer brakes.
You don't want to hang the ham rig off the home battery anyway, it is usually too noisy electrically (EMF/EMI). So for that case, and also for marine radios (less power but super-critical in case of emergency), you use a 12V down-buffer battery that is charged from the home battery. It doesn't have to be a big battery, just big enough to handle the transmit load.
I run my shack fully off grid Yaesu ft897D.. It did take a lot of work with ferrite sleeves and ft240/31 cores to get the noise to sn acceptable level Another thing was multiple earth's caused a lot of issues But now I can hear US Air Traffic Control on 17.946mhz at night in my kenwood R1000 Something impossible before the noise work Cheers guys
@@AlexanderBelikov I bought an all-in-one before I knew better. And it is an EcoFlow: the ac inverter burned out the first week! The AC charger stopped the 1st month. The top of their manual essentially says: Their manual blames the user. Other buyers save they have no customer service. Every idiot like me has to learn the hard way. Ugh.
@@AlexanderBelikov I bought an inverter and solar panels. I charged it March 2023 and it has not lost any charge, February 2024. It’s still at 80% as I only used it to charge my phone.
Hi Will, I have an answer and a reason for using a 12 volt system. When I camp (like at Burning Man), I use a lot of 12 power. I have a CPAP, laptop computer, multiple 12 V LED light strings, a 50 watt VHF/UHF Amateur radio, a 12 V refrigerator, a 12 V USB bank for charging head lamps and bike lights. All of this stuff runs on 12 volts. Why would I convert to 120 VAC and then have to use multiple 120 volt A/C to 12 volt DC convertors? Now I completely agree that for stationary systems 48 volts is the answer, 48 volts is much more efficient and lower losses. But when most of your stuff is 12 volts it isn't efficient to convert up and then back down again. I do also have a 2,000 watt inverter for charging a couple of tool chargers that only work on 120 volt A/C. So I believe that this is a case, at least my case for building a 12 volt system.
@@hmmm2564come again with the why cuz I'm taking notes I'm trying to build my first system and want to do a 48 volt instead of messing with a 12-volt system for my minivan camper build if you don't mind please. Otherwise I guess I have to get multiple 120 volt AC to 12 volt DC connectors as far as this person stated
Thank you Will! Two extra expenses that were not considered in this video while using 48v battery bank in an RV: 1. 48v-to-12v buck converter for all the 12v loads (fans, lights, fridge, pumps, furnace, etc.) 2. A booster for jump starting the engine battery when needed (I'm guessing most buck converters can't start an engine). ... These plus the 48v alternator I would think could match or exceed the expense of thicker cables for a 12V system, maybe I'm wrong. But I agree, the 48v systems seem better quality.
also shore power battery charger if you want to be able to charge the battery's up when your plugged in! even more cost! also there is more losses with every part you need to add to the system
I have a large 12V system for lighting, computers, an RV heater with propane, and the kitchen of a camper that I brought in just for cooking. Of course we're going to disagree on some things and, if you look back at when you were just getting started, you'll see why. The first thing you'll want to power is a refrigerator and a 12V LED if you can't afford to do anything else. For that, you'll probably want the 2000 watt version of the inverter that Will recommends and a couple group 29 or larger Lead Acid batteries. This will get you by and keep your mayonnaise, eggs, milk and jelly from going bad while you're saving up for your 48-volt lithium powered system and a lot more solar than it takes to run a fridge. I had nothing but my truck, a job, and the basics that it took to dress for work and be clean. I found a property with a concrete structure under a good shade tree. I put a jar of preserves, a loaf of bread and some peanut butter in there along with a mattress. After I got paid, I got my first 40-amp MPPT charge controller, 2 group-29 batteries, a couple 100-watt solar panels and some RV dome lights. I ran speaker wire from the panels to the inverter and cut up some jumper cables for my battery wires. My next check got me an inverter and fridge. We all have to start somewhere. It didn't take long to learn that my batteries weren't going to last long with such a small battery bank unless I charged them up with my truck so I expanded. Now I have enough power on tap to run my home and the ones on each side of me. It was Will's videos that inspired me and gave me the confidence to do it all for myself. I did end up buying a ton of lithium cells, a midpoint transformer and off-grid inverters. By the time I finally got these components, I had been able to get a second vehicle, two portable buildings, a strong DIY carport to collect water and solar power and even bought enough extra panels for my ex in case she decided to try to help herself (spoiler alert: They're still in her shed). Do save up for bigger and better equipment but don't suffer along the way unless you're accustomed to it. I was a trucker for 19 years so I knew what I needed to get by and what foods can be used even when you ignore the refrigerate after opening print. Being poor and smart has helped me to become well off and wise. I could have made a series of videos, parallel to Will's, on how to crawl up from poverty to upper middle class in three years while earning a lower middle class income. Of course, It would have been faster if I had the RUclips income along with my standard earnings but I'm not very socially adept and I never wanted a large home and fancy cars. There's not a single person out there who couldn't benefit from some solar power if for nothing but food preservation and lighting in a grid down situation. That's not to say that you should just store the power. Use it full time and know that, if you lose your satellite television, you still have frozen meats and vegetables and no worries that they will go bad if it takes days for the municipality to get off their rumps and fix things.
I have a sailboat, with 12V everything i.e. fridge, lights, water pump, bilge pump, navigation equipment, autopilot, etc. If I went with a 48V system, how do I step down the voltage to run my stuff? I don't have an inverter - the boat runs on DC. I don't understand how a 48V system is an advantage?
Hats off to you for paying homage to the simpler folks not living in mansions driving fancy cars that love their 12v systems, good to see you still care.
I went with a middle ground 24v system 2 years ago in my van as I already had a 24v 2000w inverter, plus the iceco frig I bought can run off 24v. And it’s been working well…I have 2 Victron 75/15 solar charge controllers one for 600w roof panels and 350w ground panels, 16KW of lifepo4 prismatic cells and it’s all worked well.
@bluejeanvanlife8627 I know this is an old post so you may not get this but I figured I'd try. I'm currently in the process of building a skoolie and just finished with the demo. I still haven't decided on a solar setup. If you were building your van today would you still go with 24v? Or 12v? Maybe even 48v? Assuming you know everything you know today and you where starting from scratch with no parts. I'm struggling because those 48v systems look awful nice and are priced pretty good but it looks like most of my systems, lights..etc will run on 12v. I haven't seen very many 48v options.
@@BBN04111 I would still go with 24v because my frig is 24v, lights are 24v, and I could use smaller gauge cabling as the current is halved over a 12v system. I have a 24/12v converter for all 12v systems. I also already had a BigBATTERY 24v battery I just paralleled with the 16 prismatic cells I had split into two 24v batteries.
I do understand what you are saying about 24V or 48V systems. I built my system listening to you about 4 years ago and now I have all these 12V components, inverters, CC and batteries. It's just hard when money is tight to start all over and scrap the 12V products. I wish there is a way to still use the 12V products. Well don't stop keeping us informed.
yea, thats usually where the problem starts when people start out with 12v systems when everyone will tell them 48v should be the starting point but no one ever finds a justification until they need it and when that time comes, they have already acquired too many 12v components.
I'm in the same boat. I followed Will's All in one design worked great until the controller died. Now, I can't afford to scrap batteries and start all over from scratch. Plus I'll need a boost as well for my 2 panels.
I just rebuilt my system went from 24v to 48v and ya the wire size is a big difference…love how everything is running using a powmr 5kw and it’s running great so far
I get it. It makes sense. But: All of the RV and all of the motor parts run at 12V. So we need to buck convert 48V to 12V to run the fridge, lights and everything else DC in the RV. Same with the alternator. Do I want an 48V alternator? I have no idea how to charge the trucks starter battery with this. Another buck converter? So - no. The only significant 12V load I have is a 2KW inverter that has no problems running the microwave or coffee maker. Maybe the next RV.
So whether you go 12v or 48v really depends on what your primary consumption is. Unless you're doing electric propulsion, there are a lot of good reasons to go 12v in the marine environment. This is largely because your critical consumers are also 12v. Your VHF, your instrumentation (GPS, speed sensor, depth sounder, wind sensor, etc...) , your engine start, refrigeration, autopilot, lighting (including safety critical things like navigational lighting) and pretty much everything else is all built for 12v nominal. When sticking with a 12v system, all those loads are directly powered by the battery. If you go with a 48VDC system, you need to add a DC:DC converter to the chain to supply the 12V to those safety critical loads. Also, alternator configurations for 48VDC are... interesting to say the least. The other reason is that Victron doesn't yet make a boost solar controller, and it is so nice having all your components (Inverter, solar controllers, alternator, and BMS all integrated and talking to each other via the Cerbo. It's a set and forget system.
I built my first PV system off of 12V because it was small, and easy to understand (for a first time setting up solar). 600W of PV into a Rich Solar 12V/24V 40A MPPT charge controller and two 12V 100A LiFePO4 in parallel has worked great for the last few years to act as emergency power for my pellet stove and refrigerators, as well as run my Starlink 24/7 during the summer. This is being run through a Giandel 1200W 12V inverter. Performs flawlessly. Edited to add: Now that I'm getting into HAM radio, I'll keep this 12V system around and maybe expand it a bit to run my HAM setup as well. :-)
Running a 2.5kw system on an older 3k Growatt with 10kw batteries, Just wanted to thank you for your videos and time you invest, You were a big part in me becoming inspired to add a small system diy mounts and all to just reduce my use of the grid and supply a few days of backup on gas furnace and a few critical loads....Just a heartfelt thank you.
...feel like you are talking directly to me here 😆 I started out with 12v smaller cheaper systems cos I didn't want to destroy anything expensive. Just now after building 4 systems, i'm confident and bored enough with 12v and want to move up to 48v next👍
I've a 12v system, built 2019. Always on Victron multiplus 2000kva and a additional giandel 3000w, Epever MPPT. Mainly due to your videos, with a raw cell 12kwh bank. It just works!
Will, three 100watt solar panels powering batteries and a 12V 2K inverter at the deer camp. We don't use near the 2K watts. That's why I'm just sticking with 12V.
Wowza! You present in a VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE and VERY FRIENDLY manner. Still way over my 71 year old head, but this is only the first 13 minutes of the first 17 minute video I have watched of yours - and there is knowledge to be gained. I have visited many RUclipss and Will Wright on DIY RV Solar Systems Facebook recommended that if I had not watched your channel, go do it. This is the first i have heard on the 48V. I have a 2022 2600RB with a shattered 165V Furrion panel, 30A controller, and a lead based 12V battery - all original equipment. I thought I would replace the working shattered panel and add another, along with lithium batteries; and I thought a lot of it was out there - but via your channel, I think I just changed galaxies. I want to boondock some and my wife - not so much;-)) I am looking forward to watching more of your videos, and trying to gain some more knowledge. THANKS & WOWZA - AGAIN!
Hi Will. I've been off grid at my ranch for 50 years. First had a car battery and a small used ex military small panel. Then went to real panels (ex PG&E) about 35 years ago. Then to store bought and L16's about 20 years ago, With Outback inverters. I have upgraded the system more and more, now it is a 24V system, with 4 outback inverters. I run my wood shop all on this. I've got about 6kw of panels, and will go up to 10KW in another year, but the problem is now is that the old inverters are all 24V and so hard to really get to use as much energy I can generate with panels. I wish I could go to 48 V, but the inverters can't handle that. I suppose I'll have to get new inverters, even though those old Outbacks are still good. I keep watching your stuff as I need to know what to go to next! You definitely know your stuff. I run 220 and 3 phase in my wood shop, up to 5 hp motors (on 3 phase, with a VFD) I hope to go to a non lead acid, (currently they are the fork lift type of battery). I'd like a 48V (or more?) system, with the newest batteries, inverters and all, without paying $20K. Because of the woodshop energy draw, (and longer periods of rain ) I'd love to have a system that stores something like 1000 AH minimum. And inverters to handle 14,000 watts or so? My system was ~$2400 each inverter, and batteries was another $5K for the two, so it cost about $14K 20 years ago. Served well, but seems like I can get something better now for about the same amount of money. Those old Lead acid I try never to go below 80%. Yeah, I want to go to 48V LI batteries, but need the right inverters too.
Save your old system or sell it. We have some friends who saved their old system (and it's old) and they utilized it elsewhere, but they also have a farm. Aside from that; They reside in Alaska, so they used it for the chicken pen and a couple of other sections within their farm. You may make changes at your off- grid location and you know you have the backup. Or, you can sell it? Check out what other people are selling used solar array packages. Will explained how many companies are out there ripping people off. You may take a small loss, but it's worked well for you throughout the decades. You're at an advantage point either way.
For me, and the people I advise, mostly family, it’s definitely about the 12v alternator charging while driving. They’re mostly about lights and a fridge. With maybe some part time inverter use for a kettle, microwave or toaster. Very informative though, and when I set up the vessel for live aboard, I’ll definitely be looking at 48v. Thanks for sharing. 😃🇦🇺
I traveled Australia for 12 months in very harsh environment and ran 3x VoltX 200amp, Renogy 2000 + 3000W inverters, Renogy solar Controler. The inverters running fridges 24/7. No issues with this setup at all.
Sailboat,, this is why a 12v batt. works for my needs to operate all the systems on board, while sailing the auto pilot, nav electronics, lights, and so many others use 12v. the 50' sailboat doesn't have room for solar (in cloudy high latitude areas). So if I use 48v batts. to run 120v AC, I will need 3 systems? 1.12V starting AGS batt. & alternator 2. 12v lifepo & DC to DC charger 3. 48v lifepo batts. & another DC to DC charger and 120v AC charger from the generator / shore power grid. ..... Or just add 2 more 206amp 12v lifepo to the new one I already have and finish the project without 48v. ?
I built a 12v mobile system because that’s what I understand, going with a 24 or 48 you need more components like a step down to 12v. Your book really didn’t go into that. Love what you do keep it up and maybe one day I’ll wrap my brain around the bigger systems.
I built a 12v off grid system. Works well and was still cheap. As an electrician, I didn't have to sweat wire costs. I have scraps from jobs readily available. My inverter is a 12v/120v 3500 watt. I'm fully aware of the amp potential being 292 amps. I have a PowMr 60 amp MPPT budget charge controller. I have 7, 100 watt renogy mono panels. I have 5 100 a/h Dr prepare lithium iron phosphate batteries. I have a 35 amp solar array discount. I have 5, 100 amp inline circuit breakers. On for each battery. I ran everything through a busbar panel and put a 300 amp in line circuit breaker on my inverter positive. I also put an eco worthy ammeter with a hall effect sensor in this system. I came in just under 4000 dollars. Over time of course. So far, I can't complain.
@hmmm2564 panels were less than 70$ per. The batteries were less than 200$ per, and the charge controller was less than 100$. The battery monitor was less than 100$. The only things I bought all together where the batteries. My inverter was only 300$. Everything came from Amazon. And I did all this over the course of a year or so. So yes, it was pretty cheap.
I started my 12 vdc system 22 years ago and it has slowly evolved over time. There is no reason to rip everything out to replace it with a 48vdc system.
I could never afford to do a big system, but I do have a 200w 270ah 1800w inverted system that I built myself for under $200 that has done us VERY well for a few years now
Thank you for providing such informative videos. I have a class A RV and just ordered the Victron inverter and Epoch 460ah battery. Yes I went 12v because I wanted to charge the batteries with the alternator (bought Victron DC/DC charger too). I considered 24 and 48v but chose to stay with 12v since it was my first conversion to lithium. The only thing that I didn’t hear you talk about was a 48v to 12v converter. This is important since all RV DC systems are 12v. I’ll probably go 48v next time or series another battery and go 24v.
to me the only time it would make sense is when you want a large amount of solar panels you would then need to to to a 48v system but for something you you are doing is just fine for 12v and is the much cheaper way to go
You're correct that we started out with 12, bc that's all I heard of in off grid living to begin with. Then, rotted our brains trying to learn all this random electrical stuff all of sudden. Also already have time, money and 12v appliances etc. ... the idea of starting over is... overwhelming. For me, thats why I am where I am with this process myself. I appreciate this explainer video tho. Thanks
@@johnmca5643 ah yeah I'm a bit farther ahead (unfortunately not as remote...) but with a 320w panel and a 100amh battery- that I got second hand its called a Redstar? No I think its Northstar and the Red model, idk. they're used in industrial situation like for running roadside sinage via solar kind of thing from what I gather. Anyway, been cruising along for 6 years with it now so, not bad for a used freebie. lol I have a second 235w panel, but just never got around to really needing it but since the sky is never blue anymore I'll be finally adding it on board. Good luck out there ✌
@@winsome6705 idk that my opinion is much to go by... but, I'd say if I was starting over or doing a van build, I would still go the 12v route. With the exception of a full on larger scale setup for whole home- non minimalist lifestyle system aka $$$ then I'd look more seriously at what Will is saying here That's my take, good luck!
Good info as usual. I've been around the 12 volt stuff a lot more as I play around in the amateur radio space.. but those radios and even the computer and other accessories I run with them all pull less than 40 amps when transmitting. My first experience with a 48 volt system was last year while I was helping my father rebuild his home solar system and it really is fairly simple.. everything plays by the same rules for the most part. This video will certainly help more people get on board!
I am just in the middle of building a 100Ah 12V with a 1000W inverter and 400W panels for my small cargo trailer conversion and it is the perfect system as you say. 48V well suited for a larger system
We just upgraded to the EG4 48 volt batteries in our motorhome. With the 6000XP all in one. You are right, what a difference in efficiency. Thanks for your videos. You are making a difference. For people looking to do solar. 👍👍
@mandmmilling3716 No step-down. There is no connection between the 12V system of our motorhome. As we travel the 2000 watts of solar on the roof. Will recharge our batteries. Which means there is no need to change the alternator. Thank you for watching our videos and for your comment. We appreciate your support.
@mandmmilling3716 We don't, I have 3 sets of batteries. 1 set is used to start the engine and power the chassis components. 2nd set powers all of the 12 volt items in the motorhome. The lights, water pump, and some their refrigerator. The 48 volt batteries power the inverter. Which supplies 120 VAC to the wall outlets, TV, microwave, and the residential refrigerator we use. The inverter charges the batteries from our solar panels. Can charge when we plug into shore power. Also, can charge from a generator. The EG4 6000XP is a all in one. Charge controller, battery charger, and inverter. I have a video of the upgrade we just performed. If you have the time, watch it, which can provide a visual overview. I also have other videos on the 12 volt system we just replaced.
This makes good sense. What doesnt tho is a fridge for ute, van setups. I see fridges will commonly mention draw on 12v, 24v (and 240v) but not 48v. Whats the go there? I keep seeing mention of AC converting for this
It’s very hard to change people’s mind to move to 24 volt let alone 48 volt. It is a bizarre phenomenon ! The off grid camping forums are full off people with massive 12 volt setups and their running induction cooktops and air fryers that use thousands of watts. If you recommend they move to a higher dc voltage they get very defensive! Saying that I’m still building 12 volt systems, just made a hand truck with a 300ah lithium battery and all Victron components! I have a 100/50 controller and 800 watts of solar through two residential panels. I posted my hand truck in the show and tell on the forum. Next one maybe 48 volt? 😂
Another easy/probably cheapest way to set up in vehicle charging in my opinion, is a 400-600w HF (Giandel is fantastic for the $$ as you said!) 12v inverter to AC charge your 48v like you would at home. Not the most efficient, but I tell people to do that vs buy those rather expensive and cumbersome 12v to 48v DC-DC chargers (I forget the name.. but they're NOT cheap and take a ton of power to run. Like 70 amps! Most alternators can't handle this) or to do 12v/12v DC-DC 20-40a and have to deal with the handicaps a 12v system has. A 48v alternator however, is also a great idea. Most efficient way by far to accomplish this scenario and get the bonus of 48v and one I haven't seen much of as of yet, but I assume it's a growing market.
I was going to mention the 12v loads in RV’s but you then added it to the very end of your video 😂. Can you elaborate on the 48v alternator and an example of how that would work? I’ve never heard of that and it would be very interesting to see. My initial thoughts on why I don’t have a 48v you hit on: -Not very familiar with 48v -Have 12v loads in RV -48v is higher voltage and is more dangerous than 12v which is more forgiving (in my thoughts). -DC to DC charging from vehicle alternator (mobile application 12v initially appears to be a better option) -Already have 12v equipment like inverters & chargers that I already spent money on.
its simply not worth for your setup I think he's talking more of the ppl that are off grid not the ppl with rv's only real reason to go 48v is if you want a big solar panel setup maybe over 1000 watts or need more then 3000 watts of power output
For 48V you can get a buck converter which has decent efficiency for lowering 48V to 12V. However a secondary 48V alternator is not that cheap to buy and install. Also it lowers your mpg a bit. Frankly if you want more power and your vehicle and array isn’t that big a 24V system is fine. Just the parts are harder to come by in an emergency.
Glad you are not forgetting the beginners. With the newer, larger systems coming out, it's easy to forget that some still need to understand the basic design. Well done as always Will.
One element that may still motivate folks to use 12V is the perception that it is inherently safer than 48V. Please read what I wrote carefully before reacting. I am not saying they are correct, only that this perception may be one of the factors.
I did 12v because those were the first vids of yours I came across 4yrs ago and you taught me how 🤣 but my Vmax batteries and my GoWise inverter are still going strong 💪
Will... you are the man when it comes to solar. You have come a long way. Always with that enthusiasm. Big fan young man. Im really contemplating doing a 48v back up system for my home. And I know I can do it thanks to you. God Bless 🙌 🙏
Mr. Prowse, your videos have helped me understand many aspects of solar systems, been watching your videos for a long time now, I have successfully done a SHTF off grid split face system in our house for our well, septic, most outlets/lights, 3 refrigerators, one freezer chest and one mini split AC, your videos answered many questions I had and made this project quite enjoyable to tackle. Thanks for what you do.
12V is fine for MANY use cases. My small camper only needs a couple of amps MAX and that's running tank heaters. So having 4-600 amp hours of 12v batteries is the easiest thing to install.
Hi. Even when I build RV from scratch from a car equipped with strong alternator, it does more sense to keep at the same voltage (12/24V) than go 48V, because sending 2-3kW from alternator to house via buck-boost converters is a difficult task. Battery combiners can handle this better, but require the same voltage level.
Excellent video/advice Will. The probable reason for 12 volt systems is/was that was the cheap and easy way to start looking into solar. I know you pushed people to go to 24 Volt early on but the initial cost to do that included, at that time, expensive batteries and not as many options. Keep up the good work and advice and thank you.
I’m convinced. If I ever need to build a new system, or start over for the one I have, I’ll go 48V. My reason for sticking with 12V is: It’s what I already have, replacing it now would be very expensive.
Great video. I have invested too much money in my 12V system to start over with 48V. But, if I start replacing my equipment, I will go with 48V. For example, I have three Renogy 12V, 200Ah batteries that can not be connected in series. That was quite an investment. Basically, everything that I have is geared to 12V. What do most people do when they want to upgrade to 48V but they have to sell their 12V equipment? Are there any DC to DC converters that can produce 48V with an input of 12V?
12v for my sailboat. Very small use of the inverter for ac 110/120. 90% of my systems/equipment is 12v. My off-grid home is being upgraded to 48v from 24v. Thanks for your brilliantly simple explanations, Will!
What about circuit breakers and fuses for 48V systems? So many of the common components are rated for 48V max, not the actual running voltage of a 48V (51.2) system. Is there a reliable source for that?
It depends on what you are powering. If your load is all 12vdc, a 12v system makes sense. If you are expecting 120vAC, then 48v makes sense. SO those of us with a boat that has 12vlighting, 12v nav, 12v refrigeration, 5v phones. and wants to power either a laptop or the odd drill. A 500watt inverter will do fine. In general, anyone who must have 120v (or 230v) AC on a boat are in a class of richness beyond anything I can dream of. These are people who have already spent 10 times or more just on the vessel in the first place. For a remote location cabin, I am not sure anything more than 12v is needed either. Cooking on solar does not really make sense, burn wood and you are left with the same very low electrical requirements. It may still be worth putting the higher voltage system, most portable fridges will run on 24v (not 48) and it would not be hard to just double up on lights (though more frustrating to trouble shoot :) Having a large AH battery still makes sense, even at 12v and T-class fuse may be needed.... but not thick wires, just appropriate sized wires for the generally low current draw with fusing to match. I am guessing that my case(s) are not the cases you are talking to (and thats ok) because all of your systems are of the fairly complete run a normal house off solar where 48v makes sense for DIY and higher voltage makes sense with the right install. If I am off grid, I want lower complexity than that and aside from low volt lighting, I will likely have some oil lamps too. If I am off grid because society has died, I want no wifi or bluetooth anything. (So far we seem to have managed to avoid that)
I am working on a solar cart that has 4 of the 12.8v LiFePO4 100ah mini's from Power Queen in parallel because they provide massive surge current. I have used that battery bank to jump start a neighbor's car that had a completely dead battery, which is the reason I picked 12v for that particular build.
My off grid 12v system was less than 1,200. My Battle Born 100wh heated lithium battery was 700. Victron Dc to Dc charger with solar charger with Ac/Dc controler works awesome and has now for 5yrs!! I have 3ways of charging and running my equipment!! My truck Alternator, 400w Solar panels, Ac Shore power! Alot of us don’t have that kind of room or that kind of startup money!! I like your videos back when you were first getting started! And said after cutting open a Battle Born Battery with Victron components they were the best!! Now it’s all about another Battle!! I guess big money talks! Please get back to us little people!! And remember you’re being’s!!
I build exclusively 12v systems for my clients , short runs super efficient. We don't ever go into 24v or higher territory until we go over 1500w of solwr panels.
Why do 48V batteries last longer, don't all these batteries basically use the same raw cells? And what does "last longer" mean, calendar age or cycles?
the cells in 48V batteries are typically code compliant and have better cells. you get way more charge cycles with less degradation. just look up the spec sheets. compare a powerpro to some redodo battery or other random chinese 12v
...because my RV is 12v. 3 - 100ah SOK's in parallel. I don't need hundreds of amps, I need the capacity. However, using the 2000w Renogy inverter, it will run the 13500 BTU A/C for about 2.5 hours continuously. 160a for that. Other reasons: I don't need to recharge the batteries from dead while on the road; just maintain the charge for the refrigerator. A 20a DC to DC converter is plenty powered off of my 30a pin on my 7-pin plug. The fridge doesn't run continuously. It is a 10 cu ft frost free fridge that draws about 80w 50% duty cycle after it's reached operating temperature and will run for 30 hours off the bank with residual 12v loads. Try to find a 48 volt converter charger. We go from campsite to campsite that have electricity. I recharge there. If I do boondock, I have twin Honda EU2000i generators and one of them can recharge the bank in 5 hours using the Parallax 60a LiFePO4 converter charger. I'm not going to trust a 48v to 12v dc-dc converter from a mass manufactured plant in China. I need 12v reliably. Has anyone priced adding a 48 volt alternator and cabling to a Chevy Duramax diesel? So, for me, KISS is 2 voltages; 12v and 120v.
Right. I've been using a $15 solar charge controller, $150 inverter and used AGM batteries for over 10 years. We have very different definitions of "budget". I think you got waaaay too much free stuff and don't really understand how much someone has to work in order to afford a $2,000 battery. Also, your battery recommendation is not safe to use at -40 in a auto or un-heated garage.
You are a good teacher. Always a great wealth of knowledge and able to explain topics well. I stumbled across Dabbsson and picked up their 2400-Watt system and recently added the 3000-Watt expansion battery. I was impressed with the features of the expansion battery with dual (XT-60) ports of 600 watts of solar for each port for a total of 1200 watts. It will also charge from a car's 12-volt system (XT-60) and has an Anderson power pole 25 Amp output port. No AC input or output without the main battery. The battery is 48 Volts.
I have been using 12 volts for many years and will continue to do so as many of my appliances are 12 volts. It suits my needs and has done since 1985. I use Trojan RT 104 golf cart batteries and a 2000 watt inverter. In Australia the sun is continuous and free. Maybe different over there but i love my little cabin and my Off grid system.
I love my Li time batteries and Renology charge controller for ultra portable use. I can hook up one or two of the 100ah batteries with a cheap 400w Walmart inverter and have all the power I need for charging phones/laptop while camping,and it doesn't take up much room in my truck. And when I am home, I can put the li time batteries in series to augment my bigger systems if needed. It's a very versatile way to go. For my medium sized systems I run 24v, which again offers some versatility in being able to swap or agment with different batteries in a pinch, and run lights and appliances directly off the batteries instead of having conversion losses. Anything above 3000w though is 48v all the way.
You have convinced me to look into a 48v system. My 12v system is simply used for power outages for lights and keep the modem and computer working but I am very intrigued on how much more I can get out of a 48v system. Thank you Will. I really like your videos. Very detailed for us no nothing beginners LOL
Even Tesla said it for their cyber truck: “finding 48v components was a nightmare.” I wouldn’t doubt that they had to fund smaller companies to make 48v speakers, switches, and mechanical motors for their applications. I know there exists 48v component now for everything but it is still not as common. Hopefully soon. I assume 12v was the go to DC component approach for decades because of the low voltage use in simpler times. Now that we want to wire everything and we are in the digital age 48v makes all the sense.
For me I am full-time in my rv with access to full 30a shore power. I am looking to reduce consumption an have been looking into a 12v system purely to run the 12v service in my rv. No inverters, just purely 12v. I did an experiment recently and by shutting off my converter and running off battery only, I installed a shunt and was just trying to measure actual consumption / output purely from the battery. For the duration of the test period, I averaged 1.1 kwh / day from the battery vs an average of 2.6 kwh / day when running the 12v off the converter. So I'm looking at moving ahead with 200ah lithium battery, that's double daily average requirement, a 400 or 600 watt array to keep it charged, with an AC / DC lithium charger as backup to the solar but open to recommendations for this system.
In this video you keep trashing 12v systems and you repeatedly ask why would anyone build a 12 v system. I built a 12v system in my van with 2 battleborns an epever tracer bn 40 and 700 watts of solar because of your recommendations. Now your trashing your own recommendations? Just sayin.
In a mini van with wet towels and bathing suits, I don’t want to tip toe around shocking myself with a higher voltage system. Will, can I talk about moisture safety, boxes, housing, 460 epoch and inverter big enough to run full size casori air fryer
Im have 12 volt that I built 2 years ago. Since then 24 and 48 technology has really blossomed. My wallet unfortunately has not😮. So the next system I build will be 48 volt. Thanks for all your advice and educational content. And especially your honesty, and integrity.
I am not seeing where the added cost is coming from on 12V. When I look at the Victron 12V gear vs the 48V gear, prices are nearly the same. When I look at 12V batteries vs. 48V batters (same ah rating), cost is nearly the same and 48V seems a tad more and fewer options. The only cost difference I'm finding is in the cable themselves. However, if you are not stringing a lot of cabling from the back of an RV to the front, and only dealing with cabling in 1 compartment, that difference is negligible. I could see the cost savings in a stationary, home array, but for RV applications, there doesn't appear to be any significant cost savings either way. So what am I missing?
I'm an old telecomm guy so, yeah, I'm very familiar with 48V stationary systems. I'm now building out my dream camper van and now you have me intrigued about doing a 48V mobile system...
Thank you Will you are a great source of information. That said I think a lot of folks want to avoid higher volts for safety reasons. It makes me wonder why 36v all-in-one systems aren't readily available.
I have a 12v system with 4 100amp Battleborns (per your recommendation, and that's why I have a 12v system 😅 ok I think it's been 8 years full time now) connected with the new Sterling Power DC to DC BB1270 delivering 60 to 61 Amps with 2 Bouge RV Yuma 200s giving 431 watts on the best day. The DC to DC changing is crucial for our use. Sterling nailed it with this unit. Went through 6 Sterling charges a redarc back to Sterling with different configurations back when Adam worked there. The Sterling chargers in the red metal cases are absolutely amazing. Almost a whole year and not a problem. Now I guess 48v, but the Battleborns are still cranking away. Hard to swallow the cost of a 48v altinator and installation and the 48v Sterling charger longer serpentine belts on a Mercedes Sprinter.
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Again. Thank you for the effor here...your work is much appreciated for the community. Thanks, Will.
We have a 12 vote system on our RV because we started in 2018. We bought your book and used it as a guideline for how to do our project. I imagine there are many people who followed your book and are stuck with a 12 volt system. Other than Battle Born and Lion there simply weren't any other good batteries in 2018 and Victron was the only inverter at the time that was highly recommended. My 10 year 100 amp Battle Borns (4)have a long way to go. However if I were building one today I think the forty eight volt would absolutely be the way to go. The tech and competition has changed a lot in the last 6 years. Thanks for your programs. I have been following you since 2017. Best out there.
The biggest thing I ran into is people don't understand the amp hours they get confused thinking of 12 volt 200 amp hour is better than a 48 volt 100 amp hour cuz they don't know how to convert it to watt hours this is the biggest problem I've run into when trying to get people to convert their RV over
The higher the tech ,,, the more to go wrong.
Though it should be noted that the MPPT 100/30 only supports 12/24V. And even though this is a 12V system, there is no reason not to buy a Victron that can do 12/24/36/48V. That make upgrading later on cheaper. So I recommend the Victron SmartSolar 100/20 or the 150/35.
The 100/20 is $85. It is a really good value, though at only 20A it is really designed more for 24V and 48V system. Still, for a starter 12V system a 100/20 supports 256W of solar (12.8V x 20A = 256W).
And always make sure it is a "SmartSolar" (which has built-in bluetooth), and not the "BlueSolar" (no built-in bluetooth).
Please never sellout like other RUclipsrs... I have no intention on building an off grid system (i have an ongrid system) but i still watch you clips for the interesting, in depth, information. Thank you!
I don't think it's possible 😂 I've been brutally honest even as a child. I'd rather die than not haha
@@WillProwse
😜🙏🖖
I would love to see Will sell out and do a collab with Fendi!! Or even Louis Vuitton! That would be awesome.
@@WillProwse what do you think about eco worthy batteries? They have a 12v 280ah for $512.
I have to admit I actually bought the bluetti ac200max on Will's recommendation. It's still going after a year of continuous use
Will, don’t get stuck on the idea that everyone needs 120 power in an RV or mobile application, the main systems almost all require 12v even if they will run on 120v as well. Slides, furnace, lights, jacks, hot water heater…Here in the summer at 90-103 deg outside, we’re a 43ft rv running 3 rv ACs, no one is running full off grid in an RV, just too inefficient to do so at our temps and humidity levels. Now in the winter a simple 12v system 2-3 lithium batteries (no inverter) 2-3 100w panels and your good to go, paired with propane for heat. So 12v systems still have their place depending on what you need for power. So keep going with the great 12v battery tear downs and videos, the simple system guys like myself really appreciate it.
besides, in what country are 48v bateries chipper? Not in Spain, thats for sure.
One reason people stick with 12v is walmart and auto parts stores don't sell 48v parts. And when you are on the road you need to fix it quickly
I wonder what it'll take to get industry to start stocking 48V...
RV lighting and appliances run off 12V not 48V
That's even more of an issue if you are taking your vehicle/camper outside of North America. It can be near impossible to find a quality 12v pure sine inverter or charger in Guatemala or Peru. Finding the same in 48v... possibly a marine dealer in a large city may have Victron, if you are lucky. Likely you would have ask a friend to courier a replacement 48v item from the US (Customs duties?), else wait a few weeks for shipping. Amazon is not everywhere. I like the idea of 48v systems for all the efficiency reasons Will mentioned, but your point about general availability will likely keep me at 12 volts, at least for my international travel vehicle.
@@GregNTech 48V to 12V stepdown converters are cheap and readily available as they're used in golf carts. If you're worried about reliability carry a spare or two, they're only $20-30 depending on the wattage.
@@andrewfidel2220 That's cool, I didn't know they were that cheap.
Will Prowse, youve probably never heard of Keysight Technologies, but here at HQ all the technicians swear by your videos. This means a lot coming from a building full of engineers. Please keep up the great uploads. You got me into solar last month and i just wanted to say you are making a difference on all levels!
We used Keysight at my old work place. Great company!
You talked for 1:30 griping about people not using 48v and still using 12v. My opinion is that there are multiple reasons: 1. In an emergency they can use their 12v inverter off their car which is 12v. 2. Most people are unaware of the benefits of 48v systems. 3. They already have multiple DIFFERENT 12v batteries and 12v panels.
Run a 48v system but keep a spare 12v inverter to run off your car battery in an emergency.
Or just get an inverter with adjustable input. Plenty of 12/24/48 adjustable@@lawrencedavidson6195
Yeah he's pretty impressed with his own opinions. He could just explain why he has the opinion but he has to say "I don't know why anyone would..."
48v makes absolutely no sense to me. This is the first I've ever heard of a "boost converter". So, that's one more thing to investigate. Getting ready to build a 12v setup, as I don't want a large, expensive, clunky unit and I certainly don't want 3 (or even 2) 400 watt solar panels that the 48v monstrosities seem to use.
@@louc6635 cool story bro. Show me in my comments where I said "I don't know why anyone would"? I stated all the reasons 12v made sense for the average person.
While I agree that 48v is much better, 12v can make sense but mostly for legacy reasons. My boat for instance already has all the wiring for 12v, as well as multiple 12v pumps, tv, fridge, lighting, chargers, engine etc. 48v accessories are far less common, and often not available, and everything would be very expensive to change. You can step down of course, but it's just extra expense. It's the same reason vehicle manufactures have stuck with 12v for so long. The 12v ecosystem already exists for all the components , the 48v one doesn't.
I have a small 12v system, 100ah Power Queen LiFePo4 battery, 60amp LiTime charge controller and two 450 watt panels. When i upgrade eventually, i will go right up to 48v. I also build a few small 12v systems that i give away to less fortunate friends and acquaintances. Thanks for the video Will, you are the man. Greetings from Jamaica.
Sept 19 2024 Update: I now have five 12v 100ah Power Queen LiFePo4 batteries in parallel still in a 12v config. and four 450 watt panels. Everything in running well, some connections do get slightly warm but not how. I'm still gonna upgrade to either 24 or 48v soon.
Keep in mind that smaller and older sailboats have 12V systems.
If i should go for a 24 or 48V system i need DC-DC converters down to 12 for my instruments and often VHF.
And to replace, fridges, depthsounder, speed-sensor, wind-sensor, autopilot, MFDs, GPS, VHF, lights etc to something that handles a higher voltage brings with it ALOT of money (guessing somewhere around 10-15k USD).
And allthou i can run it with a DC-DC converter i will loose quite alot energy to heat, with limited space for solar, i do not have energy to spare.
And the inverter for a small sailboat does not hardly get used either, so the focus for us is more often than not on the 12V-system. :)
Thanks for the content!
I am in the exact same "boat". When I saw this video I thought the same thing as you. 12v is the way to go on a sailboat. I probably have 20k worth of 12v equipment on my boat and very little 120v. I seldom turn on my inverter.
My boat run on 12 volt
Totaal 3kwh battery (2x150Ah lipo4)
With totaal of 550watt solar power .
Everything works on board on the solar power with easy.
Fridge only use 2.5 amps and the freezer use about 5 amps .
The solar power can do about 30/35 amps .
Means by a good light of 5 hours i have pump the battery to 100/150ah
So really its always full or i have bad days .
Still it cost about 5 days for the battery are empty by normal use.
Also running a 12v windlass. I am not sure how I am going to run mine if I switch to LiPo batteries yet without a very large BMS(s).
@@swimmer5612 v battery in parallel.
Than the load will be over 2 battery so over 2 bms
My 12v 150a lifepo4 do 150a continu on the bms.
2 samen battery will do 300a .
A custom beult battery you can set a bms you like.
I would love to hear more about your setup @@zackhowell9047
I went 12v as I have a 12v fridge, a 12v tv, all lights and fans in my van are 12v, a 12v radio. I do have 240v microwave but use it for very short time. An off grid home would be a no brainer for 48v though. Love your videos, keep them coming
I can answer some of your 12v questions. I have a large motor yacht that runs on 12v. Changing all the 12v panels and fixtures would be very cost prohibitive. My option would be build a 48v system and step it down to 12v at the panel. Next, changing to a 48v alternator is really expensive. A 48v balmar can run over 3k. To put that in prospective, a renogy dc to dc is a couple hundred. And, its not just changing the alternator. Your engine ecu is probably 12v. Your starter is going to be 12v or 24v. Basically what i am say its not as easy to switch to 48v as you make it sound. If you are building a new system from scratch, go for it, 48v is a great way to go. If you already have a large 12v system on you boat or rv, its not that simple.
I have been looking into a 48v system for my motoryacht. The best i have come up with is a step down converter in front of the 12v panels, and a second alternator in 48v to charge the house bank. That would leave the 12v alternator to charge the start banks of my marine diesels.
You hit the nail on the head here. Any decent 48v Alternator is $4,000 +/- installed. Will seems to obsess over the cable gauge - which may cost an extra couple hundred dollars, when he says nothing about the $4k + expense of just the 48v alternator - and all the other 48v to 12v stepping needed for standard equipment.
Sorry Will, 48v for most mobile applications outside of high end motor yachts or rail - only buys you efficiency but at significantly more cost.
Good points! I live in a travel trailer with lots of 12VDC stuff, so I have a split system with both 12VDC and 48VDC. For me, I like the redundancy -- if one system fails, the other is ready to rock. Plus, maintaining 12VDC provides a battery for the emergency disconnect system on the trailer brakes.
Ham Radio usually requires 12v in the field. Lots of use for a 12v system. You are correct that most of them are small systems.
It's pretty easy to step the voltage down
You don't want to hang the ham rig off the home battery anyway, it is usually too noisy electrically (EMF/EMI). So for that case, and also for marine radios (less power but super-critical in case of emergency), you use a 12V down-buffer battery that is charged from the home battery. It doesn't have to be a big battery, just big enough to handle the transmit load.
I run my shack fully off grid Yaesu ft897D.. It did take a lot of work with ferrite sleeves and ft240/31 cores to get the noise to sn acceptable level
Another thing was multiple earth's caused a lot of issues
But now I can hear US Air Traffic Control on 17.946mhz at night in my kenwood R1000
Something impossible before the noise work
Cheers guys
I have only a small system: charging my phone and laptop.
But it’s honest of you to give us the truth.
Thank you for your work.
Do you have an inverter or just dc-dc with power delivery adapters?
@@AlexanderBelikov I bought an all-in-one before I knew better. And it is an EcoFlow: the ac inverter burned out the first week! The AC charger stopped the 1st month.
The top of their manual essentially says: Their manual blames the user. Other buyers save they have no customer service.
Every idiot like me has to learn the hard way. Ugh.
@@AlexanderBelikov I bought an inverter and solar panels.
I charged it March 2023 and it has not lost any charge, February 2024. It’s still at 80% as I only used it to charge my phone.
Hi Will, I have an answer and a reason for using a 12 volt system. When I camp (like at Burning Man), I use a lot of 12 power. I have a CPAP, laptop computer, multiple 12 V LED light strings, a 50 watt VHF/UHF Amateur radio, a 12 V refrigerator, a 12 V USB bank for charging head lamps and bike lights. All of this stuff runs on 12 volts. Why would I convert to 120 VAC and then have to use multiple 120 volt A/C to 12 volt DC convertors? Now I completely agree that for stationary systems 48 volts is the answer, 48 volts is much more efficient and lower losses. But when most of your stuff is 12 volts it isn't efficient to convert up and then back down again. I do also have a 2,000 watt inverter for charging a couple of tool chargers that only work on 120 volt A/C. So I believe that this is a case, at least my case for building a 12 volt system.
I’m with you on this. It’s so much easier to find 12v products over 48v and to step down to 12v is counter intuitive to me.
He just explained why in the video
@@hmmm2564come again with the why cuz I'm taking notes I'm trying to build my first system and want to do a 48 volt instead of messing with a 12-volt system for my minivan camper build if you don't mind please. Otherwise I guess I have to get multiple 120 volt AC to 12 volt DC connectors as far as this person stated
@@winsome6705why not convert dc to dc? They are cheap and more efficient
@gb2983 ik more now and that is what I'm gonna do ty
Thank you Will! Two extra expenses that were not considered in this video while using 48v battery bank in an RV:
1. 48v-to-12v buck converter for all the 12v loads (fans, lights, fridge, pumps, furnace, etc.)
2. A booster for jump starting the engine battery when needed (I'm guessing most buck converters can't start an engine).
... These plus the 48v alternator I would think could match or exceed the expense of thicker cables for a 12V system, maybe I'm wrong. But I agree, the 48v systems seem better quality.
also shore power battery charger if you want to be able to charge the battery's up when your plugged in! even more cost!
also there is more losses with every part you need to add to the system
3 K plus install for a 48Volt sprinter alternator. Certainly not trivial.
@@Seatown Yes but still cheaper considering how many amps you get
@@NightshiftCustomcomes built into every victron or all in one
@@Seatownall depends on how big it is. If you have a tiny system then it doesn't work
I have a large 12V system for lighting, computers, an RV heater with propane, and the kitchen of a camper that I brought in just for cooking. Of course we're going to disagree on some things and, if you look back at when you were just getting started, you'll see why. The first thing you'll want to power is a refrigerator and a 12V LED if you can't afford to do anything else. For that, you'll probably want the 2000 watt version of the inverter that Will recommends and a couple group 29 or larger Lead Acid batteries. This will get you by and keep your mayonnaise, eggs, milk and jelly from going bad while you're saving up for your 48-volt lithium powered system and a lot more solar than it takes to run a fridge. I had nothing but my truck, a job, and the basics that it took to dress for work and be clean. I found a property with a concrete structure under a good shade tree. I put a jar of preserves, a loaf of bread and some peanut butter in there along with a mattress. After I got paid, I got my first 40-amp MPPT charge controller, 2 group-29 batteries, a couple 100-watt solar panels and some RV dome lights. I ran speaker wire from the panels to the inverter and cut up some jumper cables for my battery wires. My next check got me an inverter and fridge. We all have to start somewhere. It didn't take long to learn that my batteries weren't going to last long with such a small battery bank unless I charged them up with my truck so I expanded. Now I have enough power on tap to run my home and the ones on each side of me. It was Will's videos that inspired me and gave me the confidence to do it all for myself. I did end up buying a ton of lithium cells, a midpoint transformer and off-grid inverters. By the time I finally got these components, I had been able to get a second vehicle, two portable buildings, a strong DIY carport to collect water and solar power and even bought enough extra panels for my ex in case she decided to try to help herself (spoiler alert: They're still in her shed). Do save up for bigger and better equipment but don't suffer along the way unless you're accustomed to it. I was a trucker for 19 years so I knew what I needed to get by and what foods can be used even when you ignore the refrigerate after opening print. Being poor and smart has helped me to become well off and wise. I could have made a series of videos, parallel to Will's, on how to crawl up from poverty to upper middle class in three years while earning a lower middle class income. Of course, It would have been faster if I had the RUclips income along with my standard earnings but I'm not very socially adept and I never wanted a large home and fancy cars. There's not a single person out there who couldn't benefit from some solar power if for nothing but food preservation and lighting in a grid down situation. That's not to say that you should just store the power. Use it full time and know that, if you lose your satellite television, you still have frozen meats and vegetables and no worries that they will go bad if it takes days for the municipality to get off their rumps and fix things.
I have a sailboat, with 12V everything i.e. fridge, lights, water pump, bilge pump, navigation equipment, autopilot, etc. If I went with a 48V system, how do I step down the voltage to run my stuff? I don't have an inverter - the boat runs on DC. I don't understand how a 48V system is an advantage?
Exact same question as you.
Efficiency, can use lighter copper wire? Not too much info out there for the small, mobile builds.
Hats off to you for paying homage to the simpler folks not living in mansions driving fancy cars that love their 12v systems, good to see you still care.
I went with a middle ground 24v system 2 years ago in my van as I already had a 24v 2000w inverter, plus the iceco frig I bought can run off 24v. And it’s been working well…I have 2 Victron 75/15 solar charge controllers one for 600w roof panels and 350w ground panels, 16KW of lifepo4 prismatic cells and it’s all worked well.
how did you get 600 watts on the roof?
@@uupyerkilt two Bouge rv 200 watt panels and two small unknown brand 100 watt panels fit on the roof of a ford transit.
@bluejeanvanlife8627 I know this is an old post so you may not get this but I figured I'd try. I'm currently in the process of building a skoolie and just finished with the demo. I still haven't decided on a solar setup. If you were building your van today would you still go with 24v? Or 12v? Maybe even 48v? Assuming you know everything you know today and you where starting from scratch with no parts. I'm struggling because those 48v systems look awful nice and are priced pretty good but it looks like most of my systems, lights..etc will run on 12v. I haven't seen very many 48v options.
@@BBN04111 I would still go with 24v because my frig is 24v, lights are 24v, and I could use smaller gauge cabling as the current is halved over a 12v system. I have a 24/12v converter for all 12v systems. I also already had a BigBATTERY 24v battery I just paralleled with the 16 prismatic cells I had split into two 24v batteries.
I have a 650 watt panel 7'10×4@uupyerkilt
I do understand what you are saying about 24V or 48V systems. I built my system listening to you about 4 years ago and now I have all these 12V components, inverters, CC and batteries. It's just hard when money is tight to start all over and scrap the 12V products. I wish there is a way to still use the 12V products. Well don't stop keeping us informed.
yea, thats usually where the problem starts when people start out with 12v systems when everyone will tell them 48v should be the starting point but no one ever finds a justification until they need it and when that time comes, they have already acquired too many 12v components.
I'm in the same boat. I followed Will's All in one design worked great until the controller died. Now, I can't afford to scrap batteries and start all over from scratch. Plus I'll need a boost as well for my 2 panels.
dont worry mate, if it meets your needs there is no reason to change it.
I just rebuilt my system went from 24v to 48v and ya the wire size is a big difference…love how everything is running using a powmr 5kw and it’s running great so far
I get it. It makes sense. But: All of the RV and all of the motor parts run at 12V. So we need to buck convert 48V to 12V to run the fridge, lights and everything else DC in the RV. Same with the alternator. Do I want an 48V alternator? I have no idea how to charge the trucks starter battery with this. Another buck converter? So - no. The only significant 12V load I have is a 2KW inverter that has no problems running the microwave or coffee maker. Maybe the next RV.
So whether you go 12v or 48v really depends on what your primary consumption is. Unless you're doing electric propulsion, there are a lot of good reasons to go 12v in the marine environment.
This is largely because your critical consumers are also 12v. Your VHF, your instrumentation (GPS, speed sensor, depth sounder, wind sensor, etc...) , your engine start, refrigeration, autopilot, lighting (including safety critical things like navigational lighting) and pretty much everything else is all built for 12v nominal. When sticking with a 12v system, all those loads are directly powered by the battery. If you go with a 48VDC system, you need to add a DC:DC converter to the chain to supply the 12V to those safety critical loads. Also, alternator configurations for 48VDC are... interesting to say the least.
The other reason is that Victron doesn't yet make a boost solar controller, and it is so nice having all your components (Inverter, solar controllers, alternator, and BMS all integrated and talking to each other via the Cerbo. It's a set and forget system.
COULD YOU PLEASE DO A VIDEO OF A 48V SYSTEM FROM A TO Z. I HAVE A 12V, BUT IF YOU TEACH US, WE CAN SWITCH.
48v Victron system build please!
Yes, a 48v mobile review/plan would be awesome.
and a 48v remote cabin build...that already has two existing 80w 120v panels. 🙂
Oh and a discount shoe string 48volt system btw
Although that does not exist in alternators.
This is exactly what I am hoping he would do!
I built my first PV system off of 12V because it was small, and easy to understand (for a first time setting up solar). 600W of PV into a Rich Solar 12V/24V 40A MPPT charge controller and two 12V 100A LiFePO4 in parallel has worked great for the last few years to act as emergency power for my pellet stove and refrigerators, as well as run my Starlink 24/7 during the summer. This is being run through a Giandel 1200W 12V inverter. Performs flawlessly.
Edited to add: Now that I'm getting into HAM radio, I'll keep this 12V system around and maybe expand it a bit to run my HAM setup as well. :-)
Running a 2.5kw system on an older 3k Growatt with 10kw batteries, Just wanted to thank you for your videos and time you invest, You were a big part in me becoming inspired to add a small system diy mounts and all to just reduce my use of the grid and supply a few days of backup on gas furnace and a few critical loads....Just a heartfelt thank you.
...feel like you are talking directly to me here 😆 I started out with 12v smaller cheaper systems cos I didn't want to destroy anything expensive. Just now after building 4 systems, i'm confident and bored enough with 12v and want to move up to 48v next👍
I've a 12v system, built 2019. Always on Victron multiplus 2000kva and a additional giandel 3000w, Epever MPPT. Mainly due to your videos, with a raw cell 12kwh bank. It just works!
Will, three 100watt solar panels powering batteries and a 12V 2K inverter at the deer camp. We don't use near the 2K watts. That's why I'm just sticking with 12V.
I have used Victron solar controller and Inverters for close to 7 yrs - Zero Problems
Many of us use 12V because you taught us how. That's not a dig or a complaint. It's simply what we know and understand. :)
It's literally the same with 48v but it's cheaper and way more efficient
Wowza! You present in a VERY KNOWLEDGEABLE and VERY FRIENDLY manner. Still way over my 71 year old head, but this is only the first 13 minutes of the first 17 minute video I have watched of yours - and there is knowledge to be gained. I have visited many RUclipss and Will Wright on DIY RV Solar Systems Facebook recommended that if I had not watched your channel, go do it. This is the first i have heard on the 48V. I have a 2022 2600RB with a shattered 165V Furrion panel, 30A controller, and a lead based 12V battery - all original equipment. I thought I would replace the working shattered panel and add another, along with lithium batteries; and I thought a lot of it was out there - but via your channel, I think I just changed galaxies. I want to boondock some and my wife - not so much;-)) I am looking forward to watching more of your videos, and trying to gain some more knowledge. THANKS & WOWZA - AGAIN!
Hi Will. I've been off grid at my ranch for 50 years. First had a car battery and a small used ex military small panel. Then went to real panels (ex PG&E) about 35 years ago. Then to store bought and L16's about 20 years ago, With Outback inverters. I have upgraded the system more and more, now it is a 24V system, with 4 outback inverters. I run my wood shop all on this. I've got about 6kw of panels, and will go up to 10KW in another year, but the problem is now is that the old inverters are all 24V and so hard to really get to use as much energy I can generate with panels. I wish I could go to 48 V, but the inverters can't handle that. I suppose I'll have to get new inverters, even though those old Outbacks are still good. I keep watching your stuff as I need to know what to go to next! You definitely know your stuff. I run 220 and 3 phase in my wood shop, up to 5 hp motors (on 3 phase, with a VFD) I hope to go to a non lead acid, (currently they are the fork lift type of battery). I'd like a 48V (or more?) system, with the newest batteries, inverters and all, without paying $20K. Because of the woodshop energy draw, (and longer periods of rain ) I'd love to have a system that stores something like 1000 AH minimum. And inverters to handle 14,000 watts or so? My system was ~$2400 each inverter, and batteries was another $5K for the two, so it cost about $14K 20 years ago. Served well, but seems like I can get something better now for about the same amount of money. Those old Lead acid I try never to go below 80%. Yeah, I want to go to 48V LI batteries, but need the right inverters too.
Save your old system or sell it. We have some friends who saved their old system (and it's old) and they utilized it elsewhere, but they also have a farm. Aside from that; They reside in Alaska, so they used it for the chicken pen and a couple of other sections within their farm. You may make changes at your off- grid location and you know you have the backup. Or, you can sell it? Check out what other people are selling used solar array packages. Will explained how many companies are out there ripping people off. You may take a small loss, but it's worked well for you throughout the decades. You're at an advantage point either way.
For me, and the people I advise, mostly family, it’s definitely about the 12v alternator charging while driving. They’re mostly about lights and a fridge. With maybe some part time inverter use for a kettle, microwave or toaster. Very informative though, and when I set up the vessel for live aboard, I’ll definitely be looking at 48v. Thanks for sharing. 😃🇦🇺
I traveled Australia for 12 months in very harsh environment and ran 3x VoltX 200amp, Renogy 2000 + 3000W inverters, Renogy solar Controler. The inverters running fridges 24/7. No issues with this setup at all.
I like your way but what about hybrid inverter charger ?
@@TT-vo3xk Didn't use it. So I can't comment on how good it would be.
Sailboat,, this is why a 12v batt. works for my needs to operate all the systems on board, while sailing the auto pilot, nav electronics, lights, and so many others use 12v.
the 50' sailboat doesn't have room for solar (in cloudy high latitude areas).
So if I use 48v batts. to run 120v AC, I will need 3 systems? 1.12V starting AGS batt. & alternator 2. 12v lifepo & DC to DC charger 3. 48v lifepo batts. & another DC to DC charger and 120v AC charger from the generator / shore power grid. ..... Or just add 2 more 206amp 12v lifepo to the new one I already have and finish the project without 48v. ?
Good to know. When in a position to move ...will just be looking at 48 volt systems. Thank you Will, great advice as always.
I built a 12v mobile system because that’s what I understand, going with a 24 or 48 you need more components like a step down to 12v. Your book really didn’t go into that. Love what you do keep it up and maybe one day I’ll wrap my brain around the bigger systems.
I built a 12v off grid system. Works well and was still cheap. As an electrician, I didn't have to sweat wire costs. I have scraps from jobs readily available. My inverter is a 12v/120v 3500 watt. I'm fully aware of the amp potential being 292 amps. I have a PowMr 60 amp MPPT budget charge controller. I have 7, 100 watt renogy mono panels. I have 5 100 a/h Dr prepare lithium iron phosphate batteries. I have a 35 amp solar array discount. I have 5, 100 amp inline circuit breakers. On for each battery. I ran everything through a busbar panel and put a 300 amp in line circuit breaker on my inverter positive. I also put an eco worthy ammeter with a hall effect sensor in this system. I came in just under 4000 dollars. Over time of course. So far, I can't complain.
Sounds expensive for what you get
@hmmm2564 panels were less than 70$ per. The batteries were less than 200$ per, and the charge controller was less than 100$. The battery monitor was less than 100$.
The only things I bought all together where the batteries. My inverter was only 300$. Everything came from Amazon. And I did all this over the course of a year or so. So yes, it was pretty cheap.
I started my 12 vdc system 22 years ago and it has slowly evolved over time. There is no reason to rip everything out to replace it with a 48vdc system.
Interesting. You can get an all in one 48v system + 5kw battery minus the panels for ~ $2100...
Many of us are beginners… you were once a beginner too 😅…continue to learn from you. Awesome videos.
I'm delighted to see the Victron 100/30 keep popping up. Mine arrived yesterday!
I have used ( VICTRON ) 1 -100/50, 5- 100/30, 1-100/20 , and 1 -75/15 in mine, and my Son's rigs.
I could never afford to do a big system, but I do have a 200w 270ah 1800w inverted system that I built myself for under $200 that has done us VERY well for a few years now
Thank you for providing such informative videos. I have a class A RV and just ordered the Victron inverter and Epoch 460ah battery. Yes I went 12v because I wanted to charge the batteries with the alternator (bought Victron DC/DC charger too). I considered 24 and 48v but chose to stay with 12v since it was my first conversion to lithium. The only thing that I didn’t hear you talk about was a 48v to 12v converter. This is important since all RV DC systems are 12v. I’ll probably go 48v next time or series another battery and go 24v.
to me the only time it would make sense is when you want a large amount of solar panels you would then need to to to a 48v system but for something you you are doing is just fine for 12v and is the much cheaper way to go
Im just now going permanently offgrid. Thank you Will. Perfect timing.
You're correct that we started out with 12, bc that's all I heard of in off grid living to begin with.
Then, rotted our brains trying to learn all this random electrical stuff all of sudden. Also already have time, money and 12v appliances etc. ... the idea of starting over is... overwhelming. For me, thats why I am where I am with this process myself.
I appreciate this explainer video tho. Thanks
I'm in the same boat. A remote cabin with two 80w 120v panels. Two 12v batteries. It works just fine for the 8 light bulbs and phone charging.
@@johnmca5643 ah yeah I'm a bit farther ahead (unfortunately not as remote...) but with a 320w panel and a 100amh battery- that I got second hand its called a Redstar? No I think its Northstar and the Red model, idk. they're used in industrial situation like for running roadside sinage via solar kind of thing from what I gather.
Anyway, been cruising along for 6 years with it now so, not bad for a used freebie. lol
I have a second 235w panel, but just never got around to really needing it but since the sky is never blue anymore I'll be finally adding it on board.
Good luck out there ✌
Would you say since I'm building my first system in my minivan to avoid this I should switch my thinking towards a 48 volt system
@@winsome6705 idk that my opinion is much to go by... but, I'd say if I was starting over or doing a van build, I would still go the 12v route. With the exception of a full on larger scale setup for whole home- non minimalist lifestyle system aka $$$ then I'd look more seriously at what Will is saying here
That's my take, good luck!
@@thebandplayedon..6145 thank you for saying I think I'll try out Will's budget 12-volt system then for my 400 W on my roof
Good info as usual. I've been around the 12 volt stuff a lot more as I play around in the amateur radio space.. but those radios and even the computer and other accessories I run with them all pull less than 40 amps when transmitting. My first experience with a 48 volt system was last year while I was helping my father rebuild his home solar system and it really is fairly simple.. everything plays by the same rules for the most part. This video will certainly help more people get on board!
You're the best and easiest-to-understand electrical power instructor. I knew nothing of 48v solar sys before today, Very informative and useful.
I have been using Victron now for 5 years zero issues. All a 12v system. Totally off grid on my hunting cabin in Florida.
I am just in the middle of building a 100Ah 12V with a 1000W inverter and 400W panels for my small cargo trailer conversion and it is the perfect system as you say. 48V well suited for a larger system
This is why I watch this channel and it's always my first recommend to anyone wanting to learn about solar.
We just upgraded to the EG4 48 volt batteries in our motorhome. With the 6000XP all in one.
You are right, what a difference in efficiency.
Thanks for your videos. You are making a difference. For people looking to do solar. 👍👍
What stepdown did you use? Did you change your alternator to?
@mandmmilling3716 No step-down. There is no connection between the 12V system of our motorhome. As we travel the 2000 watts of solar on the roof. Will recharge our batteries. Which means there is no need to change the alternator.
Thank you for watching our videos and for your comment. We appreciate your support.
@@igowhereimtowed6839 how did you connect the 12v to the 48v?
@mandmmilling3716 We don't, I have 3 sets of batteries. 1 set is used to start the engine and power the chassis components. 2nd set powers all of the 12 volt items in the motorhome. The lights, water pump, and some their refrigerator. The 48 volt batteries power the inverter. Which supplies 120 VAC to the wall outlets, TV, microwave, and the residential refrigerator we use. The inverter charges the batteries from our solar panels. Can charge when we plug into shore power. Also, can charge from a generator. The EG4 6000XP is a all in one. Charge controller, battery charger, and inverter. I have a video of the upgrade we just performed. If you have the time, watch it, which can provide a visual overview. I also have other videos on the 12 volt system we just replaced.
@igowhereimtowed6839 so what charges the 12v batteries to power the 12v items?
This makes good sense. What doesnt tho is a fridge for ute, van setups. I see fridges will commonly mention draw on 12v, 24v (and 240v) but not 48v. Whats the go there? I keep seeing mention of AC converting for this
Again you provided important information: I did not know about the alternator burn out of deep discharged batteries.
Thank you. 😊
Alternators have really skyrocketed in price.
@@flipper184 oh, inflation!? Corporations are having Record Profit$.
A windfall profit tax can work wonders.
You are a class act, Will. You obviously remember your roots. Great! Keep it up. Still hoping for a series on a Leen,
It’s very hard to change people’s mind to move to 24 volt let alone 48 volt. It is a bizarre phenomenon ! The off grid camping forums are full off people with massive 12 volt setups and their running induction cooktops and air fryers that use thousands of watts. If you recommend they move to a higher dc voltage they get very defensive! Saying that I’m still building 12 volt systems, just made a hand truck with a 300ah lithium battery and all Victron components! I have a 100/50 controller and 800 watts of solar through two residential panels. I posted my hand truck in the show and tell on the forum. Next one maybe 48 volt? 😂
Another easy/probably cheapest way to set up in vehicle charging in my opinion, is a 400-600w HF (Giandel is fantastic for the $$ as you said!) 12v inverter to AC charge your 48v like you would at home. Not the most efficient, but I tell people to do that vs buy those rather expensive and cumbersome 12v to 48v DC-DC chargers (I forget the name.. but they're NOT cheap and take a ton of power to run. Like 70 amps! Most alternators can't handle this) or to do 12v/12v DC-DC 20-40a and have to deal with the handicaps a 12v system has. A 48v alternator however, is also a great idea. Most efficient way by far to accomplish this scenario and get the bonus of 48v and one I haven't seen much of as of yet, but I assume it's a growing market.
I was going to mention the 12v loads in RV’s but you then added it to the very end of your video 😂. Can you elaborate on the 48v alternator and an example of how that would work? I’ve never heard of that and it would be very interesting to see.
My initial thoughts on why I don’t have a 48v you hit on:
-Not very familiar with 48v
-Have 12v loads in RV
-48v is higher voltage and is more dangerous than 12v which is more forgiving (in my thoughts).
-DC to DC charging from vehicle alternator (mobile application 12v initially appears to be a better option)
-Already have 12v equipment like inverters & chargers that I already spent money on.
its simply not worth for your setup I think he's talking more of the ppl that are off grid not the ppl with rv's
only real reason to go 48v is if you want a big solar panel setup maybe over 1000 watts or need more then 3000 watts of power output
For 48V you can get a buck converter which has decent efficiency for lowering 48V to 12V. However a secondary 48V alternator is not that cheap to buy and install. Also it lowers your mpg a bit.
Frankly if you want more power and your vehicle and array isn’t that big a 24V system is fine. Just the parts are harder to come by in an emergency.
yes 3k+ for a 48v alternator + you still need to get it installed and still have your 12v alt to @@rabbitpumpkin8279
Glad you are not forgetting the beginners. With the newer, larger systems coming out, it's easy to forget that some still need to understand the basic design. Well done as always Will.
One element that may still motivate folks to use 12V is the perception that it is inherently safer than 48V. Please read what I wrote carefully before reacting. I am not saying they are correct, only that this perception may be one of the factors.
I did 12v because those were the first vids of yours I came across 4yrs ago and you taught me how 🤣 but my Vmax batteries and my GoWise inverter are still going strong 💪
Will... you are the man when it comes to solar. You have come a long way. Always with that enthusiasm. Big fan young man. Im really contemplating doing a 48v back up system for my home. And I know I can do it thanks to you. God Bless 🙌 🙏
Mr. Prowse, your videos have helped me understand many aspects of solar systems, been watching your videos for a long time now, I have successfully done a SHTF off grid split face system in our house for our well, septic, most outlets/lights, 3 refrigerators, one freezer chest and one mini split AC, your videos answered many questions I had and made this project quite enjoyable to tackle.
Thanks for what you do.
12V is fine for MANY use cases. My small camper only needs a couple of amps MAX and that's running tank heaters. So having 4-600 amp hours of 12v batteries is the easiest thing to install.
Hi. Even when I build RV from scratch from a car equipped with strong alternator, it does more sense to keep at the same voltage (12/24V) than go 48V, because sending 2-3kW from alternator to house via buck-boost converters is a difficult task. Battery combiners can handle this better, but require the same voltage level.
Can you recommend a plug & play buck converter for providing 12v to RV DC lights & appliances?
Excellent video/advice Will. The probable reason for 12 volt systems is/was that was the cheap and easy way to start looking into solar. I know you pushed people to go to 24 Volt early on but the initial cost to do that included, at that time, expensive batteries and not as many options.
Keep up the good work and advice and thank you.
I’m convinced. If I ever need to build a new system, or start over for the one I have, I’ll go 48V.
My reason for sticking with 12V is: It’s what I already have, replacing it now would be very expensive.
I've been mulling a 48vlt system for my canoe. It's settled I'm doing it
Thanks for the tip
Great video. I have invested too much money in my 12V system to start over with 48V. But, if I start replacing my equipment, I will go with 48V. For example, I have three Renogy 12V, 200Ah batteries that can not be connected in series. That was quite an investment. Basically, everything that I have is geared to 12V. What do most people do when they want to upgrade to 48V but they have to sell their 12V equipment? Are there any DC to DC converters that can produce 48V with an input of 12V?
There may be converters that do that, but most likely they will be very low Amperage on the output.
12v for my sailboat. Very small use of the inverter for ac 110/120. 90% of my systems/equipment is 12v. My off-grid home is being upgraded to 48v from 24v. Thanks for your brilliantly simple explanations, Will!
What about circuit breakers and fuses for 48V systems? So many of the common components are rated for 48V max, not the actual running voltage of a 48V (51.2) system. Is there a reliable source for that?
4 hours after your upload,I watched it All the way, and views got about 700 views, keep it comming.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge!
It depends on what you are powering. If your load is all 12vdc, a 12v system makes sense. If you are expecting 120vAC, then 48v makes sense. SO those of us with a boat that has 12vlighting, 12v nav, 12v refrigeration, 5v phones. and wants to power either a laptop or the odd drill. A 500watt inverter will do fine. In general, anyone who must have 120v (or 230v) AC on a boat are in a class of richness beyond anything I can dream of. These are people who have already spent 10 times or more just on the vessel in the first place. For a remote location cabin, I am not sure anything more than 12v is needed either. Cooking on solar does not really make sense, burn wood and you are left with the same very low electrical requirements. It may still be worth putting the higher voltage system, most portable fridges will run on 24v (not 48) and it would not be hard to just double up on lights (though more frustrating to trouble shoot :) Having a large AH battery still makes sense, even at 12v and T-class fuse may be needed.... but not thick wires, just appropriate sized wires for the generally low current draw with fusing to match.
I am guessing that my case(s) are not the cases you are talking to (and thats ok) because all of your systems are of the fairly complete run a normal house off solar where 48v makes sense for DIY and higher voltage makes sense with the right install. If I am off grid, I want lower complexity than that and aside from low volt lighting, I will likely have some oil lamps too. If I am off grid because society has died, I want no wifi or bluetooth anything. (So far we seem to have managed to avoid that)
I am working on a solar cart that has 4 of the 12.8v LiFePO4 100ah mini's from Power Queen in parallel because they provide massive surge current. I have used that battery bank to jump start a neighbor's car that had a completely dead battery, which is the reason I picked 12v for that particular build.
LOL, you sold me on 48 volts!
My off grid 12v system was less than 1,200. My Battle Born 100wh heated lithium battery was 700. Victron Dc to Dc charger with solar charger with Ac/Dc controler works awesome and has now for 5yrs!! I have 3ways of charging and running my equipment!! My truck Alternator, 400w Solar panels, Ac Shore power! Alot of us don’t have that kind of room or that kind of startup money!! I like your videos back when you were first getting started! And said after cutting open a Battle Born Battery with Victron components they were the best!! Now it’s all about another Battle!! I guess big money talks! Please get back to us little people!! And remember you’re being’s!!
Will, in Europe Victron is 40% less price than it was in november.
With 900$ you get Multiplus II 5000VA.
holy cow that is cheap!! no way!
I build exclusively 12v systems for my clients , short runs super efficient. We don't ever go into 24v or higher territory until we go over 1500w of solwr panels.
Why do 48V batteries last longer, don't all these batteries basically use the same raw cells? And what does "last longer" mean, calendar age or cycles?
the cells in 48V batteries are typically code compliant and have better cells. you get way more charge cycles with less degradation. just look up the spec sheets. compare a powerpro to some redodo battery or other random chinese 12v
...because my RV is 12v. 3 - 100ah SOK's in parallel. I don't need hundreds of amps, I need the capacity. However, using the 2000w Renogy inverter, it will run the 13500 BTU A/C for about 2.5 hours continuously. 160a for that.
Other reasons:
I don't need to recharge the batteries from dead while on the road; just maintain the charge for the refrigerator. A 20a DC to DC converter is plenty powered off of my 30a pin on my 7-pin plug. The fridge doesn't run continuously. It is a 10 cu ft frost free fridge that draws about 80w 50% duty cycle after it's reached operating temperature and will run for 30 hours off the bank with residual 12v loads.
Try to find a 48 volt converter charger.
We go from campsite to campsite that have electricity. I recharge there. If I do boondock, I have twin Honda EU2000i generators and one of them can recharge the bank in 5 hours using the Parallax 60a LiFePO4 converter charger.
I'm not going to trust a 48v to 12v dc-dc converter from a mass manufactured plant in China. I need 12v reliably.
Has anyone priced adding a 48 volt alternator and cabling to a Chevy Duramax diesel?
So, for me, KISS is 2 voltages; 12v and 120v.
Right. I've been using a $15 solar charge controller, $150 inverter and used AGM batteries for over 10 years. We have very different definitions of "budget". I think you got waaaay too much free stuff and don't really understand how much someone has to work in order to afford a $2,000 battery. Also, your battery recommendation is not safe to use at -40 in a auto or un-heated garage.
You are a good teacher. Always a great wealth of knowledge and able to explain topics well. I stumbled across Dabbsson and picked up their 2400-Watt system and recently added the 3000-Watt expansion battery. I was impressed with the features of the expansion battery with dual (XT-60) ports of 600 watts of solar for each port for a total of 1200 watts. It will also charge from a car's 12-volt system (XT-60) and has an Anderson power pole 25 Amp output port. No AC input or output without the main battery. The battery is 48 Volts.
When sonone says they have a large 12v system I laugh so hard 😂😂
I have been using 12 volts for many years and will continue to do so as many of my appliances are 12 volts. It suits my needs and has done since 1985. I use Trojan RT 104 golf cart batteries and a 2000 watt inverter. In Australia the sun is continuous and free. Maybe different over there but i love my little cabin and my Off grid system.
I use 12V because all my loads are 12V on my boat.
I love my Li time batteries and Renology charge controller for ultra portable use. I can hook up one or two of the 100ah batteries with a cheap 400w Walmart inverter and have all the power I need for charging phones/laptop while camping,and it doesn't take up much room in my truck. And when I am home, I can put the li time batteries in series to augment my bigger systems if needed. It's a very versatile way to go. For my medium sized systems I run 24v, which again offers some versatility in being able to swap or agment with different batteries in a pinch, and run lights and appliances directly off the batteries instead of having conversion losses. Anything above 3000w though is 48v all the way.
Everybody use 12v in boats
And RVs.
That's on small boats
You have convinced me to look into a 48v system. My 12v system is simply used for power outages for lights and keep the modem and computer working but I am very intrigued on how much more I can get out of a 48v system. Thank you Will. I really like your videos. Very detailed for us no nothing beginners LOL
Why 12 volts? Camping.
I don’t think you watched the video. He discusses even small systems
@@bch644 Yes I watched the video. Most products where I'm from are 12 volt. Hence most people use 12 volt.
Even Tesla said it for their cyber truck: “finding 48v components was a nightmare.” I wouldn’t doubt that they had to fund smaller companies to make 48v speakers, switches, and mechanical motors for their applications. I know there exists 48v component now for everything but it is still not as common. Hopefully soon. I assume 12v was the go to DC component approach for decades because of the low voltage use in simpler times. Now that we want to wire everything and we are in the digital age 48v makes all the sense.
Mate its 2024....
@@SIEGEX And still most people I know who camp use 12v. Did you have a point?
For me I am full-time in my rv with access to full 30a shore power. I am looking to reduce consumption an have been looking into a 12v system purely to run the 12v service in my rv. No inverters, just purely 12v.
I did an experiment recently and by shutting off my converter and running off battery only, I installed a shunt and was just trying to measure actual consumption / output purely from the battery.
For the duration of the test period, I averaged 1.1 kwh / day from the battery vs an average of 2.6 kwh / day when running the 12v off the converter.
So I'm looking at moving ahead with 200ah lithium battery, that's double daily average requirement, a 400 or 600 watt array to keep it charged, with an AC / DC lithium charger as backup to the solar but open to recommendations for this system.
In this video you keep trashing 12v systems and you repeatedly ask why would anyone build a 12 v system. I built a 12v system in my van with 2 battleborns an epever tracer bn 40 and 700 watts of solar because of your recommendations. Now your trashing your own recommendations? Just sayin.
Yeah
Technology advances quickly brother....
In a mini van with wet towels and bathing suits, I don’t want to tip toe around shocking myself with a higher voltage system. Will, can I talk about moisture safety, boxes, housing, 460 epoch and inverter big enough to run full size casori air fryer
I'm glad I'm not kicking myself right now as I've only got a little system. But yes I think next time you are truly correct.
12V is better cause the equipment is 12V.
Im have 12 volt that I built 2 years ago. Since then 24 and 48 technology has really blossomed. My wallet unfortunately has not😮. So the next system I build will be 48 volt. Thanks for all your advice and educational content. And especially your honesty, and integrity.
I am not seeing where the added cost is coming from on 12V. When I look at the Victron 12V gear vs the 48V gear, prices are nearly the same. When I look at 12V batteries vs. 48V batters (same ah rating), cost is nearly the same and 48V seems a tad more and fewer options. The only cost difference I'm finding is in the cable themselves. However, if you are not stringing a lot of cabling from the back of an RV to the front, and only dealing with cabling in 1 compartment, that difference is negligible. I could see the cost savings in a stationary, home array, but for RV applications, there doesn't appear to be any significant cost savings either way. So what am I missing?
I'm an old telecomm guy so, yeah, I'm very familiar with 48V stationary systems. I'm now building out my dream camper van and now you have me intrigued about doing a 48V mobile system...
Thank you Will you are a great source of information. That said I think a lot of folks want to avoid higher volts for safety reasons. It makes me wonder why 36v all-in-one systems aren't readily available.
I have a 12v system with 4 100amp Battleborns (per your recommendation, and that's why I have a 12v system 😅 ok I think it's been 8 years full time now) connected with the new Sterling Power DC to DC BB1270 delivering 60 to 61 Amps with 2 Bouge RV Yuma 200s giving 431 watts on the best day.
The DC to DC changing is crucial for our use. Sterling nailed it with this unit. Went through 6 Sterling charges a redarc back to Sterling with different configurations back when Adam worked there. The Sterling chargers in the red metal cases are absolutely amazing.
Almost a whole year and not a problem. Now I guess 48v, but the Battleborns are still cranking away.
Hard to swallow the cost of a 48v altinator and installation and the 48v Sterling charger longer serpentine belts on a Mercedes Sprinter.